[tw5] Re: Better interoperability when writing math (LaTeX)

[Rahul Kashyap]

Dear TW users,

Has there been any improvement over this or, any suggestions for workaround 
for the time being. 

I would like to second the @Szabolcs' thoughts and request. I like 
tiddlywiki a lot and its emphasis on connectivity of different ideas. With 
recent addition of bibtex file parser and excellent efforts by Mohammad in 
developing a bibtex parser and reference manager 
 ( and earlier Shiraz plugin 
), TW is going to become one of the 
favorite tool for anyone seriously researching into anything. 

However, just like @Szabolcs, I feel the need to include easy-to-write and 
larger inclusion of latex functions. I noticed a very hopeful plugin in 
this direction -- https://github.com/anstosa/tw5-markdown . Here a markdown 
commands will be given preference over tiddlywiki commands (TW commands are 
fallback) if the Type field of any tiddler has the value "text/x-markdown" 
which means that something like that could be done with latex (perhaps by 
adding the latex engine in the back). One can still use normal tiddlers in 
the same tiddlywiki for multiple purpose for which we like TW. 

In another discussion I have posted a sample course material that I have 
prepared in TW and has gotten at least a few god response 
-- https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/RVaAXwN3bQ8/m/7PClhZLGDAAJ  

Best,
Rahul
On Wednesday, September 26, 2018 at 1:40:36 PM UTC-4 szho...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Indeed, there is a compromise here, but I would call it a minor one.
>
> The systems I mentioned (including LaTeX itself) allow including a dollar 
> sign using \$, which is much shorter and simpler than $\dollar$.
>
> While I admit that the following is a guess, I'd expect most people who 
> need advanced math don't need $ signs in the same TiddlyWiki (or don't need 
> to type them nearly as often as math).
>
> Let me emphasize something from my original post once again: Sadly, most 
> people who need this can't implement it, and most who can don't need it. 
> With open source projects, unfortunately that often means that the feature 
> just doesn't get implemented.  Or if it does, it might be in an 
> unmaintained unofficial patch that one can't count on in the long term.
>
> This is why I am asking here, hoping that TW will gain this as an official 
> feature that is easy to set up and will work even years from now.
>
>
> On Wednesday, 26 September 2018 10:13:55 UTC+2, AndrewMc wrote:
>>
>> A small thing to note is that some people will use $ for their currency 
>> symbol. If you make single-$ a delimiter, then writing about money is made 
>> more difficult.
>> I have this issue in a TWc that contains a lot of mathematical notation. 
>> I ended up having to define "\dollar" as a dollar sign, $, so that I could 
>> write a single dollar sign using Latex as "$\dollar$".
>>
>> Cheers
>> Andrew Mc
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 26, 2018 at 1:27:54 AM UTC+12, Szabolcs Horvát 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> I use TiddlyWiki with the KaTeX plugin.  Unfortunately, the writing 
>>> experience is not as good as with some other tools, and the copy/paste 
>>> interoperability is bad.
>>>
>>> It would be very useful to have the following features:
>>>
>>>  - Single-$ delimiters for inline math. Keep $$ for display math only.
>>>  - Make math work in MarkDown tiddlers.
>>>
>>> Advantages:
>>>
>>> 1. Writing without breaking one's flow. $$ is a pain to type if it has 
>>> to be typed multiple times in each sentence. Example:
>>>
>>> "There are no three integers $$a$$, $$b$$ and $$c$$ so that $$a^n + b^n 
>>> = c^n$$ for any integer $$n$$ greater than 2."
>>>
>>> Such sentences, with multiple tiny bits of math, are common when writing 
>>> mathematical prose. Those who only use LaTeX occasionally may not 
>>> immediately see it, but single-$ is a significant improvement over 
>>> double-$$ when writing serious math.  Unfortunately, most people who 
>>> implement tools have a programming background and only use math 
>>> occasionally. Most people who write a lot of math don't have the expertise 
>>> to implement and maintain such tools.
>>>
>>> 2. Easy copy-pasting between different systems.
>>>
>>> I would like to be able to directly paste text from tiddlers to a LaTeX 
>>> document, or to Markdown documents. Mathematical text will have little 
>>> formatting (such as bold or italic), but a lot of LaTeX-snippets.  If the 
>>> math delimiters matched normal LaTeX, pasting would be possible with 
>>> minimal modifications. 
>>>
>>> Tools that people who work with math actually use have more-or-less 
>>> standardized on a LaTeX-compatible notation in Markdown documents. Consider 
>>> Math.StackExchange, MathOverflow, Jupyter Notebooks, Markdown-Preview-Plus 
>>> plugin for Atom, Sage Math, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>> Can these features please be considered?  They would make TiddlyWiki a 
>>> much more viable tool for researchers and mathematicians. I think it is 

[tw5] Re: Better interoperability when writing math (LaTeX)

[Szabolcs Horvát]

Indeed, there is a compromise here, but I would call it a minor one.

The systems I mentioned (including LaTeX itself) allow including a dollar 
sign using \$, which is much shorter and simpler than $\dollar$.

While I admit that the following is a guess, I'd expect most people who 
need advanced math don't need $ signs in the same TiddlyWiki (or don't need 
to type them nearly as often as math).

Let me emphasize something from my original post once again: Sadly, most 
people who need this can't implement it, and most who can don't need it. 
With open source projects, unfortunately that often means that the feature 
just doesn't get implemented.  Or if it does, it might be in an 
unmaintained unofficial patch that one can't count on in the long term.

This is why I am asking here, hoping that TW will gain this as an official 
feature that is easy to set up and will work even years from now.

On Wednesday, 26 September 2018 10:13:55 UTC+2, AndrewMc wrote:
>
> A small thing to note is that some people will use $ for their currency 
> symbol. If you make single-$ a delimiter, then writing about money is made 
> more difficult.
> I have this issue in a TWc that contains a lot of mathematical notation. I 
> ended up having to define "\dollar" as a dollar sign, $, so that I could 
> write a single dollar sign using Latex as "$\dollar$".
>
> Cheers
> Andrew Mc
>
> On Wednesday, September 26, 2018 at 1:27:54 AM UTC+12, Szabolcs Horvát 
> wrote:
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I use TiddlyWiki with the KaTeX plugin.  Unfortunately, the writing 
>> experience is not as good as with some other tools, and the copy/paste 
>> interoperability is bad.
>>
>> It would be very useful to have the following features:
>>
>>  - Single-$ delimiters for inline math. Keep $$ for display math only.
>>  - Make math work in MarkDown tiddlers.
>>
>> Advantages:
>>
>> 1. Writing without breaking one's flow. $$ is a pain to type if it has to 
>> be typed multiple times in each sentence. Example:
>>
>> "There are no three integers $$a$$, $$b$$ and $$c$$ so that $$a^n + b^n = 
>> c^n$$ for any integer $$n$$ greater than 2."
>>
>> Such sentences, with multiple tiny bits of math, are common when writing 
>> mathematical prose. Those who only use LaTeX occasionally may not 
>> immediately see it, but single-$ is a significant improvement over 
>> double-$$ when writing serious math.  Unfortunately, most people who 
>> implement tools have a programming background and only use math 
>> occasionally. Most people who write a lot of math don't have the expertise 
>> to implement and maintain such tools.
>>
>> 2. Easy copy-pasting between different systems.
>>
>> I would like to be able to directly paste text from tiddlers to a LaTeX 
>> document, or to Markdown documents. Mathematical text will have little 
>> formatting (such as bold or italic), but a lot of LaTeX-snippets.  If the 
>> math delimiters matched normal LaTeX, pasting would be possible with 
>> minimal modifications. 
>>
>> Tools that people who work with math actually use have more-or-less 
>> standardized on a LaTeX-compatible notation in Markdown documents. Consider 
>> Math.StackExchange, MathOverflow, Jupyter Notebooks, Markdown-Preview-Plus 
>> plugin for Atom, Sage Math, etc.
>>
>>
>> Can these features please be considered?  They would make TiddlyWiki a 
>> much more viable tool for researchers and mathematicians. I think it is a 
>> great way to plan a paper, but I would like to be able to type faster 
>> (without breaking by flow due to all the $$-delimiters) and I would like to 
>> be able to paste from the tiddlers to the final paper, as well as from 
>> other notes into tiddlers, without having to make significant modifications 
>> every time.
>>
>> Szabolcs
>>
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Better interoperability when writing math (LaTeX)

[AndrewMc]

A small thing to note is that some people will use $ for their currency 
symbol. If you make single-$ a delimiter, then writing about money is made 
more difficult.
I have this issue in a TWc that contains a lot of mathematical notation. I 
ended up having to define "\dollar" as a dollar sign, $, so that I could 
write a single dollar sign using Latex as "$\dollar$".

Cheers
Andrew Mc

On Wednesday, September 26, 2018 at 1:27:54 AM UTC+12, Szabolcs Horvát 
wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I use TiddlyWiki with the KaTeX plugin.  Unfortunately, the writing 
> experience is not as good as with some other tools, and the copy/paste 
> interoperability is bad.
>
> It would be very useful to have the following features:
>
>  - Single-$ delimiters for inline math. Keep $$ for display math only.
>  - Make math work in MarkDown tiddlers.
>
> Advantages:
>
> 1. Writing without breaking one's flow. $$ is a pain to type if it has to 
> be typed multiple times in each sentence. Example:
>
> "There are no three integers $$a$$, $$b$$ and $$c$$ so that $$a^n + b^n = 
> c^n$$ for any integer $$n$$ greater than 2."
>
> Such sentences, with multiple tiny bits of math, are common when writing 
> mathematical prose. Those who only use LaTeX occasionally may not 
> immediately see it, but single-$ is a significant improvement over 
> double-$$ when writing serious math.  Unfortunately, most people who 
> implement tools have a programming background and only use math 
> occasionally. Most people who write a lot of math don't have the expertise 
> to implement and maintain such tools.
>
> 2. Easy copy-pasting between different systems.
>
> I would like to be able to directly paste text from tiddlers to a LaTeX 
> document, or to Markdown documents. Mathematical text will have little 
> formatting (such as bold or italic), but a lot of LaTeX-snippets.  If the 
> math delimiters matched normal LaTeX, pasting would be possible with 
> minimal modifications. 
>
> Tools that people who work with math actually use have more-or-less 
> standardized on a LaTeX-compatible notation in Markdown documents. Consider 
> Math.StackExchange, MathOverflow, Jupyter Notebooks, Markdown-Preview-Plus 
> plugin for Atom, Sage Math, etc.
>
>
> Can these features please be considered?  They would make TiddlyWiki a 
> much more viable tool for researchers and mathematicians. I think it is a 
> great way to plan a paper, but I would like to be able to type faster 
> (without breaking by flow due to all the $$-delimiters) and I would like to 
> be able to paste from the tiddlers to the final paper, as well as from 
> other notes into tiddlers, without having to make significant modifications 
> every time.
>
> Szabolcs
>
>
>

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