[time-nuts] Tbolt LCD Monitor - No DAC reading

2011-05-12 Thread David Bobbett
Both myself and a few other time-nuts have had a problem with the LCD 
Tbolt monitor from /fluke.l/ in China not showing a value for the DAC 
voltage. The DAC voltage did appear correctly in Lady Heather and the 
tboltmon.exe program, but the LCD monitor would only show 0.. All 
other values would display on the LCD without a problem.


I have contacted fluke.l again and so far he has 1) suggested doing a 
factory reset of the Tbolt and 2) asked me to confirm that the data is 
there in the programs mentioned above.  Today he has asked me to send 
him a photo of the display, which I will do shortly.


I thought it would be useful if I let other 'sufferers' know what is 
happening, in case somebody has something to add to the information. 
Please feel free to contact me off list if you prefer.


David Bobbett, G4IRQ
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Re: [time-nuts] Tbolt LCD Monitor - No DAC reading

2011-05-12 Thread Neville Michie

Hi,
continuing the queries on LCD monitors on TBolts
The I.Fluke illustrations show a message of one, two or three
satellites only being visible. My monitors do not display this message,
is that because of the mode the TBolt is in?
I tried to find the list of display messages in the KO4BB listing of  
the software
for the monitor, but I am finding the relation of the message codes  
in the Thunderbolt

Manual to the software for the monitor very confusing.
I assume the TBolt only sends out some codes under particular  
conditions,

does the monitor software decode all possible message codes?
I have inserted the 3 silicon diodes into the 5V supply line to suit  
the micro.

I hope answers to my questions will help many other TBolt users.
Cheers,
Neville Michie


On 12/05/2011, at 4:40 PM, David Bobbett wrote:

Both myself and a few other time-nuts have had a problem with the  
LCD Tbolt monitor from /fluke.l/ in China not showing a value for  
the DAC voltage. The DAC voltage did appear correctly in Lady  
Heather and the tboltmon.exe program, but the LCD monitor would  
only show 0.. All other values would display on the LCD without  
a problem.


I have contacted fluke.l again and so far he has 1) suggested doing  
a factory reset of the Tbolt and 2) asked me to confirm that the  
data is there in the programs mentioned above.  Today he has asked  
me to send him a photo of the display, which I will do shortly.


I thought it would be useful if I let other 'sufferers' know what  
is happening, in case somebody has something to add to the  
information. Please feel free to contact me off list if you prefer.


David Bobbett, G4IRQ
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[time-nuts] Tbolt LCD Monitor - No DAC reading

2011-05-12 Thread Mark Sims

I have a sneaking suspicion that I know what is going on... 

Ages ago I sent the code for my first TSIP parser to someone (can't remember 
who...  was it Dieder?) who was going to use it in a microcontroller based 
tbolt monitor.  Fluke's monitor is just a lift of that design.  Well,  my code 
had a bug in the DAC message processor.  If I remember correctly it was 
something like reading the DAC value as a single precision number,  but the 
tbolt was sending a double precision number (or the other way around).  
   
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Re: [time-nuts] USB and Mouse conflict persists

2011-05-12 Thread Joop
quote: [On the tab Port Settings click Advanced and in that window 
uncheck the

box next to Serial Enumerator]
This is a feature of the FTDI driver. Not something generic.

What worked for me was to disable (postpone actually) the Windows PnP 
device enumerator for a serial device. It works for hardware serial 
ports as well as the USBtoRS232 converters.
This can be done with a registry patch which adds the 
Skipenumerations registry entry. Setting this to a big value skips the 
possible detection of any device (such as a serial mouse) on a COM port.
Search the net for details. E.g. here : 
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;283063


Lots of the USBtoRS232 converters do not contain EEPROM to store a 
unique serial number. Without it Windows cannot be sure you unplugged 
the same device as you re-plugged in another USB port. Its behaviour is 
to assign it a new COM port number. Re-plugging the converter in the 
original USB port should bring back the same COM port number.
You will need to patch the registry again if a new COM port number is 
assigned. If you want to avoid this, look for USBtoRS232 converters that 
have the option to program a USB serial number (like the FTDI FT232R 
based ones)


Joop - pe1cqp


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Re: [time-nuts] Tbolt LCD Monitor - No DAC reading

2011-05-12 Thread David Bobbett
Now that is interesting! I was beginning to wonder whether the problem 
lay with not being able to decode negative DAC values, but I had no way 
of testing it. Clearly, as the data is processed correctly in other 
programs - and the monitor works in all other respects - that does 
rather point to a specific issue with DAC related sub-routines.


The only puzzle is that most of the monitors do work OK as far as I know 
- maybe somebody got different versions of the firmware confused - or is 
it something else?


David


On 12/05/2011 08:56, Mark Sims wrote:
I have a sneaking suspicion that I know what is going on... 


Ages ago I sent the code for my first TSIP parser to someone (can't remember 
who...  was it Dieder?) who was going to use it in a microcontroller based 
tbolt monitor.  Fluke's monitor is just a lift of that design.  Well,  my code 
had a bug in the DAC message processor.  If I remember correctly it was 
something like reading the DAC value as a single precision number,  but the 
tbolt was sending a double precision number (or the other way around).  
 
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Re: [time-nuts] Tbolt LCD Monitor - No DAC reading

2011-05-12 Thread shalimr9
The DAC voltage routine is the worst hack I have ever come up with (that was a 
close call)

The processor is an 8051 and the SDCC compiler I used does not have the 
floating point math library, so I had to decode the DAC voltage by hand and 
it is quite possible that the routine breaks down for some DAC values which I 
did not encounter here (I have 3 TBolts).

I would be surprised if any bug could have survived the stringent 5 minutes of 
testing I subjected this project to but who knows... :)

I will look at it. I also have a version of the code compiled with a different 
compiler (Keil) to try if someone wants to, but I doubt the problem is with the 
compiler.

For those who have seen the wiki page for the GPSMon project, there is a new 
firmware version which can display local time (compensates for GPS offset, time 
zone and DST). However, the DAC routine is unchanged.

Didier KO4BB

--Original Message--
From: Mark Sims
Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
To: Time-Nuts
ReplyTo: Time-Nuts
Subject: [time-nuts] Tbolt LCD Monitor - No DAC reading
Sent: May 12, 2011 2:56 AM


I have a sneaking suspicion that I know what is going on... 

Ages ago I sent the code for my first TSIP parser to someone (can't remember 
who...  was it Dieder?) who was going to use it in a microcontroller based 
tbolt monitor.  Fluke's monitor is just a lift of that design.  Well,  my code 
had a bug in the DAC message processor.  If I remember correctly it was 
something like reading the DAC value as a single precision number,  but the 
tbolt was sending a double precision number (or the other way around).  
   
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Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things...
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Re: [time-nuts] Tbolt LCD Monitor - No DAC reading

2011-05-12 Thread David Bobbett
Well just in case this helps, the DAC on my Tbolt is currently reading  
-0.056013V.  As before, it shows up OK on Tboltmon.exe and Lady Heather, 
reads all zeroes on the LCD monitor.


And just in case it is of any use, my Tbolt details from LH are:

App:  3.0 27 Jun 2002
GPS:  10.2   14 Nov 2001
Mfg:  10.00 24 Mar 2003
Ser:0.80253721

I would have thought 5 minutes of testing would be more than adequate, I 
usually work on the principle that if there's no smoke it must be 
working fine  ;-)


David, G4IRQ



On 12/05/2011 11:46, shali...@gmail.com wrote:

The DAC voltage routine is the worst hack I have ever come up with (that was a 
close call)

The processor is an 8051 and the SDCC compiler I used does not have the floating point 
math library, so I had to decode the DAC voltage by hand and it is quite 
possible that the routine breaks down for some DAC values which I did not encounter here 
(I have 3 TBolts).

I would be surprised if any bug could have survived the stringent 5 minutes of 
testing I subjected this project to but who knows... :)

I will look at it. I also have a version of the code compiled with a different 
compiler (Keil) to try if someone wants to, but I doubt the problem is with the 
compiler.

For those who have seen the wiki page for the GPSMon project, there is a new 
firmware version which can display local time (compensates for GPS offset, time 
zone and DST). However, the DAC routine is unchanged.

Didier KO4BB

--Original Message--
From: Mark Sims
Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
To: Time-Nuts
ReplyTo: Time-Nuts
Subject: [time-nuts] Tbolt LCD Monitor - No DAC reading
Sent: May 12, 2011 2:56 AM


I have a sneaking suspicion that I know what is going on... 


Ages ago I sent the code for my first TSIP parser to someone (can't remember 
who...  was it Dieder?) who was going to use it in a microcontroller based 
tbolt monitor.  Fluke's monitor is just a lift of that design.  Well,  my code 
had a bug in the DAC message processor.  If I remember correctly it was 
something like reading the DAC value as a single precision number,  but the 
tbolt was sending a double precision number (or the other way around).  
 
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Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things...
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Re: [time-nuts] USB and Mouse conflict persists

2011-05-12 Thread Stan, W1LE

Hello Joop,

Thanks for the pointer.
I am slowly achieving the confidence to tackle my XP Pro registry.

Stan, W1LE






On 5/12/2011 4:12 AM, Joop wrote:
quote: [On the tab Port Settings click Advanced and in that window 
uncheck the

box next to Serial Enumerator]
This is a feature of the FTDI driver. Not something generic.

What worked for me was to disable (postpone actually) the Windows PnP 
device enumerator for a serial device. It works for hardware serial 
ports as well as the USBtoRS232 converters.
This can be done with a registry patch which adds the 
Skipenumerations registry entry. Setting this to a big value skips 
the possible detection of any device (such as a serial mouse) on a COM 
port.
Search the net for details. E.g. here : 
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;283063


Lots of the USBtoRS232 converters do not contain EEPROM to store a 
unique serial number. Without it Windows cannot be sure you unplugged 
the same device as you re-plugged in another USB port. Its behaviour 
is to assign it a new COM port number. Re-plugging the converter in 
the original USB port should bring back the same COM port number.
You will need to patch the registry again if a new COM port number is 
assigned. If you want to avoid this, look for USBtoRS232 converters 
that have the option to program a USB serial number (like the FTDI 
FT232R based ones)


Joop - pe1cqp


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Re: [time-nuts] USB and Mouse conflict persists

2011-05-12 Thread shalimr9
Hi Stan,

Do not worry, just go for it, what's the worst that can happen?

;)

Didier KO4BB

Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things...

-Original Message-
From: Stan, W1LE stanw...@verizon.net
Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 08:24:28 
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] USB and Mouse conflict persists

Hello Joop,

Thanks for the pointer.
I am slowly achieving the confidence to tackle my XP Pro registry.

Stan, W1LE






On 5/12/2011 4:12 AM, Joop wrote:
 quote: [On the tab Port Settings click Advanced and in that window 
 uncheck the
 box next to Serial Enumerator]
 This is a feature of the FTDI driver. Not something generic.

 What worked for me was to disable (postpone actually) the Windows PnP 
 device enumerator for a serial device. It works for hardware serial 
 ports as well as the USBtoRS232 converters.
 This can be done with a registry patch which adds the 
 Skipenumerations registry entry. Setting this to a big value skips 
 the possible detection of any device (such as a serial mouse) on a COM 
 port.
 Search the net for details. E.g. here : 
 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;283063

 Lots of the USBtoRS232 converters do not contain EEPROM to store a 
 unique serial number. Without it Windows cannot be sure you unplugged 
 the same device as you re-plugged in another USB port. Its behaviour 
 is to assign it a new COM port number. Re-plugging the converter in 
 the original USB port should bring back the same COM port number.
 You will need to patch the registry again if a new COM port number is 
 assigned. If you want to avoid this, look for USBtoRS232 converters 
 that have the option to program a USB serial number (like the FTDI 
 FT232R based ones)

 Joop - pe1cqp


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 https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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[time-nuts] Fw: Tbolt LCD Monitor - No DAC reading

2011-05-12 Thread shalimr9
Forgot to copy the list...

Didier KO4BB

Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things...

-Original Message-
From: shali...@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 13:07:13 
To: David Bobbettd.bobb...@tiscali.co.uk
Reply-To: shali...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Tbolt LCD Monitor - No DAC reading

I will check but I believe my 3 TBolts all return positive voltages for the DAC.

The routine should handle negative voltages, but without having an actual data 
stream to check against, I can't tell for sure. 

If so, I may need someone who actually gets a negative voltage to send me the 
actual string returned from the TBolt. I will send you a piece of software that 
will capture it and save the data in binary to a file which you could then 
email back to me. That software is not written, and I am quite tied up at the 
moment, but I should be able to get to it in the next few days.

If you run Linux, it probably would be easier with a shell script but I am 
running an old kernel here (2.2.6), so I am not sure whatever I come up with 
would work on your machine.

If anyone has GPSMon displaying a negative DAC voltage, please let me know too.

Didier KO4BB

Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things...

-Original Message-
From: David Bobbett d.bobb...@tiscali.co.uk
Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 13:23:16 
To: shali...@gmail.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency 
measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Tbolt LCD Monitor - No DAC reading

Well just in case this helps, the DAC on my Tbolt is currently reading  
-0.056013V.  As before, it shows up OK on Tboltmon.exe and Lady Heather, 
reads all zeroes on the LCD monitor.

And just in case it is of any use, my Tbolt details from LH are:

App:  3.0 27 Jun 2002
GPS:  10.2   14 Nov 2001
Mfg:  10.00 24 Mar 2003
Ser:0.80253721

I would have thought 5 minutes of testing would be more than adequate, I 
usually work on the principle that if there's no smoke it must be 
working fine  ;-)

David, G4IRQ



On 12/05/2011 11:46, shali...@gmail.com wrote:
 The DAC voltage routine is the worst hack I have ever come up with (that was 
 a close call)

 The processor is an 8051 and the SDCC compiler I used does not have the 
 floating point math library, so I had to decode the DAC voltage by hand and 
 it is quite possible that the routine breaks down for some DAC values which I 
 did not encounter here (I have 3 TBolts).

 I would be surprised if any bug could have survived the stringent 5 minutes 
 of testing I subjected this project to but who knows... :)

 I will look at it. I also have a version of the code compiled with a 
 different compiler (Keil) to try if someone wants to, but I doubt the problem 
 is with the compiler.

 For those who have seen the wiki page for the GPSMon project, there is a new 
 firmware version which can display local time (compensates for GPS offset, 
 time zone and DST). However, the DAC routine is unchanged.

 Didier KO4BB

 --Original Message--
 From: Mark Sims
 Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
 To: Time-Nuts
 ReplyTo: Time-Nuts
 Subject: [time-nuts] Tbolt LCD Monitor - No DAC reading
 Sent: May 12, 2011 2:56 AM


 I have a sneaking suspicion that I know what is going on... 

 Ages ago I sent the code for my first TSIP parser to someone (can't remember 
 who...  was it Dieder?) who was going to use it in a microcontroller based 
 tbolt monitor.  Fluke's monitor is just a lift of that design.  Well,  my 
 code had a bug in the DAC message processor.  If I remember correctly it was 
 something like reading the DAC value as a single precision number,  but the 
 tbolt was sending a double precision number (or the other way around).
  
 ___
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 Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things...
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Re: [time-nuts] Fw: Tbolt LCD Monitor - No DAC reading

2011-05-12 Thread David Bobbett

Didier,
I suspect that the negative voltage issue might be something of a blind 
alley as I would expect more people to be affected than have reported an 
issue - nevertheless it's worth a try. Just let me know when you have an 
opportunity to use the data and I can provide it. The host PC here uses 
XP and I can use LH, Tboltmon or your bespoke software.


David



On 12/05/2011 14:32, shali...@gmail.com wrote:

I may need someone who actually gets a negative voltage to send me the actual 
string returned from the TBolt.


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Re: [time-nuts] Tbolt LCD Monitor - No DAC reading

2011-05-12 Thread Brooke Clarke

Hi:

The current versions of the iCruze LCD monitor are designed to run from 
+12 Volts, not 5 and not 3, see:

http://www.prc68.com/I/ThunderBolt.shtml#iCruze
Ask how I know this.

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com






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Re: [time-nuts] Tbolt LCD Monitor - No DAC reading

2011-05-12 Thread shalimr9
I believe there is an internal 5V regulator that runs the processor directly. 
That would be a very bad thing. On the one I have, there are 3 zero ohm 
resistors in series with the chip's VDD that should be replaced with 3 1N4148 
or equivalent to drop the supply voltage to the chip around 3V.

Didier KO4BB

--Original Message--
From: Brooke Clarke
Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
To: Time-Nuts
ReplyTo: Time-Nuts
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Tbolt LCD Monitor - No DAC reading
Sent: May 12, 2011 10:02 AM

Hi:

The current versions of the iCruze LCD monitor are designed to run from 
+12 Volts, not 5 and not 3, see:
http://www.prc68.com/I/ThunderBolt.shtml#iCruze
Ask how I know this.

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com




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Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things...
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Re: [time-nuts] Tbolt LCD Monitor - No DAC reading

2011-05-12 Thread Jim Hall Sr.
I have the same symptoms. Two Thunderbolts, #1 has DAC voltage of about (+) 0.4 
V. Both Lady Heather and the LCD Monitor read the voltage correctly. 
Thunderbolt #2 has a DAC voltage of about –.1 V. Lady Heather reads the voltage 
correctly but the LCD Monitor shows: 0.. Tends to make one suspicious that 
minus DAC voltages could be the problem.
Jim Hall
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Re: [time-nuts] Atomic clock on a chip

2011-05-12 Thread Bill Hawkins
That's a good link.

Here's another, to a video presentation that gets into the details of the
Symmetricom CSAC.

http://www.brainshark.com/Steve_FatSymmetricom/vu?pi=691826191dm=5pause=1;
appKey=77

Bill Hawkins 

-Original Message-
From: James Fournier
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:25 PM

http://www.smartertechnology.com/c/a/Technology-For-Change/Smarter-Atomic-Cl
ock-on-a-Chip-Debuts/



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[time-nuts] Symmetricom TruTime XL-DC date error

2011-05-12 Thread Peter Loron
Hello, group. I've got a Symmetricom TruTime XL-DC, which appears to be 
working ok now that I have the proper antenna. However, it thinks the 
date is 2031.


Is this a known firmware issue for these boxes?

Thanks.

-Pete

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Re: [time-nuts] Symmetricom TruTime XL-DC date error

2011-05-12 Thread Russell Rezaian

Hi Pete,

I have a few of these boxes with various different firmware versions.

Some of the older boxes do have known issues with GPS week rollover 
and I have seen things labeled on these boxes as Y2K fixes too.


For your particular box there is one setting I think MIGHT make a 
difference for you.


Keypad function 68, or serial function F68 called Year Entry is 
intended for GPS epoch management.


The interesting thing is that depending on you firmware version how 
you set that parameter can have some unusual effects.  On some 
machins you need to set it to an incorrect number to force the epoch 
calculations to work.


For most of my systems with new firmware setting the number correctly 
works properly as expected.


For the NTS-100 systems, which are derived from the XL-DC, you 
sometimes need to set the year to 1996 to get the correct year out of 
the clock.  I believe this is also true for some XL-DC firmware 
versions.


On the serial port try typing F68 and sending a CR.  It should 
reply with the current setting.


To set it, send F68 a space, and then the year, followed by a CR. 
Example F68 2011 followed by CR.


Try checking how this is set now.  If it shows the correct year, try 
setting it back to 1996.


If neither of those work, you may be able to find an alternate value 
that convinces the system to give you the correct value.


You should still be able to find the manual and GPS rollover 
bulletins for these on the net.  If not, copies can probably be found 
in peoples archives.

--
Russell


At 10:46 AM -0700 2011/05/12, Peter Loron wrote:
Hello, group. I've got a Symmetricom TruTime XL-DC, which appears to 
be working ok now that I have the proper antenna. However, it thinks 
the date is 2031.


Is this a known firmware issue for these boxes?

Thanks.

-Pete

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Re: [time-nuts] Symmetricom TruTime XL-DC date error

2011-05-12 Thread Jean-Louis Oneto

Hello
If it's a rollover problem, you should try 26.09.1991 (which is 1024 weeks 
before today).

HTH,
Jean-Louis
- Original Message - 
From: Peter Loron pet...@standingwave.org

To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 5:46 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] Symmetricom TruTime XL-DC date error


Hello, group. I've got a Symmetricom TruTime XL-DC, which appears to be 
working ok now that I have the proper antenna. However, it thinks the date 
is 2031.


Is this a known firmware issue for these boxes?

Thanks.

-Pete

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Re: [time-nuts] Tbolt LCD Monitor - No DAC reading

2011-05-12 Thread David Bobbett
That info would certainly increase the chances of it being an issue with 
handling -ve numbers. I wonder if anybody on time-nuts has an LCD 
monitor which can display negative values?



David, G4IRQ



On 12/05/2011 16:58, Jim Hall Sr. wrote:

I have the same symptoms. Two Thunderbolts, #1 has DAC voltage of about (+) 0.4 
V. Both Lady Heather and the LCD Monitor read the voltage correctly. 
Thunderbolt #2 has a DAC voltage of about –.1 V. Lady Heather reads the voltage 
correctly but the LCD Monitor shows: 0.. Tends to make one suspicious that 
minus DAC voltages could be the problem.
Jim Hall
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