Re: [time-nuts] de Witte's Experiment
It should not be difficult to measure the temperature of the co-ax, if it uses copper, copper has a very high tempco, about the same as platinum. So you could set up an experiment where you compare phase in the two legs then compare resistance of the two legs. Strain in the legs might be an effect. Cheers, Neville Michie ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale
On 29 August 2013 01:00, Mann Weltzeit mweltz...@ymail.com wrote: I have recovered BVA Oscillators from Telecommunications decommissioned equipment and these tested Oscillator Modules are offered for sale to the Time-Nuts group. I have two 8600-06 units with 5 MHz sinus wave output on two SMA powered with 24 Volt DC (+/- 10%) operation at aproximate 200 mA quiescent. I offer satisfaction protection in private sale at $3000.00 USD for each unit paid by Paypal only, including North American shipping, excluding insurance. Am I missing something, or is $3000 more than a little excessive for what a quick Google would suggest is an OCXO? http://www.tamadevice.co.jp/pdf/oscilloqartz/8600.pdf OK, they are good OCXOs, but still an OCXO. Maybe I am missing something. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale
yes you are missing something - its the BVA holder that creates the Allen Deviation magic but I admit, it starts with a Quartz, yes (most of the CBTube based masers still steer a 8663...Quartz) these 8600-06 from 2003, just about the same time as the datasheet you referenced were about 14K CHf I recover ~ 4 per year from 5548B and from F3 and so on and of these , some are trash and saved for parts I have the experience to know which are 100% and I offer satisfaction with my price; the object must meet the standard ADEV limit in OSA specification or it should not be out there (and I need them for parts) in confidence Manny From: Dr. David Kirkby drkir...@gmail.com To: Mann Weltzeit mweltz...@ymail.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale On 29 August 2013 01:00, Mann Weltzeit mweltz...@ymail.com wrote: I have recovered BVA Oscillators from Telecommunications decommissioned equipment and these tested Oscillator Modules are offered for sale to the Time-Nuts group. I have two 8600-06 units with 5 MHz sinus wave output on two SMA powered with 24 Volt DC (+/- 10%) operation at aproximate 200 mA quiescent. I offer satisfaction protection in private sale at $3000.00 USD for each unit paid by Paypal only, including North American shipping, excluding insurance. Am I missing something, or is $3000 more than a little excessive for what a quick Google would suggest is an OCXO? http://www.tamadevice.co.jp/pdf/oscilloqartz/8600.pdf OK, they are good OCXOs, but still an OCXO. Maybe I am missing something. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale
On 8/29/2013 9:01 AM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote: On 29 August 2013 01:00, Mann Weltzeit mweltz...@ymail.com wrote: I offer satisfaction protection in private sale at $3000.00 USD for each unit Am I missing something, or is $3000 more than a little excessive for what a quick Google would suggest is an OCXO? Well, considering it was a first post by Mr. Man Worldtime, I'd say it's an opportunist looking for a sucker. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Getting a 5370A tomorrow - How do i test it works
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 00:02:30 +0200, Frank Stellmach wrote: Bingo, welcome on time-nuts, also! Follow the manual, the first basic test is simply connecting the reference output on the rear to the input and measuring frequency and T.I. This lets you test function and base noise level (35ps)hat. If this test passess, the machine is running well in first instance. Max. input level is specified in the manual, 10:1 divder provided, so nothing critical.. RTFM , sorry! Then I'd inspect the interior, which oscillator is mounted. Think of buying an OCXO, 10811, if you find the simple XO - it's already more fun. Frank Hello Frank et. all I just got the unit Serial: 2024Ax , so i suppose it's a 1980/W24 made in America. A nice surprise is the installed 10544A OCXO :-) The 10544A says Use insulated tunings tool only , i don't have a plastic or ceramic screwdriver ... Is the message because the house and the inside has different levels , or is only because the OCXO will jump when i retract the screwdriver ?. I might have a screwdriver with plastic on the shaft. For a 1980 unit it's surprisingly clean inside , it must have been in a lab or so. Now i'll check the voltage selector , put the lid back on , and do the tests from the manual. More to follow. CFO ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale
I am not an opportunist From: Mike S mi...@flatsurface.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 9:26 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale On 8/29/2013 9:01 AM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote: On 29 August 2013 01:00, Mann Weltzeit mweltz...@ymail.com wrote: I offer satisfaction protection in private sale at $3000.00 USD for each unit Am I missing something, or is $3000 more than a little excessive for what a quick Google would suggest is an OCXO? Well, considering it was a first post by Mr. Man Worldtime, I'd say it's an opportunist looking for a sucker. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] LPRO questions...
Hi, I've got an LPRO and my Rb lamp voltage is 3.5608V. I've read about bulb rejuvenation. I've looked through some of the repair manuals, but still have a few questions. #1 - how do you remove the cover? Is it just press fit into place? I see dimples on it and I wonder can I just pry the case of slowly without bending it to open it? #2 - I may have to open it anyway for a different reason - should I try to rejuvenate my lamp while it is open given the lamp voltage I have. #3 - If I should try it, how do you get the lamp out? I see what looks like a hex nut in photos - do you untwist this nut and the bulb comes out with it? #4 - The heat gun technique -if I make an adapter to hold the bulb in a drill or something that can spin it while applying the heat, is this a good plan? #5 - I see the xtal voltage mentioned (mine says 4.4672V) - what exactly is this? Thanks for your help and advice! Have a great day, Alan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale
These are about $11,000 or so new if I am not mistaken. Its a really good ocxo... Sent From iPhone On Aug 29, 2013, at 6:01, Dr. David Kirkby drkir...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 August 2013 01:00, Mann Weltzeit mweltz...@ymail.com wrote: I have recovered BVA Oscillators from Telecommunications decommissioned equipment and these tested Oscillator Modules are offered for sale to the Time-Nuts group. I have two 8600-06 units with 5 MHz sinus wave output on two SMA powered with 24 Volt DC (+/- 10%) operation at aproximate 200 mA quiescent. I offer satisfaction protection in private sale at $3000.00 USD for each unit paid by Paypal only, including North American shipping, excluding insurance. Am I missing something, or is $3000 more than a little excessive for what a quick Google would suggest is an OCXO? http://www.tamadevice.co.jp/pdf/oscilloqartz/8600.pdf OK, they are good OCXOs, but still an OCXO. Maybe I am missing something. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale
In message 572a741b-0213-4f1c-ba59-c2d396a03...@aol.com, Said Jackson writes: These are about $11,000 or so new if I am not mistaken. Depends what options it has... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale
Yup, I heard price goes up from there... Sent From iPhone On Aug 29, 2013, at 8:37, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message 572a741b-0213-4f1c-ba59-c2d396a03...@aol.com, Said Jackson writes: These are about $11,000 or so new if I am not mistaken. Depends what options it has... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale
The pursuit of precision tends to be exponential rather than linear. When you push the envelope of frequency and time accuracy or stability or measurement (e.g., phase noise and short-term ADEV) prices go up accordingly, as if each decimal point of time/frequency precision magically adds a zero to the purchase/operational cost. It's probably the same in many fields: from voltage standards to F1 racing. As a rough example in the ADEV world: - for 1e-11, you can buy almost any XO, TCXO, or risky OCXO for $10. - for 1e-12, you can find a reputable OCXO on eBay for under $100. - for 1e-13, you can find an old but maybe working cesium clock for 1 k$. - for 1e-14, spend 10 k$ and get a certified working hp 5071A. - for 1e-15, spend 100 k$ and find a used active H-maser. - for 1e-16, spend 1 M$ to hire physicists and build a Cs fountain. - for 1e-17, spend 10 M$ to fund a national research institute to build ion or optical clocks. All this to say that a BVA oscillator at $3K is not unreasonable. Unless of course, when you test it, you find it's no better than a lucky 10811A you once found inside a HP 5328A counter for $100. But the seller is offering a 14-day trial so that's very considerate. Thanks, /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale
OK but like a new car the value drops 50% off the lot. Anyway you slice it as nice as this might be I will stick with the $100 and less 10544/1081s 105s and sulzers. I may be a time-nut. But I am not time-Nutz. Perhaps for the lab that need it that is a darned good price. Regards Paul WB8TSL/1 On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Said Jackson saidj...@aol.com wrote: Yup, I heard price goes up from there... Sent From iPhone On Aug 29, 2013, at 8:37, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message 572a741b-0213-4f1c-ba59-c2d396a03...@aol.com, Said Jackson writes: These are about $11,000 or so new if I am not mistaken. Depends what options it has... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale
Tom Completely agree. You pay for what you need like all things. I did turn down a very nice 5071 for $1600 from another Time-nut. Looked like it was in quite good condition. I just could not actually justify that cost for the hobby. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com wrote: The pursuit of precision tends to be exponential rather than linear. When you push the envelope of frequency and time accuracy or stability or measurement (e.g., phase noise and short-term ADEV) prices go up accordingly, as if each decimal point of time/frequency precision magically adds a zero to the purchase/operational cost. It's probably the same in many fields: from voltage standards to F1 racing. As a rough example in the ADEV world: - for 1e-11, you can buy almost any XO, TCXO, or risky OCXO for $10. - for 1e-12, you can find a reputable OCXO on eBay for under $100. - for 1e-13, you can find an old but maybe working cesium clock for 1 k$. - for 1e-14, spend 10 k$ and get a certified working hp 5071A. - for 1e-15, spend 100 k$ and find a used active H-maser. - for 1e-16, spend 1 M$ to hire physicists and build a Cs fountain. - for 1e-17, spend 10 M$ to fund a national research institute to build ion or optical clocks. All this to say that a BVA oscillator at $3K is not unreasonable. Unless of course, when you test it, you find it's no better than a lucky 10811A you once found inside a HP 5328A counter for $100. But the seller is offering a 14-day trial so that's very considerate. Thanks, /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Getting a 5370A tomorrow - How do i test it works
Hmmm ... Bad news I started the tests in section 4 , and all went well for approx 35 min. Test pg 4-28 - Table 4-3 - See Errata starting on page 4 PON test pg. 4-2 Step 1-13 : Disp 99.69 to 99.73 (flipping fast) Step 14 : 100 - Disp 99.69x to 99.70x - 100 - Disp 99.68x to 99.69x - 1000 - Disp 99.689x to 99.697x - 10K - Disp 99.7061 to 99.7084 - 100K - Disp 99.7053 to 99.7096 Step 15 : Disp 13.x to 17.x (flipping) - Min 99.73/75 - Max 99.80 (Err 02) Now the 5370A won't ARM (ARM light steady lit, with the int 10Mhz connected to Start) I goofed in one of the steps - Step 6 , where i should have selected DC on both AC/DC switches , they were unfortunately on AC. When i power the unit off/on it starts up fine (the start/stop) leds are blinking , but the display shows 0.00 , and once in a while if i'm lucky it arms and show 99.7 or so If i leave it It ends in Err02 after a while. Any hints ? CFO ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale
I could be wrong but I thought when I priced these for work the BVA 8600 AT cut was substantially cheaper then that. I think the $11,000 is more in line with a BVA 8607 SC cut with an option. But from my point of view the close in Phase Noise on this particular oscillator is what dictates it's value. These BVA 8600's typically range from 110 to better then 120 dB @ 1Hz which is a big difference. If this BVA is at the low phase noise end of the range it could be a real bargain at $3000. Another option in the $3000 range is the Wenzel Blue Top ULPN oscillators. It may not match a good BVA inside 1Hz but will have at least a 20dB better noise floor from about 10KHz out. The other plus with a BVA is the the Quartz is capacitive coupled where most other oscillators have metal deposited directly on the Quartz which will interact over time and potentially diminish performance. As Tom and other explained prices go up exponentially for ULPN oscillators. Thomas Knox Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 12:53:47 -0400 From: paulsw...@gmail.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale OK but like a new car the value drops 50% off the lot. Anyway you slice it as nice as this might be I will stick with the $100 and less 10544/1081s 105s and sulzers. I may be a time-nut. But I am not time-Nutz. Perhaps for the lab that need it that is a darned good price. Regards Paul WB8TSL/1 On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Said Jackson saidj...@aol.com wrote: Yup, I heard price goes up from there... Sent From iPhone On Aug 29, 2013, at 8:37, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message 572a741b-0213-4f1c-ba59-c2d396a03...@aol.com, Said Jackson writes: These are about $11,000 or so new if I am not mistaken. Depends what options it has... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] LPRO questions...
Hi Alan, On 08/29/2013 04:24 PM, Alan Kamrowski II wrote: Hi, I've got an LPRO and my Rb lamp voltage is 3.5608V. I've read about bulb rejuvenation. I've looked through some of the repair manuals, but still have a few questions. #1 - how do you remove the cover? Is it just press fit into place? I see dimples on it and I wonder can I just pry the case of slowly without bending it to open it? It's a press-fit. Once you removed the screws at the contact, gently push it open. Since it is mu-metal shield, you dont want to upset it too much, or it will loose it's shielding properties for DC magnetics. #2 - I may have to open it anyway for a different reason - should I try to rejuvenate my lamp while it is open given the lamp voltage I have. #3 - If I should try it, how do you get the lamp out? I see what looks like a hex nut in photos - do you untwist this nut and the bulb comes out with it? You should be able to do it that way yes. I haven't had a reason to try it. #4 - The heat gun technique -if I make an adapter to hold the bulb in a drill or something that can spin it while applying the heat, is this a good plan? Just fixture it and make the wet drop end sit at the high point. That way whatever metal you heat up will cool of in the top of the glass lamp, which is where you want it. #5 - I see the xtal voltage mentioned (mine says 4.4672V) - what exactly is this? There is a VCXO in there, so this is the EFC voltage to it. Thanks for your help and advice! Enjoy your LPRO! Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] LPRO questions...
The xtal voltage is just the xtal tuning voltage. The lamp voltage is on the low side but if it locks and stays locked leave it alone. Rejuvenation is really a last step nothing to loose deal and it does work quite well. Sooo check if it does not lock or blinks out by monitoring the lock indicator. I hook mine to a pedometer and let it catch the blinks that occur. It should be 0. But every lock increase the count. That lets you judge how bad things are. OK so it won't even light. Check that the RF exciter is working and the ovens warm and the great thing is they actually glow if lit. All bad? Time to get out the serious tools. On the FRS they have a glass slip on the front of the bulb. No way to get it off accept to break it. (Now that I have said that there will be dozens of correct ways in response) What you see on the bulb is a little bit of silver like gue. Also a blackening on the end. All of this seems to be the RB and when heated the blobs will actually move around and slowly evaporate. Don't go crazy with the heat and you have to feel the process out. But thats actually it. Regards Paul WB8TSL/1 On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 10:24 AM, Alan Kamrowski II ala...@earthlink.netwrote: Hi, I've got an LPRO and my Rb lamp voltage is 3.5608V. I've read about bulb rejuvenation. I've looked through some of the repair manuals, but still have a few questions. #1 - how do you remove the cover? Is it just press fit into place? I see dimples on it and I wonder can I just pry the case of slowly without bending it to open it? #2 - I may have to open it anyway for a different reason - should I try to rejuvenate my lamp while it is open given the lamp voltage I have. #3 - If I should try it, how do you get the lamp out? I see what looks like a hex nut in photos - do you untwist this nut and the bulb comes out with it? #4 - The heat gun technique -if I make an adapter to hold the bulb in a drill or something that can spin it while applying the heat, is this a good plan? #5 - I see the xtal voltage mentioned (mine says 4.4672V) - what exactly is this? Thanks for your help and advice! Have a great day, Alan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] LPRO questions...
Hi, Thanks guys - it locks and stays locked so I'm not going to mess with it for now. Alan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Advantages of differential oscillator structures?
BTW, the venerable Motorola MC12061 oscillator is a bipolar version of this circuit. It was good for audio clocks in the 12 MHz range, including VCXOs using a series varactor. David On 8/10/13 2:34 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Any bets on weather or not they have actually designed a 12.8 MHz multivibrator that injection locks to the crystal? Pretty hard with discrete parts, but not out of the question with silicon. You'd have to get their spice (or what ever) files to figure it out ... Bob On Aug 10, 2013, at 12:03 PM, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: On 08/10/2013 05:55 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Looking at the picture of the die, I suspect their radio has a VCO on it that they lock up through a (noisy) low frequency PLL. That would mean they really don't care a lot about phase noise of the reference. Agree. But I was arguing about looking at it outside of their system limits and see if it could be practical approach otherwise. Then their choice of transistor geometrics etc. is irrelevant. So, given that, could it be potentially interesting? Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] 5071A for $1600?
Hi Paul, Did you actually turn down a 5071A for $1600, or did you mean to say $16000 (or perhaps it was a 5061A)? I'd buy a nice 5071A right now for $1600! Regards, Stan *** Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 12:56:39 -0400 From: paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com To: Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com, Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale Message-ID: CAD2JfAg=ujbrq83+b1f4dm9g47edzld95_+f0d1nwa6ky9t...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Tom Completely agree. You pay for what you need like all things. I did turn down a very nice 5071 for $1600 from another Time-nut. Looked like it was in quite good condition. I just could not actually justify that cost for the hobby. Regards Paul WB8TSL *** ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 5071A for $1600?
Stan I did. It was Charles on time-nuts here about 6 months ago. He offered it to us all and it appeared in very good shape. I have a 5061 the Frankenstein and it works. I simply did not have a need for a CS at that cost. I will say pre 5061 repair and integration I would have indeed purchased it. But the 5061 has cooled my CS desires. :-) OK have seen zeeman frequency etc. These things suck power and take real care and feeding. GPS is making me lazzzy. So there you go. Regards Paul On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Stan swp...@earthlink.net wrote: Hi Paul, Did you actually turn down a 5071A for $1600, or did you mean to say $16000 (or perhaps it was a 5061A)? I'd buy a nice 5071A right now for $1600! Regards, Stan *** Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 12:56:39 -0400 From: paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com To: Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com, Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale Message-ID: CAD2JfAg= ujbrq83+b1f4dm9g47edzld95_+f0d1nwa6ky9t...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Tom Completely agree. You pay for what you need like all things. I did turn down a very nice 5071 for $1600 from another Time-nut. Looked like it was in quite good condition. I just could not actually justify that cost for the hobby. Regards Paul WB8TSL *** ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale
In May 2013, on this list we have read: What such an oscillator would be worth :-) You might be aware that there is one 8602 on sale on ebay for 4500USD. I asked Oscilloquartz about that and from what i gathered, it's definitly not worth that money. For slightly more you can get a new 8607 already. The 8602 worth is probably around 150 to 200USD. On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 7:20 PM, Tom Knox act...@hotmail.com wrote: I could be wrong but I thought when I priced these for work the BVA 8600 AT cut was substantially cheaper then that. I think the $11,000 is more in line with a BVA 8607 SC cut with an option. But from my point of view the close in Phase Noise on this particular oscillator is what dictates it's value. These BVA 8600's typically range from 110 to better then 120 dB @ 1Hz which is a big difference. If this BVA is at the low phase noise end of the range it could be a real bargain at $3000. Another option in the $3000 range is the Wenzel Blue Top ULPN oscillators. It may not match a good BVA inside 1Hz but will have at least a 20dB better noise floor from about 10KHz out. The other plus with a BVA is the the Quartz is capacitive coupled where most other oscillators have metal deposited directly on the Quartz which will interact over time and potentially diminish performance. As Tom and other explained prices go up exponentially for ULPN oscillators. Thomas Knox Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 12:53:47 -0400 From: paulsw...@gmail.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale OK but like a new car the value drops 50% off the lot. Anyway you slice it as nice as this might be I will stick with the $100 and less 10544/1081s 105s and sulzers. I may be a time-nut. But I am not time-Nutz. Perhaps for the lab that need it that is a darned good price. Regards Paul WB8TSL/1 On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Said Jackson saidj...@aol.com wrote: Yup, I heard price goes up from there... Sent From iPhone On Aug 29, 2013, at 8:37, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message 572a741b-0213-4f1c-ba59-c2d396a03...@aol.com, Said Jackson writes: These are about $11,000 or so new if I am not mistaken. Depends what options it has... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale
Here is my experience with trying to get one of these for very low noise ADEV measurements: * waited for some years for one to pop up on Ebay/Time-Nuts/Craigslist etc. I even sent a couple of BVA WANTED emails to time-nuts in the past, no response from anyone. * called the factory, they quoted $10K prices if I remember correctly, out of my budget. * emailed some known BVA owners and asked if they wanted to part with one. No. * asked the factory for demo units, used units, etc. None available. * based on an old email, found one used for similar price, bought it, and happy now I agree, it's much cheaper to get a ULN oscillator from Wenzel for phase noise measurements. Those tend to have not quite as good ADEV though (we have a number of these) and because they drive the crystal with massive power they age like crazy, but they do have very good phase noise. For ADEV measurements, these BVA are great, much better than any Wenzel we have. Potentially better to way better than the 10811. Not many 10811 will perform in the xE-13 level close-in. 10811 also sometimes suffer from crystal jumps, BVA's don't as far as I know due to the nature of the crystal design. If you need great phase noise, simply buy a used Wenzel ULN for a couple of 100 $$ and phase-lock it to the BVA. That way you can get excellent phase noise, and ADEV at the same time. Likely one would do two measurements anyway, one for phase noise and one for ADEV, that way there is no need to phase lock a Wenzel to a BVA. That's the way we do it here - just use different references for different measurements. Those folks that need these and have large budgets (NIST, etc) probably don't care if it costs $300, $3000, or $25K and the factory needs to pay its employees and rent so their asking price is justified versus the small volume they sell. For us other folks having a seller offer these at $3000 is a nice opportunity - if you happen to want exactly this unit. I just wish the seller would rent a Rhode and Schwarz, Symmetricom or other ADEV/PN meter for a week and specify the performance of these units. Bye, Said In a message dated 8/29/2013 10:21:52 Pacific Daylight Time, act...@hotmail.com writes: I could be wrong but I thought when I priced these for work the BVA 8600 AT cut was substantially cheaper then that. I think the $11,000 is more in line with a BVA 8607 SC cut with an option. But from my point of view the close in Phase Noise on this particular oscillator is what dictates it's value. These BVA 8600's typically range from 110 to better then 120 dB @ 1Hz which is a big difference. If this BVA is at the low phase noise end of the range it could be a real bargain at $3000. Another option in the $3000 range is the Wenzel Blue Top ULPN oscillators. It may not match a good BVA inside 1Hz but will have at least a 20dB better noise floor from about 10KHz out. The other plus with a BVA is the the Quartz is capacitive coupled where most other oscillators have metal deposited directly on the Quartz which will interact over time and potentially diminish performance. As Tom and other explained prices go up exponentially for ULPN oscillators. Thomas Knox Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 12:53:47 -0400 From: paulsw...@gmail.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale OK but like a new car the value drops 50% off the lot. Anyway you slice it as nice as this might be I will stick with the $100 and less 10544/1081s 105s and sulzers. I may be a time-nut. But I am not time-Nutz. Perhaps for the lab that need it that is a darned good price. Regards Paul WB8TSL/1 On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Said Jackson saidj...@aol.com wrote: Yup, I heard price goes up from there... Sent From iPhone On Aug 29, 2013, at 8:37, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message 572a741b-0213-4f1c-ba59-c2d396a03...@aol.com, Said Jackson writes: These are about $11,000 or so new if I am not mistaken. Depends what options it has... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and
Re: [time-nuts] [time nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale
During my efforts to find a standard that could serve as reference to help characterize my FTS1050, I went thru a succession of 10811's, several stand alone datum 1000's from the usual auction site, an HP105B, a wenzel from the usual auction site etc and none of them came even close to the adev performance at tau's of 40 to over 10,000 seconds of the BVA 8600 I purchased. (I can't measure phase noise or adev tau's less than approx 40 seconds.) The only other reference I've been able to acquire that is close to being in the same league as the BVA8600 and the FTS 1050 is a single Z3805 at certain tau's (out of approx half a dozen assorted GPSDO's.) My BVA wasn't inexpensive either but it performed as I expected. I also suspect it out performs the FTS1050 at shorter taus's. I also considered buying an HP5065 as an alternative but figured there was less to go wrong with a stand alone OCXO. I figure I got lucky when I acquired my FTS1050 and one of my Z3805's. I don't believe luck played much of a role in my BVA purchase. Your experience may vary. Regards Mark S Sent from my iPad ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] [time nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale
Sorry just to clarify re the particular Z3805 it is the only Gpsdo i have that can begin to match the adev of the BVA at shorter tau's (well under 1,000 seconds.) At longer tau's ie. over several thousand seconds the other Gpsdo's become more competitive. Sent from my iPad On 2013-08-29, at 1:08 PM, Mark Spencer mspencer12...@yahoo.ca wrote: During my efforts to find a standard that could serve as reference to help characterize my FTS1050, I went thru a succession of 10811's, several stand alone datum 1000's from the usual auction site, an HP105B, a wenzel from the usual auction site etc and none of them came even close to the adev performance at tau's of 40 to over 10,000 seconds of the BVA 8600 I purchased. (I can't measure phase noise or adev tau's less than approx 40 seconds.) The only other reference I've been able to acquire that is close to being in the same league as the BVA8600 and the FTS 1050 is a single Z3805 at certain tau's (out of approx half a dozen assorted GPSDO's.) My BVA wasn't inexpensive either but it performed as I expected. I also suspect it out performs the FTS1050 at shorter taus's. I also considered buying an HP5065 as an alternative but figured there was less to go wrong with a stand alone OCXO. I figure I got lucky when I acquired my FTS1050 and one of my Z3805's. I don't believe luck played much of a role in my BVA purchase. Your experience may vary. Regards Mark S Sent from my iPad ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] [time nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale
...yet it has to be understood why (as stated here 3 months ago) a BVA from silosurplus on the auction site was worth at most 150 or 200 USD (from 4500) and now a BVA is worth almost every cent of its 3000 USD... On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 10:08 PM, Mark Spencer mspencer12...@yahoo.ca wrote: During my efforts to find a standard that could serve as reference to help characterize my FTS1050, I went thru a succession of 10811's, several stand alone datum 1000's from the usual auction site, an HP105B, a wenzel from the usual auction site etc and none of them came even close to the adev performance at tau's of 40 to over 10,000 seconds of the BVA 8600 I purchased. (I can't measure phase noise or adev tau's less than approx 40 seconds.) The only other reference I've been able to acquire that is close to being in the same league as the BVA8600 and the FTS 1050 is a single Z3805 at certain tau's (out of approx half a dozen assorted GPSDO's.) My BVA wasn't inexpensive either but it performed as I expected. I also suspect it out performs the FTS1050 at shorter taus's. I also considered buying an HP5065 as an alternative but figured there was less to go wrong with a stand alone OCXO. I figure I got lucky when I acquired my FTS1050 and one of my Z3805's. I don't believe luck played much of a role in my BVA purchase. Your experience may vary. Regards Mark S Sent from my iPad ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale
In the first post, you state *While I can offer some proof of operation for qualified TimeNutters, Allen Variance Noise and sigma-tau phase noise are difficult parameters to test without an acceptable reference, so I offer a 14 day acceptance trial to vetted buyers*. Which could be interpreted to imply that you have not actually tested these samples for ADEV and phase noise to the levels in the device specification. Yet, in a later email you state: * the object must meet the standard ADEV limit in OSA specification or it should not be out there* which seems to imply that you know the devices you sell meet their original specification. Please be clear: Do you have the capability to test these units to verify their stated specification and if so, have you done so and what equipment do you use? (we need to vet you as a vendor) If you do not have such capability, under what basis are you asserting they meet their specification? It may be that while you have the equipment to test these devices and you have verified they meet their spec, you understand a prospective buyer may not have that capability and therefore you allow him two weeks to satisfy himself that the devices are as advertised. I am not in the market for one of these although I admire the technology that goes into making one of those, but I am just curious to know exactly what you are offering for sale and how you have checked these devices. Didier KO4BB On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 8:30 AM, Mann Weltzeit mweltz...@ymail.com wrote: yes you are missing something - its the BVA holder that creates the Allen Deviation magic but I admit, it starts with a Quartz, yes (most of the CBTube based masers still steer a 8663...Quartz) these 8600-06 from 2003, just about the same time as the datasheet you referenced were about 14K CHf I recover ~ 4 per year from 5548B and from F3 and so on and of these , some are trash and saved for parts I have the experience to know which are 100% and I offer satisfaction with my price; the object must meet the standard ADEV limit in OSA specification or it should not be out there (and I need them for parts) in confidence Manny From: Dr. David Kirkby drkir...@gmail.com To: Mann Weltzeit mweltz...@ymail.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale On 29 August 2013 01:00, Mann Weltzeit mweltz...@ymail.com wrote: I have recovered BVA Oscillators from Telecommunications decommissioned equipment and these tested Oscillator Modules are offered for sale to the Time-Nuts group. I have two 8600-06 units with 5 MHz sinus wave output on two SMA powered with 24 Volt DC (+/- 10%) operation at aproximate 200 mA quiescent. I offer satisfaction protection in private sale at $3000.00 USD for each unit paid by Paypal only, including North American shipping, excluding insurance. Am I missing something, or is $3000 more than a little excessive for what a quick Google would suggest is an OCXO? http://www.tamadevice.co.jp/pdf/oscilloqartz/8600.pdf OK, they are good OCXOs, but still an OCXO. Maybe I am missing something. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] [time nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale
The SiloTest unit was a very very early BVA. But that said the actual adev and pn performance of that BVA should be the deciding factor as to ultimate value. Thomas Knox Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 22:29:40 +0200 From: azelio.bori...@screen.it To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] [time nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale ...yet it has to be understood why (as stated here 3 months ago) a BVA from silosurplus on the auction site was worth at most 150 or 200 USD (from 4500) and now a BVA is worth almost every cent of its 3000 USD... On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 10:08 PM, Mark Spencer mspencer12...@yahoo.ca wrote: During my efforts to find a standard that could serve as reference to help characterize my FTS1050, I went thru a succession of 10811's, several stand alone datum 1000's from the usual auction site, an HP105B, a wenzel from the usual auction site etc and none of them came even close to the adev performance at tau's of 40 to over 10,000 seconds of the BVA 8600 I purchased. (I can't measure phase noise or adev tau's less than approx 40 seconds.) The only other reference I've been able to acquire that is close to being in the same league as the BVA8600 and the FTS 1050 is a single Z3805 at certain tau's (out of approx half a dozen assorted GPSDO's.) My BVA wasn't inexpensive either but it performed as I expected. I also suspect it out performs the FTS1050 at shorter taus's. I also considered buying an HP5065 as an alternative but figured there was less to go wrong with a stand alone OCXO. I figure I got lucky when I acquired my FTS1050 and one of my Z3805's. I don't believe luck played much of a role in my BVA purchase. Your experience may vary. Regards Mark S Sent from my iPad ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Getting a 5370A tomorrow - How do i test it works
I goofed in one of the steps - Step 6 , where i should have selected DC on both AC/DC switches , they were unfortunately on AC. When i power the unit off/on it starts up fine (the start/stop) leds are blinking , but the display shows 0.00 , and once in a while if i'm lucky it arms and show 99.7 or so If i leave it It ends in Err02 after a while. Any hints ? There is probably nothing too seriously awry. Physical intermittents can be a hassle with 5370As. Reseat all of the ROM chips along with everything else that's in a DIP socket, and see if that helps. You also may have an intermittent contact in one of the front-panel switches. They are not very well designed and can easily bind up. HP should have used high performance RF relays for all of those switches (and they could have afforded to do so, since the boards were used in their most expensive counters, the 5345A and 5370A/B). You may need to pull the front panel board and verify that all of the switches move freely with good contact action. Swab some Caig ProGold or a similar product on the contacts and pads while you're in there. If you end up needing to service the board, a 5345A can act as a parts donor. Unlike 5370s, 5345s are practically free for the shipping these days. I'm not sure their front end boards are configured identically, but the ones in my 5370Bs are marked 05345-60138 so they can't be too different. -- john, KE5FX Miles Design LLC ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale
Hi On Aug 29, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Tom Knox act...@hotmail.com wrote: I could be wrong but I thought when I priced these for work the BVA 8600 AT cut was substantially cheaper then that. I think the $11,000 is more in line with a BVA 8607 SC cut with an option. But from my point of view the close in Phase Noise on this particular oscillator is what dictates it's value. These BVA 8600's typically range from 110 to better then 120 dB @ 1Hz which is a big difference. If this BVA is at the low phase noise end of the range it could be a real bargain at $3000. Another option in the $3000 range is the Wenzel Blue Top ULPN oscillators. It may not match a good BVA inside 1Hz but will have at least a 20dB better noise floor from about 10KHz out. The other plus with a BVA is the the Quartz is capacitive coupled where most other oscillators have metal deposited directly on the Quartz which will interact over time I know of no such interaction in modern quartz resonators - what are you referring to here? Your Wentzel part likely has either an aluminum electrode or a chrome / gold electrode system on it. Neither one interacts with quartz. Bob and potentially diminish performance. As Tom and other explained prices go up exponentially for ULPN oscillators. Thomas Knox Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 12:53:47 -0400 From: paulsw...@gmail.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale OK but like a new car the value drops 50% off the lot. Anyway you slice it as nice as this might be I will stick with the $100 and less 10544/1081s 105s and sulzers. I may be a time-nut. But I am not time-Nutz. Perhaps for the lab that need it that is a darned good price. Regards Paul WB8TSL/1 On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Said Jackson saidj...@aol.com wrote: Yup, I heard price goes up from there... Sent From iPhone On Aug 29, 2013, at 8:37, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message 572a741b-0213-4f1c-ba59-c2d396a03...@aol.com, Said Jackson writes: These are about $11,000 or so new if I am not mistaken. Depends what options it has... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale
Hi Bob; I have mentioned a couple things recently that I thought would be common knowledge in the Time-Nuts community. The first was that 5MHz was a sweet spot for quartz oscillators such that doubling 5MHz would generally out perform a 10 MHz quartz oscillator. The other was the migration between quartz and the plating/deposition metal over extended periods of time causing a slight decrease in oscillator performance. These both seemed common knowledge to people I work with that are far more knowledgeable then myself. I am often on the steep part of the learning curve an don't always have time for a full explanations. I will inquire about how factual I was, and if I understood correctly I will pass on an explanation of the physics behind these beliefs. Or bow my head in shame. Tom From: li...@rtty.us Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 18:33:21 -0400 To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale Hi On Aug 29, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Tom Knox act...@hotmail.com wrote: I could be wrong but I thought when I priced these for work the BVA 8600 AT cut was substantially cheaper then that. I think the $11,000 is more in line with a BVA 8607 SC cut with an option. But from my point of view the close in Phase Noise on this particular oscillator is what dictates it's value. These BVA 8600's typically range from 110 to better then 120 dB @ 1Hz which is a big difference. If this BVA is at the low phase noise end of the range it could be a real bargain at $3000. Another option in the $3000 range is the Wenzel Blue Top ULPN oscillators. It may not match a good BVA inside 1Hz but will have at least a 20dB better noise floor from about 10KHz out. The other plus with a BVA is the the Quartz is capacitive coupled where most other oscillators have metal deposited directly on the Quartz which will interact over time I know of no such interaction in modern quartz resonators - what are you referring to here? Your Wentzel part likely has either an aluminum electrode or a chrome / gold electrode system on it. Neither one interacts with quartz. Bob and potentially diminish performance. As Tom and other explained prices go up exponentially for ULPN oscillators. Thomas Knox Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 12:53:47 -0400 From: paulsw...@gmail.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale OK but like a new car the value drops 50% off the lot. Anyway you slice it as nice as this might be I will stick with the $100 and less 10544/1081s 105s and sulzers. I may be a time-nut. But I am not time-Nutz. Perhaps for the lab that need it that is a darned good price. Regards Paul WB8TSL/1 On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Said Jackson saidj...@aol.com wrote: Yup, I heard price goes up from there... Sent From iPhone On Aug 29, 2013, at 8:37, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message 572a741b-0213-4f1c-ba59-c2d396a03...@aol.com, Said Jackson writes: These are about $11,000 or so new if I am not mistaken. Depends what options it has... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale
Hi Gold will diffuse into quartz very slowly. That diffusion causes no apparent change in the performance of the quartz. A chrome barrier improves adhesion and blocks any gold transfer. That's the only thing I have ever heard in terms of metal going into quartz. Bob On Aug 29, 2013, at 9:02 PM, Tom Knox act...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Bob; I have mentioned a couple things recently that I thought would be common knowledge in the Time-Nuts community. The first was that 5MHz was a sweet spot for quartz oscillators such that doubling 5MHz would generally out perform a 10 MHz quartz oscillator. The other was the migration between quartz and the plating/deposition metal over extended periods of time causing a slight decrease in oscillator performance. These both seemed common knowledge to people I work with that are far more knowledgeable then myself. I am often on the steep part of the learning curve an don't always have time for a full explanations. I will inquire about how factual I was, and if I understood correctly I will pass on an explanation of the physics behind these beliefs. Or bow my head in shame. Tom From: li...@rtty.us Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 18:33:21 -0400 To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale Hi On Aug 29, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Tom Knox act...@hotmail.com wrote: I could be wrong but I thought when I priced these for work the BVA 8600 AT cut was substantially cheaper then that. I think the $11,000 is more in line with a BVA 8607 SC cut with an option. But from my point of view the close in Phase Noise on this particular oscillator is what dictates it's value. These BVA 8600's typically range from 110 to better then 120 dB @ 1Hz which is a big difference. If this BVA is at the low phase noise end of the range it could be a real bargain at $3000. Another option in the $3000 range is the Wenzel Blue Top ULPN oscillators. It may not match a good BVA inside 1Hz but will have at least a 20dB better noise floor from about 10KHz out. The other plus with a BVA is the the Quartz is capacitive coupled where most other oscillators have metal deposited directly on the Quartz which will interact over time I know of no such interaction in modern quartz resonators - what are you referring to here? Your Wentzel part likely has either an aluminum electrode or a chrome / gold electrode system on it. Neither one interacts with quartz. Bob and potentially diminish performance. As Tom and other explained prices go up exponentially for ULPN oscillators. Thomas Knox Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 12:53:47 -0400 From: paulsw...@gmail.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] B.V.A. 8600 for sale OK but like a new car the value drops 50% off the lot. Anyway you slice it as nice as this might be I will stick with the $100 and less 10544/1081s 105s and sulzers. I may be a time-nut. But I am not time-Nutz. Perhaps for the lab that need it that is a darned good price. Regards Paul WB8TSL/1 On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Said Jackson saidj...@aol.com wrote: Yup, I heard price goes up from there... Sent From iPhone On Aug 29, 2013, at 8:37, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message 572a741b-0213-4f1c-ba59-c2d396a03...@aol.com, Said Jackson writes: These are about $11,000 or so new if I am not mistaken. Depends what options it has... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and
