[tw5] Re: Page media and Tiddlers

[@TiddlyTweeter]

A big issue is getting precise practical information on steps to wanted 
print outcomes. The issue is that you have several levels of potential 
complexity (base HTML/CSS combo; browser interpolation; printer 
parameters). The browser side is much better than it was on 
cross-compliance, but its not perfect. AND the number of tech people 
needing precision in printing is actually far lower than struggling 
end-users, like, for instance, academics who often do. So explicit info 
that is practical is in fairly short supply.

IMO you have to get one step sorted at a time. BTW, personally I use 
PRINTER/PDF to always evaluate. I do not trust the screen on this, apart 
from PDF.

Best wishes
TT

On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 05:54:58 UTC+2, TonyM wrote:
>
> Folks
>
> I continue on this journey and have a basic approach established. Which I 
> will publish sooner of later
>
>
>- However there is reference to the *CSS box model *and specifically 
>the *@page *model.
>- If I knew how to leverage this I would be able to build pages with a 
>higher level of sophistication including accessing page numbers and more.
>- See this w3C Document 
> Especially 
>Table 1 Page-Margin Box Definitions
>
>
> Can anyone give me even the simplex clue how you use this *CSS box model *and 
> specifically the *@page *model.
>
> I am slow close to being able to develop a fantastic page layout and 
> printing tool, if anyone can give me a nudge?
>
> Regards
> Tony
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Page media and Tiddlers

[TonyM]

Mat

Google schmoogle. Its not helping so much. Also tiddlywiki is a html page its 
self so some css effects the whole page so I can't use the examples as I want 
to operate on the tiddler level. Eg with a html div.

Regards
Tony

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[tw5] Re: Page media and Tiddlers

[Mat]

Tony
 

> Can anyone give me even the simplex clue how you use this *CSS box model *and 
> specifically the *@page *model.
>

Google? It doesn't sound TW specific at all, or do I misunderstand your 
problem?

<:-)

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[tw5] Re: Page media and Tiddlers

[TonyM]

Folks

I continue on this journey and have a basic approach established. Which I 
will publish sooner of later


   - However there is reference to the *CSS box model *and specifically the 
*@page 
   *model.
   - If I knew how to leverage this I would be able to build pages with a 
   higher level of sophistication including accessing page numbers and more.
   - See this w3C Document 
    Especially Table 
   1 Page-Margin Box Definitions


Can anyone give me even the simplex clue how you use this *CSS box model *and 
specifically the *@page *model.

I am slow close to being able to develop a fantastic page layout and 
printing tool, if anyone can give me a nudge?

Regards
Tony

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[tw5] Re: Page media and Tiddlers

[Michael Wiktowy]

>
> works better in Firefox than Chrome though...
>

Yes ... ironically, in Chrome, you can force things to print nicely when 
the CSS is uncooperative but all those manual interventions get in the way 
when you are trying to control printing from the page media CSS. Firefox 
seems to listen to more print CSS tweaking ... for better or worse.

/Mike

On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 11:06:06 AM UTC-3, Sycom wrote:
>
> Hi Tony,
>
> page media is not so well implemented in browsers i'm affraid.
>
> I have a project with printing capabilities and have struggled with this. 
> My workaround is using a footer tiddler
> * the footer tiddler has display:none; for @screen view
> * i'm using display: table-footer-group; for @print section
>
> Might inspire you : 
> https://know-rmandie.frama.io/TiddlyPAC/tiddlyPAC-Normandie.html#%24%3A%2Fpac%2Fstyles.css:%24%3A%2Fpac%2Fstyles.css%20styles_de_tiddlyPAC%20%5B%5BPorter%20%C3%A0%20Connaissance%5D%5D
>
> works better in Firefox than Chrome though...
>
> cheers,
>
> Sylvain
> @sycom
>
> Le dimanche 11 août 2019 06:03:21 UTC+2, TonyM a écrit :
>>
>> In relation to View and Print tiddlers with page handling - help 
>> requested 
>> 
>>
>> I am looking at using the @page media in css. However being a css 
>> ignorant I am trying to work out how to use it
>>
>> Specifically I want it to relate to content inside a tiddler. However 
>> most of the code out there relates to a whole html page.
>>
>> Perhaps I need to wrap the text in a tiddler with a div that somehow 
>> specifies it is both display and print media, and to use the print css when 
>> printing.
>>
>> I am particularly interested in defining a tiddler that uses the 
>> https://www.w3.org/TR/css-page-3/#margin-boxes margin boxes documented 
>> here, when printing but it would be nice to see the content on screen as 
>> well, a Kind of wisywig. 
>>
>> I am building a view template that applies a style sheet that defines the 
>> @print media statement but I am hoping to transclude fields on the current 
>> tidder that contain either the content only or also some css to each 
>> "element", so I have a field called element-name and element-name-css in 
>> a tiddler.
>>
>> @top-left-corner 
>> @top-left 
>> @top-center
>> @top-right 
>> @top-right-corner 
>> @bottom-left-corner 
>> @bottom-left 
>> @bottom-center 
>> @bottom-right 
>> @bottom-right-corner
>> @left-top
>> @left-middle
>> @left-bottom
>> @right-top
>> @right-middle
>> @right-bottom
>>
>> After defining the whole page I want the body of the tiddler transcluded 
>> in the body of the page.
>>
>> I am really at a loss how to do this. Especially when it comes to 
>> referring only to the current tiddler and not accidently the whole tiddlet 
>> wiki. To print I open the tiddler in new window and print from there.
>>
>> Once this is working I will also transclude a field defining what html 
>> elements to use to throw a page break eg h1
>>
>> Thanks in Advance
>> Tony
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Page media and Tiddlers

[Sycom]

Hi Tony,

page media is not so well implemented in browsers i'm affraid.

I have a project with printing capabilities and have struggled with this. 
My workaround is using a footer tiddler
* the footer tiddler has display:none; for @screen view
* i'm using display: table-footer-group; for @print section

Might inspire you : 
https://know-rmandie.frama.io/TiddlyPAC/tiddlyPAC-Normandie.html#%24%3A%2Fpac%2Fstyles.css:%24%3A%2Fpac%2Fstyles.css%20styles_de_tiddlyPAC%20%5B%5BPorter%20%C3%A0%20Connaissance%5D%5D

works better in Firefox than Chrome though...

cheers,

Sylvain
@sycom

Le dimanche 11 août 2019 06:03:21 UTC+2, TonyM a écrit :
>
> In relation to View and Print tiddlers with page handling - help requested 
> 
>
> I am looking at using the @page media in css. However being a css ignorant 
> I am trying to work out how to use it
>
> Specifically I want it to relate to content inside a tiddler. However most 
> of the code out there relates to a whole html page.
>
> Perhaps I need to wrap the text in a tiddler with a div that somehow 
> specifies it is both display and print media, and to use the print css when 
> printing.
>
> I am particularly interested in defining a tiddler that uses the 
> https://www.w3.org/TR/css-page-3/#margin-boxes margin boxes documented 
> here, when printing but it would be nice to see the content on screen as 
> well, a Kind of wisywig. 
>
> I am building a view template that applies a style sheet that defines the 
> @print media statement but I am hoping to transclude fields on the current 
> tidder that contain either the content only or also some css to each 
> "element", so I have a field called element-name and element-name-css in 
> a tiddler.
>
> @top-left-corner 
> @top-left 
> @top-center
> @top-right 
> @top-right-corner 
> @bottom-left-corner 
> @bottom-left 
> @bottom-center 
> @bottom-right 
> @bottom-right-corner
> @left-top
> @left-middle
> @left-bottom
> @right-top
> @right-middle
> @right-bottom
>
> After defining the whole page I want the body of the tiddler transcluded 
> in the body of the page.
>
> I am really at a loss how to do this. Especially when it comes to 
> referring only to the current tiddler and not accidently the whole tiddlet 
> wiki. To print I open the tiddler in new window and print from there.
>
> Once this is working I will also transclude a field defining what html 
> elements to use to throw a page break eg h1
>
> Thanks in Advance
> Tony
>
>
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Page media and Tiddlers

[TonyM]

Josiah,

Thanks for your suggestions.

I realise I have a gap in my css knowledge here but ultimately I expect it to 
be both easy and flexible especially to a pdf file since as you suggest it 
provides a kind of standard printer. At the moment it seems I need to learn all 
about it so I can choose only what is needed.

Now I am trying to define the page because I am already confident with causing 
tables in the body to page break as needed and repeating headers.

The css available is all about printing whole of html pages rather than 
treating a tiddler as the page source. Page handling css seems to impact the 
whole wiki and there seems to be some gaps in tiddlywikis print action.

I must keep going.
Tony

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[tw5] Re: Page media and Tiddlers

[@TiddlyTweeter]

For those on email ... I update my last 
post: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/wXhrnhiV8Xg/N3TlGqQGDAAJ

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[tw5] Re: Page media and Tiddlers

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Tony

I think this is a great topic.

I have tried to produce a precise mono-typed print layout for film scripts 
in the past with accurate page breaks.

I looked at the "Prince" specialised CSS based print system that is very 
informative about CSS & print media. You don't actually need to use it. Its 
just informative.
https://www.princexml.com/

I concluded there are two issues ... 
(a) figuring out what you need to "zero-out" in TW; (Telmiger's 
"Bricks" CSS design plugin is good for that)
(b) coping with some variants between browsers (far less now than 
before, though).

But I'm not there yet.

TT

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[tw5] Re: Page media and Tiddlers

[TonyM]

Thanks Michael

On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 2:11:32 PM UTC+10, Michael Wiktowy wrote:
>
> Hi Tony,
>
> I attempted to make a label-maker-type tool that required precise control 
> over margins and positioning of labels for printing. I had some success but 
> in the end, it relied on setting particular (mostly zero) margins at the 
> browser level which made it hard for me to deploy anywhere.
> My conclusions were:
> - Different browsers frustratingly handle print media CSS differently or 
> ignore the settings completely
> - There are a ton of little spots where padding creeps in to mess up your 
> layout. I think that I zeroed most of them in my tool.
>
> Regardless you can drag the Label Tool tag over to an empty tiddlywiki and 
> dig around. I hope that something in the stylesheets there helps.
>
> http://mwiktowy.tiddlyspot.com/#Label%20Tool%20-%20Main%20Menu
>
> /Mike
>
> On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:03:21 AM UTC-3, TonyM wrote:
>>
>> In relation to View and Print tiddlers with page handling - help 
>> requested 
>> 
>>
>> I am looking at using the @page media in css. However being a css 
>> ignorant I am trying to work out how to use it
>>
>> Specifically I want it to relate to content inside a tiddler. However 
>> most of the code out there relates to a whole html page.
>>
>> Perhaps I need to wrap the text in a tiddler with a div that somehow 
>> specifies it is both display and print media, and to use the print css when 
>> printing.
>>
>> I am particularly interested in defining a tiddler that uses the 
>> https://www.w3.org/TR/css-page-3/#margin-boxes margin boxes documented 
>> here, when printing but it would be nice to see the content on screen as 
>> well, a Kind of wisywig. 
>>
>> I am building a view template that applies a style sheet that defines the 
>> @print media statement but I am hoping to transclude fields on the current 
>> tidder that contain either the content only or also some css to each 
>> "element", so I have a field called element-name and element-name-css in 
>> a tiddler.
>>
>> @top-left-corner 
>> @top-left 
>> @top-center
>> @top-right 
>> @top-right-corner 
>> @bottom-left-corner 
>> @bottom-left 
>> @bottom-center 
>> @bottom-right 
>> @bottom-right-corner
>> @left-top
>> @left-middle
>> @left-bottom
>> @right-top
>> @right-middle
>> @right-bottom
>>
>> After defining the whole page I want the body of the tiddler transcluded 
>> in the body of the page.
>>
>> I am really at a loss how to do this. Especially when it comes to 
>> referring only to the current tiddler and not accidently the whole tiddlet 
>> wiki. To print I open the tiddler in new window and print from there.
>>
>> Once this is working I will also transclude a field defining what html 
>> elements to use to throw a page break eg h1
>>
>> Thanks in Advance
>> Tony
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Page media and Tiddlers

[Michael Wiktowy]

Hi Tony,

I attempted to make a label-maker-type tool that required precise control 
over margins and positioning of labels for printing. I had some success but 
in the end, it relied on setting particular (mostly zero) margins at the 
browser level which made it hard for me to deploy anywhere.
My conclusions were:
- Different browsers frustratingly handle print media CSS differently or 
ignore the settings completely
- There are a ton of little spots where padding creeps in to mess up your 
layout. I think that I zeroed most of them in my tool.

Regardless you can drag the Label Tool tag over to an empty tiddlywiki and 
dig around. I hope that something in the stylesheets there helps.

http://mwiktowy.tiddlyspot.com/#Label%20Tool%20-%20Main%20Menu

/Mike

On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:03:21 AM UTC-3, TonyM wrote:
>
> In relation to View and Print tiddlers with page handling - help requested 
> 
>
> I am looking at using the @page media in css. However being a css ignorant 
> I am trying to work out how to use it
>
> Specifically I want it to relate to content inside a tiddler. However most 
> of the code out there relates to a whole html page.
>
> Perhaps I need to wrap the text in a tiddler with a div that somehow 
> specifies it is both display and print media, and to use the print css when 
> printing.
>
> I am particularly interested in defining a tiddler that uses the 
> https://www.w3.org/TR/css-page-3/#margin-boxes margin boxes documented 
> here, when printing but it would be nice to see the content on screen as 
> well, a Kind of wisywig. 
>
> I am building a view template that applies a style sheet that defines the 
> @print media statement but I am hoping to transclude fields on the current 
> tidder that contain either the content only or also some css to each 
> "element", so I have a field called element-name and element-name-css in 
> a tiddler.
>
> @top-left-corner 
> @top-left 
> @top-center
> @top-right 
> @top-right-corner 
> @bottom-left-corner 
> @bottom-left 
> @bottom-center 
> @bottom-right 
> @bottom-right-corner
> @left-top
> @left-middle
> @left-bottom
> @right-top
> @right-middle
> @right-bottom
>
> After defining the whole page I want the body of the tiddler transcluded 
> in the body of the page.
>
> I am really at a loss how to do this. Especially when it comes to 
> referring only to the current tiddler and not accidently the whole tiddlet 
> wiki. To print I open the tiddler in new window and print from there.
>
> Once this is working I will also transclude a field defining what html 
> elements to use to throw a page break eg h1
>
> Thanks in Advance
> Tony
>
>
>
>

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