Re: [time-nuts] Toys for time-nuts in old-folks home
This strikes me as an untapped market for chip-scale atomic clocks. -RL --- Robert Lutwak | Symmetricom®, Inc. Chief Scientist 34 Tozer Road, Beverly, MA 01915 Direct: 978.232.1461 | Cell: 339.927.7896 rlut...@symmetricom.com | www.symmetricom.com Symmetricom. Leading the world in precise time solutions. -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Hal Murray Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 9:54 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] Toys for time-nuts in old-folks home The cure for time-nuttery is to get old, and realize that your collection of equipment will prevent you from being able to move to assisted living. You mean you can't take it with you?! It will (hopefully) be a long time before I get to that point, because it sounds boring already. Suppose you are moving into an old folks home where you have limited space. What toys would you take with you? How would you decide? My mom is in a 1 bedroom apartment in an old-folks complex. Aside from the bedroom and such, it's got a main living room and a smaller den type room. Her PC is in the den closet which is 4-6 ?? feet wide and 2-3 feet deep. Let's assume you are willing to devote a whole large closet to time-nuttery. Maybe that space has to include your PC and modem and printer and ... toolbox and parts ... Option 2 would be to allocate the whole den. Well, maybe you need to save room for a couch and TV. -- How much space would you need in your bookcase? I like hardcopy, but I think that's more important when I'm doing detailed design. If I'm chasing a glitch (hardware or software) I think I could get along with a web browser. That probably assumes a big-enough local disk to save a copy of anything I decide is interesting. -- A while ago, I saw a note on some electronics discussion context about somebody being happy as long as he had a soldering iron and something-or-other. I don't use a soldering iron very often, but when I do it's the sort of thing that's hard to buy off of ebay. It might be possible to store the soldering iron and parts under the bed, planning to only pull them out when needed. Another possibility would be to find some place in the local area to donate your soldering iron and parts and such with the hopes that you can use them when needed. Maybe a friend, or club, or ... -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE5680 temperature question
considering how important temperature is to the frequency accuracy I would only consider fan cooling. For less than $ 10 you can have a system that will hold the temperature at 43 C. The fan is very quit. To get best performance I would cover all sides except the bottom plate with foam. I have run tests and with the fan running all the time at 25 C ambient the unit is held at 38 C figuring 5 C margin for change in ambient is plenty. After testing many fan solutions and evaluating performance I now use item 180780456923 for any thing that has to cool up to 13 W reliably. It is a copper heat sink/fan and all you need is a 1/16 aluminum plate, a top cover with the fan cut out to make sure the air moves over the fins (for testing I even used tape!) and a fan controller, all this can be done for less than $ 10. In my case it is more complex because I am installing it in a small case along with a Morion OCXO but the same fan is on the back. L shaped aluminum plates are on top and bottom bringing the heat out to the back, something I have already used successfully with a FRS Bert Kehren In a message dated 1/20/2012 10:34:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, paulsw...@gmail.com writes: I added a heat sink to the FE5680. Curious what temperatures have been measured after an hour warm up. Before heat sink 120 F top and bottom. With heat sink on the bottom quite a large one. Top of case free air 105 F Bottom 105 F Internal, (screw out of the end and touching the internal heat sink) 111-113F. Whats a good temperature to be shooting for? Thanks Regards Paul WB8TSL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] TimeLab and HP53132A
Hi all, Do you have some experience with TimeLab connected with a TIC HP53132A? My trouble is as follow: using the default setup and acquiring for 1 hour, I can see on display the graph vary (as magnitude)every 1 second count, like the event counter each second up to 3600,but the x (time) display show 1800 seconds as total acquisition time over a real 3600 seconds spent. Looking the graphic when I start the acquisition I can see a shape modification every second but the time axis advance only 1 second every two real seconds. This happen also with the newest verson of Time Lab. Setting 2 second sample, an other tentative to modify the configuration fail, can some one with the HP53132A help me? luciano Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti IZ5JHJ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. Sent to you using Uebimiau Webmail version 3.11 Developed by Dave and Todd at http://www.manvel.net and http://www.tdah.us ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TimeLab and HP53132A
Serial port communication, GPIB or what else? On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Timeok tim...@timeok.it wrote: Hi all, Do you have some experience with TimeLab connected with a TIC HP53132A? My trouble is as follow: using the default setup and acquiring for 1 hour, I can see on display the graph vary (as magnitude)every 1 second count, like the event counter each second up to 3600,but the x (time) display show 1800 seconds as total acquisition time over a real 3600 seconds spent. Looking the graphic when I start the acquisition I can see a shape modification every second but the time axis advance only 1 second every two real seconds. This happen also with the newest verson of Time Lab. Setting 2 second sample, an other tentative to modify the configuration fail, can some one with the HP53132A help me? luciano Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti IZ5JHJ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. Sent to you using Uebimiau Webmail version 3.11 Developed by Dave and Todd at http://www.manvel.net and http://www.tdah.us ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TimeLab and HP53132A
National GPIB thanks, Luciano -- Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti IZ5JHJ - Original Message From: Azelio Boriani azelio.bori...@screen.it To: Timeok tim...@timeok.it, Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] TimeLab and HP53132A Date: Jan 21, 2012 03:41 PM Serial port communication, GPIB or what else?On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Timeok lt;tim...@timeok.itgt; wrote: Hi all, Do you have some experience with TimeLab connected with a TIC HP53132A? My trouble is as follow: using the default setup and acquiring for 1 hour, I can see on display the graph vary (as magnitude)every 1 second count, like the event counter each second up to 3600,but the x (time) display show 1800 seconds as total acquisition time over a real 3600 seconds spent. Looking the graphic when I start the acquisition I can see a shape modification every second but the time axis advance only 1 second every two real seconds. This happen also with the newest verson of Time Lab. Setting 2 second sample, an other tentative to modify the configuration fail, can some one with the HP53132A help me? luciano Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti IZ5JHJ gt; ___ gt; time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com gt; To unsubscribe, go to gt; https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts gt; and follow the instructions there. gt; gt; ___ gt; time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com gt; To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts gt; and follow the instructions there. gt; Sent to you using Uebimiau Webmail version 3.11 Developed by Dave and Todd at http://www.manvel.net and http://www.tdah.us ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. Sent to you using Uebimiau Webmail version 3.11 Developed by Dave and Todd at http://www.manvel.net and http://www.tdah.us ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 - SWCC clock
Jim, If your Western Union clock is similar to the type used in broadcasting, you might want a setting pulse that starts at 59:59 and ends at 00:00 . The reason is that at 59:59 the magnet pulls the second hand to the 12 o'clock position and releases it on the hour. The one-second difference might seem trivial, but it's actually about three words for an announcer beginning a network broadcast. When Western Union got out of the clock business in the late 1970s (following a technician strike where the master clocks were ignored and service deteriorated) the company I worked for purchased the clock installation from Western Union (for $75 per clock as I remember) and we installed a digital master system. The Western Union clocks were all connected in series and driven as a constant-current teletype type loop. We had wire-wrap logic panels associated with the digital master time system. Signals for the W. U. clocks, for alerting control rooms before newscasts, starting recordings, etc., were implemented by simply adding chips, DIP relays, 14/16-pin boards with components such as timing capacitors, and wire-wraping the underside pins. I/O was implemented with those 14 and 16-pin DIP connectors on one end of ribbon cables -- the other ends being terminated on barrier strips on rack wall panels. Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] mixers for frequency measurement
On 01/20/2012 02:54 PM, Ulrich Bangert wrote: Bob, ~2x10^-10 you can do this with a good frequency counter, no mixers needed. ~2x10^-11 you can do this with a very good /hard to find / expensive frequency counter. 1.0x10^-11 pretty easy, nothing very fancy required for a single mixer approach. 1.0x10^-12 works fine with an RPD-1 and some care, but not a lot of crazy stuff 1.0x10^-13 you need some attention to detail, and may need a better mixer. 1.0x10^-14 can I come live at your house? If you have this sort of stuff, the cost of a fancier test setup should be a minor issue. 1.0x10^-15 indeed people do measure this stuff. Proving accuracy at this level involves a lot of work on secondary effects. In general I agree to all these numbers. I just want to point to the fact that a HP5370 or a SR620 allow for a kind of high resolution mode. This is a mode in which the counter is externally armed to make 1000 TI measurements per seconds and display the mean of them. Which gives a SQRT(1000) improvement of all counter related non systematic errors. My experiments with a SR620 indicate a 6E-13 noise floor for Tau = 1s without any need for mixing for two 10 MHz sources. Naturally this works ok only for source frequencies= 1000 Hz ( The higher the frequency the less trigger noise ). For those of us who have no access to H2-masers or BVA-oscillators as a reference this may be not exactly an overkill but quite good to characterize HP10811/FTS1000(1200) or the like not to mention anything worse than that. Such block averages will indeed improve resolution, but one has to recall that the block-summing causes a pre-filtering shifting the counters effective bandwidth. Once that is considered (really just an issue for sources of noise over-shining the instruments contribution) it will be fine. The end result will be that the instrument limit slope hits the level of the stable source much earlier. I will try to spend some more effort to see if there are further theoretical limitations to consider. It's more of a practical limitation of getting all those readouts that I wonder about. I consider hooking up a FPGA board on the back of the HP5372A high speed interface to see what that gives me. I also have another project on a FPGA ongoing with a DDMTD test, but last time I tried things I ended up with a tool problem. Some of the GPIB interfaces used, can have serious rate limits. So, do elaborate some of what you have done. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] mixers for frequency measurement
Magnus, The end result will be that the instrument limit slope hits the level of the stable source much earlier. Can you elaborate this claim a bit more? I Think I do not understand it in the correct way. It's more of a practical limitation of getting all those readouts that I wonder about. It is not all those readouts! The counters do the averaging inside, giving an overall measurement rate of 1/s. the external arming of 1000/s is just for keeping Tau exactly at 1s. I also have another project on a FPGA ongoing with a DDMTD test, but last time I tried things I ended up with a tool problem. I would never claim that FPGAs are bad for time nuts projects in general but my own experiences (I tried things like programmable dividers, linear phase comparators and ps TI interval measurements) with FPGAs have all shown heavy problems because of unwanted analogue like interactions inside the FPGA that are difficult to deal with since we lack to opportunity to put a blocking C here ore there inside the FPGA. These effects in the sub nanosecond region are irrelevant for all other kind of electronics including VERY fast logic but the can be a disaster for time nuts. Best regards Ulrich Am 21.01.2012 um 17:27 schrieb Magnus Danielson: On 01/20/2012 02:54 PM, Ulrich Bangert wrote: Bob, ~2x10^-10 you can do this with a good frequency counter, no mixers needed. ~2x10^-11 you can do this with a very good /hard to find / expensive frequency counter. 1.0x10^-11 pretty easy, nothing very fancy required for a single mixer approach. 1.0x10^-12 works fine with an RPD-1 and some care, but not a lot of crazy stuff 1.0x10^-13 you need some attention to detail, and may need a better mixer. 1.0x10^-14 can I come live at your house? If you have this sort of stuff, the cost of a fancier test setup should be a minor issue. 1.0x10^-15 indeed people do measure this stuff. Proving accuracy at this level involves a lot of work on secondary effects. In general I agree to all these numbers. I just want to point to the fact that a HP5370 or a SR620 allow for a kind of high resolution mode. This is a mode in which the counter is externally armed to make 1000 TI measurements per seconds and display the mean of them. Which gives a SQRT(1000) improvement of all counter related non systematic errors. My experiments with a SR620 indicate a 6E-13 noise floor for Tau = 1s without any need for mixing for two 10 MHz sources. Naturally this works ok only for source frequencies= 1000 Hz ( The higher the frequency the less trigger noise ). For those of us who have no access to H2-masers or BVA-oscillators as a reference this may be not exactly an overkill but quite good to characterize HP10811/FTS1000(1200) or the like not to mention anything worse than that. Such block averages will indeed improve resolution, but one has to recall that the block-summing causes a pre-filtering shifting the counters effective bandwidth. Once that is considered (really just an issue for sources of noise over-shining the instruments contribution) it will be fine. The end result will be that the instrument limit slope hits the level of the stable source much earlier. I will try to spend some more effort to see if there are further theoretical limitations to consider. It's more of a practical limitation of getting all those readouts that I wonder about. I consider hooking up a FPGA board on the back of the HP5372A high speed interface to see what that gives me. I also have another project on a FPGA ongoing with a DDMTD test, but last time I tried things I ended up with a tool problem. Some of the GPIB interfaces used, can have serious rate limits. So, do elaborate some of what you have done. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. Ulrich Bangert Ortholzer Weg1 27243 Gross Ippener Deutschland Tel +49 (0)4224 95071 Fax +49 (0)4224 95072 Mob +49 (0)172 8006546 www.ulrich-bangert.de ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Results with second FE5680A
This is a phase plot of my number two 5680a vs Thunderbolt. The X axis is in seconds, Y is phase difference measured by a Racal-Dana 1992 counter with GPIB interface. The big spikes are markers representing human interaction, typically changing the frequency offset command. I calculate the daily drift to be about 5e-11 which compares to the spec of 2e-11 per day. The other 5680a, the one that pulls 340 ma from the 5 volts, is far better than this. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 attachment: rbB21.gif___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TimeLab and HP53132A
Do you have some experience with TimeLab connected with a TIC HP53132A? My trouble is as follow: using the default setup and acquiring for 1 hour, I can see on display the graph vary (as magnitude)every 1 second count, like the event counter each second up to 3600,but the x (time) display show 1800 seconds as total acquisition time over a real 3600 seconds spent. Looking the graphic when I start the acquisition I can see a shape modification every second but the time axis advance only 1 second every two real seconds. This happen also with the newest verson of Time Lab. Including the very newest ones from the past couple of weeks? Are you using the talk-only option, or the Acquire-HP 53131... option that I just added recently? When you use the 'Monitor' button in the acquisition dialog, do you see new data coming across at one line per second, or one line every two seconds? -- john ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Labeling project boxes/panels
I'm tired of setting up silkscreening for one-off or small lot projects, and am looking for new ways to neatly label panels (generally painted metal, sometimes bare metal or plastic). Preferably, something that can be done on-premises without needing to send graphics out and wait for delivery. I'd like to be able to do layouts on a pc -- at a minimum with letters and lines, and hopefully the capability to paste graphics, as well. I'm willing to overcoat the labeling if necessary (preferably with a spray rather than an adhesive film). Duty will generally be indoor, but I'd like the labeling to survive locations that get direct sun through a window. I'm familiar with the Dymo and Brother industrial tape labelers, but would like something that is not so confined to available tape widths (if I'm doing an overlay -- which I'm not in love with generally -- I'd like to overlay the whole panel). I don't know if the Scotchcal family of products has anything useful for this. I have heard of materials available for (laser?) printers that create water-soluble decals, but have not run across any. I know there are heat-transfer PC resist materials -- are there similar things oriented to panel labeling (this would not address plastic panels, I presume)? One potential drawback of printed solutions (where the actual toner or ink from the printer becomes the label) may be making light-colored labels for dark panels. Anything else people like? I know I said I disfavor sending out for overlays, but if anybody thinks really highly of this method, and can identify a good vendor, I'm willing to listen. Thanks, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Labeling project boxes/panels
There are a couple of products you should look at: 3M made something called ScotchCal. I think the line has been sold, but is still available. Also, the MetalPhoto process can be done in a home lab. I also think Staples can do it fairly cheaply from your 'puter files. -John === I'm tired of setting up silkscreening for one-off or small lot projects, and am looking for new ways to neatly label panels (generally painted metal, sometimes bare metal or plastic). Preferably, something that can be done on-premises without needing to send graphics out and wait for delivery. I'd like to be able to do layouts on a pc -- at a minimum with letters and lines, and hopefully the capability to paste graphics, as well. I'm willing to overcoat the labeling if necessary (preferably with a spray rather than an adhesive film). Duty will generally be indoor, but I'd like the labeling to survive locations that get direct sun through a window. I'm familiar with the Dymo and Brother industrial tape labelers, but would like something that is not so confined to available tape widths (if I'm doing an overlay -- which I'm not in love with generally -- I'd like to overlay the whole panel). I don't know if the Scotchcal family of products has anything useful for this. I have heard of materials available for (laser?) printers that create water-soluble decals, but have not run across any. I know there are heat-transfer PC resist materials -- are there similar things oriented to panel labeling (this would not address plastic panels, I presume)? One potential drawback of printed solutions (where the actual toner or ink from the printer becomes the label) may be making light-colored labels for dark panels. Anything else people like? I know I said I disfavor sending out for overlays, but if anybody thinks really highly of this method, and can identify a good vendor, I'm willing to listen. Thanks, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Labeling project boxes/panels
I layout the design I want (autocad) and print it reversed 1:1 on overhead projector film. Then I cut and mount it printed side down with 3M Super 77 spray adhesive. The mylar film is very tough and resistant to solvents. I use an ink jet but a laser printer should work as well. A similar procedure works for punch out masks. On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 17:33:26 -0500, Charles P. Steinmetz charles_steinm...@lavabit.com wrote: I'm tired of setting up silkscreening for one-off or small lot projects, and am looking for new ways to neatly label panels (generally painted metal, sometimes bare metal or plastic). Preferably, something that can be done on-premises without needing to send graphics out and wait for delivery. I'd like to be able to do layouts on a pc -- at a minimum with letters and lines, and hopefully the capability to paste graphics, as well. I'm willing to overcoat the labeling if necessary (preferably with a spray rather than an adhesive film). Duty will generally be indoor, but I'd like the labeling to survive locations that get direct sun through a window. I'm familiar with the Dymo and Brother industrial tape labelers, but would like something that is not so confined to available tape widths (if I'm doing an overlay -- which I'm not in love with generally -- I'd like to overlay the whole panel). I don't know if the Scotchcal family of products has anything useful for this. I have heard of materials available for (laser?) printers that create water-soluble decals, but have not run across any. I know there are heat-transfer PC resist materials -- are there similar things oriented to panel labeling (this would not address plastic panels, I presume)? One potential drawback of printed solutions (where the actual toner or ink from the printer becomes the label) may be making light-colored labels for dark panels. Anything else people like? I know I said I disfavor sending out for overlays, but if anybody thinks really highly of this method, and can identify a good vendor, I'm willing to listen. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 15 volt power supply for FE-5680A on eBay
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 6:25 PM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.comwrote: What I bought is a 15V open frame supply from allelectronics.com for $11.50. It turned out to be a very high quality power supply (Digikey has the same unit for almost $40) This PS does not drop volts even with the line input and load well out of spec (I tested 63VAC input to a 4A load briefly) ... This is the one I bought http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/PS-152/15VDC-2.7A-POWER-SUPPLY/1.html I ordered two of the above mentioned power supplies. They arrived today. I tested both of them. Neither holds 15 volts. At 2 amps they are down to 14 volts. Even at 1 amp they are down to 14.5 vdc. Paul ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 15 volt power supply for FE-5680A on eBay
On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 17:20:39 -0600, Paul F. Sehorne p...@sehorne.org wrote: On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 6:25 PM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.comwrote: What I bought is a 15V open frame supply from allelectronics.com for $11.50. It turned out to be a very high quality power supply (Digikey has the same unit for almost $40) This PS does not drop volts even with the line input and load well out of spec (I tested 63VAC input to a 4A load briefly) ... This is the one I bought http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/PS-152/15VDC-2.7A-POWER-SUPPLY/1.html I ordered two of the above mentioned power supplies. They arrived today. I tested both of them. Neither holds 15 volts. At 2 amps they are down to 14 volts. Even at 1 amp they are down to 14.5 vdc. The total regulation specification is +/- 5% so within 14.25 to 15.75 volts under all conditions. How high was your lead resistance? http://iccnexergy.com/elpac/medical-power-supplies/open-frame/mta040/ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 15 volt power supply for FE-5680A on eBay
I'll have to set up the test again and measure voltage drop across the leads and the voltage directly at the power supply supply terminals. On 1/21/2012 5:34 PM, David wrote: On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 17:20:39 -0600, Paul F. Sehorne p...@sehorne.org wrote: On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 6:25 PM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.comwrote: What I bought is a 15V open frame supply from allelectronics.com for $11.50. It turned out to be a very high quality power supply (Digikey has the same unit for almost $40) This PS does not drop volts even with the line input and load well out of spec (I tested 63VAC input to a 4A load briefly) ... This is the one I bought http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/PS-152/15VDC-2.7A-POWER-SUPPLY/1.html I ordered two of the above mentioned power supplies. They arrived today. I tested both of them. Neither holds 15 volts. At 2 amps they are down to 14 volts. Even at 1 amp they are down to 14.5 vdc. The total regulation specification is +/- 5% so within 14.25 to 15.75 volts under all conditions. How high was your lead resistance? http://iccnexergy.com/elpac/medical-power-supplies/open-frame/mta040/ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Labeling project boxes/panels
Charles, You could consider a company called Front Panel Express at http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/ They have free software just like the PCB community but aimed at making panels and doing engraving. I realize this is a bit over the top in most cases, but it may come in handy at some time. Look at their examples pages to see the kind of work. BillWB6BNQ Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: I'm tired of setting up silkscreening for one-off or small lot projects, and am looking for new ways to neatly label panels (generally painted metal, sometimes bare metal or plastic). Preferably, something that can be done on-premises without needing to send graphics out and wait for delivery. I'd like to be able to do layouts on a pc -- at a minimum with letters and lines, and hopefully the capability to paste graphics, as well. I'm willing to overcoat the labeling if necessary (preferably with a spray rather than an adhesive film). Duty will generally be indoor, but I'd like the labeling to survive locations that get direct sun through a window. I'm familiar with the Dymo and Brother industrial tape labelers, but would like something that is not so confined to available tape widths (if I'm doing an overlay -- which I'm not in love with generally -- I'd like to overlay the whole panel). I don't know if the Scotchcal family of products has anything useful for this. I have heard of materials available for (laser?) printers that create water-soluble decals, but have not run across any. I know there are heat-transfer PC resist materials -- are there similar things oriented to panel labeling (this would not address plastic panels, I presume)? One potential drawback of printed solutions (where the actual toner or ink from the printer becomes the label) may be making light-colored labels for dark panels. Anything else people like? I know I said I disfavor sending out for overlays, but if anybody thinks really highly of this method, and can identify a good vendor, I'm willing to listen. Thanks, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 15 volt power supply for FE-5680A on eBay
Good that you pointed that out to me. I ran the test again. The voltage at the power supply terminals never dropped below 15.25 vdc with up to 3 amp load applied. When will I learn... darn those clip leads got me... again. On 1/21/2012 5:34 PM, David wrote: The total regulation specification is +/- 5% so within 14.25 to 15.75 volts under all conditions. How high was your lead resistance? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Labeling project boxes/panels
Google water slide decals for everything you want to know and need... there will also be links for rub-on decals. And check out tagopappadecals.com for info and supplies for making water-slide decals (like used on model cars and airplanes). They can also make decals for you. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Labeling project boxes/panels
I use a super permanent ink sharpie and tell anyone who asks that my 4 yo granddaughter did it... :-) Charles P. Steinmetz I'm tired of setting up silkscreening for one-off or small lot projects, and am looking for new ways to neatly label panels (generally painted metal, sometimes bare metal or plastic). Preferably, something that can be done on-premises without needing to send graphics out and wait for delivery. I'd like to be able to do layouts on a pc -- at a minimum with letters and lines, and hopefully the capability to paste graphics, as well. I'm willing to overcoat the labeling if necessary (preferably with a spray rather than an adhesive film). Duty will generally be indoor, but I'd like the labeling to survive locations that get direct sun through a window. I'm familiar with the Dymo and Brother industrial tape labelers, but would like something that is not so confined to available tape widths (if I'm doing an overlay -- which I'm not in love with generally -- I'd like to overlay the whole panel). I don't know if the Scotchcal family of products has anything useful for this. I have heard of materials available for (laser?) printers that create water-soluble decals, but have not run across any. I know there are heat-transfer PC resist materials -- are there similar things oriented to panel labeling (this would not address plastic panels, I presume)? One potential drawback of printed solutions (where the actual toner or ink from the printer becomes the label) may be making light-colored labels for dark panels. Anything else people like? I know I said I disfavor sending out for overlays, but if anybody thinks really highly of this method, and can identify a good vendor, I'm willing to listen. Thanks, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Labeling project boxes/panels - Front Panel Express
I've used Front Panel Express a couple of times. The software is pretty easy to use. I've done rectangular, circular, D holes without problem. Last fall I finally put my David Partridge divider board in a surplus extruded box with end panels that weren't usable as-is. It cost just over $50 US for two different panels approx. 2x4 inches with several holes and engraved legends in black anodized aluminum. The result was very professional looking. They'll fill the engraving in various colors, but I didn't have mine filled. The price seems very reasonable to me (I live in the US) considering the difficulty of accurately drilling/cutting/filing various holes and making durable labels to get a nice result if you don't have a shop capable of doing it. Alan On 1/21/2012 4:45 PM, WB6BNQ wrote: Charles, You could consider a company called Front Panel Express at http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/ They have free software just like the PCB community but aimed at making panels and doing engraving. I realize this is a bit over the top in most cases, but it may come in handy at some time. Look at their examples pages to see the kind of work. BillWB6BNQ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 - SWCC clock
Exellent intel, thanks! The face has a penciled legend I C Depot which I suppose stands for Illinois Central, the railroad. But I would think mine works the same way as all the others. The coil holds down a follower against a cam, so the :59:59 thing makes sense. I will check this out by just doing it with a button at first. On Jan 21, 2012, at 9:25, brucekar...@aol.com wrote: Jim, If your Western Union clock is similar to the type used in broadcasting, you might want a setting pulse that starts at 59:59 and ends at 00:00 . The reason is that at 59:59 the magnet pulls the second hand to the 12 o'clock position and releases it on the hour. The one-second difference might seem trivial, but it's actually about three words for an announcer beginning a network broadcast. When Western Union got out of the clock business in the late 1970s (following a technician strike where the master clocks were ignored and service deteriorated) the company I worked for purchased the clock installation from Western Union (for $75 per clock as I remember) and we installed a digital master system. The Western Union clocks were all connected in series and driven as a constant-current teletype type loop. We had wire-wrap logic panels associated with the digital master time system. Signals for the W. U. clocks, for alerting control rooms before newscasts, starting recordings, etc., were implemented by simply adding chips, DIP relays, 14/16-pin boards with components such as timing capacitors, and wire-wraping the underside pins. I/O was implemented with those 14 and 16-pin DIP connectors on one end of ribbon cables -- the other ends being terminated on barrier strips on rack wall panels. Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Labeling project boxes/panels - Front Panel Express
There is another company that can do good quality work. BNP Laser, does laser engraging. It is not as nice as the routed paannels but they only charge 50 cents per square inch for plastic and a little more for aluminum. You get a very thin engraved sheet that can be attached using double sided tape. They will drill pilot holes. Drill these after attaching with the tape. Cost for 2x4 inch panel would be $4.The Front Pannel Express panels are much nicer but at 10X the cost Example of the kind of stuff they do: http://www.amplates.com/gallery/images/MATTE_ANODIZED.jpg One experiment I want to do soon is to print out a front panel on glossy photo paper cover the photo with some kind of glue and laminate it to 1/8th in plexiglas. This would allow a full color panel.A variation is to print on a water slide decal and then transfer the decal to the back side of plexiglas. All the artwork has to be on the same decal or you could see the edges. On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 4:48 PM, Alan Hochhalter alanh...@cableone.net wrote: I've used Front Panel Express a couple of times. The software is pretty easy to use. I've done rectangular, circular, D holes without problem. Last fall I finally put my David Partridge divider board in a surplus extruded box with end panels that weren't usable as-is. It cost just over $50 US for two different panels approx. 2x4 inches with several holes and engraved legends in black anodized aluminum. The result was very professional looking. They'll fill the engraving in various colors, but I didn't have mine filled. The price seems very reasonable to me (I live in the US) considering the difficulty of accurately drilling/cutting/filing various holes and making durable labels to get a nice result if you don't have a shop capable of doing it. Alan On 1/21/2012 4:45 PM, WB6BNQ wrote: Charles, You could consider a company called Front Panel Express at http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/ They have free software just like the PCB community but aimed at making panels and doing engraving. I realize this is a bit over the top in most cases, but it may come in handy at some time. Look at their examples pages to see the kind of work. BillWB6BNQ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 - SWCC clock
Hi Jim: There are a number of options. Ken's clock clinic sells what appears to be a No. 6 Battery that has a synchronization function for the Western Union clocks. But the problem with it and the drivers for slave clocks is that they use fairly low voltage circuitry. Stock Tickers and Teletype machines are tpically run with loop voltages in the 60 to 200 Volt range. Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html Jim Hickstein wrote: I have a Spectracom 8170 in the living room (who doesn't?), and a Western Union time-service clock, a.k.a SWCC clock -- a nice one, in a 3-foot-high wood case. I've been watching TV with this combination for years and years but never got around to feeding a pulse from the 8170 to discipline the other one. Now that Western Union no longer provides the service. :-) But it just begs to be done. I did draw up a TTL circuit, once (on a napkin, naturally, which I have now misplaced), that could live inside the 8170. I figured out the minimum number of inputs needed to detect when the MM:SS LED displays said 00:00 (for one second). It would close a relay, which could feed the winding-battery power to the hour-set solenoid down a pair of wires from 10 feet away. But I never built it. A little over a year ago the TS clock was getting gummy and free-running slower and slower, so I sent it to the clock hospital. It's back and free-running nicely, so maybe it's finally time I did this. Anyone got a better idea than my little TTL circuit, on a breadboard inside the 8170? I'd like to get it across the rear panel without cutting a new hole, if I can avoid it. But maybe the right connector would do. Another time-code receiver in the TS clock, e.g. a GPS module that provides a relay closure for 1 second on the hour (if such exists) might be neater. But the living room faces north. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 15 volt power supply for FE-5680A on eBay
On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Paul F. Sehorne p...@sehorne.org wrote: Good that you pointed that out to me. I ran the test again. The voltage at the power supply terminals never dropped below 15.25 vdc with up to 3 amp load applied. When will I learn... darn those clip leads got me... again. Chuck those leads in the thrash right away while you are thinking of it. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 - SWCC clock #2
Hi again: Sorry sent too soon. The time constant of the loop is L/R. By increasing R the loop runs faster. Western Union ran the clocks from 200 Volts with a dropping resistor to get the desired current. When driven form say 12 Volts the clock response is sluggish, but when driven from higher voltages the response is very snappy. I think a simple blocking oscillator could be used to charge up a photo cap and dump it into one or more series connected clocks. http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC.shtml http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC2.shtml http://www.prc68.com/I/SETSC.shtml#IMP2 http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC.shtml#L Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html Brooke Clarke wrote: Hi Jim: There are a number of options. Ken's clock clinic sells what appears to be a No. 6 Battery that has a synchronization function for the Western Union clocks. But the problem with it and the drivers for slave clocks is that they use fairly low voltage circuitry. Stock Tickers and Teletype machines are tpically run with loop voltages in the 60 to 200 Volt range. Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html Jim Hickstein wrote: I have a Spectracom 8170 in the living room (who doesn't?), and a Western Union time-service clock, a.k.a SWCC clock -- a nice one, in a 3-foot-high wood case. I've been watching TV with this combination for years and years but never got around to feeding a pulse from the 8170 to discipline the other one. Now that Western Union no longer provides the service. :-) But it just begs to be done. I did draw up a TTL circuit, once (on a napkin, naturally, which I have now misplaced), that could live inside the 8170. I figured out the minimum number of inputs needed to detect when the MM:SS LED displays said 00:00 (for one second). It would close a relay, which could feed the winding-battery power to the hour-set solenoid down a pair of wires from 10 feet away. But I never built it. A little over a year ago the TS clock was getting gummy and free-running slower and slower, so I sent it to the clock hospital. It's back and free-running nicely, so maybe it's finally time I did this. Anyone got a better idea than my little TTL circuit, on a breadboard inside the 8170? I'd like to get it across the rear panel without cutting a new hole, if I can avoid it. But maybe the right connector would do. Another time-code receiver in the TS clock, e.g. a GPS module that provides a relay closure for 1 second on the hour (if such exists) might be neater. But the living room faces north. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] FE-5680 logging app
John Beale was nice enough to convince me to clean up and release the source code I've been using to plot data from undocumented FE-5680 serial commands. It builds cleanly on linux and cygwin at least. Don't forget to link with the rt libs (gcc fe5680_logger.cpp -lrt). Let me know if you have trouble, suggestions, or want additional features. Source code: http://n5tnl.com/time/fe-5680a/control/fe5680_logger.c Cygwin executable (probably needs the cygwin dlls): http://n5tnl.com/time/fe-5680a/control/fe5680_logger.exe Example gnuplot command file: http://n5tnl.com/time/fe-5680a/control/fe5680.gnuplot It's a simple command line app with one arg, the serial port. Under cygwin, you'd start it up as fe5680_logger.exe /dev/ttyS0 to read com 1. Output data is to standard output, so use tee or redirect to a file if you want to log. Example output: # Logging started at Sat Jan 21 19:59:20 2012 # Elapsed (s), CH1, CH2, CH3, CH4, 53?, 22A, 22B, 22C, 22D 26.4100 21122 10850 23328 41 4592 57600 26.5130 21122 10830 23328 41 4592 57600 Columns break down as: 1--elapsed time, in seconds, since logging began 2--12 bit ADC channel 1, maybe a trimpot? 3--12 bit ADC channel 2, fairly constant, might be a rail 4--12 bit ADC channel 3, looks like a temp sensor 5--12 bit ADC channel 4, something to do with VCXO? 6--reply from command 0x53, which looks like temp 7-10: 4 16 bit replies from command 0x22 (unknown) John saw variable data from cmd 0x22, but I have not (at least on the unlocker). If the header or data checksums are wrong, it will flush the serial port, delay, and try again. A note will be entered in the logfile when this happens. Same thing if the FE5680 doesn't reply to the command. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Labeling project boxes/panels - Front Panel Express
On 1/21/12 6:21 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: There is another company that can do good quality work. BNP Laser, does laser engraging. It is not as nice as the routed paannels but they only charge 50 cents per square inch for plastic and a little more for aluminum. You get a very thin engraved sheet that can be attached using double sided tape. They will drill pilot holes. Drill these after attaching with the tape. Cost for 2x4 inch panel would be $4.The Front Pannel Express panels are much nicer but at 10X the cost Example of the kind of stuff they do: http://www.amplates.com/gallery/images/MATTE_ANODIZED.jpg One experiment I want to do soon is to print out a front panel on glossy photo paper cover the photo with some kind of glue and laminate it to 1/8th in plexiglas. This would allow a full color panel.A variation is to print on a water slide decal and then transfer the decal to the back side of plexiglas. All the artwork has to be on the same decal or you could see the edges. you can also get a self adhesive polycarbonate film that you stick to the printed page, then there's another thin double stick film you put on the back of the paper, and then stick it to the chassis. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Things to look for when buying a few FE-5680A's?
All, I've been on the sidelines of being a time nut for a while now and I'm working on getting back into things. Before I drifted away from my hobbies, I remember the FE-5680's being around, but I didn't know much about them and was more interested in GPSDO's. I think I'd like to help kickstart my interest in the area again by picking up a few FE-5680A's from eBay. So, I was wondering if there's any certain things I should look for when buying some... It looks like there's a pretty consistent supply right now on eBay... Are there certain sellers that people would recommend? I noticed that Option 2 is the RS-232C stuff. Do most on eBay have this option? Anything in particular I should watch out for? Thanks, Brad ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
