Re: [time-nuts] Austron 2010B (disciplined OCXO) square wave conversion

[Charles Steinmetz]

Ruslan wrote:


Only later did I realize that for some bizarre reason,
all of the outputs are square wave, not sinusoidal!

I'd rather use something prebuilt than building my
own converter


A simple Tee network lowpass filter will do the job -- see the attached 
schematic (NOTE: this circuit is designed for 10MHz -- you would need to 
scale it for 5MHz and 1MHz).  If the input is from 5v CMOS logic (0v 
low, 5v high) that will put out at least +/- 30mA and you use a 56 ohm 
input resistor, the circuit will deliver a sine wave output of ~1v RMS 
(= +13dBm) into a 50 ohm load, which is a common output level for 
frequency references.


Mini-Circuits sells a 5MHz LP filter with BNC connectors (BLP-5+), but 
it does not include the input resistor or the DC blocking capacitor 
shown in the attached schematic -- so you would need to add those 
yourself (again, I'm assuming that the Austron output is a DC-coupled, 
0-to-5v square wave).  Mini-Circuits does not list a 1MHz filter, and 
their 1.9MHz filter is not suitable because it wouldn't provide 
sufficient attenuation of the 3rd harmonic (3MHz).


You would put the filter between the Austron output and the 50 ohm input 
of a distribution amplifier.


Best regards,

Charles


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Re: [time-nuts] Oscillator Phase Noise: A 50-Year Review

[KA2WEU--- via time-nuts]

This may be interesting :
 
Y. Gruson, V. Giordano, U. L. Rohde, and E. Rubiola, “On a Conceptual Error 
 in Cross Spectrum PM
Noise Measurements,” Proc. European Frequency and Time  Forum p. ***–***, 
York, United Kingdom,
4–7 April 2016. Abstract no.  1056,
 
73 de Ulrich 
 

xx
 
 
In a message dated 8/6/2016 9:02:43 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
time-nuts@febo.com writes:

Good  morning,

yes I saw the reference  but he did not point out what it  was or  
function, 
This paper is more about people and events and very  little since  ...

Ulrich 


In a message dated  8/6/2016 2:26:54 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,   
michaeljwout...@gmail.com writes:

On Sat,  Aug 6, 2016 at 9:34  AM, KA2WEU--- via time-nuts
   wrote:

> Leeson produced a somewhat random selection of papers  ,  omitting 
important
> things like the sapphire based best in  the word .  This was not even
> referenced  .

The  reference [145] at the  end of the sentence that mentions  sapphire
oscillators also discusses a  hybrid photonic-microwave  oscillator that
incorporates a room-temperature  sapphire oscillator  so I think he
tried to cover both subjects with that  single  reference.

The paper has a misleading title. It suggests that it   is a history of
the last 50 years, when it is about events roughly 50  years  ago. The
abstract makes this clear though. So I didn't really  expect to  read
much about developments past   1970.

Cheers
Michael


On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:34  AM,  KA2WEU--- via time-nuts
 wrote:
>  Some of  the cited references are poor, modern non-linear mathematic  is 
 
kind
>  of omitted . After all the oscillator   phase noise  speculation, I would
> have really liked to see at  last a reference  about the most modern
> measurements   techniques and it validation.  How do you calibrate a 
phase 
noise  test
> system.
>
> Leeson  produced a somewhat random  selection of papers , omitting 
important
>  things like the  sapphire based best in the word . This was not even
>   referenced  .
>
> I think he is really out of it   .
>
> 73 de N1UL
>
>
>
> In a  message  dated 8/5/2016 7:11:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>  j...@miles.io  writes:
>
>>
>> Very selected and  incomplete  references and the equallyimportant
>>  question
>> of measurements strangely  not   covered
>>
>> 73 de N 1   UL
>>
>
>  I suppose he could  write an  equally-lengthy article on measurements  
alone,
> but leaving  out the  post-1970s history entirely was a  little
>  disappointing.  It was strange  to hit "ctrl-f Rohde"  and see  only one 
reference in the
> bibliography.   Same for   "Hewlett."  "Rubiola" brings up one hit (but no
> citations)   and  "Stein" brings up none at all.
>
> -- john,   KE5FX
> Miles Design  LLC
>
>
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>   https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna selection - lightning

[Glenn Little WB4UIV]

The latest that I can find is 1987.
If you understand the theory and practice, you do not have to update 
your work often.
It is the works that are updated every few months that you have to worry 
about. The did not get it right the first time.


This is still an active military document.

73
Glenn
WB4UIV

On 8/6/2016 1:13 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

If you are looking for info in lightening.  University of Florida has a
huge collection and also points to many other places on the web.   They
actually do testing there, lightening occurs so reliably almost every day
in summer.  Their test tower gets many hits
http://www.lightning.ece.ufl.edu

But really, for practical purposes Ben Franklin got it pretty close to
right.  Give the lightening a good low impedance path to ground.

On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 8:00 AM, Clay Autery  wrote:


Is the 1987 version the latest issue available for free?

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 8/6/2016 8:46 AM, Glenn Little WB4UIV wrote:

Cone of protection is addressed.
Volume 1 is theory, volume 2 is application.
The military requires 1/0 cable exterior to the building, commercial
practice is #2AWG.
Ground rod spacing is address.

Overall a very good reference based on practical experience and backed
with theory.

73
Glenn
WB4UIV


On 8/6/2016 1:19 AM, Bill Hawkins wrote:

Hi Glenn,

Your advice is excellent.

Seems like every time we have a lightning discussion there is no
distinction between an EMP and a direct hit.

I started work in 1960 at a blasting cap plant in upstate New York. The
powder magazines were protected by tall masts according to the "cone of
protection" theory. The angle of the cone varied between 45 and 60
degrees. The earth ground resistance of the mast was measured by a
hand-cranked device that looked like a megger but read earth resistance
to less than a tenth of an ohm. Had the lightning but never lost a
magazine.

You say MIL-HDBK-419 covers EMP. Does it also cover cone of protection
for direct hits?

I was fascinated by the idea that a simple capacitor discharge into an
inductor could be greatly enhanced by reducing the diameter of the
inductor with a conventional explosive, described in one of Stephen
Coonts' books, if my failing memory recalls correctly. And so I learned
what I could about EMP. Never built anything, just interesting behavior.

Best regards,
Bill Hawkins


-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Glenn
Little WB4UIV
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2016 9:47 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts]GPS antenna selection - lightning

A very good reference for EMP protection is MIL-HDBK-419.
This is downloadable for a number of web sources.
It is about 600 pages and is in two volumes.
This discusses a number of different sources of EMP such as nuclear and
lightning.
A lot is for protection of military industrial complexes, but, there is
a lot that pertains to us.

I worked for a military complex that assembled nuclear missiles.
The site was built to this handbook specs.
We had no EMP related damage at the site.

Number one rule, bond all grounds together. If something on your
property takes a hit, you want everything on your property to elevate to
the same level and the same rate.
If you have multiple, non bonded grounds, there is a different reference
for each ground. This is a major source for disaster.

I spent seven years in lightning mitigation. I was told by professionals
that I was wrong. The third time that their tower was struck, destroying
all of the lights and attached equipment, they followed my
recommendations. That was ten years ago. The three hits were within four
months of each other. The site has been free of destructive hits since
then.

73
Glenn
WB4UIV








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--
---
Glenn LittleARRL Technical Specialist   QCWA  LM 28417
Amateur Callsign:  WB4UIVwb4...@arrl.netAMSAT LM 2178
QTH:  Goose Creek, SC USA (EM92xx)  USSVI LM   NRA LM   SBE ARRL TAPR
"It is not the class of license that the Amateur holds but the class
of the Amateur that holds the license"
---
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna selection - lightning

[Chris Albertson]

If you are looking for info in lightening.  University of Florida has a
huge collection and also points to many other places on the web.   They
actually do testing there, lightening occurs so reliably almost every day
in summer.  Their test tower gets many hits
http://www.lightning.ece.ufl.edu

But really, for practical purposes Ben Franklin got it pretty close to
right.  Give the lightening a good low impedance path to ground.

On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 8:00 AM, Clay Autery  wrote:

> Is the 1987 version the latest issue available for free?
>
> __
> Clay Autery, KY5G
> MONTAC Enterprises
> (318) 518-1389
>
> On 8/6/2016 8:46 AM, Glenn Little WB4UIV wrote:
> > Cone of protection is addressed.
> > Volume 1 is theory, volume 2 is application.
> > The military requires 1/0 cable exterior to the building, commercial
> > practice is #2AWG.
> > Ground rod spacing is address.
> >
> > Overall a very good reference based on practical experience and backed
> > with theory.
> >
> > 73
> > Glenn
> > WB4UIV
> >
> >
> > On 8/6/2016 1:19 AM, Bill Hawkins wrote:
> >> Hi Glenn,
> >>
> >> Your advice is excellent.
> >>
> >> Seems like every time we have a lightning discussion there is no
> >> distinction between an EMP and a direct hit.
> >>
> >> I started work in 1960 at a blasting cap plant in upstate New York. The
> >> powder magazines were protected by tall masts according to the "cone of
> >> protection" theory. The angle of the cone varied between 45 and 60
> >> degrees. The earth ground resistance of the mast was measured by a
> >> hand-cranked device that looked like a megger but read earth resistance
> >> to less than a tenth of an ohm. Had the lightning but never lost a
> >> magazine.
> >>
> >> You say MIL-HDBK-419 covers EMP. Does it also cover cone of protection
> >> for direct hits?
> >>
> >> I was fascinated by the idea that a simple capacitor discharge into an
> >> inductor could be greatly enhanced by reducing the diameter of the
> >> inductor with a conventional explosive, described in one of Stephen
> >> Coonts' books, if my failing memory recalls correctly. And so I learned
> >> what I could about EMP. Never built anything, just interesting behavior.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> Bill Hawkins
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Glenn
> >> Little WB4UIV
> >> Sent: Friday, August 05, 2016 9:47 PM
> >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts]GPS antenna selection - lightning
> >>
> >> A very good reference for EMP protection is MIL-HDBK-419.
> >> This is downloadable for a number of web sources.
> >> It is about 600 pages and is in two volumes.
> >> This discusses a number of different sources of EMP such as nuclear and
> >> lightning.
> >> A lot is for protection of military industrial complexes, but, there is
> >> a lot that pertains to us.
> >>
> >> I worked for a military complex that assembled nuclear missiles.
> >> The site was built to this handbook specs.
> >> We had no EMP related damage at the site.
> >>
> >> Number one rule, bond all grounds together. If something on your
> >> property takes a hit, you want everything on your property to elevate to
> >> the same level and the same rate.
> >> If you have multiple, non bonded grounds, there is a different reference
> >> for each ground. This is a major source for disaster.
> >>
> >> I spent seven years in lightning mitigation. I was told by professionals
> >> that I was wrong. The third time that their tower was struck, destroying
> >> all of the lights and attached equipment, they followed my
> >> recommendations. That was ten years ago. The three hits were within four
> >> months of each other. The site has been free of destructive hits since
> >> then.
> >>
> >> 73
> >> Glenn
> >> WB4UIV
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>



-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna selection - lightning

[Clay Autery]

Is the 1987 version the latest issue available for free?

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 8/6/2016 8:46 AM, Glenn Little WB4UIV wrote:
> Cone of protection is addressed.
> Volume 1 is theory, volume 2 is application.
> The military requires 1/0 cable exterior to the building, commercial
> practice is #2AWG.
> Ground rod spacing is address.
>
> Overall a very good reference based on practical experience and backed
> with theory.
>
> 73
> Glenn
> WB4UIV
>
>
> On 8/6/2016 1:19 AM, Bill Hawkins wrote:
>> Hi Glenn,
>>
>> Your advice is excellent.
>>
>> Seems like every time we have a lightning discussion there is no
>> distinction between an EMP and a direct hit.
>>
>> I started work in 1960 at a blasting cap plant in upstate New York. The
>> powder magazines were protected by tall masts according to the "cone of
>> protection" theory. The angle of the cone varied between 45 and 60
>> degrees. The earth ground resistance of the mast was measured by a
>> hand-cranked device that looked like a megger but read earth resistance
>> to less than a tenth of an ohm. Had the lightning but never lost a
>> magazine.
>>
>> You say MIL-HDBK-419 covers EMP. Does it also cover cone of protection
>> for direct hits?
>>
>> I was fascinated by the idea that a simple capacitor discharge into an
>> inductor could be greatly enhanced by reducing the diameter of the
>> inductor with a conventional explosive, described in one of Stephen
>> Coonts' books, if my failing memory recalls correctly. And so I learned
>> what I could about EMP. Never built anything, just interesting behavior.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Bill Hawkins
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Glenn
>> Little WB4UIV
>> Sent: Friday, August 05, 2016 9:47 PM
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts]GPS antenna selection - lightning
>>
>> A very good reference for EMP protection is MIL-HDBK-419.
>> This is downloadable for a number of web sources.
>> It is about 600 pages and is in two volumes.
>> This discusses a number of different sources of EMP such as nuclear and
>> lightning.
>> A lot is for protection of military industrial complexes, but, there is
>> a lot that pertains to us.
>>
>> I worked for a military complex that assembled nuclear missiles.
>> The site was built to this handbook specs.
>> We had no EMP related damage at the site.
>>
>> Number one rule, bond all grounds together. If something on your
>> property takes a hit, you want everything on your property to elevate to
>> the same level and the same rate.
>> If you have multiple, non bonded grounds, there is a different reference
>> for each ground. This is a major source for disaster.
>>
>> I spent seven years in lightning mitigation. I was told by professionals
>> that I was wrong. The third time that their tower was struck, destroying
>> all of the lights and attached equipment, they followed my
>> recommendations. That was ten years ago. The three hits were within four
>> months of each other. The site has been free of destructive hits since
>> then.
>>
>> 73
>> Glenn
>> WB4UIV
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

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Re: [time-nuts] Looking to find an antenna for a TrueTime XL-DC

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Add in variables like supply voltage, tuning approach, signal levels, and gain 
….

There are a lot of things you need to match up to get a downconverter going 
with an old style GPS. Once you do, you then likely have a unit that has GPS
epoch roll over issues. It may have other firmware quirks as well. 

None of that says “don’t do it”. It simply is a caution that this is a labor of 
love rather
than one getting a useful piece of gear up and going. You may ultimately have 
something
useful, the odds are it will have bugs …

Bob


> On Aug 6, 2016, at 9:44 AM, paul swed  wrote:
> 
> Completely agree with the comment on working with other receivers.
> The down converters had to match the IF and there were at that time at
> least 2 IF frequencies 75 and 34 MHz as I recall.
> But that said no idea what they may cost and is it worth the gamble.
> Or reach out to meinberg and ask.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
> 
> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 4:19 AM, Martin Burnicki <
> martin.burni...@burnicki.net> wrote:
> 
>> Alexander Pummer wrote:
>>> Meinberg https://www.meinbergglobal.com/ makes complete down and up
>>> converter for GPS remote antennas
>> 
>> That's true, but they have been designed for the frontend assembled in
>> Meinberg GPS receivers. I doubt they work with Truetime devices.
>> 
>> Martin (working @Meinberg)
>> 
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Looking to find an antenna for a TrueTime XL-DC

[paul swed]

Completely agree with the comment on working with other receivers.
The down converters had to match the IF and there were at that time at
least 2 IF frequencies 75 and 34 MHz as I recall.
But that said no idea what they may cost and is it worth the gamble.
Or reach out to meinberg and ask.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 4:19 AM, Martin Burnicki <
martin.burni...@burnicki.net> wrote:

> Alexander Pummer wrote:
> > Meinberg https://www.meinbergglobal.com/ makes complete down and up
> > converter for GPS remote antennas
>
> That's true, but they have been designed for the frontend assembled in
> Meinberg GPS receivers. I doubt they work with Truetime devices.
>
> Martin (working @Meinberg)
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna selection - lightning

[Glenn Little WB4UIV]

Cone of protection is addressed.
Volume 1 is theory, volume 2 is application.
The military requires 1/0 cable exterior to the building, commercial 
practice is #2AWG.

Ground rod spacing is address.

Overall a very good reference based on practical experience and backed 
with theory.


73
Glenn
WB4UIV


On 8/6/2016 1:19 AM, Bill Hawkins wrote:

Hi Glenn,

Your advice is excellent.

Seems like every time we have a lightning discussion there is no
distinction between an EMP and a direct hit.

I started work in 1960 at a blasting cap plant in upstate New York. The
powder magazines were protected by tall masts according to the "cone of
protection" theory. The angle of the cone varied between 45 and 60
degrees. The earth ground resistance of the mast was measured by a
hand-cranked device that looked like a megger but read earth resistance
to less than a tenth of an ohm. Had the lightning but never lost a
magazine.

You say MIL-HDBK-419 covers EMP. Does it also cover cone of protection
for direct hits?

I was fascinated by the idea that a simple capacitor discharge into an
inductor could be greatly enhanced by reducing the diameter of the
inductor with a conventional explosive, described in one of Stephen
Coonts' books, if my failing memory recalls correctly. And so I learned
what I could about EMP. Never built anything, just interesting behavior.

Best regards,
Bill Hawkins


-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Glenn
Little WB4UIV
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2016 9:47 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts]GPS antenna selection - lightning

A very good reference for EMP protection is MIL-HDBK-419.
This is downloadable for a number of web sources.
It is about 600 pages and is in two volumes.
This discusses a number of different sources of EMP such as nuclear and
lightning.
A lot is for protection of military industrial complexes, but, there is
a lot that pertains to us.

I worked for a military complex that assembled nuclear missiles.
The site was built to this handbook specs.
We had no EMP related damage at the site.

Number one rule, bond all grounds together. If something on your
property takes a hit, you want everything on your property to elevate to
the same level and the same rate.
If you have multiple, non bonded grounds, there is a different reference
for each ground. This is a major source for disaster.

I spent seven years in lightning mitigation. I was told by professionals
that I was wrong. The third time that their tower was struck, destroying
all of the lights and attached equipment, they followed my
recommendations. That was ten years ago. The three hits were within four
months of each other. The site has been free of destructive hits since
then.

73
Glenn
WB4UIV






--
---
Glenn LittleARRL Technical Specialist   QCWA  LM 28417
Amateur Callsign:  WB4UIVwb4...@arrl.netAMSAT LM 2178
QTH:  Goose Creek, SC USA (EM92xx)  USSVI LM   NRA LM   SBE ARRL TAPR
"It is not the class of license that the Amateur holds but the class
of the Amateur that holds the license"
---
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Re: [time-nuts] Oscillator Phase Noise: A 50-Year Review

[KA2WEU--- via time-nuts]

Good morning,
 
yes I saw the reference  but he did not point out what it was or  function, 
This paper is more about people and events and very little since  ...
 
Ulrich 
 
 
In a message dated 8/6/2016 2:26:54 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
michaeljwout...@gmail.com writes:

On Sat,  Aug 6, 2016 at 9:34 AM, KA2WEU--- via time-nuts
  wrote:

> Leeson produced a somewhat random selection of papers ,  omitting 
important
> things like the sapphire based best in the word .  This was not even
> referenced  .

The reference [145] at the  end of the sentence that mentions sapphire
oscillators also discusses a  hybrid photonic-microwave oscillator that
incorporates a room-temperature  sapphire oscillator so I think he
tried to cover both subjects with that  single reference.

The paper has a misleading title. It suggests that it  is a history of
the last 50 years, when it is about events roughly 50 years  ago. The
abstract makes this clear though. So I didn't really expect to  read
much about developments past  1970.

Cheers
Michael


On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:34 AM,  KA2WEU--- via time-nuts
 wrote:
> Some of  the cited references are poor, modern non-linear mathematic is  
kind
>  of omitted . After all the oscillator  phase noise  speculation, I would
> have really liked to see at last a reference  about the most modern
> measurements  techniques and it validation.  How do you calibrate a phase 
noise test
> system.
>
> Leeson  produced a somewhat random selection of papers , omitting 
important
>  things like the sapphire based best in the word . This was not even
>  referenced  .
>
> I think he is really out of it  .
>
> 73 de N1UL
>
>
>
> In a message  dated 8/5/2016 7:11:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> j...@miles.io  writes:
>
>>
>> Very selected and incomplete  references and the equally   important
>>  question
>> of measurements strangely not   covered
>>
>> 73 de N 1  UL
>>
>
>  I suppose he could  write an equally-lengthy article on measurements  
alone,
> but leaving out the  post-1970s history entirely was a  little
> disappointing.  It was strange  to hit "ctrl-f Rohde"  and see only one 
reference in the
> bibliography.   Same for  "Hewlett."  "Rubiola" brings up one hit (but no
> citations)  and  "Stein" brings up none at all.
>
> -- john,  KE5FX
> Miles Design  LLC
>
>
>  ___
> time-nuts   mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
>  https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow  the  instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Oscillator Phase Noise: A 50-Year Review

[KA2WEU--- via time-nuts]

The story is quite simple, life is never fair and therefore some use more  
elbow then others ,
 
Happy weekend, 73 de Ulrich N1UL
 
 
In a message dated 8/6/2016 1:00:38 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
rich...@karlquist.com writes:



On 8/5/2016 12:47 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote:
> Here's a  new article, on IEEE's site (and this one's free):
>
> "Oscillator  Phase Noise: A 50-Year Review", by David B. Leeson
>  http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?arnumber=7464875
>

It  has always irked me that no credit was given to Edson's
pioneering 1953  book "Vacuum tube oscillators" in Leeson's papers
and I see that the  omission continues in the latest paper.  You can see
from the  following reference that Edson was the true pioneer in  this
field:

http://garfield.library.upenn.edu/classics1983/A1983QV0081.pdf

He  actually had the basic idea in 1934.  He is the proverbial
"unsung  hero".

Rick
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Re: [time-nuts] Oscillator Phase Noise: A 50-Year Review

[KA2WEU--- via time-nuts]

Yes, a good book ! Ulrich 
 
 
In a message dated 8/6/2016 7:00:41 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
csteinm...@yandex.com writes:

Rick  wrote:

> It has always irked me that no credit was given to  Edson
> He is the proverbial "unsung hero"

Hardly unsung.   Harvard PhD Sigma Xi as a Gordon McKay Scholar, 
distinguished career at  Bell Labs, Illinois Institute of Technology, 
Bell Labs Radio Research  Laboratory, Georgia Institute of Technology, 
Georgia Tech Research  Institute, Stanford (working with Fred Terman, as 
he had at RRL), Stanford  Electronics Research Laboratory, GE, founded 
Emtech, Stanford Research  Institute, IEEE Life Fellow.

Edson was very well-known and  well-respected in his day, but he didn't 
publish much.

To this day,  I still refer to "Vacuum-Tube Oscillators" regularly -- 
over 60 years  since it was published!

Best  regards,

Charles


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Re: [time-nuts] Oscillator Phase Noise: A 50-Year Review

[Charles Steinmetz]

Rick wrote:


It has always irked me that no credit was given to Edson
He is the proverbial "unsung hero"


Hardly unsung.  Harvard PhD Sigma Xi as a Gordon McKay Scholar, 
distinguished career at Bell Labs, Illinois Institute of Technology, 
Bell Labs Radio Research Laboratory, Georgia Institute of Technology, 
Georgia Tech Research Institute, Stanford (working with Fred Terman, as 
he had at RRL), Stanford Electronics Research Laboratory, GE, founded 
Emtech, Stanford Research Institute, IEEE Life Fellow.


Edson was very well-known and well-respected in his day, but he didn't 
publish much.


To this day, I still refer to "Vacuum-Tube Oscillators" regularly -- 
over 60 years since it was published!


Best regards,

Charles


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Re: [time-nuts] Oscillator Phase Noise: A 50-Year Review

[Magnus Danielson]

Rick,

On 08/06/2016 06:18 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:



On 8/5/2016 12:47 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote:

Here's a new article, on IEEE's site (and this one's free):

"Oscillator Phase Noise: A 50-Year Review", by David B. Leeson
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?arnumber=7464875



It has always irked me that no credit was given to Edson's
pioneering 1953 book "Vacuum tube oscillators" in Leeson's papers
and I see that the omission continues in the latest paper.  You can see
from the following reference that Edson was the true pioneer in this
field:

http://garfield.library.upenn.edu/classics1983/A1983QV0081.pdf

He actually had the basic idea in 1934.  He is the proverbial
"unsung hero".


Then write an article and point it out. Have a discussion with David 
Leeson for that mather, he is still active enough.


It could be that Edson's work was not known to them in this context.

Regardless, just put it in text and show the precursor work. I bet that 
many does not know of this work precursor the Leeson 1966 paper.


You have this knowledge, share it in proper ways.

Cheers,
Magnus
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Re: [time-nuts] Austron 2010B (disciplined OCXO) square wave conversion

[Bob Camp]

Hi


> On Aug 6, 2016, at 3:00 AM, Ruslan Nabioullin  wrote:
> 
> Hi, I recently bought an Austron 2010B, a disciplined OCXO standard with 
> adjustable disciplining parameters, for use as a clean-up oscillator and a 
> decent fallback to my Ball MRT-H, a rubidium standard.  I figured that the 
> quartz standard's 1 Mhz and 5 MHz outputs are fine---the former is exactly 
> what my Truetime 814-149, a time code generator, needs for eventually 
> providing PPS output to my SPARC-based NTP server, and the latter can be 
> doubled, amplified, and distributed, all with a single distribution amplifier 
> unit, for use as a timebase for transmitters and lab instruments.  Only later 
> did I realize that for some bizarre reason, all of the outputs are square 
> wave, not sinusoidal!  Great.
> 
> Any ideas on the likely reason that the unit was engineered with only square 
> wave outputs?

Obviously some system somewhere needed a bunch of square waves. Likely some 
sort of digital system. 
Telecom gear comes to mind. Austron would happily sell you one with just about 
any sort of outputs you
wished to pay for.

>  Obviously this will render division to PPS trivial, but all of the 
> applicable equipment that I've encountered use a sinusoidal reference, not a 
> square one, so it doesn't seem prudent to exclude sine.  And naturally, what 
> is the most prudent course of action in this situation?  I'd rather use 
> something prebuilt than building my own converter, but all the distribution 
> amplifiers I've looked at lack such a conversion feature, and I'm unsure 
> whether plain square to sine converters are suitable for such time/frequency 
> metrology applications.

Provided the phase noise is ok, a square wave works fine. The bigger question 
is: Do the square wave outputs drive 50 ohms ok? 

Bob

> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Ruslan
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Re: [time-nuts] Using the HP 58503a to correct your PC clock

[David J Taylor]

The Meinberg page I'm reading has NTP downloads for Windows XP and newer and 
for older versions of Windows. If you meant a special version of NTP for 
Windows 7, I didn't see mention of it.

Ron
===

No, it was just that you mentioned Win-7 and the Meinberg compilation is 
compatible with Win-XP/SP3 and later.  There is a recommendation for Win-7 
and later which is not to allow the poll to exceed 6 (or 7?) for remote 
servers.  E.g.


   # UK pool servers
   pooluk.pool.ntp.orgminpoll 6 maxpoll 6 iburst

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv 


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Re: [time-nuts] Using the HP 58503a to correct your PC clock

[Martin Burnicki]

Ron,

Ron Ott wrote:
> The Meinberg page I'm reading has NTP downloads for Windows XP and newer and 
> for older versions of Windows. If you meant a special version of NTP for 
> Windows 7, I didn't see mention of it.

Why do you think "Windows XP and newer" doesn't include Windows 7, 8,
and 10?

Martin (working @Meinberg)

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[time-nuts] Austron 2010B (disciplined OCXO) square wave conversion

[Ruslan Nabioullin]

Hi, I recently bought an Austron 2010B, a disciplined OCXO standard with 
adjustable disciplining parameters, for use as a clean-up oscillator and 
a decent fallback to my Ball MRT-H, a rubidium standard.  I figured that 
the quartz standard's 1 Mhz and 5 MHz outputs are fine---the former is 
exactly what my Truetime 814-149, a time code generator, needs for 
eventually providing PPS output to my SPARC-based NTP server, and the 
latter can be doubled, amplified, and distributed, all with a single 
distribution amplifier unit, for use as a timebase for transmitters and 
lab instruments.  Only later did I realize that for some bizarre reason, 
all of the outputs are square wave, not sinusoidal!  Great.


Any ideas on the likely reason that the unit was engineered with only 
square wave outputs?  Obviously this will render division to PPS 
trivial, but all of the applicable equipment that I've encountered use a 
sinusoidal reference, not a square one, so it doesn't seem prudent to 
exclude sine.  And naturally, what is the most prudent course of action 
in this situation?  I'd rather use something prebuilt than building my 
own converter, but all the distribution amplifiers I've looked at lack 
such a conversion feature, and I'm unsure whether plain square to sine 
converters are suitable for such time/frequency metrology applications.


Thanks in advance,
Ruslan
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Re: [time-nuts] Oscillator Phase Noise: A 50-Year Review

[Michael Wouters]

On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:34 AM, KA2WEU--- via time-nuts
 wrote:

> Leeson produced a somewhat random selection of papers , omitting important
> things like the sapphire based best in the word . This was not even
> referenced  .

The reference [145] at the end of the sentence that mentions sapphire
oscillators also discusses a hybrid photonic-microwave oscillator that
incorporates a room-temperature sapphire oscillator so I think he
tried to cover both subjects with that single reference.

The paper has a misleading title. It suggests that it is a history of
the last 50 years, when it is about events roughly 50 years ago. The
abstract makes this clear though. So I didn't really expect to read
much about developments past 1970.

Cheers
Michael


On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:34 AM, KA2WEU--- via time-nuts
 wrote:
> Some of the cited references are poor, modern non-linear mathematic is kind
>  of omitted . After all the oscillator  phase noise speculation, I would
> have really liked to see at last a reference about the most modern
> measurements  techniques and it validation. How do you calibrate a phase 
> noise test
> system.
>
> Leeson produced a somewhat random selection of papers , omitting important
> things like the sapphire based best in the word . This was not even
> referenced  .
>
> I think he is really out of it .
>
> 73 de N1UL
>
>
>
> In a message dated 8/5/2016 7:11:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> j...@miles.io writes:
>
>>
>> Very selected and incomplete references and the equally   important
>> question
>> of measurements strangely not  covered
>>
>> 73 de N 1  UL
>>
>
> I suppose he could  write an equally-lengthy article on measurements alone,
> but leaving out the  post-1970s history entirely was a little
> disappointing.  It was strange  to hit "ctrl-f Rohde" and see only one 
> reference in the
> bibliography.   Same for "Hewlett."  "Rubiola" brings up one hit (but no
> citations) and  "Stein" brings up none at all.
>
> -- john, KE5FX
> Miles Design  LLC
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Looking to find an antenna for a TrueTime XL-DC

[Martin Burnicki]

Alexander Pummer wrote:
> Meinberg https://www.meinbergglobal.com/ makes complete down and up
> converter for GPS remote antennas

That's true, but they have been designed for the frontend assembled in
Meinberg GPS receivers. I doubt they work with Truetime devices.

Martin (working @Meinberg)

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Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna selection — lightning

[Charles Steinmetz]

Glenn wrote:


A very good reference for EMP protection is MIL-HDBK-419.
This is downloadable for a number of web sources.


Tisha Hayes has a big fat folder full of good stuff relating to 
"Grounding Surge and Filtering" at her dropbox site, and another one 
full of "Transient Protection Documents."  See:




Best regards,

Charles


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