Re: [time-nuts] potential source for cheap copy of labview

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

It is interesting as you go through the various student and home versions, just 
how
hard it is to figure out what you are (and are not) buying in each case. One 
example
would be the inclusion (or not) of GPIB capability. One would *assume* it’s in 
there and 
fully functional. At lest for me it’s a “must have” item on the check list. 

If anybody comes across a deep dive on what is / is not in each package, I’d 
certainly like to see it.  

Bob

> On Jun 19, 2015, at 1:40 PM, Eric Garner  wrote:
> 
> National Instruments (and may other vendors of software) has apparently
> cottoned on to the fact that if they don't start catering to the "Maker"
> market (I hate that term) that they will get left behind. In that spirit
> they have released a non-commercial licence of labview.
> 
> you can learn more about it here:
> 
> https://www.labviewmakerhub.com/
> 
> I mention it on this list since many of us would like to use labview in our
> home labs but haven't been willing to shell out for the exorbitant price.
> I'm currently using one of the  spare licences from work to to labview
> stuff at home, but i'd be willing to shell out the $49 to see what it got
> me. I'm sending this out in the spirit of information, I'd rather not have
> this devolve into the "labview sucks" sort of discussion that often comes
> up with it's mention.
> 
> I haven't explored it much, but wanted to send it out.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> --Eric
> _
> Eric Garner
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Re: [time-nuts] Close in phase noise of microwave VCOs

[Charles Steinmetz]

Rick wrote:


However, a better tutorial would be the one written by
HP's Dieter Scherer which was published in Microwaves
& RF Magazine (or possibly Microwave Journal).  I believe
the same content was available from HP as an Ap Note or
something.


I suspect the paper you are referring to is:

Design Principles and Test Methods for Low Phase Noise RF and 
Microwave Sources (Scherer, 1978)


It is available on Didier's site at:



There are two other Scherer papers there:

Generation of Low Phase Noise Microwave Signals (Scherer, 1981)


The "Art" of Phase Noise Measurement (Scherer, 1985)


Best regards,

Charles



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Re: [time-nuts] Testers needed: Arduino (Thunderbolt) TSIP Library

[Matthew George]

Dan I'm very interested and I'm very familiar with Linux and development.  And 
I have a tbolt ready to play with.  

Max NG7M

--
Matthew George
801-560-8754

> On Jun 18, 2015, at 8:32 PM, Dan Quigley  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I'm in the final stages of developing a new TSIP communications library for 
> Arduino devices.  What distinguishes this library from the others that I 
> found and mulled over, is an ability to configure and handle the TSIP packets 
> that arrive asynchronously via 232 serial I/O from a Thunderbolt.  The 
> library is being developed on UNO R3, Nano, Mega and DUE platforms (it should 
> work on others) and supports both UART-based, and software (bit-banged) 
> serial ports.  On systems (like DUE) it can use 8-byte precision floating 
> point.   Setup and use is straight-forward requiring only a handful of code 
> lines to get started.
> 
> Thus I am looking for a few volunteers with the hardware, time and desire to 
> help test and validate the utility of the library before I release it to the 
> community wild.  If you are interested please let me know off-list.
> 
> Best,
> Dan Quigley (N7HQ)
> 
> Note: The libraries are derived from the great work by Mark Sims, John Miles 
> and Tom Van Baak.  Please note this is not a "complete" Lady Heather-like 
> implementation, but the structure and base functionality is there to advance 
> it to that point. I also have a more complete library implemented in C# if 
> anyone is interested.
> 
> ___
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[time-nuts] potential source for cheap copy of labview

[Eric Garner]

National Instruments (and may other vendors of software) has apparently
cottoned on to the fact that if they don't start catering to the "Maker"
market (I hate that term) that they will get left behind. In that spirit
they have released a non-commercial licence of labview.

you can learn more about it here:

https://www.labviewmakerhub.com/

I mention it on this list since many of us would like to use labview in our
home labs but haven't been willing to shell out for the exorbitant price.
I'm currently using one of the  spare licences from work to to labview
stuff at home, but i'd be willing to shell out the $49 to see what it got
me. I'm sending this out in the spirit of information, I'd rather not have
this devolve into the "labview sucks" sort of discussion that often comes
up with it's mention.

I haven't explored it much, but wanted to send it out.



-- 
--Eric
_
Eric Garner
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A commands

[Bob Camp]

Hi

If you dig into the archives (maybe 3 years ago), there was a lot of digging 
into various 5680 commands. As you have noted, there apparently isn’t anything 
like a “standard” 5680. The appear to have made a number of different designs 
over the years. There are multiple different pc board layouts, and both parts 
stuffing and firmware differences within the layouts. About all you can be sure 
of when you see it’s a 5680 is the outer dimensions on the case ….

All that said, there *should* be a list of random commands that people tried 
and got responses to. This included some where the responses *probably* 
contained status information. I do not recall anybody ever coming up with a 
complete command list or a decoder from FEI. 

Bob

> On Jun 19, 2015, at 12:29 PM, EB4APL  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I was wondering if anybody has the full command set for this Rb oscillator.  
> I know that FE-5680A means very different things and some commands are unit 
> type dependent, but I think that there should be commands to monitor some 
> health data, something similar to the LPRO-101 and FRS-C which have analog 
> outputs of the lamp and oscillator voltages.
> Also since this unit has a 1PPS output, maybe a means of steering it is built 
> in.
> I have the FE-5680A Calibrator program by Bob Campbell VK4XV, but it only 
> uses the offset commands, maybe others have developed other programs or at 
> least have the command info.
> 
> Regards,
> Ignacio EB4APL
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A commands

[Cube Central]

Hi there

I've come across the following resources for the one I was fooling with...

Here, on the archive of this list:
https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2008-June/031663.html

Some more information:
http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/fei5650a/

A really good PDF here:
http://www.dd1us.de/Downloads/precise%20reference%20frequency%20rev%201_0.pdf

A datasheet with more information on the hexadecimal frequency setting:
http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/AD9830.pdf


Hope some of this helps!

-Randal "r3" of CubeCentral


-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of EB4APL
Sent: Friday, 19 June, 2015 10:30
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: [time-nuts] FE-5680A commands

Hello,

I was wondering if anybody has the full command set for this Rb oscillator.  I 
know that FE-5680A means very different things and some commands are unit type 
dependent, but I think that there should be commands to monitor some health 
data, something similar to the LPRO-101 and FRS-C which have analog outputs of 
the lamp and oscillator voltages.
Also since this unit has a 1PPS output, maybe a means of steering it is built 
in.
I have the FE-5680A Calibrator program by Bob Campbell VK4XV, but it only uses 
the offset commands, maybe others have developed other programs or at least 
have the command info.

Regards,
Ignacio EB4APL
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Re: [time-nuts] Close in phase noise of microwave VCOs

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

On 6/17/2015 11:36 PM, Attila Kinali wrote:


Do you have any recomendation, where an ordinary engineer could
read up on this topic?

Attila Kinali



There is always Floyd Gardners, Phase Lock Techniques.

However, a better tutorial would be the one written by
HP's Dieter Scherer which was published in Microwaves
& RF Magazine (or possibly Microwave Journal).  I believe
the same content was available from HP as an Ap Note or
something.

Can anyone give Attila pointer to this document?
I had a paper copy for many years but I am pretty
sure it was a victim of a major cleanup after I
retired.

Rick
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Re: [time-nuts] Testers needed: Arduino (Thunderbolt) TSIP Library

[Eric Garner]

I'd be interested in trying it out. I'm using the Teensy platform (
http://pjrc.com/teensy/index.html) but it's worked out very well for every
other library I've used with it so problems should be minimal or non
existent.

let me know if you want my help

-Eric

On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 7:32 PM, Dan Quigley  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm in the final stages of developing a new TSIP communications library
> for Arduino devices.  What distinguishes this library from the others that
> I found and mulled over, is an ability to configure and handle the TSIP
> packets that arrive asynchronously via 232 serial I/O from a Thunderbolt.
> The library is being developed on UNO R3, Nano, Mega and DUE platforms (it
> should work on others) and supports both UART-based, and software
> (bit-banged) serial ports.  On systems (like DUE) it can use 8-byte
> precision floating point.   Setup and use is straight-forward requiring
> only a handful of code lines to get started.
>
> Thus I am looking for a few volunteers with the hardware, time and desire
> to help test and validate the utility of the library before I release it to
> the community wild.  If you are interested please let me know off-list.
>
> Best,
> Dan Quigley (N7HQ)
>
> Note: The libraries are derived from the great work by Mark Sims, John
> Miles and Tom Van Baak.  Please note this is not a "complete" Lady
> Heather-like implementation, but the structure and base functionality is
> there to advance it to that point. I also have a more complete library
> implemented in C# if anyone is interested.
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>



-- 
--Eric
_
Eric Garner
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[time-nuts] FE-5680A commands

[EB4APL]

Hello,

I was wondering if anybody has the full command set for this Rb 
oscillator.  I know that FE-5680A means very different things and some 
commands are unit type dependent, but I think that there should be 
commands to monitor some health data, something similar to the LPRO-101 
and FRS-C which have analog outputs of the lamp and oscillator voltages.
Also since this unit has a 1PPS output, maybe a means of steering it is 
built in.
I have the FE-5680A Calibrator program by Bob Campbell VK4XV, but it 
only uses the offset commands, maybe others have developed other 
programs or at least have the command info.


Regards,
Ignacio EB4APL
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Re: [time-nuts] My HP 5370B reads 6 nS out!

[Peter Reilley]

I have installed TimeLab and am getting good results.   But I have
a question on how to setup my HP 5379B.

There are separate trigger level settings for start and stop.   In
my case I want to measure the period of the 1 PPS signal from my
Resolution T.   If the start and stop trigger levels are not EXACTLY
the same then won't the period measurement be wrong.   It seems
that using only the start trigger level for both start and stop
would be the correct way of doing it.

While TimeLab was running I adjusted both the start and stop trigger
levels.   It is clear that they both are setting their respective
trigger points.   Doesn't this effect the period measurement results? 

My setup;
1 PPS signal from GPS connected to start input.
Positive slope trigger both channels.
50 Ohm both channels.
Divide by 1 both channels.
DC coupling both channels.
Start switch set to COM.
Trigger level knobs set to where the trigger is consistent on both channels.


Thanks,
Pete.
 

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Reilley
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 12:46 PM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] My HP 5370B reads 6 nS out!

Bob;

It seems reasonable to calibrate my 5370B using the 1 PPS signal from my
Resolution T and assume that my rubidium oscillator is 6 X 10^-9 off.
There is no reason to believe that the GPS 1 PPS signal is wrong.

The FEI FE-5680A devices seem to be hard to determine what options they
actually have.   Perhaps it just needs calibration.

Pete.
 

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 7:02 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] My HP 5370B reads 6 nS out!

Hi
> On Jun 15, 2015, at 9:51 PM, Peter Reilley  wrote:
> 
> Frank;
> 
> Thanks for your long and detailed explanation.
> 
> I was able to get the internal OCXO to that precision but it was 
> probably luck
> to get the trimmer that close.   I worked at it for a while.
> 
> I am using T.I. mode with the averaging mode.   I assumed that it took 10K
> readings
> and averaged the results.   Is that not correct?   Is something mode
> complicated
> going on?
> 
> I will have to set up the GPIB and give that a try.   I did get TimeLab.
> This will be new territory to me.
> 
> I did try measuring it's own 10 MHz frequency with 1 sec gate time.   It
> bounces
> around by about +- 4 in the 10th decimal place.
> 
> Is my calibration with the rubidium oscillator valid?   Could it be
> that far off?

An "old style" analog tune Rb could tune a max of 1x10^-8. It's rare to see
them more than 3x10^-9 off. Most are running under 5x10^-10 when received
from the salvage yard. 

The "new style" digital tuned Rb's have a range limited by their VCXO (if
it's limited at all). They *should* be < 3x10^-9 as received from salvage.
They could be much further off.

Since all of these are tunable devices. The only way to be sure of their
accuracy is to calibrate them against something good.

Bob

> 
> I will have to ponder this some more.
> 
> 
> Pete.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Frank 
> Stellmach
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 5:01 PM
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: [time-nuts] My HP 5370B reads 6 nS out!
> 
> Pete,
> 
> you do not specify, whether you use FREQ or T.I. when you use the 
> averaging function.
> 
> First of all, its OCXO can be adjusted to a few parts in 1e-9 only, as 
> the trimmer is too unprecise.
> If the OCXO is running for several weeks already (idle state), its 
> drift may be as low as a few parts in 1e-10 or better.
> 
> If you put the instrument to FREQ mode, you may measure and the 10MHz 
> of the GPSDO standard to about 2e-11 resolution, if you use 1sec time 
> base on the 5370B.
> That should work also, if you directly measure 1pps, but you have to 
> properly adjust the trigger level.
> Important: Don't use the 10k statistics, set the 5370A also to 1sec 
> time base!
> Due to this low frequency, jitter should be higher, see specifications.
> 
> You better do statistics by means of a PC, over GPIB.
> That will show the 30ps jitter of the 5370B, and the jitter of the 
> GPSDO, on the order of 1e-10.
> 
> You may also calibrate the OCXO of the 5370B this way, instead of that 
> oscilloscope method.
> 
> I strongly recommend Timelab from John Miles to do these measurements 
> properly.
> http://www.ke5fx.com/timelab/readme.htm
> 
> 
> If you use the internal 10k statistics 10k, pay attention!!
> 
> In this instance, the 5370B will do the frequency measurement in a 
> different manner..
> Not 100% sure, it will be a sort of a T.I. measurement, calculated to 
> frequency.
> And that may produce a constant offset, if the internal T.I. 
> calibration is not done properly.
> Look into the specs, its absolute T.I. uncertainty is 1ns only, 
>

[time-nuts] Testers needed: Arduino (Thunderbolt) TSIP Library

[Dan Quigley]

Hello,

I'm in the final stages of developing a new TSIP communications library for 
Arduino devices.  What distinguishes this library from the others that I found 
and mulled over, is an ability to configure and handle the TSIP packets that 
arrive asynchronously via 232 serial I/O from a Thunderbolt.  The library is 
being developed on UNO R3, Nano, Mega and DUE platforms (it should work on 
others) and supports both UART-based, and software (bit-banged) serial ports.  
On systems (like DUE) it can use 8-byte precision floating point.   Setup and 
use is straight-forward requiring only a handful of code lines to get started.

Thus I am looking for a few volunteers with the hardware, time and desire to 
help test and validate the utility of the library before I release it to the 
community wild.  If you are interested please let me know off-list.

Best,
Dan Quigley (N7HQ)

Note: The libraries are derived from the great work by Mark Sims, John Miles 
and Tom Van Baak.  Please note this is not a "complete" Lady Heather-like 
implementation, but the structure and base functionality is there to advance it 
to that point. I also have a more complete library implemented in C# if anyone 
is interested.

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Re: [time-nuts] Close in phase noise of microwave VCOs

[Magnus Danielson]

Rick,

On 06/19/2015 07:32 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:

On 6/18/2015 1:20 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote:


The trick is to convert the 2nd degree loop to a 3rd degree loop, which
then allows for a 12 dB/oct slope, to counteract the 9 dB/oct slope.


No this is not correct.  A very conventional Type 2 loop, where the
loop filter consists of an integrator with series RC for the feedback,
and a resistor for the input, will suppress noise at 12 dB/octave with
the corner at w=1/RC.


Which was what I meant. You have your third pole in that filter, but you 
put away from the dominant pair.



A 3rd order loop is rarely helpful because
the noise is typically limited by phase detector noise floor.
Of all the many hundreds of PLL's I have designed, I don't remember
ever using 3rd order.


I think I just didn't use the terms you expected. Cool it.

Cheers,
Magnus
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Re: [time-nuts] Close in phase noise of microwave VCOs

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

On 6/18/2015 1:20 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote:


The trick is to convert the 2nd degree loop to a 3rd degree loop, which
then allows for a 12 dB/oct slope, to counteract the 9 dB/oct slope.


No this is not correct.  A very conventional Type 2 loop, where the
loop filter consists of an integrator with series RC for the feedback,
and a resistor for the input, will suppress noise at 12 dB/octave with
the corner at w=1/RC.  A 3rd order loop is rarely helpful because
the noise is typically limited by phase detector noise floor.
Of all the many hundreds of PLL's I have designed, I don't remember
ever using 3rd order.

Rick
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[time-nuts] S2xx Release Version 1.36

[Nuno Dias]

 Hi,

 I'm looking for information about the software release version 1.36
for a symmetricom S2xx (now microsemi), I'm interested to know the
changes from version 1.30 to version 1.36
 I tried to search in the site of microsemi without success, is anyone
aware where can I find this information?

Thanks,
Nuno
-- 
Nuno Dias 
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