[time-nuts] Terminators on empty outputs/connectors

[Clay Autery]

Putting in a hardware order...

Question:  Is it recommended to put terminators on all unused GPS Distro 
amp ports?  Output ports on GPSDO and NTP servers (10MHz and PPS).


Thanks!

--
__
Clay Autery
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

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Re: [time-nuts] WTB: HP/Agilent/Symmetricom 58517A Distribution Amplifier

[Clay Autery]

Gotcha  and agree

The 58516a/58517a as the main distro amp allows me to power the antenna 
with a separate supply (for many reasons).
Essentially, I want to replace the 4-way with an 8-way amp with same 
power setup.


Then if I want to cascade unpowered splitters from one or more unity 
gain ports on the distro amp, I can do that.  


For much of what I am/will be doing, I want to be able to provide "equal 
access" to antenna signal to designated devices to control variables 
somewhat.


*Clay Autery
(318) 518-1389
*
On 05/18/18 08:50, Bob kb8tq wrote:

Hi

 From what I have seen, it is a rare setup that requires all amplified 
distribution. Yes,
it is possible. Unless you are in that rare case, the MiniCircuits eight and 
sixteen port
splitters do a great job for *way* less money.

Bob

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[time-nuts] WTB: HP/Agilent/Symmetricom 58517A Distribution Amplifier

[Clay Autery]

Need one of these:

*HP/Agilent/Symmetricom 58517A Distribution Amplifier (8 port)*

Ideally... actually definitely need the one with the external DC power 
input with DC blocks on all 8 ports.


I have a 4-port, but it's going to be full by the end of the week.

73,
Clay, KY5G

--
*Clay Autery
(318) 518-1389
MONTAC Enterprises*
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[time-nuts] Bodnar "Precision Frequency Reference (GPS Clock)" AND LeoNTP Networked Time NTP Server Questions

[Clay Autery]

Anyone who is using one (or both) of these, and/or folks who have a 
logical opinion:


*"GPSDO"* - Once configured, unit can run on an external DC source 
(5-15VDC).  I am NOT using it to power the mast mounted timing antenna.  
I don't anticipate leaving unit connected to a computer when not 
configuring UNLESS I can figure out how to grab data from the unit via 
the USB port for reporting/analysis.


Questions:
1)  What are the specs of the DC plug on the back?  If I use an external 
supply, I want to eliminate the addition of yet another SMPS/wall wart 
to the clutter.


2) IF you were choosing a voltage to run JUST this unit on 
big/short/twisted/ferited leads, what voltage would you choose 
(regulating down from 13.8VDC or so).  Anything above the required 
minimum will be converted to heat in either the unit or at the 
regulator.  Considering this uses a TXCO (I think) and not an OXCO or 
DOXCO, is running it hotter to try and achieve a more consistent 
internal temp worth the tradeoff in potentially shortened life of the 
unit.  (Bottom Line: What voltage will make it run most 
accurately/consistently?)


*LeoNTP Networked Time NTP Server* -  Can be powered via USB or PoE 
according to website.  Detailed specs are seriously lacking.  Trying to 
wade through how to power it.  USB is obviously 5vdc or a bit less  
But the PoE could be much higher with an internal regulator(s)


-  I haven't bought my new switch yet, so I can buy one with PoE 
capability or otherwise inject PoE on the Ethernet cable from the NTP 
Server to the Gbit switch.
-  All Ethernet cables in my network are CAT-7 STP (shielded twisted 
pair) or better.  (Yeah, yeah, I know, wired Ethernet can be noisy, but 
you do the best you can.  IF wired Ethernet becomes an issue, I can back 
up to the wireless network.)
-  Not sure how much I plan to have the unit connected via USB. Beyond 
curiosity data gathering for a while, I'm thinking at some point I want 
it to be disco'd and forgotten.  One less potential USB cable radiating 
or needing ferrites.


There's more...  but this is a good start.  Just want to try and get 
parts on the way.  Have to build a separate outboard regulator for the 
timing GPS antenna, too.


Thanks!

--
*Clay Autery
(318) 518-1389
MONTAC Enterprises*
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[time-nuts] Caving In: Throwing Money at Solution

[Clay Autery]

Just dropped orders for
1) Bodnar GPSDO - feed VNA, other lab instruments, and K3s radio2) LeoNTP - 
time for network and clients.3) SDR-Kits DG8SAQ VNWA 3EC - long list of 
jobs/projects
I really wanted to build a RPi NTP and mod the NORTEL GPSDO for 10Mhz and even 
maybe build a VNA  I have all the materials for the first two projects 
sitting on the bench.
But I looked at the feed line on the floor from the GPS antenna on the 38 ft 
mast outside, at my projects list, and at my "have to do" list and I simply 
realized that I can't build everything I want to.  not if I want to get my 
station/lab anywhere near functional in the time I have left!  :)
So, I've decided to throw money at these three projects.  Now I can move on to 
actually building towers, antennas, and other fun stuff.
Trying NOT to feel lazy for NOT building what I can  but I have a tiltdown 
tower and foundation to do, antennas to build, lighting and ground systems to 
build, etc...
For now, I'll just have to accept "good enough" on the GPSDO.
Have a great day!Clay, KY5G

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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Re: [time-nuts] Replacement Backup Battery for 5065A?

[Clay Autery]

I don't know what your package requirement is, but I would at least LOOK at 
LiFePO as a solution.  These guys provide all my radio related batteries...
https://www.bioennopower.com/collections/24v-series-lifepo4-lithium-iron-phosphate-batteries/products/24v-10ah-lfp-battery-abs-blf-2410ts
The smallest 24vdc I see is 10 Ahr, but they are very responsive and will 
either help you out or send you in the right direction.


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: Stan  Date: 
2/25/18  13:41  (GMT-06:00) To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] 
Replacement Backup Battery for 5065A? 
With all this recent 5065A talk I decided to pull mine out of storage and fire 
it up. After a little time to let everything warm up and settle in, I'm happy 
to report that it's working just fine!

My 5065A has the battery backup option, and the battery is the original one 
(1420-0066, Energy Sales p/n ES710, 25.2V 1.4 Ah). Not surprisingly, the 
battery is quite dead. Does anyone any insight about installing a more modern 
battery (SLA or NiMH, perhaps) that will fit in the battery compartment in the 
5065A?

I've looked at a few small 12V/2.2Ah SLA batteries that are physically small 
enough that I should be able to fit a couple in the enclosure and connect them 
in series to get 24 volts out, but I want to wait until either I have assurance 
from someone with more experience than I that this will actually work, or a 
better idea about a more suitable replacement.

Thanks,
Stan

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Re: [time-nuts] eBay GPS antenna test results.

[Clay Autery]

I would be extremely surprised if ebay does not rule in your favor.
I've only had ONE case EVER opened against me, and it was CLEARLY not a 
valid case, but eBay still made me give the buyer his money back IN FULL 
to include shipping.

eBay almost always picks the buyer over the seller.

73,
Clay, KY5G


On 02/11/18 08:07, John Green wrote:

I opened a "Not as listed" case and heard back from the seller. They said
that the antenna is definitely 3.3 to 18 volts and have sold several that
are in operation. They wanted to know specifically how I tested the
antenna, why I thought it shorted, and if I actually ever hooked it to a
GPS receiver. I answered as best I could but haven't heard anything
further. eBay seems to like pictures or videos. Though problematic, I
suppose I could take some pictures. I offered to do so in my response to
the seller. They do seem a bit more responsive to buyer complaints than in
previous years. I recently ordered a 64 Gb micro SD card from a US based
seller. I got a message from eBay stating that they had removed the listing
but that everything should be OK. I never received the SD card, and after a
month, checked PayPal and saw that I had been charged for it. I contacted
eBay and they refunded my money the next day.
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS Antenna Feed Line Decision

[Clay Autery]

Thank you for your response.  Again, money is not the issue or
priority.  Knowing that I am getting the best signal within reason (my
reason   )
Tangentially, you have provided me with the information I require.  As I
do not know what I will hang off the end of that antenna in the future
and I am in fact going to be doing some measurement/experimentation, I
will use something better than RG-59 or RG-6 (even if it is only
"better" in my opinion).

I am an incurable over-engineer... and this IS "Time NUTS" after all. 


Thank to you AND to ALL who have made recommendations thusfar
especially the ones with whom I disagree.  Those are the recommendations
that keep me from completely abandoning rational decision-making.  

73,

______
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 9/2/2017 3:27 PM, Mark Sims wrote:
> Cheap RG-59 cable coax is more than sufficient for 50 .. 150+ feet (unless 
> you are doing geodetic level GPS work).  It is recommended by several GPSDO 
> makers.  The 50/75 ohm mismatch is not an issue.  No need to waste money on 
> fancy pants artisanal luxury coax.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS Antenna Feed Line Decision

[Clay Autery]

Actually haven't settled on an exact solution yet, Gilles.  The power
supply will likely become part of the observations/experiment that
prompted me to use the external supply in the first place.

- All of the devices WANT to supply the antenna.  2 are nominal 5VDC, 1
supplies nominal 3.3VDC...  so I was going to have to use DC blocking
anyway.  The HP amp provides a load resistor (to fool the devices
hopefully) and DC blocking on all ports.  Thus, I get to choose how I
provide the DC power to the PCTEL antenna.

- I saw in some aviation references where pilots claimed that they
achieved "better performance" by running their antennas at higher
voltages.  (Overclocking the antenna amp?  Who knows.)  But it piqued my
interest, especially since the PCTEL antenna I have will "run" from
below 5VDC through 12 VDC and has an even higher survival voltage.

Thus was born the secondary goal of finding out if there is anything to
these reports.  IF I can control the voltage supplied on a (preferably
constant) variable basis to the antenna, I can construct an experiment
to evaluate IF there are performance increase/degradation and in what
ways  over a wide range of voltages.  IF it pans out on MY antenna,
I will likely have to expand it to additional antennas.

BUT, in answer to your direct question:  Right now I do not know.  I do
know a FEW things.

1) It certainly will not be a switching PS.
2) While I would love to use a super-expensive "lab-grade" supply, I
would actually like to engineer a solution that I can integrate into the
shack/lab on a permanent basis for use in normal ops and future projects.
3) I'm leaning in the same direction that I am for powering everything
in my house that actually wants DC current  some combination of
linear power supplies and batteries.
4) A lot of this is simply an excuse to engage in an academic exercise
in order to learn/play.  

Bottom Line: I'll read/research/design and build until I come up with a
supply that meets my needs.  Just off the top of my head, a linear
supply that charges a battery or batteries that provide the top voltage
or voltages in multiple ranges which are then regulated/filtered to
provide dead flat DC at the desired levels.
I am not an engineer or an expert of any kind.  I'll have to go learn
all this.  

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 9/3/2017 1:55 AM, Clemgill wrote:
> Hi Clay,
> Intersting subject.
> What design for ultra stable/clean power supply are you using please ?
> Thx,
> Gilles.
>
>> On Sep 2, 2017, at 22:47, Clay Autery <caut...@montac.com> wrote:
>>
>> PCTEL GPS-TMG-HR-26NCM Antenna. 
>> http://www.neobits.com/pctel_maxrad_gps_tmg_hr_26ncm_high_rejection_gps_p2769137.htm
>>
>> Can't say what the gain tolerances are, but it appears to be a pretty
>> decent quality part.
>>
>> The distribution amp is an HP 58516A GPS L1 Distribution Amp with the
>> external power supply tap which will be fed with an ultras stable/clean
>> adjustable linear power supply.  As I understand it, this is a unity
>> gain amp, so there should be little to no insertion loss or distro losses.
>>
>> The distribution amp will be mounted near the devices such that amp to
>> device jumpers will all be < 1 meter/3.28 feet.  Likely a lot less.  ALL
>> Times N-connectors until reaching a connector TM doesn't make.
>>
>> __
>> Clay Autery, KY5G
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS Antenna Feed Line Decision

[Clay Autery]

Thanks for the response...

Not sure why you and the other guy both recommended RG-6 75-Ohm cable
and F-connectors, when the nominal impedance of literally everything
else in the system is 50 Ohm, including the antenna and the HP GPS
Distribution Amp  And then adding N to F adapters?

Doesn't make any sense unless one has $$ as a top priority, already has
a spool of RG-6 quad shield, etc...  but I specifically stated that $$
is not a top priority  Not really even in the top 5 or 10...

The whole point of this exercise is to put up a semi-permanent SINGLE
antenna/feed-line install that will supply all 4 ports of the HP amp
with the least compromised signal within reason 4 now, and 8
whenever I can find the HP 8-way distro amp with external power input.

Strain relief solution:  Really depends upon which cable stock I end up
using  Obviously, the larger the cable, the more weight will be
suspended under the antenna (approx. 38 feet, depending on where I pull
the cable out of the mast at the bottom.  (The mast is on a tilt-base of
my own construction  which brings up a valid consideration.  it is
already a chore to walk the mast up manually.  The more weight added at
the top and inside the mast, the more difficult a manual walk-up will
be.  I'd prefer to keep this a manual tilt for now...  at least until I
add the tri-band vertical dipole)

LMR-400 would be less than 4 lbs total weight...  I'd likely suspend the
cable by the connector alone. (although, it wouldn't be JUST the
crimp...  The connector would have at a minimum, 1 layer of
adhesive-lined shrink tube... probably 2, with the second, overlapping. 
Then a nice wrap of self-fusing tape and then electrical tape over that.
Even LMR-600 could be suspended by the connector alone, at 5 lbs max in
the 38 foot max vertical section.
I do have several methods of secondary suspension within the top (and/or
second) mast section though if I decide I need it.

Also prefer to keep all the connectors N-type as much as possible since
that is the station standard.

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 9/2/2017 6:07 PM, Mike Naruta AA8K wrote:
>
> Clay, you may wish to consider using a quality RG-6 with F
> connectors.  Grounding blocks are readily available for the base of
> your mast and the entrance to your house.  Also, off-the-shelf
> over-voltage protectors (Zap-Tech) are available. I even found an
> F-to-N adapter for the antenna on Amazon.  Watch out for the ones with
> metric N threads though.
>
> For my 25 meter run I was going to use an existing one inch Heliax,
> but pulled a run of Belden RG-6 instead after learning that Trimble
> used RG-6.
>
> It worked well directly connected to a Trimble Thunderbolt; now it is
> connected to a Symmetricon 58535A GPS L1 distribution amplifier.
>
>
> My Blitzortung System Red station has been running fine in my attic
> (Michigan) on a Motorola 97 Oncore patch antenna fastened against the
> roof underside.  It is looking through wood, shingles, and nails (and
> a tree and antennas and utility lines).
>
>
> How are you planning to do strain-relief on the vertical run of coax
> inside of your mast?
>
>
> Mike - AA8K
>
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS Antenna Feed Line Decision

[Clay Autery]

HP 58516A GPS L1 Disribution Amplifier ( 4-way with external power
supply input)

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 9/2/2017 3:38 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
> What are you using for a distribution amplifier ?
>
> On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 11:57 AM, Clay Autery <caut...@montac.com> wrote:
>
>> Having decision-making problems for the materials for my GPS main
>> feedline.  Going to use a TM LMR stock, just can't decide how big to go
>> with it...
>>
>> 26 dB 5vdc antenna on top of a 38 foot mast.  Feed will come down the
>> inside/center of mast and exit near the bottom, thence routed through a
>> window and to the GPS distro amp. Antenna will feed GPSDO, NTP Server,
>> Blitzortung System Blue station, and one other device TBD.
>>
>> Just cannot decide how big to go with the antenna to distro amp feed...
>> Assuming 50 feet total (38' mast + 12 feet to amp in shack) @ 1800 MHz
>> (closest to 1725 MHz), here are the losses from just this piece
>> (ignoring the amp to device jumpers):
>>
>> -240 = 5.45 dB XXX - too much loss?
>> -400 = 2.85 dB
>> -500 = 2.30 dB  XXX - too hard to find
>> -600 = 1.85 dB
>> -900 = 1.25 dB
>>
>> Money not necessarily a consideration as this is a short run for a
>> permanent installation.  Don't anticipate ever moving the GPS antenna to
>> the tower.
>> For 900 and likely 600, likely would not be able to do it in one piece
>> as routing it out of the mast and into the shack would get complicated.
>> Would likely bring it out of the mast at the bottom with a right angle
>> connector, and then use a smaller diameter jumper for the last 12 feet.
>> 500 is pretty uncommon stock wise and it and connectors are harder to find.
>>
>> I already have the tooling for both 240 and 400... but I definitely
>> don't want to challenge ANY of the devices for signal gain.
>>
>> So it mostly boils down to easy vs. more effort ($$ aside)  Is it
>> worth the additional trouble to move from -400 to -600 or -900?  To NOT
>> lose the 1-1.6 dB additional?
>>
>> I'd appreciate your recommendation and reasoning. Thanks in advance!
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> --
>> __
>> Clay Autery, KY5G
>> MONTAC Enterprises
>> (318) 518-1389
>>
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS Antenna Feed Line Decision

[Clay Autery]

PCTEL GPS-TMG-HR-26NCM Antenna. 
http://www.neobits.com/pctel_maxrad_gps_tmg_hr_26ncm_high_rejection_gps_p2769137.htm

Can't say what the gain tolerances are, but it appears to be a pretty
decent quality part.

The distribution amp is an HP 58516A GPS L1 Distribution Amp with the
external power supply tap which will be fed with an ultras stable/clean
adjustable linear power supply.  As I understand it, this is a unity
gain amp, so there should be little to no insertion loss or distro losses.

The distribution amp will be mounted near the devices such that amp to
device jumpers will all be < 1 meter/3.28 feet.  Likely a lot less.  ALL
Times N-connectors until reaching a connector TM doesn't make.

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 9/2/2017 3:26 PM, Bob kb8tq wrote:
> Hi
>
> A lot depends on what comes after the feed cable. The “disto amp” will 
> determine 
> a lot. You likely need 10 db of net gain in front of it to keep things 
> running ok. For an
> antenna that is *really* 26 db (as opposed to 26 db +/- 6 db), that would 
> come out to
> 16 db of feed line loss. This isn’t a terribly surprising outcome. The 
> antennas are designed
> for installations that run 150’ or more of coax ….
>
> Bob
>
>> On Sep 2, 2017, at 2:57 PM, Clay Autery <caut...@montac.com> wrote:
>>
>> Having decision-making problems for the materials for my GPS main
>> feedline.  Going to use a TM LMR stock, just can't decide how big to go
>> with it...
>>
>> 26 dB 5vdc antenna on top of a 38 foot mast.  Feed will come down the
>> inside/center of mast and exit near the bottom, thence routed through a
>> window and to the GPS distro amp. Antenna will feed GPSDO, NTP Server,
>> Blitzortung System Blue station, and one other device TBD.
>>
>> Just cannot decide how big to go with the antenna to distro amp feed... 
>> Assuming 50 feet total (38' mast + 12 feet to amp in shack) @ 1800 MHz
>> (closest to 1725 MHz), here are the losses from just this piece
>> (ignoring the amp to device jumpers):
>>
>> -240 = 5.45 dB XXX - too much loss?
>> -400 = 2.85 dB
>> -500 = 2.30 dB  XXX - too hard to find
>> -600 = 1.85 dB
>> -900 = 1.25 dB
>>
>> Money not necessarily a consideration as this is a short run for a
>> permanent installation.  Don't anticipate ever moving the GPS antenna to
>> the tower.
>> For 900 and likely 600, likely would not be able to do it in one piece
>> as routing it out of the mast and into the shack would get complicated. 
>> Would likely bring it out of the mast at the bottom with a right angle
>> connector, and then use a smaller diameter jumper for the last 12 feet.
>> 500 is pretty uncommon stock wise and it and connectors are harder to find.
>>
>> I already have the tooling for both 240 and 400... but I definitely
>> don't want to challenge ANY of the devices for signal gain.
>>
>> So it mostly boils down to easy vs. more effort ($$ aside)  Is it
>> worth the additional trouble to move from -400 to -600 or -900?  To NOT
>> lose the 1-1.6 dB additional?
>>
>> I'd appreciate your recommendation and reasoning. Thanks in advance!
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> -- 
>> __
>> Clay Autery, KY5G
>> MONTAC Enterprises
>> (318) 518-1389

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[time-nuts] GPS Antenna Feed Line Decision

[Clay Autery]

Having decision-making problems for the materials for my GPS main
feedline.  Going to use a TM LMR stock, just can't decide how big to go
with it...

26 dB 5vdc antenna on top of a 38 foot mast.  Feed will come down the
inside/center of mast and exit near the bottom, thence routed through a
window and to the GPS distro amp. Antenna will feed GPSDO, NTP Server,
Blitzortung System Blue station, and one other device TBD.

Just cannot decide how big to go with the antenna to distro amp feed... 
Assuming 50 feet total (38' mast + 12 feet to amp in shack) @ 1800 MHz
(closest to 1725 MHz), here are the losses from just this piece
(ignoring the amp to device jumpers):

-240 = 5.45 dB XXX - too much loss?
-400 = 2.85 dB
-500 = 2.30 dB  XXX - too hard to find
-600 = 1.85 dB
-900 = 1.25 dB

Money not necessarily a consideration as this is a short run for a
permanent installation.  Don't anticipate ever moving the GPS antenna to
the tower.
For 900 and likely 600, likely would not be able to do it in one piece
as routing it out of the mast and into the shack would get complicated. 
Would likely bring it out of the mast at the bottom with a right angle
connector, and then use a smaller diameter jumper for the last 12 feet.
500 is pretty uncommon stock wise and it and connectors are harder to find.

I already have the tooling for both 240 and 400... but I definitely
don't want to challenge ANY of the devices for signal gain.

So it mostly boils down to easy vs. more effort ($$ aside)  Is it
worth the additional trouble to move from -400 to -600 or -900?  To NOT
lose the 1-1.6 dB additional?

I'd appreciate your recommendation and reasoning. Thanks in advance!

73,

-- 
__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

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Re: [time-nuts] Sharing a GPS Antenna

[Clay Autery]

Thank you one and all for all the help and suggestions.

I've got an HP 58516A w/external DC input option on the way.  Now to
find a proper N-male terminator for the unused port, and start gathering
up cable and connectors to hook it all up.  

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 8/14/2017 9:22 AM, Clay Autery wrote:
> I'm toying with the idea of trying to share a single PCTEL GPS antenna
> three-ways.
>
>

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[time-nuts] Sharing a GPS Antenna

[Clay Autery]

I'm toying with the idea of trying to share a single PCTEL GPS antenna
three-ways.

I would prefer to NOT have to put up three different GPS antennas, have
three different feed lines coming into the shack, et al.

Need to feed:

1) GPSDO (currently a re-purposed Nortel unit) 5VDC spec antenna
2) NTP Stratum 1 server (Raspberry Pi-based) Pretty sure a 3.3VDC antenna
3) Blitzortung System BLUE lightning detection/reporting station. 3.3VDC
antenna

PCTEL GPS-TMG-HR-26N antenna is a 5VDC nominal (40mA @ 5VDC) HOWEVER the
spec sheet shows it functions from 3.3VDC to 12 VDC using a regulated
supply, and a "survival voltage" of 24 VDC.

Now, I have heard of folks running antennas that function on 12VDC on a
straight splitter with no DC blocking, but that doesn't "sit right" with
the OCD over-engineer part of me.

Here are the 3 options:

1) 3-way split, no DC blocking
2) 3-way split with DC blocking on 3.3VDC devices.
3) 3-way split with DC blocking on all three devices AND DC injection
after the split with a chosen regulated DC voltage based on best gain
vs. minimized noise.

Leaning toward Option #3 because I don't intend to use the old NORTEL
unit forever... and it's replacement may well NOT be a 5VDC device... 
And I suspect that efficiency drops rapidly below 5VDC.
That way, nothing changes from splitter to antenna regardless of what
device I put in place for GPSDO, NTP server, et al...

Cable run will be approximately 53 feet from devices to top of 38 foot
mast right outside the shack (top of pole used at one corner of 80m
loop; loop is suspended 10 foot laterally away from mast).
I know splitting the signal is likely NOT "time Nuts approved" approach,
but I'd like to try it anyway... and putting the antenna up high in an
all but unobstructed 360 degree view, and using a low-loss feed-line
should allow sufficient signal for all devices. (I hope)

Any suggestions for a 3 port DC blocked splitter, or other part(s) and
some part to use for DC injection?  I can handle the linear regulated
supply.  

Thanks!

-- 
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Clay Autery, KY5G
(318) 518-1389

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Re: [time-nuts] Can Lady Heather set PC time directly from a TrimbleThunderbolt?

[Clay Autery]

Doh!  Sorry David...  I actually found the Meinberg references from the
stasignal.eu page.  
Can't tell you the number of hours I've spent reading your page.

Working on both my GPSDO and NTP Stratum-1 solutions now... well,
they're "on the list".  

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 8/4/2017 9:50 AM, David J Taylor via time-nuts wrote:
> From: Clay Autery
>
> I use Meinberg's NTP for Windows... and their Monitor program.
>
> https://www.meinbergglobal.com/english/sw/ntp.htm
>
> 73,
> ===
>
> Clay,
>
> That's a Windows compile of the source I mentioned:
>
>>
>> https://www.eecis.udel.edu/~ntp/ntp_spool/ntp4/ntp-4.2/ntp-4.2.8p10.tar.gz
>>
>
> made into a rather nice installable package.  I also offer a guide to
> installing the software:
>
>  http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/setup.html
>
> and some recent binaries if all you need are updates (although the
> Meinberg installer also offers an update only mode):
>
>  http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/x86/index.html
>
> I have a PPS/GPS attached to several Windows-10 PCs for better
> timekeeping - down to the hundred-microsecond level:
>
>  http://www.satsignal.eu/mrtg/performance_ntp.php#windows-stratum-1
>
> 73,
> David GM8ARV

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Re: [time-nuts] Can Lady Heather set PC time directly from a TrimbleThunderbolt?

[Clay Autery]

I use Meinberg's NTP for Windows... and their Monitor program.

https://www.meinbergglobal.com/english/sw/ntp.htm

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 8/4/2017 2:10 AM, David J Taylor via time-nuts wrote:
> Apologies for the off list reply.
>
> The site www.davehart.net does not appear to be online any more. Would
> you know of an alternative source for the Dave Hart Windows port of
> NTP ?
>
> Cheers
>
> Arne
> 
>
> Arne,
>
> The official distribution contains a Windows port which compiles under
> a variety of MS Visual Studio versions.
>
>  https://www.eecis.udel.edu/~ntp/ntp_spool/ntp4/ntp-4.2/ntp-4.2.8p10.tar.gz
>
>  https://www.eecis.udel.edu/~ntp/ntp_spool/ntp4/ntp-dev/ntp-dev-4.3.93.tar.gz
>
>
> Many people have contributed to this port, including Dave Hart, of
> course.
>
> Whatever became of Dave?
>
> Cheers,
> David

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Re: [time-nuts] Machining some aluminum help!

[Clay Autery]

Kerosene as the cutting fluid and use Acetone to clean up the kerosene
afterwards.

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Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 7/29/2017 7:57 PM, Scott McGrath wrote:
> Kerosine is a better tap lube for Aluminum as it is more persistent and less 
> flammable
>
> Content by Scott
> Typos by Siri
>

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Re: [time-nuts] WWV 25 MHz antenna switched to circular polarization

[Clay Autery]

Prop shifted...  I tuned to it before I left for Home Depot at 1600 hrs
CST, and it was strong  It was GONE by 1830 hrs.

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MONTAC Enterprises
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On 7/16/2017 6:32 PM, paul swed wrote:
> Not hearing wwv on 25 MHz but 15 is fine. Using a beam and r1051 receiver.
> Maybe its not on for the weekend. Its a 2 KW signal so should be able to
> hear something.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
>

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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Clay Autery]

OK I was wrong...  Attila was right.  IF we are going to talk
alternatives and not simply bash PP cons, then I'm in.  Always up for a
bit of over-engineering.  

The speakon connectors are interesting...

Do you have a favorite series/model, Mike?

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 6/22/2017 7:40 AM, Mike Seguin wrote:
> For anything critical, I use these connector from the professional
> sound industry.
>
> http://www.neutrik.com/en/speakon/
>
> Mike
>

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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Clay Autery]

Not sure how "idiot proof" became a desirable engineering goal.

I've always favored allowing the natural self-cleaning of the gene pool
to progress normally.
We are protecting the species to death.

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 6/22/2017 3:07 AM, Bruce Griffiths wrote:
> They aren't idiot proof though.
>
> I've seen them assembled backwards so that the contact occurred on the flat 
> springs with predictable results. 
>
> Bruce
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Re: [time-nuts] Anderson PowerPole (was Charles Wenzel GPSDO)

[Clay Autery]

TVB for the win!  

Can we please let it go here?
Do we REALLY need to have the same PPcon discussion yet again?

I vote no.

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 6/22/2017 2:19 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote:
> Wes, Don,
>
> I am quite surprised at the negative reaction to Anderson Power Pole 
> connectors. I have found them the best DC connector out there. I have used 
> them for a decade or two for all my DC feeds and have never had a problem: in 
> my home lab, my car, even for my laptop charger. They are inexpensive, 
> reliable, genderless (hermaphroditic) and easy to crimp. I use them for my 
> 5V, 12V, 24V, and 48V supplies as well as my DC backup systems.
>
> What on earth are you doing with them that causes them to disconnect? I mean, 
> they are not meant for towing or lifting or rappelling. For critical 
> applications there is a plastic gizmo that keeps them mated; or just use a 
> square or figure 8 knot on the cables.
>
> /tvb
>
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 4815 Vector Impedance Analyzer repair

[Clay Autery]

There's a guy on eBay who sells HP stuff (and other) who does certified
calibrations and repairs of HP stuff...  can't be that hard to find...

KN5U is his eBay ID (and call sign?)  He calibrated my HP freq counter
before sending it to me after I won it on one of his auctions...

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 6/20/2017 1:51 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
> I have a non-functional HP 4815, don't know if it
> is the probe or the box.  A long time ago, there
> was a fellow named George Standford (something like
> that) who repaired these.  My old contact information
> for him is no good.  Does anyone know if he is still
> in business, or if there is any other place that
> repairs these things?
>
> Rick N6RK
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS Antenna on Tower.

[Clay Autery]

I thought there was kind of a rule about EXCLUDING sats on or near the
horizon...

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 6/20/2017 8:27 AM, "Björn Gabrielsson" wrote:
> Hi Thorbjörn,
>
> To bad this particula antenna has surrounding buildings (and maybe trees)
> that mask low elevation satellites.
>
> --
>
>Björn
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS Antenna on Tower.

[Clay Autery]

LOL!!!  My first reaction to reading the drill for sub-subterranean GPS
mast was...

Wonder if I could borrow Shappell's little drilling rig to do THAT hole
and the vertical wells for the geo-thermal cooling loops?

Followed closely by...

Wonder what kind and number of Sorbothan, et al. dampers required to
damp the locally generated vibrations that would resonate in that length
"tuning fork" hooked to the bedrock?

  Even we non-scientists on this reflector reserve the right
to be equally nutty.  

PS - I have a master map of my back yard in order to manage the
available square footage and its use and to de-conflict the
sub-subterranean "air space".

______
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 6/20/2017 7:21 AM, jimlux wrote:
> On 6/20/17 5:11 AM, Didier Juges wrote:
>> If that is not time-nutty, I do not know what will :)
>
> if you're a "real time-nut" you drill your own holes - you buy a
> surplus drilling rig, refurbish it, figure out how to work it (maybe
> there's a "drill-nuts" list?), etc.
>
> But at least the station will probably fit in your backyard.
>

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Re: [time-nuts] Halcyon OFS

[Clay Autery]

I've learned NEVER to start a new task on "Friday afternoon", unless I
want to work on that task thru Monday morning.  

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On 6/20/2017 3:36 AM, Stephen Tompsett wrote:
> It's a Friday afternoon job!
WOW!!!  That was a LOT to trim off!!!
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Re: [time-nuts] HP5090A Off Air Standard Receiver

[Clay Autery]

And Attila wins the reflector for today!!!  

__
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On 6/19/2017 2:29 AM, Attila Kinali wrote:
>
> You aren't seriously asking a time-nut what the point of doing something is,
> are you? We are doing what we do because we think it's fun. Because we
> might learn something. Or because we think it would be cool. Not everything
> needs to have a rational goal judged by price vs. performance, does it?
>
>   Attila Kinali
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Hints on PPS Buffer design...

[Clay Autery]

On 6/17/2017 4:01 AM, Hal Murray wrote:
>> Q3: It's only a 1Hz frequency, but is low inductance a desired trait of the
>> chosen resistors? 
> It's a 1 Hz repetition rate, but the bandwidth depends upon the rise time.  
> If the rise time is ballpark of 1 ns, the bandwidth will be ballpark of 1 
> GHz.  So, yes, you want low inductance.  That includes the power to the chip 
> as well as the resistors.  Surface mount is your friend.  So are ground/power 
> planes.
>
> How good is your scope?
Not nearly good enough, as I don't have one.  Have to borrow.  Thank you
for pointing me in the right direction on bandwidth...


>> Q:  Why does everyone pick FIVE x 100 Ohm resistors?  That's 20 Ohm out, not
>> counting the gate impedance on the hex inverter... 
> The FIVE is 6-1.  The one is for isolation.  The 5 is the rest of the 
> package. You might as well use them all as drivers.  You don't want to use 
> them for another signal (even if it is supposed to be identical) or you will 
> get minor crosstalk when you do things like plug or unplug a cable.
Yes, I got this part... At least I generally get something.  ;-)
> I don't know why you are saying "gate impedance".  That's over on the input 
> side.  I would have said "output impedance" or "driver impedance" of the chip 
> or section.
Apologize, was parroting the term used in the archived Time Nuts post I
found referencing the need to address the "driver impedance" in
selecting series resistors when trying to set the output impedance.

> I'm not sure why they picked 100 ohms.  Assume the net source impedance is 25 
> ohms.  Suppose the far end is terminated with 50 ohms.  There won't be any 
> reflections so the source value doesn't matter.  25 ohms will provide a 
> higher voltage at the far end than 50.  If you have a CMOS driver and a CMOS 
> receiver, 1/2 the voltage at the receiver is nasty.  It might be OK if you 
> have HT type receivers.
OK... I'll have to try and study this some more, because for a simpleton
like me, and impedance mismatch between the PPS out port on the Nortel
and the device to which it is connected of 25:50 ohms, reduces to 1:2,
flipped around is a 2:1 VSWR, which means a fairly significant power
loss...  Maybe it doesn't matter much with a short cable.. but the cable
is also tiny/lossy.

> I would suggest a bit of lab work.  What are you going to use on the far end?
> Lots of gear has 1000 ohms rather than 50 so a 50 ohm source impedance takes 
> care of the reflections and leaves (almost) the full voltage at the receiver.
Yes, I intend to do extensive testing.  I was just trying to trim away
some of the waste up front... time, materials, et al.  :-)
>> thus I can only include that I need to use something slightly more than 250
>> Ohms on a 5 gate parallel setup)
> More than 250 divided by 5 and rounded up a bit for the output impedance of 
> the chip will be more than 50 ohms.  I'd do some experiments.

Yep... gonna need some more instruments asap...  I may just have to wing
it and accept "good enough" until I can round up the rest of the
required instrumentation.

Thanks for your assistance and not brutalizing me for my lack of
knowledge.  I'm trying to learn.

 - C. Autery
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[time-nuts] Hints on PPS Buffer design...

[Clay Autery]

Trying to pin down a reasonably optimal buffer design for bringing PPS
out...  I've looked at all the references, like the i3detroit.org site
et al.

Of the few schematics and devices I see, most are using a hex inverter
(1 into the other 5 paralleled with series resistors for "balance" and
setting output impedance?

Q:  Why does everyone pick FIVE x 100 Ohm resistors?  That's 20 Ohm out,
not counting the gate impedance on the hex inverter...

Q2:  Anyone have a reference to the math for choosing the resistors for
setting a 50 Ohm nominal out INCLUDING determining and including the
gate impedance of a particular part.
(Right now, I am going to use the TI SN74AC04 Hex Inverter)  I saw a
refernence in the archive referring to a 4 gate setup using a different
part needing 187 Ohm resistors... thus I can only include that I need to
use something slightly more than 250 Ohms on a 5 gate parallel setup)

Q3: It's only a 1Hz frequency, but is low inductance a desired trait of
the chosen resistors?

I'm sure there are others...

Thanks!

-- 
__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

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Re: [time-nuts] GPS splitter

[Clay Autery]

This brings up some interesting questions:

If sharing an active GPS antenna, do you have to DC block all but one
receiver port to prevent multiple receivers trying to supply current to
the antenna?

On say a 26dB antenna (ignoring line loss, power divider insertion loss,
et al), what is the effective gain to each receiver?  (Sorry, having a
senior moment)

Should ALL unused ports have 50 ohm +/- 0j terminators on them?  I
assume so...  Thus, it would be "better" to always use the divider with
the minimum required ports?

I am assuming since this is a receive only situation, it will follow
approximately the same rules of physics that dealing with satellite
antenna installations.

I would LIKE to share one PC-TEL 26dB GPS antenna mounted at the top of
my 38 foot horiz.loop mast right  at the shack entrance, using
LMR-400-DB from antenna to Narda 2-way and thence to my current hacked
Nortel GPSDO and my soon to be complete RPi 2/3 w/ Adafruit Ultimate GPS
Hat NTP Server.  On that mast, the antenna would have a near 360 degree
view of the sky completely unobstructed.  (Eventually, I expect both of
those units to be replaced with commercial units).

I'm assuming that I DC block whichever unit is capable of providing the
LEAST current at 5VDC...  I suspect the Nortel unit can supply more
current than the RPi, but that's not a guarantee...  And I guess I could
block/turn off DC delivery on BOTH units and add a voltage adjustable,
current limiting DC injection unit into the line.

Thanks.

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 6/16/2017 7:26 PM, Tim Lister wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Gregory Beat <w...@icloud.com> wrote:
>> I have reached the point that I need a 4-port splitter for my GPS antenna 
>> (outdoor 5 volt).  Any recommendations of models (HP/Symmertricom/Microsemi) 
>> to acquire OR to avoid??
> As we recommended to me when I asked a similar question, the Narda
> 4372A-4 was a brand I had not heard of before and didn't come up in
> 'gps splitter' searches. I got one on ebay for $24 plus a bit extra
> for DC blocks on the n-1 other ports and it seems to work well and it
> was handy to have an SMA-based solution as most of the gps receivers
> and the antenna pucks seem to use SMA. This meant I only needed 1 N to
> SMA converter cable for an external antenna (which has yet to be
> externalized...). I found it smaller in real life  than it looks in a
> lot of the pictures, about the size of a modern smartphone but about
> double or more the thickness (the connectors are on the ends).
>
>> greg
>> ---
> Cheers,
> Tim
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Re: [time-nuts] The clocks at Windsor Castle, UK

[Clay Autery]

Precisely...

__
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On 6/16/2017 3:08 PM, William H. Fite wrote:
> Jerry, what you're missing is the culture of the Castle. Having a
> clock--let alone a bunch of clocks--stopped for an hour simply would not be
> acceptable.
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Re: [time-nuts] Dropbox is cool, but...

[Clay Autery]

Yep, I can see where that would be an issue  Use an un-synced
directory/folder and them back up to dropbox off-air if required...  :)

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MONTAC Enterprises
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On 2/5/2017 2:17 PM, John Ackermann N8UR wrote:
> So I was clever and decided to log some PPS data to a folder within my
> "Dropbox" folder.  Strange results followed... the whole system just
> bogged down, and even fairly slow serial data dropped characters.
>
> It turns out that the culprit was the Dropbox daemon continuously
> trying to sync the file as it changed every second.  It didn't
> manifest as CPU overload or anything obvious; the problem was
> apparently thrashing in the I/O system.  Once I started dumping the
> data to a "normal" directory, the problem went away.  (This was on
> Linux, by the way).
>
> So, a lesson learned -- don't stream unbuffered data, even at a low
> rate, into a sync'd folder!
>
> John
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Re: [time-nuts] What's the best Windows 10 ntp client?

[Clay Autery]

PS

I am running BOTH the Meinberg ntpd AND the monitor...

My fault for allowing you to make me doubt myself  .

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MONTAC Enterprises
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On 9/2/2016 8:09 AM, Martin Burnicki wrote:
> Clay Autery wrote:
>> NTP Time Server Monitor by Meinberg.
> Sorry, no.
>
> As the name suggests this is only a *monitor* program for NTP service
> (ntpd). You can use it to start/stop the NTP service, have a graphical
> presentation of the loopstats files optionally generated by ntpd, etc.
>
> So this is a nice optional addon for ntpd, but you need ntpd to actually
> synchronize the system time. The monitor program doesn't do that.
>
> Martin (working @meinberg)
>

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Re: [time-nuts] What's the best Windows 10 ntp client?

[Clay Autery]

Well then the ntpd program written into MY Windows CONTROLLED by the
program represented in the attached image

It says it is a Monitor, but it ALSO controls how NTP works on MY machine...

It keeps my computer as accurate as can be expected considering I'm
using remote server sources and wireless connection to the internet...

I'll worry about compiling my own ntpd, et al. once I decide to run my
own stratum 1 server...

I'm pretty consistently within +/- 4 milliseconds at any given time... 
usually < +/- 2 ms.

__
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MONTAC Enterprises
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On 9/2/2016 8:09 AM, Martin Burnicki wrote:
> Clay Autery wrote:
>> NTP Time Server Monitor by Meinberg.
> Sorry, no.
>
> As the name suggests this is only a *monitor* program for NTP service
> (ntpd). You can use it to start/stop the NTP service, have a graphical
> presentation of the loopstats files optionally generated by ntpd, etc.
>
> So this is a nice optional addon for ntpd, but you need ntpd to actually
> synchronize the system time. The monitor program doesn't do that.
>
> Martin (working @meinberg)

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Re: [time-nuts] What's the best Windows 10 ntp client?

[Clay Autery]

NTP Time Server Monitor by Meinberg.

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On 9/2/2016 1:29 AM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote:
> At my amateur radio club we have Internet access via a WiFi dongle with a Pay 
> As You Go card. A Windows 10 PC is only powered up while we are there, so on 
> around 2-4 hours per week. 
>
> Does anyone have any thoughts on what might be the most suitable software to 
> run on our Windows 10 PC to set the time correct? 
>
> Someone installed "Dimension 4" 
>
> http://www.thinkman.com/dimension4/t
>
> As far as I can see, this takes the time from one single NTP server, which I 
> believe is not a good idea.  However,  given we only run the PC on 2-4 hours 
> per week,  maybe no ntp client will work well,  but I would have thought 
> using multiple servers being better than one. 
>
> I am wondering if anyone has any better suggestions for software. .
>
> Dave.
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Re: [time-nuts] Questions on Nortel Trimble NTBW50AA GPSTM

[Clay Autery]

Just picked up a 48VDC via suggestion from Mr. Sims from BG Micro, as he
was correct...  It will function on 24VDC or -48VDC and I have to put
another connector on it and/or add a power receptacle on the Nortel box
(just reverse the polarity on one or the other).

I agree that having Multiple power supplies is a good idea...

Just want to make sure that any power supply I add "permanently" is
QUIET...  Just got rid of a noisy switcher that almost drove me bat-crap
crazy before I ID'd it was the culprit.

I test everything now before I use it...  Noisy stuff goes in the trash
on the swap table.

Any hints on a specific 24 VDC supply that is quiet without Herculean
efforts at adding filtering/chokes, et al...

73,

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MONTAC Enterprises
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On 8/10/2016 4:59 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
> Hi
>
> You can get a very good industrial 24V supply for < $40 (and maybe < $20) 
> brand 
> new from distribution. Comes with a 3 year warranty and has all the various 
> protection 
> things you would want on a supply. My claim is that you will always have 12V, 
> 24V 
> and 48V “stuff” running around. Having a bulk supply for each makes things a 
> lot easier. 
>
> Bob
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[time-nuts] Questions on Nortel Trimble NTBW50AA GPSTM

[Clay Autery]

1) Need a 24 VDC power supply.  Am considering just buying an Astron
VLS-35M Adjustable Voltage/Current supply (5-32V/1.5A to limit) since I
don't own a variable power supply yet, this is a linear, and the same
size package as my RS-70M.  I can worry about a dedicated supply later
if I decide to keep this GPSTM after I finish modding/testing it.

Anyone have any recommendations to the contrary?  Why?

2) Need to bring the PPS out from the TP in this article: 
https://www.i3detroit.org/wiki/Nortel_GPSTM  The article shows a buffer
circuit being used to accomplish this...  Need help locating a datasheet
on the Motorola chip used...  It's obsolete and I need to find a pin
compatible replacement...

Or, I need to find another buffer schematic/plan,

Or, alternatively  has anyone ever tried pulling the 1pps out and
hooking it to the 9.8 MHz driver (severing the drive line to it and
jumpering in the 1pps)?  The 9.8MHz and the 10MHz signal out ports SEEM
to use identical driver/buffer circuits on this board...  Seems like a
possibility...

Preferably, I find the Motorola chip, copy the buffer circuit and move
on... 

I'm pretty new at this, so any help is appreciated, and not slapping me
about for "not knowing" stuff is greatly appreciated!  :)

Sincerely,

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Re: [time-nuts] Venus838LPx-T preliminary testing

[Clay Autery]

Wow... fast turn-around...

I might grab one of these for my NTP project for my home network...

Reckon they'd integrate with the Rasberry-Pi and other similar?

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On 8/8/2016 5:13 PM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts wrote:
>> On Aug 5, 2016, at 8:13 PM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I’m going to make a breakout board for these and list them on Tindie next 
>> week, for those who wish to play with them.
> As promised, the breakout boards are now available.
>
> https://www.tindie.com/products/nsayer/skytraq-venus838lpx-t-timing-gps-module-breakout/
>
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna selection - lightning

[Clay Autery]

Is the 1987 version the latest issue available for free?

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On 8/6/2016 8:46 AM, Glenn Little WB4UIV wrote:
> Cone of protection is addressed.
> Volume 1 is theory, volume 2 is application.
> The military requires 1/0 cable exterior to the building, commercial
> practice is #2AWG.
> Ground rod spacing is address.
>
> Overall a very good reference based on practical experience and backed
> with theory.
>
> 73
> Glenn
> WB4UIV
>
>
> On 8/6/2016 1:19 AM, Bill Hawkins wrote:
>> Hi Glenn,
>>
>> Your advice is excellent.
>>
>> Seems like every time we have a lightning discussion there is no
>> distinction between an EMP and a direct hit.
>>
>> I started work in 1960 at a blasting cap plant in upstate New York. The
>> powder magazines were protected by tall masts according to the "cone of
>> protection" theory. The angle of the cone varied between 45 and 60
>> degrees. The earth ground resistance of the mast was measured by a
>> hand-cranked device that looked like a megger but read earth resistance
>> to less than a tenth of an ohm. Had the lightning but never lost a
>> magazine.
>>
>> You say MIL-HDBK-419 covers EMP. Does it also cover cone of protection
>> for direct hits?
>>
>> I was fascinated by the idea that a simple capacitor discharge into an
>> inductor could be greatly enhanced by reducing the diameter of the
>> inductor with a conventional explosive, described in one of Stephen
>> Coonts' books, if my failing memory recalls correctly. And so I learned
>> what I could about EMP. Never built anything, just interesting behavior.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Bill Hawkins
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Glenn
>> Little WB4UIV
>> Sent: Friday, August 05, 2016 9:47 PM
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts]GPS antenna selection - lightning
>>
>> A very good reference for EMP protection is MIL-HDBK-419.
>> This is downloadable for a number of web sources.
>> It is about 600 pages and is in two volumes.
>> This discusses a number of different sources of EMP such as nuclear and
>> lightning.
>> A lot is for protection of military industrial complexes, but, there is
>> a lot that pertains to us.
>>
>> I worked for a military complex that assembled nuclear missiles.
>> The site was built to this handbook specs.
>> We had no EMP related damage at the site.
>>
>> Number one rule, bond all grounds together. If something on your
>> property takes a hit, you want everything on your property to elevate to
>> the same level and the same rate.
>> If you have multiple, non bonded grounds, there is a different reference
>> for each ground. This is a major source for disaster.
>>
>> I spent seven years in lightning mitigation. I was told by professionals
>> that I was wrong. The third time that their tower was struck, destroying
>> all of the lights and attached equipment, they followed my
>> recommendations. That was ten years ago. The three hits were within four
>> months of each other. The site has been free of destructive hits since
>> then.
>>
>> 73
>> Glenn
>> WB4UIV
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

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Re: [time-nuts] Venus838LPx-T opinions?

[Clay Autery]

LOL!

Thank so much for the history of how you got trapped... errr started in
the Lady Heather software project.  :)

Questions still remain:

1) What is the link to the "official" Lady Heather site?
2) How/where can we shoot a donation to say "Thanks!"?

73,

______
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 7/24/2016 2:03 PM, Mark Sims wrote:
> I am the creator author of Lady Heather.   The code in Lady Heather started 
> out from a program that I wrote  to control Magellan GPS receivers (like the 
> OEM-5000) back in days of the first Gulf War... it ran under DOS as a text 
> mode only program. 
>
> When TAPR did their group buy for Trimble Thunderbolts I bought one and 
> modified tcode to work with it.   Again, basically a DOS program that could 
> run under Windows and do some plotting.   The idea was to keep it simple and 
> had a lot of kludges to minimize memory usages so it could run on low-end 
> discarded machines.
>
> John Miles added support for running properly under Windows using his WIN_VFX 
> library.   Then the fun began and things began to get out of control.   Lots 
> of new features,  silly features,  useful features, not so useful features 
> were added.   There is still code/compile options in there for a DOS 
> compatible compile, but too much has been added for that to ever work again...
>
> A few months back, I added support for working under Linux using X11 as the 
> graphics / keyboard interface.  That code is what it in the Rev 4.0 beta that 
> is on John's web site.
>
> Lately I have been adding support for working with receivers other than those 
> in the Trimble Thunderbolt family.   It is now working with Trimble, 
> Motorola, Jupiter, Sirf, Venus, Ublox, NMEA, SCPI (Z38xx), UCCM, and a few 
> others.  It also works with GPSD (a sort of universal GPS receiver interface 
> for Linux).  It can also work as a system clock display without a GPS 
> receiver connected.
>
> I hope to have the newest code finalized and released shortly... I'm waiting 
> on a couple of new receivers to come in.
>
> Lady Heather is free, open-source software now released under the very 
> permissive MIT license...
> --
>> Mark, what's your official link to Lady Heather and how do we donate to 
>> the 

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Re: [time-nuts] Venus838LPx-T opinions?

[Clay Autery]

AWESOME!!!  :)

Added to project list!!!

Mark, what's your official link to Lady Heather and how do we donate
to the cause?

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
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On 7/24/2016 12:23 AM, Mark Sims wrote:
> Lady Heather now works with Venus receivers in mixed binary / NMEA mode.   So 
> now it can display the sky view data (via NMEA sentences) while running in 
> Venus binary mode.  I also added support for parsing the $PSTI NMEA sentence 
> that contains the sawtooth correction info.   Why somebody thought it was a 
> good idea to not include that info in the binary messages boggles the mind... 
>  I hate having my mind boggled.
>
> I guess I may have to buy one of the Navspark timing receivers... 
>   

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Re: [time-nuts] Venus838LPx-T opinions?

[Clay Autery]

Definitely the assembled "breakout board+".  Maybe I'll wait til Lady
Heather has a more complete communication set with this part...

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MONTAC Enterprises
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On 7/22/2016 10:08 PM, Mark Sims wrote:
> I'd get the $80 assembled unit from Navspark first and see if it works for 
> you.  If not, you won't have wasted your time and money on doing a PC board.  
>  
>
> Lady Heather can now talk to Venus receivers in binary mode (also handles 
> generic NMEA receivers).   I don't have a Venus timing receiver so I have not 
> tested operation of the timing receiver related messages.   One VERY vexing 
> issue with Venus binary mode is there is NO binary message that provides "sky 
> view" info about satellite positions and signal levels.  You can only get 
> that in NMEA mode.  
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Re: [time-nuts] Venus838LPx-T opinions?

[Clay Autery]

Looks like a module I might want to start with... No way I'd want to
start with the chip...

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On 7/22/2016 8:16 PM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts wrote:
> Looks like the bare modules are available for $25 (FOB Taiwan) each MQ:4. 
> Eminently reasonable. I am probably going to get 4 to start with and make an 
> LGA breakout board for myself and do some experimenting with them.
>
> The tough part for me is going to be upgrading the controller to the 
> ATMega328PB to get enough flash space to add the sawtooth compensation 
> handling stuff. But even if I completely ignore the NMEA output of the 
> module, it'll be worth it to get timing firmware with survey capabilities. 
> I'm quite excited. 
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jul 22, 2016, at 3:21 PM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Anybody played with one of these? 
>> http://www.skytraq.com.tw/products/products-Timing%20Module.html
>>
>> It looks promising for GPSDO designers. It has a survey mode (looks to be 
>> automatic) and one of the NMEA messages reports quantization error.
>>
>> The downsides I’ve identified so far are that it’s an LGA69, so that’ll be… 
>> exciting… And I don’t have any pricing, availability or minimum order 
>> information at the moment.

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Re: [time-nuts] GPS for Nixie Clock

[Clay Autery]

I would run a test and track turn ON/OFF times against varying
intensities to get enough data to chart/graph.  THEN, you can make
informed decisions about intensity level, whether you want to consider
turn off time, etc.

This could become quite voluminous... data acquisition-wise and just the
sheer amount of information.

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On 7/16/2016 2:08 AM, John Swenson wrote:
> Yes, I was planning on using a high speed photo diode to actually
> measure the turn on time of the digits. I hadn't thought of the turn
> OFF time, do I want the old digit to be turned off before the new one
> lights up or for them to be overlapping? I have been thinking about
> what threshold to use, 50% intensity is probably about as good as any
> other. It might turn out that different digits turn on differently, so
> I will have to calibrate each one separately.
>
> John S.
>
>
>
> On 7/15/2016 4:57 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
>> If you are going for the sawtooth correction then you also might want
>> to add some kind of forward correction for the delay in the tubes and
>> the drivers.  Your MOSFET gates the nixie tube itself have capacitance
>> and switch times that will delay the switch of the display and of
>> course the digital processing in the FPGA takes some number of
>> nanoseconds.   I think you might need some way to actually measure all
>> of these as any estimate might be your single largest source of error.
>>I don't know how to measure it.  Perhaps a pair of phototransistors
>> one aimed at a PPS LED and one at the nixie tube.  This unknown delay
>> is likely larger than the sawtooth correction.  at this level you
>> might have to define when a digital is actually "on" as there is
>> likely some thermal constant and the numbers don't light up instantly.
>>I'd bet the turn on time is larger than the sawtooth correction.
>> What is "on"?  50% brightness?
>>
>> It gets hard when you start caring about tiny increments of time.   I
>> have a mechanical clock, about 14 inches in diameter that is slaved to
>> NTP.  The designer took a big short cut.  Time is kept internally at
>> the hundreds of microseconds level and the pulse goes off to the
>> stepper motor at the correct time well at least at the 100+
>> microsecond level but the hands don't move instantly because (1)
>> slight gear backlash and (2) they have mass.  I can actually SEE the
>> delay with my eyes.  The designer must have forgotten that a "move"
>> command requires some milliseconds to execute (I'm thinking about
>> 100ms or more).  I don't care but it's fun to think the actual display
>> is 10,000 times less accurate then the internal timekeeping.   You
>> don't want this to happen to happen nixie clock
>>
>> BTW I did not build my mechanical NTP clock.  I got a free broken
>> clock and had to fix it, cut and soldered a few traces, fixed some
>> cracked parts and learned how it works in the process.
>>
>> Finding which PPS to use is easy, you can do that by eye.  Compare the
>> serial data stream to the time on your NTP sync'd computer.  A full
>> second off problem is easy to see.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 3:53 PM, John Swenson
>> <johnswens...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Yep, that is theory. The fun part is going to be getting the right
>>> edge for
>>> the new PPS. Half the time it will the one before the PPS from the
>>> GPS and
>>> half the time it will be the one after. From the sawtooth data I
>>> should be
>>> able to figure out which is which to align it to the new LO.
>>>
>>> John S.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/15/2016 3:17 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> If you are going to go “full boat” then you probably should get the
>>>> sawtooth correction out of
>>>> the GPS and feed that into your control loop. You will need
>>>> something you
>>>> can run out at the
>>>> “few hundred seconds” sort of time constant.
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS for Nixie Clock

[Clay Autery]

Holy crap there's a lot of information there...   I'll be on that site
for a while!

Thanks!

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On 7/16/2016 2:06 AM, David J Taylor wrote:
>
> If you don't mind an LCD display instead of Nixies .
>
>  http://www.satsignal.eu/raspberry-pi/DigitalClock.html
>
> 73,
> David GM8ARV

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Re: [time-nuts] GPS for Nixie Clock

[Clay Autery]

Cesium this IS time nuts after all...  

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On 7/15/2016 8:55 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
> Hi
>
> As this is going, it’s not a clock at all. It’s a GPSDO with a Nixie display 
> on it
> and now with IRIG timing output. 
>
> Do we put an Rb in it or go straight to a Cesium?
>
> Bob
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS for Nixie Clock

[Clay Autery]

I, for one, will be following your progress...

I think it would be cool as heck having an ultra-accurate clock with a
Nixie display...  It'd be cool to make it flexible enough to output the
time sync to other equipment...

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On 7/15/2016 4:25 PM, John Swenson wrote:
> As I mentioned in a previous post, this Nixie retrofit is not about
> "good enough", it is a learning experience for me to understand the
> ins and outs of GPS based time, so it is going to do all kinds of
> things that are not NEEDED but that is the fun of the project.
>
> I'm also looking into designing my own patch antennas to get the best
> sensitivity in the restricted confines of the block of wood, yet
> something else to learn about.
>
> That's what this is all about.
>
> I yes I probably will do an FPGA controlled PLL for the fun of it (I
> have done that before).
>
> John S.
>

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[time-nuts] Frequency Counter....

[Clay Autery]

Looking for a good Freq Counter...  looking at the HP 5386A with Option 4.

Are there better choices in the price range of these used?

Looks like this one meets and exceeds my current needs


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Re: [time-nuts] HP5370 power supply measurements

[Clay Autery]

Every box I own has AT LEAST one temp sensor in it...  I often add 10 or
more when redesigning the thermal control for a piece of equipment

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On 7/15/2016 1:40 PM, Orin Eman wrote:
>
> In a given instrument, you may get away with the quieter fan, but how would
> you tell other than putting a thermometer inside and making a before/after
> comparison?
>
> Orin.

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Re: [time-nuts] HP5370 power supply measurements

[Clay Autery]

Actually, the lion's share of noise heard from a fan is NOT the moving
air, but the turbulence over the fan blades... This is a VERY large
topic that I don't want to bore the list with.

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On 7/15/2016 8:17 AM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) wrote:
>
> I often here of people replacing fans with quiter ones, but I suspect that
> all they really do is reduce the airflow. I believe that most of the noise
> one hears is the movement of the air.  From what I have read, sleve bearing
> fans make a bit less noise than ball bearings fans.  However,  although the
> MTBF of both types is similar at 20 degree C, the MTBF of sleve bearing
> fans decreases quite a bit with only a modest increase in temperature.
>
> Dave.

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Re: [time-nuts] The home time-lab

[Clay Autery]

That has been my experience over the last 25 odd years...

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On 7/8/2016 5:37 PM, Charles Steinmetz wrote:
> The usual problem is glitches on the on-site AC mains supply, and
> properly designed and installed on-line UPS systems do a very fine job
> of cleaning that up.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Charles
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Re: [time-nuts] The home time-lab

[Clay Autery]

You do what you can do...

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On 7/8/2016 1:27 PM, Tim Shoppa wrote:
> Everyone else is talking as if these blips can be protected from, by having
> a UPS supplying your precious lab equipment.
>
> I strongly disagree.
>
> Tim N3QE
>
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Re: [time-nuts] The home time-lab

[Clay Autery]

Bob,

I'm new to the time nut thing...  What is the 5370?  Full nomenclature
so I can read up on it.

I don't know how much power it draws, but I've ted to run all my HAM
(including the amps), networking, home theater, lab equipment, et al.
from appropriately sized batteries and charge the batts with linears. 
Mostly going to use LFP batts for the longevity and cell balancing.

I don't like weird crap creeping into my data either... be it instrument
or radio...  I'm building a "quiet zone".

Did the survey on JUST my house and found 53 SMPSs, and a bunch of AC
electrical wiring "mistakes", mostly grounds terminated at both ends, et
al...

73,

______
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On 7/8/2016 12:46 AM, Bob Stewart wrote:
> Hi Clay,
> Powering the GPSDOs isn't a problem.  They run on 12V and draw less than an 
> amp.  The problem is that 5370 is a big hulking power sink and it appears 
> that when it's hit with a spike it lets its displeasure be known in the data.
> Bob 
> ---
> GFS GPSDO list:
> groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/GFS-GPSDOs/info
>
>   From: Clay Autery <caut...@montac.com>
>  To: time-nuts@febo.com 
>  Sent: Thursday, July 7, 2016 10:09 PM
>  Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The home time-lab
>
> You'd be better off running the GPSDO off a LiFePO battery and float
> charge the battery with an appropriately constructed linear PS...
>
> ALL but the most expensive UPSs use switch-mode power supplies... to
> power the load when on mains.
>
> __
> Clay Autery, KY5G
> MONTAC Enterprises
> (318) 518-1389
>
> On 7/7/2016 7:44 PM, Bob Stewart wrote:
>> I hope this isn't too far off topic, as this is having a big impact on my 
>> testing.
>>
>> I decided to run an A/B test on one of my GPSDOs: comparing the phase of the 
>> two 10MHz output channels.  In the middle of the night, there was a long 
>> series of 35ns pops in the phase data.  Strangely enough, there was nothing 
>> in the data collected directly from the unit involved.  The preceding two 
>> days we had had a number of switching transients where the lights blinked 
>> but nothing shut down.  So, putting one and one together, I suspect that a 
>> fair percentage of the strange results I've been getting has been power-grid 
>> related.
>> So, what to do?  I've been looking at UPS devices, and I don't even 
>> understand enough to waste my money on a bad one.  The two big questions 
>> seem to be "on-line" and "sine wave".  Make that three: can I trust the mfgs 
>> claims?  Is there something affordable that could run a pair of 5370s and 
>> maybe another 50W worth of DUTs for up to an hour or two and not be prey to 
>> power-line transients?  Or would it be more cost effective to somehow 
>> monitor the power line for spikes or phase jumps and blow off tests or cut 
>> out the offending data?  From time to time we get a thread on power-line 
>> nuts.  Should I have been paying more attention?
>>
>> Bob - AE6RV
>>   
>> ---
>> GFS GPSDO list:
>> groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/GFS-GPSDOs/info
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>
>   
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Re: [time-nuts] The home time-lab

[Clay Autery]

You'd be better off running the GPSDO off a LiFePO battery and float
charge the battery with an appropriately constructed linear PS...

ALL but the most expensive UPSs use switch-mode power supplies... to
power the load when on mains.

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 7/7/2016 7:44 PM, Bob Stewart wrote:
> I hope this isn't too far off topic, as this is having a big impact on my 
> testing.
>
> I decided to run an A/B test on one of my GPSDOs: comparing the phase of the 
> two 10MHz output channels.  In the middle of the night, there was a long 
> series of 35ns pops in the phase data.  Strangely enough, there was nothing 
> in the data collected directly from the unit involved.  The preceding two 
> days we had had a number of switching transients where the lights blinked but 
> nothing shut down.  So, putting one and one together, I suspect that a fair 
> percentage of the strange results I've been getting has been power-grid 
> related.
> So, what to do?  I've been looking at UPS devices, and I don't even 
> understand enough to waste my money on a bad one.  The two big questions seem 
> to be "on-line" and "sine wave".  Make that three: can I trust the mfgs 
> claims?  Is there something affordable that could run a pair of 5370s and 
> maybe another 50W worth of DUTs for up to an hour or two and not be prey to 
> power-line transients?  Or would it be more cost effective to somehow monitor 
> the power line for spikes or phase jumps and blow off tests or cut out the 
> offending data?  From time to time we get a thread on power-line nuts.  
> Should I have been paying more attention?
>
> Bob - AE6RV
>  
> ---
> GFS GPSDO list:
> groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/GFS-GPSDOs/info
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Looking for a Linux user with a Z3816/Z3815/HP5xxxx

[Clay Autery]

Just put the file on a server somewhere and email the link...  even drop
box...  It's a waste to send files through email anyway...  wastes tons
of bandwidth sending a file through an unnecessary number of interim
steps...

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 5/23/2016 6:22 PM, Mark Sims wrote:
> Alas,  it has become very hard to email an EXE file.  The ISPs are on to all 
> the tricks... zipping them,  renaming them, etc no longer work.  The net has 
> become a real nanny about protecting people from potential malware, etc.   
> Things like EXE files disguised as PDF file were/are a real threat and email 
> servers have gotten rather draconian about what they let through.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] RG6 or LMR400 for GPS Antenna (Symmetricom 58532A and T-bolt)

[Clay Autery]

Yup... layers = longevity

3M self-fusing rubber
comformal coating
3M electrical tap (with a fold back for removal)
conformal coating.

I've got 12 year old connections that are still going strong with no
measurable degradation.

I always use the best cable and connectors I can find...  do it right;
you only gotta do it once.

__
Clay Autery, KG5LKV
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 4/21/2016 8:02 AM, paul swed wrote:
> With respect to sealing. Everyone has a method.
> I use what I learned in the Navy. I could see how well the connections held
> up in the worst conditions sun cold heat wet humidity...
> Layer of rubber tape
> scotch kote
> Layer of plastic tape
> scotch kote
> If done well the connector releases just fine even after 5 or more years. I
> want to say 10. But then woodpeckers have a way of shortening the life of
> connectors and coax.
> The approach is really layers and the top to deteriorate over time...
> But as I say everyone has their own approach.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
>

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Re: [time-nuts] Fw: 5065

[Clay Autery]

Also Allied Electronics...  If I knew it was CPCs y'all were talking
about...  same stuff we used in aviation, et al. for comms, nav aids, etc...

Also used in the oilfield for some equipment cables for data acquisition.

Plug:  https://www.alliedelec.com/te-connectivity-213905-1/70082887/
Receptacle: https://www.alliedelec.com/te-connectivity-213889-2/70082884/

Pins, et al. are also available; look at the bottom of the pages...

If you can't find the exact 3 position plug/receptacle, you can always
use a 4, 5, 6, etc... and simply plug the holes you aren't using...

__
Clay Autery, KG5LKV
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 3/17/2016 4:56 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote:
> Ulrich,
>
> The connectors can be obtained reasonably inexpensively from Galco.  
>
> http://www.galco.com/shop/Circular-Connectors
>
> They are a 3 pin circular connector, consisting of three parts, that are 
> purchased as an 'insert', 'shell', and 'clamp', IIRC.  I don't have the part 
> numbers in front of me but they are the same for the 5061 Cesium standards.
>
> I can get you the specific part numbers if you can't find it in the archives.
>
> I used a spare 3 wire extension cord and just cut the end off the cord and 
> installed the connector to mate with the 5065A and 5061A.  I've been told 
> that the wiring is different between the 5061A and some of the 5065A's but 
> I've never found a 5065A that was different from my 5061A.
>
> Might want to open the unit and make sure the wiring matches the schematic.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Joe
>
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of KA2WEU--- 
> via time-nuts
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 9:30 AM
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Fw: 5065
>
>  
> The HP 5065A Rubidium Frequency Standard requires  a circular 3 pin adapter 
> cable that  can be plugged into 115V AC outlet. 
> I checked all cables I have  and this particular cable  is not finable. Can 
> the unit set to 110/220 V  
> Maybe  this cable can be  purchased  or assembled ?   ULRICH  
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