Re: [time-nuts] Microsemi 3120A sold on eBay

[John Allen]

It is interesting to note that the seller is in Salem, MA, a few miles south of 
Microsemi in Beverly, MA.

PS: Here is a list of the many acquisitions they have made:
https://www.microsemi.com/company/acquisitions

John K1AE

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of John Miles
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2018 6:49 PM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Microsemi 3120A sold on eBay

They're essentially the same as the original TimePod 5330A specs  ( 
http://www.miles.io/TimePod_5330A_user_manual.pdf page 11).  The 3120A doesn't 
display noise at offsets below 1 Hz, though, while the 5330A went down to 0.01 
Hz.  Also, some of the TimePod features are "added-value" software options in 
the 3120A, but it's not clear if this unit came with any of the license keys.  

The final selling price seems fairly reasonable considering the sparse details 
provided by the seller.  If someone on the list bought it and it doesn't have 
the software CD, drop me a note offline and I'll hook you up.

-- john, KE5FX
Miles Design LLC

> What are the specs ? 73 de N1UL
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Jan 27, 2018, at 5:38 PM, John Miles  wrote:
> >
> > So, who's the lucky winner?  Anyone on here?  That's the first one of these
> > I've seen in the "secondary market," so to speak.
> >
> >
> >
> > https://www.ebay.com/itm/332531180078
> >

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Re: [time-nuts] CSAC Project(was CSAC purchase)

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

Yes, I have set up a CPU to dump all the data from a CSAC. Everything 
they list in their data sheet can easily be dumped via a standard UART 
interface. The serial protocol works exactly the way they describe. 

There is no “built in clock” so no ability to dump the time and date. You 
can “improve” the frequency stability by sending whatever you want to the 
tuning word. What you send and when you send it is entirely up to you. 
The real issue is having something more accurate than the CSAC to 
compare to when you do the frequency correction.

Bob

> On Jan 27, 2018, at 7:29 PM, Ronald Held  wrote:
> 
> Bob:
>Interesting but too general for me. Has anyone used a CPU to read
> the CSAC outputs for time/date, and for improving frequency stability?
>Ronald
> 
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> “Included software” on the CSAC is a pretty short list …. There
> is not much past the “stuff” to set it on frequency and read out
> a few alarms.
> 
> One thing that gets into a lot of these projects:
> 
> We are Time Nuts and spec things in terms of time. This error
> over that period is some specific number. Maybe we look at
> temperature rather than sit it on the shelf for a year. The number
> is still a time error.
> 
> Pretty much everybody making devices spec’s them (and may think
> of them) as frequency generating gizmos. They all spec a frequency
> error over some condition (like a period of time).  Unfortunately time
> error and frequency error aren’t the same thing.
> 
> This also gets into things like control loops. Generally the input is a
> time error and the output is a frequency control. Same basic gotcha
> the input isn’t the same as the output. Fortunately they are related
> very closely to each other.
> 
> Bob
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Re: [time-nuts] CSAC Project(was CSAC purchase)

[Ronald Held]

Bob:
Interesting but too general for me. Has anyone used a CPU to read
the CSAC outputs for time/date, and for improving frequency stability?
Ronald



Hi

“Included software” on the CSAC is a pretty short list …. There
is not much past the “stuff” to set it on frequency and read out
a few alarms.

One thing that gets into a lot of these projects:

We are Time Nuts and spec things in terms of time. This error
over that period is some specific number. Maybe we look at
temperature rather than sit it on the shelf for a year. The number
is still a time error.

Pretty much everybody making devices spec’s them (and may think
of them) as frequency generating gizmos. They all spec a frequency
error over some condition (like a period of time).  Unfortunately time
error and frequency error aren’t the same thing.

This also gets into things like control loops. Generally the input is a
time error and the output is a frequency control. Same basic gotcha
the input isn’t the same as the output. Fortunately they are related
very closely to each other.

Bob
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Re: [time-nuts] Microsemi 3120A sold on eBay

[John Miles]

They're essentially the same as the original TimePod 5330A specs  ( 
http://www.miles.io/TimePod_5330A_user_manual.pdf page 11).  The 3120A doesn't 
display noise at offsets below 1 Hz, though, while the 5330A went down to 0.01 
Hz.  Also, some of the TimePod features are "added-value" software options in 
the 3120A, but it's not clear if this unit came with any of the license keys.  

The final selling price seems fairly reasonable considering the sparse details 
provided by the seller.  If someone on the list bought it and it doesn't have 
the software CD, drop me a note offline and I'll hook you up.

-- john, KE5FX
Miles Design LLC

> What are the specs ? 73 de N1UL
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Jan 27, 2018, at 5:38 PM, John Miles  wrote:
> >
> > So, who's the lucky winner?  Anyone on here?  That's the first one of these
> > I've seen in the "secondary market," so to speak.
> >
> >
> >
> > https://www.ebay.com/itm/332531180078
> >

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Re: [time-nuts] Microsemi 3120A sold on eBay

[jimlux]

On 1/27/18 3:33 PM, Bruce Griffiths wrote:

http://www.chronos.co.uk/files/pdfs/mic/3120a.pdf

Bruce



 On 28 January 2018 at 11:57 "Dr. Ulrich L. Rohde via time-nuts" 
 wrote:

 What are the specs ? 73 de N1UL

 Sent from my iPhone

 > >

 On Jan 27, 2018, at 5:38 PM, John Miles  wrote:

 So, who's the lucky winner? Anyone on here? That's the first one of 
these
 I've seen in the "secondary market," so to speak.

 https://www.ebay.com/itm/332531180078

 -- john





More importantly what license keys does it include:
"The base model of the 3120A allows customers to measure phase noise and 
ADEV. Upgradeable software options for customers to measure AM noise, 
HDEV, MDEV, TDEV, and jitter, along with the ability to set test mask 
limits or to use ...




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Re: [time-nuts] Microsemi 3120A sold on eBay

[Bruce Griffiths]

http://www.chronos.co.uk/files/pdfs/mic/3120a.pdf

Bruce

> 
> On 28 January 2018 at 11:57 "Dr. Ulrich L. Rohde via time-nuts" 
>  wrote:
> 
> What are the specs ? 73 de N1UL
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > > 
> > On Jan 27, 2018, at 5:38 PM, John Miles  wrote:
> > 
> > So, who's the lucky winner? Anyone on here? That's the first one of 
> > these
> > I've seen in the "secondary market," so to speak.
> > 
> > https://www.ebay.com/itm/332531180078
> > 
> > -- john
> > 
> > Miles Design LLC
> > 
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to 
> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> > 
> > > 
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Re: [time-nuts] Microsemi 3120A sold on eBay

[Dr. Ulrich L. Rohde via time-nuts]

What are the specs ? 73 de N1UL 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 27, 2018, at 5:38 PM, John Miles  wrote:
> 
> So, who's the lucky winner?  Anyone on here?  That's the first one of these
> I've seen in the "secondary market," so to speak.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/332531180078
> 
> 
> 
> -- john
> 
> Miles Design LLC
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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[time-nuts] Microsemi 3120A sold on eBay

[John Miles]

So, who's the lucky winner?  Anyone on here?  That's the first one of these
I've seen in the "secondary market," so to speak.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/332531180078

 

-- john

Miles Design LLC

 

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[time-nuts] CSAC Project(was CSAC purchase)

[Mark Sims]

Well, if somebody will give me a CSAC,  I'll add support for it to Lady Heather 
 ;-)   Heather runs on Windows, macOS,  Linux (including the RasPi), and 
FreeBSD.

---

>  “Included software” on the CSAC is a pretty short list …. There
is not much past the “stuff” to set it on frequency and read out 
a few alarms.
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Re: [time-nuts] CSAC Project(was CSAC purchase)

[jimlux]

On 1/27/18 8:10 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote:

Hi

“Included software” on the CSAC is a pretty short list …. There
is not much past the “stuff” to set it on frequency and read out
a few alarms.


There's a half dozen serial ascii commands to the CSAC, and a 
corresponding number of output messages. None are particularly "special" 
- I can't imagine needing a "display" for the telemetry, except perhaps 
as a novelty.


You'd want to periodically check the heater power, maybe?

I'd just expose a "diagnostic interface" on a CSAC based clock, and if 
you want to fool with it (or change the frequency, etc.), you hook up 
your external whatever.

LE Bluetooth Serial port perhaps?

You could write an App for a phone to talk to it, and I'm sure it will 
be in the top10 on the iStore and GooglePlay within weeks. Your 
retirement funding is assured. 




One thing that gets into a lot of these projects:

We are Time Nuts and spec things in terms of time. This error
over that period is some specific number. Maybe we look at
temperature rather than sit it on the shelf for a year. The number
is still a time error.






Very much so. Even here on "time-nuts" we discuss more about "frequency" 
- ADEV is a frequency error measure, after all.

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Re: [time-nuts] CSAC Project(was CSAC purchase)

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

“Included software” on the CSAC is a pretty short list …. There
is not much past the “stuff” to set it on frequency and read out 
a few alarms.

One thing that gets into a lot of these projects:

We are Time Nuts and spec things in terms of time. This error 
over that period is some specific number. Maybe we look at 
temperature rather than sit it on the shelf for a year. The number
is still a time error. 

Pretty much everybody making devices spec’s them (and may think 
of them) as frequency generating gizmos. They all spec a frequency 
error over some condition (like a period of time).  Unfortunately time 
error and frequency error aren’t the same thing. 

This also gets into things like control loops. Generally the input is a
time error and the output is a frequency control. Same basic gotcha
the input isn’t the same as the output. Fortunately they are related 
very closely to each other. 

Bob

> On Jan 27, 2018, at 10:32 AM, Ronald Held  wrote:
> 
> Bob:
>That makes sense, since you need some display short of the
> included software.  Might end up giany cell phone size?
> Beyond my abilities, since I am a software guy, not hardware.
> Ronald
> 
> Hi
> 
> One way or the other you will need some “smarts” to do aging compensation.
> That implies adding a CPU of some sort to the “system” you are building. There
> is no built in subsystem on the CSAC that will do any of this for you. You 
> also
> need some sort of display for your “wrist watch”. Having the CPU handle that
> at the same time makes a lot of sense.
> 
> Bob
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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt Issue

[Chris Caudle]

On Sat, January 27, 2018 9:47 am, J. L. Trantham wrote:
> I remember an issue with another OCXO where the output coupling capacitor
> connection failed and outputs were low.

The thunderbolt uses the output of the OCXO for driving internal clocks,
so likely the OCXO output is OK, but a buffer between the OCXO output and
the connector is bad.

-- 
Chris Caudle


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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt Issue

[J. L. Trantham]

I agree with Bert.

I remember an issue with another OCXO where the output coupling capacitor 
connection failed and outputs were low.  Opening the OCXO and resoldering the 
connection returned the output to normal.  Morion I think.

I've never heard of this issue with the Trimble but not to say it couldn't 
happen.

Found a link.

https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2013-November/081126.html

Good luck.

Joe

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of ewkehren via 
time-nuts
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2018 8:44 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt Issue

Do not toss, first check output of OCXO if good keep if you do not fiend the 
problem. If no output replace. If L H shows that it works bring OCXO output 
directly.Bert Kehren 


Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Richard Solomon  
Date: 1/26/18  1:39 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: time-nuts  Subject: 
[time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt Issue I have a T-Bolt whose 10 MHz output has 
dropped off to about 6 mV. Using T-Bolt Mon,

all the Alarms are Green and it shows Tracking 3 or 4 Satellites (small Hockey 
Puck Antenna).


Without a schematic I am lost as to where to look.


Anyone have any suggestions ? I had to toss an otherwise working T-Bolt.


Thanks for any assistance,


Dick, W1KSZ


Sent from Outlook 
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Re: [time-nuts] CSAC Project(was CSAC purchase)

[Ronald Held]

Bob:
That makes sense, since you need some display short of the
included software.  Might end up giany cell phone size?
 Beyond my abilities, since I am a software guy, not hardware.
 Ronald

 Hi

 One way or the other you will need some “smarts” to do aging compensation.
 That implies adding a CPU of some sort to the “system” you are building. There
 is no built in subsystem on the CSAC that will do any of this for you. You also
 need some sort of display for your “wrist watch”. Having the CPU handle that
 at the same time makes a lot of sense.

 Bob
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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt Issue

[ewkehren via time-nuts]

Do not toss, first check output of OCXO if good keep if you do not fiend the 
problem. If no output replace. If L H shows that it works bring OCXO output 
directly.Bert Kehren 


Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Richard Solomon  
Date: 1/26/18  1:39 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: time-nuts  Subject: 
[time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt Issue 
I have a T-Bolt whose 10 MHz output has dropped off to about 6 mV. Using T-Bolt 
Mon,

all the Alarms are Green and it shows Tracking 3 or 4 Satellites (small Hockey 
Puck Antenna).


Without a schematic I am lost as to where to look.


Anyone have any suggestions ? I had to toss an otherwise working T-Bolt.


Thanks for any assistance,


Dick, W1KSZ


Sent from Outlook
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[time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt Issue

[Richard Solomon]

I have a T-Bolt whose 10 MHz output has dropped off to about 6 mV. Using T-Bolt 
Mon,

all the Alarms are Green and it shows Tracking 3 or 4 Satellites (small Hockey 
Puck Antenna).


Without a schematic I am lost as to where to look.


Anyone have any suggestions ? I had to toss an otherwise working T-Bolt.


Thanks for any assistance,


Dick, W1KSZ


Sent from Outlook
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