date:20160326

Hi


> On Mar 26, 2016, at 2:49 PM, Alex Pummer  wrote:
> 
> I am perhaps to late now,I found the e-mail recently:
> "
>> sockets can be an issue. With wire leads, you are asking for trouble.
>> 
>> Functionally, there is little there is little difference between a glass
> 
> package crystal
> 
>> and a metal package. About the only real one is the obvious - one has a metal
> 
> shield
> 
> you can (but sometimes don’t)  ground.
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> "
> 
> 
> the glass packed ones will have much better vacuum, therefore higher Q
> I still have some KVG glass envelope crystals [116MHz overtone] from the 60 
> -ties

That may have been true in the 1950’s but once modern cold weld packages came 
along it quickly
became a non-issue.  The Q dependance of crystals to atmosphere is a function 
of frequency. A
118 MHz crystal shows much less impact from a given level of “air” than 
something like a 2.5 MHz
5th overtone.

Bob


> 73
> KJ6UHN
> Alex
> 
> On 2/2/2016 2:37 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
>> Hi
>> 
>> I think you will find that the Russian versions were used without ovens for 
>> a long time. In the US, the only
>> use for the glass packages past the mid 1960’s was in ovens.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:43 PM, iovane--- via time-nuts  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think that these crystals were designed to be placed in an oven, which 
>>> worked
>>> as a shield too. I have a similar crystal made by Racal in the 60's, and in 
>>> my
>>> case it is fitted with the classic octal tube-type plug. It was housed 
>>> (still
>>> is) in a heavy massive shimmering chrome-plated cylindrical brass 
>>> enclosure, a
>>> beauty to see, It was the timebase of a tube-type synthesizer with lots of
>>> tubes. Themperature control was achieved by means of a mercury thermometer 
>>> in
>>> which mercury actuated a contact when reaching a wire crossing the capillary
>>> tube.
>>> 
>>> Antonio I8IOV
>>> 
 Da: Bob Camp 
 Data: 02/02/2016 13.15
 A: "Discussion of precise time and frequency 
 measurement"
 Ogg: Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals
 
 Hi
 
 Since the 25 MHz crystal has already been soldered into a circuit, putting 
 it
>>> in a
 socket is probably not a real good idea. It’s also a leaded part. Even with
>>> fat pins
 sockets can be an issue. With wire leads, you are asking for trouble.
 
 Functionally, there is little there is little difference between a glass
>>> package crystal
 and a metal package. About the only real one is the obvious - one has a 
 metal
>>> shield
 you can (but sometimes don’t)  ground.
 
 Bob
 
 
> On Feb 1, 2016, at 9:58 PM, Daniel Watson  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I purchased a pair of interesting glass envelope crystals for a project.
> Here are some pictures:
> 
> http://syncchannel.blogspot.com/2016/02/glass-envelope-quartz-crystals.html
> 
> Does anyone have an idea about what mount/socket I should buy for these? I
> read a previous thread on the list about Bliley crystals using a B7G 
> mount,
> but I'm not sure if that type might work here.
> 
> Also, when building up a circuit to make these oscillate, are there any
> specific differences about crystals in this package that I should keep in
> mind?
> 
> 
> Thanks much,
> 
> Dan W.
>>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] high rev isolation amps

2016-03-26 Thread John Ackermann N8UR

In light of this discussion, I'm taking a deep gulp to mention a project 
that's finished but has been on my back burner for a while.


A few years ago I laid out a high isolation, low noise buffer amp based 
on one of Bruce's cascaded-transistor designs.  Isolation was measured 
in excess of 100dB with PN floor around -170dBc/Hz.  The frequency range 
is 1 MHz to 30 MHz and gain can be set from -10 to +7 dB.  It's designed 
for 18VDC input but will work at 13.8, with less headroom.  At 18V it 
can put out close to +20dBm.  It's a 1.75 x 3.75 inch board using SMT 
parts (nothing tiny, but *lots* of passives -- about 80 parts total).


The board is ready to go, but I wasn't sure if there would be enough 
interest to justify production.  Given the tedious surface mount 
assembly, I assumed that there wouldn't be much interest in a kit, and 
an assembly run requires at least 50, and preferably 100, units to get a 
reasonable price.  At 100 units, I hope the price for an assembled board 
could be below $100, but no guarantees.


If there is enough interest, TAPR could consider doing a production run. 
 If not, I'll release the design package including Gerbers.


I'll try to get some better documentation put together in the next week 
or two, and figure out a way to create a sign-up list for people who are 
interested.  We'd have to have a minimum number of committed orders 
before kicking things off.


John


On 03/26/2016 08:24 PM, jimlux wrote:

On 3/26/16 4:14 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:

Nothing has come to my attention in the last
35 years that is superior for buffer amplifiers
to the simple cascade of grounded base transistors
as described by numerous NBS/NIST papers.
The chain usually starts with a common emitter
(with emitter degeneration resistor), which
is an even older NBS classic.

I realize you asked for an OTS connectorized
version.  Unfortunately, I have never seen
one of these offered in said 35 years.


Yeah, i've spent a while looking through various catalogs..

Odd that nobody sells one: sure, it's probably a limited market, but
there's plenty of companies that sell limited market widgets (e.g. I'm
surprised Wenzel doesn't sell one.. in the online catalog info, they
don't even give S12 data of any kind)




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Re: [time-nuts] HP 58501A reference clocks

Hi

I wold not be at all surprised if it has a previous location surveyed into it’s 
little 
brain. As long as it still thinks it’s in Virginia (or wherever) it’s not going 
to 
lock up in it’s new home. 

Depending where it came from, it might be a lab unit for initial design 
checkout.
If HP shipped a unit like that to a customer, it would be the first example 
I’ve seen. 
Since there are a *lot* of things I have not seen … that may not mean much. 

Bob

> On Mar 26, 2016, at 7:13 PM, Steve D  wrote:
> 
> Hi group,
> 
> I recently purchased an HP 58XXXA or 58501A precision reference clock unit.
> The unit is clearly a prototype made by HP for Ericsson GE. The front label
> actually says 58XXXA. The serial number of the unit is EGE001P. It has a
> GPS antenna in and 10 MHz, 19.2 MHz, 9600 kHz and a 600/300/100 Hz outputs.
> Inside is has a main board with part # 58501-60001, a 10 MHz OCXO part #
> 05071-60219, a Motorola GPS part # 84D43215M02, a hand built board which
> generates (likely phase locked) 19.2 MHz from the 10 MHz, a hand built
> board to hold the three front mounted LED's and a third party power supply.
> 
> At power up the front panel power LED comes on and a second later the GPS
> and ALARM LED's toggle on/off in sequence. The main board LED's also all
> toggle and then one of them flashes once per second. I can communicate with
> the unit via SCPI using 9600/8/N/1 RS232 data.  I was able to verify the
> GPS does receive a signal as the time is correct and the date updates but
> is 1024 weeks behind(GPS rollover bug). However the "GPS LOCK" and "ALARM"
> LED's never do anything. The 10 MHz out the back does travel between
> 9,999,997 and 10,000,003 Hz which follows the EFC test point voltage that
> goes between -5 and +5 volts. I have found very few SCPI commands that
> work. At this point they are:
> 
> *IDN? which gives: HEWLETT-PACKARD,58501A,0,Fiji_EGE
> *CLS
> *TST? which gives 1 (possibly indicating a rom error)
> PTIME:DATE?
> PTIME:TIME?
> SYSTEM:ERROR?
> 
> I have pulled the four firmware roms and reseated them as well as the
> Xilinx chip, it made no difference. So the question is, did it ever work or
> has something failed?
> 
> I find it to be a fascinating piece of equipment and think the hand built
> boards are super cool to see, but lets face it, it would be more fun if it
> worked.
> 
> I have posted pictures and a firmware dump on the eevblog forum here:
> http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/prototype-hpagilent-gps-based-refererence-clocks-generator/
> 
> I'm coming to this group to see if anyone has any ideas or knowledge of the
> unit.
> 
> thank you!
> 
> Steve VE7FM
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Re: [time-nuts] high rev isolation amps

If you ask Mini-Circuits about the details of their amps that are specified as 
to having high reverse isolation, they have a pad in the circuit. I don't know 
whether it is in the input or the output.  Maybe both, looking at a ZFL-2AD 
specs. 

>From a Mini-Circuits data sheet it says: active directivity (dB) = isolation 
>(dB) - gain (dB) 

Rob
NC0B

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 26, 2016, at 6:00 PM, "Bruce Griffiths"  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Saturday, March 26, 2016 09:30:30 PM Rob Sherwood. wrote:
>> You cannot add the directivity and gain.  Doesn't work that way.  Rob, NC0B.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
> Minicircuits would disagree with that and its their amplifier.
> 
> Bruce
>> 
>>> On Mar 26, 2016, at 2:00 PM, "jimlux"  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Consulting the time-nuts hive mind here..
>>> 
>>> I'm looking for off the shelf connectorized amplifiers with very good
>>> reverse isolation for doing things like intermod measurements (e.g. 2
>>> signal generators followed by amps/pads into a combiner) and phase noise
>>> measurements for a digital receiver.
>>> 
>>> 1-100 MHz kind of frequency range..
>>> 
>>> I've used ZFL-500LN (30dB gain, 27 dB directivity in the data sheet, which
>>> I interpret as 57dB reverse) , ZX60-4016 (really more of a microwave amp,
>>> and not so hot reverse wise.. 25 dB)
>>> 
>>> I'm not particularly cost constrained, so a higher power amp (which also
>>> reduces distortion products from the amp) followed by pads is always an
>>> alternative. ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the
>>> instructions there.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] high rev isolation amps

I use two ZHL-32A buffer amps, the appropriate Mini-Circuits LPFs, and 20 dB 
pads into a 4-way Mini-Circuits combiner. I believe it is ports 2&3 that have 
even better isolation than a 2-way combiner.  These buffer amps run on 24 
volts, where the ZFL-500LN doesn't have the output capability to test 100+ dB 
radios.  Some tests need a third signal source and complimentary buffer amp and 
associated items. 

To test a K3S or an IC-7851, it also requires HP 8642A generators that have 
lower phase noise than these top of the line rigs.  Even my 8662A generators 
are not good enough, though they were 5 years ago.  Now add the Flex 6700 and 
the ANAN-200D, the RMDR performance of a hand full of rigs is amazing. 

Unfortunately transmitter performance has not kept pace with receiver 
improvement. 

It will be interesting to test the new IC-7300 DSR with knobs (and lots of 
menus). 

Rob
NC0B

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 26, 2016, at 6:00 PM, "jimlux"  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3/26/16 2:30 PM, Rob Sherwood. wrote:
>> You cannot add the directivity and gain.  Doesn't work that way.  Rob, NC0B.
>> 
> 
> Yeah, I kind of figured that after getting the S parameters from minicircuits.
> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Mar 26, 2016, at 2:00 PM, "jimlux"  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Consulting the time-nuts hive mind here..
>>> 
>>> I'm looking for off the shelf connectorized amplifiers with very good 
>>> reverse isolation for doing things like intermod measurements (e.g. 2 
>>> signal generators followed by amps/pads into a combiner) and phase noise 
>>> measurements for a digital receiver.
>>> 
>>> 1-100 MHz kind of frequency range..
>>> 
>>> I've used ZFL-500LN (30dB gain, 27 dB directivity in the data sheet, which 
>>> I interpret as 57dB reverse) , ZX60-4016 (really more of a microwave amp, 
>>> and not so hot reverse wise.. 25 dB)
>>> 
>>> I'm not particularly cost constrained, so a higher power amp (which also 
>>> reduces distortion products from the amp) followed by pads is always an 
>>> alternative.
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to 
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
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Re: [time-nuts] high rev isolation amps

I forgot to add, after the step attenuators at the output of the combiner, 
there is a 10 dB pad right at the back of the radio to provide a better return 
loss to the combiner. 

Rob, NC0B

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 26, 2016, at 6:34 PM, "Rob Sherwood."  wrote:
> 
> I use two ZHL-32A buffer amps, the appropriate Mini-Circuits LPFs, and 20 dB 
> pads into a 4-way Mini-Circuits combiner. I believe it is ports 2&3 that have 
> even better isolation than a 2-way combiner.  These buffer amps run on 24 
> volts, where the ZFL-500LN doesn't have the output capability to test 100+ dB 
> radios.  Some tests need a third signal source and complimentary buffer amp 
> and associated items. 
> 
> To test a K3S or an IC-7851, it also requires HP 8642A generators that have 
> lower phase noise than these top of the line rigs.  Even my 8662A generators 
> are not good enough, though they were 5 years ago.  Now add the Flex 6700 and 
> the ANAN-200D, the RMDR performance of a hand full of rigs is amazing. 
> 
> Unfortunately transmitter performance has not kept pace with receiver 
> improvement. 
> 
> It will be interesting to test the new IC-7300 DSR with knobs (and lots of 
> menus). 
> 
> Rob
> NC0B
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Mar 26, 2016, at 6:00 PM, "jimlux"  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 3/26/16 2:30 PM, Rob Sherwood. wrote:
>>> You cannot add the directivity and gain.  Doesn't work that way.  Rob, NC0B.
>> 
>> Yeah, I kind of figured that after getting the S parameters from 
>> minicircuits.
>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
 On Mar 26, 2016, at 2:00 PM, "jimlux"  wrote:

 Consulting the time-nuts hive mind here..

 I'm looking for off the shelf connectorized amplifiers with very good 
 reverse isolation for doing things like intermod measurements (e.g. 2 
 signal generators followed by amps/pads into a combiner) and phase noise 
 measurements for a digital receiver.

 1-100 MHz kind of frequency range..

 I've used ZFL-500LN (30dB gain, 27 dB directivity in the data sheet, which 
 I interpret as 57dB reverse) , ZX60-4016 (really more of a microwave amp, 
 and not so hot reverse wise.. 25 dB)

 I'm not particularly cost constrained, so a higher power amp (which also 
 reduces distortion products from the amp) followed by pads is always an 
 alternative.
 ___
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>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] high rev isolation amps


On 3/26/16 3:25 PM, Bruce Griffiths wrote:

On Saturday, March 26, 2016 09:30:30 PM Rob Sherwood. wrote:

You cannot add the directivity and gain.  Doesn't work that way.  Rob, NC0B.

Sent from my iPad

Minicircuits would disagree with that and its their amplifier.

Bruce




Well, it's a bit inconsistent between gain, directivity and S parameters.

at 5.4 MHz the ZFL-500LN has the following S parameters @ 15 V in the 
.s2p file (there's two units' measurements in the files)


S11 -35.5, -32.1
S21  29.7,  29.5
S12 -47.5,- 47.2
S22 -39.5, -28.3

On the other hand, the data sheet "typical data" says: at 5.4MHz 27.9 dB 
gain, 26.5 dB directivity, which Minicircuits defines as isolation-gain 
 (implying isolation is 54.4)

http://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/ZFL-500LN.pdf

Maybe there's some sort of assumption about source/load impedance (e.g. 
not necessarily perfect 50 ohms)






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Re: [time-nuts] high rev isolation amps

2016-03-26 Thread John Miles


> I'm looking for off the shelf connectorized amplifiers with very good
> reverse isolation for doing things like intermod measurements (e.g. 2
> signal generators followed by amps/pads into a combiner) and phase noise
> measurements for a digital receiver.
> 
> 1-100 MHz kind of frequency range..
> 
> I've used ZFL-500LN (30dB gain, 27 dB directivity in the data sheet,
> which I interpret as 57dB reverse) , ZX60-4016 (really more of a
> microwave amp, and not so hot reverse wise.. 25 dB)
> 
> I'm not particularly cost constrained, so a higher power amp (which also
> reduces distortion products from the amp) followed by pads is always an
> alternative.

Lots of options at http://www.spectradynamics.com, also see the LNDA series at 
http://www.wenzel.com.  

-- john, KE5FX
Miles Design LLC

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Re: [time-nuts] high rev isolation amps


On 3/26/16 4:14 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:

Nothing has come to my attention in the last
35 years that is superior for buffer amplifiers
to the simple cascade of grounded base transistors
as described by numerous NBS/NIST papers.
The chain usually starts with a common emitter
(with emitter degeneration resistor), which
is an even older NBS classic.

I realize you asked for an OTS connectorized
version.  Unfortunately, I have never seen
one of these offered in said 35 years.


Yeah, i've spent a while looking through various catalogs..

Odd that nobody sells one: sure, it's probably a limited market, but 
there's plenty of companies that sell limited market widgets (e.g. I'm 
surprised Wenzel doesn't sell one.. in the online catalog info, they 
don't even give S12 data of any kind)





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Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals

2016-03-26 Thread Alex Pummer


I am perhaps to late now,I found the e-mail recently:
"

sockets can be an issue. With wire leads, you are asking for trouble.

Functionally, there is little there is little difference between a glass


package crystal


and a metal package. About the only real one is the obvious - one has a metal


shield

you can (but sometimes don’t)  ground.

Bob


"


the glass packed ones will have much better vacuum, therefore higher Q
I still have some KVG glass envelope crystals [116MHz overtone] from the 
60 -ties

73
KJ6UHN
Alex

On 2/2/2016 2:37 PM, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

I think you will find that the Russian versions were used without ovens for a 
long time. In the US, the only
use for the glass packages past the mid 1960’s was in ovens.

Bob



On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:43 PM, iovane--- via time-nuts  wrote:

I think that these crystals were designed to be placed in an oven, which worked
as a shield too. I have a similar crystal made by Racal in the 60's, and in my
case it is fitted with the classic octal tube-type plug. It was housed (still
is) in a heavy massive shimmering chrome-plated cylindrical brass enclosure, a
beauty to see, It was the timebase of a tube-type synthesizer with lots of
tubes. Themperature control was achieved by means of a mercury thermometer in
which mercury actuated a contact when reaching a wire crossing the capillary
tube.

Antonio I8IOV


Da: Bob Camp 
Data: 02/02/2016 13.15
A: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
Ogg: Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals

Hi

Since the 25 MHz crystal has already been soldered into a circuit, putting it

in a

socket is probably not a real good idea. It’s also a leaded part. Even with

fat pins

sockets can be an issue. With wire leads, you are asking for trouble.

Functionally, there is little there is little difference between a glass

package crystal

and a metal package. About the only real one is the obvious - one has a metal

shield

you can (but sometimes don’t)  ground.

Bob



On Feb 1, 2016, at 9:58 PM, Daniel Watson  wrote:

Hi,

I purchased a pair of interesting glass envelope crystals for a project.
Here are some pictures:

http://syncchannel.blogspot.com/2016/02/glass-envelope-quartz-crystals.html

Does anyone have an idea about what mount/socket I should buy for these? I
read a previous thread on the list about Bliley crystals using a B7G mount,
but I'm not sure if that type might work here.

Also, when building up a circuit to make these oscillate, are there any
specific differences about crystals in this package that I should keep in
mind?


Thanks much,

Dan W.


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-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7497 / Virus Database: 4545/11889 - Release Date: 03/26/16


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Re: [time-nuts] Owner's Manual and advice for Austron 2110 Disciplined Frequency Standard

Hi

It’s probably bringing out both sides of the varicap to accomplish the same 
sort of thing. 

Bob

> On Mar 26, 2016, at 5:22 PM, Hal Murray  wrote:
> 
>> The one I have has both EFC+ and EFC- pins.
> 
> Is that a differential input so you don't have to worry about ground offset 
> shift when the oven current changes?
> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Owner's Manual and advice for Austron 2110 Disciplined Frequency Standard

2016-03-26 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp


In message <20160326212201.46e79406...@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net>, Hal Mu
rray writes:
>> The one I have has both EFC+ and EFC- pins.
>
>Is that a differential input so you don't have to worry about ground offset 
>shift when the oven current changes?

I have no idea...

It's one I bought cheap and it's not particularly good, so I have not
spent a lot of time on it.

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[time-nuts] HP 58501A reference clocks

2016-03-26 Thread Steve D

Hi group,

I recently purchased an HP 58XXXA or 58501A precision reference clock unit.
The unit is clearly a prototype made by HP for Ericsson GE. The front label
actually says 58XXXA. The serial number of the unit is EGE001P. It has a
GPS antenna in and 10 MHz, 19.2 MHz, 9600 kHz and a 600/300/100 Hz outputs.
Inside is has a main board with part # 58501-60001, a 10 MHz OCXO part #
05071-60219, a Motorola GPS part # 84D43215M02, a hand built board which
generates (likely phase locked) 19.2 MHz from the 10 MHz, a hand built
board to hold the three front mounted LED's and a third party power supply.

At power up the front panel power LED comes on and a second later the GPS
and ALARM LED's toggle on/off in sequence. The main board LED's also all
toggle and then one of them flashes once per second. I can communicate with
the unit via SCPI using 9600/8/N/1 RS232 data. I was able to verify the
GPS does receive a signal as the time is correct and the date updates but
is 1024 weeks behind(GPS rollover bug). However the "GPS LOCK" and "ALARM"
LED's never do anything. The 10 MHz out the back does travel between
9,999,997 and 10,000,003 Hz which follows the EFC test point voltage that
goes between -5 and +5 volts. I have found very few SCPI commands that
work. At this point they are:

*IDN? which gives: HEWLETT-PACKARD,58501A,0,Fiji_EGE
*CLS
*TST? which gives 1 (possibly indicating a rom error)
PTIME:DATE?
PTIME:TIME?
SYSTEM:ERROR?

I have pulled the four firmware roms and reseated them as well as the
Xilinx chip, it made no difference. So the question is, did it ever work or
has something failed?

I find it to be a fascinating piece of equipment and think the hand built
boards are super cool to see, but lets face it, it would be more fun if it
worked.

I have posted pictures and a firmware dump on the eevblog forum here:
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/prototype-hpagilent-gps-based-refererence-clocks-generator/

I'm coming to this group to see if anyone has any ideas or knowledge of the
unit.

thank you!

Steve VE7FM
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Re: [time-nuts] high rev isolation amps

2016-03-26 Thread Bruce Griffiths

On Saturday, March 26, 2016 10:57:01 AM jimlux wrote:
> Consulting the time-nuts hive mind here..
> 
> I'm looking for off the shelf connectorized amplifiers with very good
> reverse isolation for doing things like intermod measurements (e.g. 2
> signal generators followed by amps/pads into a combiner) and phase noise
> measurements for a digital receiver.
> 
> 1-100 MHz kind of frequency range..
> 
> I've used ZFL-500LN (30dB gain, 27 dB directivity in the data sheet,
> which I interpret as 57dB reverse) , ZX60-4016 (really more of a
> microwave amp, and not so hot reverse wise.. 25 dB)
> 
> I'm not particularly cost constrained, so a higher power amp (which also
> reduces distortion products from the amp) followed by pads is always an
> alternative.
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These seem to be somewhat scarce.
One option is to add a unity gain high reverse isolation amplifier after your 
favourite low noise RF amp.
Even these are scarce so constructing one may be your only option.improve 
distortion.
A direct coupled series chain of CB stages should suffice.
Either a push-pull setup or applying feedback around the first stage emitter 
will input  
Packaging and cable leakage may limit the achievable reverse isolation to a 
bit below 120dB.

Bruce
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Re: [time-nuts] high rev isolation amps

2016-03-26 Thread Richard (Rick) Karlquist


Nothing has come to my attention in the last
35 years that is superior for buffer amplifiers
to the simple cascade of grounded base transistors
as described by numerous NBS/NIST papers.
The chain usually starts with a common emitter
(with emitter degeneration resistor), which
is an even older NBS classic.

I realize you asked for an OTS connectorized
version.  Unfortunately, I have never seen
one of these offered in said 35 years.
When I worked for Agilent, there was an IC
version made by a captive fab.  It was
never spun off as a commericial part via
the semiconductor division (which is now
Avago).

In the early 1980's, I designed a crystal
oscillator and buffer amplifier for the
HP 10816 rudibium standard.  The crystal
was a 10811 crystal and used the Colpitts
oscillator from the 10811.  The Colpitts
in the 10811 fed a grounded base amplifier
via the crystal.  In the 10816, I used a
cascade of 3 GB amplifiers.  This worked
better than the original 10811 buffer amplifier.

Rick

On 3/26/2016 10:57 AM, jimlux wrote:

Consulting the time-nuts hive mind here..

I'm looking for off the shelf connectorized amplifiers with very good
reverse isolation for doing things like intermod measurements (e.g. 2
signal generators followed by amps/pads into a combiner) and phase noise
measurements for a digital receiver.

1-100 MHz kind of frequency range..

I've used ZFL-500LN (30dB gain, 27 dB directivity in the data sheet,
which I interpret as 57dB reverse) , ZX60-4016 (really more of a
microwave amp, and not so hot reverse wise.. 25 dB)

I'm not particularly cost constrained, so a higher power amp (which also
reduces distortion products from the amp) followed by pads is always an
alternative.
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Re: [time-nuts] high rev isolation amps

2016-03-26 Thread Bruce Griffiths

On Saturday, March 26, 2016 09:30:30 PM Rob Sherwood. wrote:
> You cannot add the directivity and gain.  Doesn't work that way.  Rob, NC0B.
> 
> Sent from my iPad
Minicircuits would disagree with that and its their amplifier.

Bruce
> 
> > On Mar 26, 2016, at 2:00 PM, "jimlux"  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Consulting the time-nuts hive mind here..
> > 
> > I'm looking for off the shelf connectorized amplifiers with very good
> > reverse isolation for doing things like intermod measurements (e.g. 2
> > signal generators followed by amps/pads into a combiner) and phase noise
> > measurements for a digital receiver.
> > 
> > 1-100 MHz kind of frequency range..
> > 
> > I've used ZFL-500LN (30dB gain, 27 dB directivity in the data sheet, which
> > I interpret as 57dB reverse) , ZX60-4016 (really more of a microwave amp,
> > and not so hot reverse wise.. 25 dB)
> > 
> > I'm not particularly cost constrained, so a higher power amp (which also
> > reduces distortion products from the amp) followed by pads is always an
> > alternative. ___
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> > 
> > 
> > 
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Re: [time-nuts] high rev isolation amps


On 3/26/16 2:30 PM, Rob Sherwood. wrote:

You cannot add the directivity and gain.  Doesn't work that way.  Rob, NC0B.



Yeah, I kind of figured that after getting the S parameters from 
minicircuits.



Sent from my iPad


On Mar 26, 2016, at 2:00 PM, "jimlux"  wrote:



Consulting the time-nuts hive mind here..

I'm looking for off the shelf connectorized amplifiers with very good reverse 
isolation for doing things like intermod measurements (e.g. 2 signal generators 
followed by amps/pads into a combiner) and phase noise measurements for a 
digital receiver.

1-100 MHz kind of frequency range..

I've used ZFL-500LN (30dB gain, 27 dB directivity in the data sheet, which I 
interpret as 57dB reverse) , ZX60-4016 (really more of a microwave amp, and not 
so hot reverse wise.. 25 dB)

I'm not particularly cost constrained, so a higher power amp (which also 
reduces distortion products from the amp) followed by pads is always an 
alternative.
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Re: [time-nuts] Owner's Manual and advice for Austron 2110 Disciplined Frequency Standard

2016-03-26 Thread Hal Murray

> The one I have has both EFC+ and EFC- pins.

Is that a differential input so you don't have to worry about ground offset 
shift when the oven current changes?


-- 
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Re: [time-nuts] high rev isolation amps

You cannot add the directivity and gain.  Doesn't work that way.  Rob, NC0B. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 26, 2016, at 2:00 PM, "jimlux"  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Consulting the time-nuts hive mind here..
> 
> I'm looking for off the shelf connectorized amplifiers with very good reverse 
> isolation for doing things like intermod measurements (e.g. 2 signal 
> generators followed by amps/pads into a combiner) and phase noise 
> measurements for a digital receiver.
> 
> 1-100 MHz kind of frequency range..
> 
> I've used ZFL-500LN (30dB gain, 27 dB directivity in the data sheet, which I 
> interpret as 57dB reverse) , ZX60-4016 (really more of a microwave amp, and 
> not so hot reverse wise.. 25 dB)
> 
> I'm not particularly cost constrained, so a higher power amp (which also 
> reduces distortion products from the amp) followed by pads is always an 
> alternative.
> ___
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> and follow the instructions there.
> 
> 
> 
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[time-nuts] high rev isolation amps


Consulting the time-nuts hive mind here..

I'm looking for off the shelf connectorized amplifiers with very good 
reverse isolation for doing things like intermod measurements (e.g. 2 
signal generators followed by amps/pads into a combiner) and phase noise 
measurements for a digital receiver.


1-100 MHz kind of frequency range..

I've used ZFL-500LN (30dB gain, 27 dB directivity in the data sheet, 
which I interpret as 57dB reverse) , ZX60-4016 (really more of a 
microwave amp, and not so hot reverse wise.. 25 dB)


I'm not particularly cost constrained, so a higher power amp (which also 
reduces distortion products from the amp) followed by pads is always an 
alternative.

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Re: [time-nuts] Owner's Manual and advice for Austron 2110 Disciplined Frequency Standard

2016-03-26 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp


In message <599355eb-013e-4730-b41f-dd8606b2e...@n1k.org>, Bob Camp writes:

>The 1150 OCXO has an EFC pin on it.

The one I have has both EFC+ and EFC- pins.

-- 
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Re: [time-nuts] Owner's Manual and advice for Austron 2110 Disciplined Frequency Standard