Re: [time-nuts] Loran C returning to a station near you...
No sigs yet - I am friends with the tech at Wildwood and also have a monitor (with squelch) on the fx. Will advise list when they fire up. 73, Bill, WA2DVU Cape May, NJ - Just a few miles away from Wildwood. -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of David McGaw Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 11:32 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran C returning to a station near you... The word is that eLoran IS on in the US from Wildwood as of June 19. Has anyone noticed the signal? http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/loran-navigation-signal-back-on-and-better-than-before/article_21d19298-16d0-11e5-9a69-1343edc2e90b.html There is also a bill in the US House to reinstate Loran-C as eLoran. David N1HAC On 7/14/15 6:49 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Not to be to much of a downer here but ….. Loran for timing and an “Eastern WWVB” are two projects that seem to each have a life of their own. They seem to come up on some sort of cycle related to sun spots. Both have zero (or possibly less than that) percent mind share among those who would need to implement them into systems. Since there is major cost on the systems end, it would take “mandatory use” legislation to get them designed in. Without those design in’s, *having* a backup system is pretty useless. You are talking about billions of dollars and years of effort to hook them up …. If you are talking about “infinite budget” military systems, some of that may happen. I notice in the papers that “infinite budget” does not seem to apply to the US DOD these days. For commercial systems, nobody will significantly cut into profits to do something like this. Should they do this - sure. Will they do it - nope. Bob On Jul 14, 2015, at 4:49 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Poul-Henning, The reason to stay with the LORAN C style pulses is very very simple. It allows our time-nuts Austrons and SRS to work. Its the only way I get any of my tax dollars back. :-) The good news is no official government person reads time-nuts. Regards Paul On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 12:16 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message 55a4ac81.1030...@rubidium.dyndns.org, Magnus Danielson writes: The safety is relative, in that it takes quite a bit of more infrastructure compared to the jamming of GPS, and that lies in the wavelength of the signal than anything else. If the goal is a reliable backup for GPS, there are smarter ways to use the 100kHz band than Loran-C pulses, and there really isn't much reason to stay compatible with Loran-C receivers. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran C returning to a station near you...
Station in Wildwood, California, and mid west are sort of intact. Bill, WA2DVU -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Dale Cannon Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 1:18 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Loran C returning to a station near you... Folks, I know that there is a longing for LORAN-C to return, but this weekend, I did a Google Maps flyover of each of the US LORAN-C stations (takes less than an hour). Almost all of the antennas are gone and there are no cars in the parking lots (except at Seneca which became an Army depot). This means that the equipment is probably gone, too. Or maybe this stuff will show up at auction or on E-Bay and that would solve the Austron receiver problem.. Dale Cannon, KS4FA ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran C returning to a station near you...
It just depends what you mean by that :-) I could lock to Lessay and Anthorn at frequencies in the 136kHz amateur band, using some S/N DSP software writen by Peter Matinez G3PLX. Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com; Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran C returning to a station near you... In message 3e8a4741-f565-4d2f-834f-62eca1ca1...@n1k.org, Bob Camp writes: If you look at the spectral width of the existing Loran-C (or similar) waveform, it’s a massive thing. You would have a hard time coming up with something that spreads more crud around the VLF range. The reason Loran-C spreads crud is *only* the combinationa of the pulse-groups and the periodicity of the GRI. The pulses themselves are entirely contained inside the allocated frequency band. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Loran C returning to a station near you...
Folks, I know that there is a longing for LORAN-C to return, but this weekend, I did a Google Maps flyover of each of the US LORAN-C stations (takes less than an hour). Almost all of the antennas are gone and there are no cars in the parking lots (except at Seneca which became an Army depot). This means that the equipment is probably gone, too. Or maybe this stuff will show up at auction or on E-Bay and that would solve the Austron receiver problem.. Dale Cannon, KS4FA ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Firmware and antenna for Stanford Research FS700 Loran C frequency standard
Does anyone know of the latest firmware for the Stanford Research FS700 Loran-C frequency standard? I know someone who has one with firmware 1.20, but I don't know if there's any later firmware. I recall asking Stanford Research about firmware for the SR620 but got no response, so I don't know if I will have any better luck with the FS700. What's the best sort of antenna for these? I know Stanford sell one, and by the cost of new professional equipment, the $250 is not abnormally high, but I'd rather look at building something if I purchase one of these standards. I did think of using a half-wave dipole, but my garden is just a wee bit too small.:-) Dave -- Dr. David Kirkby Ph.D CEng MIET Kirkby Microwave Ltd Registered office: Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, Essex, CM3 6DT, UK. Registered in England and Wales, company number 08914892. http://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/ Tel: 07910 441670 / +44 7910 441670 (0900 to 2100 GMT only please) attachment: drkirkby.vcf___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran C returning to a station near you...
John I don't know if there was. But the timing receivers like the Austrons and SRS could really derive very accurate frequencies especially if you lived 60 miles from the transmitter. :-) Regards Paul. WB8TSL On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 4:23 AM, John C. Westmoreland, P.E. j...@westmorelandengineering.com wrote: Time-Nuts, Was better than 500 nS accuracy ever achieved with Loran? 73's, John Westmoreland AJ6BC On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 10:18 PM, Dale Cannon dalec...@cfl.rr.com wrote: Folks, I know that there is a longing for LORAN-C to return, but this weekend, I did a Google Maps flyover of each of the US LORAN-C stations (takes less than an hour). Almost all of the antennas are gone and there are no cars in the parking lots (except at Seneca which became an Army depot). This means that the equipment is probably gone, too. Or maybe this stuff will show up at auction or on E-Bay and that would solve the Austron receiver problem.. Dale Cannon, KS4FA ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] ULA launch of GPS IIF-10
Somewhere along the line I got added to the email blast list from ULA's communications group. I'm not sure I really belong on it, but it's fun to get space news hot off the press from time to time. This morning's message might be an interesting news bit for the time-nuts: Lift off! ULA Atlas V Launches GPS IIF-10 for the U.S. Air Force The United Launch Alliance Atlas V rocket lifted off at 11:36 a.m. EDT. This is the 10th of the final 12 satellites in block II. Best of luck for a good insertion and deployment which should be happening right now. Cheers, John K5IT ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran C returning to a station near you...
In message cad2jfai8ykhzqyci++pr8cezmgwy+fh3edusgwfysde50ff...@mail.gmail.com , paul swed writes: I don't know if there was. But the timing receivers like the Austrons and SRS could really derive very accurate frequencies especially if you lived 60 miles from the transmitter. :-) Distance makes a lot of difference. Short is good, in particular if there is no major variable water (lakes or groundwater) between you and the transmitter. The only downside to really short distance is that the sky-wave comes crashing down in no time, so tracking on the 3rd zero-crossing is very important. I have an animation showing typical skywaves at around 200km distance from Sylt here: http://phk.freebsd.dk/AducLoran/animation2.gif When skywaves are bad, they are as high or higher amplitude as the grounwave and arrive earlier than usual, but I have not managed to capture that and the capture process I use is to resource intensive to run constantly. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Firmware and antenna for Stanford Research FS700 Loran C frequency standard
In message 55a68425.6020...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk, Dr. David Kirkby - Kirkby Microwave Ltd writes: What's the best sort of antenna for these? I use a $20 loop antenna I have rigged up myself, it lives in my attic: http://phk.freebsd.dk/loran-c/Antenna/ -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran C returning to a station near you...
Speaking of which, here is a typical Loran-C item the government is selling for virtually scrap prices. There are a couple of these big-boy feedthroughs in this sale alone: http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=9831977 -Doug W6DSR -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Dale Cannon Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 10:18 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Loran C returning to a station near you... Folks, I know that there is a longing for LORAN-C to return, but this weekend, I did a Google Maps flyover of each of the US LORAN-C stations (takes less than an hour). Almost all of the antennas are gone and there are no cars in the parking lots (except at Seneca which became an Army depot). This means that the equipment is probably gone, too. Or maybe this stuff will show up at auction or on E-Bay and that would solve the Austron receiver problem.. Dale Cannon, KS4FA ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] UrsaNav LORAN next test date
I reached out to UrsaNav and asked when the next test would be. They were very responsive. Wildwood, NJ will be on air from 0900 (local) on 20 July until 0900 (local) on 23 July for an eLoran test. So fire up your Austrons and SRS units. There will be additional tests and they may be from different sites. UrsaNav plans to post the schedules on their site when it firms up. Regards Paul WB8TSL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Firmware and antenna for Stanford Research FS700 Loran C frequency standard
David Any LORAN C boat antenna will work fine. I do know that if you have a distribution system then to make the SRS happy you need to add a 420 ohm R to ground to act as a antenna preamp current load. It checks. Equally a fet/transistor VLF preamp will work well. Even a long length of wire if the signals strong. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 12:02 PM, Dr. David Kirkby - Kirkby Microwave Ltd drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk wrote: Does anyone know of the latest firmware for the Stanford Research FS700 Loran-C frequency standard? I know someone who has one with firmware 1.20, but I don't know if there's any later firmware. I recall asking Stanford Research about firmware for the SR620 but got no response, so I don't know if I will have any better luck with the FS700. What's the best sort of antenna for these? I know Stanford sell one, and by the cost of new professional equipment, the $250 is not abnormally high, but I'd rather look at building something if I purchase one of these standards. I did think of using a half-wave dipole, but my garden is just a wee bit too small.:-) Dave -- Dr. David Kirkby Ph.D CEng MIET Kirkby Microwave Ltd Registered office: Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, Essex, CM3 6DT, UK. Registered in England and Wales, company number 08914892. http://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/ Tel: 07910 441670 / +44 7910 441670 (0900 to 2100 GMT only please) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Firmware and antenna for Stanford Research FS700 Loran C frequency standard
Hi Dave: I've used both an active short whip antennas and what may be better a long wire (100 feet) resonated with a series inductor (Miller adjustable 3 mH). http://www.prc68.com/I/LF-Ant.shtml http://www.prc68.com/I/Spec_0002.shtml Mail_Attachment -- Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html http://www.prc68.com/I/DietNutrition.html Dr. David Kirkby - Kirkby Microwave Ltd wrote: Does anyone know of the latest firmware for the Stanford Research FS700 Loran-C frequency standard? I know someone who has one with firmware 1.20, but I don't know if there's any later firmware. I recall asking Stanford Research about firmware for the SR620 but got no response, so I don't know if I will have any better luck with the FS700. What's the best sort of antenna for these? I know Stanford sell one, and by the cost of new professional equipment, the $250 is not abnormally high, but I'd rather look at building something if I purchase one of these standards. I did think of using a half-wave dipole, but my garden is just a wee bit too small.:-) Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran C returning to a station near you...
In message 3e8a4741-f565-4d2f-834f-62eca1ca1...@n1k.org, Bob Camp writes: If you look at the spectral width of the existing Loran-C (or similar) waveform, it’s a massive thing. You would have a hard time coming up with something that spreads more crud around the VLF range. The reason Loran-C spreads crud is *only* the combinationa of the pulse-groups and the periodicity of the GRI. The pulses themselves are entirely contained inside the allocated frequency band. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran C returning to a station near you...
Time-Nuts, Was better than 500 nS accuracy ever achieved with Loran? 73's, John Westmoreland AJ6BC On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 10:18 PM, Dale Cannon dalec...@cfl.rr.com wrote: Folks, I know that there is a longing for LORAN-C to return, but this weekend, I did a Google Maps flyover of each of the US LORAN-C stations (takes less than an hour). Almost all of the antennas are gone and there are no cars in the parking lots (except at Seneca which became an Army depot). This means that the equipment is probably gone, too. Or maybe this stuff will show up at auction or on E-Bay and that would solve the Austron receiver problem.. Dale Cannon, KS4FA ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran C returning to a station near you...
I did fire up the srs last week and did not here it? I will fire up a LF receiver and listen. Perhaps my preamp is sick. Regards Paul. On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 11:32 PM, David McGaw n1...@dartmouth.edu wrote: The word is that eLoran IS on in the US from Wildwood as of June 19. Has anyone noticed the signal? http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/loran-navigation-signal-back-on-and-better-than-before/article_21d19298-16d0-11e5-9a69-1343edc2e90b.html There is also a bill in the US House to reinstate Loran-C as eLoran. David N1HAC On 7/14/15 6:49 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Not to be to much of a downer here but ….. Loran for timing and an “Eastern WWVB” are two projects that seem to each have a life of their own. They seem to come up on some sort of cycle related to sun spots. Both have zero (or possibly less than that) percent mind share among those who would need to implement them into systems. Since there is major cost on the systems end, it would take “mandatory use” legislation to get them designed in. Without those design in’s, *having* a backup system is pretty useless. You are talking about billions of dollars and years of effort to hook them up …. If you are talking about “infinite budget” military systems, some of that may happen. I notice in the papers that “infinite budget” does not seem to apply to the US DOD these days. For commercial systems, nobody will significantly cut into profits to do something like this. Should they do this - sure. Will they do it - nope. Bob On Jul 14, 2015, at 4:49 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Poul-Henning, The reason to stay with the LORAN C style pulses is very very simple. It allows our time-nuts Austrons and SRS to work. Its the only way I get any of my tax dollars back. :-) The good news is no official government person reads time-nuts. Regards Paul On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 12:16 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message 55a4ac81.1030...@rubidium.dyndns.org, Magnus Danielson writes: The safety is relative, in that it takes quite a bit of more infrastructure compared to the jamming of GPS, and that lies in the wavelength of the signal than anything else. If the goal is a reliable backup for GPS, there are smarter ways to use the 100kHz band than Loran-C pulses, and there really isn't much reason to stay compatible with Loran-C receivers. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran C returning to a station near you...
In message 73568e39-9467-4192-aeb8-c9c14a2bb...@n1k.org, Bob Camp writes: I notice in the papers that “infinite budget” does not seem to apply to the US DOD these days. *cough* F-35 *cough* B61-mod12 *cough* -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
