Re: [time-nuts] Making a 10811 better
Is there a relatively inert gas that has much higher thermal conductivity than air? Then a flask makes sense and is not the size of the basement... Dick Moore On Sep 20, 2011, at 5:00 AM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: -- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 18:21:30 -0700 From: ed breya e...@telight.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Making a HP 10811 better Message-ID: 201109200121.p8k1lgse015...@mail30c40.carrierzone.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed One last thing regarding oil-filling. My previous comment was made picturing oil inside the oscillator block only - not outside, or between the outer parts - if there is a resistance wire heater (I think it's heated with Qs only on the 10811) it is held together with various tapes and adhesives that could soften or dissolve. Also, the insulation would not insulate very well of saturated with oil, and could possibly soften or break down somehow. I would not recommend dunking the whole thing in a vat of oil. And one final, final note: If oil is somehow effectively contained in the oscillator block, then a void (bubble) of some sort, or an expansion facility or vent would be needed to relieve the pressure changes during warmup. Otherwise, when started up, the expanding oil would have to either leak out, or deform (or damage) something. This would be equivalent to dramatically increasing barometric pressure, and certainly effect the oscillator frequency. Ed -- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 23:20:28 -0600 (MDT) From: Don Latham d...@montana.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Making a HP 10811 better Message-ID: d850d565aabe9422dd4172b9c904d5d4.squir...@webmail.montana.com Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Ah well. Just a thought. I was thinking of simply dumping the whole thing into a picnic jug full of baby oil :-) Sorta scatterbrained, but I have seen mentioned on the list a basement sized steel block ... Don ed breya One last thing regarding oil-filling. My previous comment was made picturing oil inside the oscillator block only - not outside, or between the outer parts - if there is a resistance wire heater (I think it's heated with Qs only on the 10811) it is held together with various tapes and adhesives that could soften or dissolve. Also, the insulation would not insulate very well of saturated with oil, and could possibly soften or break down somehow. I would not recommend dunking the whole thing in a vat of oil. And one final, final note: If oil is somehow effectively contained in the oscillator block, then a void (bubble) of some sort, or an expansion facility or vent would be needed to relieve the pressure changes during warmup. Otherwise, when started up, the expanding oil would have to either leak out, or deform (or damage) something. This would be equivalent to dramatically increasing barometric pressure, and certainly effect the oscillator frequency. Ed ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com -- ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 86, Issue 55 * ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Lady Heather help, please
Trying to run LH2 with a TBolt under WinXP. I need to change her com port to 3, which is where my serial-to-USB adapter is located -- and port 1 is in use. I see in the tip sheet that I can use the command line. Trouble is, I can't find it. Hitting most keys will display a menu of letters to invoke various things, but I can't get to anything that looks like a command line to use the /3 command. Suggestions? TIA, Dick Moore ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather help
Thanks, y'all -- that addition to the directory path did it. LH works good! Along the way, I discovered that on my machine, F11 toggles the screen size between full screen, which I can actually read on my big display, and some squashed version that's unusable. Best, Dick Moore ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] low-loss cable
Once again, thanks to all. The Lucent bullet antenna has an N connector on the base, so I'll just use RG-6 which I have enough of, and live with a bigger trough through the window frame or just go ahead and bore through the wall -- I originally cut the slit in the window frame to accommodate the Hawk patch antenna's permanently attached very small diameter cable and I didn't want to mess with removing and installing the BNC connector on the other end on that tiny stuff in order to take it through the wall. But with RG-6 or RG-59, no such problem. Now, question 2: fluke.l says that the Lucent bullet will work fine with the TBolt -- but is there any chance that the 26dB gain of that antenna and its preamp will cause the TBolt pain? Best, Dick ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Lowloss cable?
What's the best small diameter (0.25) low loss coax? I need to run about 30' from my GPS antenna to a TBolt. Best, Dick ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] low-loss cable
Thanks all -- I got a Lucent bullet from i.fluke, +26dB gain. Replaces a Hawk patch with lower gain, but I want to run more cable (about 2X) to get the bullet higher in the air. The Hawk patch, which works very well signal-wise, has cable that's about 3 or 4mm in diameter and about 6m long. I've sawed out a part of a plastic window frame to get the cable inside. So I don't want any cable that's bigger than 0.25 d. and preferably smaller. Hope this clarification helps a bit. Best, Dick ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] 60kHz shielded loop antenna
Hi, nuts -- I got my new camera, so here's the URL, where the pix are, of the shielded loop antenna for the Dymec DY-5842. Sorry about the pix file sizes -- not being real familiar with the new shooter, I forgot to set resolution to something web-friendly and the little thing takes 12Mp pix. I shrank them as much as I could, but they're still a bit big. http://www.moorepage.net/Loop.html Mike Feher has first refusal on this thing. Dick Moore ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP/Dymek DY-5842
I used to have one of these marvelous receivers and sold it. I still have the WWVB/60kHz shielded loop antenna that I made for it and although it is big, at about 30 x 30 x 2 or so, I believe it will ship FedEx or UPS OK. It's free to anyone who'll pay the shipping. It's made out of copper pipe and works quite well, and is tuned for the 5842 at 60kHz. Best, Dick Moore On Oct 1, 2010, at 3:50 PM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: Message: 5 Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 16:34:57 -0600 From: ziggy9 zig...@pumpkinbrook.com Subject: [time-nuts] Possibly OT - Any interest in a vintage HP/Dymec DY-5842 VLF receiver? To: time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 990bd60b3c5d084910c10c8855912...@pumpkinbrook.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Fellow time-nuts: I've got a circa 1964 DY-5842 VLF receiver. This is (was) operated in conjunction with an external time interval counter to make a frequency comparison. So you would select WWVL for example, and use that as your primary standard for comparison to your local standard. It's got 5 crystals in it: 16, 18, 19.8, 20, and 60 kHz (listed as GBR, NBA, NPM, WWVL, WWVB). It works and I have the manual. The thing is, the interest in something like this is bound to be a bit narrow, so I thought I'd mention it here. So if there are any collectors, equipment museums, etc. that might be interested in this, please let me know. I'm a bit sentimental about this thing, it's sort of a bit of history, and from what I can tell, somewhat rare (doesnt make it worth anything though :). Since it's a bit of a curiosity, I'd like to pass it to someone that might be interested in it rather than just tossing it. I can always provide more details to anyone that wants them. Best regards, Paul Davis - K9MR -- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 18:42:16 -0400 From: jmfranke jmfra...@cox.net Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Possibly OT - Any interest in a vintage HP/DymecDY-5842 VLF receiver? To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: b7ea2d4ab6f34ab19da25cfdc85a6...@franke Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original I am very interested. Do you have any images? John Franke WA4WDL Portsmouth, VA 23703 -- From: ziggy9 zig...@pumpkinbrook.com Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 6:34 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Possibly OT - Any interest in a vintage HP/Dymec DY-5842 VLF receiver? Fellow time-nuts: I've got a circa 1964 DY-5842 VLF receiver. This is (was) operated in conjunction with an external time interval counter to make a frequency comparison. So you would select WWVL for example, and use that as your primary standard for comparison to your local standard. It's got 5 crystals in it: 16, 18, 19.8, 20, and 60 kHz (listed as GBR, NBA, NPM, WWVL, WWVB). It works and I have the manual. The thing is, the interest in something like this is bound to be a bit narrow, so I thought I'd mention it here. So if there are any collectors, equipment museums, etc. that might be interested in this, please let me know. I'm a bit sentimental about this thing, it's sort of a bit of history, and from what I can tell, somewhat rare (doesnt make it worth anything though :). Since it's a bit of a curiosity, I'd like to pass it to someone that might be interested in it rather than just tossing it. I can always provide more details to anyone that wants them. Best regards, Paul Davis - K9MR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 17:50:17 -0500 From: Brian Kirby kilodelta4foxm...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Possibly OT - Any interest in a vintage HP/Dymec DY-5842 VLF receiver? To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 4ca665a9.1090...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed You might consider contacting Dr. Ken Kuhn -- kennathak...@gmail.com check his HP museum at http://www.kennethkuhn.com/hpmuseum/ Brian Kirby KD4FM On 10/1/2010 5:34 PM, ziggy9 wrote: Fellow time-nuts: I've got a circa 1964 DY-5842 VLF receiver. This is (was) operated in conjunction with an external time interval counter to make a frequency comparison. So you would select WWVL for example, and use that as your primary standard for comparison to your local standard. It's got 5 crystals in it: 16, 18, 19.8, 20, and 60 kHz (listed as GBR, NBA, NPM, WWVL, WWVB). It works and I have the manual. The thing is, the interest in something like this is bound to be a bit narrow, so I thought I'd
[time-nuts] one-off PC board
I have a board layout that I need made, simple single-side, 2.3 x 6.5 inches. Any suggestions on where I can get this made at a reasonable price? The mask layout I have is a printout from a pdf document that has black where the traces are and is full-size. Others may be interested -- this is for Bob Cordell's state-variable low-distortion oscillator (similar to a Tek SG505), which delivers THD around 3ppm in the audio mid-band, works from 10 or 20Hz up to 100 to 200kHz, with generally very low distortion overall. A very nice inexpensive way to get great amplitude stability and ultra low THD, with output up to 10VRMS... I built this unit years ago, and now, after selling mine, I've discovered I'd like to have one again. Best, Dick ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] LCD monitor for TBolt
Bob Mokia at fluke.l (www.no1electric.com still has some of the TBolt LCD monitors (but it was hard to find on his site -- try Trimble as a search term). I just got one, and it runs from a +12V wall-wart just fine. Works great. Best, Dick Moore ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] PICTIC II parts from Mouser in da house!
Got the package today from Mouser with everything there. Now to send the PIC chip to Bob Darlington for programming. And get the board from Stanley Reynolds. Best, Dick Moore ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Vectron 1MHz OCXO info?
Hi, nuts -- I have an old (70's?) Vectron Model CO-203-3 1MHz OCXO which is the time-base out of a Monsanto 1500A counter. The coarse and fine adjustments in the top of the osc. case don't seem to make much difference in frequency, which is about 10Hz off when the OCXO is warm. That seems like a lot of error to me. Can anyone shed light on where to find a schematic or any info for what's inside this case? Google has not helped. I've sawn the box open around the base, thinking that would be safer than trying to sweat it open, and I will post a few pix later on. What about an alternative 1MHz OCXO? Or would it be easier/cheaper to use a 10MHz OCXO with a divider? I've got a manual for the counter on its way to me, thanks to eBay, which will answer many questions I have, but I'm betting there won't be anything but a block diagram of the OCXO. Best, Dick Moore ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Vectron OCXO
Here's the link to the pix I have so far on the Vectron 1MHz OCXO: http://www.moorepage.net/VectronOCXO.html Best, Dick Moore ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] More items for sale
Hi -- I've added four pieces to my clearance sale at www.moorepage.net/Testequip.html Best, Dick Moore ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] crystal oscillators TPLL
@ Steve Rooke -- Warren and I have had correspondence in the past about other things, and I was very interested in his TPLL implementation. Someone in the thread had asked Warren if he would supply a schematic diagram of his particular set-up. I never saw an answer to that, so I asked too. Warren essentially refused, indicating that everything I whould need, if I was competent to understand it, was already posted or available and that if that wasn't enough, I probably shouldn't be messing with it. After several rounds of me asking and Warren being dismissive, I gave up. I'm not sure if Warren thinks there is something commercially valuable here and is protecting his baby, or what, but his flat refusal to provide a detailed view of his experimental set-up is hard to understand. I asked in good faith and got nowhere. So, I'm just a bystander. If you understand his experimental set-up, or if you have a working version of your own, it would help me a lot if you could provide more details about parts and pieces. Best, Dick Moore On Jun 23, 2010, at 5:00 AM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: Message: 1 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 19:17:43 +1200 From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] crystal oscillators TPLL To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: aanlktinden2nasybfxjczqhqht9ypqu6dbu7ialsj...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Bob, On 23 June 2010 15:13, Robert Benward rbenw...@verizon.net wrote: Steve, It is admirable that you stick up for Warren. ?Part of Warren's problem is Now, let's please get this straight, I have been trying to act as a facilitator in all of this because I believe that I know what the ral problem is here and perhaps we will touch upon that a bit later. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TPLL method
Warren, someone asked if you could draw up a schematic that is exactly what you're using, and post it here for us. If you did that, I missed it (I don't always get the time-nuts posts -- Hughesnet thinks a lot of them are spam). Or is this a work in progress for you, that we can expect soon? I'm quite interested in your setup. Dick Moore ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Monsanto 1500A
While selling nearly all of my stuff, I found several boxes that had been forgotten for a long time. One contained a Monsanto 1500A Counter-timer. It's a cool old box, good-looking fairly well built, 9 digit Nixie display. I'd like to get it running, but a half dozen boards were out of it in a smaller box. They go in the back row of boards, but I have no idea what order some of them go in. There's one bad Nixie, but I found one on fleaBay. If anyone has a manual or knows the board order, I sure could use some help. Best, Dick Moore ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 3458A CLIP manual
Message: 1 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 23:26:13 + (UTC) From: jeffh...@comcast.net Subject: [time-nuts] HP 3458A schematic/service manual request To: time-nuts@febo.com Hi, I picked up a non-working 3458A at a swapmeet this weekend. It has err 202 Hardware Failure :?Slave test-convergance. Assembly-Level Repair Manual?says its a problem on the A1 board Does anyone have a schematic/service manual for this? Thanks Jeff Jeff and all -- I bought one of the so-called CLIP manuals after I bought my 3458. This manual was done under duress by HP in order to satisfy government requirements. The one I got has board layouts, parts lists, and schematics, all for the original version of the meter. It has no troubleshooting or other service information. It's a good thing to have if you need to know the value of a component or a part number. Beyond that, you're on your own. The Agilent $2500 bring it up to current standards deal is a very good deal, since it includes all parts and a calibration (which is worth $500 alone), and I recommend it if the fault is not obvious on the A1 board. I saw a 3458 from eBay that had an IC on the A1 board completely smoked and the board charred -- it also gave a 202 error... well, no kidding! Dick Moore ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Printed manuals for bidding
Now that nearly all of my gear has been sold, I've been able to go through my stack of manuals and offer them for bidding. See them at: www.moorepage.net/Testequip.html Best, Dick Moore ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] A few more items up for bid
Hi, time-nuts -- Now that most of my gear is gone, some pieces have come out of the corners and are open for bids. See them at my webpage: http://www.moorepage.net/Testequip.html Best, Dick Moore ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 69, Issue 63
Thx for the feedback, Stan. I'll add a last update date and time at the top. I'll only use eBay for the stuff that you guys don't want. Dick Moore On Apr 26, 2010, at 11:12 AM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: Send time-nuts mailing list submissions to time-nuts@febo.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to time-nuts-requ...@febo.com You can reach the person managing the list at time-nuts-ow...@febo.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of time-nuts digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: Closing the lab -- gear for sale (Stan, W1LE) 2. Which voltage regulator chips offer good performance...? (Michael Baker) 3. Re: Closing the lab -- gear for sale (J. Forster) 4. Re: Thunderbolt Power Supply Question (Ed Palmer) 5. Thunderbolt Power Supply Question (Arthur Dent) 6. Re: Which voltage regulator chips offer good performance...? (Bob Camp) 7. Re: Thunderbolt Power Supply Question (Bob Camp) 8. Re: Thunderbolt Power Supply Question (Ed Palmer) -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 09:45:21 -0400 From: Stan, W1LE stanw...@verizon.net Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Closing the lab -- gear for sale To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 4bd598f1.1000...@verizon.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hello Dick, Your bidding system is workable. I like the web page with the listing and highest bid. Please time/date stamp the highest bid, so we know the dynamic. Please advise when the bidding for each item is to close. Please send a reminder, with the web site, for a every 2 day update. I like this better than Ebay.. NO f***ing snipers are allowed. !!! I like your philosophy of getting the stuff into hands that will appreciate and use it. Whenever I do a ham estate sale, My #1 objective is to get someone who is interested in it and will move it off the property. Many ham radio estates end up in the land fill. Stan, W1LE Cape Cod FN41sr On 4/26/2010 12:37 AM, Dick Moore wrote: Dear time-nuts: I'm shutting down my shop-lab and want to sell my equipment. I've got some interesting stuff you can see at: www.moorepage.net/Testequip.html As the web page notes, I'll take bids and update them, and when interest runs out on something, high bidder gets it. Thanks for all your past help; good luck... Dick Moore ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 11:01:40 -0400 From: Michael Baker mp...@clanbaker.org Subject: [time-nuts] Which voltage regulator chips offer good performance...? To: time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 4bd5aad4.3090...@clanbaker.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hello, Time-Nutters-- Bob Camp said: snip ...stability is not the only issue. Crud on the power supply is an issue as well. Some of the ultra low drop out regulators are not real good crud blockers. --- So... This would seem to bring up the question of which 3-terminal regulators ARE good (if not good then which are the best?) providing both stability -AND- clean, crud free output? How about old standby regulators such as the 723? Problem there is that the stand-alone chip is only good for really low current. For years I have been using general purpose 3-terminal regulators sometimes with carefully selected low impedance capacitance on the output. In some cases I have found that a high-gain transistor in the output configured as a capacitance multiplier serves to handle current load spikes but is only a nominal help in cleaning up crud on the output. Comments? Suggestions? Mike Baker - -- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 08:41:11 -0700 (PDT) From: J. Forster j...@quik.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Closing the lab -- gear for sale To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 61185.12.6.201.2.1272296471.squir...@popaccts.quikus.com Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 He should also post the notice to: testequiptra...@yahoogroups.com -John === Hello Dick, Your bidding system is workable. I like the web page with the listing and highest bid. Please time/date stamp the highest bid, so we know the dynamic. Please
[time-nuts] Closing the lab -- gear for sale
Dear time-nuts: I'm shutting down my shop-lab and want to sell my equipment. I've got some interesting stuff you can see at: www.moorepage.net/Testequip.html As the web page notes, I'll take bids and update them, and when interest runs out on something, high bidder gets it. Thanks for all your past help; good luck... Dick Moore ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Yukon power
On Apr 8, 2010, at 11:23 AM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: Message: 8 Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 11:22:58 -0700 From: Rick Karlquist rich...@karlquist.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Yukon Energy causes time sync problems To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 8170b7918c354c3b04336780ecfbc25e.squir...@webmail.sonic.net Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 This reminds me of something a power company engineer once told me: High frequency is 61 Hz. Low frequency is 59 Hz. I remember being in the powerhouse at Bonneville Dam on the Columbia River in the mid-fifties and seeing round-bezel vibrating reed frequency meters with 5 reeds in 0.5Hz steps -- 59, 59.5, 60, 60.5, 61. The square ends of the reeds were painted white to make them easier to see, and they had about a 1/4 p-p motion at center freq. Don't know if they were part of a control loop or just monitors. Tallies well with what the engineer told Rick. Dick Moore ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP3420B calibration
, the others only go from 0 to 9, which is a little counter-intuitive, but then I've been using Fluke 885s, 887s, and 895s for years, so I'm used to them. Unfortunately, I don't have the manual in electronic form, so I'm not sure how I would get you that section of it. I have a very good quality paper reproduction of the original. If I can get a scan done, I'll email the dividers and descriptions to you, but please don't hold your breath... Dick Moore ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Test equipment
Hi, John -- having both a couple of GPSDOs and an HP 5345A, I'm going to offer the (perhaps) minority opinion that you not drive the external clock input of the 5345 from the 10MHz output of a GPSDO. I was lucky enough to get a 5345 with a really good, well-aged 10811A OCXO in it, which has proven to be very, very stable. I do use my Trimble TBolt to check the 5345 every once in a while, with the 5345 averaging over the longest time it offers; then I do the same thing with my other GPSDO; then I scratch my head and see how the three of them compare. Adjusting the 5345 is a time-consuming, frustrating, and essentially pointless operation, since there is no fine-tuning of the 10811's output. Better to just log the variances and make compensating calculations for critical measurements of time or frequency. As to other gear, maybe an HP/Agilent 34401A or the equivalent Fluke or Keithley 6.x digit DMM would be useful -- older HP DMMsa with 6+ digit resolution come up for peanuts on auction sites all the time, and a 3456A for example is a very good, very versatile instrument once it's cal'd. My 2 cents. Dick Moore Message: 2 Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 13:35:22 -0500 From: John Foege john.fo...@gmail.com Subject: [time-nuts] Test Equipment To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 888d55281001211035tfa48d5ew5e36acf584cc5...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I realize that this e-mail is somewhat off topic, however, I also believe that I will get some of the best answers from the members of this list: I have recently started to build an electronics lab, and am currently trying to acquire test and general equipment for my little basement workshop of horrors. So far, being on a limited budget, I have acquired a Tek 2465A in good working order, a Fluke 1953A counter, and my little gem (ok not quite so little) HP5345A with the 4-ghz freq converter plugin w/ opt 11 12. I'd just like to ask everyone what they would be, if they were in my shoes, attempting to acquire. Unforunately, however, I am just out of engineering school and not working with much of a budget here. I'd kill to have all the fancy gear some of you nuts have. I'd really love a DSO instead of the Tek 2465A I have. I'd kill for a good spectrum analyzer or VNA etc. Any suggestions on what I should acquire and/or suggestions for economical equipment that I should make that is a must have? I am a good DIYer when it comes to building equipment, so often I attempt to build that which I cannot afford. I appreciate everyone's' opinions in advance. Thank you. Sincerely, John Foege KB1FSX starving-engineer! ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Modified Total Deviation measurement
Hi Magnus -- Any possibility that there is some math package subroutine error of some kind? In yours or theirs? Best, Dick Moore Message: 3 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 03:29:49 +0100 From: Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org Subject: [time-nuts] Modified Total Deviation calculation To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 4b53c79d.5000...@rubidium.dyndns.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Dear fellow time-nuts, In my effort to implement the suite of ADEV and friends, I have been implementing various forms of them along with the 1000 frequency sample test sequence out of NIST SP1065: http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/general/pdf/2220.pdf However, I seem to be unable to perfectly match the numbers for the MTotDev. My numbers so far: m = 1m = 10 m = 100 Max 0.9957452943 0.7003371204 0.5489367785 Min 0.0013717599 0.2545924150 0.4533354120 Avg 0.4897744629 0.4897744629 0.4897744629 Sdev0.2884663647 0.0929635201 0.0320665644 NAdev 0.2922318781 0.0996573606 0.0389780433 OSAdev 0.2922318781 0.0915995342 0.0324134303 OAdev 0.2922318781 0.0915995342 0.0324134303 MAdev 0.2922318781 0.0617237638 0.0217092091 Tdev0.1687201535 0.3563623166 1.2533817739 Hdev0.2943883291 0.1052754194 0.0391086056 OHdev 0.2943883291 0.0958108317 0.0323763825 MHdev 0.2942275231 0.0621023549 0.0213087110 TOTdev 0.2922318781 0.0913474326 0.0340653025 MTOTdev 0.2303857898 0.0555288598 0.0195467513 The MTOTdev numbers according to page 118 (of PDF, page number 108 according to the printed pagenumbers) should be Modified Total Dev 2.418528e-01 6.499161e-02 2.287774e-02 Do anyone happend to have an implementation (in source) of MTOTdev at hand giving the NIST SP1065 numbers? Please note that W. Riley has about the same document in his Handbook, and it reflects the same number. I would also suspect that a STABLE32 run would give those numbers. I have been using both SP1065 and the original article as reference: http://tf.nist.gov/general/pdf/1369.pdf I've put care into ensuring that I implement it as close to these as possible, but with no luck in fixing the numbers. I use the averaging of the two half-ranges of the 3*m block tecnique rather than the minimum square estimator as recommended. The formulation given may seem strange, but it is the 3/2*m sample average of the f(i)=(x[n+3/2*m+i)-x[n+i])/ (3/2*m) frequency estimation where i varies from 0 to 3/2*m-1. I have already verified my test-sequence and the numbers produced by the other algorithms have been able to match after removing various bugs. An independent implementation may be a good clue. An alternative may be that the published numbers is incorrect for some reason, but I don't have sufficient proof for that. I have however made two different implementation variants that crunch out the same numbers. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 66, Issue 55
Nic, many times volt-nut questions are posted here, including by me, and no one has ever said get outta here, we're TIME-NUTS. I currently have two 732As, a Fluke 5440B, a couple of Datron 1082s, and not too long ago got an HP3458A and had it cal'd by HP in Loveland. One thing I've discovered so far about the 732As is that you really only need one unless you're a belt-and-suspender kind of guy. Either of mine reliably return to better than 0.1ppm of base from several cold starts, given a warm-up of a day or so, so I've dispensed with the batteries completely. Over the last few months, the two 732s track within 0.05ppm as measured by the 3458, which also tells me that the 3458 is pretty good too. I know of no other volt-nut sites, but others here may know of some -- I hope they do. I do have a web site of my own, but I haven't yet set up a volt-nut blog -- I'm looking at the Phorum open-source software for another project, and if I think the traffic won't be real high (how could it?) then I'll look into the possibility of hosting such a thing. In the mean time, Volt On!! Dic k Moore Message: 6 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 14:12:14 +1100 From: Nic McLean mcle...@bigpond.com Subject: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too. To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: cfe28e8002d6404d8d4ed951037c1...@pc755913417801 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi All, I have been a time nut for some time now. I think I've become a Volt nut too! I build the Silicon Chip magazine Voltage reference late last year but didn't have anything to compare it against so I bought a Fluke 732A DC reference standard. I there a group I can subscribe to that can help me with this? Can I coin the phrase; A man that has one DC Voltage standard knows how accurate his meter is, whereas a man with two standards is not quite sure! Regards, Nic VK2KXN VK5ZAT ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Cheap Rubidium
I like the idea of building a cold-storage plant with nested rooms, perhaps 20 or so 'til you end up with something about 1 cu. ft. to put the rubidium in, and renting out any unused space to frozen food folks to partially offset the costs. It wouldn't have to be as big as a football field, though that would be nice.Some of the rooms could be made of mu-metal, but the re-annealing after the bending and forming can be a real hassle. And of course the large size makes it easier to use 3-axios orthogonal Helmholtz coils in a nested room while still allowing for a door for access, much like the Navy's demagnetizing coils for the Trident subs up here at Subase Bangor in Washington State. After all, cost really is no object, right? Best, Dick Moore On Dec 24, 2009, at 12:55 PM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: Send time-nuts mailing list submissions to time-nuts@febo.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to time-nuts-requ...@febo.com You can reach the person managing the list at time-nuts-ow...@febo.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of time-nuts digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: Cheap Rubidium (Bob Camp) 2. Re: Cheap Rubidium (heatpipe cooling for) (Bruce Griffiths) 3. Re: Cheap Rubidium (Bruce Griffiths) 4. Re: Cheap Rubidium (Bob Camp) 5. Re: Cheap Rubidium (heatpipe cooling for) (Bob Camp) 6. Re: Cheap Rubidium (Bob Camp) -- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 15:36:17 -0500 From: Bob Camp li...@cq.nu Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Cheap Rubidium To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 5ecf0d6a-efa1-4244-bc09-7e0baa640...@cq.nu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Actually burying a recirculating loop might work pretty well. The gotcha is that going much deeper than 18 would require significant amounts of blasting powder. I suspect the neighbors *might* object Bob On Dec 24, 2009, at 3:32 PM, Don Latham wrote: Actually, couldn't you just squeeze your fish before you eat it? Should have a lot of mercury in notime, according to the scaremongers. Also, consider a heatsink buried about 10-15 feet deep. The temperature at that depth in the ground does not vary very much at all. The trick to all of this is to have a heatsink/source at a constant temp somewhere... Merry Christams to all the nuts! Don Bruce Griffiths Magnus Danielson wrote: Bruce, Bruce Griffiths wrote: At your location, at present, it wouldnt be a significant problem as long as the basement was unheated. Depends. But having 3 dm snow on the ground helps to keep the ground around the house warmer, as it will insulate against the cold of the open sky. -12.8 C is the lowest so far. Since winter is reoccuring, we build the houses accordingly. Also good ventilation would help, together with a thin layer of oil on top of the mercury. Mmm. Yes, didn't think about covering the baths with fluids. The biggest obstacle would be the cost of the Mercury. Actually, it could be an obstcle just obtaining in those amounts it here within EC, so it would involve some form of approval of some form of excempt since it is mercury is a ROS element. Cheers, Magnus Guidline price is around $US600/flask (1 flask = 34.5kg). Thus cost for 145 ton would be around $US2.5million. The Canadians have a liquid mercury mirror telescope about 6m in diameter. Whilst this doesn't use 145 tons of mercury the surface area would be of the same order. Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 09:41:31 +1300 From: Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Cheap Rubidium (heatpipe cooling for) To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 4b33d1fb.9040...@xtra.co.nz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Depending on the required flow rate you may be able to use a peristaltic pump. Bruce Bob Camp wrote: Hi A heat pipe might work if the fluid had
Re: [time-nuts] Power level reference
My boss at Tektronix, Bob Ragsdale, quoted the Pulse Amplifier Designer's Law, which he said he learned at the Rad Lab in Livermore: If it's big enough, it's too slow. If it's fast enough, it's too small. If it's big enough and fast enough, its got rumdiddlies on the top. Best, Dick Moore -- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2009 20:00:58 -0500 From: mi...@flatsurface.com (Mike S) Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: Power level reference To: j...@quik.com, Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 20091202010202.185c4116...@hamburg.alientech.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed At 07:00 PM 12/1/2009, J. Forster wrote... Scopes tend to have non-flat frequency response. I'd consider a precision load and something like an HP 3400A True RMS meter for up to a hunderd MHz or so. You have to know your equipment. I have a Tek 485 350 MHz analog scope, so I'm confident it's flat into VHF (at least beyond 100 MHz). I've verified it exceeds the 350 MHz spec (i.e. 3 db down @ 350 MHz) with a tunnel diode pulser. -- ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 65, Issue 4 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Newbie looking for GPSDO kit or Project sites
I present detailed experiences of building two different GPSDOs, which were built from designs with available PC boards. Visit my pages at: www.moorepage.net GPS oscillator 1 is Brooks Shera's PLL design. GPS oscillator 2 is Bertrand Zauhar's FLL design. I have links for lots of stuff in both. Best, Dick Moore ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] UTC in Windows, and dual-booting
Haven't seen this discussed here, but I think it's interesting. Seems Windows uses local time, whereas MacOSX and Linux, as well as other OSes use Posix/UTC. There's a discussion about why MS is all wrong on this, with a possible Win fix using regedit http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/mswish/ut-rtc.html Best, Dick Moore ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] UTC in Windows
John, this article wasn't biased toward any OS, nor about reliability and usefulness -- it is about why Posix/UTC are extremely important in various applications and what MS is and isn't doing about it. I didn't intend to start a Wintel vs anything discussion. I use Windows and MacOSX, each for its own best applications. But I've noticed the RTC error that occurs when I re-boot into Windows from Mac on my Frakkintosh dual-boot machine, and this article, begun in 2004 and updated, is about that, with (if read carefully) a possible fix which I will apply. Best, Dick Moore Message: 10 Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 13:01:12 -0700 (PDT) From: J. Forster j...@quik.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] UTC in Windows, and dual-booting To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 1869.12.6.201.154.1255464072.squir...@popacctsnew.quik.com Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 To hear an Apple or a UNIX disciple tell it, Microsoft never does anything right. The fact is, Windows made personal computing bloom. I bought a Mac and a PC clone w/in a few weeks of each other in the early 90s. The PC clone cost under $2000, the Mac over $5000. The Mac hardware died at least three times and with every change in the Mac OS, stuff would cease to work. The PC is still running and still runs some legacy DOS apps. Case closed, IMO. -John = Haven't seen this discussed here, but I think it's interesting. Seems Windows uses local time, whereas MacOSX and Linux, as well as other OSes use Posix/UTC. There's a discussion about why MS is all wrong on this, with a possible Win fix using regedit http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/mswish/ut-rtc.html Best, Dick Moore -- ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 63, Issue 61 * ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5328A
Hi, Brent and Doug -- my copy of the 5328 schematic shows a 0.47 ohm resistor in series with F1, a 2A fast-blo fuse. I would be sure that the current is flowing thru the fuse -- is it F1 on the P.S. board that's blowing?. As Brent said, using a Variac and then putting an AC ammeter across the empty fuse holder would certainly help confirm that. This is the unregulated +25 supply and it feeds lots of things. There's a 47uF cap hanging off the downstream side of the fuse -- I'd look at that, and at Q1, CR3 and CR7 first. If L1's frame is grounded, I would check L1 for a shorted winding to frame. A solder bridge somewhere is always a possibility if you're not the first person to work on this unit. I no longer own one of these, but I can kibbitz with you if it'll help. If it's more convenient, email me at: rich...@hughes.net Best, Dick Moore On Sep 9, 2009, at 6:47 PM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: Message: 2 Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 14:53:15 -0600 From: Brent Gordon time-n...@adobe-labs.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5328 PSU nightmare... Or stupid engineer, you decide... To: cont...@pupcostudios.com, Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 4aa815bb.2020...@adobe-labs.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=EUC-KR I'm not familiar with this particular instrument, but a standard technique for linear power supplies is to hook it up to a variac. This lets you turn down the line voltage so you can do some measurements without smoking the system. Brent Douglas Wire - PUPCo Studios wrote: Good day everyone and thank you all for hosting this wonderful community and allowing me to participate. I have several HP5328 with the ? really- nice? newer 10811-x Oscillators in them. I have found while I have used the good old gold trace reliable HP instruments all of my life, these units have been especially difficult. The first unit the 4500uF electrolytic?s went bad and produced essentially a dead short; an easy enough repair for me to not only track down in minutes, but it only takes a straight bit screwdriver to fix in seconds! Now our second unit has been giving me fits and while I would agree 100% with one of the posts I saw here about how well HP did not only with their schematics, but also the wonderful troubleshooting flow charts usually make repairs on any of their old units a breeze. Sadly I have a unit here that is giving us fits! It is a PSU issue and not related to the Motherboard or any of the cards as I tested it with everything unhooked/ unsoldered and still got the same result. It is quite similar to what we see when we get an old HP unit that has a fried cap and is darn near creating a short to ground, but alas I simply cannot find the problem (I am sure it is starring me in the face is and I just can?t see it?) What I am seeing is super high current flow through the R1 (I believe, but HP?s every unit I have ever serviced had.47? resistor, NOT a 22-? as is stated in the schematic?) that leads to F1. The troubleshooting is complicated by the fact that unless I want to smoke that heavy duty, relatively close tolerance resistor, I cannot even check voltages anywhere for it will blow the fuse or if I put a slow blow to try and catch some measurements in a second or two, well that is not very feasible either. If I had to guess, I would say it has either a cap that has fried, outside chance of a transformer issue, or the way this thing reacts, pretty well an effective dead short somewhere, but I will be damned if I can find the problem anywhere. I replaced the bad and 4500uF caps as well as the rectifier, wondering if part of it had blown with no change in its issues. One cannot follow the flow cart to much of anything other than boxes that say look for a short, but so many areas one tests even on a perfectly working unit come clear down near the zero ? point even when they are operating correctly. I apologize if 1) this is not a clear email that anyone can easily understand and 2) I almost feel embarrassed to ask anyone for advice from their practical experience, for I feel as If I should easily be able to get to the bottom of this in a matter of minutes with the wonderful data HP provides us all for these old workhorses. So if anyone has run into a problem such as this in the past where working the flow chart only yields No, No, No - check for shorts and has any advice for how I might logically proceed, or what in fact you have found out in dealing with a similar problem, it would be of great help, as we need this in-service ASAP, but I guess I just cannot see the forest for the tress in front of me or something here? Any advise, suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I would like to become a more active participant here with all I can contribute, which hopefully soon should be a lot as I am doing some innovative timing
Re: [time-nuts] General MEA CULPA
So, so sorry -- After my last post reply, I forgot to get rid of the following posts -- I hate it when that happens! Dick Moore ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] more PCAdHoc IO
I've used the DLP products and they work great See: www.moorepage.net/gps2.html for the DLP board that goes from TTLUSB and my mounting scheme. Just scroll down. Best, Dick Moore On Sep 2, 2009, at 11:59 AM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: Message: 4 Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 08:38:01 -0700 From: Pete Lancashire p...@petelancashire.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] [OT] more PCAdHoc IO To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 324a65d36cc7efd8d319bb195a778abc.squir...@petelancashire.com Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 I've done a couple designs that use FTDI chips. Just about ever USB to serial or parallel widget you see uses their chips. One low cost all ready build board example http://www.dlpdesign.com/usb/usb1232h.shtml I've not done biz with them but just an example. -pete ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Atom of time
I first encountered the use of atom of time when reading The Cloud of Unknowing, a ?13th C? work on spirituality and contemplation written by an anonymous English priest. Best, Dick On Aug 22, 2009, at 12:14 PM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: Message: 5 Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 13:19:34 -0500 From: Max Robinson m...@maxsmusicplace.com Subject: [time-nuts] Atom of time? To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: c836b0e4c9404be59961aa99267fe...@backroom Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original A recent answer on Jeopardy involved an atom of time. The clue was In the 16th century this term described 1/374 of a minute. It wasn't applied to matter for another 150 years. The correct response was What is an atom? My research on Google for atom of time turned up nothing relevant to this. Does anyone know what might have been the origin of this number? My first guess was that it was based on gear ratios for the escapement but at 6.2333... atoms per second it seems a little fast for the clocks of that century. Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com -- Message: 6 Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 11:30:53 -0700 (PDT) From: J. Forster j...@quik.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Atom of time? To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 1989.12.6.201.162.1250965853.squir...@popacctsnew.quik.com Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 I don't think it's really a unit of time in the sense we know it. Atom, from the Greek, is basically the smallest chunk of somthing, not divisible into smaller parts. So an Atom of Time, would be the smallest interval of time, by analogy. It seems to be more a religeous term to do with revelation theology than Physics. What was the Category? FWIW, -John -- Message: 8 Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:12:40 -0500 From: Max Robinson m...@maxsmusicplace.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Atom of time? To: j...@quik.com, Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: a87c183683224bef9b66375dcb1da...@backroom Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original John asked. What was the Category? I don't remember clearly. It may have been history. Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Mark Sims and gnat posteriors
On Aug 19, 2009, at 7:49 PM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: Mark -- my friend, mentor, and former employer, Paul Klipsch (sadly, now deceased) used to use the unit of furlongs per fortnight -- also ffn, and used it pretty consistently durning and after he got out of ROTC at what later became New Mexico State College, in about 1920 or so. Of course, he trained in the mounted cavalry brach, so furlongs were good and useful units, and a day in the saddle must surely have felt like a fortnight (two weeks to you young folks) Best, Dick Moore Message: 1 Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 20:18:21 + From: Mark Sims hol...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 61, Issue 77 To: time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: blu125-w681a85ba6048bf94975c1ce...@phx.gbl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Alas, yes, the RCH is no longer politically correct. It's slightly more acceptable cousin is now the RPH. I have a friend that does monomolecular / monoatomic layers. His definition of a thin film is a gnats ass spread over the Rockies... On the subject of small things. Let's replace that ugly unit of time, the nanosecond, with a swooptier measure of time... the femtofortnight. I once worked for a company that had utterly insane paperwork requirements for each project. Clearly nobody ever read any of it. I would do a design in a week and the spend the next year twiddling my toes waiting for the rest of the company to catch up with the paperwork. I wrote a spec for a board where all the timing was specified in ffn. It was years later before anybody ever noticed and asked what the heck an ffn was. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Difference in GPS antennas
On Aug 14, 2009, at 9:27 AM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: Maybe why choke rings are rings. Message: 9 Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:27:52 -0700 From: Lux, Jim (337C) james.p@jpl.nasa.gov Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Difference in GPS antennas To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: c6aade98.9be6%james.p@jpl.nasa.gov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 clip I've tried the pizza pan thing, but that was because my antenna was a magmount, and it was convenient. I didn't see if it gave better performance. A flat plate might actually be worse than putting the bare antenna up on a pole, because it gives strong multipath from a very close reflection point. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] another 3458A error
On Aug 4, 2009, at 7:29 AM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: Message: 8 Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 07:29:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Don @ True-Cal true-...@swbell.net Subject: [time-nuts] Another 3458A problem To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 353825.97738...@web81803.mail.mud.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hello, Seems this is the month for errant 3458A DMMs. I have a unit that was working fine and passing both the power on and full Self Tests. The unit has been stored away for a few years and is very clean. After several days of continuous error free operation, is started kicking out the error: ? 114 System Error ? multislope rundown error ? At first, the error was only every few minutes (all default power on settings) but is now almost constant. I can clear the error and proceed for a few more seconds. It is also the only error in the stack. ? Suspicious of electrolytics, I checked all voltages and ripple on both outguard and inguard supplies with everything looking good. I did replaced some caps that showed barely low values. This unit is 11 years old. At this point, I am reasonably sure it is not power supply related. I am also sure it is not a cal related condition as I started a procedure and it would not get past the first offset section ? same error. ? Does anyone have any documentation of knowledge of this error? ERRSTR 114 is not mentioned in the Assembly Level Repair manual. Thanks. ? DonRegards... Don HP, for good reasons, never intended for anyone but themselves to do component-level repair, but they never expected the 3458 to be the last of the high-precision DMMs, either, so their expected useful life for these instruments was not the 20 or 30 years that some have racked up and are still going. And that's why they don't unpack the error strings in the docs. Rundown slope sounds like it might be a dual- slope ADC error, perhaps involving a film-type capacitor that has dielectric absorption problems, but this is a guess that's so far out in left field that you can't see it from here. Now don't forget those cotton gloves when you touch the boards, and *never* clean up the board after soldering. Dick Moore ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] new request for 3458A info
On Aug 2, 2009, at 5:00 AM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: Message: 4 Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 03:00:06 +0200 From: Dr. Frank Stellmach drfrank.stellm...@freenet.de Subject: [time-nuts] 3458A info To: time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 4a74e516.5020...@freenet.de Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Dick, did you already try an ACAL DCV, or ACAL ALL from the front panel? Maybe the false cal constants will be set correctly. In the calibration manual, its explained, which constants are set by atocal (and cured), and which one are set by basic calibration, requiring external standards (10 volt, 10kohm). I think, DAC Vos and 10V gain are set by ACAL. Frank Yes, tried all that. Last night I gave up and opened the box, which I had been reluctant to do -- DC board had burned components right in the center. There are 2 unrecognizable ICs and a handful of resistors, etc, and a badly charred board. Probably unrepairable. Have no idea what could have happened to make it so bad without also killing the power supplies, which are AOK. Shouldn't have been anything on the input, which is protected against over-voltage/-current. Too bad. Thanks for all the advice and tips. Dick Moore ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] new request for HP 3458A info
Thanks Greg Burnett and Frank Stellmach -- good suggestions. I should have provided a bit more info. On power up, the display usually shows: -OVLDDCV Then when I run self-test, I most often get the 209 error. The CAL? values are good, which is reassuring. I'm thinking it's in the DC front-end somewhere as Greg suggested. Frank, this instrument came to me completely untested and not powered up by the seller -- the power button and actuating shaft are missing, which makes me think it was in a lab or ATE setup where an accidental power off would cause big problems. It is in generally very good physical condition and is very clean. I don't have schematics for this box. I do have a right-of-return for refund, which I will most likely exercise. Best, Dick Moore On Aug 1, 2009, at 11:28 AM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: .. internal overload: 72 might be caused by a failure on calibration, as '72' might refer to the 'dcv 10V gain' (see calibration manual p. 5-6). Either an ACAL failed, caused by interrupting this process, or an attempt to calibrate the internal 7V reference has gone wrong, also because of interruption, or because of unstable / inappropiate external voltage reference. Please read out cal constant 72 by CAL? 72, on my instrument it's 1.00435... If you scroll the text to the rightmost, an additional string states if the calibration constant is valid. Then read out cal constant 2 by 'CAL? 2', that's the internal 7V reference. Should be betw0en 7,0V and 7,5 V, acc. to LTZ1000 datasheet, but typ. around 7,2V. It's 7,2165..V on my 3458A. Again, scroll the text righmost, if the constant is valid. If 7V ref constant is corrupted or out of range, a basic calibration might help. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] new request for 3458A info
OK, here's some further info -- I ran with Frank's suggestion and manually checked the CAL? values from 0 thru 253 (I don't have GPIB at the moment -- I will get a ProLogix card soon). All report valid -- except: 0 ---210, hardware failure, calibration required 61 ---128, vos dac invalid 72 ---dcv gain 10V invalid If this is a matter of tweaking something, that would be good. I think I have a pdf of the Calibration Manual -- I'll check it out. All thoughts and comments welcome, as always. Dick Moore ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] New request for HP 3458A info
I'm looking at an HP 3458A that boots up with a failure -- message is OVLD. Running the self test the first time returned the following: ERRSTR 209, HARDWARE FAILURE -- INTERNAL OVERLOAD: 72 I turned it off, waited a bit, turned it back on and got: ERRSTR 202, HARDWARE FAILURE -- SLAVE TEST: OVERLOAD A while later, powered up and got the original 209 error again. There are no further errors behind these two, just them. The Assembly Level Repair Manual has some error codes, but no details -- it appears to be a fault in the DC measurement section. Anybody seen either of these errors before, or have any idea what's wrong? Any and all help appreciated. The power supplies appear to be working correctly. Dick Moore ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Volt-nuts cooperation?
A couple of times a year, I could really use an HP 3458A. No way can I justify spending upwards of $4-5k for such limited use. So, maybe some of us could form a buyer/user group to share the cost of one of these instruments, which could put it in the range of affordability for each. For example, ten of us could have the instrument for two weeks each twice a year, and the cost for each comes down to that for a 34401A. These instruments ship well (at least within the continental US, via FedEx or UPS), are very stable, and self-calibrate, needing a full cal (which uses a 10kohm resistor and a 10VDC source) once every couple of years to keep within tolerable specs. I've rented one once and I found that it really needed to self-cal once every couple of days to stay repeatable, especially on ohms and AC. My confidence in my Fluke 5440B Direct Valtage Calibrator, two Fluke 732A 10V standards, and two Datron 1082 7-1/2-digit DMMs would go way up, not to mention keeping a few other things checked and accounted for, like resistance standards. I'm willing to ante-up up to $1k to get us started, if there is any interest here among the US time-nuts. Best to reply to me at: rich...@hughes.net. We can work our details if the interest is sufficient. Best, Dick Moore ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Need volt-nuts help
Hey Ed, thanks for the tips. The DC-200 has a quite different meter system based on the pix of the DC-150 you linked to. I did find a manual for sale for a model DC-200AR, and have inquired if the 200AR is at all similar to the 200C. If it is, I'm good to go. Thanks, Dick Moore On Jun 7, 2009, at 5:00 AM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: -- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 17:11:30 -0600 From: Ed Palmer ed_pal...@sasktel.net Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Need volt-nuts help To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 4a2af7a2.7010...@sasktel.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Sounds similar to one that I've got. CSC stands for Calibration Standards Corporation. Mine is DC-110B, but it looks identical to: http://cgi.ebay.ca/Precision-DC-Null-Voltmeter-DC-150B_W0QQitemZ290321205779 . I've seen an identical unit under the Honeywell brand. There are manuals on *Bay for similar units. Search for calibration standards voltmeter I'd guess that the meter section is similar in all of them. I don't have a manual for mine, unfortunately. Ed Dick Moore wrote: You all are an amazing resource, so even if this is not time-nuts material, someone of you may be able to shed some light. I picked up a differential voltmeter made by Precision Measurements Corp. It says it's brand is CSC (no info on what this stands for), model DC 200C. In general, it is similar to a Fluke 885 but with a much more readable meter, larger easier to use knobs, and overall fewer parts; plus a lot more empty space. The null detector/voltmeter section is not working, but the power supply and K-V divider are fine, as are all the switches. I've checked various sites for manuals with no luck, and also Googled and found nothing. Rather than try now to reverse engineer the schematic, I'm hoping one of you may know something about this machine. If nothing else it will be an interesting platform for play. Thx, Dick Moore ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 19:54:17 -0400 From: neon John j...@johngsbbq.com Subject: [time-nuts] OT: Timer-counter wanted To: time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 4a2b01a9.3040...@johngsbbq.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hey guys, I'm looking for a counter/timer for my lab. I don't need anything of Time Nuts grade, just a general purpose counter. I don't do sleazebay plus I'd rather pass a few bux to a fellow time nutter. So if you have a spare one of fairly recent vintage, preferably not containing a cooling fan, drop me a note. Please reply off-list: j...@neon-john.com Thanks John -- John DeArmond Tellico Plains, Occupied TN http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77 -- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 23:20:22 -0400 From: lstosk...@cox.net Subject: [time-nuts] Re :rubidium osc box To: time-nuts@febo.com Cc: time-nuts-requ...@febo.com Message-ID: 20090606232022.m9rfi.220465.im...@eastrmwml46 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 If you want to go totally crazy on a shielded box, check out Electronic Goldmine's MU metal sticky shielding. Used to be used on CRT shields, etc. Probably not needed, but should kill a bunch of LF noise. Make a sandwich over the wires entering the box, etc. N0UU -- ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 59, Issue 15 * ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Need volt-nuts help
You all are an amazing resource, so even if this is not time-nuts material, someone of you may be able to shed some light. I picked up a differential voltmeter made by Precision Measurements Corp. It says it's brand is CSC (no info on what this stands for), model DC 200C. In general, it is similar to a Fluke 885 but with a much more readable meter, larger easier to use knobs, and overall fewer parts; plus a lot more empty space. The null detector/voltmeter section is not working, but the power supply and K-V divider are fine, as are all the switches. I've checked various sites for manuals with no luck, and also Googled and found nothing. Rather than try now to reverse engineer the schematic, I'm hoping one of you may know something about this machine. If nothing else it will be an interesting platform for play. Thx, Dick Moore ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
