[twdev] Re: [TWX] tiddler=encapsulation paradigm

[TonyM]

All,

I just noticed setting the tiddler type to text/plain is another way if you 
do not need the code tiddler itself to include wiki formatting. perhaps 
other tiddler types would be better.

Tony 

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[twdev] Re: [TWX] tiddler=encapsulation paradigm

[TonyM]

Mario,

The idea of literate Programming, or self documentation is supportive of 
community development and reuse. Sometimes the main thing is to lead by 
example, other developers can jump on the bandwagon. The Truth is self 
documentation needs to be inline with the code. I have not seen any inline 
commenting features, do you know any?

I took your hint and created a tiddler ShowCode and Tagged it 
$:/tags/ViewTemplate

<$list filter=[is[current]tag[ShowCode]]>
<$view field="text"/>


If we had a comprehensive "Language Guide" reference for tiddlywiki we 
could allow self documentation to reference entries in the reference. For 
example 

<- If the Current tiddler is tagged ShowCode display the text field without 
wiki formatting - See Docs Display in view template ->
<$list filter=[is[current]tag[ShowCode]]>
<$view field="text"/>
 

It would be nice to have a toggle in the More toolbar to do this, actually 
a generic way to add tag toggles to the toolbar would be nice.

The Truth is in some cases exhaustive self documentation can give rise to 
bloat, so an ability to save a tiddlywiki or a tiddler with the self 
documentation automatically removed should be available. This should be 
trivial if we have a standard way to comment code, A standard "code notes 
field" or "code reference" link may also help

The capture of self documented code patterns in a repository would also be 
helpful, a kind of Git for code snippets, code tiddlers "code reference 
link " could then point to an entry in the repository that documents the 
code (in Reuse cases).

Regards
Tony


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[twdev] Re: TWC: Tiddlyfox - it happened again

[TonyM]

Shankar,

If you can install apps on your computer (no restrictions such as on a work 
PC) one rapid route to getting up and running is to go to prtableapps.com 
and include FireFox ESR which is maintained but fixed at Version 52.3.0 for 
a while.

This allows you to keep your current browser and its updates but allows you 
to keep using existing TW's and TiddlyFox (Although you can not run both at 
once), Unitl you resolve which long term method you use to access 
Tiddlywiki from a latest version TiddlyFox you will have a reliable access 
to your current tiddlywikis.

The TiddlyWIki Community are working on multiple alternatives to deal with 
this "unpleasant" browser change, I have no doubt an easy to use solution 
will be developed/documented.

Regards
Tony

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[twdev] Re: TWC: Tiddlyfox - it happened again

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Shankar,

TiddlyDesktop has an old rendering engine. Many types of pages will begin 
to look messy until its updated with a newer engine. Recently the author, 
@Jermolene (Jeremy Ruston, creator of TiddlyWiki), said he will update it. 
When I don't know.

My "ESR post" is the last resort to squeeze life out of Firefox for a few 
more months. (BTW if you on TWC just use the last working TiddlyFox if you 
go with it, rather than what I list).

Google Groups are awful to search. I am NOT surprised you did not find it. 
Most of the time I can't find anything myself.

Best wishes & good luck
Josiah

On Tuesday, 26 September 2017 19:21:21 UTC+2, Shankar Swamy wrote:
>
> Thank you, Josiah.  I had not seen that posting - and apparently did not 
> search properly before posting.
>
> Right now I rolled back to a older version.  I am alright - although for 
> this moment!
>
> I tried Tiddlydesktop.  Unfortunately its rendering of my TW is not 
> identical to FF's and I find the latter's rendering better.  This more less 
> though sounds like a "ticking time-bomb"!
>
> Thanks!
>
> Cheers; 'best,
> shankar
>

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[twdev] Re: TWC: Tiddlyfox - it happened again

[Shankar Swamy]

Thank you, Josiah.  I had not seen that posting - and apparently did not 
search properly before posting.

Right now I rolled back to a older version.  I am alright - although for 
this moment!

I tried Tiddlydesktop.  Unfortunately its rendering of my TW is not 
identical to FF's and I find the latter's rendering better.  This more less 
though sounds like a "ticking time-bomb"!

Thanks!

Cheers; 'best,
shankar

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[twdev] Re: [TWX] tiddler=encapsulation paradigm

[PMario]

On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 10:19:56 AM UTC+2, Mat wrote:
>
> As reflected on elsewhere, tiddler philosophy 
>  is pretty close to 
> "encapsulation philosophy" in programming (...as far as I can tell. I'm not 
> a coder.) 
>

Encapsulation in terms of "one function should be only doing one thing 
well" is a good thing.
... but ... 
In terms of "documentation" we want to break this paradigm. Documentation 
shouldn't be separated from the source code. Programmers are "lazy". They 
change the code, but don't fix the docs ;) ... That's one of the biggest 
problems we have to face.

So we need a mechanism that can combine this 2 necessities. One way would 
be: Literate Programming 
. 

I actually found TW, as I was searching for a "literate programming" 
*editor*. Literate programming is a concept, that allows you to mix 
"documentation" with "code"... So you only have to maintain *one "source of 
truth"* ... 

TW's transclusion concept is exactly one part of the equation. It allows us 
to mix TW-text with code of any language. 
eg: 

! Heading

Some literate description about the problem. ... A very detailed 
description. 

{{code-tiddler}}

Some more text ... 

The problem we are facing now, is that we need a mechanism to extract the 
code from the docs __AND__ convert the docs into a human readable format, 
that contains the code and the docs!

Tiddlers could "mirror" a general code function, e.g with the *title of the 
> tiddler* serving as the *function name*, a predefined *parameters field*, 
> using *field names+values* as *variable declarations*, etc. One function 
> = one tiddler. (...embracing another, perhaps more aesthetic, philosophy of 
> "everything is a tiddler")
>

This paragraph imo is way to "solution" oriented. It's very specific and 
not as generic as it should be. ... It reflects a certain point of view - 
yours. Which is perfectly fine. ... But it also limits its possible 
usecases. Cases which I and you may not think about in the moment. ... 
 

> A user friendly UI for building complex multi-function code could consist 
> of drag'n dropping tiddlers into a flow sequence perhaps comparable to 
> Scratch  programming or Google Blockly 
> . (BTW, the next version of the 
> former will be based on the latter.)
>

That's possible. ... Someone with enough time and resources just needs to 
do it. 
 

> Also widgets could have this physical manifestation for a GUI.
>

Very early alpha versions of TW had their own *widget-GUI in tiddler edit 
mode*. ... But widgets and their parameters changed so fast, that it was 
impossible to keep the GUI up to date. It was hard to maintain and it also 
was ugly (sry to say that :) ... So it needed to be removed. 

The widget parameters are pretty stable now. ... So ther could be a new 
approach to create a GUI to create "wiki-text-programs". 

Perhaps two tiers for editing: a GUI mode and a text based mode.
>

Hihi, ... one more system to maintain ;)
 

> The idea is worth considering;
>

yes

it should definitely increase* re-usability* for code. The 
> tiddler-as-function-shell format would also encourage TW philosophy... or, 
> if this was the only option for creating functions /macros, then it would 
> simply force users into understanding tiddler philosophy.
>

ouch ... do you really think we should "force" users? ... We need some 
rules - yes. But IMO the system needs to be generic enough to let the users 
do what they want. The system needs to go out of the users way. 

 - If the user wants big tiddlers -- fine. 
 - If the user wants small tiddlers -- fine too!
 

> Currently, I find myself making huge monolithic tiddlers with complex 
> macros because separate macro-tiddlers force re-rendering which makes in-TW 
> dev hard. Separate tids currently also makes you loose overview.
>

That's not really your problem. It's an "editor problem". ... At the moment 
we have to start with big tiddlers defining many macros in one tiddler, 
because macros are "hidden" when you save them. 

There is a workaround that I stole from Eric (thx :) 

\define macro()
do something
\end

<$view field="text"/>


If you put the above line into macro source tiddlers you can read them in 
view mode, without side effects. 

. which brings us back to Literate Programming. 

To be able to mix code and a literate description of code, we need to 
improve our UI ... a little bit. _But_ we have all the pieces already built 
in to TW. 

have fun!
mario

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[twdev] Re: [TWX] tiddler=encapsulation paradigm

[Yakov]

Hi Mat,

I'd suggest to accompany this with some examples illustrating what you 
mean. For now this sounds very vague :)

Best regards,
Yakov.

четверг, 31 августа 2017 г., 11:19:56 UTC+3 пользователь Mat написал:
>
> As reflected on elsewhere, tiddler philosophy 
>  is pretty close to 
> "encapsulation philosophy" in programming (...as far as I can tell. I'm not 
> a coder.) 
>
> For TiddlyWiki X (a generic term introduced by Jeremy for a potential 
> future remake of TW) it would be neat to embrace this as a paradigm:
>
> Tiddlers could "mirror" a general code function, e.g with the *title of 
> the tiddler* serving as the *function name*, a predefined *parameters 
> field*, using *field names+values* as *variable declarations*, etc. One 
> function = one tiddler. (...embracing another, perhaps more aesthetic, 
> philosophy of "everything is a tiddler")
>
> A user friendly UI for building complex multi-function code could consist 
> of drag'n dropping tiddlers into a flow sequence perhaps comparable to 
> Scratch  programming or Google Blockly 
> . (BTW, the next version of the 
> former will be based on the latter.)
>
> Also widgets could have this physical manifestation for a GUI.
>
> Perhaps two tiers for editing: a GUI mode and a text based mode.
>
> The idea is worth considering; it should definitely increase* 
> re-usability* for code. The tiddler-as-function-shell format would also 
> encourage TW philosophy... or, if this was the only option for creating 
> functions /macros, then it would simply force users into understanding 
> tiddler philosophy. Currently, I find myself making huge monolithic 
> tiddlers with complex macros because separate macro-tiddlers force 
> re-rendering which makes in-TW dev hard. Separate tids currently also makes 
> you loose overview.
>
> <:-)
>
>
>

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[twdev] Re: TWC: Tiddlyfox - it happened again

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Shankar

Read this post ... it may help understand what is happening & what to do 
about it ...

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/tiddlywiki/best$20bet/tiddlywiki/4yyMPH-0hXg/SjIOy7aeAgAJ

Best wishes
Josiah

On Tuesday, 26 September 2017 03:04:37 UTC+2, Shankar Swamy wrote:
>
> Inadvertently I said "Update" for my Firefox and now it is refusing to 
> install Tiddlyfox.  Normally, I have the auto update turned off to ward off 
> against this (and do not use Firefox for anything else other than my local 
> TiddlyWiki).  I think I accidentally checked off "auto update" at some 
> point.
>
> Do I need to rollback my Firefox now? Or, will there be an update 
> available to Tiddlyfox anytime soon?
>
> My version is: 57.0b2 (64-bit) (Developer Edition).
>
> Thanks!
>
> Cheers; 'best,
> shankar
>

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