Re: [time-nuts] Efratom M100 oscillator connector
HI Mike, I have 2 FRK's here, both use a connector made by Positronic, it's a "SGM 20". See http://www.connectpositronic.com/downloads/pdf/C008RevC_HighDenRec.pdf The Positronic site (for Australia) is: Australia (Commercial & Industrial & selected Military Accounts) Walcom Pty. Ltd 118 Pryor Road Ourimbah, NSW 2258 Australia Phone: + 61 2 4362 3477 Fax: + 61 2 4362 3293 www.walcom.com.au Contact: Mark Walpole [EMAIL PROTECTED] I bought one complete, used connector assembly on Ebay a while ago for like $10. The P/N on the backshell is stamped "M28748/8-D10L1A". Regards, Bob Martinson, N1VQR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mlmccauley Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 10:20 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Efratom M100 oscillator connector I got a really good deal on a used Ball Efratom M-100 oscillator, and I am unable to find a power connector for it. The manual for the unit states that it is a part number M28748-/8-D10LIA Evidently the M28748 series of connectors are fairly widely used in military equipment, but a search for that particular p/n didn't turn up anything, none of the parts houses that I deal with handle mil type connectors, and I really doubt of I would have any luck at all as an electronics hobbyist calling up a defense contractor trying to buy one connector (to say nothing of what they would want for it even if they agreed to sell one to me...). The connector is rectangular and has three rows of pins, seven in the two outer rows and six in the center. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks in advance, Mike ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B question
Here are the retest results. The cable length is now doubled, was 4 feet, now it's 8 feet. min 999.99571 max 999.99924 avg 999.99759 median 999.99767 Quite similar, within less than 1 mHz of the first run. If you or anyone else wud like the raw data & graphs, I can send them easily. Tom, enjoyed the article & pics in "Wired". I read it on line. Regards, Bob Martinson, N1VQR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Van Baak Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 5:16 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B question Bob, Can you re-run your test with a different length of loop-back cable? Something between a few more feet and a few more inches is fine. /tvb >I ran my 5370B for one hour, counting its own reference with a one second > gate. The summary of the results are: > > min 999.99650 Hz > max 999.99963 Hz > avg 999.99796 Hz > median 999.99787 Hz > > Per the manual's Performance Test 5 (page 4-12) the spec is +/- 0.005 Hz. > It would be nice if my average was 10,000,000.000 HZ but?? From a Time-nuts > thread of several months ago, the adjustment for this result is very touchy > and it's likely you will make the result worse rather then better. Since > mine is in spec, I'll leave it alone. > > I have sent the graphical & raw data to Corby, if anybody else is interested > please advise me of your email address. > > Regards, > Bob Martinson, N1VQR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Efratom M100 oscillator connector
Hi Mike: See: http://www.prc68.com/I/O1814.shtml#M100 You might have better luck looking for Winchester connector. Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.precisionclock.com http://www.prc68.com/I/WebCam2.shtml 24/7 Sky-Weather-Astronomy Cam mlmccauley wrote: > I got a really good deal on a used Ball Efratom M-100 oscillator, and I > am unable to find a power connector for it. The manual for the unit > states that it is a part number > > M28748-/8-D10LIA > > Evidently the M28748 series of connectors are fairly widely used in > military equipment, but a search for that particular p/n didn't turn up > anything, none of the parts houses that I deal with handle mil type > connectors, and I really doubt of I would have any luck at all as an > electronics hobbyist calling up a defense contractor trying to buy one > connector (to say nothing of what they would want for it even if they > agreed to sell one to me...). > > The connector is rectangular and has three rows of pins, seven in the > two outer rows and six in the center. > > Anyone have any ideas? > > Thanks in advance, > > Mike ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Efratom M100 oscillator connector
I got a really good deal on a used Ball Efratom M-100 oscillator, and I am unable to find a power connector for it. The manual for the unit states that it is a part number M28748-/8-D10LIA Evidently the M28748 series of connectors are fairly widely used in military equipment, but a search for that particular p/n didn't turn up anything, none of the parts houses that I deal with handle mil type connectors, and I really doubt of I would have any luck at all as an electronics hobbyist calling up a defense contractor trying to buy one connector (to say nothing of what they would want for it even if they agreed to sell one to me...). The connector is rectangular and has three rows of pins, seven in the two outer rows and six in the center. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks in advance, Mike ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] AVR Oscilloscope clock
Fellow timenuts, A friend passed me the link to it, I got one, tossed it together, and it works nicely. http://dutchtronix.com/ScopeClock.htm It has PPS input and NMEA parsing seems to be down the line. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] analog network demise and greetings
hi been lurking for a while. with the demise of the nationwide analog cell network, is there to be a sudden influx of desirable goodies on the surplus market?? http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iiczkwxq1jK5IKXGCsNQkWgOHmQAD8TM1PKG0 thanks dave -- Dave Mallery, K5EN (ubuntu linux 7.04) PO Box 3519.~. _ T or C, NM 87901 /V\ -o) no gates... /( )\ /\\ running Debian GNU/Linux no windows! ^_\_vfree at last! linux counter #64628 "People aren't as dumb as Microsoft needs them to be." --PJ, May 2007 www.stores.ebay.com/davessurpluscables/ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] M12+/M12M manual
Javier, You can find the M12M Users Guide on our web site: http://www.synergy-gps.com/content/view/57/78/ Art Sepin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Javier Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 12:15 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] M12+/M12M manual Hello all, I'm looking for the M12+ or M12M manual, since the newest one I have is the 2001 M12 Oncore User's Guide Supplement, and this one does not cover several new commands available in the M12+/M12M. I would be very grateful if somebody could point me to where to download it, or could send me it. Thank you very much. Best regards, Javier, EA1CRB ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] M12+/M12M manual
I forgot to mention another hint, a bit hidden, but there is a summary of 14 interesting pdf concerning the M12M: http://www.synergy-gps.com/images/stories/exe/M12M%20Kit%20Files.zip I hope this helps somebody greetings, Arnold On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 22:52:57 +0100, Arnold Tibus wrote: >Please look here for the M12M Users Guide: >http://www.synergy-gps.com/images/stories/guides/m12m%20users%20guide%201.0.pdf >http://www.synergy-gps.com/content/view/57/58/ >kind regards >Arnold, DK2WT >On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 16:41:22 -0500, Daun Yeagley wrote: >>I wouldn't mind finding a copy either. Any chance someone can post it? >>Daun >>-Original Message- >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >>Behalf Of Javier >>Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 3:28 PM >>To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] M12+/M12M manual >>Please ignore... already found it :) >>Thanks! Regards, >>Javier >>Javier escribió: >>> Hello all, >>> >>> I'm looking for the M12+ or M12M manual, since the newest one I have is >>> the 2001 M12 Oncore User's Guide Supplement, and this one does not cover >>> several new commands available in the M12+/M12M. I would be very >>> grateful if somebody could point me to where to download it, or could >>> send me it. >>> >>> Thank you very much. Best regards, >>> >>> Javier, EA1CRB >>> >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> >>> >>___ >>time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>To unsubscribe, go to >>https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>and follow the instructions there. >>___ >>time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>and follow the instructions there. >___ >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] M12+/M12M manual
Please look here for the M12M Users Guide: http://www.synergy-gps.com/images/stories/guides/m12m%20users%20guide%201.0.pdf http://www.synergy-gps.com/content/view/57/58/ kind regards Arnold, DK2WT On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 16:41:22 -0500, Daun Yeagley wrote: >I wouldn't mind finding a copy either. Any chance someone can post it? >Daun >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >Behalf Of Javier >Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 3:28 PM >To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >Subject: Re: [time-nuts] M12+/M12M manual >Please ignore... already found it :) >Thanks! Regards, >Javier >Javier escribió: >> Hello all, >> >> I'm looking for the M12+ or M12M manual, since the newest one I have is >> the 2001 M12 Oncore User's Guide Supplement, and this one does not cover >> several new commands available in the M12+/M12M. I would be very >> grateful if somebody could point me to where to download it, or could >> send me it. >> >> Thank you very much. Best regards, >> >> Javier, EA1CRB >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> >___ >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to >https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >and follow the instructions there. >___ >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] M12+/M12M manual
I wouldn't mind finding a copy either. Any chance someone can post it? Daun -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Javier Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 3:28 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] M12+/M12M manual Please ignore... already found it :) Thanks! Regards, Javier Javier escribió: > Hello all, > > I'm looking for the M12+ or M12M manual, since the newest one I have is > the 2001 M12 Oncore User's Guide Supplement, and this one does not cover > several new commands available in the M12+/M12M. I would be very > grateful if somebody could point me to where to download it, or could > send me it. > > Thank you very much. Best regards, > > Javier, EA1CRB > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] M12+/M12M manual
Please ignore... already found it :) Thanks! Regards, Javier Javier escribió: > Hello all, > > I'm looking for the M12+ or M12M manual, since the newest one I have is > the 2001 M12 Oncore User's Guide Supplement, and this one does not cover > several new commands available in the M12+/M12M. I would be very > grateful if somebody could point me to where to download it, or could > send me it. > > Thank you very much. Best regards, > > Javier, EA1CRB > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] M12+/M12M manual
Hello all, I'm looking for the M12+ or M12M manual, since the newest one I have is the 2001 M12 Oncore User's Guide Supplement, and this one does not cover several new commands available in the M12+/M12M. I would be very grateful if somebody could point me to where to download it, or could send me it. Thank you very much. Best regards, Javier, EA1CRB ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] evaluation of 5071a(hp)
From what I remember from the years I worked on the 5071A is that the prognosis for CBT's in long term storage is very poor. The Navy had to scrap a bunch of them due to this problem. I vaguely remember that the pressure got too high for the ion pump to start. If it does start, I think ion current is an indicator of vacuum. In marginal cases there are tricks for starting the ion pump. This is all I remember hearing anecdotaly, maybe others can chime in. This problem is the same as for the 5061 CBT. Rick Karlquist N6RK David Welch wrote: > I am new to this forum and was wondering if someone would know how to check > if the tube in a agilent 5071a is any good.these units are new in box but > have been in storage many years(bad idea)..is there anything to look at > during start up to give you an indication of outgassing ar vacum loss? could > a tube that locks now fail in a few weeks of use even if new but stored > without power for years?IF anyone has any suggestions let me know > ..thanks..David > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 5071A tube evaluation
I was wondering about a 5061b that I got from a government liquidation auction..I have had it locked for months now I just checked the mult meter, reads 41 is this tube end of life as you were saying or are these diff scale..I dont have any manuals for any ofthe 5061 a or b - Original Message - From: "corby d dawson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 9:09 AM Subject: [time-nuts] 5071A tube evaluation > David, > > If the unit has been stored for years then the first time it is plugged > in the ion pump current displayed will be high and the Cs oven will be > disabled. > > When the ion pump current drops the oven will turn on momentarily and > outgas. This will cause the ion pump current to rise and cut off the oven > again. > > This cycle will continue (sometimes for many hours) until finally the > oven will stay on. > > The after 15 minutes or so the unit should lock. > > Now monitor the electron multiplier voltage for a week or so. It > hopefully will start out well below 2500 Volts and remain stable. > > If should remain stable and not exibit a constant rise (over a week or > so, it can show slow variations over months). > > The amplifer gains should also be low. (for the default starting values > look at the gains before the unit warms up.) > > A depleted tube will show a rapid rise up to the maximum voltage and > after the amplfier gains also rise to the top to compensate the unit will > fault out. > > If the mainframe has a problem or you have a tube not in an instrument I > have a stand alone Cesium tube tester that I charge a small fee to test > tubes in. > > Hope this helps, > > Merry Christmas! > > Corby Dawson > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] 5071A tune evaluation #2
David, Forgot one thing. Once the unit has been running for an hour or so you should hook up a laptop to the RS232 port and run the profiling software. A good tube (in a good instrument as fault might not be the tubes!) will read in band 1 for both parameters, I can email you the program file if you don't have it. Corby Dawson ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] 5071A tube evaluation
David, If the unit has been stored for years then the first time it is plugged in the ion pump current displayed will be high and the Cs oven will be disabled. When the ion pump current drops the oven will turn on momentarily and outgas. This will cause the ion pump current to rise and cut off the oven again. This cycle will continue (sometimes for many hours) until finally the oven will stay on. The after 15 minutes or so the unit should lock. Now monitor the electron multiplier voltage for a week or so. It hopefully will start out well below 2500 Volts and remain stable. If should remain stable and not exibit a constant rise (over a week or so, it can show slow variations over months). The amplifer gains should also be low. (for the default starting values look at the gains before the unit warms up.) A depleted tube will show a rapid rise up to the maximum voltage and after the amplfier gains also rise to the top to compensate the unit will fault out. If the mainframe has a problem or you have a tube not in an instrument I have a stand alone Cesium tube tester that I charge a small fee to test tubes in. Hope this helps, Merry Christmas! Corby Dawson ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Counter display resolution
Hi Mike, Thanks for the explanation. As I do not own a "reciprocal" counter, I was unfamilar or had forgotten the issue you described. "Reciprocal" was the missing link ! BillWB6BNQ Mike Feher wrote: > Bill - > > Sorry if I was vague. I am assuming that the frequency read out is the > frequency in the display, and, not one over the bus. Regardless of the fact > that the counter is auto scaling or not, they can only display a fixed > number of digits. I am also assuming that these are reciprocal type of > counters. So, given a fixed time base, and a fixed number of digits, if the > delta f measured is above 10 MHz, then with a 11 digit display, you would > read 10,000,000.000 Hz plus the offset from that number. So, the observable > delta f would be at best in the 0.000 Hz range. Now, if the frequency > measured was slightly below 10 MHz, you would be able to display up to > 9,999,999. Hz. I am not considering any averaging at this time, just > what is displayed. So, in this case you should be able to measure down to > 0. Hz delta f. Hence my statement of the extra LSD being shown. This has > been my experience. Regards - Mike > > > > Mike B. Feher, N4FS > 89 Arnold Blvd. > Howell, NJ, 07731 > 732-886-5960 > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of WB6BNQ > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 7:00 AM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: [time-nuts] Counter display resolution > > Mike, > > Your statement about "counters" is rather general and misleading. You need > to > explain your comment better. > > For instance, are your referring to the input signal or did you mean having > the > internal reference frequency offset from a standard value ? All the > counters I > have do not "auto-scale" which is what it sounds like your counter is doing. > However, you do not mention the word "scaling" or "auto" in your statement. > > In all of my counters the digits displayed is what you get no matter what > frequency is being observed. There is no gain in resolution by being > slightly > lower then or any loss by being higher then some arbitrary point. > > For the sake of the less skilled that might be on the list -server, could > you > explain in more clear detail what you were eluding to ? > > Thank you ... BillWB6BNQ > > Mike Feher wrote: > > > Bob - > > > > With most counters, I have found that running them at slightly less than > 10 > > MHz gives you an extra displayed digit of resolution. If the "1" out of 10 > > MHz were to be displayed, it would take up one more digit in the MSD > > position, leaving you one less in the LSD position. Since the numbers are > so > > close anyway, if measuring for stability, I personally would prefer that > > extra digit in the LSD position. Regards - Mike > > > > > > > > Mike B. Feher, N4FS > > 89 Arnold Blvd. > > Howell, NJ, 07731 > > 732-886-5960 > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > Behalf Of Robert E. Martinson > > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 1:57 AM > > To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' > > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B question > > > > I ran my 5370B for one hour, counting its own reference with a one second > > gate. The summary of the results are: > > > > min 999.99650 Hz > > max 999.99963 Hz > > avg 999.99796 Hz > > median 999.99787 Hz > > > > Per the manual's Performance Test 5 (page 4-12) the spec is +/- 0.005 Hz. > > It would be nice if my average was 10,000,000.000 HZ but?? From a > Time-nuts > > thread of several months ago, the adjustment for this result is very > touchy > > and it's likely you will make the result worse rather then better. Since > > mine is in spec, I'll leave it alone. > > > > I have sent the graphical & raw data to Corby, if anybody else is > interested > > please advise me of your email address. > > > > Regards, > > Bob Martinson, N1VQR > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > Behalf Of corby d dawson > > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 2:15 PM > > To: time-nuts@febo.com > > Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5370B question > > > > Hi, > > > > Could a few of the 5370B owners connect the counters reference output to > > its counting input jack and with a 1 second gate let me know what the > > last 2 digits are doing? > > > > An earlier post implied that the last couple digits will wander around > > due to the way its designed. > > > > I'd like to know what a couple different counters show to see if that is > > indeed true! > > > > Thanks, > > > > Corby Dawson > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts maili
[time-nuts] evaluation of 5071a(hp)
I am new to this forum and was wondering if someone would know how to check if the tube in a agilent 5071a is any good.these units are new in box but have been in storage many years(bad idea)..is there anything to look at during start up to give you an indication of outgassing ar vacum loss? could a tube that locks now fail in a few weeks of use even if new but stored without power for years?IF anyone has any suggestions let me know ..thanks..David ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] determining tube life on an hp 5071a
- Original Message - > > > > Hello.I was wondering if any of you guy know a quick easy way to eval tube condition on a 5071a ,these are several years of disuse on these units and I was thinkng of purchsahing a few .does time to lock have anything to do with tube health or are there other factors during warm up that I should look atThanks..David > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Counter display resolution
> Mike , this is correct. if you display just under 10Mhz , you have a > digit better resolution. My counter does the same > > The same applies to 1Mhz , 100Mhz , etc . When the counter just has to > go to the next higher digit, it will loose one digit resolution. Not if the counter can roll-over (i.e. exceed the maximum count for the number of digits displayed). Typically, you know the frequency is, say, close to 10 MHz so displaying the LEADING digits is just a waste of precision. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Counter display resolution
Mike , this is correct. if you display just under 10Mhz , you have a digit better resolution. My counter does the same The same applies to 1Mhz , 100Mhz , etc . When the counter just has to go to the next higher digit, it will loose one digit resolution. Regards, Horst Mike Feher wrote: > Bill - > > Sorry if I was vague. I am assuming that the frequency read out is the > frequency in the display, and, not one over the bus. Regardless of the fact > that the counter is auto scaling or not, they can only display a fixed > number of digits. I am also assuming that these are reciprocal type of > counters. So, given a fixed time base, and a fixed number of digits, if the > delta f measured is above 10 MHz, then with a 11 digit display, you would > read 10,000,000.000 Hz plus the offset from that number. So, the observable > delta f would be at best in the 0.000 Hz range. Now, if the frequency > measured was slightly below 10 MHz, you would be able to display up to > 9,999,999. Hz. I am not considering any averaging at this time, just > what is displayed. So, in this case you should be able to measure down to > 0. Hz delta f. Hence my statement of the extra LSD being shown. This has > been my experience. Regards - Mike > > > > Mike B. Feher, N4FS > 89 Arnold Blvd. > Howell, NJ, 07731 > 732-886-5960 > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of WB6BNQ > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 7:00 AM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: [time-nuts] Counter display resolution > > Mike, > > Your statement about "counters" is rather general and misleading. You need > to > explain your comment better. > > For instance, are your referring to the input signal or did you mean having > the > internal reference frequency offset from a standard value ? All the > counters I > have do not "auto-scale" which is what it sounds like your counter is doing. > However, you do not mention the word "scaling" or "auto" in your statement. > > In all of my counters the digits displayed is what you get no matter what > frequency is being observed. There is no gain in resolution by being > slightly > lower then or any loss by being higher then some arbitrary point. > > For the sake of the less skilled that might be on the list -server, could > you > explain in more clear detail what you were eluding to ? > > Thank you ... BillWB6BNQ > > Mike Feher wrote: > > >> Bob - >> >> With most counters, I have found that running them at slightly less than >> > 10 > >> MHz gives you an extra displayed digit of resolution. If the "1" out of 10 >> MHz were to be displayed, it would take up one more digit in the MSD >> position, leaving you one less in the LSD position. Since the numbers are >> > so > >> close anyway, if measuring for stability, I personally would prefer that >> extra digit in the LSD position. Regards - Mike >> >> >> >> Mike B. Feher, N4FS >> 89 Arnold Blvd. >> Howell, NJ, 07731 >> 732-886-5960 >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >> Behalf Of Robert E. Martinson >> Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 1:57 AM >> To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B question >> >> I ran my 5370B for one hour, counting its own reference with a one second >> gate. The summary of the results are: >> >> min 999.99650 Hz >> max 999.99963 Hz >> avg 999.99796 Hz >> median 999.99787 Hz >> >> Per the manual's Performance Test 5 (page 4-12) the spec is +/- 0.005 Hz. >> It would be nice if my average was 10,000,000.000 HZ but?? From a >> > Time-nuts > >> thread of several months ago, the adjustment for this result is very >> > touchy > >> and it's likely you will make the result worse rather then better. Since >> mine is in spec, I'll leave it alone. >> >> I have sent the graphical & raw data to Corby, if anybody else is >> > interested > >> please advise me of your email address. >> >> Regards, >> Bob Martinson, N1VQR >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >> Behalf Of corby d dawson >> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 2:15 PM >> To: time-nuts@febo.com >> Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5370B question >> >> Hi, >> >> Could a few of the 5370B owners connect the counters reference output to >> its counting input jack and with a 1 second gate let me know what the >> last 2 digits are doing? >> >> An earlier post implied that the last couple digits will wander around >> due to the way its designed. >> >> I'd like to know what a couple different counters show to see if that is >> indeed true! >> >> Thanks, >> >> Corby Dawson >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow th
Re: [time-nuts] Counter display resolution
Bill - Sorry if I was vague. I am assuming that the frequency read out is the frequency in the display, and, not one over the bus. Regardless of the fact that the counter is auto scaling or not, they can only display a fixed number of digits. I am also assuming that these are reciprocal type of counters. So, given a fixed time base, and a fixed number of digits, if the delta f measured is above 10 MHz, then with a 11 digit display, you would read 10,000,000.000 Hz plus the offset from that number. So, the observable delta f would be at best in the 0.000 Hz range. Now, if the frequency measured was slightly below 10 MHz, you would be able to display up to 9,999,999. Hz. I am not considering any averaging at this time, just what is displayed. So, in this case you should be able to measure down to 0. Hz delta f. Hence my statement of the extra LSD being shown. This has been my experience. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell, NJ, 07731 732-886-5960 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of WB6BNQ Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 7:00 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] Counter display resolution Mike, Your statement about "counters" is rather general and misleading. You need to explain your comment better. For instance, are your referring to the input signal or did you mean having the internal reference frequency offset from a standard value ? All the counters I have do not "auto-scale" which is what it sounds like your counter is doing. However, you do not mention the word "scaling" or "auto" in your statement. In all of my counters the digits displayed is what you get no matter what frequency is being observed. There is no gain in resolution by being slightly lower then or any loss by being higher then some arbitrary point. For the sake of the less skilled that might be on the list -server, could you explain in more clear detail what you were eluding to ? Thank you ... BillWB6BNQ Mike Feher wrote: > Bob - > > With most counters, I have found that running them at slightly less than 10 > MHz gives you an extra displayed digit of resolution. If the "1" out of 10 > MHz were to be displayed, it would take up one more digit in the MSD > position, leaving you one less in the LSD position. Since the numbers are so > close anyway, if measuring for stability, I personally would prefer that > extra digit in the LSD position. Regards - Mike > > > > Mike B. Feher, N4FS > 89 Arnold Blvd. > Howell, NJ, 07731 > 732-886-5960 > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Robert E. Martinson > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 1:57 AM > To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B question > > I ran my 5370B for one hour, counting its own reference with a one second > gate. The summary of the results are: > > min 999.99650 Hz > max 999.99963 Hz > avg 999.99796 Hz > median 999.99787 Hz > > Per the manual's Performance Test 5 (page 4-12) the spec is +/- 0.005 Hz. > It would be nice if my average was 10,000,000.000 HZ but?? From a Time-nuts > thread of several months ago, the adjustment for this result is very touchy > and it's likely you will make the result worse rather then better. Since > mine is in spec, I'll leave it alone. > > I have sent the graphical & raw data to Corby, if anybody else is interested > please advise me of your email address. > > Regards, > Bob Martinson, N1VQR > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of corby d dawson > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 2:15 PM > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5370B question > > Hi, > > Could a few of the 5370B owners connect the counters reference output to > its counting input jack and with a 1 second gate let me know what the > last 2 digits are doing? > > An earlier post implied that the last couple digits will wander around > due to the way its designed. > > I'd like to know what a couple different counters show to see if that is > indeed true! > > Thanks, > > Corby Dawson > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Counter display resolution
Mike, Your statement about "counters" is rather general and misleading. You need to explain your comment better. For instance, are your referring to the input signal or did you mean having the internal reference frequency offset from a standard value ? All the counters I have do not "auto-scale" which is what it sounds like your counter is doing. However, you do not mention the word "scaling" or "auto" in your statement. In all of my counters the digits displayed is what you get no matter what frequency is being observed. There is no gain in resolution by being slightly lower then or any loss by being higher then some arbitrary point. For the sake of the less skilled that might be on the list -server, could you explain in more clear detail what you were eluding to ? Thank you ... BillWB6BNQ Mike Feher wrote: > Bob - > > With most counters, I have found that running them at slightly less than 10 > MHz gives you an extra displayed digit of resolution. If the "1" out of 10 > MHz were to be displayed, it would take up one more digit in the MSD > position, leaving you one less in the LSD position. Since the numbers are so > close anyway, if measuring for stability, I personally would prefer that > extra digit in the LSD position. Regards - Mike > > > > Mike B. Feher, N4FS > 89 Arnold Blvd. > Howell, NJ, 07731 > 732-886-5960 > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Robert E. Martinson > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 1:57 AM > To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B question > > I ran my 5370B for one hour, counting its own reference with a one second > gate. The summary of the results are: > > min 999.99650 Hz > max 999.99963 Hz > avg 999.99796 Hz > median 999.99787 Hz > > Per the manual's Performance Test 5 (page 4-12) the spec is +/- 0.005 Hz. > It would be nice if my average was 10,000,000.000 HZ but?? From a Time-nuts > thread of several months ago, the adjustment for this result is very touchy > and it's likely you will make the result worse rather then better. Since > mine is in spec, I'll leave it alone. > > I have sent the graphical & raw data to Corby, if anybody else is interested > please advise me of your email address. > > Regards, > Bob Martinson, N1VQR > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of corby d dawson > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 2:15 PM > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5370B question > > Hi, > > Could a few of the 5370B owners connect the counters reference output to > its counting input jack and with a 1 second gate let me know what the > last 2 digits are doing? > > An earlier post implied that the last couple digits will wander around > due to the way its designed. > > I'd like to know what a couple different counters show to see if that is > indeed true! > > Thanks, > > Corby Dawson > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B question
Bob - With most counters, I have found that running them at slightly less than 10 MHz gives you an extra displayed digit of resolution. If the "1" out of 10 MHz were to be displayed, it would take up one more digit in the MSD position, leaving you one less in the LSD position. Since the numbers are so close anyway, if measuring for stability, I personally would prefer that extra digit in the LSD position. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell, NJ, 07731 732-886-5960 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert E. Martinson Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 1:57 AM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B question I ran my 5370B for one hour, counting its own reference with a one second gate. The summary of the results are: min 999.99650 Hz max 999.99963 Hz avg 999.99796 Hz median 999.99787 Hz Per the manual's Performance Test 5 (page 4-12) the spec is +/- 0.005 Hz. It would be nice if my average was 10,000,000.000 HZ but?? From a Time-nuts thread of several months ago, the adjustment for this result is very touchy and it's likely you will make the result worse rather then better. Since mine is in spec, I'll leave it alone. I have sent the graphical & raw data to Corby, if anybody else is interested please advise me of your email address. Regards, Bob Martinson, N1VQR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of corby d dawson Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 2:15 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5370B question Hi, Could a few of the 5370B owners connect the counters reference output to its counting input jack and with a 1 second gate let me know what the last 2 digits are doing? An earlier post implied that the last couple digits will wander around due to the way its designed. I'd like to know what a couple different counters show to see if that is indeed true! Thanks, Corby Dawson ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] means of calibrating/verifying Ru with GPS
swingbyte wrote: > 1E7 seconds eh? > Well, maybe I don't need that degree of accuracy after all. Thanks for > the quick response. How are these Ru oscillators calibrated in a > commercial environment? what's the likely frequency tolerance on my > second hand Ru osc? I need to revise my theory I think - it been a > while since I opened the maths books. How do the GPSDO deal with this > or is the stability good enough for them? What can I do to improve my > confidence in the frequency output of the Ru? I would like to use this > Ru as a house standard for all my frequency counters etc. > Tim. > > Tim A GPSDO in effect averages the measured PPS phase error over a long time (hundreds to thousands of seconds depending on the stability of the oscillator being disciplined). In other words the Phase locked loop bandwidth is very low. With a good timing receiver (eg M12+T, M12M T) and antenna setup, the PPS rms timing error after sawtooth correction may be as low as a few nanoseconds. If the GPS receiver PPS quantisation error is 1us then a gate time of around 10,000 sec is required to reduce the measurement error to about 1E-10. If the rms error is 10ns then a gate time of 100sec will suffice. One of the better ways to improve your confidence in tRu oscillator characteristics is to time stamp the PPS signal from a GPS timing receiver using a timebase derived from your Ru Oscillator. The easiest way to do this is to use the 5335A to measure the delay from the leading edge of the PPS pulse to the next leading edge of say a 100Hz clock (produced by dividing down the Ru oscillator output. This is known as the picket fence technique. If the measured time delays are logged for several hours then algorithms exist to unambiguously unravel the measurements and convert them to time stamps which can then be processed to derive parameters such as frequency offset etc. Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B question
Bob, Can you re-run your test with a different length of loop-back cable? Something between a few more feet and a few more inches is fine. /tvb >I ran my 5370B for one hour, counting its own reference with a one second > gate. The summary of the results are: > > min 999.99650 Hz > max 999.99963 Hz > avg 999.99796 Hz > median 999.99787 Hz > > Per the manual's Performance Test 5 (page 4-12) the spec is +/- 0.005 Hz. > It would be nice if my average was 10,000,000.000 HZ but?? From a Time-nuts > thread of several months ago, the adjustment for this result is very touchy > and it's likely you will make the result worse rather then better. Since > mine is in spec, I'll leave it alone. > > I have sent the graphical & raw data to Corby, if anybody else is interested > please advise me of your email address. > > Regards, > Bob Martinson, N1VQR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] means of calibrating/verifying Ru with GPS
Bruce Griffiths wrote: > swingbyte wrote: > >> Hi everybody, >> I mentioned some time ago that I had an Ru 10MHz source and I would like >> to calibrate it. I have an hp 5335 counter and a Jupiter GPS with 10kHz >> output. I was wondering if I could use the Ru 10MHz as and external >> clock for the 5335 and then measure the frequency of the 10kHz gps >> locked signal and adjust the Ru to read exactly 10kHz? If I let the >> 5335 average the frequency input it will display 12 digits - how many of >> those are reliable I'm not sure but it seems that this may be an easy >> way for me to check the Ru. >> Is this a viable method or am I missing something - I haven't done a lot >> of research into the time keeping world yet. >> Also, the model Ru I have is the Efratrom frk-h with external frequency >> control. I have had a quick read of the manual but can't find any >> information on how this works. I was thinking this might enable me to >> discipline the Ru to GPS - does anyone know how this works? >> >> Thanks for your help >> Happy holidays >> >> Tim >> >> >> > Tim > > The biggest problem with your proposed measurement scheme is that the > 10kHz signal is no more stable than the PPS output. > The 10kHz output is phase jerked every second to realign it with the UTC > second. > This behaviour is clearly documented in the receiver datasheet. > > Thus to reduce the measurement error due to this instability to better > than 1E-10 or less the counter gate time will need to be around 1000 > seconds or more. > Adjustment to better than 1E-10 will be somewhat problematic not to say > time consuming. > Fortunately the 5335A maximum gate time is 1E7 seconds or about 4 > months, so this may actually be possible. > > Bruce > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > 1E7 seconds eh? Well, maybe I don't need that degree of accuracy after all. Thanks for the quick response. How are these Ru oscillators calibrated in a commercial environment? what's the likely frequency tolerance on my second hand Ru osc? I need to revise my theory I think - it been a while since I opened the maths books. How do the GPSDO deal with this or is the stability good enough for them? What can I do to improve my confidence in the frequency output of the Ru? I would like to use this Ru as a house standard for all my frequency counters etc. Tim. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] means of calibrating/verifying Ru with GPS
swingbyte wrote: > Hi everybody, > I mentioned some time ago that I had an Ru 10MHz source and I would like > to calibrate it. I have an hp 5335 counter and a Jupiter GPS with 10kHz > output. I was wondering if I could use the Ru 10MHz as and external > clock for the 5335 and then measure the frequency of the 10kHz gps > locked signal and adjust the Ru to read exactly 10kHz? If I let the > 5335 average the frequency input it will display 12 digits - how many of > those are reliable I'm not sure but it seems that this may be an easy > way for me to check the Ru. > Is this a viable method or am I missing something - I haven't done a lot > of research into the time keeping world yet. > Also, the model Ru I have is the Efratrom frk-h with external frequency > control. I have had a quick read of the manual but can't find any > information on how this works. I was thinking this might enable me to > discipline the Ru to GPS - does anyone know how this works? > > Thanks for your help > Happy holidays > > Tim > > Tim The biggest problem with your proposed measurement scheme is that the 10kHz signal is no more stable than the PPS output. The 10kHz output is phase jerked every second to realign it with the UTC second. This behaviour is clearly documented in the receiver datasheet. Thus to reduce the measurement error due to this instability to better than 1E-10 or less the counter gate time will need to be around 1000 seconds or more. Adjustment to better than 1E-10 will be somewhat problematic not to say time consuming. Fortunately the 5335A maximum gate time is 1E7 seconds or about 4 months, so this may actually be possible. Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
