Re: [time-nuts] Form factor
I love those Hammond boxes until I have to pay the bill. The one for my n2pk VNA was about $28. But one of those as the primary enclosure with input boards and output boards that plug into a main board would be feasable if a tad expensive. Some modules lend themselves to plugins on a main board (output modules for example) while things that need to chain like input modules ( think pre amp followed by prescaler followed by trigger sense) don't. On Dec 21, 2010, at 1:29 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: >>> Eurocard has been one suggestion as a form factor. While I personally >>> love Eurocard, the boards and connectors are expensive. >>> >>> Stackble connectors are a pain in assembly. >>> >>> Backplanes are inherently evil at high speeds. >>> >>> Plugging everything into one main board makes that a critical design >>> item and that much harder to upgrade. > > I agree with all of the above. > > I think what we want is simply a mechanical standard. Something that > will simply hold everything in place. > > What if every module was in it's own metal box? Each box has a > forward or "user facing" panel that is tall and narrow and contains > things like input jacks and status LEDs and a rear facing panel that > is for power and module to module interconnect.Many of the > modules, I assume would work as stand alone gadgets (a trigger is a > usful device all by it self) To assemble a system you place all the > boxes like books on a shelf. Maybe even some book end so they don't > fall over. But you might build a wood cabinet, put a handle on top > and metal bumpers on the corners. The wood cabinet would house the > modules and also the power supply and the rats nest of interconnect > wiresSo those who like to be neat can make nice wood cases and the > rest of us can have a working system made of a half dozen boxea and > cales all over the work bench > > Here is an example of a module box > http://www.hammondmfg.com/pdf/1455L1601.pdf > > We would not have to specify a height or length, only the width needs > to be uniform. But in our case the width becomes height when you turn > them on edge. Some modules might need two PCBs and a wider box. We > should make a list of connectors to be used for power and so on for > the rear pannel > > I had previously suggested about the same thing but only to make the > box the same size as a disk drive so we could use common existing > racks. I'd still prefer that but maybe these hammond boxes are more > popular > > > -- > = > Chris Albertson > Redondo Beach, California > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Form factor
>> Eurocard has been one suggestion as a form factor. While I personally >> love Eurocard, the boards and connectors are expensive. >> >> Stackble connectors are a pain in assembly. >> >> Backplanes are inherently evil at high speeds. >> >> Plugging everything into one main board makes that a critical design >> item and that much harder to upgrade. I agree with all of the above. I think what we want is simply a mechanical standard. Something that will simply hold everything in place. What if every module was in it's own metal box? Each box has a forward or "user facing" panel that is tall and narrow and contains things like input jacks and status LEDs and a rear facing panel that is for power and module to module interconnect.Many of the modules, I assume would work as stand alone gadgets (a trigger is a usful device all by it self) To assemble a system you place all the boxes like books on a shelf. Maybe even some book end so they don't fall over. But you might build a wood cabinet, put a handle on top and metal bumpers on the corners. The wood cabinet would house the modules and also the power supply and the rats nest of interconnect wiresSo those who like to be neat can make nice wood cases and the rest of us can have a working system made of a half dozen boxea and cales all over the work bench Here is an example of a module box http://www.hammondmfg.com/pdf/1455L1601.pdf We would not have to specify a height or length, only the width needs to be uniform. But in our case the width becomes height when you turn them on edge. Some modules might need two PCBs and a wider box. We should make a list of connectors to be used for power and so on for the rear pannel I had previously suggested about the same thing but only to make the box the same size as a disk drive so we could use common existing racks. I'd still prefer that but maybe these hammond boxes are more popular -- = Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ublox GPS board
On 12/20/2010 05:02 PM, John Green wrote: I recently bought 4 older UBLOX GPS boards on eBay for $15 with free shipping. I hooked one up to my 1992 and comparing it with the Z3801, I am seeing it jump all over the place. I am using the 10 MHz output from the 3801 to start and the 1 PPS from the UBLOX to stop. I will have to bring in a TBolt just to verify the test set up. Has anyone here ever made any measurements on the UBLOX TIM-LF-0-000? These are not timing grade, by the way. The spec. sheet says the accuracy of the time pulse is 50 nSec. If that is +/- 50, then what I am seeing might be OK. I would let the low-frequency PPS act as start and the 10 MHz as stop, unless you want to measure the PPSes directly. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Form factor
Another (possibly bad) option is the old 22/44 pin .156" spacing card bus. I don't know the official name of it, but there were many many prototype cards and backplanes available for it in the day. Yet another option would be to build these to fit in an existing instrumentation chassis like the Tektronix 500/5000 series. That gives you a predefined backplane, a form factor for cards, enclosures and chassis available in several sizes with well regulated power supplies, and perhaps additional audience. On Dec 20, 11:14 pm, Bob wrote: > There has been some discussion about card form factor. > > The first question is do we design around a backplane, a stackable > module form, or pick one module as the mainboard and plug everything > into that. > > Eurocard has been one suggestion as a form factor. While I personally > love Eurocard, the boards and connectors are expensive. > > Stackble connectors are a pain in assembly. > > Backplanes are inherently evil at high speeds. > > Plugging everything into one main board makes that a critical design > item and that much harder to upgrade. > > Discuss. :) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Frequency counter recommendation
Comments inline. On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 11:17 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: > I looked. I think we should keep the design goals modest for a first > revision. Shoot for a spec that can be hand built on perf board. So > I'd relax those numbers by a factor of 1000. The top frequency is in > Mhz, not Ghz and the time resolution closer to ns than ps. It's good > to have a cheap option. Many people are happy with an FCC1 Try for > the next step after that with a goal of actually matching the state of > the art in steps. > > My initial thinking was to be better than a pictic ii, preferably on par with, or better than a 5370. I'm not sure you can do that on perfboard. I suppose if the speed is kept low it can be done that way. Others have pointed out (offline) 20Ghz isn't reasonabe with a decent noise figure or prescalers. What do people think a reasonable number is? What about resolution? I'd like to get better than a ns, preferably a lot better. Why no through holes? I don't see the point of banishing them. I to > agree with the rest. SMT that is hand solderable by a skilled tech > but now reflow ovens or solder past masks should be required . You > might place a limit on component size too like 0.5mm lead pitch or > whatever is reasonable. > > I've been prototyping a lot of late and restricting the number of through holes makes the job much much easier and quicker. No other real reason. I didn't place a limit on the lead pitch because a) I felt that limited the component selection and b) pretty much even the finest pitch can be hand assembled with care, solder wick, and 20x magnification. But if folks are very against it, it can go in the 'desired qualities' list. My only fear is the limit it might put on critical parts like a FPGA. Mechanical assy is going to be a killer. Let's start with overall form factor. Rack mount or bench format? If rack mount, 1U or more? Commercial project enclosure (ala the VNA Hammond box) or do we take an existing form factor like a disk drive as you suggest. Heck, if we go with a disk drive size, it could be built/slid into anyone's lab PC case and use ribbon cable as a back plane... 1/2 :) I like 1U because it matches up with the rest of the test equipment on the bench and it gives it a professional feel. And there are many many surplus 1U cases out there with decent +/-12vdc,+5vdc (even some with 3.3vdc) power supplies. Bob > On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 6:20 PM, Bob Bownes wrote: > > Well said Chris. Take a look at the initial spec in the OpenCounter Gogle > > group and tell me what you think with respect to your item #1. I think > the > > core counter is going to be the really difficult part of the module list. > > > > Item #2 is going to be a tough one methinks. I love Eurocard, but, as you > > say, it is very expensive, if only for the connectors. In cases like this > > I'm a fan of either repurposing commercially available connectors (PCI > and > > memory DIMMS are two I have used in the past) because they can be a) > > purchased off the shelf, b) are manufactured in enough volume to make > cheap, > > and c) are common enough that the really cheap amongst us can get them > off > > of scrap boards someplace for little or nothing. The N2PK VNA is built to > > fit into a particular HAmmond enclosure that I like but again, there are > > many options. My feeling is that the enclosure should not dictate any > > functional design decisions. > > > > #3 - I've created a group and appointed myself benevolent dictator. We > can > > discuss things, propose designs or design criteria, call for a concensus, > > accept, and draft volunteers to design that section to the defined spec. > If > > there are multiple competing designs, so much the better, as long as we > all > > agree on the interfaces. Sound like a process? Can you tell I've done > this > > once or twice? :) > > > > Step one will be to agree on the overall functional spec. If we get > enough > > participants, I'd like to nail that down by mid January. The next step is > to > > agree on the interfaces between the modules. Same process, discuss, > propose, > > draft, get concensus, close and move on. > > Then we get folks working on the individual modules. > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Chris Albertson > > wrote: > > > >> On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Dave M > wrote: > >> > > >> .. never got off the launchpad because of their inability to come to > >> > consensus on a set of features. I had to conclude that too many cooks > >> > spoiled the broth. Everyone that had input to the project was > unwilling > >> to > >> > yield on anyone else's ideas. Hopefully, our project won't degrade > into > >> > another such fiasco. > >> > >> > >> THAT is the number one problem to solve. Technical issues are easy > >> > >> I think the solution is to > >> (1) chop the project up into small enough parts, each on it's own PCB > >> so that each part is "easy" and has some wider user o
Re: [time-nuts] Frequency counter recommendation
I looked. I think we should keep the design goals modest for a first revision. Shoot for a spec that can be hand built on perf board. So I'd relax those numbers by a factor of 1000. The top frequency is in Mhz, not Ghz and the time resolution closer to ns than ps. It's good to have a cheap option. Many people are happy with an FCC1 Try for the next step after that with a goal of actually matching the state of the art in steps. Why no through holes? I don't see the point of banishing them. I to agree with the rest. SMT that is hand solderable by a skilled tech but now reflow ovens or solder past masks should be required . You might place a limit on component size too like 0.5mm lead pitch or whatever is reasonable. Mechanical part is not easy. Need to re-purpose some mass produced chassis. That keeps leading me back to computer hard drives. What if you made the PCB the same size as a disk drive and then got some 1" x 1/4" aluminum L extrusion and screwed some of the aluminum around three sides of the PCB. low-tech metal work but they might slide into a disk drive enclosure that is made to house SATA drives. These enclosures come in any size for one drive all the way up to 6 foot racks. If yu also place a aluminum L across the short side you have space for conectors and switches On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 6:20 PM, Bob Bownes wrote: > Well said Chris. Take a look at the initial spec in the OpenCounter Gogle > group and tell me what you think with respect to your item #1. I think the > core counter is going to be the really difficult part of the module list. > > Item #2 is going to be a tough one methinks. I love Eurocard, but, as you > say, it is very expensive, if only for the connectors. In cases like this > I'm a fan of either repurposing commercially available connectors (PCI and > memory DIMMS are two I have used in the past) because they can be a) > purchased off the shelf, b) are manufactured in enough volume to make cheap, > and c) are common enough that the really cheap amongst us can get them off > of scrap boards someplace for little or nothing. The N2PK VNA is built to > fit into a particular HAmmond enclosure that I like but again, there are > many options. My feeling is that the enclosure should not dictate any > functional design decisions. > > #3 - I've created a group and appointed myself benevolent dictator. We can > discuss things, propose designs or design criteria, call for a concensus, > accept, and draft volunteers to design that section to the defined spec. If > there are multiple competing designs, so much the better, as long as we all > agree on the interfaces. Sound like a process? Can you tell I've done this > once or twice? :) > > Step one will be to agree on the overall functional spec. If we get enough > participants, I'd like to nail that down by mid January. The next step is to > agree on the interfaces between the modules. Same process, discuss, propose, > draft, get concensus, close and move on. > Then we get folks working on the individual modules. > > > On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Chris Albertson > wrote: > >> On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Dave M wrote: >> > >> .. never got off the launchpad because of their inability to come to >> > consensus on a set of features. I had to conclude that too many cooks >> > spoiled the broth. Everyone that had input to the project was unwilling >> to >> > yield on anyone else's ideas. Hopefully, our project won't degrade into >> > another such fiasco. >> >> >> THAT is the number one problem to solve. Technical issues are easy >> >> I think the solution is to >> (1) chop the project up into small enough parts, each on it's own PCB >> so that each part is "easy" and has some wider user outside the >> project. >> (2) Find a mechanical standard so all the PCBs can be mounted in some >> kind of chassis. I'm thinking now that maybe a 160-3U Eurocard would >> be about right size. But the parts are expensive. >> (3) Need some sort of design process that allows everyone to >> contribute. And everyone can. Projects always are lacking technical >> writers and quality control people >> >> Of those a "process" and "mechanical standard", I think are the >> hardest. We always give managers a hard time but that is what is >> needed. The person who will make this happen will be a manager and >> organizer maybe not a designer. >> >> >> -- >> = >> Chris Albertson >> Redondo Beach, California >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- = Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California __
Re: [time-nuts] Frequency counter recommendation
Lol. Ok. You're added to the group. I've started a topic on form factor. Bob On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 10:45 PM, Don Latham wrote: > Hi benevolent dictator. Please not the @#$%^& Eurocard. As you say, the > connectors and backplane cost more than the stuff on the cards (except > maybe the stuff from Hittite :-). Rather a stack of cards with .1 in. > spacing .025 pins? That way, we can put the stack in any housing we want. > If a suitable processor card (e.g. propeller or Arduino) is selected, > daughterboards can be stacked on that. > Just thinkin'. I've joined the google group. > Best, > Don > > Bob Bownes > > Well said Chris. Take a look at the initial spec in the OpenCounter Gogle > > group and tell me what you think with respect to your item #1. I think > the > > core counter is going to be the really difficult part of the module list. > > > > Item #2 is going to be a tough one methinks. I love Eurocard, but, as you > > say, it is very expensive, if only for the connectors. In cases like this > > I'm a fan of either repurposing commercially available connectors (PCI > and > > memory DIMMS are two I have used in the past) because they can be a) > > purchased off the shelf, b) are manufactured in enough volume to make > > cheap, > > and c) are common enough that the really cheap amongst us can get them > off > > of scrap boards someplace for little or nothing. The N2PK VNA is built to > > fit into a particular HAmmond enclosure that I like but again, there are > > many options. My feeling is that the enclosure should not dictate any > > functional design decisions. > > > > #3 - I've created a group and appointed myself benevolent dictator. We > can > > discuss things, propose designs or design criteria, call for a concensus, > > accept, and draft volunteers to design that section to the defined spec. > > If > > there are multiple competing designs, so much the better, as long as we > > all > > agree on the interfaces. Sound like a process? Can you tell I've done > this > > once or twice? :) > > > > Step one will be to agree on the overall functional spec. If we get > enough > > participants, I'd like to nail that down by mid January. The next step is > > to > > agree on the interfaces between the modules. Same process, discuss, > > propose, > > draft, get concensus, close and move on. > > Then we get folks working on the individual modules. > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Chris Albertson > > wrote: > > > >> On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Dave M > wrote: > >> > > >> .. never got off the launchpad because of their inability to come to > >> > consensus on a set of features. I had to conclude that too many cooks > >> > spoiled the broth. Everyone that had input to the project was > >> unwilling > >> to > >> > yield on anyone else's ideas. Hopefully, our project won't degrade > >> into > >> > another such fiasco. > >> > >> > >> THAT is the number one problem to solve. Technical issues are easy > >> > >> I think the solution is to > >> (1) chop the project up into small enough parts, each on it's own PCB > >> so that each part is "easy" and has some wider user outside the > >> project. > >> (2) Find a mechanical standard so all the PCBs can be mounted in some > >> kind of chassis. I'm thinking now that maybe a 160-3U Eurocard would > >> be about right size. But the parts are expensive. > >> (3) Need some sort of design process that allows everyone to > >> contribute. And everyone can. Projects always are lacking technical > >> writers and quality control people > >> > >> Of those a "process" and "mechanical standard", I think are the > >> hardest. We always give managers a hard time but that is what is > >> needed. The person who will make this happen will be a manager and > >> organizer maybe not a designer. > >> > >> > >> -- > >> = > >> Chris Albertson > >> Redondo Beach, California > >> > >> ___ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to > >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > -- > "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are > as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind." > R. Bacon > "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it." > Ghost in the Shell > > > Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL > Six Mile Systems LLP > 17850 Six Mile Road > POB 134 > Huson, MT, 59846 > VOX 406-626-4304 > www.lightningforensics.com > www.sixmilesystems.com > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > _
Re: [time-nuts] Frequency counter recommendation
Hi benevolent dictator. Please not the @#$%^& Eurocard. As you say, the connectors and backplane cost more than the stuff on the cards (except maybe the stuff from Hittite :-). Rather a stack of cards with .1 in. spacing .025 pins? That way, we can put the stack in any housing we want. If a suitable processor card (e.g. propeller or Arduino) is selected, daughterboards can be stacked on that. Just thinkin'. I've joined the google group. Best, Don Bob Bownes > Well said Chris. Take a look at the initial spec in the OpenCounter Gogle > group and tell me what you think with respect to your item #1. I think the > core counter is going to be the really difficult part of the module list. > > Item #2 is going to be a tough one methinks. I love Eurocard, but, as you > say, it is very expensive, if only for the connectors. In cases like this > I'm a fan of either repurposing commercially available connectors (PCI and > memory DIMMS are two I have used in the past) because they can be a) > purchased off the shelf, b) are manufactured in enough volume to make > cheap, > and c) are common enough that the really cheap amongst us can get them off > of scrap boards someplace for little or nothing. The N2PK VNA is built to > fit into a particular HAmmond enclosure that I like but again, there are > many options. My feeling is that the enclosure should not dictate any > functional design decisions. > > #3 - I've created a group and appointed myself benevolent dictator. We can > discuss things, propose designs or design criteria, call for a concensus, > accept, and draft volunteers to design that section to the defined spec. > If > there are multiple competing designs, so much the better, as long as we > all > agree on the interfaces. Sound like a process? Can you tell I've done this > once or twice? :) > > Step one will be to agree on the overall functional spec. If we get enough > participants, I'd like to nail that down by mid January. The next step is > to > agree on the interfaces between the modules. Same process, discuss, > propose, > draft, get concensus, close and move on. > Then we get folks working on the individual modules. > > > On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Chris Albertson > wrote: > >> On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Dave M wrote: >> > >> .. never got off the launchpad because of their inability to come to >> > consensus on a set of features. I had to conclude that too many cooks >> > spoiled the broth. Everyone that had input to the project was >> unwilling >> to >> > yield on anyone else's ideas. Hopefully, our project won't degrade >> into >> > another such fiasco. >> >> >> THAT is the number one problem to solve. Technical issues are easy >> >> I think the solution is to >> (1) chop the project up into small enough parts, each on it's own PCB >> so that each part is "easy" and has some wider user outside the >> project. >> (2) Find a mechanical standard so all the PCBs can be mounted in some >> kind of chassis. I'm thinking now that maybe a 160-3U Eurocard would >> be about right size. But the parts are expensive. >> (3) Need some sort of design process that allows everyone to >> contribute. And everyone can. Projects always are lacking technical >> writers and quality control people >> >> Of those a "process" and "mechanical standard", I think are the >> hardest. We always give managers a hard time but that is what is >> needed. The person who will make this happen will be a manager and >> organizer maybe not a designer. >> >> >> -- >> = >> Chris Albertson >> Redondo Beach, California >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind." R. Bacon "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it." Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Frequency counter recommendation
Well said Chris. Take a look at the initial spec in the OpenCounter Gogle group and tell me what you think with respect to your item #1. I think the core counter is going to be the really difficult part of the module list. Item #2 is going to be a tough one methinks. I love Eurocard, but, as you say, it is very expensive, if only for the connectors. In cases like this I'm a fan of either repurposing commercially available connectors (PCI and memory DIMMS are two I have used in the past) because they can be a) purchased off the shelf, b) are manufactured in enough volume to make cheap, and c) are common enough that the really cheap amongst us can get them off of scrap boards someplace for little or nothing. The N2PK VNA is built to fit into a particular HAmmond enclosure that I like but again, there are many options. My feeling is that the enclosure should not dictate any functional design decisions. #3 - I've created a group and appointed myself benevolent dictator. We can discuss things, propose designs or design criteria, call for a concensus, accept, and draft volunteers to design that section to the defined spec. If there are multiple competing designs, so much the better, as long as we all agree on the interfaces. Sound like a process? Can you tell I've done this once or twice? :) Step one will be to agree on the overall functional spec. If we get enough participants, I'd like to nail that down by mid January. The next step is to agree on the interfaces between the modules. Same process, discuss, propose, draft, get concensus, close and move on. Then we get folks working on the individual modules. On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: > On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Dave M wrote: > > > .. never got off the launchpad because of their inability to come to > > consensus on a set of features. I had to conclude that too many cooks > > spoiled the broth. Everyone that had input to the project was unwilling > to > > yield on anyone else's ideas. Hopefully, our project won't degrade into > > another such fiasco. > > > THAT is the number one problem to solve. Technical issues are easy > > I think the solution is to > (1) chop the project up into small enough parts, each on it's own PCB > so that each part is "easy" and has some wider user outside the > project. > (2) Find a mechanical standard so all the PCBs can be mounted in some > kind of chassis. I'm thinking now that maybe a 160-3U Eurocard would > be about right size. But the parts are expensive. > (3) Need some sort of design process that allows everyone to > contribute. And everyone can. Projects always are lacking technical > writers and quality control people > > Of those a "process" and "mechanical standard", I think are the > hardest. We always give managers a hard time but that is what is > needed. The person who will make this happen will be a manager and > organizer maybe not a designer. > > > -- > = > Chris Albertson > Redondo Beach, California > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Frequency counter recommendation
* *Interesting. There are some Hittite D type flip flips that spec out at 13Ghz and 18-22ps rise/fall times with 'deterministic jitter' of 2ps, and a T type that tops out @26Ghz. Not cheap I'm sure, but we shall see. I've posted a preliminary specification on the Open Counter google group. The goals are ambitious and I have no clue how to meet some of them, but I'm sure someone will have an opinion. :) http://groups.google.com/group/opencounter?lnk=srg&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 Take a look, shoot some holes in it, figure out how to get it accomplished, accept a module to design. I'm volunteering to be the project manager and design contributor. I'll make some totalitarian, fascist decisions too. :) Bob ** On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 8:18 PM, Richard H McCorkle wrote: > Ho Ho Ho, > > Tis the season once again for giving and I wrote this up to give some > suggestions to the discussion. The PICTIC II was a spin-off of a GPSDO > front end designed specifically for low cost, low parts count, amateur > construction, and 1ns resolution to equal the performance of a modern > GPS receiver. It was intended for long term monitoring of a frequency > standard against GPS to free up your commercial counter for other uses. > I made the design and code public to educate others in the basics of > interpolating counter design with the hope that they would become > inspired to improve the design further. There is a case of diminishing > returns trying to achieve higher TIC resolution using faster clock > rates. A 1 GHz timebase only provides 1ns resolution, so some form of > interpolation is generally required for TIC resolutions better than > 1ns. > The current discussion on counter requirements is very educational > as I went through a similar process before adapting the GPSDO front > end to a stand-alone project. Most users have a 10 MHz source available > so this was selected as the default timebase. When it was developed the > AC CMOS family was chosen as the successor to the HC family with the > idea that later devices would become available with similar pin-outs, > but within a year of its design the AC175 became unobtanium in a DIP > package illustrating the obsolescence problem. The PIC solution may > not be well liked by many members here but versions of the PIC should > be available for many years to come and the assembly code can easily > be ported to later devices as the older ones become obsolete. With an > external prescaler reducing the clock into the PIC to a rate below > 16.6 MHz all the other counter functions can be implemented within > the PIC for as many digits as required. The PIC includes a serial > UART that can be converted to RS422 or RS-232 to feed a USB dongle > or LAN adapter, and the PIC TX/RX lines can be optically coupled to > feed the interface device as required. > The PICTIC II was modeled after the SR620 counter but simplified > to meet the less stringent 1ns requirement for GPS monitoring and to > reduce the size and cost. The principles of the PICTIC design can be > applied to a higher resolution counter with the major issues being > switching speed, noise, and the interpolator used. Testing has shown > the original PICTIC, the PICTIC II, and the PICTIC+ (12-bit ADC) > versions all provide roughly the same 650ps resolution regardless > of the timebase rate used. This implies the actual resolution is > primarily limited by the switching speed of the AC series CMOS logic > used in the front-end and the noise produced. The AC74 D-F/F has > propagation delays in the 3.5 to 10ns range so achieving 1ns TIC > resolution using AC series logic is pushing its limit. > If 100ps TIC resolution is desired the front-end logic and prescaler > can be changed to ECL, a faster timebase can be used, and an ACAM > TDC-GPX can be used for the interpolator. Going to ECL requires split > supplies increasing the cost, but if we are talking a target cost of > $750 instead of the original $50 target, going to ECL logic with > ECL-TTL converters feeding the PIC, using dual supplies, and adding > a $30 interpolator are no longer issues with the higher target cost. > Once the decision is made to use ECL logic for the prescaler and > front-end you have lower signal levels with balanced clock and data > lines to reduce the noise, and the MC100EL51 D-F/F propagation > delays are in the 385 – 565ps range for 10x or better resolution. > The Wavecrest DTS-2075 uses a similar front end implemented in ECL > and the patent document http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6226231.pdf > provides sufficient detail to duplicate their interpolators and > front-end for the two channels required. This can get you in the > area of 10ps resolution with the potential of slightly better if > their 14-bit ADC is replaced with a 16-bit ADC. Currently this > seems to be the state of the art in commercial designs so further > improvement beyond this will be a challenge only a dedicated > Time-Nut can appreciate. > The Wavecrest front end and interp
Re: [time-nuts] Loran?
Interesting Just barely I may be seeing several chains on the east coast of the US near Boston. I am using a austron 2100 and a 2100F. Definitely see it trying to lock and its does go into settle mode. But I am afraid I may have some nasty switching power supply of some sort nearby. I see a bursting noise signal semi synchronous at 100 KC. Never seen this before. I seem to see 9007 and 6731 the best. 7499 nothing and would say 7001 quite weak. May have to go to the older Austron 2000c and take a look. That gives me much more flexibility in control to confirm that I can see the signals. Antenna is a Loran preamplified antenna (No idea the model hamfest stuff) with a fiber glass whip 7' tall wound with hundreds of turns of #26 gauge wire as a single layer. Approx 6 ft off the ground. Regards Paul WB8TSL 2010/12/20 paul swed > Thanks Poul will do its long enough past sunset to start hunting. > > On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > >> In message >> >, >> paul >> swed writes: >> >> >Well to be honest when I typed loran it was simply because I felt like >> it. >> >It was more important to communicate the fact that I couldn't here and >> >european stations in the northeast us. Thats all that mattered. Caps or >> >lowercase simply no longer matters to me on the dead us service. >> >So getting back at it I will fire up a different antenna and preamp and >> give >> >it one more shot. >> >> Make sure you listen on the correct GRI's, some tables still list the >> long abandoned 3-digit USCG chains, rather than the 4-digit NELS chains: >> >>Eiği, GRI=9007 >>Lessay, GRI=6731 >>Sylt, GRI=7499 >>Værlandet, GRI=7001 >> >> For what it's worth, I have never been able to more than barely detect >> the 9960 chain from here in Denmark, and that was only after a major >> DSP exercise... >> >> Poul-Henning >> >> -- >> Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 >> p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 >> FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe >> Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by >> incompetence. >> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Frequency counter recommendation
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Dave M wrote: > .. never got off the launchpad because of their inability to come to > consensus on a set of features. I had to conclude that too many cooks > spoiled the broth. Everyone that had input to the project was unwilling to > yield on anyone else's ideas. Hopefully, our project won't degrade into > another such fiasco. THAT is the number one problem to solve. Technical issues are easy I think the solution is to (1) chop the project up into small enough parts, each on it's own PCB so that each part is "easy" and has some wider user outside the project. (2) Find a mechanical standard so all the PCBs can be mounted in some kind of chassis. I'm thinking now that maybe a 160-3U Eurocard would be about right size. But the parts are expensive. (3) Need some sort of design process that allows everyone to contribute. And everyone can. Projects always are lacking technical writers and quality control people Of those a "process" and "mechanical standard", I think are the hardest. We always give managers a hard time but that is what is needed. The person who will make this happen will be a manager and organizer maybe not a designer. -- = Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RADAR
Not only that, but by stamping them out you could go from producing one every other week or so to 1000 a day. -Bob On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 5:07 PM, J. Forster wrote: > Correxct, I believe. > > There is a little known story about the cavity magnetron: > > The one Tizzard brought over was machined out of a solid block of copper. > Copper is a horror to machine kinda like cheese. A machinist was > lucky to get any yield. > > It was brought to the Raytheon labs and Percy Spencer looked at it. The > next day he proposed to make them out of thin stampings, like the stator > of a DC moter, stacked up and furnace brazed. He also figured out a better > way to make the internal straps. The outcome was an easily produced > maggie, which also produced much higher power. > > Best, > > -John > > > > > > I believe the klystrons came from the Varian brothers in California, but > > England sent us their multi-cavity magnetrons via Tizzard. Both were > > essential. We gave them the duplexer. > > > > John WA4WDL > > > > -- > > From: "Lee Reynolds" > > Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 6:54 PM > > To: > > Subject: [time-nuts] RADAR > > > >> Hm, I suspect, Rob, much though it might distress national pride, that > >> RADAR > >> a la WWII has probably to qualify as an Anglo American product. > >> > >> The Cousins did, after all, send us those nice klystrons they managed to > >> get > >> up and running. Would've been a bugger to do it without those. > >> > >> Mind you, there was quite a bit done by a number of countries in getting > >> the > >> idea, basic tech and proof of concept going before long before that. > >> > >> Do like those old HOME CHAIN towers you see spotted around here and > >> there, > >> though. > >> > >> Anyone else have anything to add to this? > >> > >>Lee > >> > >> -Original Message- > >> > >> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 21:51:15 - > >> From: "Rob Kimberley" > >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran? > >> To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'" > >> > >> Message-ID: <004801cba090$069dc9d0$13d95d...@timing-consultants.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >> > >> I there was me thinking that we invented RADAR.. > >> > >> Rob (in UK) Kimberley > >> -- > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to > >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > > > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RADAR
Guys, I hate to do this but we're starting to get way off topic (as interesting as I personally find radar history). Let's once again be considerate of the 1000 people who see each message posted here. Thanks, John On Dec 20, 2010, at 6:54 PM, "Lee Reynolds" wrote: > Hm, I suspect, Rob, much though it might distress national pride, that RADAR > a la WWII has probably to qualify as an Anglo American product. > > The Cousins did, after all, send us those nice klystrons they managed to get > up and running. Would've been a bugger to do it without those. > > Mind you, there was quite a bit done by a number of countries in getting the > idea, basic tech and proof of concept going before long before that. > > Do like those old HOME CHAIN towers you see spotted around here and there, > though. > > Anyone else have anything to add to this? > >Lee > > -Original Message- > > Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 21:51:15 - > From: "Rob Kimberley" > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran? > To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'" > > Message-ID: <004801cba090$069dc9d0$13d95d...@timing-consultants.com> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" > > I there was me thinking that we invented RADAR.. > > Rob (in UK) Kimberley > -- > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Frequency counter recommendation
FWIW my recent experience buying a 5370B resulted in me: Paying a price closer to $700.00 than $200.00 (but still under $700.00) Receiving signficantly better representations from the seller than "powers up unable to test." There are still some good deals to be had on the bay.. I recently saw a lot of two 5334's go for less than $100.00 After buying the 5370 and another 5328 with a high stab osilcator at a price that was to good to pass up I couldn't justify buying two more counters. - Original Message From: Dave M To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Mon, December 20, 2010 2:51:37 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Frequency counter recommendation > I don't believe anybody is speaking to perceived value as much as > historical market cost at various times over the years. I paid $200 > for my 5370B last year and it's in superb condition and well inside > factory specs. There is no way I'd sell it though. > My guess is Bob C and most of us perceive the > value to be much greater, never mind the actual cost. > > -Bob > > On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 4:55 AM, Rex wrote: > >> Why worry, Just get Bob C to sell you one of his several $200 >> 5370A/B's for a reasonable $100 profit (plus shipping) and you'll >> beat anything I've seen on eBay in the last year. Everyone should be >> happy. Bob can can take the profit then (soon) easily get another to >> replace it at his perceived value. >> OK... you have piqued my interest. Who is Bob C (is it Bob Camp?) and how can I contact him for one of those $200 HP 5370 counters? I'd much rather spend $200-$300 on a unit that has a high probability of working than $700 on a "powers up, unable to test" unit from the 'Bay. Hope he has at least one to sell. As to whether I would rather have a dedicated purpose counter-timer strictly for these measurements... I can live with a used/surplus unit that I can get my hands on now (or in a short time) and wait until the designers in the group can design and make a project that we can buy (whether it be kit or preassembled) and put to good use. I understand the issues of platform, connectivity, value, servicability, parts availability, etc., but any project, whether it be a commercial product or a dedicated, special purpose product, is going to be confronted with the same issues. I've subscribed to the S.E.D. group when they have tried to design and build test instruments (a capacitor ESR meter, for one) that never got off the launchpad because of their inability to come to consensus on a set of features. I had to conclude that too many cooks spoiled the broth. Everyone that had input to the project was unwilling to yield on anyone else's ideas. Hopefully, our project won't degrade into another such fiasco. I would jump at a chance to be a small part in this project, and would do whatever I could (my limited engineering knowledge noted) to help it get realized. My $0.02 USD worth... Thanks, David dgminala at mediacombb dot net ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RADAR
In a message dated 20/12/2010 23:54:55 GMT Standard Time, kd...@spamcop.net writes: Do like those old HOME CHAIN towers you see spotted around here and there, though. Anyone else have anything to add to this? - Only that it was CHAIN HOME, and I used to work alongside this one when the site still belonged to Marconi _http://www.chainhome.org.uk/_ (http://www.chainhome.org.uk/) regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RADAR
Correxct, I believe. There is a little known story about the cavity magnetron: The one Tizzard brought over was machined out of a solid block of copper. Copper is a horror to machine kinda like cheese. A machinist was lucky to get any yield. It was brought to the Raytheon labs and Percy Spencer looked at it. The next day he proposed to make them out of thin stampings, like the stator of a DC moter, stacked up and furnace brazed. He also figured out a better way to make the internal straps. The outcome was an easily produced maggie, which also produced much higher power. Best, -John > I believe the klystrons came from the Varian brothers in California, but > England sent us their multi-cavity magnetrons via Tizzard. Both were > essential. We gave them the duplexer. > > John WA4WDL > > -- > From: "Lee Reynolds" > Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 6:54 PM > To: > Subject: [time-nuts] RADAR > >> Hm, I suspect, Rob, much though it might distress national pride, that >> RADAR >> a la WWII has probably to qualify as an Anglo American product. >> >> The Cousins did, after all, send us those nice klystrons they managed to >> get >> up and running. Would've been a bugger to do it without those. >> >> Mind you, there was quite a bit done by a number of countries in getting >> the >> idea, basic tech and proof of concept going before long before that. >> >> Do like those old HOME CHAIN towers you see spotted around here and >> there, >> though. >> >> Anyone else have anything to add to this? >> >>Lee >> >> -Original Message- >> >> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 21:51:15 - >> From: "Rob Kimberley" >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran? >> To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'" >> >> Message-ID: <004801cba090$069dc9d0$13d95d...@timing-consultants.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> I there was me thinking that we invented RADAR.. >> >> Rob (in UK) Kimberley >> -- >> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RADAR
I believe the klystrons came from the Varian brothers in California, but England sent us their multi-cavity magnetrons via Tizzard. Both were essential. We gave them the duplexer. John WA4WDL -- From: "Lee Reynolds" Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 6:54 PM To: Subject: [time-nuts] RADAR Hm, I suspect, Rob, much though it might distress national pride, that RADAR a la WWII has probably to qualify as an Anglo American product. The Cousins did, after all, send us those nice klystrons they managed to get up and running. Would've been a bugger to do it without those. Mind you, there was quite a bit done by a number of countries in getting the idea, basic tech and proof of concept going before long before that. Do like those old HOME CHAIN towers you see spotted around here and there, though. Anyone else have anything to add to this? Lee -Original Message- Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 21:51:15 - From: "Rob Kimberley" Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran? To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'" Message-ID: <004801cba090$069dc9d0$13d95d...@timing-consultants.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I there was me thinking that we invented RADAR.. Rob (in UK) Kimberley -- ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] RADAR
Hm, I suspect, Rob, much though it might distress national pride, that RADAR a la WWII has probably to qualify as an Anglo American product. The Cousins did, after all, send us those nice klystrons they managed to get up and running. Would've been a bugger to do it without those. Mind you, there was quite a bit done by a number of countries in getting the idea, basic tech and proof of concept going before long before that. Do like those old HOME CHAIN towers you see spotted around here and there, though. Anyone else have anything to add to this? Lee -Original Message- Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 21:51:15 - From: "Rob Kimberley" Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran? To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'" Message-ID: <004801cba090$069dc9d0$13d95d...@timing-consultants.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I there was me thinking that we invented RADAR.. Rob (in UK) Kimberley -- ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran?
Thanks Poul will do its long enough past sunset to start hunting. On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message > >, > paul > swed writes: > > >Well to be honest when I typed loran it was simply because I felt like it. > >It was more important to communicate the fact that I couldn't here and > >european stations in the northeast us. Thats all that mattered. Caps or > >lowercase simply no longer matters to me on the dead us service. > >So getting back at it I will fire up a different antenna and preamp and > give > >it one more shot. > > Make sure you listen on the correct GRI's, some tables still list the > long abandoned 3-digit USCG chains, rather than the 4-digit NELS chains: > >Eiği, GRI=9007 >Lessay, GRI=6731 >Sylt, GRI=7499 >Værlandet, GRI=7001 > > For what it's worth, I have never been able to more than barely detect > the 9960 chain from here in Denmark, and that was only after a major > DSP exercise... > > Poul-Henning > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Frequency counter recommendation
I don't believe anybody is speaking to perceived value as much as historical market cost at various times over the years. I paid $200 for my 5370B last year and it's in superb condition and well inside factory specs. There is no way I'd sell it though. My guess is Bob C and most of us perceive the value to be much greater, never mind the actual cost. -Bob On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 4:55 AM, Rex wrote: Why worry, Just get Bob C to sell you one of his several $200 5370A/B's for a reasonable $100 profit (plus shipping) and you'll beat anything I've seen on eBay in the last year. Everyone should be happy. Bob can can take the profit then (soon) easily get another to replace it at his perceived value. OK... you have piqued my interest. Who is Bob C (is it Bob Camp?) and how can I contact him for one of those $200 HP 5370 counters? I'd much rather spend $200-$300 on a unit that has a high probability of working than $700 on a "powers up, unable to test" unit from the 'Bay. Hope he has at least one to sell. As to whether I would rather have a dedicated purpose counter-timer strictly for these measurements... I can live with a used/surplus unit that I can get my hands on now (or in a short time) and wait until the designers in the group can design and make a project that we can buy (whether it be kit or preassembled) and put to good use. I understand the issues of platform, connectivity, value, servicability, parts availability, etc., but any project, whether it be a commercial product or a dedicated, special purpose product, is going to be confronted with the same issues. I've subscribed to the S.E.D. group when they have tried to design and build test instruments (a capacitor ESR meter, for one) that never got off the launchpad because of their inability to come to consensus on a set of features. I had to conclude that too many cooks spoiled the broth. Everyone that had input to the project was unwilling to yield on anyone else's ideas. Hopefully, our project won't degrade into another such fiasco. I would jump at a chance to be a small part in this project, and would do whatever I could (my limited engineering knowledge noted) to help it get realized. My $0.02 USD worth... Thanks, David dgminala at mediacombb dot net ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran?
In message , paul swed writes: >Well to be honest when I typed loran it was simply because I felt like it. >It was more important to communicate the fact that I couldn't here and >european stations in the northeast us. Thats all that mattered. Caps or >lowercase simply no longer matters to me on the dead us service. >So getting back at it I will fire up a different antenna and preamp and give >it one more shot. Make sure you listen on the correct GRI's, some tables still list the long abandoned 3-digit USCG chains, rather than the 4-digit NELS chains: Eiði, GRI=9007 Lessay, GRI=6731 Sylt, GRI=7499 Værlandet, GRI=7001 For what it's worth, I have never been able to more than barely detect the 9960 chain from here in Denmark, and that was only after a major DSP exercise... Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran?
Well to be honest when I typed loran it was simply because I felt like it. It was more important to communicate the fact that I couldn't here and european stations in the northeast us. Thats all that mattered. Caps or lowercase simply no longer matters to me on the dead us service. So getting back at it I will fire up a different antenna and preamp and give it one more shot. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 5:23 PM, Alan Melia wrote: > Hi Rob no we invented "RDF" (or Radio Location)and they called it Radar > :-)) > Alan G3NYK > > - Original Message - > From: "Rob Kimberley" > To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'" > > Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 9:51 PM > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran? > > > > I there was me thinking that we invented RADAR.. > > > > Rob (in UK) Kimberley > > > > -Original Message- > > From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On > > Behalf Of David McGaw > > Sent: 20 December 2010 8:49 PM > > To: j...@quik.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran? > > > >As written in Wikipedia and as I have always understood: "The term > >RADAR was coined in 1940 by the [1]U.S. Navy as an [2]acronym for > radio > >detection and ranging." > >David > >At 01:04 PM 12/20/2010, you wrote: > > > > IMO this trend is a two edged sword: > > I don't like to see the historical aspect of the name lost by it > > becomming > > a lower-case noun. > > OTOH, it's been said that the ultimate tribute in Physics is to > > become > > "part of the furniture", like Newton's or Maxwell's Laws. > > FWIW, > > -John > > === > > > The Oxford dictionary has "radar", "loran" and "scuba" all listed > > in lower > > > case. > > > > > > Also according to them "radar" never was an acronym. It is a > > coined > > > word. Technically to be an acronym the it must be spelled by the > > > first letter of several other words. "SCUBA" is an acronym but > > > "scuba" is now a common English word that has displaced the old > > 1950's > > > vintage "SCUBA" in modern usage. But "radar" was never an > > acronym. > > > > > > The Oxford English Dictionary takes the view that the English > > > language changes with time.You can disagree. Many people do > > and > > > claim English has fixed rules that never change but if you do then > > you > > > will have to pick a date for when it was "correct" and then > > explain > > > how it could be incorrect before that date. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 7:07 AM, paul swed > > wrote: > > >> Indeed. But thats the way it goes. > > >> > > >> On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 12:52 PM, J. Forster > > wrote: > > >> > > >>> There ain't no such thing as Loran. It's LORAN, just like RADAR. > > >>> > > >>> They are BOTH acronyms. > > >>> > > >>> -John > > >>> > > >>> = > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > There never was a Loran receiver with a keypad. I am certain > > he > > >>> meant > > >>> > Loran C. Loran is (was) the common name for the service... > > But then, > > >>> > you already knew that, and were just trying to stir things up. > > >>> > > > >>> > -Chuck Harris > > >>> > > > >>> > Max Robinson wrote: > > >>> >> He didn't say Loran C he said Loran. That is the old system > > that > > >>> used > > >>> >> to operate just above the AM broadcast band and took away > > most of > > >>> the > > >>> >> 160 meter ham band. That hasn't been around for decades. I > > don't > > >>> think > > >>> >> there is a version of it operating anywhere in the world. > > >>> > > > >>> > ___ > > >>> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > >>> > To unsubscribe, go to > > >>> > [3]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > >>> > and follow the instructions there. > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> ___ > > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > >>> To unsubscribe, go to > > >>> [4]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > >>> and follow the instructions there. > > >>> > > >> ___ > > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > >> To unsubscribe, go to > > >> [5]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > >> and follow the instructions there. > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > = > > > Chris Albertson > > > Redondo
Re: [time-nuts] Loran?
Hi Rob no we invented "RDF" (or Radio Location)and they called it Radar :-)) Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: "Rob Kimberley" To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'" Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran? > I there was me thinking that we invented RADAR.. > > Rob (in UK) Kimberley > > -Original Message- > From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On > Behalf Of David McGaw > Sent: 20 December 2010 8:49 PM > To: j...@quik.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran? > >As written in Wikipedia and as I have always understood: "The term >RADAR was coined in 1940 by the [1]U.S. Navy as an [2]acronym for radio >detection and ranging." >David >At 01:04 PM 12/20/2010, you wrote: > > IMO this trend is a two edged sword: > I don't like to see the historical aspect of the name lost by it > becomming > a lower-case noun. > OTOH, it's been said that the ultimate tribute in Physics is to > become > "part of the furniture", like Newton's or Maxwell's Laws. > FWIW, > -John > === > > The Oxford dictionary has "radar", "loran" and "scuba" all listed > in lower > > case. > > > > Also according to them "radar" never was an acronym. It is a > coined > > word. Technically to be an acronym the it must be spelled by the > > first letter of several other words. "SCUBA" is an acronym but > > "scuba" is now a common English word that has displaced the old > 1950's > > vintage "SCUBA" in modern usage. But "radar" was never an > acronym. > > > > The Oxford English Dictionary takes the view that the English > > language changes with time.You can disagree. Many people do > and > > claim English has fixed rules that never change but if you do then > you > > will have to pick a date for when it was "correct" and then > explain > > how it could be incorrect before that date. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 7:07 AM, paul swed > wrote: > >> Indeed. But thats the way it goes. > >> > >> On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 12:52 PM, J. Forster > wrote: > >> > >>> There ain't no such thing as Loran. It's LORAN, just like RADAR. > >>> > >>> They are BOTH acronyms. > >>> > >>> -John > >>> > >>> = > >>> > >>> > >>> > There never was a Loran receiver with a keypad. I am certain > he > >>> meant > >>> > Loran C. Loran is (was) the common name for the service... > But then, > >>> > you already knew that, and were just trying to stir things up. > >>> > > >>> > -Chuck Harris > >>> > > >>> > Max Robinson wrote: > >>> >> He didn't say Loran C he said Loran. That is the old system > that > >>> used > >>> >> to operate just above the AM broadcast band and took away > most of > >>> the > >>> >> 160 meter ham band. That hasn't been around for decades. I > don't > >>> think > >>> >> there is a version of it operating anywhere in the world. > >>> > > >>> > ___ > >>> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >>> > To unsubscribe, go to > >>> > [3]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>> > and follow the instructions there. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ___ > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >>> To unsubscribe, go to > >>> [4]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>> and follow the instructions there. > >>> > >> ___ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to > >> [5]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > = > > Chris Albertson > > Redondo Beach, California > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > [6]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > [7]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > References > >1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Navy >2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronym_and_initialism >3. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mai
Re: [time-nuts] Loran?
At 04:39 PM 12/20/2010, Chris Albertson wrote... Well I guess we are getting "nuts" about this. Yes OED says "radar orig. U.S. [f. radio detection and ranging.]" but that does not mean it is an acronym. OED reserves the term "acronym" for words made using only the fist letter of each description word. "radar" uses the first two letters from "radio" and so OED uses only the "f." Well, the word was a US creation, so the OED really doesn't apply. Strange how none of the definitions mentions TIME. Random House says: "a word formed from the initial letters or groups of letters of words in a set phrase or series of words, as Wac from Women's Army Corps, OPEC from Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, or loran from long-range navigation." Webster's says: "a word (as NATO, radar, or laser) formed from the initial letter or letters of each of the successive parts or major parts of a compound term; also : an abbreviation (as FBI) formed from initial letters " The American Heritage New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy says: "A word formed by combining the beginning letters of a name or phrase, as in WASP for w hite A nglo- S axon P rotestant, or by combining the initial syllables of a series of words, as in radar, which stands for ra dio de tecting a nd r anging." ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran?
Hi, From: "Chris Albertson" Well I guess we are getting "nuts" about this. Yes! I have the full version of OED at home. It is from the paper version! First usage on the 18th of November 1941 by the N.Y. Times. It was written 'Radar'. I bet they have a page length article on "radar". Yes, almost. Bye, Jean-Louis ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran?
I there was me thinking that we invented RADAR.. Rob (in UK) Kimberley -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of David McGaw Sent: 20 December 2010 8:49 PM To: j...@quik.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran? As written in Wikipedia and as I have always understood: "The term RADAR was coined in 1940 by the [1]U.S. Navy as an [2]acronym for radio detection and ranging." David At 01:04 PM 12/20/2010, you wrote: IMO this trend is a two edged sword: I don't like to see the historical aspect of the name lost by it becomming a lower-case noun. OTOH, it's been said that the ultimate tribute in Physics is to become "part of the furniture", like Newton's or Maxwell's Laws. FWIW, -John === > The Oxford dictionary has "radar", "loran" and "scuba" all listed in lower > case. > > Also according to them "radar" never was an acronym. It is a coined > word. Technically to be an acronym the it must be spelled by the > first letter of several other words. "SCUBA" is an acronym but > "scuba" is now a common English word that has displaced the old 1950's > vintage "SCUBA" in modern usage. But "radar" was never an acronym. > > The Oxford English Dictionary takes the view that the English > language changes with time.You can disagree. Many people do and > claim English has fixed rules that never change but if you do then you > will have to pick a date for when it was "correct" and then explain > how it could be incorrect before that date. > > > > On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 7:07 AM, paul swed wrote: >> Indeed. But thats the way it goes. >> >> On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 12:52 PM, J. Forster wrote: >> >>> There ain't no such thing as Loran. It's LORAN, just like RADAR. >>> >>> They are BOTH acronyms. >>> >>> -John >>> >>> = >>> >>> >>> > There never was a Loran receiver with a keypad. I am certain he >>> meant >>> > Loran C. Loran is (was) the common name for the service... But then, >>> > you already knew that, and were just trying to stir things up. >>> > >>> > -Chuck Harris >>> > >>> > Max Robinson wrote: >>> >> He didn't say Loran C he said Loran. That is the old system that >>> used >>> >> to operate just above the AM broadcast band and took away most of >>> the >>> >> 160 meter ham band. That hasn't been around for decades. I don't >>> think >>> >> there is a version of it operating anywhere in the world. >>> > >>> > ___ >>> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> > To unsubscribe, go to >>> > [3]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> > and follow the instructions there. >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> [4]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> [5]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > > > -- > = > Chris Albertson > Redondo Beach, California > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > [6]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to [7]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. References 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Navy 2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronym_and_initialism 3. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts 4. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts 5. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts 6. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts 7. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts maili
Re: [time-nuts] Loran?
In a message dated 20/12/2010 17:35:22 GMT Standard Time, omni...@gmail.com writes: I await the day when someone opines as to the number of angels that can dance on the head of a GPS antenna. Would that be flat topped or conical?:-) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran?
In a message dated 20/12/2010 17:29:18 GMT Standard Time, albertson.ch...@gmail.com writes: The Oxford dictionary has "radar", "loran" and "scuba" all listed in lower case. Also according to them "radar" never was an acronym. It is a coined word. Technically to be an acronym the it must be spelled by the first letter of several other words. "SCUBA" is an acronym but "scuba" is now a common English word that has displaced the old 1950's vintage "SCUBA" in modern usage. But "radar" was never an acronym. The Oxford English Dictionary takes the view that the English language changes with time.You can disagree. Many people do and claim English has fixed rules that never change but if you do then you will have to pick a date for when it was "correct" and then explain how it could be incorrect before that date. S'funny, I was always under the impression, from many years back, that it WAS an acronym, "radio detection and ranging" comes to mind. The following Wikipedia comments would seem to confirm that, although they also suggest it's lost its capitalisation somewhere along the way, much as you comment for SCUBA, so I guess it might even be considered optional:-) - The term RADAR was coined in 1940 by the _U.S. Navy_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Navy) as an _acronym_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronym_and_initialism) for radio detection and ranging._[1]_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar#cite_note-0) _[2]_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar#cite_note-1) The term radar has since entered the English and other languages as the common noun, radar, losing all of the capitalization. In the _United Kingdom_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom) , this technology was initially called RDF (range and direction finding), using the same acronym as the one for _radio direction finding_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_direction_finding) to conceal its ranging capability. -- Most modern languages change with time, nothing new there, but it's perhaps never a good idea to be too pedantic, especially when quoting another's opinion:-) regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran?
Well I guess we are getting "nuts" about this. Yes OED says "radar orig. U.S. [f. radio detection and ranging.]" but that does not mean it is an acronym. OED reserves the term "acronym" for words made using only the fist letter of each description word. "radar" uses the first two letters from "radio" and so OED uses only the "f." I have the full version of OED at home. I'll try to look it up. I bet they have a page length article on "radar". The on-line version is very slimmed down On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 12:48 PM, Jean-Louis Noel wrote: > Hi, > > From: "Chris Albertson" > >> Also according to them "radar" never was an acronym. > > OED says: radar orig. U.S. [f. radio detection and ranging.] > > Bye, > Jean-Louis > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- = Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran?
OED be damned! I'm not going to change the name of one of my Yahoo Groups from Vintage-Military-RADAR So there ! :) -Jo0hn == > As written in Wikipedia and as I have always understood: "The term > RADAR was coined in 1940 by the U.S. Navy as an acronym for radio > detection and ranging." > > David > > At 01:04 PM 12/20/2010, you wrote: > IMO this trend is a two edged sword: > > I don't like to see the historical aspect of the name lost by it > becomming > a lower-case noun. > > OTOH, it's been said that the ultimate tribute in Physics is to become > "part of the furniture", like Newton's or Maxwell's Laws. > > FWIW, > > -John > > === > > > > The Oxford dictionary has "radar", "loran" and > "scuba" all listed in lower > > case. > > > > Also according to them "radar" never was an acronym. It is a > coined > > word. Technically to be an acronym the it must be spelled by the > > first letter of several other words. "SCUBA" is an acronym > but > > "scuba" is now a common English word that has displaced the > old 1950's > > vintage "SCUBA" in modern usage. But "radar" was > never an acronym. > > > > The Oxford English Dictionary takes the view that the English > > language changes with time.You can disagree. Many people do and > > claim English has fixed rules that never change but if you do then you > > will have to pick a date for when it was "correct" and then > explain > > how it could be incorrect before that date. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 7:07 AM, paul swed wrote: > >> Indeed. But thats the way it goes. > >> > >> On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 12:52 PM, J. Forster wrote: > >> > >>> There ain't no such thing as Loran. It's LORAN, just like RADAR. > >>> > >>> They are BOTH acronyms. > >>> > >>> -John > >>> > >>> = > >>> > >>> > >>> > There never was a Loran receiver with a keypad. I am certain he > >>> meant > >>> > Loran C. Loran is (was) the common name for the service... But > then, > >>> > you already knew that, and were just trying to stir things up. > >>> > > >>> > -Chuck Harris > >>> > > >>> > Max Robinson wrote: > >>> >> He didn't say Loran C he said Loran. That is the old system that > >>> used > >>> >> to operate just above the AM broadcast band and took away most of > >>> the > >>> >> 160 meter ham band. That hasn't been around for decades. I don't > >>> think > >>> >> there is a version of it operating anywhere in the world. > >>> > > >>> > ___ > >>> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >>> > To unsubscribe, go to > >>> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>> > and follow the instructions there. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ___ > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >>> To unsubscribe, go to > >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>> and follow the instructions there. > >>> > >> ___ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to > >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > = > > Chris Albertson > > Redondo Beach, California > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran?
Hi, From: "Chris Albertson" Also according to them "radar" never was an acronym. OED says: radar orig. U.S. [f. radio detection and ranging.] Bye, Jean-Louis ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran?
As written in Wikipedia and as I have always understood: "The term RADAR was coined in 1940 by the [1]U.S. Navy as an [2]acronym for radio detection and ranging." David At 01:04 PM 12/20/2010, you wrote: IMO this trend is a two edged sword: I don't like to see the historical aspect of the name lost by it becomming a lower-case noun. OTOH, it's been said that the ultimate tribute in Physics is to become "part of the furniture", like Newton's or Maxwell's Laws. FWIW, -John === > The Oxford dictionary has "radar", "loran" and "scuba" all listed in lower > case. > > Also according to them "radar" never was an acronym. It is a coined > word. Technically to be an acronym the it must be spelled by the > first letter of several other words. "SCUBA" is an acronym but > "scuba" is now a common English word that has displaced the old 1950's > vintage "SCUBA" in modern usage. But "radar" was never an acronym. > > The Oxford English Dictionary takes the view that the English > language changes with time.You can disagree. Many people do and > claim English has fixed rules that never change but if you do then you > will have to pick a date for when it was "correct" and then explain > how it could be incorrect before that date. > > > > On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 7:07 AM, paul swed wrote: >> Indeed. But thats the way it goes. >> >> On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 12:52 PM, J. Forster wrote: >> >>> There ain't no such thing as Loran. It's LORAN, just like RADAR. >>> >>> They are BOTH acronyms. >>> >>> -John >>> >>> = >>> >>> >>> > There never was a Loran receiver with a keypad. I am certain he >>> meant >>> > Loran C. Loran is (was) the common name for the service... But then, >>> > you already knew that, and were just trying to stir things up. >>> > >>> > -Chuck Harris >>> > >>> > Max Robinson wrote: >>> >> He didn't say Loran C he said Loran. That is the old system that >>> used >>> >> to operate just above the AM broadcast band and took away most of >>> the >>> >> 160 meter ham band. That hasn't been around for decades. I don't >>> think >>> >> there is a version of it operating anywhere in the world. >>> > >>> > ___ >>> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> > To unsubscribe, go to >>> > [3]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> > and follow the instructions there. >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> [4]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> [5]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > > > -- > = > Chris Albertson > Redondo Beach, California > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > [6]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to [7]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. References 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Navy 2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronym_and_initialism 3. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts 4. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts 5. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts 6. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts 7. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Help!! Trimble T-Bolt serial port interface problem...
Windows XP – solutions http://www.bmw-world.ro/?p=173 Windows 7 http://www.windowsitpro.com/article/product-review/how-do-i-disable-mouse-detection-on-a-com-port-for-ups-usage-.aspx Stanley - Original Message From: Michael Baker To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Mon, December 20, 2010 12:32:50 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Help!! Trimble T-Bolt serial port interface problem... Hello, Time Nutters-- I just installed Lady Heather on my Dell D-610 laptop. When I booted it up with the T-bolt plugged into the serial port on the laptop, it screwed up the pointer and touch-pad. The pointer functions erratically and is generally uncontrollable. As I recall, this is a common problem when plugging T-bolts into serial ports. I know that there is a procedure to cure this problem-- but I forgot what it is. Sometimes I think I am getting senile and getting forgetful... The laptop has Windows-7 Eternity OS on it but I think the fix procedure is the same as Win-XP. Can any Time-Nutters on the list help me out with this...?? Many thanks!! Mike Baker Micanopy, FL -- ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Help!! Trimble T-Bolt serial port interface problem
Windows is interpreting your T-bolt as a mouse. The T-bolt data is causing the jumping and selecting. Unplug the T-bolt. Always boot without T-bolt connected. Or Add the following to your "Boot.ini" file. The "x" stands for the COM port you are using. NoSerialMice:COMx (thanks to Joe Gray W5JG) Mike - AA8K On 12/20/2010 01:32 PM, Michael Baker wrote: Hello, Time Nutters-- I just installed Lady Heather on my Dell D-610 laptop. When I booted it up with the T-bolt plugged into the serial port on the laptop, it screwed up the pointer and touch-pad. The pointer functions erratically and is generally uncontrollable. As I recall, this is a common problem when plugging T-bolts into serial ports. I know that there is a procedure to cure this problem-- but I forgot what it is. Sometimes I think I am getting senile and getting forgetful... The laptop has Windows-7 Eternity OS on it but I think the fix procedure is the same as Win-XP. Can any Time-Nutters on the list help me out with this...?? Many thanks!! Mike Baker Micanopy, FL -- ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Help!! Trimble T-Bolt serial port interface problem...
Hello, Time Nutters-- I just installed Lady Heather on my Dell D-610 laptop. When I booted it up with the T-bolt plugged into the serial port on the laptop, it screwed up the pointer and touch-pad. The pointer functions erratically and is generally uncontrollable. As I recall, this is a common problem when plugging T-bolts into serial ports. I know that there is a procedure to cure this problem-- but I forgot what it is. Sometimes I think I am getting senile and getting forgetful... The laptop has Windows-7 Eternity OS on it but I think the fix procedure is the same as Win-XP. Can any Time-Nutters on the list help me out with this...?? Many thanks!! Mike Baker Micanopy, FL -- ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] A moment to reflect
The solstice is upon us. As the sun appears, however briefly, to pause in the sky, it is perhaps a time for each of us to pause for a moment of reflection and a renewed commitment to peace, justice, and prosperity for all. "Now the seasons are closing their files on each of us, the heavy drawers full of certificates rolling back into the tree trunks, a few old papers flocking away. Someone we loved has fallen from our thoughts, making a little, glittering splash like a bicycle pushed by a breeze. Otherwise, not much has happened; we fell in love again, finding that one red reather on the wind." - Ted Kooser, *Year's End* ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran?
IMO this trend is a two edged sword: I don't like to see the historical aspect of the name lost by it becomming a lower-case noun. OTOH, it's been said that the ultimate tribute in Physics is to become "part of the furniture", like Newton's or Maxwell's Laws. FWIW, -John === > The Oxford dictionary has "radar", "loran" and "scuba" all listed in lower > case. > > Also according to them "radar" never was an acronym. It is a coined > word. Technically to be an acronym the it must be spelled by the > first letter of several other words. "SCUBA" is an acronym but > "scuba" is now a common English word that has displaced the old 1950's > vintage "SCUBA" in modern usage. But "radar" was never an acronym. > > The Oxford English Dictionary takes the view that the English > language changes with time.You can disagree. Many people do and > claim English has fixed rules that never change but if you do then you > will have to pick a date for when it was "correct" and then explain > how it could be incorrect before that date. > > > > On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 7:07 AM, paul swed wrote: >> Indeed. But thats the way it goes. >> >> On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 12:52 PM, J. Forster wrote: >> >>> There ain't no such thing as Loran. It's LORAN, just like RADAR. >>> >>> They are BOTH acronyms. >>> >>> -John >>> >>> = >>> >>> >>> > There never was a Loran receiver with a keypad. I am certain he >>> meant >>> > Loran C. Loran is (was) the common name for the service... But then, >>> > you already knew that, and were just trying to stir things up. >>> > >>> > -Chuck Harris >>> > >>> > Max Robinson wrote: >>> >> He didn't say Loran C he said Loran. That is the old system that >>> used >>> >> to operate just above the AM broadcast band and took away most of >>> the >>> >> 160 meter ham band. That hasn't been around for decades. I don't >>> think >>> >> there is a version of it operating anywhere in the world. >>> > >>> > ___ >>> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> > To unsubscribe, go to >>> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> > and follow the instructions there. >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > > > -- > = > Chris Albertson > Redondo Beach, California > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran?
As a non-engineer but a dedicated people-watcher, I enjoy the gentle oneupsmanship on this list. It is conducted with the studied courtesy of debate in the US Senate. I await the day when someone opines as to the number of angels that can dance on the head of a GPS antenna. On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 12:29 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: > The Oxford dictionary has "radar", "loran" and "scuba" all listed in lower > case. > > Also according to them "radar" never was an acronym. It is a coined > word. Technically to be an acronym the it must be spelled by the > first letter of several other words. "SCUBA" is an acronym but > "scuba" is now a common English word that has displaced the old 1950's > vintage "SCUBA" in modern usage. But "radar" was never an acronym. > > The Oxford English Dictionary takes the view that the English > language changes with time.You can disagree. Many people do and > claim English has fixed rules that never change but if you do then you > will have to pick a date for when it was "correct" and then explain > how it could be incorrect before that date. > > > > On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 7:07 AM, paul swed wrote: > > Indeed. But thats the way it goes. > > > > On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 12:52 PM, J. Forster wrote: > > > >> There ain't no such thing as Loran. It's LORAN, just like RADAR. > >> > >> They are BOTH acronyms. > >> > >> -John > >> > >> = > >> > >> > >> > There never was a Loran receiver with a keypad. I am certain he meant > >> > Loran C. Loran is (was) the common name for the service... But then, > >> > you already knew that, and were just trying to stir things up. > >> > > >> > -Chuck Harris > >> > > >> > Max Robinson wrote: > >> >> He didn't say Loran C he said Loran. That is the old system that > used > >> >> to operate just above the AM broadcast band and took away most of the > >> >> 160 meter ham band. That hasn't been around for decades. I don't > think > >> >> there is a version of it operating anywhere in the world. > >> > > >> > ___ > >> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> > To unsubscribe, go to > >> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> > and follow the instructions there. > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to > >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > > -- > = > Chris Albertson > Redondo Beach, California > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran?
The Oxford dictionary has "radar", "loran" and "scuba" all listed in lower case. Also according to them "radar" never was an acronym. It is a coined word. Technically to be an acronym the it must be spelled by the first letter of several other words. "SCUBA" is an acronym but "scuba" is now a common English word that has displaced the old 1950's vintage "SCUBA" in modern usage. But "radar" was never an acronym. The Oxford English Dictionary takes the view that the English language changes with time.You can disagree. Many people do and claim English has fixed rules that never change but if you do then you will have to pick a date for when it was "correct" and then explain how it could be incorrect before that date. On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 7:07 AM, paul swed wrote: > Indeed. But thats the way it goes. > > On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 12:52 PM, J. Forster wrote: > >> There ain't no such thing as Loran. It's LORAN, just like RADAR. >> >> They are BOTH acronyms. >> >> -John >> >> = >> >> >> > There never was a Loran receiver with a keypad. I am certain he meant >> > Loran C. Loran is (was) the common name for the service... But then, >> > you already knew that, and were just trying to stir things up. >> > >> > -Chuck Harris >> > >> > Max Robinson wrote: >> >> He didn't say Loran C he said Loran. That is the old system that used >> >> to operate just above the AM broadcast band and took away most of the >> >> 160 meter ham band. That hasn't been around for decades. I don't think >> >> there is a version of it operating anywhere in the world. >> > >> > ___ >> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> > To unsubscribe, go to >> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> > and follow the instructions there. >> > >> > >> >> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- = Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ublox GPS board
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 10:02:31 -0600 John Green wrote: > Has anyone > here ever made any measurements on the UBLOX TIM-LF-0-000? I think you hit an archeology site :-) The TIM* modules were the first u-blox GPS receiver, introduced somewhen around 2002/2003 IIRC. I don't think they are worth much for timing applications these days (in the time-nut sense ;-), especially considering that the LEA6-T is available for prices around 50CHF in low quantities. > These are > not timing grade, by the way. The spec. sheet says the accuracy of the > time pulse is 50 nSec. If that is +/- 50, then what I am seeing might > be OK. Considering the age, i'd say that it's +/- 50ns, probably even more. Attila Kinali -- It is the unknown we fear when we look upon death and darkness, nothing more. -- Albus P. W. B. Dumbledore ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Ublox GPS board
I recently bought 4 older UBLOX GPS boards on eBay for $15 with free shipping. I hooked one up to my 1992 and comparing it with the Z3801, I am seeing it jump all over the place. I am using the 10 MHz output from the 3801 to start and the 1 PPS from the UBLOX to stop. I will have to bring in a TBolt just to verify the test set up. Has anyone here ever made any measurements on the UBLOX TIM-LF-0-000? These are not timing grade, by the way. The spec. sheet says the accuracy of the time pulse is 50 nSec. If that is +/- 50, then what I am seeing might be OK. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Fwd: Re: Frequency counter recommendation
I don't believe anybody is speaking to perceived value as much as historical market cost at various times over the years. I paid $200 for my 5370B last year and it's in superb condition and well inside factory specs. There is no way I'd sell it though. My guess is Bob C and most of us perceive the value to be much greater, never mind the actual cost. -Bob On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 4:55 AM, Rex wrote: > Why worry, Just get Bob C to sell you one of his several $200 5370A/B's for > a reasonable $100 profit (plus shipping) and you'll beat anything I've seen > on eBay in the last year. Everyone should be happy. Bob can can take the > profit then (soon) easily get another to replace it at his perceived value. > > > Original Message > Subject:Re: [time-nuts] Frequency counter recommendation > Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 08:49:14 - > From: Reeves Paul > Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement < > time-nuts@febo.com> > To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' < > time-nuts@febo.com> > > > > It's OK for you guys in the USA with lots of old HP gear around but for us > over the other side of the pond we can only dream of those sort of surplus > quantities - let alone the prices Still, it's nice to dream. > A 'purpose built' design of a front end might well have quite a few people > interested over here. > > Paul Reeves G8GJA > > -Original Message- > From: jimlux [mailto:jim...@earthlink.net] > Sent: 19 December 2010 04:08 > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Frequency counter recommendation > > > Bob Camp wrote: > >> Hi >> >> If you are going to do a full boat implementation and work out all the >> > isolation issues and packaging, the question becomes: > >> >> Will it be better bang for the buck than a ~ $200 HP 5370? >> >> > Isn't that the classic New vs Used discussion, though? Those 5370s > won't be available for $200 all the time > > The used equipment dealers charge more like $750-2k for that, depending > if it's an A or a B, or if it's calibrated, etc. The lowest price on > eBay is around $700 > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran DX and Austron 2100
Yes indeed when the NA sites were active. But unfortunately europe is not showing up. Not that it would have been very good for a frequency reference check. Paul WB8TSL On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 12:57 PM, J. Forster wrote: > I've not looked lately, but with the Austron loop and a 7854 Tek scope > near Boston, LORAN pulses used to be several volts. Impossible to miss. > > -John > > = > > > > I hooked up my 3586C to my loran-C loop, and the 100KHz spectrum was > > dead... > > except for my solar powered fence charger after turning off the fence > > charger, it was still dead. There is no Loran-C inspired joy in > Mudville. > > > > -Chuck Harris > > > > paul swed wrote: > >> Did look for LORAN C chains last night simple dumb setup. > >> HP 3586 to 80 meter vertical and pretty good ground plane. > >> Heard not a thing from Boston even at -120 db. (I did hear general crud) > >> Do wonder with all of these little cpfl lights and their nasty switchers > >> if > >> the noise floors is up. > >> Will try with a LORAN C active antenna and preamp tonight. But not > >> sounding > >> to good. > >> Regards > >> Paul > >> WB8TSL > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran?
Indeed. But thats the way it goes. On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 12:52 PM, J. Forster wrote: > There ain't no such thing as Loran. It's LORAN, just like RADAR. > > They are BOTH acronyms. > > -John > > = > > > > There never was a Loran receiver with a keypad. I am certain he meant > > Loran C. Loran is (was) the common name for the service... But then, > > you already knew that, and were just trying to stir things up. > > > > -Chuck Harris > > > > Max Robinson wrote: > >> He didn't say Loran C he said Loran. That is the old system that used > >> to operate just above the AM broadcast band and took away most of the > >> 160 meter ham band. That hasn't been around for decades. I don't think > >> there is a version of it operating anywhere in the world. > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Fwd: Re: Frequency counter recommendation
Why worry, Just get Bob C to sell you one of his several $200 5370A/B's for a reasonable $100 profit (plus shipping) and you'll beat anything I've seen on eBay in the last year. Everyone should be happy. Bob can can take the profit then (soon) easily get another to replace it at his perceived value. Original Message Subject:Re: [time-nuts] Frequency counter recommendation Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 08:49:14 - From: Reeves Paul Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' It's OK for you guys in the USA with lots of old HP gear around but for us over the other side of the pond we can only dream of those sort of surplus quantities - let alone the prices Still, it's nice to dream. A 'purpose built' design of a front end might well have quite a few people interested over here. Paul Reeves G8GJA -Original Message- From: jimlux [mailto:jim...@earthlink.net] Sent: 19 December 2010 04:08 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Frequency counter recommendation Bob Camp wrote: Hi If you are going to do a full boat implementation and work out all the isolation issues and packaging, the question becomes: Will it be better bang for the buck than a ~ $200 HP 5370? Isn't that the classic New vs Used discussion, though? Those 5370s won't be available for $200 all the time The used equipment dealers charge more like $750-2k for that, depending if it's an A or a B, or if it's calibrated, etc. The lowest price on eBay is around $700 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Frequency counter recommendation
It's OK for you guys in the USA with lots of old HP gear around but for us over the other side of the pond we can only dream of those sort of surplus quantities - let alone the prices Still, it's nice to dream. A 'purpose built' design of a front end might well have quite a few people interested over here. Paul Reeves G8GJA -Original Message- From: jimlux [mailto:jim...@earthlink.net] Sent: 19 December 2010 04:08 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Frequency counter recommendation Bob Camp wrote: > Hi > > If you are going to do a full boat implementation and work out all the isolation issues and packaging, the question becomes: > > Will it be better bang for the buck than a ~ $200 HP 5370? > Isn't that the classic New vs Used discussion, though? Those 5370s won't be available for $200 all the time The used equipment dealers charge more like $750-2k for that, depending if it's an A or a B, or if it's calibrated, etc. The lowest price on eBay is around $700 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. This email, including any attachment, is a confidential communication intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. It contains information which is private and may be proprietary or covered by legal professional privilege. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender upon receipt, and immediately delete it from your system. Anything contained in this email that is not connected with the businesses of this company is neither endorsed by nor is the liability of this company. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this email has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses, and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Frequency counter recommendation
I'm shopping for a solution right now. I had several ideas both discussed on this thread: Using an old notebook and an ARM based appliance re-flashed to run Linux but neither would work well. So I'm buying this tiny new motherboard from Intel with an Atom CPU on it. Sells for $70 with the soldered down CPU chip. It is about 6.5 inches square and uses so little power that there is no fan on the CPU heat sink. This computer will run an NTP server and therefor needs a "real" serial port for the 1PPS signal from the GPS (USB will not work) I do't need much else. The server does nt need a CDROM or even a hard drive. It can run on a RAM disk and boot off a USB memory stick. It does not need a monitor or keyboard either. When you add it all up this machine will cost about $100 and burn only 1/4 the power of the old 200Mhz notebook PC. Intel's "Atom" is very good with power. ARM uses even less power but I could not figure out how to get the 1PPS signal to NTPd in any of the ARM platforms I have plans to also connect a WWV receiver to the same computer and decode WWV's time code. This means a fair bit of processing and an audio interface. THat is one way to solve the "how to interface you project to a computer" -- you put the computer inside your project. A $70 and 6.5 inch square motherborad makes that a reasonable plan. - = Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
