[tw5] Re: Internet and freedom of communicating with fellow human beings

[passingby]

> When we establish the ability for every tiddlywiki to open a communication 
> channel it will help.
>
>
>  
Tony,
Are there any ideas out there about how this can be done technologically 
wise? 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/20aa13a1-8434-453e-b8ab-2d3bab564e37%40googlegroups.com.

[tw5] Re: Internet and freedom of communicating with fellow human beings

[TonyM]

Folks.

I care deeply about these issues.

But the first point I would make is we should ensure there are a Divercity of 
communication channels known to most if not all enthusiasts making it hard for 
one or more channels closing to stop communication. When we establish the 
ability for every tiddlywiki to open a communication channel it will help.

Regards
Tony

Regards
Tony

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/99e280c6-1ead-44ca-8fa2-750f9824b3fd%40googlegroups.com.

[tw5] Re: Internet and freedom of communicating with fellow human beings

[Mat]

For anyone interested, here  
are some articles by Dr Ben Goertzel. The latest one ("What's so disturbing 
about Microsofts OpenAI investment") touches these matters. Dr Goertzel is 
the chief scientist behind SingularityNet, i.e the brain of the robot 
Sophia that you've all seen, but with the actual aim to create an AGI 
(Artificial General Intelligence) that is decentralized and democratized 
instead of controlled by some company or state. Here 
 is an interview with Dr. Goertzel from 
just the other day (the link skips the introductory scare mongering that is 
mandatory when talking about AI but which does not represent the interview 
at all). BTW, do not dismiss him as some hippie who doesn't know what he's 
talking about. Hippie perhaps but he is one of the foremost experts on AI 
in the world.

...

HansWobbe wrote

> In Canada, Taxes are now larger than the costs of living.  This is an 
> unstable situation that will have consequences.


Wanna come to Sweden? The average worker pays 53% in tax. Used to be even 
much more.


<:-)

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/1af454c3-9280-41dc-893f-16ab624efa4d%40googlegroups.com.

[tw5] Re: Internet and freedom of communicating with fellow human beings

[HansWobbe]

I absolutely agree that mutiNational corps are a bigger problem that 
sovereign governments.  One of the compelling arguments is the "too big to 
fail" argument put forward to justify the bailouts of the Banks from the 
2008 financial crises.  

That "too big to..." argument is now evidently extended to include:

* "Too Big To Manage" ( with only celebrity executives )
* "Too Big To Punish" ( Facebook's share price went up when the markets 
realized that a $5billion fine was a trivial cost of doing business )
* "Too Big To Control" (by any country worried about job losses to another 
or via Trade Wars)
* etc.

Things will change simply because elected representaives will not restrict 
the growth in taxation.  In Canada, Taxes are now larger than the costs of 
living.  This is an unstable situation that will have consequences.

Open communication technologies that counter government "spin" are 
essential to efficient progress.

~Hans



> IMO. The large corporations on the internet are far too big for a healthy 
> future.
>
> I actually think government is currently the lesser evil.
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/521bc639-c4f4-4152-b8e6-762805e4abdb%40googlegroups.com.

[tw5] Re: Internet and freedom of communicating with fellow human beings

[passingby]

This is a bit of rant here.

>From a layman's point of view, I feel the talk and ideas of software and 
concept of sharing and openness has changed a lot. It seems internet is no 
more the internet which it was envisioned to be.

A long time ago, I used to think if something was open source, it was 
trustworthy, free in terms of money, and free in terms of freedom, that 
nobody controlled it. I used to think that a software which was open source 
was something which stood in defiance against companies whose main motive 
was money and dominance. In this spirit I was a fan of firefox for a long 
time. Then Google Chrome came along and I became its fan. Later on I heard 
there are new smarter phones with touch screen and they are based on 
Android which is open source. I readily adopted it, and my next phone after 
a Nokia symbian phone was Samsung s4. 

Well fast forward to current times, I now realize that open source or not, 
the products are tightly controlled by companies. Companies control what 
update is rolled out, when it is rolled, and even in which region it is 
rolled out. I had no idea that Google could choose whether or not to allow 
a company to use its version of Android. I had no idea that even if a 
software was open source, it was still a controllable creature. Fifteen 
years ago when ever I came across the word ecosystem I thought it was just 
another word used by experts to sound like experts. 

I have to agree that there may be times where blocking of communication may 
be warranted. But I have seen its instances of misuse. I know a few 
instances of this happening in India in past couple of years. There was a 
police crackdown in Haryana state not long ago and the government totally 
cut off social media apps for several days, because they wanted to shut 
down live or almost live news sharing. And nobody spoke out. Nothing 
happened. They did their thing and life went on. Later I got to know that 
it was happening elsewhere too.

If a machine runs on electricity, no matter how smart that machine may be, 
all that needs to be done to defeat that machine is to cut off electricity. 
Governments control ISPs. A simple court order, brought about by the power 
that be, can make them fall in line.

Understandably, if internet connection is shut down, and that too with 
legal tools, there is nothing common person can do. But there should be 
tools to communicate and share when there is at least some internet going 
on. That is something which deserves support.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/736f0322-3776-44dc-b591-b7b38f3b85eb%40googlegroups.com.

[tw5] Re: Internet and freedom of communicating with fellow human beings

[@TiddlyTweeter]

passingby, good to see your post!

It was a serious mistake that governments were stupidly slow when the net 
evolved. So far behind it is now a joke. That went so far that "common 
cause" has become reduced to "consumer trends".

The net--Google et al--is largely organised by corporations at the moment 
focused on markets.

It is a double whammy in that governments pressure those corps at points 
to, for instance, block Iranians. Giving the illusion government run things 
on the net. They don't.

The day to day logic is corporate, based in the dominant economic model, 
hugely successful economically. THAT is dangerous.

Its a weird situation to say the least.

IMO. The large corporations on the internet are far too big for a healthy 
future.

I actually think government is currently the lesser evil.

Thoughts
TT

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/6002661b-a281-4810-a6d8-188b7e74655b%40googlegroups.com.

[tw5] Re: Internet and freedom of communicating with fellow human beings

[Jed Carty]

We are making reasonable progress with the inter-wiki federation so far. I 
am working on a project at the same time that uses hyperswarm (it is 
inspired by the BitTorrent DHT but it is made to make communication easier 
in the sense of finding specific peers instead of just some peers). It will 
be much harder to squish than most existing methods.

That doesn't mean it will be impossible, in order for it to not be possible 
we need to get a working large scale mesh in place (speaking of other 
projects I am working on)

But yeah, it is always going to be a race to see if people can find new 
ways to communicate before the existing ones are put under the control of 
some type of authority.

If it makes you feel better, most of the inspired engineers that I know are 
strongly anti-authoritarian (hail eris anyone?)

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/0b619723-ab21-48bc-813b-4281541709c0%40googlegroups.com.

[tw5] Re: Internet and freedom of communicating with fellow human beings

[Mohammad]

I recommend to watch the movie by Oliver Stone: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowden_(film)
The Snowden movie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowden_(film)
You will learn much better about what governments interpret the word 
freedom!

--Mohammad 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/babcbe42-d5bc-45ef-ac5a-e3c8bdb3a7a5%40googlegroups.com.

[tw5] Re: Internet and freedom of communicating with fellow human beings

[Mat]

(I personally welcome off-topic discussions if they are few and also have 
*some* relevance like this one does even if just barely... but you should 
perhaps prefix the topic title with [off topic] or similar)

I think TW is very much created in the "freedom" spirit. Unfortunately it's 
most important project in this direction is still not quite here even if it 
is close (federation). There was some attention on the Beaker Browser 
 project a few years ago, with some vague 
connections to TW. If I understand the project ambitions right, it makes 
every computer be a server.

Your post talks about the political question at large though and I can only 
agree with your hinted concern. If Google groups was blocked, which is 
totally likely in some places, and possibly even the case in some other, 
then... yeah, what can we do? We're all citizens somewhere. I guess we'd do 
what they do in Hong Kong and Moscow just now? Or, better yet, prevent 
governments that oppose free speech from taking root to begin with, by 
educating people about how different forms of government work and not 
permit such forces to take charge. The most concrete action I can think of 
is to use your voting rights while the government is still not corrupt - 
and to shout out whenever there are tendencies in the wrong direction. 
Freedom is not for free.

<:-)

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/3280a3a4-a6d7-41c6-bc67-b3bf1ad1c1d9%40googlegroups.com.