Re: [time-nuts] RG 6 U couplings
Real RG58 has a copper wire shield. Real RG6 has a copper wire shield. RG58 and RG6 tend to leak RF a bit. Real Quad 6 has aluminum foil and aluminum wire shields. Quad 6 was designed to use multiple layers of grounding shield to prevent this leakage. RG6 should have the same foam center insulation as the Quad, only it should have fewer shield layers. -Chuck Harris Hal Murray wrote: cfhar...@erols.com said: It is important to note that RG58 <> RG6 <> Quad RG6. They are each different in diameter, loss, and shielding capability. Is the attenuation of RG6 significantly different from Quad RG6? I'd expect the loss to be primarily determined by the size of the center conductor which would be the same. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] (no subject)
Greetings all, My name is Jim, I'm a Noob to your list. A local DoD contractor unloaded a heap of test equipment lately, and I scored a 5065A. It's s/n 1532A00666, has an Olive green-ish RVFR, and a 00105-6103, series 1284 Quartz oscillator. I have had the instrument powered up for about an hour now. (I first checked the +/- 20V supplies and they're OK.) I have a 1A source connected to the TE lines. At the end of the 1st hour here's what I'm seeing (Open Loop Mode). Batt 48 Supply 38 Lamp Oven 30 (down from 50) Cell Oven 30 (down from 50) Osc Oven 44 (down from 50) Photo 28 5 MHz 32 Control, Error, 2nd Harmonic all read 0 I adjusted the Quartz Coarse control to be within 10-7. Fine is set to 250. Synth output measures 5.315 005 728 MHz, and is about 1.8 Vpp. Control, Error, 2nd Harmonic all read 0 after I switch to Closed Loop and hit 'Start' Please advise on next steps... Thanks ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RG 6 U couplings
If you do use 75 Ohm Type N connectors, do NOT attempt to mate them with a 50 Ohm connector. The center pins are different diameters to get the different impedance. To mate a 50 Ohm Type N male with a 75 Ohm female will guarantee destruction of the female connector. I have had to clean up behind someone that dis not know the difference and took a large downlink dish off line as the spread fingers of the 75 Ohm Type N broke off and shouted the cable and the LNB supply voltage. There are also 50 and 75 Ohm BNC connectors, but, they achieve the impedance difference bu use of dielectric, These connectors can be mated 50 to 75 Ohm with out damage. Just to warn of the possible damage. 73 Glenn WB4UIV On 12/6/2015 10:16 AM, David J Taylor wrote: David, You obviously is not working with 75 Ohm N-connectors on a regular basis. Also, the point was to show that using proper connectors isn't going to be a major issue in the loss process. Cheers, Magnus Magnus, No, I've never seen a 75-ohm N connector, nor an N connector to fit RG-6U cable. What a sheltered life I've led! But I quite agree that for receivers, using 75-ohm components in a 50-ohm system (with care) isn't an issue for an amplified GPS antenna. Cheers, David -- --- Glenn LittleARRL Technical Specialist QCWA LM 28417 Amateur Callsign: WB4UIVwb4...@arrl.netAMSAT LM 2178 QTH: Goose Creek, SC USA (EM92xx) USSVI LM NRA LM SBE ARRL TAPR "It is not the class of license that the Amateur holds but the class of the Amateur that holds the license" --- ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RG 6 U couplings
Hi The first gotcha is that RG-6 is a “generic” spec. You can find some really awful cable with a label that says it’s RG-6. The biggest advantage of quad shield is that it’s intended for satellite use. That’s right up by the GPS frequencies so what ever they do, the voodoo likely works at GPS as well. All that said, yes, quad shield should have slightly lower attenuation. You also get loss from the uniformity (or lack of) of the shield. Bob > On Dec 6, 2015, at 7:23 PM, Hal Murray wrote: > > > cfhar...@erols.com said: >> It is important to note that RG58 <> RG6 <> Quad RG6. They are each >> different in diameter, loss, and shielding capability. > > Is the attenuation of RG6 significantly different from Quad RG6? > > I'd expect the loss to be primarily determined by the size of the center > conductor which would be the same. > > > > -- > These are my opinions. I hate spam. > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RG 6 U couplings
cfhar...@erols.com said: > It is important to note that RG58 <> RG6 <> Quad RG6. They are each > different in diameter, loss, and shielding capability. Is the attenuation of RG6 significantly different from Quad RG6? I'd expect the loss to be primarily determined by the size of the center conductor which would be the same. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RG 6 U couplings
I use mostly Quad RG6, and I use the Ideal ratchet crimper and fittings as are available from Lowes, or Home Despot. It is important to note that RG58 <> RG6 <> Quad RG6. They are each different in diameter, loss, and shielding capability. Each needs a different sized "F" connector, and crimping die. Fortunately the Ideal crimping die has all three sizes. -Chuck Harris F. W. Bray wrote: For those of us in the U.S., does anyone have suggestions of vendors or brands of quality connectors and installation tools? Over the years, I worked my way up from cheap wire terminals to PIDG connectors and the correct tools. Rather than repeat the process with F connectors, I'm willing to pay a bit more the first time to do it right. Fred KE6CD ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RG 6 U couplings
Try not to laugh to hard but the compression connectors and crimper for RG6 style cables I picked up at Home Depot in Canada a few years ago seems to work quite well. I have used high quality pro tools at work over the years (mostly though I watch other people use them on occasion these days (: ). But the Home Depot one I purchased seems ok to me for home / hobby use. As noted by others I believe it is important to match the tool to the connectors. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 6, 2015, at 7:20 AM, F. W. Bray wrote: > > For those of us in the U.S., does anyone have suggestions of vendors or > brands of quality connectors and installation tools? > > Over the years, I worked my way up from cheap wire terminals to PIDG > connectors and the correct tools. Rather than repeat the process with F > connectors, I'm willing to pay a bit more the first time to do it right. > > Fred > KE6CD > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 6, 2015, at 4:44 AM, Bob Camp wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> I agree 100% with the recommendation of compression connectors and of the >> CX3 in particular. The only thing I would add is that they require a proper >> tool >> to “compress” them. I have found that some of the tools are pretty brand >> specific. >> You may need to match the tool to the connector. >> >> Bob >> >>> On Dec 5, 2015, at 11:38 PM, Arnold Tibus wrote: >>> >>> Hi Bert and the group, >>> >>> I can highly recommend the so called compression F-connectors. >>> There are a lot of brands out, but my personal favorite is the >>> Waterproof CX3 Quickmount >>> from Corning Cabelcon, because they have very good rf and mechanical data. >>> They are not only weatherproof and corrosion resistant (NiTin-alloy), but >>> they are really watertight (tested 8h at 30m) and accept a quite high >>> pull strength of up to typical 480N. >>> The RF shielding and impedance data are also very good. >>> >>> For outside I use successful since years a black polyethylen insulated >>> cable >>> which is really weatherproof and UV resistant and triple shielded with >>> tinned copper >>> braid (I don't like aluminum braid because the low mech. performance). >>> >>> Just for overview information (I have no relation to this company!): >>> http://www.cabelcon.dk/download/CX3Folder_May2012.pdf >>> >>> One may find similar connectors made by other companies. >>> >>> The only 'negative' point is the need of a compression tool. >>> >>> So I think this would be a very good solution for repair and connection >>> in general of RG6 and similar types also for GPS use. >>> >>> Kind regards >>> >>> Arnold, DK2WT >>> >>> >>> Am 05.12.2015 um 21:28 schrieb Bert Kehren via time-nuts: At my new home the GPS antenna location has turned in to a challenge. May have to splice RG 6U. Has any one done measurements on couplings and the loss associated with them. Right now I am considering a female, female coupling. Is there a better alternative? Thanks Bert Kehren Palm City Fl. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RG 6 U couplings
Also, don't scrimp and cheap out on a cable prep / stripping tool. I tried a couple of the inexpensive types ($5 to $10 variety), the sort of worked but were frustrating to use and do a good job. Best one I have found is the Cable Prep (bran name) CPT-6590 for RG59 and RG6 size cables. They also make other sizes, for example CPT-1100 for RG7 and RG11 size cables. They are a good quality tool that will last a very long time in a home lab and make the job much easier. cheers, Graham ve3gtc On 2015-12-06 15:20, F. W. Bray wrote: For those of us in the U.S., does anyone have suggestions of vendors or brands of quality connectors and installation tools? Over the years, I worked my way up from cheap wire terminals to PIDG connectors and the correct tools. Rather than repeat the process with F connectors, I'm willing to pay a bit more the first time to do it right. Fred KE6CD Sent from my iPhone On Dec 6, 2015, at 4:44 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi I agree 100% with the recommendation of compression connectors and of the CX3 in particular. The only thing I would add is that they require a proper tool to “compress” them. I have found that some of the tools are pretty brand specific. You may need to match the tool to the connector. Bob On Dec 5, 2015, at 11:38 PM, Arnold Tibus wrote: Hi Bert and the group, I can highly recommend the so called compression F-connectors. There are a lot of brands out, but my personal favorite is the Waterproof CX3 Quickmount from Corning Cabelcon, because they have very good rf and mechanical data. They are not only weatherproof and corrosion resistant (NiTin-alloy), but they are really watertight (tested 8h at 30m) and accept a quite high pull strength of up to typical 480N. The RF shielding and impedance data are also very good. For outside I use successful since years a black polyethylen insulated cable which is really weatherproof and UV resistant and triple shielded with tinned copper braid (I don't like aluminum braid because the low mech. performance). Just for overview information (I have no relation to this company!): http://www.cabelcon.dk/download/CX3Folder_May2012.pdf One may find similar connectors made by other companies. The only 'negative' point is the need of a compression tool. So I think this would be a very good solution for repair and connection in general of RG6 and similar types also for GPS use. Kind regards Arnold, DK2WT Am 05.12.2015 um 21:28 schrieb Bert Kehren via time-nuts: At my new home the GPS antenna location has turned in to a challenge. May have to splice RG 6U. Has any one done measurements on couplings and the loss associated with them. Right now I am considering a female, female coupling. Is there a better alternative? Thanks Bert Kehren Palm City Fl. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RG 6 U couplings
I've seen data re delay vs temperature for high end 50 ohm cables. I've never seen it for 75 ohm CATV style cable. Back when I was into time nuts pursuits this was one of the main reasons I was contemplating switching my GPS antenna feed line to hardline. I never made the change but still have the hardline. To this day I still use Teflon RG58 style cable (purchased surplus from Boeing decades ago) for my GPS antenna fee line to the splitter. I doubt I will ever change it out. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 6, 2015, at 4:21 AM, Attila Kinali wrote: > > On Sat, 5 Dec 2015 17:06:03 -0800 > Mark Spencer wrote: > >> Over the years I've used a number of CATV style 75 ohm patch cords >> with F connectors, F female to female couplers and F to other connector >> adaptors to distribute gps signals from my GPS splitter to various >> receivers. I've never been able to notice any difference in reported >> signal strength vs using "brand name" 50 ohm coax with N connectors. > > Well, putting the numbers into a calculator gives: > VSWR: 1.5 > Load Return loss: -14dB > Load Mismatch Attenuation: -0.2dB > > I'd say that for a receiver, this is quite negligible. Heck, even 1dB > loss wouldn't hurt too much. I would suggest, that for all practical > purposes, the use of (good) satellite coax cable would be more than > good enough for most of us. The only thing i'm not sure about is how > the delay through the cable behaves over time (aging, temperature, humidity). > If anyone has some data on that, for different types of cables, I > would appreciate getting a copy :-) > >Attila Kinali > > -- > It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All > the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no > use without that foundation. > -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] RG 6 U couplings
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 15:28:29 -0500 From: ewkeh...@aol.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] RG 6 U couplings Message-ID: <1b190f.7a5b4c94.4394a...@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" At my new home the GPS antenna location has turned in to a challenge. May have to splice RG 6U. Has any one done measurements on couplings and the loss associated with them. Right now I am considering a female, female coupling. Is there a better alternative? Thanks Bert Kehren Palm City Fl. -- Bert, I have used RG-6 with F connectors and barrel splices for many years with very good results. I do use the good waterproof connectors which I was able to find at Lowes. They also have the tool to compress the fittings. Much more convenient that N connectors for the RG-6. 73 Gordon WA4FJC ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RG 6 U couplings
Hi I’ve always shopped the auction sites. I buy both the connectors and the tool from the same guy at the same time. So far that’s worked pretty well. It does take some time sorting through the “almost as good as” or “better than but not that part number” type listings. The sellers change fast enough that the guy I bought from a year ago may be the last person on the planet you would want to use today. Bob > On Dec 6, 2015, at 10:20 AM, F. W. Bray wrote: > > For those of us in the U.S., does anyone have suggestions of vendors or > brands of quality connectors and installation tools? > > Over the years, I worked my way up from cheap wire terminals to PIDG > connectors and the correct tools. Rather than repeat the process with F > connectors, I'm willing to pay a bit more the first time to do it right. > > Fred > KE6CD > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 6, 2015, at 4:44 AM, Bob Camp wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> I agree 100% with the recommendation of compression connectors and of the >> CX3 in particular. The only thing I would add is that they require a proper >> tool >> to “compress” them. I have found that some of the tools are pretty brand >> specific. >> You may need to match the tool to the connector. >> >> Bob >> >>> On Dec 5, 2015, at 11:38 PM, Arnold Tibus wrote: >>> >>> Hi Bert and the group, >>> >>> I can highly recommend the so called compression F-connectors. >>> There are a lot of brands out, but my personal favorite is the >>> Waterproof CX3 Quickmount >>> from Corning Cabelcon, because they have very good rf and mechanical data. >>> They are not only weatherproof and corrosion resistant (NiTin-alloy), but >>> they are really watertight (tested 8h at 30m) and accept a quite high >>> pull strength of up to typical 480N. >>> The RF shielding and impedance data are also very good. >>> >>> For outside I use successful since years a black polyethylen insulated >>> cable >>> which is really weatherproof and UV resistant and triple shielded with >>> tinned copper >>> braid (I don't like aluminum braid because the low mech. performance). >>> >>> Just for overview information (I have no relation to this company!): >>> http://www.cabelcon.dk/download/CX3Folder_May2012.pdf >>> >>> One may find similar connectors made by other companies. >>> >>> The only 'negative' point is the need of a compression tool. >>> >>> So I think this would be a very good solution for repair and connection >>> in general of RG6 and similar types also for GPS use. >>> >>> Kind regards >>> >>> Arnold, DK2WT >>> >>> >>> Am 05.12.2015 um 21:28 schrieb Bert Kehren via time-nuts: At my new home the GPS antenna location has turned in to a challenge. May have to splice RG 6U. Has any one done measurements on couplings and the loss associated with them. Right now I am considering a female, female coupling. Is there a better alternative? Thanks Bert Kehren Palm City Fl. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RG 6 U couplings
I just /happened/ to be in Home Depot this morning, and observed that they have a complete kit -- connectors and tool for something like $30. It was in the electrical tools area, if this is any help. Jim wb4...@amsat.org // On 12/6/2015 9:25 AM, Arnold Tibus wrote: Hi Bob, you are correct with the special compression tool. I did it mention as a 'negative' point. Yes, the right tool is obligatory, but the dealers do have normally these in the list with the connectors, I am using the correct tool of course. I also 'misused' these connectors for my ZS6BKW-type antenna. I connected just the shield of a hi Q SAT cable with PE outer insulation as areal wire - fixation and contacting via these connectors. No changes and no damages since 2 years out in sunhine, rain, ice, snow and heavy storms mounted up on the hill and 10 m above ground --> 100 % mechanical and electrical test approved as well for such not nominal use! Arnold, DK2WT Am 06.12.2015 um 13:44 schrieb Bob Camp: Hi I agree 100% with the recommendation of compression connectors and of the CX3 in particular. The only thing I would add is that they require a proper tool to “compress” them. I have found that some of the tools are pretty brand specific. You may need to match the tool to the connector. Bob On Dec 5, 2015, at 11:38 PM, Arnold Tibus wrote: Hi Bert and the group, I can highly recommend the so called compression F-connectors. There are a lot of brands out, but my personal favorite is the Waterproof CX3 Quickmount from Corning Cabelcon, because they have very good rf and mechanical data. They are not only weatherproof and corrosion resistant (NiTin-alloy), but they are really watertight (tested 8h at 30m) and accept a quite high pull strength of up to typical 480N. The RF shielding and impedance data are also very good. For outside I use successful since years a black polyethylen insulated cable which is really weatherproof and UV resistant and triple shielded with tinned copper braid (I don't like aluminum braid because the low mech. performance). Just for overview information (I have no relation to this company!): http://www.cabelcon.dk/download/CX3Folder_May2012.pdf One may find similar connectors made by other companies. The only 'negative' point is the need of a compression tool. So I think this would be a very good solution for repair and connection in general of RG6 and similar types also for GPS use. Kind regards Arnold, DK2WT Am 05.12.2015 um 21:28 schrieb Bert Kehren via time-nuts: At my new home the GPS antenna location has turned in to a challenge. May have to splice RG 6U. Has any one done measurements on couplings and the loss associated with them. Right now I am considering a female, female coupling. Is there a better alternative? Thanks Bert Kehren Palm City Fl. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RG 6 U couplings
Bert, I'm suspect you already know this but, depending on the age of the installation, the outlets might be 'daisy chained' rather than 'home-runs'. If 'daisy chained' and there has been any renovations to the home, the abandoned outlets may have been sheet-rocked over. Good luck. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bert Kehren via time-nuts Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2015 5:24 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RG 6 U couplings Thank you all for the information, worse case I look at 70 feet with two couplings all in an inaccessible attic. The cable is quality but vintage 1989. Part of an extensive cable TV wiring. So far nine with two I am not able to locate the other end.The way they are installed I am not able yet to use one of them to pull a new one in. Twenty years ago I probably would have risked crawling in there. Don't want to fall 16 feet at age 73. Bert Kehren Palm City . In a message dated 12/5/2015 5:11:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org writes: Bert, Extending the RG-6U using N-connectors should not be giving you more than 0.20 dB, probably less. Considering that you have have 6.12 dB per 100 feet in RG-6U at 1 GHz (should be about 8 dB @ 1.575 GHz), so it will be more. Using N-connectors to extend the cable-stretch isn't going to be a major issue, it may be the cable length that could present an issue. I've been fighting these issues, and used too long cable at hand (RG-58 is a terrible choice but was lying around at the time). I use LMR-400 these days, giving me about 5.1 dB per 100 feet. If cable and connector damping causes you harm, then consider installing an additional LNA inline with the antenna. Hope it sort itself out for you. Cheers, Magnus On 12/05/2015 09:28 PM, Bert Kehren via time-nuts wrote: > At my new home the GPS antenna location has turned in to a challenge. May > have to splice RG 6U. Has any one done measurements on couplings and > the loss associated with them. Right now I am considering a female, > female coupling. Is there a better alternative? > Thanks Bert Kehren Palm City Fl. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RG 6 U couplings
Hi Most of these antennas have 25 to 35 db of gain in their preamps. The noise figure of most receive modules is in the ~ 1 db range. You do not need much net gain to keep the system running. Anything over about 8 db or so is “gravy”. If you have one of the 35 db antennas, you can have a *lot* of coax loss. Indeed there *are* receivers out there that have much worse noise figures on the front end. One quick hint that you have one of these is the 50 db gain antenna that comes with it. The bigger issue is not “what works today” but what works a few years down the road. None of these parts get better with age. Each of them have degradation mechanism. Having some surplus gain at the start is a rational way to design a system that will work for a while. Bob > On Dec 6, 2015, at 10:07 AM, Rob Sherwood. wrote: > > I initially had 50 feet of RG-58/U going to my GPS antenna. The loss was > likely around 12 dB. That cable eventually failed, and all I had was a 100 > foot length of the same type of cable, and surprisingly the GPSDO still > worked ok. Recently I purchased a 35 foot length of 3/8th inch hardline with > factory-installed N connectors on eBay for $40. The loss should be less then > 2 dB. Obviously it works, but I cannot tell that the 10 dB reduced loss from > the original cable made any difference. Rob, NC0B > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Dec 6, 2015, at 7:00 AM, "David J Taylor" >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Bert, >> >> Extending the RG-6U using N-connectors should not be giving you more >> than 0.20 dB, probably less. Considering that you have have 6.12 dB per >> 100 feet in RG-6U at 1 GHz (should be about 8 dB @ 1.575 GHz), so it >> will be more. Using N-connectors to extend the cable-stretch isn't going >> to be a major issue, it may be the cable length that could present an issue. >> [] >> Cheers, >> Magnus >> = >> >> From: Bert Kehren via time-nuts >> >> Thank you all for the information, worse case I look at 70 feet with two >> couplings all in an inaccessible attic. The cable is quality but vintage >> 1989. Part of an extensive cable TV wiring. So far nine with two I am not >> able >> to locate the other end.The way they are installed I am not able yet to use >> one of them to pull a new one in. >> Twenty years ago I probably would have risked crawling in there. Don't want >> to fall 16 feet at age 73. >> Bert Kehren Palm City . >> >> >> Magnus, >> >> RG-6U is 75-ohm cable and uses type F connectors (horrible!). Any F-N >> adapters and the impedance mismatch would surely introduce more loss than a >> simple Female-Female F connector. >> >> Bert, >> >> If the cable is that old, 1989, I would consider replacing it with a more >> recently purchased cable, which will not have deteriorated, and may have >> lower loss. I appreciate that may not be possible in your case. >> >> Cheers, >> David >> -- >> SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements >> Web: http://www.satsignal.eu >> Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk >> Twitter: @gm8arv >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> >> -- >> If this email is spam, report it to >> https://support.onlymyemail.com/view/report_spam/ODExMjI6MTgzMTgxMzk0Nzpyb2JAbmMwYi5jb206ZGVsaXZlcmVk >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RG 6 U couplings
For those of us in the U.S., does anyone have suggestions of vendors or brands of quality connectors and installation tools? Over the years, I worked my way up from cheap wire terminals to PIDG connectors and the correct tools. Rather than repeat the process with F connectors, I'm willing to pay a bit more the first time to do it right. Fred KE6CD Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 6, 2015, at 4:44 AM, Bob Camp wrote: > > Hi > > I agree 100% with the recommendation of compression connectors and of the > CX3 in particular. The only thing I would add is that they require a proper > tool > to “compress” them. I have found that some of the tools are pretty brand > specific. > You may need to match the tool to the connector. > > Bob > >> On Dec 5, 2015, at 11:38 PM, Arnold Tibus wrote: >> >> Hi Bert and the group, >> >> I can highly recommend the so called compression F-connectors. >> There are a lot of brands out, but my personal favorite is the >> Waterproof CX3 Quickmount >> from Corning Cabelcon, because they have very good rf and mechanical data. >> They are not only weatherproof and corrosion resistant (NiTin-alloy), but >> they are really watertight (tested 8h at 30m) and accept a quite high >> pull strength of up to typical 480N. >> The RF shielding and impedance data are also very good. >> >> For outside I use successful since years a black polyethylen insulated >> cable >> which is really weatherproof and UV resistant and triple shielded with >> tinned copper >> braid (I don't like aluminum braid because the low mech. performance). >> >> Just for overview information (I have no relation to this company!): >> http://www.cabelcon.dk/download/CX3Folder_May2012.pdf >> >> One may find similar connectors made by other companies. >> >> The only 'negative' point is the need of a compression tool. >> >> So I think this would be a very good solution for repair and connection >> in general of RG6 and similar types also for GPS use. >> >> Kind regards >> >> Arnold, DK2WT >> >> >> >>> Am 05.12.2015 um 21:28 schrieb Bert Kehren via time-nuts: >>> At my new home the GPS antenna location has turned in to a challenge. May >>> have to splice RG 6U. Has any one done measurements on couplings and the >>> loss associated with them. Right now I am considering a female, female >>> coupling. Is there a better alternative? >>> Thanks Bert Kehren Palm City Fl. >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RG 6 U couplings
David, You obviously is not working with 75 Ohm N-connectors on a regular basis. Also, the point was to show that using proper connectors isn't going to be a major issue in the loss process. Cheers, Magnus Magnus, No, I've never seen a 75-ohm N connector, nor an N connector to fit RG-6U cable. What a sheltered life I've led! But I quite agree that for receivers, using 75-ohm components in a 50-ohm system (with care) isn't an issue for an amplified GPS antenna. Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk Twitter: @gm8arv ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RG 6 U couplings
I initially had 50 feet of RG-58/U going to my GPS antenna. The loss was likely around 12 dB. That cable eventually failed, and all I had was a 100 foot length of the same type of cable, and surprisingly the GPSDO still worked ok. Recently I purchased a 35 foot length of 3/8th inch hardline with factory-installed N connectors on eBay for $40. The loss should be less then 2 dB. Obviously it works, but I cannot tell that the 10 dB reduced loss from the original cable made any difference. Rob, NC0B Sent from my iPad > On Dec 6, 2015, at 7:00 AM, "David J Taylor" > wrote: > > > > Bert, > > Extending the RG-6U using N-connectors should not be giving you more > than 0.20 dB, probably less. Considering that you have have 6.12 dB per > 100 feet in RG-6U at 1 GHz (should be about 8 dB @ 1.575 GHz), so it > will be more. Using N-connectors to extend the cable-stretch isn't going > to be a major issue, it may be the cable length that could present an issue. > [] > Cheers, > Magnus > = > > From: Bert Kehren via time-nuts > > Thank you all for the information, worse case I look at 70 feet with two > couplings all in an inaccessible attic. The cable is quality but vintage > 1989. Part of an extensive cable TV wiring. So far nine with two I am not > able > to locate the other end.The way they are installed I am not able yet to use > one of them to pull a new one in. > Twenty years ago I probably would have risked crawling in there. Don't want > to fall 16 feet at age 73. > Bert Kehren Palm City . > > > Magnus, > > RG-6U is 75-ohm cable and uses type F connectors (horrible!). Any F-N > adapters and the impedance mismatch would surely introduce more loss than a > simple Female-Female F connector. > > Bert, > > If the cable is that old, 1989, I would consider replacing it with a more > recently purchased cable, which will not have deteriorated, and may have > lower loss. I appreciate that may not be possible in your case. > > Cheers, > David > -- > SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements > Web: http://www.satsignal.eu > Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk > Twitter: @gm8arv > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > > > -- > If this email is spam, report it to > https://support.onlymyemail.com/view/report_spam/ODExMjI6MTgzMTgxMzk0Nzpyb2JAbmMwYi5jb206ZGVsaXZlcmVk > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RG 6 U couplings
Hi Bob, you are correct with the special compression tool. I did it mention as a 'negative' point. Yes, the right tool is obligatory, but the dealers do have normally these in the list with the connectors, I am using the correct tool of course. I also 'misused' these connectors for my ZS6BKW-type antenna. I connected just the shield of a hi Q SAT cable with PE outer insulation as areal wire - fixation and contacting via these connectors. No changes and no damages since 2 years out in sunhine, rain, ice, snow and heavy storms mounted up on the hill and 10 m above ground --> 100 % mechanical and electrical test approved as well for such not nominal use! Arnold, DK2WT Am 06.12.2015 um 13:44 schrieb Bob Camp: > Hi > > I agree 100% with the recommendation of compression connectors and of the > CX3 in particular. The only thing I would add is that they require a proper > tool > to “compress” them. I have found that some of the tools are pretty brand > specific. > You may need to match the tool to the connector. > > Bob > >> On Dec 5, 2015, at 11:38 PM, Arnold Tibus wrote: >> >> Hi Bert and the group, >> >> I can highly recommend the so called compression F-connectors. >> There are a lot of brands out, but my personal favorite is the >> Waterproof CX3 Quickmount >> from Corning Cabelcon, because they have very good rf and mechanical data. >> They are not only weatherproof and corrosion resistant (NiTin-alloy), but >> they are really watertight (tested 8h at 30m) and accept a quite high >> pull strength of up to typical 480N. >> The RF shielding and impedance data are also very good. >> >> For outside I use successful since years a black polyethylen insulated >> cable >> which is really weatherproof and UV resistant and triple shielded with >> tinned copper >> braid (I don't like aluminum braid because the low mech. performance). >> >> Just for overview information (I have no relation to this company!): >> http://www.cabelcon.dk/download/CX3Folder_May2012.pdf >> >> One may find similar connectors made by other companies. >> >> The only 'negative' point is the need of a compression tool. >> >> So I think this would be a very good solution for repair and connection >> in general of RG6 and similar types also for GPS use. >> >> Kind regards >> >> Arnold, DK2WT >> >> >> >> Am 05.12.2015 um 21:28 schrieb Bert Kehren via time-nuts: >>> At my new home the GPS antenna location has turned in to a challenge. May >>> have to splice RG 6U. Has any one done measurements on couplings and the >>> loss associated with them. Right now I am considering a female, female >>> coupling. Is there a better alternative? >>> Thanks Bert Kehren Palm City Fl. >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RG 6 U couplings
David, You obviously is not working with 75 Ohm N-connectors on a regular basis. Also, the point was to show that using proper connectors isn't going to be a major issue in the loss process. Cheers, Magnus On 12/06/2015 07:58 AM, David J Taylor wrote: Bert, Extending the RG-6U using N-connectors should not be giving you more than 0.20 dB, probably less. Considering that you have have 6.12 dB per 100 feet in RG-6U at 1 GHz (should be about 8 dB @ 1.575 GHz), so it will be more. Using N-connectors to extend the cable-stretch isn't going to be a major issue, it may be the cable length that could present an issue. [] Cheers, Magnus = From: Bert Kehren via time-nuts Thank you all for the information, worse case I look at 70 feet with two couplings all in an inaccessible attic. The cable is quality but vintage 1989. Part of an extensive cable TV wiring. So far nine with two I am not able to locate the other end.The way they are installed I am not able yet to use one of them to pull a new one in. Twenty years ago I probably would have risked crawling in there. Don't want to fall 16 feet at age 73. Bert Kehren Palm City . Magnus, RG-6U is 75-ohm cable and uses type F connectors (horrible!). Any F-N adapters and the impedance mismatch would surely introduce more loss than a simple Female-Female F connector. Bert, If the cable is that old, 1989, I would consider replacing it with a more recently purchased cable, which will not have deteriorated, and may have lower loss. I appreciate that may not be possible in your case. Cheers, David ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RG 6 U couplings
Hi I agree 100% with the recommendation of compression connectors and of the CX3 in particular. The only thing I would add is that they require a proper tool to “compress” them. I have found that some of the tools are pretty brand specific. You may need to match the tool to the connector. Bob > On Dec 5, 2015, at 11:38 PM, Arnold Tibus wrote: > > Hi Bert and the group, > > I can highly recommend the so called compression F-connectors. > There are a lot of brands out, but my personal favorite is the > Waterproof CX3 Quickmount > from Corning Cabelcon, because they have very good rf and mechanical data. > They are not only weatherproof and corrosion resistant (NiTin-alloy), but > they are really watertight (tested 8h at 30m) and accept a quite high > pull strength of up to typical 480N. > The RF shielding and impedance data are also very good. > > For outside I use successful since years a black polyethylen insulated > cable > which is really weatherproof and UV resistant and triple shielded with > tinned copper > braid (I don't like aluminum braid because the low mech. performance). > > Just for overview information (I have no relation to this company!): > http://www.cabelcon.dk/download/CX3Folder_May2012.pdf > > One may find similar connectors made by other companies. > > The only 'negative' point is the need of a compression tool. > > So I think this would be a very good solution for repair and connection > in general of RG6 and similar types also for GPS use. > > Kind regards > > Arnold, DK2WT > > > > Am 05.12.2015 um 21:28 schrieb Bert Kehren via time-nuts: >> At my new home the GPS antenna location has turned in to a challenge. May >> have to splice RG 6U. Has any one done measurements on couplings and the >> loss associated with them. Right now I am considering a female, female >> coupling. Is there a better alternative? >> Thanks Bert Kehren Palm City Fl. >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RG 6 U couplings
On Sat, 5 Dec 2015 17:06:03 -0800 Mark Spencer wrote: > Over the years I've used a number of CATV style 75 ohm patch cords > with F connectors, F female to female couplers and F to other connector > adaptors to distribute gps signals from my GPS splitter to various > receivers. I've never been able to notice any difference in reported > signal strength vs using "brand name" 50 ohm coax with N connectors. Well, putting the numbers into a calculator gives: VSWR: 1.5 Load Return loss: -14dB Load Mismatch Attenuation: -0.2dB I'd say that for a receiver, this is quite negligible. Heck, even 1dB loss wouldn't hurt too much. I would suggest, that for all practical purposes, the use of (good) satellite coax cable would be more than good enough for most of us. The only thing i'm not sure about is how the delay through the cable behaves over time (aging, temperature, humidity). If anyone has some data on that, for different types of cables, I would appreciate getting a copy :-) Attila Kinali -- It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no use without that foundation. -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RG 6 U couplings
Bert, Extending the RG-6U using N-connectors should not be giving you more than 0.20 dB, probably less. Considering that you have have 6.12 dB per 100 feet in RG-6U at 1 GHz (should be about 8 dB @ 1.575 GHz), so it will be more. Using N-connectors to extend the cable-stretch isn't going to be a major issue, it may be the cable length that could present an issue. [] Cheers, Magnus = From: Bert Kehren via time-nuts Thank you all for the information, worse case I look at 70 feet with two couplings all in an inaccessible attic. The cable is quality but vintage 1989. Part of an extensive cable TV wiring. So far nine with two I am not able to locate the other end.The way they are installed I am not able yet to use one of them to pull a new one in. Twenty years ago I probably would have risked crawling in there. Don't want to fall 16 feet at age 73. Bert Kehren Palm City . Magnus, RG-6U is 75-ohm cable and uses type F connectors (horrible!). Any F-N adapters and the impedance mismatch would surely introduce more loss than a simple Female-Female F connector. Bert, If the cable is that old, 1989, I would consider replacing it with a more recently purchased cable, which will not have deteriorated, and may have lower loss. I appreciate that may not be possible in your case. Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk Twitter: @gm8arv ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
