Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?
But speculations half the fun. Interesting chart. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 7:03 PM, Pieter-Tjerk de Boer wrote: > > On http://websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8901/fullday/ , one can see that the extra > LORAN signal has been on the air roughly from 16:26 till 17:30 UTC: the > waterfall clearly shows that the total received power around 100 kHz was > higher during that time. > > One also sees that just _before_ the start of the "extra" signal, the total > power was _lower_ than the "usual" value, implying that Anthorn (which is > now the strongest signal here) was off-air; it seems to have been on the > air only intermittently between 15:00 and 16:26 UTC. > > So whatever it was that happened this afternoon, it wasn't just the switch > on of Lessay (if at all), something was (also) going on at Anthorn... > That might be a hint that the extra signal also came from Anthorn, e.g. > a dual-rate test. But this is of course just speculation. > > Regards, > Pieter-Tjerk, PA3FWM > > > > On Mon, Jan 04, 2016 at 02:19:29PM -0500, paul swed wrote: > > I somewhat may guess its Anthorn. > > My 2 cents from across the ocean. > > > > The Brits are pretty good about shutting things down. The fact that > Anthorn > > stayed operational was pretty odd even if you thought the new years > parties > > got in the way. Lets face it drink beer with friends or shut a > transmitter > > in some far away place. I know my choice. > > > > They can easily dual rate Anthorn. But then the signal level should be > > equal. > > On eLORAN tests in the US its a Master and the Y station. But its one > > transmitter. The same transmitter has no problem with some other rate > > running at the same time. > > > > Regards > > Paul > > WB8TSL > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 1:19 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp > > wrote: > > > > > > > > In message <576b98.2a1f5672.43bc0...@aol.com>, GandalfG8--- via > time-nuts > > > writes: > > > > > > >As of 1725, 4th January, Lessay seems to have been transmitting > again for > > > >at least 30 minutes, and showing the same or a slightly stronger > signal > > > >here on the west coast of Scotland than Anthorn. > > > > > > Are you sure it's not UK trying to rig something up for their eLoran > > > trials ? > > > > > > -- > > > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > > > p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > > > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > > > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by > incompetence. > > > ___ > > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > > To unsubscribe, go to > > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?
On http://websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8901/fullday/ , one can see that the extra LORAN signal has been on the air roughly from 16:26 till 17:30 UTC: the waterfall clearly shows that the total received power around 100 kHz was higher during that time. One also sees that just _before_ the start of the "extra" signal, the total power was _lower_ than the "usual" value, implying that Anthorn (which is now the strongest signal here) was off-air; it seems to have been on the air only intermittently between 15:00 and 16:26 UTC. So whatever it was that happened this afternoon, it wasn't just the switch on of Lessay (if at all), something was (also) going on at Anthorn... That might be a hint that the extra signal also came from Anthorn, e.g. a dual-rate test. But this is of course just speculation. Regards, Pieter-Tjerk, PA3FWM On Mon, Jan 04, 2016 at 02:19:29PM -0500, paul swed wrote: > I somewhat may guess its Anthorn. > My 2 cents from across the ocean. > > The Brits are pretty good about shutting things down. The fact that Anthorn > stayed operational was pretty odd even if you thought the new years parties > got in the way. Lets face it drink beer with friends or shut a transmitter > in some far away place. I know my choice. > > They can easily dual rate Anthorn. But then the signal level should be > equal. > On eLORAN tests in the US its a Master and the Y station. But its one > transmitter. The same transmitter has no problem with some other rate > running at the same time. > > Regards > Paul > WB8TSL > > > On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 1:19 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp > wrote: > > > > > In message <576b98.2a1f5672.43bc0...@aol.com>, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts > > writes: > > > > >As of 1725, 4th January, Lessay seems to have been transmitting again for > > >at least 30 minutes, and showing the same or a slightly stronger signal > > >here on the west coast of Scotland than Anthorn. > > > > Are you sure it's not UK trying to rig something up for their eLoran > > trials ? > > > > -- > > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > > p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] (OT) Looking for a paper from NAV01 (RIN International Conference on Navigation)
On Sat, 2 Jan 2016 11:11:50 + Philip Pemberton wrote: > I've even contacted the RIN, but -- from what they told me -- they don't > archive their journals (that's under the remit of Cambridge University > Press) or conference proceedings... That's weird. The RIN website has an explicit conference proceedings download page: http://members.rin.org.uk/conferencepapers/conferencepapers.aspx They list there a special email address confere...@rin.org.uk as contact to ask for access. I don't know what their requirements are but if they are anything like the Royal Society, then there is a good chance you'll get access. > This paper is on a commercial LF navigation system called "Datatrak" > which I've been researching. I've got a MkII "Locator" receiver on my > bench, and I'm trying to build a signal generator which will allow it to > power on and locate itself (or rather decode the sythetic signals from > the generator into a location). Interesting. If you get access to the paper, i would be interested in it as well. Attila Kinali -- It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no use without that foundation. -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?
If I remember correctly the GLA(Trinity Ho.) has a contact with Babcock who run Anthorn which goes through to 2019 or 2020. The notice to mariners did not mention Anthorn but it did request that nav. receivers be turned off. If TH terminate that contact they will presumably have to pay Babcock anyway so they may as well continue "playing". From the papers it would seem the North Sea study has been completed. I am just surprised that, naively, they did not get assurance from the French that they would keep Lessay running, because the move to eLoran was very much promoted by the French though they did not get a lot of support from other European countries. I remember being told by a senior member of the RIN that he thought it was a "dead duck" and a waste of money. Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: "GandalfG8--- via time-nuts" To: Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 7:26 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air? >As of 1725, 4th January, Lessay seems to have been transmitting again for at least 30 minutes, and showing the same or a slightly stronger signal here on the west coast of Scotland than Anthorn. Are you sure it's not UK trying to rig something up for their eLoran trials ? = I'm pretty sure now that's exactly what it was, and keeping my fingers crossed it'll be permanent once they finish playing:-) Regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?
Nigel In the US at least for the eastern half of the country the test station has been on lately for several weeks at a shot. Not exactly the old days but a great resource besides GPS to check my various references and note offsets and such using the austrons and SRS. I would agree 1 db difference is nothing and its the same station.Enjoy it while you have it. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 2:26 PM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts < time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: > >As of 1725, 4th January, Lessay seems to have been transmitting again > for > >at least 30 minutes, and showing the same or a slightly stronger signal > >here on the west coast of Scotland than Anthorn. > > Are you sure it's not UK trying to rig something up for their eLoran trials > ? > > = > > I'm pretty sure now that's exactly what it was, and keeping my fingers > crossed it'll be permanent once they finish playing:-) > > Regards > > Nigel > GM8PZR > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?
This could just be wishful thinking but I'm still hoping it might stay for some time yet. The UK General Lighthouse Authorities have been running their eLoran trials since 2007 so perhaps they found sufficient incentive within that time to keep going. Time will tell, but as you suggest I'm just going to enjoy it for as long as it lasts or, with a bit of luck, for as long as I do:-) Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 04/01/2016 20:06:16 GMT Standard Time, paulsw...@gmail.com writes: Nigel In the US at least for the eastern half of the country the test station has been on lately for several weeks at a shot. Not exactly the old days but a great resource besides GPS to check my various references and note offsets and such using the austrons and SRS. I would agree 1 db difference is nothing and its the same station.Enjoy it while you have it. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 2:26 PM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts <_time-nuts@febo.com_ (mailto:time-nuts@febo.com) > wrote: >As of 1725, 4th January, Lessay seems to have been transmitting again for >at least 30 minutes, and showing the same or a slightly stronger signal >here on the west coast of Scotland than Anthorn. Are you sure it's not UK trying to rig something up for their eLoran trials ? = I'm pretty sure now that's exactly what it was, and keeping my fingers crossed it'll be permanent once they finish playing:-) Regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- _time-nuts@febo.com_ (mailto:time-nuts@febo.com) To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?
I'm pretty sure it was Anthorn. It was showing as the Master and Y stations, and the individual signal levels as indicated on an FS700 were within 1dB, which would seem a reasonable tolerance on equal signal levels given that the FS700 only reports to the nearest 1dB anyway:-) Still just showing Anthorn's "own" signal for now but I'll check again during working hours tomorrow. Although I've seen it claimed otherwise I never found anything to suggest Anthorn would be closing down with the other stations anyway so wasn't surprised when it didn't. I hadn't considered this latest scenario but it does make sense if they intend to keep going for now. Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 04/01/2016 19:19:30 GMT Standard Time, paulsw...@gmail.com writes: I somewhat may guess its Anthorn. My 2 cents from across the ocean. The Brits are pretty good about shutting things down. The fact that Anthorn stayed operational was pretty odd even if you thought the new years parties got in the way. Lets face it drink beer with friends or shut a transmitter in some far away place. I know my choice. They can easily dual rate Anthorn. But then the signal level should be equal. On eLORAN tests in the US its a Master and the Y station. But its one transmitter. The same transmitter has no problem with some other rate running at the same time. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 1:19 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp <_phk@phk.freebsd.dk_ (mailto:p...@phk.freebsd.dk) > wrote: In message <_576b98.2a1f5672.43bc052e@aol.com_ (mailto:576b98.2a1f5672.43bc0...@aol.com) >, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts writes: >As of 1725, 4th January, Lessay seems to have been transmitting again for >at least 30 minutes, and showing the same or a slightly stronger signal >here on the west coast of Scotland than Anthorn. Are you sure it's not UK trying to rig something up for their eLoran trials ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- _time-nuts@febo.com_ (mailto:time-nuts@febo.com) To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?
I somewhat may guess its Anthorn. My 2 cents from across the ocean. The Brits are pretty good about shutting things down. The fact that Anthorn stayed operational was pretty odd even if you thought the new years parties got in the way. Lets face it drink beer with friends or shut a transmitter in some far away place. I know my choice. They can easily dual rate Anthorn. But then the signal level should be equal. On eLORAN tests in the US its a Master and the Y station. But its one transmitter. The same transmitter has no problem with some other rate running at the same time. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 1:19 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > In message <576b98.2a1f5672.43bc0...@aol.com>, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts > writes: > > >As of 1725, 4th January, Lessay seems to have been transmitting again for > >at least 30 minutes, and showing the same or a slightly stronger signal > >here on the west coast of Scotland than Anthorn. > > Are you sure it's not UK trying to rig something up for their eLoran > trials ? > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?
>As of 1725, 4th January, Lessay seems to have been transmitting again for >at least 30 minutes, and showing the same or a slightly stronger signal >here on the west coast of Scotland than Anthorn. Are you sure it's not UK trying to rig something up for their eLoran trials ? = I'm pretty sure now that's exactly what it was, and keeping my fingers crossed it'll be permanent once they finish playing:-) Regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?
In message <576b98.2a1f5672.43bc0...@aol.com>, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts writes: >As of 1725, 4th January, Lessay seems to have been transmitting again for >at least 30 minutes, and showing the same or a slightly stronger signal >here on the west coast of Scotland than Anthorn. Are you sure it's not UK trying to rig something up for their eLoran trials ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?
Definitely something unusual going on, overall signal level as monitored on an SDR is significantly lower than normal and seems to have dropped out from time to time, and as of approximately 1750 the master signal is no longer present. Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 04/01/2016 17:26:06 GMT Standard Time, gandal...@aol.com writes: As of 1725, 4th January, Lessay seems to have been transmitting again for at least 30 minutes, and showing the same or a slightly stronger signal here on the west coast of Scotland than Anthorn. I've never seen this before, Anthorn is much closer and has always been a stronger signal so I'm quite intrigued, and tempted to wonder whether Anthorn is now also transmitting the master signal. Regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?
As of 1725, 4th January, Lessay seems to have been transmitting again for at least 30 minutes, and showing the same or a slightly stronger signal here on the west coast of Scotland than Anthorn. I've never seen this before, Anthorn is much closer and has always been a stronger signal so I'm quite intrigued, and tempted to wonder whether Anthorn is now also transmitting the master signal. Regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
