Re: [time-nuts] manuals, anyone?
I was under the understanding that the owner, a school wanted to dispose of multiple cabinets of manuals, and that they didn't want them back. My guess is if they can't dispose of them in one operation without any paperwork they will become regurgitated corrugated box feed stock. I've seen it happen, some suit gets pissed and the contents are gone. At least get them off school property, then decide the next step. If so, I'll even offer to toss in a few $'s to help with the first step. -pete On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 12:32 PM, Will Matney wrote: > Didier, > > I've been on your website, and it is a good one. Great job, and thanks for > the manuals I've downloaded. > > Best, > > Will > > *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** > > On 8/4/2011 at 7:24 PM shali...@gmail.com wrote: > >>I have about 25 GB of manuals on my web site www.ko4bb.com, with new > uploads almost daily, and unlimited storage space. Feel free to upload to > your heart content :) >> >>Didier KO4BB >> >>Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things... >> >>-Original Message- >>From: li...@lazygranch.com >>Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com >>Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 16:39:05 >>To: Discussion of precise time and frequency > measurement >>Reply-To: li...@lazygranch.com, >> Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> >>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] manuals, anyone? >> >>I used BAMA as an example. If there really is a problem storing manuals > online, it wouldn't be difficult to start a similar website. >> >>I'm going to check with a contact I have at archive.org to see if they > want to store manuals. >> >>I have over 20GB of manuals on my desktop. >>-Original Message- >>From: "Dave M" >>Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com >>Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 11:08:46 >>To: >>Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> >>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] manuals, anyone? >> I think a simple solution is anyone that gets a free manual has to scan it and upload it to BAMA or some other free manual website. >>> >>> Nice in theory. Unlikely to work in practice, IMO. >>> >>> BAMA is a laudible effort, but in practice many documents aree not >>> well scanned and some are nearly useless. >>> It is unrealistic to expect one person to scan filing cabinets worth of manuals, but to spread the task around makes sense. >>> >>> Dave has done it. >>> >>> YMMV, >>> >>> -John >> >>BAMA is kinda strange nowadays. According to the note on the edebris > mirror >>page, the main BAMA site has been down for "repairs and upgrades" since >>9/17/2009; almost 2 years ago. Will the main site ever come back online, > or >>has it been written off permanently? >>Also, as I remember, there was a note somewhere on the site that the >>owner(s) of the BAMA site were no longer accepting manuals for test >>equipment... only real "boat anchors" such as tube type radios, ham gear, >>etc. Am I remembering correctly, or was there a different restriction or >>has the restriction been removed? I know that I tried to upload a couple >>Tektronix manuals that I had scanned, but they never showed up on the > site. >> >>David >>dgminala at mediacombb dot net >> >> >> >> >>___ >>time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>and follow the instructions there. >>___ >>time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>and follow the instructions there. >>___ >>time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>and follow the instructions there. >> >>__ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature database 5851 (20110206) __ >> >>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >>http://www.eset.com > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] What is NIST "official time" ?
I've seen similar issues when trying to compare time from differences sources: At the same instant (simulated from deltas to a reference): 1. Casio EDB-700 wristwatch: 11:35:00 2. Computer clock11:34:57 (unadjusted) (at this point I ran nistime-32bit.exe, available from NIST at http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp40/upload/nistime-32bit.exe) 3. Computer clock, nist'ed 11:35:00 4. Z3801, GPS Time 11:35:15 5. Z3805, UTC Time 11:35:00 (here I set my PC time to 10min 30sec slow, eq. to 11:24:30 to catch fake UTC-labeled time that actually is based on computer time) 6. www.time.gov 11:35:00 7. Cell call to (303) 499-7111 11:35:00 8. http://time.is/UTC11:35:00 9. iphone4 small time at top 11:34:58 10. iphone4 'UTC time' free app 11:34:58 10. iphone4 'Emerald time' free app' 11:35:00 11. www.csgnetwork.com/multitimedisp.html 11:24:30 12. Garmin GPS V before lock 11:30:52 13. Garmin GPS V locked 11:35:00 14. leapsecond.com/java/gpsclock.htm11:24:30 15. tycho.usno.navy.mil/cgi-bin/timer.pl 11:35:00 16. ebay time (via Auction Sentry)11:35:00 While I haven't gone to extremes to measure the offsets in ms (someone with more time in their hands could), there were very small differences (one or two tenths of a second at most) between most displays. Z3801 PPS on the scope and Casio display were pretty much in sync, too. Most are good enough to debug the alleged 20s difference, which might be a result of getting UTC from websites that actually just convert computer clock to UTC. Both csgnetwork and leapsecond spelled that out, but often from the Google search to the time display we don't bother with the fine print. Apple and all it's might ($76E9 cash reserves) has time 2s slow - maybe AT&T is to blame - anyone can test a Verizon iphone? "Emerald Time" app is great, shows delays from NTP servers, display time to tenth of a second, seems accurate. The "UTC time" free app (by Mike Wells) seems to be based on OS time, even though the Droid app with same name (from bjg222) does the real thing (like Emerald Time app). Old Garmin 5 was minutes off (hasn't been used in months), but once it acquired satellites it changed display very much in sync with the Casio watch. Interesting the number of time sources we have at our hands, nowadays (NTP, web sites, nist app, gps, WWVB, phone call, cell phones, etc.) Jose -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Quarksnow Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 11:09 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] What is NIST "official time" ? Actually I was in Seattle yesterday looking at a SkyScan "atomic" clock, and it agreed with NIST time.gov applet, yet I was thrown off by some Android-based applications such as Sidereal or TAI Clock and Converter, that display "UTC", whereas it is apparently Android system time. Whereas Android system time has been GPS-disciplined for about two years (bug 5485), very few "smart" phones overcame the issue. Also most Android ntp-based applications that I used until recently under Android 2.2 did not work with 2.3 and that's the reason I used Sidereal or TAI Clock and Converter. I finally resorted to UTC time, that truly retrieves UTC via ntp, and now back in NY last night, all seems fine, except that Google, OHA and other parties involved (who were informed of the Android bug way back) should make sure that no one displays "UTC" in any Market application unless it's derived from a relevant source. It's dangerous enough that a good portion of Android phones are 15 seconds fast, even though a carrier like Sprint is sending a pretty accurate UTC stream even to basic phones. Thanks to all, Christopher On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 12:02, Chris Albertson wrote: > On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 7:16 AM, Christopher Quarksnow > wrote: > > Wondering whether anyone can clarify what discipline the Boulder, CO NIST > > facility is broadcasting (or showing on time.gov) and qualified as "The > > official U.S. time". > > It appears to be about 20 seconds slower than UTC > > I think something must be wrong with the way you are measuring. > Propagation can't time add 20 seconds Can you explain exactly what > how you are measuring. > > Chris Albertson > Redondo Beach, California > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > I was actually in Seattle looking at a SkyScan clock that concurred with NIST and now bac
Re: [time-nuts] manuals, anyone?
Didier, I've been on your website, and it is a good one. Great job, and thanks for the manuals I've downloaded. Best, Will *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 8/4/2011 at 7:24 PM shali...@gmail.com wrote: >I have about 25 GB of manuals on my web site www.ko4bb.com, with new uploads almost daily, and unlimited storage space. Feel free to upload to your heart content :) > >Didier KO4BB > >Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things... > >-Original Message- >From: li...@lazygranch.com >Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com >Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 16:39:05 >To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >Reply-To: li...@lazygranch.com, > Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > >Subject: Re: [time-nuts] manuals, anyone? > >I used BAMA as an example. If there really is a problem storing manuals online, it wouldn't be difficult to start a similar website. > >I'm going to check with a contact I have at archive.org to see if they want to store manuals. > >I have over 20GB of manuals on my desktop. >-Original Message- >From: "Dave M" >Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com >Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 11:08:46 >To: >Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > >Subject: Re: [time-nuts] manuals, anyone? > >>> I think a simple solution is anyone that gets a free manual has to >>> scan it and upload it to BAMA or some other free manual website. >> >> Nice in theory. Unlikely to work in practice, IMO. >> >> BAMA is a laudible effort, but in practice many documents aree not >> well scanned and some are nearly useless. >> >>> It is unrealistic to expect one person to scan filing cabinets worth >>> of manuals, but to spread the task around makes sense. >> >> Dave has done it. >> >> YMMV, >> >> -John > >BAMA is kinda strange nowadays. According to the note on the edebris mirror >page, the main BAMA site has been down for "repairs and upgrades" since >9/17/2009; almost 2 years ago. Will the main site ever come back online, or >has it been written off permanently? >Also, as I remember, there was a note somewhere on the site that the >owner(s) of the BAMA site were no longer accepting manuals for test >equipment... only real "boat anchors" such as tube type radios, ham gear, >etc. Am I remembering correctly, or was there a different restriction or >has the restriction been removed? I know that I tried to upload a couple >Tektronix manuals that I had scanned, but they never showed up on the site. > >David >dgminala at mediacombb dot net > > > > >___ >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >and follow the instructions there. >___ >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >and follow the instructions there. >___ >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >and follow the instructions there. > >__ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5851 (20110206) __ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] manuals, anyone?
Actually, Ken had permission from several to host the manuals, including HP. What happened, and what he told me, was the number of users on the server was number one, and thus, the mirror. If any recall, it was hard to get a download spot, unless it was in the late hours, right before he shut that servers download abilities down. It is also a school server, and they were supposed to upgrade, and then there was the whole Heathkit crock, at the time, which he and I talked about a few months back. By the way, he sent me all those Heathkit goodies to host, and if anyone is interested, e-mail me. It will be later this fall before I can finish cleaning them all up, and placing them on a non-US server. Right now, you might try the Ebaman site, as he accepts all manual uploads, and is growing by leaps. http://www.ebaman.com/index.php/home Best, Will *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 8/4/2011 at 12:05 PM Jim Lux wrote: >On 8/4/11 9:08 AM, Dave M wrote: >hn >> >> BAMA is kinda strange nowadays. According to the note on the edebris >> mirror page, the main BAMA site has been down for "repairs and upgrades" >> since 9/17/2009; almost 2 years ago. Will the main site ever come back >> online, or has it been written off permanently? >> Also, as I remember, there was a note somewhere on the site that the >> owner(s) of the BAMA site were no longer accepting manuals for test >> equipment... only real "boat anchors" such as tube type radios, ham >> gear, etc. Am I remembering correctly, or was there a different >> restriction or has the restriction been removed? I know that I tried to >> upload a couple Tektronix manuals that I had scanned, but they never >> showed up on the site. > >maybe copyright concerns.. a boat anchor that has a manual from a mfr >that is out of business is low risk to host. > > > >___ >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >and follow the instructions there. > >__ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5851 (20110206) __ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] manuals, anyone?
I have about 25 GB of manuals on my web site www.ko4bb.com, with new uploads almost daily, and unlimited storage space. Feel free to upload to your heart content :) Didier KO4BB Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things... -Original Message- From: li...@lazygranch.com Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 16:39:05 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Reply-To: li...@lazygranch.com, Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] manuals, anyone? I used BAMA as an example. If there really is a problem storing manuals online, it wouldn't be difficult to start a similar website. I'm going to check with a contact I have at archive.org to see if they want to store manuals. I have over 20GB of manuals on my desktop. -Original Message- From: "Dave M" Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 11:08:46 To: Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] manuals, anyone? >> I think a simple solution is anyone that gets a free manual has to >> scan it and upload it to BAMA or some other free manual website. > > Nice in theory. Unlikely to work in practice, IMO. > > BAMA is a laudible effort, but in practice many documents aree not > well scanned and some are nearly useless. > >> It is unrealistic to expect one person to scan filing cabinets worth >> of manuals, but to spread the task around makes sense. > > Dave has done it. > > YMMV, > > -John BAMA is kinda strange nowadays. According to the note on the edebris mirror page, the main BAMA site has been down for "repairs and upgrades" since 9/17/2009; almost 2 years ago. Will the main site ever come back online, or has it been written off permanently? Also, as I remember, there was a note somewhere on the site that the owner(s) of the BAMA site were no longer accepting manuals for test equipment... only real "boat anchors" such as tube type radios, ham gear, etc. Am I remembering correctly, or was there a different restriction or has the restriction been removed? I know that I tried to upload a couple Tektronix manuals that I had scanned, but they never showed up on the site. David dgminala at mediacombb dot net ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] manuals, anyone?
On 8/4/11 9:08 AM, Dave M wrote: hn BAMA is kinda strange nowadays. According to the note on the edebris mirror page, the main BAMA site has been down for "repairs and upgrades" since 9/17/2009; almost 2 years ago. Will the main site ever come back online, or has it been written off permanently? Also, as I remember, there was a note somewhere on the site that the owner(s) of the BAMA site were no longer accepting manuals for test equipment... only real "boat anchors" such as tube type radios, ham gear, etc. Am I remembering correctly, or was there a different restriction or has the restriction been removed? I know that I tried to upload a couple Tektronix manuals that I had scanned, but they never showed up on the site. maybe copyright concerns.. a boat anchor that has a manual from a mfr that is out of business is low risk to host. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] What is NIST "official time" ?
Actually I was in Seattle yesterday looking at a SkyScan "atomic" clock, and it agreed with NIST time.gov applet, yet I was thrown off by some Android-based applications such as Sidereal or TAI Clock and Converter, that display "UTC", whereas it is apparently Android system time. Whereas Android system time has been GPS-disciplined for about two years (bug 5485), very few "smart" phones overcame the issue. Also most Android ntp-based applications that I used until recently under Android 2.2 did not work with 2.3 and that's the reason I used Sidereal or TAI Clock and Converter. I finally resorted to UTC time, that truly retrieves UTC via ntp, and now back in NY last night, all seems fine, except that Google, OHA and other parties involved (who were informed of the Android bug way back) should make sure that no one displays "UTC" in any Market application unless it's derived from a relevant source. It's dangerous enough that a good portion of Android phones are 15 seconds fast, even though a carrier like Sprint is sending a pretty accurate UTC stream even to basic phones. Thanks to all, Christopher On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 12:02, Chris Albertson wrote: > On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 7:16 AM, Christopher Quarksnow > wrote: > > Wondering whether anyone can clarify what discipline the Boulder, CO NIST > > facility is broadcasting (or showing on time.gov) and qualified as "The > > official U.S. time". > > It appears to be about 20 seconds slower than UTC > > I think something must be wrong with the way you are measuring. > Propagation can't time add 20 seconds Can you explain exactly what > how you are measuring. > > Chris Albertson > Redondo Beach, California > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > I was actually in Seattle looking at a SkyScan clock that concurred with NIST and now back in New York today, seems I had an issue with Android Sidereal software that claimed UTC, yet derived such UTC value from Android system clock. Whereas I thought that the Android system clock was right (namely Android bug 5485 was offset in the phone I was using), it actually was not. I have alerted the author of sidereal software. There seem to be a transition issue ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] What is NIST "official time" ?
Shades of LDE. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_delayed_echo From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Anthony G. Atkielski [anth...@atkielski.com] Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 11:09 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] What is NIST "official time" ? For what it's worth, I just checked my NTP-synchronized time on my computers with NIST time in Boulder (via telephone), and they are right on the money, allowing for the slight propagation delay. Certainly nowhere near 20 seconds apart, more like 100 ms apart. -- Anthony ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] What is NIST "official time" ?
For what it's worth, I just checked my NTP-synchronized time on my computers with NIST time in Boulder (via telephone), and they are right on the money, allowing for the slight propagation delay. Certainly nowhere near 20 seconds apart, more like 100 ms apart. -- Anthony ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] What is NIST "official time" ?
Don't recall if this was already suggested. but could he be using GPS time as his local reference? Right now that's ~16 seconds off from UTC and the correction offset is in the GPS data stream, but you have to remember to use it. -Brian, WA1ZMS - Original Message From: Bob Camp To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Sent: Thu, August 4, 2011 12:40:04 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] What is NIST "official time" ? Hi A few ideas for checking things out: If you check your reference against CHU or one of the other standard stations what do you see? They all are transmitting UTC, so they should agree. Propagation delay from half way around the earth is around 67 ms (12.5K miles / 186282 miles per second). That's pretty small compared to a 20 second error. Any time station anywhere would do fine as something to check against. Another check would be to lock up a computer via NTP and see what it shows compared to your reference. Even a "bad" NTP setup will be plenty good enough to help troubleshoot something like this. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chris Albertson Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 12:02 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] What is NIST "official time" ? On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 7:16 AM, Christopher Quarksnow wrote: > Wondering whether anyone can clarify what discipline the Boulder, CO NIST > facility is broadcasting (or showing on time.gov) and qualified as "The > official U.S. time". > It appears to be about 20 seconds slower than UTC I think something must be wrong with the way you are measuring. Propagation can't time add 20 seconds Can you explain exactly what how you are measuring. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] manuals, anyone?
If somebody wanted to do something really useful, they would build a meta search engine for manuals, that with one query would check the host of manual sites out there. I'm sick of Google hits for some equipment dealers that show up for every possible catalog number, whether they have the item or not. Most recently, I was looking for a Tektronix part. Warbird Parts kept coming up, but were useless. Apparently they have entered every possible NSN into a database and Google finds it. IMO, the problem is more finding manuals than anything. YMMF, -John ==g > I used BAMA as an example. If there really is a problem storing manuals > online, it wouldn't be difficult to start a similar website. > > I'm going to check with a contact I have at archive.org to see if they > want to store manuals. > > I have over 20GB of manuals on my desktop. > -Original Message- > From: "Dave M" > Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com > Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 11:08:46 > To: > Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] manuals, anyone? > >>> I think a simple solution is anyone that gets a free manual has to >>> scan it and upload it to BAMA or some other free manual website. >> >> Nice in theory. Unlikely to work in practice, IMO. >> >> BAMA is a laudible effort, but in practice many documents aree not >> well scanned and some are nearly useless. >> >>> It is unrealistic to expect one person to scan filing cabinets worth >>> of manuals, but to spread the task around makes sense. >> >> Dave has done it. >> >> YMMV, >> >> -John > > BAMA is kinda strange nowadays. According to the note on the edebris > mirror > page, the main BAMA site has been down for "repairs and upgrades" since > 9/17/2009; almost 2 years ago. Will the main site ever come back online, > or > has it been written off permanently? > Also, as I remember, there was a note somewhere on the site that the > owner(s) of the BAMA site were no longer accepting manuals for test > equipment... only real "boat anchors" such as tube type radios, ham gear, > etc. Am I remembering correctly, or was there a different restriction or > has the restriction been removed? I know that I tried to upload a couple > Tektronix manuals that I had scanned, but they never showed up on the > site. > > David > dgminala at mediacombb dot net > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] manuals, anyone?
I used BAMA as an example. If there really is a problem storing manuals online, it wouldn't be difficult to start a similar website. I'm going to check with a contact I have at archive.org to see if they want to store manuals. I have over 20GB of manuals on my desktop. -Original Message- From: "Dave M" Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 11:08:46 To: Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] manuals, anyone? >> I think a simple solution is anyone that gets a free manual has to >> scan it and upload it to BAMA or some other free manual website. > > Nice in theory. Unlikely to work in practice, IMO. > > BAMA is a laudible effort, but in practice many documents aree not > well scanned and some are nearly useless. > >> It is unrealistic to expect one person to scan filing cabinets worth >> of manuals, but to spread the task around makes sense. > > Dave has done it. > > YMMV, > > -John BAMA is kinda strange nowadays. According to the note on the edebris mirror page, the main BAMA site has been down for "repairs and upgrades" since 9/17/2009; almost 2 years ago. Will the main site ever come back online, or has it been written off permanently? Also, as I remember, there was a note somewhere on the site that the owner(s) of the BAMA site were no longer accepting manuals for test equipment... only real "boat anchors" such as tube type radios, ham gear, etc. Am I remembering correctly, or was there a different restriction or has the restriction been removed? I know that I tried to upload a couple Tektronix manuals that I had scanned, but they never showed up on the site. David dgminala at mediacombb dot net ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] What is NIST "official time" ?
Hi A few ideas for checking things out: If you check your reference against CHU or one of the other standard stations what do you see? They all are transmitting UTC, so they should agree. Propagation delay from half way around the earth is around 67 ms (12.5K miles / 186282 miles per second). That's pretty small compared to a 20 second error. Any time station anywhere would do fine as something to check against. Another check would be to lock up a computer via NTP and see what it shows compared to your reference. Even a "bad" NTP setup will be plenty good enough to help troubleshoot something like this. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chris Albertson Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 12:02 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] What is NIST "official time" ? On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 7:16 AM, Christopher Quarksnow wrote: > Wondering whether anyone can clarify what discipline the Boulder, CO NIST > facility is broadcasting (or showing on time.gov) and qualified as "The > official U.S. time". > It appears to be about 20 seconds slower than UTC I think something must be wrong with the way you are measuring. Propagation can't time add 20 seconds Can you explain exactly what how you are measuring. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] manuals, anyone?
I think a simple solution is anyone that gets a free manual has to scan it and upload it to BAMA or some other free manual website. Nice in theory. Unlikely to work in practice, IMO. BAMA is a laudible effort, but in practice many documents aree not well scanned and some are nearly useless. It is unrealistic to expect one person to scan filing cabinets worth of manuals, but to spread the task around makes sense. Dave has done it. YMMV, -John BAMA is kinda strange nowadays. According to the note on the edebris mirror page, the main BAMA site has been down for "repairs and upgrades" since 9/17/2009; almost 2 years ago. Will the main site ever come back online, or has it been written off permanently? Also, as I remember, there was a note somewhere on the site that the owner(s) of the BAMA site were no longer accepting manuals for test equipment... only real "boat anchors" such as tube type radios, ham gear, etc. Am I remembering correctly, or was there a different restriction or has the restriction been removed? I know that I tried to upload a couple Tektronix manuals that I had scanned, but they never showed up on the site. David dgminala at mediacombb dot net ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] What is NIST "official time" ?
On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 7:16 AM, Christopher Quarksnow wrote: > Wondering whether anyone can clarify what discipline the Boulder, CO NIST > facility is broadcasting (or showing on time.gov) and qualified as "The > official U.S. time". > It appears to be about 20 seconds slower than UTC I think something must be wrong with the way you are measuring. Propagation can't time add 20 seconds Can you explain exactly what how you are measuring. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] manuals, anyone?
> I think a simple solution is anyone that gets a free manual has to scan it > and upload it to BAMA or some other free manual website. Nice in theory. Unlikely to work in practice, IMO. BAMA is a laudible effort, but in practice many documents aree not well scanned and some are nearly useless. > It is unrealistic to expect one person to scan filing cabinets worth of > manuals, but to spread the task around makes sense. Dave has done it. YMMV, -John > > > > > -Original Message- > From: Pete Lancashire > Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com > Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 20:54:46 > To: ; Discussion of precise time and frequency > measurement > Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] manuals, anyone? > > i was thinking send them all to Dave let him scan the ones he has not > scanned. > > Sure better then them ending up in a paper-recycle dropbox > > -pete > > On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 8:37 PM, J. Forster wrote: >> Or returns them to the owner, as appropriate. >> >> -John >> >> >> >> >>> I'll 3rd DAVE is the way to go. And when he is done, he sells them at >>> a very reasonable price. >>> >>> -pete Both supplier and customer >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 6:12 PM, paul swed wrote: I have to agree with John. Dave is reasonable and does a really excellent job. Well worth his price and he has gotten me out of a jam many times. On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 8:56 PM, J. Forster wrote: > PLEASE contact Dave at ArtekMedia (dot) com. He is the best resource > I > know for manuals. > > I'm far less impressed with "university" resources for such things. > IMO, > the stuff jusr vanishes. > > Dave's business is scanning manuals so everybody can have them for > very > reasonable prices. > > YMMV, > > -John > > > > > > > Hi all-- > > > > Long story short, a department at a university needs to get rid of > a > > bunch (5-6 file cabinets worth) of 80's vintage user and service > > manuals for Tek (mostly) and HP equipment. ÃÂ Oscilloscopes, > generators, > > etc. ÃÂ 70s/80s/90s vintage? > > > > The guy in charge (not me) of this is really trying to do the right > > thing and see if the university digital collections can scan them > or > > something like that. ÃÂ No idea where that's going to go...but... > > > > Modulo any copyright issues, are there any boatanchor-type manuals > > needed by anyone and aren't available for download from the usual > > suspects -- Agilent, BAMA, etc? ÃÂ I know there are some vintage > HP > > manuals I've downloaded which are great -- but could use some > better > > resolution on a few key schematics...they're on *my* list... > > > > Requests for the original hardcopy will also be noted. > > > > If so, please take a moment and reply to me off-list and I'll make > a > > note of what's in demand. ÃÂ I haven't posted anywhere else, but > may > > post on some other ham/microwave/vhf-type lists later. > > > > I can't promise anything. ÃÂ But I'll see what can happen. > > > > best-- > > --Tim WO9U > > tczerwonka at gmail dot com > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nut
Re: [time-nuts] manuals, anyone?
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 7:21 PM, T. Czerwonka wrote: > Hi all-- > > Long story short, a department at a university needs to get rid of a > bunch (5-6 file cabinets worth) of 80's vintage user and service > manuals for Tek (mostly) and HP equipment. Oscilloscopes, generators, > etc. 70s/80s/90s vintage? > [...] Hi all-- I've received a few responses with specific models -- what I *should* have done yesterday was to use my crummy cellphone camera and image the spines/covers of what was there. Way too much to write down at that time. In any case, my DSLR is on my desk for the next visit. Suggestions to contact Dave at Artek Media also noted -- that's almost certainly the best solution, I'm glad I asked. I will do that after I have a list of what's there. thanks-- --Tim WO9U ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] What is NIST "official time" ?
What is your reference for UTC time. It appears Boulder is broadcasting the correct values for UTC, so the next element to examine is the reference to which you are comparing Boulder's broadcasts. Could it be GPS time? John WA4WDL -- From: "Mike S" Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 10:36 AM To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" Subject: Re: [time-nuts] What is NIST "official time" ? At 10:16 AM 8/4/2011, Christopher Quarksnow wrote... Wondering whether anyone can clarify what discipline the Boulder, CO NIST facility is broadcasting (or showing on time.gov) and qualified as "The official U.S. time". It appears to be about 20 seconds slower than UTC and I could not find the relation to other known time scales such as TAI, UTC, ET, UT1, GPS or possibly grid or broadcast-interconnected reference. NIST broadcasts UTC, they even say so in the broadcast - "At the tone...Coordinated Universal Time". http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp40/wwv_format.cfm ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Weird TEC data
At 03:27 AM 8/4/2011, Bill Hawkins wrote:
What that means is, that if the two locations representing the
red and green traces are on the same grid then there should be
less than one cycle difference between them at all times.
That's what I was expecting.
NTP can't be causing the jumps because the difference increases
with time. You would see the displayed time difference change
as well.
Agreed. Both machines are running Munin, which makes pretty graphs
of ntp data. tock shows ntp kernel estimated error of (avg/min/max)
1.72ms / 538us / 6.43ms over the last week. sparc is 1.37ms / 493us / 3.18ms.
I should copy the Munin data to the webserver tonight...it's also
doing live plots of the 60Hz error and frequency (1s, 60s, 600s, and
3600s moving averages).
Since that is not the result that you have, it is time to
calibrate your equipment. I'd start with the line frequency sensor
looking for dropped cycles.
tock might have dirty power--the embedded device shut down a couple
of times last month until I put a batt on it. Then again, someone
may have turned it off for me. sparc and its front end are on a
consumer grade UPS, tock and its front end are not. Now there is a
big old Sola line conditioner that I could add to tock at lunch.
It's possible that different computers running different other
programs could drop different numbers of points. What are they
doing when the steep drops in difference occur?
I doubt that the computers could be at fault. The front-end device
is counting cycles and transmitting it to the computer serial port
("+0123456789\r"), and then the computer timestamps the start char
("+") and reads the cycle count.
My new $10 webcam isn't setup yet (at sparc's location), so I don't
have my backup timelapse clock photo data source available.
I'm considering mods to the embedded hardware to increase noise
rejection--wait for 60 hz edge, start timer for (say) 15 ms, don't
look for next edge until timer expires.
--
newell N5TNL
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Re: [time-nuts] What is NIST "official time" ?
See from here (France), it is right on time with my M12T GPS, at least when I display them side by side oçn my screen. Seems to be better than the 0.4 s accuracy annouced. The derivation of NIST time is described here: http://www.time.gov/about.html Best regards, Jean-Louis - Original Message - From: "Christopher Quarksnow" To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 2:16 PM Subject: [time-nuts] What is NIST "official time" ? Wondering whether anyone can clarify what discipline the Boulder, CO NIST facility is broadcasting (or showing on time.gov) and qualified as "The official U.S. time". It appears to be about 20 seconds slower than UTC and I could not find the relation to other known time scales such as TAI, UTC, ET, UT1, GPS or possibly grid or broadcast-interconnected reference. Thanks ! ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] What is NIST "official time" ?
At 10:16 AM 8/4/2011, Christopher Quarksnow wrote... Wondering whether anyone can clarify what discipline the Boulder, CO NIST facility is broadcasting (or showing on time.gov) and qualified as "The official U.S. time". It appears to be about 20 seconds slower than UTC and I could not find the relation to other known time scales such as TAI, UTC, ET, UT1, GPS or possibly grid or broadcast-interconnected reference. NIST broadcasts UTC, they even say so in the broadcast - "At the tone...Coordinated Universal Time". http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp40/wwv_format.cfm ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] What is NIST "official time" ?
Wondering whether anyone can clarify what discipline the Boulder, CO NIST facility is broadcasting (or showing on time.gov) and qualified as "The official U.S. time". It appears to be about 20 seconds slower than UTC and I could not find the relation to other known time scales such as TAI, UTC, ET, UT1, GPS or possibly grid or broadcast-interconnected reference. Thanks ! ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Weird TEC data
On 08/04/2011 10:31 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message, "Bill Hawkins" writes: Could you please explain how transformer phase lags could jump? When one power plant ramps up and another ramps down, the power flow reverses in some transformers and transmission lines. If the shifts you see has this cause, you should see them in both directions over time (weeks, months). Notice how the big jumps down matches the beginning of the steep direction down. It is interesting to note that there is also a tendency for the diff curve to go down even for the upward direction. Notice how the diff moves upwards only occasionally and with a much smaller amplitude. Could there be a systematic cycle slip one one of the sites? I would hook up the probes on the same site such that they see the same signal to see if there is a difference between them. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Weird TEC data
In message , "Bill Hawkins" writes: >Could you please explain how transformer phase lags could jump? When one power plant ramps up and another ramps down, the power flow reverses in some transformers and transmission lines. If the shifts you see has this cause, you should see them in both directions over time (weeks, months). -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Weird TEC data
Could you please explain how transformer phase lags could jump? As I understand synchronous generators tied to a common grid, it is not possible for them to have large phase angle differences under normal conditions. Losing a whole cycle would cause forces that could damage the machine. What that means is, that if the two locations representing the red and green traces are on the same grid then there should be less than one cycle difference between them at all times. NTP can't be causing the jumps because the difference increases with time. You would see the displayed time difference change as well. Since that is not the result that you have, it is time to calibrate your equipment. I'd start with the line frequency sensor looking for dropped cycles. It's possible that different computers running different other programs could drop different numbers of points. What are they doing when the steep drops in difference occur? Is anyone else running a similar experiment? Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 1:13 AM The jumps in the difference looks a lot like transformer phase-lag in the grid, but the real test is to collect more data and see if you ever see the difference move the other way. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
