Re: [tw5] Better indexes through semantic modeling

[Mohammad Rahmani]

Hi Soren, Thank you for clarification!
For summary:
I have seen books, especially textbooks which have a paragraph (usually in
a colored box or with slightly different font) in the first page of each
chapter explaining what is that chapter, and what we learn in that chapter!

So, I thought the same for tiddler! but this is meaningful if we have a
long text in that chapter!

By the way, having fields for summary has its own pros and cons!

Thank you

Best wishes
Mohammad


On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 5:15 PM Soren Bjornstad 
wrote:

> On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 3:08:36 AM UTC-5 Mohammad wrote:
>
>>  What do you think if we use a small section in a tiddler to store
>> tiddler summary or description in the text field (tiddler body)?
>>
>
> I guess I have too much of a programmer mind to like manually yanking
> things out of somewhere instead of just putting it in a separate field. But
> it's great to have the option.
>
>
>> 3. no need to duplicate text
>>
>
> Maybe I'm being dense, but how would this help us avoid duplicating text?
> Couldn't we just as easily transclude the separate field into the text
> field if the summary sentence made sense as part of that text? I do that
> all the time.
>
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Re: [tw5] Better indexes through semantic modeling

[Soren Bjornstad]

On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 3:08:36 AM UTC-5 Mohammad wrote:

>  What do you think if we use a small section in a tiddler to store tiddler 
> summary or description in the text field (tiddler body)?
>

I guess I have too much of a programmer mind to like manually yanking 
things out of somewhere instead of just putting it in a separate field. But 
it's great to have the option.
 

> 3. no need to duplicate text
>

Maybe I'm being dense, but how would this help us avoid duplicating text? 
Couldn't we just as easily transclude the separate field into the text 
field if the summary sentence made sense as part of that text? I do that 
all the time.

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Re: [tw5] Better indexes through semantic modeling

[Soren Bjornstad]

On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 6:39:04 AM UTC-5 Mohammad wrote:

> Soren
> Please check the filters in given examples, there are some other cases of 
> imbalanced square brackets!
>

Thanks, I found two (the $list one you quoted in another post and one other 
one) and these will be fixed when I rebuild the site later today. To be 
clear, these are intended to give a rough idea of how the system would 
work, not be fully functional examples, so that's why I obviously haven't 
tested them. :)

>
>1. Why is there not anything about tags? Entries replicate tags in 
>Tiddlywiki (but not necessarily)
>
> You certainly could use tags to implement entries, but I think links are 
easier to type and provide more context about why we're linking to the 
entry, which is part of the benefit of this system. Plus there could be 
thousands of entries in a large document, and nobody likes having thousands 
of tags in one TiddlyWiki.

Other options would be totally feasible, though! But the post isn't really 
about TiddlyWiki, and it was already 6,000 words, so I didn't think it was 
a good place to get into this kind of implementation detail.

>
>1. Some concepts with given scripts are confusing like Nearby lists
>
> Example
>
> We can similarly replicate Tabularium’s Nearby list on loci. On the locus 
> view template, we simply list all of the index entries that link to the 
> current locus:
>
> <>
>
>
>
> So this means we have a view template for locus, means command is only 
> works with tiddler tagged Locus
> Then [all[current]backlinks[]tag[Entry]] will list all entries (e.g tag 
> with Entry refer (has link) to current Locus!
> This means, an Entry shall have a link to a Locus?! Means in a tag tiddler 
> we refer to a Locus tiddler! This is confusing!
>

Yep, this example is wrong – it was supposed to say links[]. I will correct 
that as well.
 

> By the way, I enjoyed your writeup and I think it needs some working 
> example to be better understood!
>

I hope this will be a preview for a working system later!

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Re: [tw5] Better indexes through semantic modeling

[Mohammad Rahmani]

Soren
Please check the filters in given examples, there are some other cases of
imbalanced square brackets!


Questions

   1. Why is there not anything about tags? Entries replicate tags in
   Tiddlywiki (but not necessarily)
   2. Some concepts with given scripts are confusing like Nearby lists

Example

We can similarly replicate Tabularium’s Nearby list on loci. On the locus
view template, we simply list all of the index entries that link to the
current locus:

<>



So this means we have a view template for locus, means command is only
works with tiddler tagged Locus
Then [all[current]backlinks[]tag[Entry]] will list all entries (e.g tag
with Entry refer (has link) to current Locus!
This means, an Entry shall have a link to a Locus?! Means in a tag tiddler
we refer to a Locus tiddler! This is confusing!


By the way, I enjoyed your writeup and I think it needs some working
example to be better understood!



Best wishes
Mohammad


On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 5:47 AM Soren Bjornstad 
wrote:

> Some of you all might be interested in this new post on my blog:
>
>
> https://controlaltbackspace.org/notes/better-indexes-through-semantic-modeling/
>
> It's a proposal for a system for indexing large documents based on a
> hypertext graph, including a discussion of a possible TiddlyWiki prototype.
> Warning: 6,000+ words.
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [tw5] Better indexes through semantic modeling

[Mohammad Rahmani]

Some minor comments

1. error in filter


<$list filter="[tag[Locus]sortan[]*]*">
<$link/> (difficulty level: {{!!difficulty}}) – {{!!text}}





Best wishes
Mohammad


On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 5:47 AM Soren Bjornstad 
wrote:

> Some of you all might be interested in this new post on my blog:
>
>
> https://controlaltbackspace.org/notes/better-indexes-through-semantic-modeling/
>
> It's a proposal for a system for indexing large documents based on a
> hypertext graph, including a discussion of a possible TiddlyWiki prototype.
> Warning: 6,000+ words.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "TiddlyWiki" group.
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [tw5] Better indexes through semantic modeling

[Mohammad Rahmani]

Soren,
 What do you think if we use a small section in a tiddler to store tiddler
summary or description in the text field (tiddler body)?

Pros:
1. we can find it using standard search
2. no need to create extra field
3. no need to duplicate text

Cons:
1. need a script to extract description/summary (note the tool is
available see, Tobias Beers, kookma, Thomas Elmiger, ...)



Best wishes
Mohammad


On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 5:47 AM Soren Bjornstad 
wrote:

> Some of you all might be interested in this new post on my blog:
>
>
> https://controlaltbackspace.org/notes/better-indexes-through-semantic-modeling/
>
> It's a proposal for a system for indexing large documents based on a
> hypertext graph, including a discussion of a possible TiddlyWiki prototype.
> Warning: 6,000+ words.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "TiddlyWiki" group.
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [tw5] Better indexes through semantic modeling

[Mohammad Rahmani]

Hi Soren,
Very interesting! Specially the Vision part which gives solutions using
Tiddlywiki.

Best wishes
Mohammad


On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 5:47 AM Soren Bjornstad 
wrote:

> Some of you all might be interested in this new post on my blog:
>
>
> https://controlaltbackspace.org/notes/better-indexes-through-semantic-modeling/
>
> It's a proposal for a system for indexing large documents based on a
> hypertext graph, including a discussion of a possible TiddlyWiki prototype.
> Warning: 6,000+ words.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "TiddlyWiki" group.
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> 
> .
>

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[tw5] Better indexes through semantic modeling

[Soren Bjornstad]

Some of you all might be interested in this new post on my blog:

https://controlaltbackspace.org/notes/better-indexes-through-semantic-modeling/

It's a proposal for a system for indexing large documents based on a 
hypertext graph, including a discussion of a possible TiddlyWiki prototype. 
Warning: 6,000+ words.

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