[twdev] Re: Custom markup (continued 3)

[@TiddlyTweeter]

PMario wrote:
>
>
> Yea, there is still some problems, with the TW core parser, that 
> introduces P tags, where they shouldn't be. .. I think there is no real way 
> to work around this. :/
>

Right. I noticed that. I also noticed you can suppress that behavior. 
Though I haven't quite pinned down how and where you can. But, for 
instance, if you start a tiddler ** you get ...




But if you start it *»article* you get ...




Just a comment.

TT

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[twdev] Re: Custom markup (continued 3)

[TonyM]

Mario,

Thanks for the progress and listening. Today is a public holiday and I am 
spending time with my partner, so may not feedback today.

This project certainly has "energised me" both for its outcomes and what I 
perceive to be other key improvements we need in TiddlyWiki. It has also 
led to some new insights. 

One project is "canned templates", basically a set of templates in tiddlers 
with practical names.

   - Helpful with a number of customise shortcuts


For example "(new-journal-here)" is a tiddler, `{{||(new-journal-here)}}` 
will present a new journal here button for the current Tiddler. Basically a 
pseudonym for 
{{||$:/core/ui/Buttons/new-journal-here}}

Either in a viewTemplate, wikitext or *Using customised shortcuts* which 
use a list they are a quick way to add features

\customise tick=toptoc _element="$list" filter="[tag[toc]]"

´toptoc {{||(link)}} {{||(new-here)}}

Gives

[image: Snag_6a15d6.png]
Some I am building

   - (block)
   - (caption-title)
   - (copy-text)
   - (copy-title)
   - (currentTiddler)
   - (edit-fields)
   - (edit-text)
   - (edit)
   - (editor)
   - (export-tiddler)
   - (inline)
   - (link)
   - (new-here)
   - (new-journal-here)
   - (notes-tiddler)
   - (open-window) 
   toptoc {{||(open-window)}} {{||(link)}}
   - (set-tsn)
   - (tiddler-buttons) a set of buttons to use on lists of tiddlers

[image: Snag_708d0c.png] 




Regards
Tony

On Sunday, 4 October 2020 23:23:33 UTC+11, PMario wrote:
>
> Hi foks,
>
> I did just upload V0.6.0 which has some INCOMPATIBLE changes. 
>
>
>- *New Functionality*
>   - $:/config/custom-markup/pragma/PageTemplate 
>   
> 
>  
>   tagged: $:/tags/Macro
>  - content: \importcustom [tag[$:/tags/pragma]]
>   - contains global pragma definitions .. and macro definitions
>- *Incompatible changes*
>   - _params renamed to -> _classes
>   - _maps renamed to -> _params !!
>   - Adjusted the docs accordingly
>- Improved debug modes
>   - \debugcustomize new parameters: no, list, global, global list, global 
>   ID
>   - _debug new parameter: no,
>- angel renamed to: angle + docs
>
> -mario
>

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[twdev] Re: Custom markup (continued 3)

[PMario]

Hi foks,

I did just upload V0.6.0 which has some INCOMPATIBLE changes. 


   - *New Functionality*
  - $:/config/custom-markup/pragma/PageTemplate 
  

 
  tagged: $:/tags/Macro
 - content: \importcustom [tag[$:/tags/pragma]]
  - contains global pragma definitions .. and macro definitions
   - *Incompatible changes*
  - _params renamed to -> _classes
  - _maps renamed to -> _params !!
  - Adjusted the docs accordingly
   - Improved debug modes
  - \debugcustomize new parameters: no, list, global, global list, global 
  ID
  - _debug new parameter: no,
   - angel renamed to: angle + docs

-mario

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[twdev] Re: Custom markup (continued 3)

[PMario]

On Saturday, October 3, 2020 at 10:18:14 AM UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Ciao PMario & all
>
> I been doing a lot of testing of using Custom Markup for layouts and 
> precision CSS application. It is VERY good. 
>
> A number of issues came up. I will post about each separately. First I 
> comment about Editor Look & Keys, then Fonts & Unicode.
>
> I did testing on English Win7 (DT), Italian Win10 (tablet) & Android6 
> (standard phone) computers.
>
> *1 - EDITOR LOOK & SETUP*
>
> *Key Availability *- It became clear quickly that whilst all three system 
> tested on have Font Support they all differ in native Keyboard Support. 
> *None has all 6 IDs available easily on keys.*
> This just confirms what we said before: *the tool requires buttons, 
> keyboard shortcuts and likely (for boilerplate WikiText) stamp tool use.*
>
> The approach PMario took to deal with this via buttons & key shortcuts 
> works well... 
> but ...
>

OK

*Too Many Buttons? - **I think there may be too many buttons :-). *For 
> instance are the buttons that just *remove *an ID needed at all?
> What is primary is to be able to insert IDs, which it does. 
> But I don't see added value (myself) to remove them where a single 
> "delete" stroke does it anyway!
>

With the default configuration, there will only be 2 buttons. Remove 
"angle" and Add "angle" ... To deal with paragraphs. 

The rest will be activated by the users, if they want them. 

 

> *Button Pictures - *This is ONLY an aesthetics comment; but why not just 
> have a *picture of the single ID* on a button and no more?
> Visually I think they are over-noisy. 
>

right! 

At the beginning, they where very similar to the "Apply bulleted list" 
buttons, but the icons where to small, to be seen, so I reduced them to 2 
lines instead of 3. .. BUT you are right. Now they are already different, 
so we can simplify them.

I'll have a closer look. 
 

> 2 - SOME NOTES ON FONT SUPPORT - PMario & I already briefly discussed 
> this. 
> Its not an issue on the 6 IDs, at least not for European languages. 
>
> But it *is an issue if you want to use Unicode characters in \customize 
> pragma*.
>
 

> I tried to pin down some RELIABLE (typographic) characters available 
> through Unicode (i.e. that have "universal" font support).
> This is not an easy thing to do. Font substitution behavior of OS' systems 
> (a pretty amazing process BTW) that create "composite" fonts on the fly, 
> using available fonts on the computer can make it near impossible to 
> predict (1) glyphs that will appear in other people's TW; (2) what they 
> will look like (e.g. sometimes coloured, sometimes not, sometimes visually 
> very different).
>
> This is obviously NOT directly a TW issue. But it made me wonder whether 
> in fact we (the whole internet) are seriously under-using Unicode that 
> would make life much easier---and not just to better support Custom Markup.
>
> My point for TW? I'm wondering IF, we could assemble a *custom font *of 
> say 100 Unicode *typographic *signs (e.g. punctuation marks, markup 
> symbols, reference signs etc)  and *EMBED* this in a TW?
>

I'm not the biggest fan of embedded fonts, because of size. ... BUT it will 
be possible with a second plugin, so users can decide.
 

> I don't know how you'd embed it or access the font. But I know how to make 
> such a font set.
>

I personally would install the font. 
 

> Q: Is it possible? Your thoughts?
>

I would even consider to create a browser AddOn, that will make the font 
available for TWs, if users don't want to install new system fonts. 
I'm not sure if this is possible, but it would be worth a test. 

-mario
 

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[twdev] Re: Custom markup (continued 3)

[PMario]

On Saturday, October 3, 2020 at 10:56:44 AM UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Ciao PMario
>
> *A CONFESSION -* Using Custom Markup at first was very confusing for me!
> As soon as I started to do anything other than simple the layout would 
> break.
> *This is because of Custom Markup's richness. Because it can do a lot a 
> lot of different ways.*
>
> There are several dimensions which behave differently according to ID or 
> \customize settings ... In my own way of thinking you have ...
>
> *Scope Match of three types* (expressed in pseudo-regex) ...
>
>1. ^ID ... \n (for 4 IDs)
>2. ^ID ... \n\n (for 2 IDs)
>3. ^_endString (overrides default scope 1 & 2 in \customize)
>
> Yes. The _endString basically makes them the same! 
 

> *\customize Flow Setting of two types*
>
>1. _mode="inline" (default)
>2. _mode="block"
>
> That's the same behaviour, like the TW core parser. 
 

> These can variously interact under nesting. They can also change existing 
> WikiText behaviors on line-spacing (when its nested inside some custom 
> constructs) in a way that can be confusing at first.  Now I understand it 
> much better. When you understand how it works its ROBUST and you can do 
> pretty amazing things very elegantly & efficiently.
>

Yea, there is still some problems, with the TW core parser, that introduces 
P tags, where they shouldn't be. .. I think there is no real way to work 
around this. :/
 

> My point? I think we need to try help PMario document it. 
>

That's a good idea. Especially documented examples will be helpful. ... 

I did improve the _debug and \debugcustomize commands quite a bit. ... The 
can be also used for documentation now. ... 
 

> In particular we currently lack a brief summary that indicates the 
> "interactivity" that totally confused me at first.
>

What do you mean by "interactivity"

-mario

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[twdev] Re: Custom markup (continued 3)

[PMario]

On Saturday, October 3, 2020 at 11:56:54 AM UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Ciao PMario
>
> *Is Six ID's Enough? YES.*
>
> In practical use I think its a good number.
>
> - Good balance between strict TECHNICAL NEED to make it work (i.e. 2) and 
> ..
> - ... VISUAL VARIANCE to make typing variant markup a good experience.
>
> In my tests I used all 6. 2 extensively. 2 moderately. 2 for special cases.
> That number is well supporting of even complex markup.
>
> I would cap it at 6. More, I think, would be visually redundant.
>

Yea, .. I do think so too. ... In reality with 1 ID you also have the 
 character / name. So the possibilities are almost endless. 

I also wanted to use IDs, that should be available with different keyboard 
layouts. So depending on the keyboard layout there should be at least 1 or 
2 IDs available, that are easy to type. 

BUT we will see, once I introduce the plugin in the main group.

-m

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[twdev] Re: Custom markup (continued 3)

[PMario]

On Sunday, October 4, 2020 at 8:42:31 AM UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:

Its actually very complex so I've made a simplified single tiddler example 
> containing the \customize, markup example and style block for you to see.
> I hope that will help.The example attached is for using the markup in 
> BLOCK mode I already have working well. 
>

I did fall in my own trap. I had to rename _params to _classes, to see the 
style definitions :)

The point is, I'm completely clueless, why you write "content" with CSS? 
What is the purpose? Or is it just testing out the possibilities?
 

> In a post later today I'll try to make clearer the issues in INLINE mode I 
> was trying to explain.
>

OK

-mario

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[twdev] Re: Custom markup (continued 3)

[PMario]

On Sunday, October 4, 2020 at 8:42:31 AM UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> PMario wrote:
>>
>> Interesting, but without the actual configuration it's really hard for me 
>> to see, what it should do. 
>
> .. Can you export your setting and attach a tiddlers.json, so I can see it?
>
>
> Its actually very complex so I've made a simplified single tiddler example 
> containing the \customize, markup example and style block for you to see.
> I hope that will help.The example attached is for using the markup in 
> BLOCK mode I already have working well. 
>
> In a post later today I'll try to make clearer the issues in INLINE mode I 
> was trying to explain.
>
> Many thanks for your patience!
>

I need the customize pragma definitions?!
-m

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[twdev] Re: Custom markup (continued 3)

[@TiddlyTweeter]

PMario ...
 

>  I'll publish V0.6.0 with some incompatible changes on Sunday. ... We will 
> get global pragma rules, _parms -> _classes,  _maps -> _params ... angel -> 
> angle ;)


Noted! Global pragma rules will be brilliant for my use case. Thanks angel 
for the angle :-).

TT

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