[tw5] Re: TW Twitter -- Computational Notebooks in TW? ...

[TonyM]

Ste,

I only taught at a vocational college some years ago, part-time. They did not 
pay us for marking let alone developing material. Why they dont is teaching is 
a vocation, the capitalist system without guidence, allways under pays and 
underfunds anything that people are passionate about. They say tgey want the 
best education, health and science but they simply want the cheapest.

Tony

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/349da697-44bc-4962-a8b7-fa21ba42c191%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[tw5] Re: TW Twitter -- Computational Notebooks in TW? ...

[Ste Wilson]

@Tony. 
Agreed. 
Let's build something better? 
But then it often feels like imagination is punished in education... Certainly 
in the uk system.. 'what do you mean your not teaching this way? '

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/619044fc-1da8-4ce9-9c5e-7e566fe3bebc%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[tw5] Re: TW Twitter -- Computational Notebooks in TW? ...

[TonyM]

Cool Links Evan,

Since before personal computers existed I have dreamed of what computers 
could be capable of. In the education and learning space I expected to see 
beautiful representations of complex processes and systems we could play 
with and thus gain a much deeper understanding. Sadly this is very uncommon 
and learning has not made much use of computers to this day. Many examples 
are quite pathetic and not much more than PDF versions :) your examples and 
work seem to me to be finally moving in the direction I expected as a 
somewhat naive 11 year old. So sad we still don't have something an 11 year 
old imagined 30+ years ago.

If someone believes computers have improved the way we learn to a great 
extent, I would like to suggests it is only because they have a lack of 
imagination.

Nice Work
Tony

On Sunday, May 13, 2018 at 4:20:11 AM UTC+10, Evan Balster wrote:
>
> Hello, all —
>
> Regarding what I mean by "computational notebooks" and why I took the time 
> to write a robust math plugin:
>
> I think it's really valuable to be able to interactively model information 
> as part of a note-taking and problem-solving process.  TiddlyWiki was 
> already very good at doing this for qualitative information, so I made 
> effort to round out those capabilities for quantitative information.  My 
> plugin is "spreadsheet-like" because information auto-refreshes like 
> anything else in a TiddlyWiki.  I never actually implemented a spreadsheet 
> UI for it.  Why would I? — tiddlers and fields already work like rows and 
> columns.
>
> I'm a C++ programmer (8 years full-time experience including compiler 
> design, DSP, rendering engines, multithreading), but I don't think 
> imperative languages like C++ or Python are ideal for what I call 
> "computational notetaking".  This is because it takes substantial mental 
> effort to design the execution flow, state management and data structures 
> in an imperative language, and this means breaking away from the topic of 
> the notetaking.  People who use spreadsheets don't think of themselves as 
> programmers because they don't have to do that kind of juggling, but it's 
> possible to design extremely complicated software in that environment.  The 
> key difference is that you can focus on one small element at a time without 
> getting tangled up in the architecture of your program.  Less cognitive 
> load there means more sustained attention toward understanding a problem 
> which may already be straining one's cognitive faculties — and as somebody 
> who gets into that situation often with my research, I think that has the 
> potential to expand my capability to think and solve complex problems.
>
> As much as I've discussed improving TiddlyWiki's scalability, I don't 
> think computational notetaking tools must be useful for designing 
> applications or scalable software.  "Notebook" implies to me that the 
> contents might exist for the sole benefit of the person using it, and that 
> the information is easy to pass around.
>
>
> (For more on the "interactive modeling" I'm talking about, look into 
> explorable 
> explanations .  I've designed many interactive 
> models for my own use with imperative languages, and have prototyped some 
> explorables 
> 
>  
> with my plugin.)
>
>
> On Saturday, 12 May 2018 12:56:52 UTC-5, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> "It pairs the functionality of word processing 
>>  software with both the 
>> shell  and kernel 
>>  of that 
>> notebook's programming language 
>> ."
>>
>> That sounds a lot like TW. TW would need a math plugin to easily get to 
>> the "computational" part. Possibly a platform for students or fieldworkers 
>> collecting data.
>>
>> -- Mark
>>
>> On Saturday, May 12, 2018 at 10:33:53 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>>
>>> If you wondering what a "Computational Notebook" is and what the current 
>>> enthusiasm about them is about, read ...
>>>
>>> 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notebook_interface ... which shows 
>>> the idea is not new, and immediately you can see that TW can be that ...
>>>
>>> 2 - https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-01676633/document ... a very 
>>> good academic text about them.
>>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki.
To view this discussion on the web visit 

[tw5] Re: TW Twitter -- Computational Notebooks in TW? ...

[Evan Balster]

Hello, all —

Regarding what I mean by "computational notebooks" and why I took the time 
to write a robust math plugin:

I think it's really valuable to be able to interactively model information 
as part of a note-taking and problem-solving process.  TiddlyWiki was 
already very good at doing this for qualitative information, so I made 
effort to round out those capabilities for quantitative information.  My 
plugin is "spreadsheet-like" because information auto-refreshes like 
anything else in a TiddlyWiki.  I never actually implemented a spreadsheet 
UI for it.  Why would I? — tiddlers and fields already work like rows and 
columns.

I'm a C++ programmer (8 years full-time experience including compiler 
design, DSP, rendering engines, multithreading), but I don't think 
imperative languages like C++ or Python are ideal for what I call 
"computational notetaking".  This is because it takes substantial mental 
effort to design the execution flow, state management and data structures 
in an imperative language, and this means breaking away from the topic of 
the notetaking.  People who use spreadsheets don't think of themselves as 
programmers because they don't have to do that kind of juggling, but it's 
possible to design extremely complicated software in that environment.  The 
key difference is that you can focus on one small element at a time without 
getting tangled up in the architecture of your program.  Less cognitive 
load there means more sustained attention toward understanding a problem 
which may already be straining one's cognitive faculties — and as somebody 
who gets into that situation often with my research, I think that has the 
potential to expand my capability to think and solve complex problems.

As much as I've discussed improving TiddlyWiki's scalability, I don't think 
computational notetaking tools must be useful for designing applications or 
scalable software.  "Notebook" implies to me that the contents might exist 
for the sole benefit of the person using it, and that the information is 
easy to pass around.


(For more on the "interactive modeling" I'm talking about, look into explorable 
explanations .  I've designed many interactive models 
for my own use with imperative languages, and have prototyped some 
explorables 

 
with my plugin.)


On Saturday, 12 May 2018 12:56:52 UTC-5, Mark S. wrote:
>
> "It pairs the functionality of word processing 
>  software with both the 
> shell  and kernel 
>  of that 
> notebook's programming language 
> ."
>
> That sounds a lot like TW. TW would need a math plugin to easily get to 
> the "computational" part. Possibly a platform for students or fieldworkers 
> collecting data.
>
> -- Mark
>
> On Saturday, May 12, 2018 at 10:33:53 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>
>> If you wondering what a "Computational Notebook" is and what the current 
>> enthusiasm about them is about, read ...
>>
>> 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notebook_interface ... which shows the 
>> idea is not new, and immediately you can see that TW can be that ...
>>
>> 2 - https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-01676633/document ... a very 
>> good academic text about them.
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/5295ba08-8a01-4b47-888a-e36e3f13304a%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[tw5] Re: TW Twitter -- Computational Notebooks in TW? ...

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

"It pairs the functionality of word processing 
 software with both the shell 
 and kernel 
 of that 
notebook's programming language 
."

That sounds a lot like TW. TW would need a math plugin to easily get to the 
"computational" part. Possibly a platform for students or fieldworkers 
collecting data.

-- Mark

On Saturday, May 12, 2018 at 10:33:53 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> If you wondering what a "Computational Notebook" is and what the current 
> enthusiasm about them is about, read ...
>
> 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notebook_interface ... which shows the 
> idea is not new, and immediately you can see that TW can be that ...
>
> 2 - https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-01676633/document ... a very 
> good academic text about them.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/979bc7e1-bbc6-4c97-8fad-56ec86cfa2e1%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[tw5] Re: TW Twitter -- Computational Notebooks in TW? ...

[@TiddlyTweeter]

If you wondering what a "Computational Notebook" is and what the current 
enthusiasm about them is about, read ...

1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notebook_interface ... which shows the 
idea is not new, and immediately you can see that TW can be that ...

2 - https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-01676633/document ... a very good 
academic text about them.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/d420fec4-7a8e-419a-a4aa-b31822e58cbc%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.