Re: [time-nuts] WWV Clock
Majdi S. Abbas m...@latt.net wrote: On Sun, Nov 01, 2009 at 05:51:24PM -0500, Glenn Little WB4UIV wrote: My WWV clock at home and the master clock at the TV station that I am engineer for did not update to EST from EDT. Did anyone else see their WWV clock not change time for DST? WWVB does have a bit that accounts for it, but most of those clocks just try to update once a day, and if they take a single bit error in the minute or two they check, they'll miss it. [...] Majdi, N0RMZ I don't know if WWV receivers work this way, but WWVB clocks start looking at midnight and repeat every hour until 06:00, or until they get a valid signal. Once they update, they no longer look for the time signal until the next midnight. If the signal is strong enough to update at midnight, the clock will miss the time change at 2:00 am. So they will be off by one hour until the next update. In this case, the problem is not due to a weak signal causing a single bit error, it is due to a strong signal and receiving all the bits correctly on the first attempt. In my case, the GCD distance between Toronto and Fort Collins is 1333 miles (2144 km, 1158 nautical miles), and the direction is 269.6 degrees: http://www.indo.com/distance/ The NIST WWVB Coverage maps show the signal in Toronto is good at UTC, and the receiver will probably synchronize on the first attempt at midnight (0500UTC): http://tf.nist.gov/stations/wwvbcoverage.htm So all my WWVB clocks missed the time change on the first day. For reference, the clocks are HTAWI HAA-1203W 12 White Atomic Analog Wall Clock: http://www.partshelf.com/ps-haa-1203w.html They have been on sale for $14.95 for several years, and I can recommend them highly. Good styling, very economical, and excellent reception. When I first got them, I was amazed to see them synchronize at 5:00pm local time when the signals are very weak in Toronto. The only problem is they make a loud tick every second, which is the same as any digital clock movement. One day I will take them apart and put a small resistor and speedup capacitor in series with the motor to quiet them. Regards, Mike Monett ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B(1) sample wav file
It depends on the IRIG card used. With a basic reader card you can sync down to 1 millisecond based on the 1 KHz IRIG-B time code. More elaborate cards have a phase locked 10 MHz oscillator on board, and software to replace the PC's RTC so time comes directly from the card. Sync to a few microseconds and lower is possible. Take a look at Symmetricom (board level products originally from Datum), and Spectracom (boards originally from Odetics via KSI). Rob Kimberley -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Predrag Dukic Sent: 31 October 2009 21:30 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B(1) sample wav file Does anybody know what is the time difference (or error) between two PC-s set this way? (I mean the difference between two PC internal RTCs). Can this method be used to sinc two sound cards, contained in two PCs some distance apart. Predrag Dukic At 17:10 31.10.2009, you wrote: There's a nice package called NMEATime which will generate IRIG-B code using your sound card. http://www.visualgps.net/NMEATime/default.htm Lots of other neat software on that site as well. I bought VisualGPS and NMEATime many moons ago. Happy tweaking. *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 31-Oct-09 at 15:50 Robert Atkinson wrote: Hi, Anybody got a .wav file of a modulated IRIG-B timecode? I just want something to do a quick test on a display. My nomal IRIG generator is buried in the garage. A simple app to drive a sound card would also do. I know at least one of the Linux NTP implementaions can do this but I'm not running Linux and don't really want to do a lot of setting up, just a quick go/no-go check. Robert G8RPI. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4560 (20091031) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m Quid Malmborg in Plano... ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4561 (20091031) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B(1) sample wav file
See also http://www.meinberg.de/english/products/index.htm#single_sync Very competitively priced products from nice friendly company. Rob Kimberley -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Predrag Dukic Sent: 31 October 2009 21:30 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B(1) sample wav file Does anybody know what is the time difference (or error) between two PC-s set this way? (I mean the difference between two PC internal RTCs). Can this method be used to sinc two sound cards, contained in two PCs some distance apart. Predrag Dukic At 17:10 31.10.2009, you wrote: There's a nice package called NMEATime which will generate IRIG-B code using your sound card. http://www.visualgps.net/NMEATime/default.htm Lots of other neat software on that site as well. I bought VisualGPS and NMEATime many moons ago. Happy tweaking. *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 31-Oct-09 at 15:50 Robert Atkinson wrote: Hi, Anybody got a .wav file of a modulated IRIG-B timecode? I just want something to do a quick test on a display. My nomal IRIG generator is buried in the garage. A simple app to drive a sound card would also do. I know at least one of the Linux NTP implementaions can do this but I'm not running Linux and don't really want to do a lot of setting up, just a quick go/no-go check. Robert G8RPI. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4560 (20091031) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m Quid Malmborg in Plano... ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4561 (20091031) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B(1) sample wav file
Well, for my application, probably 1 ms is sufficient. Is it possible with NMEATime alone, without any additional hardware? That is what was my question about in the first place. Thanks for all other suggestions, they will certainly be used in the future, but NMEATime looks like my solution for 1ms. From the NMEATime page it seems it uses bit-banging for PPS signal, possibly triggering serial interrupt directly. If that is true, it could even be better than 1 ms. (?) P. Dukic At 10:35 2.11.2009, you wrote: It depends on the IRIG card used. With a basic reader card you can sync down to 1 millisecond based on the 1 KHz IRIG-B time code. More elaborate cards have a phase locked 10 MHz oscillator on board, and software to replace the PC's RTC so time comes directly from the card. Sync to a few microseconds and lower is possible. Take a look at Symmetricom (board level products originally from Datum), and Spectracom (boards originally from Odetics via KSI). Rob Kimberley -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Predrag Dukic Sent: 31 October 2009 21:30 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B(1) sample wav file Does anybody know what is the time difference (or error) between two PC-s set this way? (I mean the difference between two PC internal RTCs). Can this method be used to sinc two sound cards, contained in two PCs some distance apart. Predrag Dukic At 17:10 31.10.2009, you wrote: There's a nice package called NMEATime which will generate IRIG-B code using your sound card. http://www.visualgps.net/NMEATime/default.htm Lots of other neat software on that site as well. I bought VisualGPS and NMEATime many moons ago. Happy tweaking. *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 31-Oct-09 at 15:50 Robert Atkinson wrote: Hi, Anybody got a .wav file of a modulated IRIG-B timecode? I just want something to do a quick test on a display. My nomal IRIG generator is buried in the garage. A simple app to drive a sound card would also do. I know at least one of the Linux NTP implementaions can do this but I'm not running Linux and don't really want to do a lot of setting up, just a quick go/no-go check. Robert G8RPI. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4560 (20091031) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m Quid Malmborg in Plano... ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4561 (20091031) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4563 (20091101) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWV Clock
Replying to my own post, there are two bits that indicate daylight saving time changes. Here's a paragraph from page 27, Lombardi, NIST Time and Frequency Services, NIST Special Publication 432, 2002 Edition: Daylight saving time (DST) and standard time (ST) information is transmitted at seconds 57 and 58. When ST is in effect, bits 57 and 58 are set to 0. When DST is in effect, bits 57 and 58 are set to 1. On the day of a change from ST to DST bit 57 changes from 0 to 1 at UTC, and bit 58 changes from 0 to 1 exactly 24 hours later. On the day of a change from DST back to ST bit 57 changes from 1 to 0 at UTC, and bit 58 changes from 1 to 0 exactly 24 hours later. http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/general/pdf/1383.pdf So it seems the HTAWI receives the bits correctly, but it does not act on them until both are the same. Some relevant articles are available: NIST Special Publication 432, 2002 Edition NIST Special Publication 250-67 WWVB RCC Recommended Practices 2009 http://tf.nist.gov/stations/hflibrary.htm Regards, Mike Monett ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] FE-5680 Frequency Settings
Anyone got info on changing frequency of DDS on FE-5680? Would like to change a 15 MHz unit to provide 2.048 MHz. Had a quick scan of previous posts but can't see anything. Thanks. Rob Kimberley ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Z38XX
Hi Ulrich, Thanks a lot for the reply still my Q is ... when you open the parameters window it is asking what is line nbr of tracked/untracked sats? and the default is line nbr 11...and sats data line nbr from 13 to sats data line to 18, but I believe if I change the line nbrI can get the correct nbr of sats tracked and not trackedbut I do not know the orig HP SW structural info..which line contains this data??. meaning which line contains the tracked sats??? I have the Z3801 GPSDO. Did you get my question?? Rgds Ernie. -Original Message- From: Ulrich Bangert df...@ulrich-bangert.de To: erniepe...@aol.com Sent: Mon, Nov 2, 2009 11:51 am Subject: AW: Z38XX Ernie, the latest version 2009-07-19 should have no more configuration concerning line numbers! Wo what do you mean by ie line nbr etc..etc / to read the correct tracked sats nbr??? there is a configuration necessary concerning the serial port operating parameters. Are you referring to that? I don't know how to set them correct for the Z3801 since I own a Z3805 but you may ask other users of the software in the time nuts group. What you can do in any case: Open the debug window and log what happening into a file for few minutes. Send me the file and I can try to diagnose whats going wrong. Best regards Ulrich -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: erniepe...@aol.com [mailto:erniepe...@aol.com] Gesendet: Montag, 2. November 2009 11:36 An: df...@ulrich-bangert.de Betreff: Z38XX Hi Ulrich, I have all the version of this program but presently using the latest update / Z38XX 2009-07-19 / for my HP Z3801 GPSDO but having a little problem Namely.. the display says about the birds ...visible 1, tracked 1, but when I view the receives status the same time it displays tracking 4 and not tracking 4.. can you please advise how to set up the Parameter page / ie line nbr etc..etc / to read the correct tracked sats nbr??? and also the EFC/SAT display shows only 1 sats... Many thanks in advance for your help. Best regards, Ernie, HG5ED. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] FS: *REDUCED* Brandywine GPS-4 Units Antennas - 2 sets available - $350ea
Hi Guys, I thoguht I'd give it one more shot here before I sent these to eBay. I am adomately against their excessive fees so I just assume pass the fees along as savings to a list member rather than pay it to eBay. I'll reduce the price to $350.00 for a Bradywine GPS-4 PLUS a complete antenna kit... SHIPPED FREE (US). I accept paypal, money orders and personal checks. PayPal please add 3%. Scott KB1FXY ssyb...@kb1fxy.us From: Scott A Sybert Sent: Sun 10/18/2009 9:32 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: FOR SALE: Brandywine GPS-4 Units Antennas - 2 sets available Hello Everyone, I have two more Brandywine GPS-4 units available with brand new Panasonic antennas and coax kits. Same price as last time... $400 for the GPS and $40 for the antenna kit. As usual, shipping is always free (US only. International shipping will be additional). I prefer personal checks or money orders but will accept paypal for an additional 3%. If anyone is interested, please send me an email off the list. Regards, Scott KB1FXY ssyb...@kb1fxy.us ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] *REDUCED* Brandywine GPS-4 Units Antennas - 2 sets available - $350ea
I apologize for the horrible spelling... How embarassing. Allow me to use spell checker this time :) From: Scott A Sybert Sent: Mon 11/2/2009 9:14 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: FS: *REDUCED* Brandywine GPS-4 Units Antennas - 2 sets available - $350ea Hi Guys, I thought I'd give it one more shot here before I sent these to eBay. I am adamantly against their excessive fees so I just assume pass the fees along as savings to a list member rather than pay it to eBay. I'll reduce the price to $350.00 for a Bradywine GPS-4 PLUS a complete antenna kit... SHIPPED FREE (US). I accept paypal, money orders and personal checks. PayPal please add 3%. Scott KB1FXY ssyb...@kb1fxy.us From: Scott A Sybert Sent: Sun 10/18/2009 9:32 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: FOR SALE: Brandywine GPS-4 Units Antennas - 2 sets available Hello Everyone, I have two more Brandywine GPS-4 units available with brand new Panasonic antennas and coax kits. Same price as last time... $400 for the GPS and $40 for the antenna kit. As usual, shipping is always free (US only. International shipping will be additional). I prefer personal checks or money orders but will accept paypal for an additional 3%. If anyone is interested, please send me an email off the list. Regards, Scott KB1FXY ssyb...@kb1fxy.us ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680 Frequency Settings
Hi Rob, Some information in Didier's manuals archive at: http://www.ko4bb.com/cgi-bin/manuals.pl?dir=05%29_GPS_Timing/FEI TTFN, Peter Vince 2009/11/2 Rob Kimberley robinkimber...@btinternet.com: Anyone got info on changing frequency of DDS on FE-5680? Would like to change a 15 MHz unit to provide 2.048 MHz. Had a quick scan of previous posts but can't see anything. Thanks. Rob Kimberley ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680 Frequency Settings
Thanks Peter! Are you going to the NPL TF Club meeting in December? I'm hoping to get down this time after missing the last two (or was it three?!) Rob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Peter Vince Sent: 02 November 2009 15:10 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680 Frequency Settings Hi Rob, Some information in Didier's manuals archive at: http://www.ko4bb.com/cgi-bin/manuals.pl?dir=05%29_GPS_Timing/FEI TTFN, Peter Vince 2009/11/2 Rob Kimberley robinkimber...@btinternet.com: Anyone got info on changing frequency of DDS on FE-5680? Would like to change a 15 MHz unit to provide 2.048 MHz. Had a quick scan of previous posts but can't see anything. Thanks. Rob Kimberley ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWV Clock
Hi Mike: Note that the way a clock checks to see of it has received the data correctly is to compare two adjacent frames and check to see that they differ by one minute. If the clock was smart it would start to listen a few minutes prior to midnight and would recognize that there was going to be a DST change at midnight. If the clock started at what it thought was midnight, but it was running a second slow then it would miss the first frame, but the next minute it would get the new frame and switch to/from DST. I think your clock is just not receiving a good enough signal. The key may be you need to mount the clock on a wall that's 90 degrees from where it is now. That's the problem I had with an atomic clock, i.e. the loopstick antenna has deep nulls and if you point the null at the transmitter . . . See: http://www.prc68.com/I/Shadow-Clock.shtml#WT5360U I like the projection clock in my bedroom. No glasses, no light needed to tell the time. Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.prc68.com Mike Monett wrote: Replying to my own post, there are two bits that indicate daylight saving time changes. Here's a paragraph from page 27, Lombardi, NIST Time and Frequency Services, NIST Special Publication 432, 2002 Edition: Daylight saving time (DST) and standard time (ST) information is transmitted at seconds 57 and 58. When ST is in effect, bits 57 and 58 are set to 0. When DST is in effect, bits 57 and 58 are set to 1. On the day of a change from ST to DST bit 57 changes from 0 to 1 at UTC, and bit 58 changes from 0 to 1 exactly 24 hours later. On the day of a change from DST back to ST bit 57 changes from 1 to 0 at UTC, and bit 58 changes from 1 to 0 exactly 24 hours later. http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/general/pdf/1383.pdf So it seems the HTAWI receives the bits correctly, but it does not act on them until both are the same. Some relevant articles are available: NIST Special Publication 432, 2002 Edition NIST Special Publication 250-67 WWVB RCC Recommended Practices 2009 http://tf.nist.gov/stations/hflibrary.htm Regards, Mike Monett ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] FE-5680 frequency change
Rob, It will depend on which version you have. I've not seen a dedicated 15MHz unit, so can't be sure which synthesis scheme it uses. If it has a dedicated fixed synthesizer, you may be out of luck. However, if (like the 1pps models) it has a DDS synthesizer, the frequency change can be done via a serial command. For details see: http://www.mail-archive.com/time-nuts@febo.com/msg13486.html http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/fei5650a/ http://www.qsl.net/zl1bpu/PRECISION/FE-5650A.htm The DDS board can be identified by comparing it with the photo at: http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/fei5650a/freq_divider.jpg Bear in mind that the photo might be the other way around from the angle you get to view it at. If you have the DDS version (it's the same in the FE-5650A and FE-5680A), you're in luck, and can program any frequency from DC to 20MHz or so. You might consider buying another dedicated unit for 2.048MHz. Bob Mokia (NHBBob on Ebay) has the 1pps versions for sale, and these are easily converted to remote frequency programming, as described in the links above. Regards, Murray Greenman ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWV Clock
Um, the time change takes place at 2 AM in the USA, springing ahead to 3 AM or falling back to 1 AM. This avoids repeating the date in the fall. Surely, other cultures don't do it differently, do they? ;-) Bill Hawkins It's widely true that the time of minimum human activity is 4:30 AM. Why not do it then? -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Brooke Clarke Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:50 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV Clock Hi Mike: Note that the way a clock checks to see of it has received the data correctly is to compare two adjacent frames and check to see that they differ by one minute. If the clock was smart it would start to listen a few minutes prior to midnight and would recognize that there was going to be a DST change at midnight. If the clock started at what it thought was midnight, but it was running a second slow then it would miss the first frame, but the next minute it would get the new frame and switch to/from DST. I think your clock is just not receiving a good enough signal. The key may be you need to mount the clock on a wall that's 90 degrees from where it is now. That's the problem I had with an atomic clock, i.e. the loopstick antenna has deep nulls and if you point the null at the transmitter . . . See: http://www.prc68.com/I/Shadow-Clock.shtml#WT5360U I like the projection clock in my bedroom. No glasses, no light needed to tell the time. Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.prc68.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWV Clock
Hi Bill: My bad. 2 am is when the bars close. Any change prior to then would be a problem. After 2 pm there's not many who care. Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.prc68.com Bill Hawkins wrote: Um, the time change takes place at 2 AM in the USA, springing ahead to 3 AM or falling back to 1 AM. This avoids repeating the date in the fall. Surely, other cultures don't do it differently, do they? ;-) Bill Hawkins It's widely true that the time of minimum human activity is 4:30 AM. Why not do it then? -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Brooke Clarke Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:50 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV Clock Hi Mike: Note that the way a clock checks to see of it has received the data correctly is to compare two adjacent frames and check to see that they differ by one minute. If the clock was smart it would start to listen a few minutes prior to midnight and would recognize that there was going to be a DST change at midnight. If the clock started at what it thought was midnight, but it was running a second slow then it would miss the first frame, but the next minute it would get the new frame and switch to/from DST. I think your clock is just not receiving a good enough signal. The key may be you need to mount the clock on a wall that's 90 degrees from where it is now. That's the problem I had with an atomic clock, i.e. the loopstick antenna has deep nulls and if you point the null at the transmitter . . . See: http://www.prc68.com/I/Shadow-Clock.shtml#WT5360U I like the projection clock in my bedroom. No glasses, no light needed to tell the time. Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.prc68.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWV Clock
Brooke Clarke bro...@pacific.net wrote: Hi Mike: Note that the way a clock checks to see of it has received the data correctly is to compare two adjacent frames and check to see that they differ by one minute. If the clock was smart it would start to listen a few minutes prior to midnight and would recognize that there was going to be a DST change at midnight. If the clock started at what it thought was midnight, but it was running a second slow then it would miss the first frame, but the next minute it would get the new frame and switch to/from DST. I think your clock is just not receiving a good enough signal. The key may be you need to mount the clock on a wall that's 90 degrees from where it is now. That's the problem I had with an atomic clock, ie the loopstick antenna has deep nulls and if you point the null at the transmitter . . . See: http://www.prc68.com/I/Shadow-Clock.shtml#WT5360U I like the projection clock in my bedroom. No glasses, no light needed to tell the time. Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.prc68.com Hi Brooke, Thanks for the note. As the paragraph in tech pub 432 says, On the day of a change from ST to DST bit 57 changes from 0 to 1 at UTC, and bit 58 changes from 0 to 1 exactly 24 hours later. On the day of a change from DST back to ST bit 57 changes from 1 to 0 at UTC, and bit 58 changes from 1 to 0 exactly 24 hours later. http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/general/pdf/1383.pdf As you can see, the first bit (57) changes at GMT. However, Eastern Standard Time starts 5 hours later, so all the radios in the US and Canada already know the bit is set when they start updating at their local midnight. The problem is this particular brand seems to ignore bit 57, and only pays attention to bit 58. The clocks are mounted in two buildings several blocks apart. I found the optimum location for each by forcing a manual synchronization and picked the spot that gave the fastest sync. The bearing to Fort Collins is around 270 degrees. Both walls run about 225 degrees, or about 45 degrees from the desired bearing. Here is a picture of a loop with the desired orientation: http://www.rescueelectronics.com/images/WWVB_Antenna_Diagram2.jpg So the actual orientation is not ideal, but the loop has a much flatter radiation pattern with a sharper and narrower null than shown above, and the signal loss is not as bad as you might expect. As I mentioned earlier, this brand has excellent sensitivity, and will usually synchronize manually starting around 5:00pm. The proof is the clocks usually synchronize on the first attempt at midnight, so improving the signal strength would not change the outcome. Since the clocks are about 45 degrees from full broadside, changing the orientation by 90 degrees would not change the signal strength. They would still be 45 degrees off the desired bearing. But they run fine and keep perfect time. Thanks for the note on your projection clock. I have been looking for a silent WWVB clock with a lighted face for a long time, but had no luck. The WT-5360U looks like the perfect solution. I'll get one on order right away. Best Regards, Mike Monett ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680 frequency change
Murray, Many thanks! Rob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Murray Greenman Sent: 02 November 2009 18:19 To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] FE-5680 frequency change Rob, It will depend on which version you have. I've not seen a dedicated 15MHz unit, so can't be sure which synthesis scheme it uses. If it has a dedicated fixed synthesizer, you may be out of luck. However, if (like the 1pps models) it has a DDS synthesizer, the frequency change can be done via a serial command. For details see: http://www.mail-archive.com/time-nuts@febo.com/msg13486.html http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/fei5650a/ http://www.qsl.net/zl1bpu/PRECISION/FE-5650A.htm The DDS board can be identified by comparing it with the photo at: http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/fei5650a/freq_divider.jpg Bear in mind that the photo might be the other way around from the angle you get to view it at. If you have the DDS version (it's the same in the FE-5650A and FE-5680A), you're in luck, and can program any frequency from DC to 20MHz or so. You might consider buying another dedicated unit for 2.048MHz. Bob Mokia (NHBBob on Ebay) has the 1pps versions for sale, and these are easily converted to remote frequency programming, as described in the links above. Regards, Murray Greenman ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Fwd: [VintageSS] BC221 Frequency Meter
Here is something for a time nuts WWII setup... 73, Don, W4WJ From: bcarl...@cfl.rr.com To: usedhamg...@yahoogroups.com, usedradioequipm...@yahoogroups.com, vintag...@yahoogroups.com Sent: 11/2/2009 4:10:22 A.M. Central Standard Time Subj: [VintageSS] BC221 Frequency Meter FOR SALE: BC221 Frequency Meter Here is a standard unmodified BC-221 Frequency Meter and it comes with the book. Beautifully built military spec equipment with a dial drive and tuning capacitor that are ideal for a project like a VFO or a remote VFO or even a homebrew receiver or transceiver. Appearance is excellent inside. There is minor surface rust on the catches on the outside of the case, but it's nothing serious at all. For its age this instrument is in superior condition compared to most of these that I have seen. Available for $49.00 plus shipping. Pictures and details at: _http://www.af4k.http://www.htt_ (http://www.af4k.com/radios.htm) 73 - Brian Carling, AF4K [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __._,_.___ _Messages in this topic _ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VintageSS/message/109;_ylc=X3oDMTMzcmE1czg4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE3OTM4NTM2BGdycHNwSWQDMTc wNTA2MzEwOARtc2dJZAMxMDkEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjU3MTU2NjE2BHRwY0l kAzEwOQ--) (1) _Reply (via web post) _ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VintageSS/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwZ2kydHR1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE3OTM4NTM2BGdycHNwS WQDMTcwNTA2MzEwOARtc2dJZAMxMDkEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjU3MTU2NjE2? act=replymessageNum=109) | _Start a new topic _ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VintageSS/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmaHJhcHU2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE3OTM4NTM 2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzEwOARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEyNTcxNTY2MTY-) _Messages_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VintageSS/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJmbmlvY281BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE3OTM4NTM2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzEwOARzZWMDZn RyBHNsawNtc2dzBHN0aW1lAzEyNTcxNTY2MTY-) | _Files_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VintageSS/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJnZmtmcmkzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE3OTM4 NTM2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzEwOARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNmaWxlcwRzdGltZQMxMjU3MTU2NjE2 ) | _Photos_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VintageSS/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJmbWFjN2k2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE3OTM4NTM2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzEwOARzZWMD ZnRyBHNsawNwaG90BHN0aW1lAzEyNTcxNTY2MTY-) | _Links_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VintageSS/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJnamJoZnA1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE3OT M4NTM2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzEwOARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNsaW5rcwRzdGltZQMxMjU3MTU2Nj E2) | _Database_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VintageSS/database;_ylc=X3oDMTJkdGFscTJwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE3OTM4NTM2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzEwOA RzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNkYgRzdGltZQMxMjU3MTU2NjE2) | _Polls_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VintageSS/polls;_ylc=X3oDMTJnOWR2dW9oBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE3 OTM4NTM2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzEwOARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNwb2xscwRzdGltZQMxMjU3MTU2 NjE2) | _Members_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VintageSS/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmbG1vNDcyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE3OTM4NTM2BGdycHNwSWQD MTcwNTA2MzEwOARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEyNTcxNTY2MTY-) | _Calendar_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VintageSS/calendar;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMWE0ZTQzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BG dycElkAzE3OTM4NTM2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzEwOARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNjYWwEc3RpbWUDMT I1NzE1NjYxNg--) ...dedicated to those fine radios full of early 3 legged fuses... MARKETPLACE _Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their families, for the world and for each other_ (http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14kp2amr8/M=493064.12016295.13271503.10835568/D=groups/S=1705063108:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1257 163816/L=/B=nfnNGkPDhFA-/J=1257156616179142/K=g_fqMEU7CzScCjlj.irAgw/A=56973 81/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/*http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/) (http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcHR1b3VyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE3OTM4NTM2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzEwOARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTI1NzE1NjYx Ng--) _Change settings via the Web_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VintageSS/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJnOWNrMzMzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE3OTM4NTM2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNT A2MzEwOARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNzdG5ncwRzdGltZQMxMjU3MTU2NjE2) (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: _Switch delivery to Daily Digest_ (mailto:vintagess-dig...@yahoogroups.com?subject=email Delivery: Digest) | _Switch format to Traditional_ (mailto:vintagess-traditio...@yahoogroups.com?subject=change Delivery Format: Traditional) _Visit Your Group _ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VintageSS;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMWZiaTFrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE3OTM4NTM2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzEwOARzZWMDZ nRyBHNsawNocGYEc3RpbWUDMTI1NzE1NjYxNg--) | _Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use _ (http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/) | _Unsubscribe _ (mailto:vintagess-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com?subject=) Recent Activity _Visit Your Group _
Re: [time-nuts] Fwd: [VintageSS] BC221 Frequency Meter
A BC-221 is a remarkable piece of hardware. Among other things it can be used either as a source (oscillator) or measuring instrument (heterodyne frequency meter). -John == Here is something for a time nuts WWII setup... 73, Don, W4WJ From: bcarl...@cfl.rr.com To: usedhamg...@yahoogroups.com, usedradioequipm...@yahoogroups.com, vintag...@yahoogroups.com Sent: 11/2/2009 4:10:22 A.M. Central Standard Time Subj: [VintageSS] BC221 Frequency Meter FOR SALE: BC221 Frequency Meter Here is a standard unmodified BC-221 Frequency Meter and it comes with the book. Beautifully built military spec equipment with a dial drive and tuning capacitor that are ideal for a project like a VFO or a remote VFO or even a homebrew receiver or transceiver. Appearance is excellent inside. There is minor surface rust on the catches on the outside of the case, but it's nothing serious at all. For its age this instrument is in superior condition compared to most of these that I have seen. Available for $49.00 plus shipping. Pictures and details at: _http://www.af4k.http://www.htt_ (http://www.af4k.com/radios.htm) 73 - Brian Carling, AF4K ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
