Re: [time-nuts] Resistance components interested.
I would be interested, ...please put me on the list. Thank you Don Lewis N5CID Austin, TX === === On Sat, 2018-05-19 at 13:19 -0400, paul swed wrote: > Apologies to everyone as this part of Doug's offer isn't time nuts. > Doug I am interested in the R's > Please contact me directly > paulsw...@gmail.com > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/t > ime-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5372A
Hi Magnus... Appreciate any help! I participate in the ARRL Frequency Measuring Test, and I would like to automate the measuring process. I have two frequencies, A and B... A is a GPS locked HP 3336B set to 455,000.000 Hz I use the 3336B instead of the 455,000Hz BFO signal from my GPS locked Racal receiver so that I can measure AM stations without the annoying beat note. ;-) B is an IF signal which should appear between 455,000.000Hz and 455,001.000 Hz I would like the 5372A to calculate the B minus A delta, over a manually started and automatically stopped measurement period of 110 seconds. I would like a delta resolution of 0.001Hz to be developed by the box. Now, there will be doppler. I want the box to analyze and give me a best statistical guess for the B minus A delta. BTW the B minus A delta will be added to the frequency of my Racal receiver to give me the best "guess" as to the correct frequency of the target signal. The Racal reads out to the Hz, and I am able to accurately determine if the Racal is tuned above or below the "target" frequency. I will be tuned below the "target" and within 1 Hz of the "target." I assume I will be in the one frequency mode. Can the box give me the desired resolution? What sampling period would be the best to use? What statistical result would I use as my delta? Appreciate your help. My head is spinning whenever I get into the operating manual! TNX... 73 Don W4WJ In a message dated 5/10/2018 2:19:49 AM Central Standard Time, mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org writes: Hi, What issues do you have? Cheers, Magnus On 05/08/2018 02:32 AM, Don Murray via time-nuts wrote: > Hello Time Nuts... > > > > Who is the resident expert on the HP5372A? > > I have some operational questions. ;-) > > email off list please. w4wj at aol.com > > TNX all... > > 73 > Don > W4WJ > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP 5372A
Hello Time Nuts... Who is the resident expert on the HP5372A? I have some operational questions. ;-) email off list please. w4wj at aol.com TNX all... 73 Don W4WJ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TV Signals as a frequency reference
Dana... Back in the day when out of studio news stories were shot on film, which was then processed at the studio and broadcast from a "film chain" stations would lock their sync generators to the incoming network signal during network hours. That allowed "clean" switching in and out of network programming. When you were in the local programming portion of the day, the local sync generator would not be "looking" at the network signal for reference. That was done because there may have been times when the AT&T microwave network was down for maintenance. Obviously this was before the days of satellite delivery of the network services. You are correct... when the "Live Truck" came on the scene with instant on scene video, etc, the demand for frame syncs at each station went up. Our first frame sync at, WTVJ in Miami, had been used at the Cape for some of the moon shots. It was a huge box, occupying about two feet of rack space! Later frame syncs, would drop in size to 1RU! All those frame syncs were locked to our local master sync generator. At one of our monitoring positions I could compare our local 3.58MHz color burst frequency to the networks and adjust the phase so they were in agreement. This was just a good method of checking our "in house" reference to have it on frequency. If the 3.58 was on frequency, all the other outputs from the master sync generator would be correct. Later sync generators were GPS disciplined. BTW... our later model analog transmitter was GPS locked with one of the original HP boxes. I remember ordering the HP and then WAITING forever for it to arrive. ;-) In the interim, the transmitter ran on it's TCXO box. We had twice yearly frequency measurements done by a monitoring service up the coast. 73 Don W4WJ In a message dated 3/31/2018 11:04:12 AM Central Standard Time, k8yumdoo...@gmail.com writes: I'e always been curious as to why TV stations did not lock at least their in-house equipment to the network feed as a means to avoid spending money on frame syncs. Remote coverage, on the other hand, would of course open a new can of worms. But compared to the cost of building and powering a TV station and associated studios etc, a Rb or three cost a mere drop in the bucket to buy and maintain, so I'm baffled as to why stations in general did not at use them on a regular basis. Dana On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 12:43 AM, Hal Murray wrote: > > As noted earlier, color burst references were a big deal a long time ago. > > Thanks. I was fishing for something modern, maybe a bit clock out of the > digital receiver. > > I'm assuming that the digital stream is locked to the carrier. That may > not > be correct. > > > -- > These are my opinions. I hate spam. > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TV Signals as a frequency reference
Hello all... One limitation, back in the day, when the network signal was being passed thru to the local markets... Many stations used a frame sync to time the network signal to the local house signal. In other words the network reference was stripped and retimed to the house so as to avoid picture roll during switching transitions between local and network programming. So that meant that the local and network signals were locked to the local sync generator which used a fairly stable TCXO, not cesium or Rb. Other stations would trim their local oscillator to match the network phase without the need for a frame sync. This meant that someone was responsible for monitoring how their local oscillator was tracking against the network. I spent over 35 years at WTVJ in Miami and over the years we had an inventory of over 40 frame syncs to lock remote feeds to house sync. 73 Don W4WJ In a message dated 3/30/2018 4:54:36 PM Central Standard Time, fgr...@otiengineering.com writes: Hal Murray (hmur...@megapathdsl.net) said: "Roughly 40 years ago, a friend showed me a NBS booklet describing a scheme for distributing time via TV. I forget the details. It was a cooperative project with one of the major networks. NBS published the propagation delays which changed occasionally as the phone companies providing the underlying links rerouted things. This is an IEEE article from 1972 that looks like a good fit: Nationwide Precise Time and Frequency Distribution Utilizing an Active Code Within Network Television Broadcasts DAVID A. HOWE https://www.researchgate.net/publication/3092613"; I was a TV Broadcast Engineer in the 70s. There were a number of schemes for transmitting frequency standard information via the TV signal. One used the VITS signal referenced above. Another used a cesium standard to control the 3.58 MHz (actually 3.579545454... MHz) color burst signal. There were several articles in the hobbyist press at the time on using this for a standard. You had to be careful to use a network program, however; most local station could not afford a cesium reference for something like that. (Actually, the station I worked for had one but it was used for controlling the transmitter frequency. Long story). Now that analog TV has gone away, so have these signals. Francis Grosz ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Need a Watch Recommendation
Hi Bill... My Rolex GMT Master was stolen back in '75, so no luck on that. Rolex is a bit pricey for my needs. My Seiko CQ001M, one of the first Seiko Digitals, was amazing. Over the time I had it, it varied less than plus/minus 1 second against WWV. I carried a Radio Shack Time Kube with me, when I was challeneged, as to the accuracy of that watch! It died many years later, and the replacement innards were totally "loose!" Yes, I think that Time Kube qualifies me as a "Old School Time Nut! ;-) TNX Bill. 73 Don W4WJ In a message dated 3/5/2018 1:31:04 AM Central Standard Time, wb...@gci.net writes: My 37 year old Rolex day-date gains less than 2 sec/day compared to GPS clock. Rolex standard is +6/-2 sec/day. Regards, NL7F On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 01:38:06 -0500, Don Murray via time-nuts wrote: >Hello Time Nuts... >-� >After 6 years of no troubles, in sync with WWV any >hour of the day, flawless transfer between >standard and daylight time my Stauer Titanium >Atomic wristwatch bite the dust a year ago. >-� >Since then, Stauer has sent me three replacements, >each with some type of problem. -� >-� >So it looks as if I am in need of a new wristwatch, >which will give me some kind of time accuracy. >-� >So, Time Nuts... -�any suggestions or recommendations? >-� >TNX >-� >73 >Don >W4WJ >___ >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >and follow the instructions there. Bill Beam NL7F ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Need a Watch Recommendation
Hello Time Nuts... After 6 years of no troubles, in sync with WWV any hour of the day, flawless transfer between standard and daylight time my Stauer Titanium Atomic wristwatch bite the dust a year ago. Since then, Stauer has sent me three replacements, each with some type of problem. So it looks as if I am in need of a new wristwatch, which will give me some kind of time accuracy. So, Time Nuts... any suggestions or recommendations? TNX 73 Don W4WJ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP nixie counters, free!
Hi Scott I have two of these counters and just love them. With the proper 'tuned-cavity' plugins, they can measure into the gigahertz. Such nostalgia. Unfortunately, I am in Austin, TX. They are heavy! Want to meet in Atlanta hihi. Seriously, ...if you have any left over, with no homes, I might be interested in just the Nixie readout modules, if you would ship some to me. I'll pay shipping, of course. Don N5CID === On Fri, 2018-01-05 at 13:10 -0500, David Scott Coburn wrote: > Hi All, > > I have some old HP nixie tube counters (5245Ls) which I would like to > give away to a good home. See the attached photo. (Sorry for the > poor quality.) > > Some of them power on, some of them do not. I don't think any of > them actually work correctly. They would be good for parts. > > I am giving these away for free to anyone who is interested. > > I would rather not have to box these up and ship them. I am located > on Long Island (NY) and would be willing to drive them part way > (within reason!) to meet if you are willing. > > I tried Craig's list with no luck. I do not want the hassle of eBay. > > If no one is interested I will probably tear them down and get the > various parts into the right metal recycling bins at the landfill > (sadly). > > Thanks, > > Scott > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi- > bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] General Radio Model 723D Precision Oscillator (Tuning Fork)
Thank you, Pete. -Don == On Sat, 2017-12-09 at 05:57 -0800, Pete Lancashire wrote: > Here's a look at a 723-C (1,000 cps) and how its power supply cap was > handled and a good look inside > > https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/vintage-teardown-general-radio- > 723-c-vacuum-tube-tuning-fork/ > > > The GR Experimenter > > http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-General-Radio/GR%20Exp%20 > 1941_10.pdf > > There is another Experimenter that goes into how the tuningfork was > made > but can't find it > > -pete > > On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 5:18 AM, Don wrote: > > > > > > > > > I was fortunate to find a vintage, General Radio (GR) Model 723D > > > Precision Oscillator (tuning fork). > > > > > > The exceptional wooden case is as 'exciting' to look at as is the > > > mechanical tuning fork inside (400Hz). > > > > > > As it is ac powered, I'll need to recap it before I turn it on. > > > Then, we can test for accuracy! (sic). > > > > > > A real class-act, 'time-nut' oscillator from the last century, > > > predating crystals. > > > > > > Don > > > > > > Don Lewis > > > Austin, TX > > > N5CID > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/t > ime-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] General Radio Model 723D Precision Oscillator (Tuning Fork)
> I was fortunate to find a vintage, General Radio (GR) Model 723D > Precision Oscillator (tuning fork). > > The exceptional wooden case is as 'exciting' to look at as is the > mechanical tuning fork inside (400Hz). > > As it is ac powered, I'll need to recap it before I turn it on. > Then, we can test for accuracy! (sic). > > A real class-act, 'time-nut' oscillator from the last century, > predating crystals. > > Don > > Don Lewis > Austin, TX > N5CID > > > > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] GPS III
I read where the first GPS III satellite had finally been approved for flight. The report said they will provide three times better location accuracy than current GPS. Will "better" onboard clocks help contribute to this improvement? How are they "better"? Can we expect enhanced timing accuracy from the timing receivers we use in our homemade GPSDO's?. -Don N5CID ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWV 25 MHz antenna switched to circular polarization
FYI... I was hearing WWV/25 several weeks ago peaking S8 here in Central Texas... WWV/20 was inaudible! ;-) Path 155 degrees 795 miles... Below from the NIST.gov Web Page: As of 2042 UTC 7 July 2017 the 25 MHz broadcast is now on a turnstile antenna with circular polarization and will remain in this configuration until after the solar eclipse on 21 Aug 2017. Signal reports are requested. 73 Don W4WJ In a message dated 7/14/2017 12:47:12 PM Central Standard Time, paulsw...@gmail.com writes: Gregory,I have to be honest and say I didn't even think wwv was on 25 MHz anymore.Son of a gun. I will have to listen.PaulWB8TSLOn Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 1:14 PM, Gregory Beat wrote:> As reported by ARRL, a few days ago, on July 7th the 25 MHz antenna for> WWV was changed to circular polarization.> http://www.arrl.org/news/wwv-25-mhz-signal-swapped-to-> circular-polarization>> Matt Deutch, N0RGT the Lead electrical engineer at WWV said it’s hoped> that the latest antenna change to circular polarization might be helpful to> anyone studying radio propagation (ionosphere) during next month’s total> solar eclipse (August 21, 2017), which will be visible across the US.> “My effort right now is focused on getting the word out, just to make> people are aware that [the 25-MHz signal] is available, if it can be useful> to them.”>> greg, w9gb> Sent from iPad Air> ___> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com> To unsubscrib e, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> and follow the instructions there.>___time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.comTo unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nutsand follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Something for all TIME NUTS!!
Hello all... For the SERIOUS time nut... you might want to give yourself a few hours before you go check out this site... and beyond!! 73 Don W4WJ https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/time-services/manufacturers-time-and-frequency-receivers ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Charles Wenzel GPSDO
I couldn't agree more! I have converted loads of equipment to the so-called 'standard' Power Pole. What a disappointment. IMO, they are poorly designed and ineffective. Sure, they offer commonality, but at what cost? The DO come apart easily, and if the radio (equipment) happens to be on, voltage spikes (pulses) can be induced, causing intermittent operation (resetting memories) or death to the unit. Like Lemmings over a cliff... they are used. I really do not like these connectors. Don N5CID -Original Message- From: Wes Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 8:50 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Charles Wenzel GPSDO Although I've reluctantly bought into the amateur radio "standardization" hype of Power Poles and have a distribution panel with a plethora of them, I basically dislike them. The ones on my Elecraft K3 and K3S pull out frequently when I move the radios and installing them is a PITA. I never had such problems with radios with Molex connectors. Wes Stewart On 6/21/2017 2:36 PM, Brooke Clarke wrote: Hi Chuck: I'd replace the push on DC power connector with a high force Power Pole. I can't count how many times one of these push on connectors has worked itself loose. http://www.prc68.com/I/PowerPole.shtml ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The ultraAtomic clock for home
I have had a Stauer Titanium Atomic wristwatch for 6 years. Never had a problem. Never have had to set it. Still on the original battery. Automatic DST. Analog dial for hours and minutes... digital display for seconds and month/date. It is always in step with WWV... ;-) 73 Don W4WJ In a message dated 4/4/2017 9:01:45 P.M. Central Daylight Time, tsho...@gmail.com writes: I have been happy with the Casio Waveceptor watches. They can display UTC. They seem to reliably set themselves between midnight and 3AM each morning when I'm wearing them here in Maryland, more reliably than the (non-PSK) WWVB wall clocks. The Casio WV58A-1AVCR is a plastic LCD watch for $28 that lasts a couple years. The face scuffs easily and the band only lasts a little more than a year before needing replacement. I upgraded to the Metal-body-metal-band Casio WVA-M640D-1ACR almost a year ago and am very happy. Analog display for local time, and the LCD display can show UTC. About $90. Tim N3QE ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] WTB: OCXO for Fury
Season Greetings to all, I have a Jackson Labs Fury with off-board connectors for the oscillator which I would like to change it to be self-contained with an on-board OCXO. Does anyone have an MTI Series 270, 241 or 230 that they would like to sell. Comments welcome on any other well behaved oscillator model that might fit on the Fury board. I've used several HP oscillators over time and never been really happy with the combination compared to a TB with MV89A and also looking to simplify the Fury arrangement and not have to have separate mounting and extra 24V for the OCXO. Regards, Don ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TICC Timestamping / Time Interval Counter -- Available to Order
Hi Jim: From a hardware multi drop viewpoint, the CAN Bus seems on paper to be simplest… 2 120 ohm resistors and a twisted pair… Don > On Dec 8, 2016, at 8:40 AM, jimlux wrote: > > On 12/8/16 6:18 AM, John Ackermann N8UR wrote: >> Hi Luciano -- >> >> The expanded-channels scenario would use one TICC/Arduino pair for each >> set of channels. It would require much redesign to stack multiple TICCs >> on a single Arduino, and I don't think one board would have the power to >> handle it. >> >> What I envisioned would be a set of TICC/Arduinos each putting their >> data on USB, and then something like a RPi receiving the multiple USB >> data streams and serving as a control unit that might multiplex the data >> onto a single ethernet stream, or do processing/storage itself. >> >> At this point, the TICC board includes the connections to allow multiple >> boards to be synchronized but we haven't implemented the full system yet >> -- in part because until now there are only 4 working TICCs in the >> world, and they are in 3 locations! >> > > > > This is the strategy I would use. I've been using a lot of Teensy boards (a > small Arduino clone from http://www.pjrc.com) for data acquisition, radar > controls, and the like. (see, e.g. FINDER > http://blogs.mathworks.com/headlines/2016/04/25/how-nasas-microwave-radar-designed-for-space-saved-lives-after-earthquake/) > > > I went through a variety of approaches - a multichannel data acquisition > system from NI, etc. - this worked out the best - each little processor deals > with ONE thing and one thing only, and streams the data out the serial port > (emulated by USB) to a host processor which collects the data, aligns it, > does all the post processing, etc. > > For synchronization among multiple units, there's an input pin on each > processor that I use as the sync input, driven either from a 1pps or from > another of the processors (e.g. with a configuration where I've' got 1 > transmitter and 4 receivers, the transmitter sends the sync pulse, and the > receivers all use that to sync their side) > > We have been working on using something other than USB to collect the data: > probably a shared RS485 type multidrop interface. Our cumulative data rate > isn't huge and most readily available host processors (PC, RPi, BBB, etc.) > don't have lots of independent interfaces - they tend to have one or two or > three of something. > > The other approach we're looking at is making our own "data aggregator" with > another teensy - if that's all it has to do, then even using a "soft UART" > off a programmable IO pin is probably good enough to merge a dozen 10kbps > streams into one. > > BTW- > USB has all sorts of weird idiosyncracies as you propagate down through the > succession of 4 port hubs, particularly with respect to power management > (hubs can turn downstream ports on and off, but have to be able to be woken > up), and most operating systems don't deal well with it. > Among Linux, Windows, and OS X, they all run into trouble with the OS's model > of the power state of all the downstream hubs not matching the actual state.. > it's a *hard* problem, and in a consumer environment, you tell them to just > "unplug and replug" - that triggers a wakeup and re-enumeration of the tree. > > I will add that almost all modern OS versions handle the USB serial number > thing so that devices retain their same identity, no matter where they happen > to be in the USB tree, and what's going on with enumeration. No more do you > deal with the the "COM port number changing capriciously", assuming your > serial port supplier is following the rules. > > (Of course, we DO have code that goes out and tries all possible com ports > and probes them for our device, just in case) > > > _______ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. Lucky is he who has been able to understand the causes of things. Virgil --- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham, AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC, 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mailing address: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com <http://www.lightningforensics.com/> www.sixmilesystems.com <http://www.sixmilesystems.com/> ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Question on LH
So some more specific detail in how I am running LH with multiple TBs. I am actually running three instances of LH all with unique command line input for each TB and each with a different COM port specified. The three TBs are running from the same antenna using a Symmetricom 5853A 4-way splitter. One of the TBs is standard while the other two have MV89A oscillators. All three TBs can accept unique commands and I continuously run the three instances of LH on a dedicated laptop running Win10. I moved my antenna recently so I started the precision antenna survey on the two TBs with the MV89A oscillators. They are each about 40% done and I wanted to understand better what to do at the conclusion of the run. It is not really a question concerning multiple TBs running simultaneous but my question is rather I have to manually enter anything or is the precision coordinates entered automatically at the end of the run. In my case, each TB will act as if it were running alone. From Chris's expl anation, it sounds like everything is automatic at the end of the run and the new derived double-precision average is enter automatically. Don -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark Sims Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:33 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Question on LH No, the SL keyboard command on TSIP receivers should do the "multiple-single-point-surveys-until-it-gets-close" thing to set the lat/lon/alt to better than single precision floating point accuracy. . The advantage of doing a full 48-hour survey is that the surveyed position was calculated by the receiver and might have characteristics that are unique to that receivers' hardware. - > So need to do two long surveys then - what a pain ... ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Question on LH
I'm using the latest version of LH connected to two Thunderbolts. Whenever I do a precision 48-hour antenna survey, I'm confused on if the derived best coordinates are automatically loaded into the Lat & Lon registers when it completes. What is the procedure at the completion of the precision survey or is it completely automatic? Thanks, Don ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RF cables and connectors
Perrier... Great site... The correct URL is: http://www.brackemfg.com/ 73 Don W4WJ In a message dated 12/3/2016 4:40:27 P.M. Central Standard Time, time-nuts@febo.com writes: List, I recently bout a couple of USB male to USB male cables from Newegg. About two weeks later I received a catalog from: Brake Manufacturing LLC. They make inter-connecting cables for almost any type of connector with almost any type of co-ax as well as selling almost any RF connector one can imagine. You can different types of connectors on the ends of each cable. Prices for a simple 3 foot cable start around $30. WWW.BRAKEMFG.COM Regards, Perrier ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Questionable content webcomic channels some time nuttery
glad there are some other readers out there… > On Nov 7, 2016, at 8:33 AM, Christopher Hoover wrote: > > +1 > > On Nov 7, 2016 4:05 PM, "Gregory Maxwell" wrote: > >> http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3346 >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. Lucky is he who has been able to understand the causes of things. Virgil --- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham, AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC, 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mailing address: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com <http://www.lightningforensics.com/> www.sixmilesystems.com <http://www.sixmilesystems.com/> ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Satellite TV messed up, how is GPS time
Peter... The rise in the noise floor on Ku was not sufficient to cause programming outage. When I was running the satellite receive system in Miami, we never had problems with Ku downlinks during the twice yearly sun outage. My customers in the news department got very upset when their C-Band feeds went into the dumper. They didn't understand why some of the satellite feeds (Ku), including DirecTV and Dish, were not affected. Don W4WJ In a message dated 11/4/2016 5:04:53 P.M. Central Daylight Time, petervince1...@gmail.com writes: Sorry Don, I beg to differ. The effects are often not noticeable in these days of digital television, but the noise-floor can definitely be seen to rise dramatically on a spectrum analyser. Regards (ex BBC TV, London) On 4 November 2016 at 21:51, Don Murray via time-nuts wrote: DirecTV and DishNetwork are on Ku-Band platforms. Ku-Band is not affected by sun outage. Don W4WJ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Satellite TV messed up, how is GPS time
DirecTV and DishNetwork are on Ku-Band platforms. Ku-Band is not affected by sun outage. Don W4WJ In a message dated 11/4/2016 3:52:33 P.M. Central Daylight Time, paulsw...@gmail.com writes: U with respect to direct TV is it the noramal two time per year sun outage its about the right time. Regards Paul. On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 4:47 PM, Norm n3ykf wrote: > Tmobile clock on cell off. Garmin fenix3 watch is correct. > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 4:19 PM, Don Murray via time-nuts > wrote: > > No problems here with FOX on Dish, Ch 205 > > > > Don > > W4WJ > > > > > > > > In a message dated 11/4/2016 1:45:21 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > > bill.i...@pobox.com writes: > > > > Satellite TV (Dish, Direct, etc) has been having trouble for 10 hours or > > so, sometimes losing some channels and occasionally all of them. > > > > Fox News is consistently down, so it could have a human cause, but Space > > Weather says we have unusual solar activity. > > > > I no longer have GPS time receivers, so I wonder how GPS is doing. > > > > Thanks for any comments. > > > > Bill Hawkins > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Satellite TV messed up, how is GPS time
No problems here with FOX on Dish, Ch 205 Don W4WJ In a message dated 11/4/2016 1:45:21 P.M. Central Daylight Time, bill.i...@pobox.com writes: Satellite TV (Dish, Direct, etc) has been having trouble for 10 hours or so, sometimes losing some channels and occasionally all of them. Fox News is consistently down, so it could have a human cause, but Space Weather says we have unusual solar activity. I no longer have GPS time receivers, so I wonder how GPS is doing. Thanks for any comments. Bill Hawkins ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Atomic Watch
I’m really glad that the article was edited for clarity. Don > On Oct 18, 2016, at 5:12 AM, Clint Jay wrote: > > I am peeking in as a mere amateur and that article hurts my brain, I cannot > imagine how hard some folk here must be battering their heads against their > desks. > > Oh, and it's not the first either, this one was a year prior... > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/01/hoptroff_shows_first_atomic_watch_movement/ > > http://www.hoptroff.com/collections/atomic-timepieces > > On 18 October 2016 at 12:00, Tim Shoppa wrote: > >> If I saw a chess playing machine that had a bunch of gears and levers, AND >> A LITTLE HUMAN INSIDE, and the proprietor was bragging about how well the >> human had been trained relative to the military, I would spend all my time >> wondering how much of the work the human was doing. Even if the combination >> played simply awful chess. >> >> Tim N3QE >> >> On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 9:45 PM, Jim Palfreyman >> wrote: >> >>> Well I think there's a mistake or two here... >>> >>> https://www.inverse.com/article/20497-john-patterson-atomic-ce >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > > > -- > Clint. > > *No trees were harmed in the sending of this mail. However, a large number > of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.* > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. Lucky is he who has been able to understand the causes of things. Virgil --- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham, AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC, 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mailing address: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com <http://www.lightningforensics.com/> www.sixmilesystems.com <http://www.sixmilesystems.com/> ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Anyone looking for HP 5060A parts/modules?
Skip... Would there be enough parts to make one whole unit??? Even if it had problems, ..it could be the basis of a future working unit for me. ?? I'll pay shipping for all the parts, if that is a reasonable request/ offer. Thank you -Don Don Lewis N5CID -Original Message- From: Skip Withrow Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 2:51 PM To: time-nuts Subject: [time-nuts] Anyone looking for HP 5060A parts/modules? Hello time-nuts, I have acquired three boxes of modules and parts to Hewlett-Packard 5060A cesium standards. As I don't have one of these units they are excess to my needs. Don't know if anyone still has one of these units ticking as they are quite old and cesium tubes have probably long expired. However, if you do have a need let me know and I will see if I can help. Please contact me off lest. Regards, Skip Withrow ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SR620 Problem
Sure, my original post ask for anyone in the US as I live in Springfield Missouri but I will be happy to ship anywhere in the states. I have the complete schematics for the unit. Was hoping to find someone specializing in SRS equipment or already having repair experience with the SR620. Regards, Don -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Tom Miller Sent: Monday, August 29, 2016 4:37 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] SR620 Problem You might say where you are. Maybe someone lives close that can assist you. Regards, Tom - Original Message - From: "Don@True-Cal" To: "'Time Nuts Group'" Sent: Monday, August 29, 2016 5:17 PM Subject: [time-nuts] SR620 Problem > Hello All, > > > > Sorry if this is a repeat but not showing up in my sent mail. Changed the > list address slightly. > > > > I'm looking for someone that has repair experience on the SR620 TIC. I > have > a failed unit that has previously worked perfectly for many years while > running continuously on my lab bench. The failure occurred after a very > dirty mains power failure during a storm. There was no other evidence of a > severe lightning strike so I suspect just a major power line glitch. I > have > a second unit so time to repair is not critical. I have checked and > confirmed all of the power supplies and eliminated all of the easy fix > scenarios already. The major symptom is absolutely no display of > indicators > or readout (unit looks to be off), -DROPOUT form the PS is ok. I believe > the > loss of LED and display is from the processor stopped U131B flop. I don't > have sufficient confidence, let alone spare IC to delve into the processor > chain. Is there someone in the US with this experience that I can send > this > unit to for repair. Being retired and all this just being a major hobby > makes repair cost a big concern. > > > > Regards. > > Don J. > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] SR620 Problem
Hello All, Sorry if this is a repeat but not showing up in my sent mail. Changed the list address slightly. I'm looking for someone that has repair experience on the SR620 TIC. I have a failed unit that has previously worked perfectly for many years while running continuously on my lab bench. The failure occurred after a very dirty mains power failure during a storm. There was no other evidence of a severe lightning strike so I suspect just a major power line glitch. I have a second unit so time to repair is not critical. I have checked and confirmed all of the power supplies and eliminated all of the easy fix scenarios already. The major symptom is absolutely no display of indicators or readout (unit looks to be off), -DROPOUT form the PS is ok. I believe the loss of LED and display is from the processor stopped U131B flop. I don't have sufficient confidence, let alone spare IC to delve into the processor chain. Is there someone in the US with this experience that I can send this unit to for repair. Being retired and all this just being a major hobby makes repair cost a big concern. Regards. Don J. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] SR620 Problem
Hello All, I'm looking for someone that has repair experience on the SR620 TIC. I have a failed unit that has previously worked perfectly for many years while running continuously on my lab bench. The failure occurred after a very dirty mains power failure during a storm. There was no other evidence of a severe lightning strike so I suspect just a major power line glitch. I have a second unit so time to repair is not critical. I have checked and confirmed all of the power supplies and eliminated all of the easy fix scenarios already. The major symptom is absolutely no display of indicators or readout (unit looks to be off), -DROPOUT form the PS is ok. I believe the loss of LED and display is from the processor stopped U131B flop. I don't have sufficient confidence, let alone spare IC to delve into the processor chain. Is there someone in the US with this experience that I can send this unit to for repair. Being retired and all this just being a major hobby makes repair cost a big concern. Regards. Don J. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT stuffing boards: was GPS interface/prototyping board
I do not see why a small pick and place assist system could not be built on a 3-d printer. Don > On Jun 24, 2016, at 8:32 AM, Attila Kinali wrote: > > On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 20:16:34 -0500 > Oz-in-DFW wrote: > >> 1. Pick and place machines use a lot of floor space (even for the >>"small" ones are more than 1/2 a bench.) >> 2. Even the best ones require pretty continuous tuning. If you aren't >>using them continuously each new run is a new and different >>experience. Often unpleasant for the first few scrapped boards. > > The trick is to use semi-manual pick&place machines for low volumes. > Ie machines that you do not program, but guide by hand. This allows > faster and more accurate placing of components than would be possible > with a pure manual process, but does not have any of the complexity > of the fully automated solutions. The components do not need to be > 100% exactly centered, as the surface tension of the molten solder will > pull the parts into place (which is also the reason why the copper inside > the solder resist mask should be symmetric). > > These machines are still all pretty expensive (IMHO, the cheapest > start from around 2kusd IIRC), but with the continuous growth of the hobbyist > market, and that market becomming more and more professional/proficient, > the production volumes of these machines will for sure rise and thus become > cheaper. I am pretty sure that we will see hobbyist marketed pick&place > systems > build upon open source based control systems in the next couple of years. > There are already a couple of DIY systems out there, that look quite good. > e.g http://vpapanik.blogspot.de/2012/11/low-budget-manual-pick-place.html > http://www.briandorey.com/post/Diy-Manual-Pick-and-Place-Machine-part-1 > > >> Solder stencils make **all** the difference. > > Oh, yes! Please, do not try syringe dispensers! These fail more often than > they work. Also pay the additional couple of bucks to get a steel stencil > instead of a kapton one. Especially if you make more than one or two boards > or those with fine pitch. > > Attila Kinali > > -- > It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All > the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no > use without that foundation. > -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. Lucky is he who has been able to understand the causes of things. Virgil --- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham, AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC, 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mailing address: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com <http://www.lightningforensics.com/> www.sixmilesystems.com <http://www.sixmilesystems.com/> ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Measuring receiver...
Yes, very simple for people, very difficult for “machinery”. Don > On Jun 21, 2016, at 7:01 PM, William H. Fite wrote: > > In the days of my misspent youth, I worked as a telegrapher (one of the > very last) for a Norwegian shipping line. We sent and received both > Norwegian and English though few of us were bilingual. Between ships and > shore stations, there were about forty of us and we all could recognize > each other's "fists" with near-perfect accuracy. This is not difficult, > gentlemen, and does not require any esoteric signal analysis. Transmitters > would be a different story. > > Bill KJ4SLP > > > > On Tuesday, June 21, 2016, John Ackermann N8UR <mailto:j...@febo.com>> wrote: > >> I've seen references that at least by the latter part of WW2 oscillographs >> were being used to identify transmitters and/or ops. It should be possible >> to deduce chirp, rise time, fall time of signals, all of which characterize >> the transmitter, as well as element spacing and other characteristics that >> help identify the operator, from oscilloscope snapshots of the demodulated >> audio at various sweep speeds. >> >> >>> On Jun 21, 2016, at 7:02 PM, Alan Melia > > wrote: >>> >>> TX "fingerprinting" in WWII >>> You seem to be forgetting that there were very few of the sophisticated >> digital timing systems were available 75 years ago. Traffic analysis was >> started early in 1938 or even before. By 1939 we knew all the nets used in >> Europe and had "Y" ( a corruption of WI, Wireless Intercept )operators >> monitoring the nets. Many of these were amateurs and they were allocated to >> specific nets and followed them around as they moved. They became very >> familiar with the "accents" of operators on their nets, and particularly >> before 1939 security procedures were very lax and "chatting" >> common-place.but it was all aural. >>> >>> I suspect serious transmitter parameter logging was not done before the >> cold war when spectrum analysers, or at least pan-adapters became more >> readily available. To keep a little OnTopic .you would have difficulty >> doing this with a BC-221.!! :-)) A crystal clock of this period was at >> least one fully utilised 6foot 19inch rack (there is one at Grenwich.) >>> Alan >>> G3NYK >>> >>> >>> Alan >>> G3NYK >>> >>> - Original Message - From: "jimlux" > > >>> To: > >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 10:02 PM >>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Measuring receiver... >>> >>> >>>>> On 6/21/16 11:28 AM, Brooke Clarke wrote: >>>>> Hi: >>>>> >>>>> During W.W.II there were secret methods of "fingerprinting" radio >>>>> transmitters and separately the operators. >>>>> I suspect the transmitter fingerprinting involved things like frequency >>>>> accuracy, stability, CW rise and decay time, &Etc. For the operator >> some >>>>> from of statistics on the timings associated with sending Morse Code. >>>>> But. . . I haven't seen any papers describing this. Can anyone point >>>>> me to a paper on this? >>>> For "human controlled" stuff, e.g. recognizing someone's "fist", >> there's a huge literature out there on biometric identification looking at >> things like keyboard and mouse click timing - the timing requirements are >> pretty slack, and hardly time-nuts level, unless you're looking to do it >> with mechanical devices constructed from spare twigs and strands of kelp. >>>> >>>> There have been a variety of schemes for recognizing individual radios >> by looking at the frequency vs time as they start up. Likewise, it's pretty >> easy to distinguish radar magnetrons from each other. Not a lot of papers >> about this, but you'll see it in advertising literature, or occasionally in >> conference pubs (although I can't think of any off hand). There was >> someone selling a repeater access control system that was based on the >> transmitter fingerprint. >>>> >>>> But the real reason why you don't see any publications is that this >> stuff is pretty classic signals intelligence (SIGINT or MASINT) and it is >> still being used, and is all classified. You're not relying on Betty the >> receiver operator to recognize the characteristic chirp as the agent's >>
[time-nuts] Satellites in the Sky
I thought I would share a tip for those interested in ’visualizing’ the GPS constellation overhead – ‘seeing’ the satellites you are currently tracking. While there are many GPS monitor apps available, ...some free - some not ...each app will have various means to depict which satellites are overhead. Many have just tables of data. I find the U-Blox, U-Center monitor app (free) most enlightening. Besides being very well written and documented, it of course supports its’ proprietary U-Blox modules as well as many standard, NMEA-formatted ones. Put your GPS module in NMEA mode. While in U-Center, bring up the ‘World’ graphic and it will show you which satellites are visible to your location and which ones are being tracked. Very educational to see them progress across the ‘earth’ . Good use of colors for status. You can get instant feedback from moving and relocating your antenna by watching which sats come and go and their color ‘status’. All this makes the hobby more pleasurable, realistic and not so ethereal. -Don N5CID ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] I thought GPS repeated every 12 hours (-2 minutes)
Still do, to this day! With my OTA HD TV and living in the vicinity of ABIA in Austin, TX. When the wind is out of the north, and they take off to the north darn planes! Don N5CID -Original Message- From: billriches Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 5:34 AM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I thought GPS repeated every 12 hours (-2 minutes) Reminds me of the 1950's living in Wildwood, NJ. We had a TV antenna on the roof to pick up stations from Philadelphia - 80 miles away. When ever an airplane flew over you would see flutter and distorted sound! 73, Bill, WA2DVU Cape May ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV), with 5071A cesium clocks
Congratulations, Tom, on a successful experiment. You should feel very proud. I have seen the promotions for the BBC episode and was looking forward to it, but now, ... I am really excited! I continue to learn and be educated from your Time-Nuts site (and you!). I thank you for your ownership and leadership of the Group. Job well done. Don N5CID -Original Message- From: Tom Van Baak Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2016 9:50 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV),with 5071A cesium clocks The TV show is tomorrow, Wednesday evening. 8/9 PM, or something like that. Here are fresh web pages with background information, photos, and plots: http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/ http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/photos.htm I have no idea how minor my role is in the actual TV episode, but if nothing else, the above two pages will share some time nuts sort of details of the clock experiment itself. If you have any questions let me know. /tvb - Original Message - From: "Tom Van Baak" To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 12:00 PM Subject: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV),with 5071A cesium clocks Fellow time nuts, Here in the US, a new six-part TV series on National Geographic / PBS starts next Wednesday, May 18th, 2016. The title is "Genius by Stephen Hawking" and episode 1 is: Can We Time Travel? Having not seen it yet, I can't make a promise of its "SNR" (Science to Nonsense Ratio). It might be quite educational, or at least, very entertaining. And I'm definitely going to watch it with my family. So why do I mention this? Well, I spent most of December 2015 and January 2016 working with the UK-based producers of the show -- in order to pull off another Einstein 100th anniversary, general relativity, cesium atomic clock, gravitational time dilation experiment. The location chosen was 9000+ foot Mt Lemmon, near Tucson, Arizona. The Hawking series covers a wide variety of topics, and this atomic clock bit is just one very small part. They were inspired by the DIY experiment I did ( http://leapsecond.com/great2005/tour/ ) and they wanted to create and film something similar. So I offered to help. Scenes with (me? and) my 5071A cesium clocks and hp 53132A / SR620 time interval counters are in episode 1. The PR link to the episode is: http://www.pbs.org/genius-by-stephen-hawking/episodes/episode-1/ Attached is a photo. I will post lots of technical info, plots, photos and FAQ here next week: http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/ /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SR620 testing
Guys, The SR620 X/Y feature is extremely valuable for my time lab. You probably need to rethink the feature after setting up a nice X/Y display and experimenting with the different display features. I use an Rb and distribution amp for my lab 10MHz standard which feeds the external ref input of the SR620. When the TIC is not being used for other things, it has a Thunderbolt with a double-oven OCXO (TC=1200) connected to one channel and the 10MHz ref to the other measuring zero-crossing time difference. Triggering with the TIC 1KHz output and using 1E5 samples sizes makes the horizontal axis approximately 7-hours while the vertical axis is set for 20ns/div allowing visibility of plus/minus 50ns or the whole 100ns phase cycle of the 10MHz after a 50ns reference is set. I added an extremely fine external EFC to my Rb reference and this allows me to make fine enough ref frequency changes to strive for zero-slope displays of many hours and even days. The 20ns/div typically reveals plus/minus 10 ns GPS bumps but the overall slope over many hours is what's important. You could do this through the GPIB but you are tying up a lot more resources during the extended runs. My Tektronix 606B display cost me $50 years ago. Take my word, it's worth checking out - don't write off the X/Y outputs. Pictures on request or can someone give me an upload site. Don -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 6:13 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] SR620 testing Hi You may have cleaned up a dirty pot wiper as well … The SR620 has X/Y outputs? Who knew? … that’s how often that feature gets used around here. Bob > On Feb 23, 2016, at 12:14 AM, Joseph Gray wrote: > > Ignore the problem with EXT trigger. I did a factory reset and now it > is working. I should have thought to reset it to begin with. > > Joe Gray > W5JG > > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 8:14 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: >> Finally got an SR620 at a decent price. I'm going through the >> Functional Tests and the Performance Tests now. So far, I have two >> anomalies. >> >> Pg 62 Functional Test - EXT input. When I vary the EXT trigger knob, >> I don't get the trigger LED, except that it flashes briefly at one >> spot as I move the knob from high to low. >> >> XY outputs - text at the top is slanted and text near the middle >> right is overlaid. I don't know if I care about this, as I am >> unlikely to use this feature. >> >> I can't test the printer port. No Epson printer. I probably don't >> care about this, either. >> >> Pg 63 Performance Test - Timebase frequency is 15 Hz high. I will adjust >> later. >> >> Timebase accuracy +/- 0.0035 Hz passes. >> >> This is far as I have gotten. After I get a bite of dinner, I will proceed. >> >> The EXT trigger test not working worries me. Perhaps I am doing something >> wrong? >> >> >> Joe Gray >> W5JG > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] MTI 260-0624-D OCXO
It always helps to know a little about the specific design of the temp control circuit but let's say counter clockwise CCW reduces the internal oven temp. This can be confirmed by letting the temp and frequency stabilize. Using a counter with good resolution monitoring the output frequency, turn the pot CCW several turns and the frequency should slowly decrease a few cycles (typically positive temp coefficient) as the oven cools. Now slowly turn the pot CW about 1/2 turn on each increment watching the frequency slowly increase due to the internal crystal oven slowly getting hotter. Eventually, the frequency will peak and further CW turning of the pot will start to lower the frequency. That's why it called the turn-over temperature. Now set the pot in the middle of two equal frequency points on either side of the frequency peak. Hopefully you will see a broad frequency peak allowing for a little more margin in the oven temperature. All you need to monitor is the output frequency. This process can be a little faster if you have some type of external analog oven temperature indication but it not necessary. Don -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of time...@metachaos.net Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 9:02 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] MTI 260-0624-D OCXO I have just about finished trashing this OCXO. I was able to run it outside of its case, and I have repaired the case, but I was unable to reinstall it into the case because I have to patch it on both the top and bottom. I could, perhaps, put it into a larger case and might do that later. For now, I will keep it as a potential future resource. The SC crystal is worth that much - they aren't cheap and nothing wrong with that. Also, just the bottom circuit board has problems, possibly another bad unit could be used for parts. That leaves one final question. The suggestion that the POT adjusts the temperature set point for the crystal sounds very reasonable. It clearly does not significantly affect the frequency. At least, not in the range that would allow for tuning the output frequency. However, the POT is clearly designed to be adjusted AFTER everything is assembled because it is intended to be adjusted through the hole in the case. That assumes some sort of feedback. What feedback? What can it affect on the available five pins that would let you know when the temperature is set correctly? If it is not for setting the temperature, and not for setting the frequency, what is it for? Perhaps output voltage level? I would have to get it working again, but I could test that. Any ideas? Mike ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals
You have it right, iovane. At the least, they should be protected from light, thermal radiation, and emf. Won'drous things will happen if the crystal and its structure are subjected to radiation through the glass. I'd suggest a foam wrap in a tin can as a minimum. Put the oscillator cat in there too. Don iovane--- via time-nuts > I think that these crystals were designed to be placed in an oven, which > worked > as a shield too. I have a similar crystal made by Racal in the 60's, and in my > case it is fitted with the classic octal tube-type plug. It was housed (still > is) in a heavy massive shimmering chrome-plated cylindrical brass enclosure, a > beauty to see, It was the timebase of a tube-type synthesizer with lots of > tubes. Themperature control was achieved by means of a mercury thermometer in > which mercury actuated a contact when reaching a wire crossing the capillary > tube. > > Antonio I8IOV > >>Da: Bob Camp >>Data: 02/02/2016 13.15 >>A: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" >>Ogg: Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals >> >>Hi >> >>Since the 25 MHz crystal has already been soldered into a circuit, putting it > in a >>socket is probably not a real good idea. It’s also a leaded part. Even with > fat pins >>sockets can be an issue. With wire leads, you are asking for trouble. >> >>Functionally, there is little there is little difference between a glass > package crystal >>and a metal package. About the only real one is the obvious - one has a metal > shield >>you can (but sometimes don’t) ground. >> >>Bob >> >> >>> On Feb 1, 2016, at 9:58 PM, Daniel Watson wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I purchased a pair of interesting glass envelope crystals for a project. >>> Here are some pictures: >>> >>> http://syncchannel.blogspot.com/2016/02/glass-envelope-quartz-crystals.html >>> >>> Does anyone have an idea about what mount/socket I should buy for these? I >>> read a previous thread on the list about Bliley crystals using a B7G mount, >>> but I'm not sure if that type might work here. >>> >>> Also, when building up a circuit to make these oscillate, are there any >>> specific differences about crystals in this package that I should keep in >>> mind? >>> >>> >>> Thanks much, >>> >>> Dan W. > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. Lucky is he who has been able to understand the causes of things. Virgil --- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham, AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC, 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mailing address: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP5370B & HP5345B Front-End IC Redesign Effort
I have two A's and one B, and two Beaglebone replacements. I'm interested. If we even had a block diagram, we'd be ahead! Don Richard (Rick) Karlquist > On 1/22/2016 2:14 PM, Mathew Breton wrote: >> I was gifted an HP 5370B with the usual problem: front-end problems, >> probably due to overstress. It is currently up and running again with a set >> of 5345A series A3/A4 boards as I wasn't able to get a cheap pair of >> 5088-706x hybrid ICs. >> This sounds like a common problem. As a result, I'm designing an open-source >> drop-in (hopefully) replacement. My hat is off to the original IC designer, >> as it is not a trivial effort due to the wide input signal common-mode >> range, and very tight trigger timing requirements. Other items (like the >> E-ECL) output) are also adding a bit of extra effort. >> I'm hoping that someone(s) might be interested in working with me on it. I >> would like to have my assumptions and math checked before I start the >> detailed design phase, and perhaps contribute some better ideas. >> In addition, it would be really helpful if someone could run a few rise-time >> dispersion tests on an instrument with a working "B"-series A3/A4 PCB set >> (my unit obviously doesn't qualify). >> Regards, >> Mat Breton > > I would like to mention that the "father" of the 5370, > David Chu, retired from Agilent a few years ago. He > might be receptive to giving you some advice about > your project. He is still very sharp technically. > If there is sufficient interest, I might be able > to arrange for an introduction. It would be helpful > if we had a show of hands on time nuts as to how many > people on time nuts are interested in this board. > David was one of the best engineers in the history > of the Santa Clara division and the fact that the > 5370 lives on is a testimony to how far ahead of > its time the design was, some 40 years ago. > > Rick Karlquist N6RK > HP Santa Clara Division 1979-1998 > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. Lucky is he who has been able to understand the causes of things. Virgil --- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham, AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC, 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mailing address: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP5370B & HP5345B Front-End IC Redesign Effort
Someone has already probably said, watch out for switching regulators. BTW, almost all the Hp instruments I have from the 80's era run hot as heck. I have put on fans and piggybacked more fins (and more fins, and more fins...). A Military version of the 5328A counter I have has what sounds like a leaf blower in it, with a proportional controller added. If you do some work with switchers, I'm sure the list would be very interested! Don Don Perry Sandeen via time-nuts > Hi, > Wrote: Since the front end chips are mixed signal ASIC’s, it will take more > than a bit of time to replace them directly. Re-doing the entire front panel > board is the most likely way to “fix”the problem. The question is - why do > that at all? Just do a PC instrument that does the same thing as the counter > with way less effort….. > Well, I have two reasons not to. > First I have about $1800 invested in my 3 5370’s including the new CPU boards > and blowing that off is not in my budget. I’ll kludge the living daylights out > of my units before blowing off my investment. > Second, I haven’t the slightest clue on how to do a PC instrument and I have > to many other projects to finish to learn something new. > Also there was much discussion about A and B cooling in the past and it seems > the only things some did to their units was the addition of fan(s) on the > cooling fins. I had an external fan on a B I was running and the thing still > was too hot. > IMNSHO, I believe the front end chip failure is aggravated by the high > interior heat level. I’m committed to a number of other projects so it will > be a while before I can work on mine. > I’ll either rip the whole PS out and put it on another chassis, try better 3 > terminal regulators instead of the installed pass transistors, install > switching regulator PS’s in place of the original PS, cut holes in the top lid > and install 10 or 12 computer fans. Or a combination of the afore mentioned. > I don’t give a rat’s behind how it will look. I’m only interested in it > working properly. I’ve spent 50 years in the electronics industry and I will > find a way to skin this cat. I’ve done this to other equipment before. And > when done I’ll tell the list how I did it. > Regards, > Perrier > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. Lucky is he who has been able to understand the causes of things. Virgil --- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham, AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC, 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mailing address: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions
I see I am in Really Good Company Don Rob Sherwood. > Paul, > > Your last paragraph was a hoot. A ham friend of mine recently rented a > storage shed to keep all his spare test equipment and parts units. Another > ham friend used to have four storage units to store all his "stuff". The > disease is not curable with either time or antibiotics. > > My XYL will have to deal with two homes with labs and ham shacks, 7 towers, 13 > yagis, etc. when I am SK. Need I say more. > > Rob > NC0B > > -Original Message- > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of paul swed > Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 1:56 PM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions > > > > Nathan, > Bob shared a link for the Lucent units and a great amount of detail has been > shared on Time-nuts about them. They will do what you want. The Ref0 requires > a external GPS receiver and another Time-Nuts Arduino. It works really well > and the quality of the ref0 seems to be that of the 1pps feeding it. > But they also make a no brainer pair that has a ref0 and ref1 that has a built > in GPS receiver. They were $175 but they go all over the place in price. But > it does just work. > Trace-ability is an interesting word around this group. From your description > not sure thats really a need. Accept for the oven oscillator they all are > great and yes even really good oven oscillators are great and can actually be > amazing. Not cheap at all though. > You describe your counter and sig gen they have a resolution of .1Hz so going > further isn't really all that helpful. > Now here is the real issue you face and its far more of an issue then you > expect. > First the generator and oscillator and suddenly you find yourself acquiring > more stuff. Maybe a RB, then a Cesium, distribution amplifiers, better > antennas. Sound familiar? You are dmed. Back away real fast. > Good luck > Paul > WB8TSL > > On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Bob Camp wrote: > >> Hi >> >> > On Jan 10, 2016, at 1:25 PM, Nathan Johnson wrote: >> > >> > Hello All, >> > I'm a ham radio operator, for just a few years, and electronics nut >> > for >> many >> > more. I have been reading the archives and trying to learn a bit. I >> > am >> wanting >> > to develop an accurate frequency standard for "lab" and radio use. I >> > see >> that I >> > have 3 basic options that are possible on my budget, a decent >> > OCXO-based >> device, >> > a rubidium standard, and a GPSDO. My current uses are to supply >> > accurate >> timing >> > to a signal generator(not yet purchased, HP 8640/8650-something) and >> > a >> frequency >> > counter(Fluke 1953), mostly used in aligning radios. >> > In the near future I am hoping to expand that to a homebrew HF >> > transceiver(probably clocking a DDS chip of some sort), and some >> > higher frequency(possibly up to 10GHz) transverters. >> > So what I have learned so far about each option: >> > -OCXO is probably stable enough for what I am trying to do, but by >> > itself provides no guarantee of absolute accuracy(I'm looking at the >> > microwave operators "weapon of choice", the Isotemp 134-10), has an >> > adjustment pin >> for a >> > tuning voltage, but no idea what an appropriate value is for that >> > voltage without access to a more accurate standard. I will probably >> > build an >> OCXO device >> > of some kind anyway as an interim measure while I earn for the money >> > to >> obtain >> > something better, and to validate a distribution amp within the lab etc. >> > -Rubidium Standard seems like a very nice idea, but it's still not >> traceable in >> > terms of absolute accuracy(although the adjustment range of the >> > available standards appears to be several orders of magnitude better >> > than I am >> likely to >> > need). The available standards are being re-imported from China, >> > with >> unknown >> > hours or life remaining, and in some cases unknown condition. They >> appear to be >> > power hogs. A $200 gamble. >> > -GPSDOs have many options available, and are referenced to primary >> standards. >> > Pretty sure this is where I want to go. I'm looking at Item# >> 231803015799 on the >> > usual auction site, and this seems to be everything I need? I also >> looked at >>
Re: [time-nuts] DMTD - analog multiplier vs. diode mixer ?
Mini-circuits has packaged phase detectors plug-in, surface, and with connectors for $20 TO $70. Diode bridges with transformers. They also have cheap wideband amps. Bet a simple DDMTD could be built with these? I know...I wish I did have the time at present. Happy New Year! Don Magnus Danielson > With some sine-to-square conversion as signal conditioning, not too hard > these days, this could be a relatively straight forward approach. > CERN already have digital clocks, so the DDMTD approach fits them well. > > For normal mixers you want to signal condition the signal prior to the > mixers, and then signal-condition the beat notes too. > > For DDMTD you do the same, but you do the post mister conditioning in > the digital domain. > > I have always assumed that signal-to-noise have been the main difference > between the Gilbert cell multiplies vs. diode mixers. > > Cheer1s, > Magnus > > On 01/05/2016 09:19 PM, Bruce Griffiths wrote: >> You could also consider a DDMTD as useed in CERN's White rabbit >> project.Apart from the sine to logic level conversion its all digital. With >> care in the design the jitter should be sub picosecond. >> Bruce >> >> >> On Wednesday, 6 January 2016 9:01 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp >> wrote: >> >> >> My little HP5065 project is continually running into the jitter of >> my HP5370B counter which is annoying me, so I'm looking int DMTD. >> >> Everybody seems to be using traditional diode-mixers for DMTD, >> and to be honest I fail to see the attraction. >> >> Why wouldn't a analog multiplier like AD835 be better idea ? >> >> What am I overlooking ? >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. Lucky is he who has been able to understand the causes of things. Virgil --- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham, AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC, 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mailing address: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPSDO and oscillator steering - EFC vs DDS schemes?
A friend and I have been messing with a DDS replacement for the VFO in older radios. The odds runs between 5 and 5.5 MHz. There are some mixers that generate the final LO frequency. We found many many birdies (caused by spurs for the non-hams) over the tuning ranges. We had to put in a lo-pass filter, 7stage commercial type to get rid of the birdies. But as I recall, there have been several cautions on this list about filters causing temperature dependence. I haven't read the whole of this thread, so it may have already been mentioned. Merry Christmas, Don Magnus Danielson > God kväll, > > On 12/09/2015 11:47 AM, Attila Kinali wrote: >> God eftermiddag, >> >> On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 23:45:52 +0100 >> Magnus Danielson wrote: >> >> >>> If you would setup essentially a micro-stepper design, such as those >>> being used for cesium and hydrogen masers, but maybe adapted to a >>> hobbyist needs and with straight-forward way of building and tune-up, >>> then we could alter the design pattern. The phase-noise and long term >>> stability issues is clear. >> >> It doesn't look too difficult to crank something out within a rainy >> weekend or two. But I am most likely underestimating the amount of work :-) > > Indeed. As any engineering time estimate, you need to multiply with pi. > At work, we engineers divide our estimates with pi before giving it to > the project managers, as they will multiply with pi before putting it > into their time-plan. :) > >>> Doing control loop using a phase-stepper is a little bit different, and >>> has a few minor design-challenges, but once mastered is essentially the >>> same. EFC or C-field control then becomes more an initial setup. >> >> What makes the control loop different (beside that you control phase >> and not frequency, and thus have to integrate)? > > Well, that is a little bit different right there. Depending on your > setup, you might have to consider how phase-wrapping and similar > saturations that happens over a long time. If you think about it, it's > manageable. > One useful trick is to let the phase-wrapping be that of the numeric > wrapping, and then handle that case for time-stamps, so that the > numerical extension becomes trivial. If you don't, you can get some very > interesting problems. > >>> An alternative approach divider wise is to use re-generative dividers. >>> For Rick's approach there would be a number of these at the same >>> frequency (nominally), so the same design-pattern would apply. However, >>> that would only be meaningful if you need really need to keep the noise >>> down. >> >> Yes, I thought about that as well, the problem here is that the low >> noise mixers designs use transformers, which make everything bulky >> and expensive (the usual suspects cost 2USD/piece and use about 1cm^2). >> The one design that comes to mind that doesn't need transformers is >> the tripple Gilbert-Cell design, but that might be higher in noise. >> (Heck, i should just sit down and do some noise calculations) >> Additionally, there is a need for relative steep filters for 667kHz > > Indeed. For most uses, re-generative dividers will not be needed. > > I should do more experiments on that stuff. > > Cheers, > Magnus > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. Lucky is he who has been able to understand the causes of things. Virgil --- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham, AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC, 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mailing address: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] trade timestamps
Interesting note The Economist, Oct. 31, p 75 re new rules for timestamping of stock transactions and the like. Looks to be a nightmare. Don -- Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. Lucky is he who has been able to understand the causes of things. Virgil --- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham, AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC, 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mailing address: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 136, Issue 5
3 amens to that, bre'r Bob. I too, have a pile or two. I thought, being an adaptive and fixit whiz, I could actually use the stuff. Ain't so. Don Bob Camp > Hi > > Equally to the point - don’t overpay. > > A unit that needs a whole bunch of attention is worth less than something that > fires up and “just works”. In this case entry level “just works” is priced > below $200. > > Stuff with historical significance - sure, you could easily pay more for that. > To > me it’ll be another 20 years before the mid-90’s GPS gear becomes > “historical”. > > It’s easy to get caught up in some of this stuff. I have piles and piles of > this and that > to prove the point. > > Bob > >> On Nov 5, 2015, at 3:17 PM, paul swed wrote: >> >> Yes funny how those things tend to work. >> If you have good enough life will fill in with other things pretty quickly. >> As an example I have an old austron 2201 GPS unit that really does a nice >> job of showing offsets. But with the GPS rollover and other annoyances its >> actually a pain in the butt to fire up. >> Far to spoiled by the modern things you fire up walk away and 30-120 min >> later pretty darn stable. >> Regard >> Paul >> WB8TSL >> >> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 12:35 PM, Stephen Farthing >> wrote: >> >>> Hi guys, >>> >>> Thanks for the advice and offers to help. I think I will pass on the >>> Proteus. I have already have a rubidium standard and getting the Proteus >>> to work is probably going to take up more time than I have available for a >>> while. >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> Steve G0XAR >>> >>> On Thursday, 5 November 2015, wrote: >>> >>>> Send time-nuts mailing list submissions to >>>>time-nuts@febo.com >>>> >>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visite >>>>https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>>time-nuts-requ...@febo.com >>>> >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>>time-nuts-ow...@febo.com >>>> >>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>> than "Re: Contents of time-nuts digest..." >>>> >>>> >>>> Today's Topics: >>>> >>>> 1. NAVSTAR proteus GPS time and frequency unit (Stephen Farthing) >>>> 2. Re: NAVSTAR proteus GPS time and frequency unit (Bob Camp) >>>> 3. Re: NAVSTAR proteus GPS time and frequency unit (paul swed) >>>> 4. General Radio frequency standard question... (Burt I. Weiner) >>>> 5. Re: NAVSTAR proteus GPS time and frequency unit (Rob Sherwood.) >>>> 6. Re: NAVSTAR proteus GPS time and frequency unit >>>> (gandal...@aol.com ) >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 19:25:39 + >>>> From: Stephen Farthing > >>>> To: time-nuts@febo.com >>>> Subject: [time-nuts] NAVSTAR proteus GPS time and frequency unit >>>> Message-ID: >>>>>>> a...@mail.gmail.com > >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I have the chance to buy a new boxed unit. Having glanced at the manual I >>>> understand that the configuration software runs under Windows 95 and >>> uses a >>>> serial RS232 port. The only Windows box I have now runs Windows 10 and >>> has >>>> USB only. So my questions are, can I run the config software under >>> Windows >>>> 10 and will a USB to serial adaptor work with it? I will need to make a >>>> power supply for it as I think it requires 24 volts. That should be no >>>> problem. >>>> >>>> Any comments great fully received. >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance, >>>> >>>> Steve G0XAR >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Message: 2 >>>> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 17:47:36 -0500 >>>> From: Bob Camp > >>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >>>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] NAVSTAR proteus GPS time and frequency
Re: [time-nuts] GPS disciplined FE5680A
Is this on github or source forge? Somehow I missed it but am interested. Don Bert Kehren via time-nuts > The GPSDO is alive and well. We have run and are running in excess of 15 > units in Beta test on FE 5680, 5650 and 405 with very good results. There are > several reasons for the release delay also doe to the fact that I have > moved along with s a significant down sizing. > I will not be in the kit business and have decided that the module will be > offered to time nuts assembled and tested. A time nut is in the final > phase with the first 5 units ready for beta test. Some time nuts may want to > copy me off list. Price will be $ 65 I will not be involved except selecting > the candidates. The candidates should be willing to disable the temperature > compensation extensively covered and have at least heat sink preferably > temperature control. > Goal is to start shipping in volume before the end of the year. I have no > financial interest in it. > > Skip offers a modified FE 5650 with the same data format that the popular > 5680. You may contact him direct. > Again a caution there are many data formats and only the most poular format > that has been extensively covered on the list is supported. > > > > In a message dated 11/3/2015 12:00:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > time-nuts@febo.com writes: > > Following Nick's comment, under the subject "Z3801A and FE-5680A Allen > Variances", that he briefly considered designing a board to GPS > discipline > the FE5680A, I'm pretty sure that a year or so ago just such a board was > suggested as being close enough to completion to warrant a request for > beta > testers, with perhaps even a suggestion that it could be made available > as a > group purchase. > > Since then though, as far as I'm aware anyway, it just seems to have > disappeared without trace, or did I miss something? > > Regards > > Nigel > GM8PZR > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. Lucky is he who has been able to understand the causes of things. Virgil --- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham, AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC, 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mailing address: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] How did they distribute time in the old days?
Hi, Brooke, My self winding clock synchronizes fine on three volts. I built a synchronizer using a PIC controller with a 32KHz quartz crystal, running on three volts. You might want to carefully check the coil and connections on yours. By the way, the winding coils also are running on three volts. Don Couch On 10/14/2015 11:02 AM, Brooke Clarke wrote: Hi Nick: One of my Self Winding Clock Co. (WU) clocks was taken down yesterday for painting. When put up one of the Ken's Clock Synchronizers was installed and the hands moved to align with the heart shaped cam it uses, but it never worked. The problem was it used a 4.5 Volt signal which can develop the current needed to pull the sync electromagnet the time constant is far too slow. I'm going to add a high voltage circuit with series resistor to get the time constant down one or two orders of magnitude. The key to this is a PCB I make that holds 5 each 9V batteries connected in series, so I'll use one, two or more of them to get the time constant down. http://www.prc68.com/P/45VS.html Before I had the 45 Volt Stick I was considering getting the needed high voltage by charging a cap a minute or two before the top of the hour and discharging it through a resistor. Here's a video showing that would work. http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC.shtml#Experiments_Feb_2014_ Mail_Attachment -- Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html http://www.prc68.com/I/DietNutrition.html Nick Sayer via time-nuts wrote: On Oct 14, 2015, at 4:42 AM, billriches wrote: Not milisecond time distribution but time related! In the early half of the 1900s Western Union was in the time business. They would rent businesses such as banks, office buildings, etc clocks for a few dollars a month. These were pendulum wall clocks that had 2 #6 dry cell batteries inside that would wind them every hour or so. The clocks were connected to the WU telegraph line and for a minute before and after the top of the hour all traffic on the circuit would stop. Exactly at the top of the hour they would push a pulse of 50 ? volts or so over the line and it would reset the clock to the top of the hour. The WU standard time service goes back further than the turn of the 20th century. It started in 1870. I’ve always wanted to get my hands on one of those clocks and come up with a circuit to recreate the synchronization signal for it, probably with a Raspberry Pi running ntpd and a big ol’ MOSFET. The problem is that at this point, those clocks are quite expensive once they’re reconditioned. My understanding (perhaps incorrect) was that the sync pulse was once daily and, as you said, would cause the hands to “snap” to 12. The trailing edge of the pulse was synchronized and would release the clock to operate normally. That they had something as accurate and widespread as it was so early is astonishing. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] another gpsdo
http://www.force12inc.com/products/gps-locked-precision-frequency-reference-low-jitter-gps-clock-450-hz-to-800-mhz-output.html Don -- Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. Lucky is he who has been able to understand the causes of things. Virgil --- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham, AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC, 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mailing address: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680B Rubidium and DDS
definitely interested. I'd especially like to know about using the 30 MHz with the Chinese dds block. Don Clint Jay > I've made some investigations and re-confirmed my earlier findings on the > FE-5680B I have. > > It locks from cold in under five minutes and runs at approximately 700mA > steady with the expected PPS signal on the output connector when locked. > > The particular 5680 I have has a Hi Density 15p male connector on the > output and uses a single 15V supply, part number FE5680B UN 77672. > > The device does not have the optional DDS daughterboard which means that > it's not usable as a programmable signal source as it stands (but see > later). > > For approximately six seconds after power is applied a 10MHz signal > available on the output connector, this signal comes directly from the > XC9572 CPLD via a filter network and appears to be a clean sine wave. > > The 10MHz signal seems to be 'switched off' by some event in the unit, I > don't yet know if this is in response to an event or just a timed shutdown > but power cycling the unit re-enables the 10MHz output for a further six > seconds. It doesn't appear to be related to rubidium lock as it takes > consdierably longer than six seconds to lock. > > There is a solid 30MHz signal inside the unit, stable once the rubidium has > locked and the PPS output is also available once locked. > > Other observations show that the MAX3232 serial driver chip is missing and > in it's place there is a tiny 8 pin device marked M09 or MO9 which is > connected to the TXD/RXD pins on the output connector and the TXD/RXD pins > on the 80C323 CPU. > > I'd be very interested in suggestions as to the part number of that device, > it may yield clues as to the communication method needed. > > Attempts to communicate with it via a terminal program have given no > responses at several 'standard' baud rates. Voltage levels are LVTTL. > > I'm wary of applying 5V to any of the pins on the interface connector > directly and probing them with 3.3v via a 10K resistor has made no > difference to any of the signals I can monitor (30MHz, PPS etc.) with the > exception of pin 13 which I *think* is reset, obviously this causes the > frequencies to skew for a few seconds until reset is completed. > > My intent is to use the 30MHz signal from the CPLD to clock a DDS chip > (probably one of the eBay DDS modules) that's controlled by a PIC chip (I > already have code to run a DDS VFO I developed earlier this and late last > year. Hopefully this will be small enough to fit inside the casing though I > don't see a problem with bringing the 30MHz signal out if necessary. > > My apologies if this is outside of the scope of this list, I will also be > writing up my findings and experiments with this standard on my blog if > anyone is interested? > > > > On 26 September 2015 at 11:23, Bryan _ wrote: > >> Thanks Hal, that's interesting, will try and see how far I can get. >> -=Bryan=- >> >> > To: time-nuts@febo.com >> > From: hmur...@megapathdsl.net >> > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2015 23:40:40 -0700 >> > CC: hmur...@megapathdsl.net >> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680B Rubidium and DDS >> > >> > >> > > I as well wish there was a quick way of converting it back to 10Mhz. I >> am >> > > sure it can be done, just not sure how or where to look >> > >> > If the 10 MHz is visible for a second or two, there is probably a gate to >> > turn it on/off. If I wanted 10 MHz, I'd open it up and trace the wire >> back. >> > If it goes to a gate, you might be able to lift the pin for the other >> input >> > and wire it hi/low. There is a good chance it goes to a FPGA where you >> can't >> > get at the gate. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > These are my opinions. I hate spam. >> > >> > >> > >> > ___ >> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> > To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> > and follow the instructions there. >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > > > -- > Clint. > > *No trees were harmed in the sending of this mail. However, a large number > of electrons were greatly inconv
Re: [time-nuts] Easy-to-use TDC to compare PPS
I don't recall ever hearing from Deutschland about this chip. Gave up, if I remember aright. Still engaged in the mad race to update, 5 yr later. Got a 620, and the BBblsck boards for the 5370's Don Tom Van Baak > There's some useful information in the following long threads: > > acam TDC chips (was: PicTic Data) > https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2010-August/049463.html > > Some info on the ACAM TDC and a question to Brooks Shera's PI controller > https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2010-October/051134.html > > Acam TDC's > https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2014-April/084070.html > > Experience with THS788 from TI? > https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2012-March/065293.html > > /tvb > > > - Original Message - > From: "Xavier Bestel" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 7:30 AM > Subject: [time-nuts] Easy-to-use TDC to compare PPS > > >> Hi, >> >> I'd like to do some PPS comparisons on an SBC (like a Beaglebone or RPi) >> using a TDC. So far the ones I've seen which could be suitable are >> ACAM's TDC-GPX and TI's THS788: >> http://www.acam.de/fileadmin/Download/pdf/English/DB_GPX_e.pdf >> http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ths788.pdf >> >> However these chips don't look so simple to connect to a standard SBC. >> Would anyone of you already have attempted that journey, or simply have >> a reasonably good idea about how to do that ? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Xav >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. Lucky is he who has been able to understand the causes of things. Virgil --- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham, AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC, 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mailing address: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TS-2100 GPS : RD-5, Remote Time Code Display
Thanks, Greg. I note it will free wheel and display with with an internal crystal wow. Such as? Banking on an available blank spot for a BNC and a switch on the back panel! Don Gregory Beat > I see that only one of the Symmetricom TrueTime RD-5 (model 820-500) Time Code > Remote Display Clocks (7 segment LED, 0.56" high) remains unsold. > Hopefully some time-nuts acquired these nice remote time code displays. > ** finally adjusted mine for local time (and DST) earlier this week ** > > In case you miss out on these FAA surplus items, the same eBay reseller has > the > Datum TimeView 9520-240 Airborne Time Code Display (10 listed available). > Manual for that model is noted on eBay auction. > Main difference from other model, appears to be controls on front (readily > accessible) and > possibly less flexible in the daylight savings time adjustment (I didn't look > closely). > > The eBay reseller is: gadgets-plus > who is located in Lombard, IL. > > Greg > w9gb > > > Sent from iPad Air > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. Lucky is he who has been able to understand the causes of things. Virgil --- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham, AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC, 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mailing address: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] "Vanguard Ultra precision Golden Oscillator"
Gee whatever happened to slipping it out of the ol' FT holder and rubbing with a little toothpaste? Don Bob Camp > Hi >> On Aug 23, 2015, at 10:29 PM, Hal Murray wrote: >> >> >> kb...@n1k.org said: >>> There is not a lot to an un-compensated crystal oscillator. Tuning it on >>> frequency is fairly simple. Even for odd frequencies Mouser will happily >>> sell you a crystal for next to nothing. Toss in a handful of parts and you >>> have a very respectable oscillator. For a basement project … much better >>> than spending $40 on something suspect from who knows who. >> >> What's magic about a crystal as compared to an osc? Is it really easier to >> get an odd-ball frequency in a crystal vs an osc? > > > When I do a Mouser search for frequencies in the range I mentioned, the number > of frequencies is pretty small. If I switch over to looking at crystals at > Mouser, the > frequency choices are a lot greater. Yes, as with the oscillators you need to > sort out > the ones that aren’t going to cut it. > > To your point - no, you can’t get anything / any frequency through > distribution. That’s > true both of oscillators and of crystals. You just more picks with the > crystals. > > Bob > >> >> The last time I bought a special frequency osc was over 10 years ago. Once >> I >> found the right company, things were simple. I don't remember the price. >> At >> the time, it seemed reasonable, but that was for a commercial project rather >> than a basement lab. >> >> Do those companies still exist or have they all fallen through the cracks of >> higher volumes and lower prices. >> >> >> -- >> These are my opinions. I hate spam. >> >> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it." Ghost in the Shell --- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham, AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC, 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mailing address: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone
Re the Ref-0 Ref-1 difference. Might be easier to find in the difference between PForth dumps? R0 and R1 may simply be differences in words? Don Bob Camp > Hi > > Yes, Paul posted a link yesterday that includes a link of the words dump from > pForth. > > Bob > > >> On Aug 9, 2015, at 9:51 PM, Don Latham wrote: >> >> Excellent. The words can be dumped to give a better idea about what's going >> on? >> >> Bob Camp >>> Hi > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it." Ghost in the Shell --- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham, AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC, 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mailing address: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone
Excellent. The words can be dumped to give a better idea about what's going on? Bob Camp > Hi > > Actually it’s PForth, but yes it’s Forth. The same “dump the code” approach > used by a crazy pair of people back a while on the Z3801 applies equally well > to these devices. > > Bob > >> On Aug 9, 2015, at 4:02 PM, Don Latham wrote: >> >> Does anyone know if the underlying tongue of these devices is FORTH? >> Don >> >> Bob Camp >>> Hi >>> >>> And my thanks to all the others who worked on this project as well !!! >>> >>> Bob >>> >>>> On Aug 9, 2015, at 11:26 AM, D W wrote: >>>> >>>> A quick update for everyone. I have successfully gotten a REF-0 to run >>>> standalone. I am using an AVR, an inexpensive GPS module and very minimal >>>> circuitry. The 'NO GPS' light is off, and SatStat shows it is locked and >>>> disciplining to the 1PPS. >>>> >>>> The stability of this needs to be assessed for a day or two. But things >>>> are >>>> looking very good. >>>> >>>> I plan to write up a complete procedure with code and pictures. I will >>>> post >>>> that here when I am done. >>>> >>>> Thanks for all of your help Bob, and to the others that worked on the >>>> project. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Dan >>>> >>>>> On Aug 8, 2015, at 7:40 PM, Bob Camp wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi >>>>> >>>>> While the newer Oncore’s are technically backwards compatible >>>>> with the old units, in practice (as you have noted) that’s not a 100% >>>>> sort of thing. If you work with a new(er) Oncore, you would pick >>>>> different >>>>> strings to use for this sort of thing. In order to have a “drop in” with >>>>> an >>>>> Oncore, you do indeed need a part made before (roughly) 2001. >>>>> >>>>> That kicks you back to 20 year old technology (the early Oncore silicon >>>>> came out in the mid 90’s) . A *lot* has happened in Moore’s Law terms >>>>> since >>>>> then. >>>>> A lot has also happened in “aggregate volume” (what ever you want to call >>>>> volume doubling) terms. Both of those things directly impact GPS >>>>> receivers. >>>>> Top that off with SA going away after the early Oncore came out and you >>>>> have a LOT of changes. >>>>> >>>>> Is that all bad? Of course not. It’s what makes me focus more on the >>>>> REF-0, >>>>> with >>>>> a modern GPS than on the REF-1 with an old Oncore. You have the high >>>>> stability / >>>>> long loop stuff from the SA era. You have a high speed, high sensitivity >>>>> GPS to >>>>> go with it. In many ways, that’s the best of both worlds. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hopefully somebody will pop up and take the gear off of your hands !! >>>>> >>>>> Bob >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 8, 2015, at 1:59 PM, Bill Hawkins wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Bob Camp has done a fine job of explaining the recent Lucent hardware. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have two of the old pairs with Rb oscillators and poor early Oncore >>>>>> receivers. >>>>>> Then I got a new pair with crystals and better GPS. I got the idea to >>>>>> use a new >>>>>> crystal unit to pair with an old RB unit, so I did some research on the >>>>>> messages >>>>>> required to do that. >>>>>> >>>>>> The data was acquired with a Pico Scope set to display the bytes as >>>>>> ASCII >>>>>> characters. The displays can be saved as text files, which can be edited >>>>>> with >>>>>> explanations of the data. I have no skills with microcomputers, and >>>>>> after many >>>>>> years working with computers have no desire to acquire them. >>>>>> >>>>>> The messages decoded easily enough with the 1996 Oncore manual. The >>>>>> problem >>>>>> with mixing old and new units is that the old Oncore had six channels >>>>>> while &g
Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone
Does anyone know if the underlying tongue of these devices is FORTH? Don Bob Camp > Hi > > And my thanks to all the others who worked on this project as well !!! > > Bob > >> On Aug 9, 2015, at 11:26 AM, D W wrote: >> >> A quick update for everyone. I have successfully gotten a REF-0 to run >> standalone. I am using an AVR, an inexpensive GPS module and very minimal >> circuitry. The 'NO GPS' light is off, and SatStat shows it is locked and >> disciplining to the 1PPS. >> >> The stability of this needs to be assessed for a day or two. But things are >> looking very good. >> >> I plan to write up a complete procedure with code and pictures. I will post >> that here when I am done. >> >> Thanks for all of your help Bob, and to the others that worked on the >> project. >> >> Regards >> >> Dan >> >>> On Aug 8, 2015, at 7:40 PM, Bob Camp wrote: >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> While the newer Oncore’s are technically backwards compatible >>> with the old units, in practice (as you have noted) that’s not a 100% >>> sort of thing. If you work with a new(er) Oncore, you would pick different >>> strings to use for this sort of thing. In order to have a “drop in” with an >>> Oncore, you do indeed need a part made before (roughly) 2001. >>> >>> That kicks you back to 20 year old technology (the early Oncore silicon >>> came out in the mid 90’s) . A *lot* has happened in Moore’s Law terms since >>> then. >>> A lot has also happened in “aggregate volume” (what ever you want to call >>> volume doubling) terms. Both of those things directly impact GPS receivers. >>> Top that off with SA going away after the early Oncore came out and you >>> have a LOT of changes. >>> >>> Is that all bad? Of course not. It’s what makes me focus more on the REF-0, >>> with >>> a modern GPS than on the REF-1 with an old Oncore. You have the high >>> stability / >>> long loop stuff from the SA era. You have a high speed, high sensitivity >>> GPS to >>> go with it. In many ways, that’s the best of both worlds. >>> >>> >>> >>> Hopefully somebody will pop up and take the gear off of your hands !! >>> >>> Bob >>> >>>> On Aug 8, 2015, at 1:59 PM, Bill Hawkins wrote: >>>> >>>> Bob Camp has done a fine job of explaining the recent Lucent hardware. >>>> >>>> I have two of the old pairs with Rb oscillators and poor early Oncore >>>> receivers. >>>> Then I got a new pair with crystals and better GPS. I got the idea to >>>> use a new >>>> crystal unit to pair with an old RB unit, so I did some research on the >>>> messages >>>> required to do that. >>>> >>>> The data was acquired with a Pico Scope set to display the bytes as >>>> ASCII >>>> characters. The displays can be saved as text files, which can be edited >>>> with >>>> explanations of the data. I have no skills with microcomputers, and >>>> after many >>>> years working with computers have no desire to acquire them. >>>> >>>> The messages decoded easily enough with the 1996 Oncore manual. The >>>> problem >>>> with mixing old and new units is that the old Oncore had six channels >>>> while >>>> the new one has eight. The messages don't match. The only difference is >>>> two >>>> more groups of satellite data. >>>> >>>> I have text files (MS Word 2003) with the contents of the messages. >>>> Considering >>>> the low level of interest in this subject, please write to b...@iaxs.net >>>> for >>>> further details. If you'd like to experiment with the hardware, please >>>> make a >>>> reasonable offer for any of it. The new units have been assembled with a >>>> 28 volt >>>> 3 amp supply into a mini-rack using aluminum angle. My time lab is being >>>> downsized due to a move to senior living apartments. There's other >>>> stuff. >>>> >>>> Bill Hawkins >>>> Bloomington, MN 55438 >>>> >>>> >>>> -Original Message- >>>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob >>>> Camp >>>> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 6:33 AM >>>> To: Discussion of precise t
Re: [time-nuts] You need one of these to improve your time-nuttery.
Maybe they have a small space in two adjacent rooms for a pendulum in each one? Don Mark Sims > I wonder how much such an environment would improve time-nut equipment > performance and measurements? They claim a 2-3x resolution increase in a STM. > > http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/07/inside-the-quietest-room-in-the-world/ > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it." Ghost in the Shell ------- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham, AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC, 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mailing address: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] manual upload
Uploaded to KO4BB: Kode Odetics 3100 time interval analyzer op manual 100 ps min timebase, 10 ps error a boatanchor but IEEE488 output. access instructions in the manual. Will take intervals less than 1 us apart. about $250 on ebay. Originally for hard disk drive measurements. Set up to use x10 probes; has a risetime calibrator. accepts 5 MHz external standard. During my search, found that Odetics had a patent on the interpoltion timing scheme. manual also at https://www.febo.com/pages/hardware/kode/kode_tia3100.pdf Don -- "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it." Ghost in the Shell --- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham, AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC, 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mailing address: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Omega counters and Parabolic Variance (PVAR)
I look forward to the article, Magnus! Don Magnus Danielson > Fellow time-nuts, > > Since I haven't seen any reports on this, I though I would write down a > few lines. > > While normal counters use a pair of phase-samples to estimate the > frequency, now called Pi counters (big pi, which has the shape of the > weighing function of frequency samples), counter vendors have been > figuring out how to improve the precision of the frequency estimation > for the given observation time. One approach is to overlay multiple > measurements in blocks, which for the frequency estimation looks like a > triangle-shape weighing, so this type of counter is referred to as Delta > counters (again to resemble the shape). > > Classical counters of the Pi shape is HP5370A, SR620 etc. > Classical counter of the Delta shape is the HP53132A. > > However, counters using the Linear Regression methodology does not fit > into either of those categories. Enrico Rubiola derived the parabolic > shape of the weighing function (which I then independently verified > after we spoke during EFTF 2014), and he then passed on the results to > Francois Vernotte and other colleagues to continue the analysis. > > The new weighing function is a parabolic, looking like an Omega sign, so > that is the name for this type of counter. > > Counters using the Omega shape is HP5371A, HP5372A, Pendelum CNT-90, > CNT-91 etc. > > These weighing shapes acts like filters, and the block variant of the Pi > weighing has no real filtering properties, where as both the Delta and > Omega shapes has strong low-pass properties, which is beneficial in that > they will suppress white phase noise strongly, and that is the typical > measurement limitation of counters. The counter resolution limit also > acts like white phase noise even if it is a systematic noise, which can > interact in interesting ways as we have seen when signal frequencies has > interesting relationships to the reference frequency. However, for cases > when this is not true, the weighing helps to reduce that noise too from > the measurements. > > For frequency estimation this is good improvements. This technique was > actually introduced in optical measurements, as illustrated by J.J. > Snyder in his 1980 and 1981 articles. This inspired further development > of the Allan Variance to include the filtering technique of Snyder, and > that resulted in the Modified Allan Variance (MVAR). Today we refer to > the Snyder technique as the Delta counter. > > What Rubiola, Vernotte et. al discovered was that using a Linear > Regression (LR) type of frequency estimated for variance estimation > forms a new measure which they ended up calling Parabolic Variance > (PVAR). They have done a complete analysis of PVAR properties (noise > response and EDF) and it has benefits over MVAR. > > Variance made by a Delta counter thus becomes MVAR, but only as a > special case. > Variance made by a Omega counter becomes PVAR, but only as a special case. > > This is my main critique of their work, if you have access to the full > stream of phase samples, you can form MVAR and PVAR using the two > shaping techniques. However, if you use counters that perform these > frequency estimations, then you can only correctly estimate variance of > the two methods for the tau0 of the measurement result rate (and > assuming that you know if they are back to back or interlaced, which is > a mistake that was done at one time). If you have an Omega counter that > produce frequency estimates and then process it further, the parabolic > filtering shape does not change with m as it should for propper PVAR. > This is exactly the same as using a Delta counter for frequency > estimates and then perform variance estimation. For both cases, the > counter will provide a fixed filtering bandwidth, but as you increase > the m*tau0 for your analysis, the frequencies of your sample series will > move into the pass-band of the low-pass filter and eventually the > filtering effect is completely lost. The result is the hockey-puck > response where the low-tau part of the ADEV/MDEV/PDEV curve first > increases and then bends down to the white phase noise of the input as > if it was not filtered. > > While Vernotte et al does not provide guidance for how to extend the > PVAR from shorter measurements, I have proposed such a solution to them. > Unfortunatly none of the existing counters will support that today. > > Why then, should one use PVAR? Well, PVAR does give good suppression of > white flicker noise, and just as MVAR does has a 1/tau^3 curve rather > than 1/tau^2 curve. This means that the measurement noise can be > suppressed more effectively and the source noise can be reached for a &g
Re: [time-nuts] CS frequency standard
THANKS, EVERYONE. OFF IT GOES. DON paul swed > As Mark says the tubes have a very finite life. So like him I turn mine on > as needed and every 6 months. My tube is on absolute fumes and is very very > marginal. But it still locks on its own in something like 16 hours with > almost impossible to see beam current. > So if you follow the every 6 months then indeed that CS will last a long > time. > Plus no power consumption and heat generation. How green is that? > Now some might say whats the value of the CS if its not your main reference? > It helps resolve ambiguity between to GPSDOs as an example. Which ones > moving around more. Its great for checking your RB offsets etc. > Few people need the CS on all the time. The other funny thing on the HP > series you can turn the tube off and just use the OCXO after its been > adjusted accurately. > I run my HP 5065a Rb the same way. Power as needed and every 6 months. > So you are very lucky to have a good CS. > Regards > Paul. > WB8TSL > > On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 6:07 PM, Don Latham wrote: > >> I lucked out on a very squeaky clean FTS 4060 CS standard. Started up right >> away and appears to have a strong tube. >> My question for those in the know: >> I don't appeal to the standard very often. >> Should I leave it on all the time, on a UPS, or start it up when I need it? >> I'm 76. If I leave it on, will it last as long as I need it :-)? >> Thanks and howdy, >> Don >> >> >> >> -- >> "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" >> >> Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL >> Six Mile Systems LLC >> 17850 Six Mile Road >> Huson, MT, 59846 >> >> mail: POBox 404 >> Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 >> >> VOX 406-626-4304 >> CEL 406-241-5093 >> Skype: buffler2 >> www.lightningforensics.com >> www.sixmilesystems.com >> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mail: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] CS frequency standard
I lucked out on a very squeaky clean FTS 4060 CS standard. Started up right away and appears to have a strong tube. My question for those in the know: I don't appeal to the standard very often. Should I leave it on all the time, on a UPS, or start it up when I need it? I'm 76. If I leave it on, will it last as long as I need it :-)? Thanks and howdy, Don -- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mail: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] potential source for cheap copy of labview
If you'll put an arduino in as a controller, Makerrplot is a really nice interface, and really cost effective and easy to use. Can also be used on 'net devices and rs232. Robot Basic will do rs232 and 'net and is free. Don paul swed > Have the eval license up and operating with the NI simple LED test. It > works. > I can easily see how you could use this to create a nice GUI for some sort > of control project. > Regards > Paul > WB8TSL > > On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 6:09 PM, Jim Lux wrote: > >> On 6/21/15 11:28 AM, Don Latham wrote: >> >>> Just for fun, went to the site. $149 for basic, but by the time I added >>> all >>> the toolboxes I thought (!) I needed, I was over $750. sigh. >>> Don >>> >>> >> Hence the popularity of the student license (or Octave) >> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mail: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] magnetic electronic components
Also have a look at the amateur radio literature available from the ARRL. Lots of practical info. Don John Allen > Hi all - this website has some older books from the 50's and 60's that may > help. > Links are at > http://tubebooks.org/technical_books_online.htm > Most of the way to the bottom of the page. > > I hope this is helpful.. > > Passive components (transformers, capacitors...) > > Capacitors, Magnetic Circuits, and Transformers, Leander Matsch, 1964, 350 > pages > A detailed text on capacitors, inductors, and transformers. Great info for > those wanting a deep understanding of these passive components. Good theory > and practical applications, especially on transformers and inductors. > Download full text with index, 3.2MB PDF file > > Electronic Transformers and Circuits, Reuben Lee, 1955, 349 pages - Courtesy > of John Atwood > This book is a "reference on the design of transformers and electronic > apparatus". It covers the design of power transformers, chokes, and signal > (audio) transformers. It also talks a bit about circuitry, as it relates to > transformers. Enough theory to understand what's going on, as well as > practical info on how to construct transformers. > Download full text, 24MB PDF file > > Handbook of Piezoelectric Crystals, John P. Buchanan, 1956, 701 pages - > Courtesy of an anonymous donor > Wow - of military origin, a 700 page book about crystals! A rare source of > information on peizo crystals, as they relate mostly to communications. > Download full text, 48MB PDF file > > Hipersil® Core Design Engineer's Handbook, Westinghouse , 1965, 108 pages > This is a design guide and materials databook for Westinghouse Hipersil > transformer cores. A good design guide for transformers and cokes, and has > detailed material data (curves and data tables) for Hipersil steel. > Download full text, 1.9MB PDF file > > John, K1AE > > -Original Message- > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob kb8tq > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 7:56 PM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] magnetic electronic components > > Hi > > The problem with coils (inductors) is that they are indeed on the “other side” > of the physics / electrical engineering divide. They are not unique in this > way. > Most components are dealt with to a “equivalent model” level and then > abandoned > in engineering. > > You have two choices: > > 1) Read the physics stuff > 2) Go back far enough that the divide had not occurred ( <= 1950’s). > > Sorry about that …. > > Bob > > >> On Jun 22, 2015, at 2:02 PM, Attila Kinali wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I was looking up some stuff and realized (again) that I don't know >> anything about how magnetic electronic components (inductors/solenoids, >> transfomers, baluns, ferrite beads...) work. Yes, I can calculate >> the inductance, I know how to get from the AL value to number of >> windings. But I don't know anything about the practical issues >> or where they come from. Unfortunatelly, this knowledge seems to >> generally rare among EEs (at least everyone I asked in the last >> couple of years) and books about it are either long out of print >> (with no pdf available) or more geared towards the physics student. >> >> So, does anyone have any recomendation where I could read up >> on this? Books, pdfs, webpages,... anything. >> >> Also something that covers more the application side, ie how to >> use ferrite beads/toroids to build devices, would be appreciated. >> >> Thanks in advance >> >> Attila Kinali >> >> -- >> I must not become metastable. >> Metastability is the mind-killer. >> Metastability is the little-death that brings total obliteration. >> I will face my metastability. >> I will permit it to pass over me and through me. >> And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. >> Where the metastability has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
Re: [time-nuts] potential source for cheap copy of labview
Just for fun, went to the site. $149 for basic, but by the time I added all the toolboxes I thought (!) I needed, I was over $750. sigh. Don David J Taylor > From: Jim Lux > [] > Mathworks still does a variety of low cost licenses, including a $149 > for Matlab "home" license + $45 for add on products. (not for academic, > commercial, govt, or organizational use) > > They also have a $49/$99 student license "in conjunction with coursework > at a degree granting institution". I suppose that you could sign up for > a class at the local community college.(that's gone up a lot with a > bunch of added fees around here) > > The new matlab has drivers/simulink blocks to handle a lot of hobby type > hardware platforms (RPi, Arduino, LEGO Mindstorms NXT) > [] > > Matlb is free and included with the Raspbian OS for the Raspberry Pi. > > > http://uk.mathworks.com/help/supportpkg/raspberrypiio/examples/getting-started-with-matlab-support-package-for-raspberry-pi-hardware.html > > > http://uk.mathworks.com/help/supportpkg/raspberrypi/examples/getting-started-with-raspberry-pi-hardware.html > > Cheers, > David > -- > SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements > Web: http://www.satsignal.eu > Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mail: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TBolt interference
Gee. my phone has a place in settings to turn the gps off to save power. Am I being fooled? Don Charles Steinmetz > John wrote: > >>I was interested in building a micro power GPS >>jammer to attach to my own phone to keep it from >>sending GPS coordinates. > > Easy peasy. Open the phone, locate the GPS antenna, and wrap it in a > small piece of aluminum foil. I've done several this way. > > Best regards, > > Charles > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mail: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Signal/Phase noise analyzer
You might like the SignalHound: http://signalhound.com/ Don Vasco Soares > Hi All, > > > > I'm searching for the less expensive signal analyzer to perform phase noise > measurements on OCXO's. There is no need to go above 400 MHz - 1 GHz. I'm > particularly interested on low frequency offset and good close in phase noise > specs. Any recommendations? > > > > Best regards, > > Vasco Soares > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mail: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New +/- 1 sec in 100 days mech clock
I saw Harrison's number one (its replica?) at Greenwich some time ago. It is a dual pendulum, 180 out of phase. I remember a lot of springs. Don Peter Torry > You could always use the traditional method of piercing saw and files. > Thinking about it I suppose files were the original milling machine. Be > aware that the horological approach is different from the engineering > approach and there are numerous traps waiting for the unwary. Harrison > and Martin's clock B have remarkable performance but could still be > improved by using multiple pendulums to overcome the noise effects for > example a two pendulum clock is performing within 1 second in six months > (so far) so I will have to get the hacksaw out for the three pendulum > version - or is it back to the GPSDO. > > Peter > > > > On 20/04/2015 20:51, Attila Kinali wrote: >> On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 09:59:06 +0200 >> Attila Kinali wrote: >> >>>> Mechanical, yes. Home brew, no. It is an absolutely stunning clock, >>>> both in beauty and performance. >>> Given the fact that a CNC milling machine can be bought quite cheaply >>> today, i would say that homebrew is easily possible. All you need >>> is a good understanding on different materials and how to machine them. >>> (This can be aquired using various machining books out there) >> Just to make sure there is no misunderstanding. What I ment here >> was, that once you have the plans, machining the parts and building >> the watch is easy. Comming up with a good plan is still hard. >> >> Attila Kinali >> > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mail: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Arduino GPIB
Marvelous. Is there any reason not to adapt this to an Arduino with a network shield? Don Joseph Gray > I thought everyone here would find this of interest. I stumbled across it a > few days ago on the 'net. It is a Prologix GPIB-USB compatible made with an > Arduino Uno. > > http://egirland.blogspot.com/2014/03/arduino-uno-as-usb-to-gpib-controller.html > > Like on his web site, I just took a cheap GPIB cable, cut off about 12 > inches and shoved the wires into the socket holes on an Uno. I uploaded his > program and did some minor testing so far. BTW, it didn't work the first > time due to poor contact. I shoved some pin headers in, after the wires and > now it works fine. > > John's Prologix config program works just fine with this cobbled together > GPIB adapter. I attached it to my HP 3457A and then ran the demo program > that comes with Ulrich's EZGPIB. It is logging data as I type this. I will > do more testing with other instruments, as I have time. > > As mentioned on the web page linked above, a few commands are not yet > implemented, although they appear to be little used commands (except > perhaps the ++savecfg command). I think I have a way to implement the ++rst > command using the watchdog timer. For ++savecfg, it shouldn't be too > difficult to store things in the Arduino EEPROM. > > I have some cheap Arduino Nano's and PCB-mount GPIB connectors on order. I > will be making a couple of these Proligix-compatible adapters with those > parts, so that they aren't just wires shoved into a board. I'll have to > find a small box to house things. I have also ordered some buffer chips to > add to the design. Total cost should be under $20 for each adapter. > > The firmware uses a serial baud rate of 115200, which I assume is the same > as a real Prologix. I'm going to try some higher baud rates to see how fast > the Arduino can push bits without losing them. I understand that with the > default 16 MHz clock, non-standard baud rates that are evenly divisible > into the clock rate should work even better I'll report back. > > One question about the baud rate - are there any reasons not to change from > 115200? Since we are simply moving bits through a USB/Serial adapter, does > any software really care what the baud rate is, as long as we don't drop > any bits? > > Joe Gray > W5JG > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mail: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Errors on HP 58503A GPS time & frequency reference receiver bought from yixunhk.
Welcome to the wonderful world of Chinese capitalism. Don > On Dec 11, 2014, at 6:16 PM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) > wrote: > > Hi Stuart, > Several people have contacted me about the fakes. I can't understand why > his feedback is so good. The seller bought some calibration standards from > me which I clearly stated were damaged. I did at the time notice they left > about 25% negative or neutral feedback, so was expecting that, but they > never left any feedback for me. > On 12 Dec 2014 01:00, "Stewart Cobb" wrote: > >> I have bought several items from this seller and left positive feedback >> because the items arrived promptly and appeared to work. Problems only >> became apparent days, weeks, or months later. But by then it was too late >> to change feedback. >> >> This seller admits to changing the firmware on a GPSDO to "upgrade" it to a >> more valuable part number. I bought a device from him for which included a >> newly fabricated sheet-metal case complete with new false trademarked >> labels. It's a very good fake, but it was not in fact produced by the >> manufacturer whose name is on the label, and it did not meet the >> requirements of the device inside. I have bought other devices from him >> which had other problems. >> >> It is possible that the seller is obtaining his stock from other sources >> inside China, and that he is not directly involved in changing firmware or >> creating fakes. It is possible that he himself is an innocent victim of >> sharp practice by others. I make no direct accusations. However, the >> equipment I have obtained from this seller in the past has not proved >> satisfactory to me over the long term, and I have chosen not to do business >> with this seller in the future. >> >> Cheers! >> --Stu >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] TIC users
Ran across this in my 'net travels: http://www.maximintegrated.com/en/products/analog/sensors-and-sensor-interface/MAX35103.html American supplier, 20 ps accuracy claimed time interval to digital. Don -- "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mail: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] LTE-Lite
actually, Magritte had it: “this is not a pipe” Don > On Dec 5, 2014, at 8:01 AM, Chuck Harris wrote: > > The OP said he couldn't find anything applicable when he was > looking for "light pipe". So, I offered him a suggestion for > why. Ultimately, we are talking about locating something > using a search engine. > > The public has taken to the high tech sounding term "fiber optic" > to describe what used to be called a light pipe. If it is thin, > and flexible, and moves light from one location to another, it > will be known to most people as "fiber optic". > > As an example, sitting here on my workbench is a light that I use > to illuminate objects under my Olympus stereo microscope. It is > made by Nikon, and has the following words inscribed on its panel: > > "NIKON, Inc. MKII Fiber Optic Light" > > Do you imagine that it is a precision glass or plastic waveguide, > or just a flexible light pipe? > > -Chuck Harris > > > > paul swed wrote: >> That is a good suggestion. But I fall into the camp. "Not really that >> important now." >> At least not to get me to pull it out of the rack. :-) >> The little LED are pretty bright and I remember some broadcast equipment >> used light pipes. >> OK now I am going to get silly but this is time-nuts. I think light pipe >> and fiber optics are two different terms. >> Yes they both pass light. But a fiber optic is a precision glass or plastic >> waveguide. A light pipe is a bulk piece of plastic that is not a wave guide >> in respect to the accuracy of the walls. >> Oh I am so doomed now that I said that. >> Regards >> Paul >> WB8TSL > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Convert Stanford Research SR620 time-interval counter to SR625 ???
Hi Dave: My 620 arrived with option 01, but the ocxo was out of tolerance and I could not bring it to 10 MHz. So I adapted a Morion that I had on hand. The self-test passed, but of course there is no way to self-test the frequency of the internal standard. I may open up the original osc or not. The noise should be ok, there is another regulator for the works in the ocxo. If the 620 did not have 01 option, a morion could easily br installed according to the schematics, I think. Don > On Dec 3, 2014, at 8:39 AM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) > wrote: > > On 28 Nov 2014 02:06, "Don Latham" wrote: >> >> I’ve just replaced the SR620 oxco option 01 with a Morion, by simply > adding a 7812 to the 15 v heater > > Did the SR620 have option 01 before you did the mod? > > In other words, did you change to the Moxen because you believe it is > better than Stanford Research's high stability, or just because the SR620 > had the TCXO? > > Will the 7812 not add noise? There are lot lower noise devices around, but > I guess if it only powering the oven, it is not important > > I am still waiting to hear my SR620 has been dispatched. > > Dave. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] uCenter driver
One of the lists I get bemoans a loss of connection due to FTDI action against counterfeits. Don Bob Camp > Hi > > I have never seen driver level com port allocation problems on any version of > Windows using the FTDI drivers. They have always been well behaved and stable. > That’s why I designing in their chips …. > > Bob > >> On Nov 30, 2014, at 4:53 PM, Hal Murray wrote: >> >> >> michael.c...@sfr.fr said: >>> There has recently been comments on the COM port allocation in relation to >>> the LTE-Lite project which reminded me that I have seen an issue trying to >>> run multiple instances of the uCenter software in order to >>> monitor/configure >>> multiple uBlox receivers at the same time. Unfortunately only one virtual >>> COM port is created located to the first instance. I cannot get multiple >>> COM >>> ports allocated when plugging in another unit. Anyone seen this? ... >> >> The LTE-Lite uses a vanilla FTDI serial to USB chip. I use Linux and often >> have more than one plugged into a system without any problems. >> >> I'd be surprised if Windows has troubles with more than one. (But I've been >> surprised before.) >> >> I don't know anything about the uCenter software. >> >> Can you talk to both with your favorite terminal program? >> >> >> >> -- >> These are my opinions. I hate spam. >> >> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mail: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Convert Stanford Research SR620 time-interval counter to SR625 ???
I’ve just replaced the SR620 oxco option 01 with a Morion, by simply adding a 7812 to the 15 v heater feed. Locks well with either gpsdo or cesium external source. Don’t forget to turn on the external option and set the frequency for 5 or 10 MHz. It took about 5 days for the Morion to reasonably settle down. I agree about the Rb, has to be set with Gpsdo anyway, and I’ve already had 2 of them go South. Prescalers from RFBay. Don > On Nov 27, 2014, at 4:25 PM, Brooke Clarke wrote: > > Hi David: > > For me the key benefit of the SR620 is the 16 digit display. That implies a > lot of digits in the reference (although not all 16 of them) so I always use > an external reference. > > When I turn the PRS-10 upside down the crystal changes frequency and the Rb > corrects the crystal, see: > http://www.prc68.com/I/PRS10.shtml#Accel > http://www.prc68.com/I/Images/FC_ROT.jpg > > Mail_Attachment -- > Have Fun, > > Brooke Clarke > http://www.PRC68.com > http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html > http://www.prc68.com/I/DietNutrition.html > Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) wrote: >> On 27 November 2014 at 22:15, Brooke Clarke wrote: >>> Hi David: >> Hi Brooke >> >>> If you look just to the right of the SR620 you will see a separate box that >>> contains the PRS10. >> Ah, I missed that!!! >> >> I was thinking it fitted inside the SR620, but obviously not. >> >>> The PRS10 can work as either a Rb GPSDO or as a time stamping device. For >>> the SR620 any GPSDO would make a good external reference. >> It would have been nice to have a better reference inside, as >> sometimes I move equipment around, and don't always want to take more >> than necessary, so having a better reference inside would have been a >> nice thing, but I see it is not what I thought. >> >> This unit I purchased has the option 01, the ovenized VCXO, but of >> course that is not going to have the long-term stability of a Rb >> source. >> >> I see one of the SR625 add-ons on eBay, >> >> http://www.ebay.com/itm/STANFORD-RESEARCH-SYSTEMS-SR625-2GHz-PRESCALER-/281486714451?pt=US_Marine_Aircraft_Radios&hash=item4189ea6653 >> >> but it does not look in good condition, so I'm not paying $700 for it. >> >> Dave >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Does adjusting ocxo's degrade adev / madev ?
Just replaced an ocxo in my ST620 with a Moron ocxo, which had been unpowered for a few years in all probability. It took several days to come to a reasonable equilibrium. In a system with as many components as an ocxo, I suspect that seeking a new equilibrium will take an appreciable time well beyond design criteria, as Charles expresses. Hunting time constants may indeed be quite long. Don > On Nov 27, 2014, at 1:48 PM, Charles Steinmetz wrote: > > Mark wrote: > >> I've long had a nagging suspicion that OCXO's that are not adjusted will in >> practice have lower ADEV than ones that are tweaked regularly. Several >> days ago I noticed that one of my 10811's was performing quite well (I >> believe this is the first time any of 10811's have delivered adev / madev >> numbers in the 13's) and this was sustained for approx 2 days. After >> trimming the frequency and letting it sit for a number of hours I noticed >> the adev was notably worse. > > Every time a quartz oscillator is disturbed in any way, its stability is very > likely to go down for a time until it settles back in. The disturbance could > be adjusting its frequency (either mechanically or via EFC), interrupting the > power, changing the crystal temperature, physically bumping the unit, or > anything else that changes its operation. How long it takes to settle back > into "normally stable" operation depends on the crystal itself and on how > violent the disturbance was. I would never expect a quartz oscillator to be > back to normal stability for at least some days after a macro frequency > adjustment. [Tiny, tiny adjustments such as done by ongoing GPS discipline > do not seem to have a large effect on the stability of quartz oscillators.] > > But I note that you say an oscillator that had never delivered stability in > the e-13's had a couple of very good days, and then didn't go back to the > e-13's in a number of hours. First, you probably shouldn't expect it to go > back to the "couple of good days" level -- it's likely to go back to its > "normal" level. And second, you shouldn't expect it to get there for at > least a few days. > > Best regards, > > Charles > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Minicircuits 10% discount in December
As the things I want to do become more complex, and time gets more precious, I have adopted the mantra “buy the biggest piece you can. . .” Don > On Nov 27, 2014, at 1:41 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist > wrote: > > > > On 11/27/2014 11:03 AM, Didier Juges wrote: >> Another reason is reproducibility. If you or someone else wants > > to reproduce your design, using a well defined and available > > commercial part makes it much easier to achieve the same > > performance, particularly for RF components. >> >> Didier KO4BB > > Exactly right. > > I wrote an article on receiving loops and showed a design > with a 50:5 (turns ratio) transformer wound on a toroid. > Again, this is not available from MiniCircuits. I have > wasted time dealing with numerous dumb questions about > "can I use XXX core that I have laying around the lab?" > or can I use a different gauge wire to wind it, etc. > So many people complained about the shipping cost to > buy one core that I stocked the cores and included them > with PC boards I was already selling to reduce the shipping > cost to "zero". > > BTW, 73 material would NOT work in this application. > I was asked about that multiple times even though the > article specifically said it would not work and explained > why. > > Rick Karlquist N6RK > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] LTE-Lite Plans
yes please! Don > On Nov 26, 2014, at 11:45 AM, Jim Sanford wrote: > > Didier: > Please DO share. Thanks! > Jim > > On 11/25/2014 7:47 PM, Didier Juges wrote: >> Jim, >> >> I have somewhere a piece of VB 6.0 code that decodes NMEA sentences and puts >> it pretty on the screen (at least that's how I remember it :). I am not at >> home at the moment but I'll be glad to send it to you if you are interested. >> May not do what you want, but it will get you started. >> >> Didier KO4BB >> www.ko4bb.com >> >> On November 25, 2014 1:42:42 PM CST, Jim Miller wrote: >>> I have one of the LTE-Lite 20Mhz units and plan to use it as a >>> frequency >>> reference for my ham radio gear. My planned setup is as follows: >>> >>> I'm putting it in the recommended Hammond enclosure powered by a USB >>> cable >> >from my PC. I had originally planned to use the wall wart provided but >>> I >>> want to get status from the unit without hacking a window in the top to >>> see >>> the LEDs so I plan to use TBD software to provide a status check. I >>> briefly >>> thought about doing something with an Arduino and display shields but >>> that >>> seemed like too much work for now. >>> >>> I'm using a inverting D FF from TI (SN74aup1g80) as a divide by 2 to >>> provide 10Mhz. The chip and associated passives will be on a little >>> circuit >>> board mounted in the open area normally reserved for the external >>> oscillator. The output of the chip will be connected via a series >>> resistor >>> of about 400 ohms to a SMA connector. This resistor will limit the load >>> on >>> the FF and the LTE-Lite power source. Power will be taken from C6. >>> >>> This output will only go a few inches to a DEMI 10Mhz 4 way splitter >>> The >>> input of the splitter will be equipped with an additional ERA-2+ >>> amplifier >>> (50 ohm input) which will restore the signal levels lost due to the >>> series >>> resistor in the LTE-Lite addon. The DEMI splitter will also be equipped >>> with a manual power switch which will allow me to kill the output of >>> the >>> box if the GPSDO fails for some reason. >>> >>> The little hockey puck antenna will be mounted directly outside the >>> shack >>> wall near a south facing wall which will limit the visibility to only >>> half >>> the horizon. I'm assuming this will be enough for my modest needs. >>> >>> The four outputs will be used as follows: >>> >>> One will go to the K3 ExtREF to provide an external reference. >>> >>> Two will go to separate TX/RX converters for low frequency (<600Khz) >>> use >>> and be used with the transverter I/O on the K3. >>> >>> The last will be used as a general calibration reference. >>> >>> When the power switch on the DEMI splitter is turned off the K3 will >>> revert >>> to using its internal TXCO. >>> >>> I leave the PC running 24/7 and the power to the LTE-Lite would only be >>> interrupted when the PC is rebooted. I don't need a frequency reference >>> during the reboot time since I always operate my rig with the PC on and >>> running. The TBD status software will tell me when the LTE-Lite is >>> synched >>> up again. The PC is served by a UPS and the shack circuit is one which >>> is >>> served by our whole house generator. >>> >>> I have the DEMI splitter built up and working. Now just waiting on >>> enclosure from Digikey. I should have everything running by mid >>> December. >>> >>> I still need to figure out what to use for the status software. Ideally >>> I'd >>> like an applet to display appropriate status indications on my monitor >>> for >>> now I'll examine the uBlox and Putty and if not satisfactory perhaps >>> I'll >>> write something in VB. >>> >>> Feedback and suggestions welcome. >>> >>> 73 >>> >>> Jim ab3cv >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > http://www.avast.com > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] F.S. CORRECTION to model #... EFRATOM SLCR-101 Rb Freq Std
Hello All... CORRECTION to the Model #... Sorry SELLING: EFRATOM SLCR-101 Rb Freq Std 10MHz sine out... +24VDC required This is a very small unit measuring: 3 11/16" x 4 15/16" (5 1/2" to end of connector) x 1 1/16" Slightly bigger than a 3 x 5 filing card!! I do not have the matching 8 pin female connector Unit was purchased for a past project that never happened! SOLD AS-IS... I have never powered up the unit. Physical condition is good. No dents. No dings. BEST OFFER received by end of day, Dec 5th, is the winner. I will pay shipping. U.S. buyer only. I don't want to hassle with customs! Sorry. Payment: Money Order, Personal check or PayPal, your choice. Please contact me OFF LIST. w4wj at aol.com Thank you. 73 Don W4WJ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] F.S. EFRATOM SLCK-101 Rb Freq Std
Hello All... SELLING: EFRATOM SLCK-101 Rb Freq Std 10MHz sine out... +24VDC required This is a very small unit measuring: 3 11/16" x 4 15/16" (5 1/2" to end of connector) x 1 1/16" Slightly bigger than a 3 x 5 filing card!! I do not have the matching 8 pin female connector Unit was purchased for a past project that never happened! SOLD AS-IS... I have never powered up the unit. Physical condition is good. No dents. No dings. BEST OFFER received by end of day, Dec 5th, is the winner. I will pay shipping. U.S. buyer only. I don't want to hassle with customs! Sorry. Payment: Money Order, Personal check or PayPal, your choice. Please contact me OFF LIST. w4wj at aol.com Thank you. 73 Don W4WJ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] F.S. HP 10544A Xtal Osc
Hello All... SELLING: HP 10544A Xtal Osc Osc Assembly and converter board that goes from the Osc TRW/Cinch connector to 15 pin edge connector. Unit was purchased for a past project that never happened! SOLD AS-IS... I have never powered up the unit. Physical condition is good. BEST OFFER received by end of day, Dec 5th, is the winner. I will pay shipping. U.S. buyer only. I don't want to hassle with customs! Sorry. Payment: Money Order, Personal check or PayPal, your choice. Please contact me OFF LIST. w4wj at aol.com Thank you. 73 Don W4WJ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] ocxo
sorry, Bob, I spaced this one. The dac is indeed a trimpot, and if the external source is enabled, the 1:1 pll controls the ocxo through, as you thought, a fast loop, about 2 sec t/c and the trimpot dac is not connected. The pll is an ecl phase detector and a pump, very simple. So the “zero point” of the oxco has no setting voltage? more thought needed! Don > On Nov 23, 2014, at 7:34 PM, Bob Camp wrote: > > Hi > > The main question is - is there a PLL between the external ref and the OCXO? > If so does it go through the DAC? > > If there’s a PLL through the DAC, then bits do matter. If the DAC is simply a > replacement for a trim pot, then it may not matter much at all. The OCXO will > likely age more in a few days than the reported LSB resolution of the DAC. > I’d bet DAC is not part of a PLL. > > Bob > > >> On Nov 23, 2014, at 8:04 PM, Neil Schroeder wrote: >> >> No but a little math based on your ocxo's range can help... but measuring >> it in person does give you the best numbers. >> >> More precision and more bits WON'T hurt here and the application notes from >> the leading crystal makers suggest a DAC front ended by a precision op amp >> with and that the xo be followed by a buffer. So I took the nuclear option: >> >> http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/circuit_notes/CN0257.pdf >> >> My Wenzels don't have a reference out and neither do any of my VCXOs, but >> my $30 Vectron from Ebay does - so my circuit for it is modified to accept >> its reference voltage (its also plugged into an ADF4001 now) >> >> NS >> >> >> On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Bob Camp wrote: >> >>> Hi >>> >>> About the only other question would be the proper resolution for the DAC. >>> There’s not much of a way to to answer that one without playing with a >>> woking original OCXO. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>>> On Nov 23, 2014, at 7:22 PM, Don Latham wrote: >>>> >>>> No question about that. The morion does run a little warmer than the old >>> unit >>>> apparently did. Fan is temp-controlled, so I think OK. will monitor box >>> temp >>>> with a digital :-) thermometer, very poor resolution, but probably ok. >>>> When I get the last obs done. will do a little blurb to the group. >>>> Don >>>> >>>> Bob Camp >>>>> Hi >>>>> >>>>> That sounds fine. Without knowing just what they did or didn’t do, it’s >>> always >>>>> worth being a bit careful. >>>>> >>>>> Bob >>>>> >>>>>> On Nov 23, 2014, at 6:40 PM, Don Latham wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Running very nearly continuously for about 4 days now. The >>> self-measured >>>>>> jitter is mean 0 and sdev of 8 ps. I don't think there is a problem >>> with the >>>>>> Morion. I'm using my newly acquired cs source and a couple of z3801's >>> for >>>>>> checking. 1 bit on the SR's frequency calibration dac seems to be >>> about 4-5 >>>>>> parts in 10^-10 if I'm reading things right. Next test is a z3801 >>> driving >>>>>> the >>>>>> external freq port on the sr to see if the frequency change direction >>> of the >>>>>> morion is OK. >>>>>> The scope display output from the SR620 is great! >>>>>> Lots to learn. Also have one of Said's units coming. Gone nuts for >>> time, >>>>>> won't >>>>>> do anything much new, but it's new to me. All this to drive >>> moonbounce... >>>>>> Don >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Bob Camp >>>>>>> Hi >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If all the “good stuff” runs on the 90 MHz, the 5 MHz issue may not be >>>>>>> important at all. It’s just something to watch for. If you start >>> seeing >>>>>>> data >>>>>>> in two groups, each one 20 ps wide and separated by maybe 200 ps, you >>> are >>>>>>> seeing a problem from the 5 MHz. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Running the box for a while before doing a full detailed cal is a >>> very good >>>>>>> idea. It’s a bit warm inside and some of the stuff is temperature >>>>
Re: [time-nuts] ocxo
The 90 MHz is multiplied up from the 10 MHz, no pll. Done with a 10 mhz rate 5 ns pulse and a filter chain, followed by a comparator and buffer. from the manual: The SR620 has a rear panel input that will accept either a 5 or 10Mhz external timebase. The SR620 phaselocks its internal timebase to this reference. The phase-locked loop has a bandwidth of about 20Hz and thus the characteristics the the SR620's clock, for measurement times longer than 50ms, become that of the external source. For shorter measurement times the clock characteristics are unimportant compared to the internal jitter (25ps rms) of the SR620. Thus, if the signal from a Cesium clock is input into a SR620 with a standard TCXO oscillator the short-term and long-term stability of the SR620 will become that of the Cesium clock. Yes, all jitter is relative... Don Bob Camp > Hi > > The ADEV of the reference source (OCXO / external reference) will most > certainly impact the performance of the counter. The device is just comparing > the input signal to the reference. Which ever one has the worse stability will > limit the measurement. At some point (inside the 90 MHz VCXO’s PLL) jitter on > the reference is no different than jitter on the signal you are trying to > measure. If they do as many do, there’s a PLL that locks the OCXO up to the > external reference through a narrowband loop. You then have two filter corners > to worry about. One between the 90 MHz and the OCXO, the other between the > external ref and the OCXO. > > Bob > >> On Nov 23, 2014, at 8:48 PM, Don Latham wrote: >> >> From the manual, I infer the dac is 10 bit. ( 4096 max count) Span is 5 >> volts. >> I've connected the gpsdo and the clock error light does not light; I'm >> assuming the morion is locking to the gpsdo OK. I do have the original, was >> going to open it up sometime. I suspect something wrong with the heater. >> Should just start by measuring current into + and - 15 volts. >> I think that Said's device could just be put inside the SR fb, and convert >> the >> external input bnc to the gps antenna. No sweat. Even the low end clock osc >> would work quite well, no fancy ocxo needed. SR can also be used with >> internal >> clock if needed. The dac value is saved so the internal osc is automatically >> calibrated by this technique. >> I'm really impressed by this box! A lot of thought went into it. >> Don >> >> Bob Camp >>> Hi >>> >>> About the only other question would be the proper resolution for the DAC. >>> There’s not much of a way to to answer that one without playing with a >>> woking >>> original OCXO. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>>> On Nov 23, 2014, at 7:22 PM, Don Latham wrote: >>>> >>>> No question about that. The morion does run a little warmer than the old >>>> unit >>>> apparently did. Fan is temp-controlled, so I think OK. will monitor box >>>> temp >>>> with a digital :-) thermometer, very poor resolution, but probably ok. >>>> When I get the last obs done. will do a little blurb to the group. >>>> Don >>>> >>>> Bob Camp >>>>> Hi >>>>> >>>>> That sounds fine. Without knowing just what they did or didn’t do, it’s >>>>> always >>>>> worth being a bit careful. >>>>> >>>>> Bob >>>>> >>>>>> On Nov 23, 2014, at 6:40 PM, Don Latham wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Running very nearly continuously for about 4 days now. The self-measured >>>>>> jitter is mean 0 and sdev of 8 ps. I don't think there is a problem with >>>>>> the >>>>>> Morion. I'm using my newly acquired cs source and a couple of z3801's >>>>>> for >>>>>> checking. 1 bit on the SR's frequency calibration dac seems to be about >>>>>> 4-5 >>>>>> parts in 10^-10 if I'm reading things right. Next test is a z3801 >>>>>> driving >>>>>> the >>>>>> external freq port on the sr to see if the frequency change direction of >>>>>> the >>>>>> morion is OK. >>>>>> The scope display output from the SR620 is great! >>>>>> Lots to learn. Also have one of Said's units coming. Gone nuts for time, >>>>>> won't >>>>>> do anything much new, but it's new to me. All this to drive >>>>>> moonbounce... >>>>>> Don >
Re: [time-nuts] ocxo
>From the manual, I infer the dac is 10 bit. ( 4096 max count) Span is 5 volts. I've connected the gpsdo and the clock error light does not light; I'm assuming the morion is locking to the gpsdo OK. I do have the original, was going to open it up sometime. I suspect something wrong with the heater. Should just start by measuring current into + and - 15 volts. I think that Said's device could just be put inside the SR fb, and convert the external input bnc to the gps antenna. No sweat. Even the low end clock osc would work quite well, no fancy ocxo needed. SR can also be used with internal clock if needed. The dac value is saved so the internal osc is automatically calibrated by this technique. I'm really impressed by this box! A lot of thought went into it. Don Bob Camp > Hi > > About the only other question would be the proper resolution for the DAC. > There’s not much of a way to to answer that one without playing with a woking > original OCXO. > > Bob > >> On Nov 23, 2014, at 7:22 PM, Don Latham wrote: >> >> No question about that. The morion does run a little warmer than the old >> unit >> apparently did. Fan is temp-controlled, so I think OK. will monitor box temp >> with a digital :-) thermometer, very poor resolution, but probably ok. >> When I get the last obs done. will do a little blurb to the group. >> Don >> >> Bob Camp >>> Hi >>> >>> That sounds fine. Without knowing just what they did or didn’t do, it’s >>> always >>> worth being a bit careful. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>>> On Nov 23, 2014, at 6:40 PM, Don Latham wrote: >>>> >>>> Running very nearly continuously for about 4 days now. The self-measured >>>> jitter is mean 0 and sdev of 8 ps. I don't think there is a problem with >>>> the >>>> Morion. I'm using my newly acquired cs source and a couple of z3801's for >>>> checking. 1 bit on the SR's frequency calibration dac seems to be about >>>> 4-5 >>>> parts in 10^-10 if I'm reading things right. Next test is a z3801 driving >>>> the >>>> external freq port on the sr to see if the frequency change direction of >>>> the >>>> morion is OK. >>>> The scope display output from the SR620 is great! >>>> Lots to learn. Also have one of Said's units coming. Gone nuts for time, >>>> won't >>>> do anything much new, but it's new to me. All this to drive moonbounce... >>>> Don >>>> >>>> >>>> Bob Camp >>>>> Hi >>>>> >>>>> If all the “good stuff” runs on the 90 MHz, the 5 MHz issue may not be >>>>> important at all. It’s just something to watch for. If you start seeing >>>>> data >>>>> in two groups, each one 20 ps wide and separated by maybe 200 ps, you are >>>>> seeing a problem from the 5 MHz. >>>>> >>>>> Running the box for a while before doing a full detailed cal is a very >>>>> good >>>>> idea. It’s a bit warm inside and some of the stuff is temperature >>>>> sensitive. >>>>> You want it to reach equilibrium. >>>>> >>>>> Bob >>>>> >>>>>> On Nov 23, 2014, at 1:06 AM, Don Latham wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Ah. Got it finally! Doh. Just finished trying out the Morion this >>>>>> afternoon. >>>>>> Electrically works very well. Used a 7812 to drop the +15 volts from the >>>>>> option 1 ocxo, there is enough power headroom to bring the Morion up >>>>>> from >>>>>> cold >>>>>> and run it comfortably. As you said, the control voltage for the >>>>>> original >>>>>> is >>>>>> indeed 5 v, and can be set by the internal d/a. The output of the >>>>>> oscillator >>>>>> passes through an emitter follower voltage adjuster and through a low-q >>>>>> filter >>>>>> to three stages of ECL buffer and then out to the 10 MHz system bus >>>>>> clock. >>>>>> Another path proceeds to a relay-switched divide by 2 to the phase >>>>>> detector >>>>>> so >>>>>> an external 5/10 MHz source can lock the internal oscillator. >>>>>> The external 5/10 MHz source proceeds to the phase detector thru an >>>>>> identical >>>>>>
Re: [time-nuts] ocxo
Schematics in KO4BB magnificent storehouse. Neil Schroeder > Did we answer the q? about schematics? > > All of SRS's products have their block diagram and parts list with a > detailed circuit description in their user manual. Sneak preview: its all > resistors. > > NS > > On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Don Latham wrote: > >> No question about that. The morion does run a little warmer than the old >> unit >> apparently did. Fan is temp-controlled, so I think OK. will monitor box >> temp >> with a digital :-) thermometer, very poor resolution, but probably ok. >> When I get the last obs done. will do a little blurb to the group. >> Don >> >> Bob Camp >> > Hi >> > >> > That sounds fine. Without knowing just what they did or didn’t do, it’s >> always >> > worth being a bit careful. >> > >> > Bob >> > >> >> On Nov 23, 2014, at 6:40 PM, Don Latham wrote: >> >> >> >> Running very nearly continuously for about 4 days now. The self-measured >> >> jitter is mean 0 and sdev of 8 ps. I don't think there is a problem >> with the >> >> Morion. I'm using my newly acquired cs source and a couple of z3801's >> for >> >> checking. 1 bit on the SR's frequency calibration dac seems to be about >> 4-5 >> >> parts in 10^-10 if I'm reading things right. Next test is a z3801 >> driving >> >> the >> >> external freq port on the sr to see if the frequency change direction >> of the >> >> morion is OK. >> >> The scope display output from the SR620 is great! >> >> Lots to learn. Also have one of Said's units coming. Gone nuts for time, >> >> won't >> >> do anything much new, but it's new to me. All this to drive >> moonbounce... >> >> Don >> >> >> >> >> >> Bob Camp >> >>> Hi >> >>> >> >>> If all the “good stuff” runs on the 90 MHz, the 5 MHz issue may not be >> >>> important at all. It’s just something to watch for. If you start seeing >> >>> data >> >>> in two groups, each one 20 ps wide and separated by maybe 200 ps, you >> are >> >>> seeing a problem from the 5 MHz. >> >>> >> >>> Running the box for a while before doing a full detailed cal is a very >> good >> >>> idea. It’s a bit warm inside and some of the stuff is temperature >> >>> sensitive. >> >>> You want it to reach equilibrium. >> >>> >> >>> Bob >> >>> >> >>>> On Nov 23, 2014, at 1:06 AM, Don Latham wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> Ah. Got it finally! Doh. Just finished trying out the Morion this >> >>>> afternoon. >> >>>> Electrically works very well. Used a 7812 to drop the +15 volts from >> the >> >>>> option 1 ocxo, there is enough power headroom to bring the Morion up >> from >> >>>> cold >> >>>> and run it comfortably. As you said, the control voltage for the >> original >> >>>> is >> >>>> indeed 5 v, and can be set by the internal d/a. The output of the >> >>>> oscillator >> >>>> passes through an emitter follower voltage adjuster and through a >> low-q >> >>>> filter >> >>>> to three stages of ECL buffer and then out to the 10 MHz system bus >> clock. >> >>>> Another path proceeds to a relay-switched divide by 2 to the phase >> >>>> detector >> >>>> so >> >>>> an external 5/10 MHz source can lock the internal oscillator. >> >>>> The external 5/10 MHz source proceeds to the phase detector thru an >> >>>> identical >> >>>> buffer chain without the switched divider. The remainder of the clock >> >>>> circuits is a multiplier to 90 MHz. >> >>>> >> >>>> I'll run the autocal tomorrow and then get some jitter stats if >> possible. >> >>>> This >> >>>> is an early specimen, s/n about 700 or so. I can imagine seldom used, >> and >> >>>> sitting on standby for 20 years or so, pushing the ocxo out of >> tolerance. >> >>>> >> >>>> The saga continues; I may have to look for a 10 MHz replacement on >> epay, >> >>>
Re: [time-nuts] ocxo
No question about that. The morion does run a little warmer than the old unit apparently did. Fan is temp-controlled, so I think OK. will monitor box temp with a digital :-) thermometer, very poor resolution, but probably ok. When I get the last obs done. will do a little blurb to the group. Don Bob Camp > Hi > > That sounds fine. Without knowing just what they did or didn’t do, it’s always > worth being a bit careful. > > Bob > >> On Nov 23, 2014, at 6:40 PM, Don Latham wrote: >> >> Running very nearly continuously for about 4 days now. The self-measured >> jitter is mean 0 and sdev of 8 ps. I don't think there is a problem with the >> Morion. I'm using my newly acquired cs source and a couple of z3801's for >> checking. 1 bit on the SR's frequency calibration dac seems to be about 4-5 >> parts in 10^-10 if I'm reading things right. Next test is a z3801 driving >> the >> external freq port on the sr to see if the frequency change direction of the >> morion is OK. >> The scope display output from the SR620 is great! >> Lots to learn. Also have one of Said's units coming. Gone nuts for time, >> won't >> do anything much new, but it's new to me. All this to drive moonbounce... >> Don >> >> >> Bob Camp >>> Hi >>> >>> If all the “good stuff” runs on the 90 MHz, the 5 MHz issue may not be >>> important at all. It’s just something to watch for. If you start seeing >>> data >>> in two groups, each one 20 ps wide and separated by maybe 200 ps, you are >>> seeing a problem from the 5 MHz. >>> >>> Running the box for a while before doing a full detailed cal is a very good >>> idea. It’s a bit warm inside and some of the stuff is temperature >>> sensitive. >>> You want it to reach equilibrium. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>>> On Nov 23, 2014, at 1:06 AM, Don Latham wrote: >>>> >>>> Ah. Got it finally! Doh. Just finished trying out the Morion this >>>> afternoon. >>>> Electrically works very well. Used a 7812 to drop the +15 volts from the >>>> option 1 ocxo, there is enough power headroom to bring the Morion up from >>>> cold >>>> and run it comfortably. As you said, the control voltage for the original >>>> is >>>> indeed 5 v, and can be set by the internal d/a. The output of the >>>> oscillator >>>> passes through an emitter follower voltage adjuster and through a low-q >>>> filter >>>> to three stages of ECL buffer and then out to the 10 MHz system bus clock. >>>> Another path proceeds to a relay-switched divide by 2 to the phase >>>> detector >>>> so >>>> an external 5/10 MHz source can lock the internal oscillator. >>>> The external 5/10 MHz source proceeds to the phase detector thru an >>>> identical >>>> buffer chain without the switched divider. The remainder of the clock >>>> circuits is a multiplier to 90 MHz. >>>> >>>> I'll run the autocal tomorrow and then get some jitter stats if possible. >>>> This >>>> is an early specimen, s/n about 700 or so. I can imagine seldom used, and >>>> sitting on standby for 20 years or so, pushing the ocxo out of tolerance. >>>> >>>> The saga continues; I may have to look for a 10 MHz replacement on epay, >>>> there >>>> isn't room to put in an Hp, unfortunately. >>>> Don >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Bob Camp >>>>> Hi >>>>> >>>>> At least the Morion’s I have seen have 5 MHz crystals in them rather than >>>>> 10 >>>>> MHz. They have a 10 MHz output due to an internal doubler. Since the >>>>> circuit >>>>> is not perfect, there is cycle to cycle variation in the 10 MHz. It’s way >>>>> more >>>>> jitter (measured in picoseconds) than the oscillator has due to phase >>>>> noise. >>>>> My concern is that a counter might be bothered by this is some subtle >>>>> way. >>>>> >>>>> Bob >>>>> >>>>>> On Nov 22, 2014, at 3:55 PM, Don Latham wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Bob: no. cobble, not double :-) A little research has me thinking I >>>>>> can >>>>>> easily adapt a morion. I can try it at least by starting with the morion >>>>>&g
Re: [time-nuts] ocxo
Running very nearly continuously for about 4 days now. The self-measured jitter is mean 0 and sdev of 8 ps. I don't think there is a problem with the Morion. I'm using my newly acquired cs source and a couple of z3801's for checking. 1 bit on the SR's frequency calibration dac seems to be about 4-5 parts in 10^-10 if I'm reading things right. Next test is a z3801 driving the external freq port on the sr to see if the frequency change direction of the morion is OK. The scope display output from the SR620 is great! Lots to learn. Also have one of Said's units coming. Gone nuts for time, won't do anything much new, but it's new to me. All this to drive moonbounce... Don Bob Camp > Hi > > If all the “good stuff” runs on the 90 MHz, the 5 MHz issue may not be > important at all. It’s just something to watch for. If you start seeing data > in two groups, each one 20 ps wide and separated by maybe 200 ps, you are > seeing a problem from the 5 MHz. > > Running the box for a while before doing a full detailed cal is a very good > idea. It’s a bit warm inside and some of the stuff is temperature sensitive. > You want it to reach equilibrium. > > Bob > >> On Nov 23, 2014, at 1:06 AM, Don Latham wrote: >> >> Ah. Got it finally! Doh. Just finished trying out the Morion this >> afternoon. >> Electrically works very well. Used a 7812 to drop the +15 volts from the >> option 1 ocxo, there is enough power headroom to bring the Morion up from >> cold >> and run it comfortably. As you said, the control voltage for the original is >> indeed 5 v, and can be set by the internal d/a. The output of the oscillator >> passes through an emitter follower voltage adjuster and through a low-q >> filter >> to three stages of ECL buffer and then out to the 10 MHz system bus clock. >> Another path proceeds to a relay-switched divide by 2 to the phase detector >> so >> an external 5/10 MHz source can lock the internal oscillator. >> The external 5/10 MHz source proceeds to the phase detector thru an >> identical >> buffer chain without the switched divider. The remainder of the clock >> circuits is a multiplier to 90 MHz. >> >> I'll run the autocal tomorrow and then get some jitter stats if possible. >> This >> is an early specimen, s/n about 700 or so. I can imagine seldom used, and >> sitting on standby for 20 years or so, pushing the ocxo out of tolerance. >> >> The saga continues; I may have to look for a 10 MHz replacement on epay, >> there >> isn't room to put in an Hp, unfortunately. >> Don >> >> >> >> >> Bob Camp >>> Hi >>> >>> At least the Morion’s I have seen have 5 MHz crystals in them rather than >>> 10 >>> MHz. They have a 10 MHz output due to an internal doubler. Since the >>> circuit >>> is not perfect, there is cycle to cycle variation in the 10 MHz. It’s way >>> more >>> jitter (measured in picoseconds) than the oscillator has due to phase >>> noise. >>> My concern is that a counter might be bothered by this is some subtle way. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>>> On Nov 22, 2014, at 3:55 PM, Don Latham wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Bob: no. cobble, not double :-) A little research has me thinking I >>>> can >>>> easily adapt a morion. I can try it at least by starting with the morion >>>> on >>>> an >>>> external power supply and patching the output and control voltages in to >>>> the >>>> sr. >>>> >>>> The sr620 has a control circuit which apparently accomplishes your >>>> suggestions; they claim to use the internal oscillator for short term and >>>> "lock" it to a supplied external source for longer term. Probably has a >>>> long >>>> time constant on the built-in phase lock to do this. >>>> >>>> Anyhow, autocal calibrates everything except, guess what, the 10 mhz >>>> source. >>>> Thats done separately. >>>> So a bootup self check shows OK even if the frequency standard is way off. >>>> >>>> Onward and upward. >>>> Don >>>> >>>> Bob Camp >>>>> Hi >>>>> >>>>> I believe that the SR620 uses a “true” 10 MHz OCXO. I would be careful >>>>> using a >>>>> 5 MHz doubled to 10 OCXO. The counter may or may not be happy with >>>>> sub-harmonic induced jitter. >>>>> >>>>> Best bet at the specs: >>
Re: [time-nuts] ocxo
Ah. Got it finally! Doh. Just finished trying out the Morion this afternoon. Electrically works very well. Used a 7812 to drop the +15 volts from the option 1 ocxo, there is enough power headroom to bring the Morion up from cold and run it comfortably. As you said, the control voltage for the original is indeed 5 v, and can be set by the internal d/a. The output of the oscillator passes through an emitter follower voltage adjuster and through a low-q filter to three stages of ECL buffer and then out to the 10 MHz system bus clock. Another path proceeds to a relay-switched divide by 2 to the phase detector so an external 5/10 MHz source can lock the internal oscillator. The external 5/10 MHz source proceeds to the phase detector thru an identical buffer chain without the switched divider. The remainder of the clock circuits is a multiplier to 90 MHz. I'll run the autocal tomorrow and then get some jitter stats if possible. This is an early specimen, s/n about 700 or so. I can imagine seldom used, and sitting on standby for 20 years or so, pushing the ocxo out of tolerance. The saga continues; I may have to look for a 10 MHz replacement on epay, there isn't room to put in an Hp, unfortunately. Don Bob Camp > Hi > > At least the Morion’s I have seen have 5 MHz crystals in them rather than 10 > MHz. They have a 10 MHz output due to an internal doubler. Since the circuit > is not perfect, there is cycle to cycle variation in the 10 MHz. It’s way more > jitter (measured in picoseconds) than the oscillator has due to phase noise. > My concern is that a counter might be bothered by this is some subtle way. > > Bob > >> On Nov 22, 2014, at 3:55 PM, Don Latham wrote: >> >> Hi Bob: no. cobble, not double :-) A little research has me thinking I can >> easily adapt a morion. I can try it at least by starting with the morion on >> an >> external power supply and patching the output and control voltages in to the >> sr. >> >> The sr620 has a control circuit which apparently accomplishes your >> suggestions; they claim to use the internal oscillator for short term and >> "lock" it to a supplied external source for longer term. Probably has a long >> time constant on the built-in phase lock to do this. >> >> Anyhow, autocal calibrates everything except, guess what, the 10 mhz source. >> Thats done separately. >> So a bootup self check shows OK even if the frequency standard is way off. >> >> Onward and upward. >> Don >> >> Bob Camp >>> Hi >>> >>> I believe that the SR620 uses a “true” 10 MHz OCXO. I would be careful >>> using a >>> 5 MHz doubled to 10 OCXO. The counter may or may not be happy with >>> sub-harmonic induced jitter. >>> >>> Best bet at the specs: >>> >>> +12V power >>> 0-5V EFC >>> Sine wave out +7dbm >>> >>> +/- 5x10^-9 0 to 70C >>> >>> Pinout - trace what you have. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>>> On Nov 21, 2014, at 6:59 PM, Don Latham wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> So, I got a reasonable deal on a SR620 ho ho. Know your dealer. The ocxo >>>> is >>>> out of tolerance. All self tests pass with flying colors, autocal works as >>>> well. So the best parts are OK. >>>> Does anyone: >>>> 1) have a spare Isotemp OCXO36-53 10.000 MHz p/n 6-00051? >>>> 2) know the specs, ie the input voltage/current and the control voltage >>>> span >>>> and direction? pinout? >>>> I have some Morion mv-89's and could easily cobble one in if it will >>>> work. >>>> Apparently a correct oscillator must be in place to use an external >>>> source, >>>> if >>>> I read the manual right. >>>> >>>> 3) do we have a source for the schematics for the SR 620? >>>> >>>> The FTS 4060 is up, pumpin' and firmly locked. At least for now. That >>>> dealer >>>> was not lyin' >>>> >>>> Much thanks to all of you. >>>> The adventure continues >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those >>>> who >>>> have not got it." >>>> -George Bernard Shaw >>>> >>>> Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL >>>> Six Mile Systems LLC >>>> 17850 Six Mile Road >>>> Huson, MT, 59846 >>>> mail: POBox 404 >>>> Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 >>>> VOX 406-626-4304 >>>> Skype: buffle
Re: [time-nuts] rs-422 rs-232 to fast ethernet converter
This kind of device is great, works fine, but hold on to your wallet! I'd look on epaY for something like this... If bought new, it'll cost more than the KS... Don Graham > I have been contemplating how I will would like to interface to the > KS-23461 devices using rs-422. > > One option is a rs-422 to USB cable. Seems easy enough. > > But another option I keep stumbling across is a rs-422/rs-232 to fast > ethernet such as: > > http://www.transition.com/TransitionNetworks/Products2/Family.aspx?Name=SDSFE3110-120 > > Frankly, I have no first hand knowledge or experience with these > devices. First glance suggests that it might just be what I want - easy > access to the KS-23461 ports through a connection to my local network > without having a PC of some sort close by. > > So, any first hand experience with such devices? Good idea or bad? > > cheers, Graham ve3gtc > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mail: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] ocxo
Hi Bob: no. cobble, not double :-) A little research has me thinking I can easily adapt a morion. I can try it at least by starting with the morion on an external power supply and patching the output and control voltages in to the sr. The sr620 has a control circuit which apparently accomplishes your suggestions; they claim to use the internal oscillator for short term and "lock" it to a supplied external source for longer term. Probably has a long time constant on the built-in phase lock to do this. Anyhow, autocal calibrates everything except, guess what, the 10 mhz source. Thats done separately. So a bootup self check shows OK even if the frequency standard is way off. Onward and upward. Don Bob Camp > Hi > > I believe that the SR620 uses a “true” 10 MHz OCXO. I would be careful using a > 5 MHz doubled to 10 OCXO. The counter may or may not be happy with > sub-harmonic induced jitter. > > Best bet at the specs: > > +12V power > 0-5V EFC > Sine wave out +7dbm > > +/- 5x10^-9 0 to 70C > > Pinout - trace what you have. > > Bob > >> On Nov 21, 2014, at 6:59 PM, Don Latham wrote: >> >> >> So, I got a reasonable deal on a SR620 ho ho. Know your dealer. The ocxo is >> out of tolerance. All self tests pass with flying colors, autocal works as >> well. So the best parts are OK. >> Does anyone: >> 1) have a spare Isotemp OCXO36-53 10.000 MHz p/n 6-00051? >> 2) know the specs, ie the input voltage/current and the control voltage span >> and direction? pinout? >> I have some Morion mv-89's and could easily cobble one in if it will work. >> Apparently a correct oscillator must be in place to use an external source, >> if >> I read the manual right. >> >> 3) do we have a source for the schematics for the SR 620? >> >> The FTS 4060 is up, pumpin' and firmly locked. At least for now. That dealer >> was not lyin' >> >> Much thanks to all of you. >> The adventure continues >> >> >> -- >> "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who >> have not got it." >> -George Bernard Shaw >> >> Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL >> Six Mile Systems LLC >> 17850 Six Mile Road >> Huson, MT, 59846 >> mail: POBox 404 >> Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 >> VOX 406-626-4304 >> Skype: buffler2 >> www.lightningforensics.com >> www.sixmilesystems.com >> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mail: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] ocxo
So, I got a reasonable deal on a SR620 ho ho. Know your dealer. The ocxo is out of tolerance. All self tests pass with flying colors, autocal works as well. So the best parts are OK. Does anyone: 1) have a spare Isotemp OCXO36-53 10.000 MHz p/n 6-00051? 2) know the specs, ie the input voltage/current and the control voltage span and direction? pinout? I have some Morion mv-89's and could easily cobble one in if it will work. Apparently a correct oscillator must be in place to use an external source, if I read the manual right. 3) do we have a source for the schematics for the SR 620? The FTS 4060 is up, pumpin' and firmly locked. At least for now. That dealer was not lyin' Much thanks to all of you. The adventure continues -- "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mail: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Yet another GPSDO
big 7 table Don Bob Camp > Hi > > The guy’s email *might* be: bg7...@126.com > > That also could be something else entirely. > > Bob > > On Nov 18, 2014, at 7:34 PM, Bob Camp wrote: >> >> >> Hi >> >> … and indeed it is one. There are a whole range of this and that pieces of >> test gear designed by the guy. >> >> Bob >> >>> On Nov 18, 2014, at 7:28 PM, Alan Hochhalter wrote: >>> >>> BG7TBL sounds like an amateur radio callsign. >>> >>> Alan >>> >>> On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 5:24 PM, Bob Camp wrote: >>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> I’d say this has the look of a hobby / semi-pro project. I’ve seen several >>>> of them done in other areas. Somebody comes up with a pile of parts at the >>>> local market and does a board that at least sort of makes them work. Often >>>> they are based on some sort of open source effort. Without more >>>> information, this is very much a “who knows” sort of thing. >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>>> On Nov 18, 2014, at 7:19 PM, Arthur Dent >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> You can see a similar product by this seller direct - >>>>> >>>>> http://www.cart100.com/seller/bg7tbl/ >>>>> http://www.cart100.com/Product/38848104218/ >>>>> >>>>> Looks like a similar product at almost 3 time the Ebay price. >>>>> There are more photos at the second link under 'specifications' >>>>> and you can read MV89A on the Morion oscillator and see some >>>>> wires patching an error on the bottom of the PC board. Note that >>>>> the seller also has a frequency doubler at about $10. >>>>> >>>>> -Arthur >>>>> ___ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mail: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z381...
Peter... OOOPS... Had only seen a picture of REF0 which has no GPS port!! 73 Don W4WJ In a message dated 11/18/2014 1:07:07 P.M. Central Standard Time, pch@gmail.com writes: Hi Don, J7, marked GPS antenna is a good start. This connector also powers your GPS Antenna. Take care Peter HB9DQY > On 18 Nov 2014, at 11:49, Anthony Roby wrote: > > If you search through the recent messages, you'll see a link to a set of photos I posted. This one https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5tlecUITRBLc3JyMElTdUwzMHM shows the front of the units. J7 provides the GPS power. > > Anthony > > -Original Message- > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Don Murray via time-nuts > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 10:30 AM > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Subject: [time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812 > > Hello all... > > Just getting up to speed on the KS-24361... > > My stupid question (s)... > > Where does the GPS antenna connect?? > > Does the GPS antenna port power the antenna? > > Need a replacement for my dead HP Z3816A... ;-( > > TIA... > > > > 73 > Don > W4WJ > > > > In a message dated 11/18/2014 3:26:52 A.M. Central Standard Time, m...@alignedsolutions.com writes: > > One of my Z3805's (with the double oven 10811 ocxo iirc) also performs > similarly at times to the 58503A mentioned by Said. From an adev perspective > it's close to my BVA at some tau's (around a hundred seconds or so iirc.) > At times though the output seems to "jump" in frequency. My other Z3805 > from the same source doesn't work as well. > > None of the 10811's in my various pieces of test gear (some of which I basically purchased to get the 10811's) worked all that well from an Adev perspective. I used to buy HP5328 counters on the usual auction site with > 10811's and the 500MHz C channel for quite low prices. At least I still have > a nice collection of frequency counters. > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 2014-11-17, at 1:23 PM, Said Jackson via time-nuts > wrote: > >> Correct on all counts Bob. >> >> My two 58503A units from China are great for both ADEV and PN > measurements, better than anything else I have as a combo (I have Wenzel ULNs for even lower PN testing but they don't have any usable ADEV). I also have a costly BVA and it can't compete against the HP unit. >> >> Those 10811s just rule. >> >> In fact my only complaint about the 58503A are the 60Hz related small > spurs you can see in the plots... >> >> Bye, >> Said >> >> Sent From iPhone >> >>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 12:28, Bob Camp wrote: >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> The 58503 is a Z3801 with a pretty instrument style package put >>> around > it - right? >>> >>> If so, it might / shouldhave a 10811 in it rather than an MTI OCXO. > The 10811 is rated for -155 dbc at 100 Hz. That is much better than the noise floor that the MTI ??s seem to produce at 100 Hz. About the only other GPSDO OCXO that gets to that level is the one in the original TBolts . There you very much have to deal with spurs. That make the noise floor of limited use in a practical system. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:26 PM, saidj...@aol.com wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Bob, >>>> >>>> yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten, no doubt. The 15MHz plot is quite >>>> good > till about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty rotten too. >>>> >>>> Here is one of my 58503A units (using the 10811 OCXO) as a > comparison.. measured against our DROR-IIA (this plot was actually done to show the DROR-IIA PN, but since that unit actually has less noise and spurs than the 58503A we can simply use it as the reference for this purpose). >>>> >>>> The good news is that getting the close-in phase noise to be good >>>> is > very hard to do and the unit delivers that out-of-the box already. Filtering out the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset is pretty easy to do. It should be fairly straight forward to cobble up a small PN filter for those units to get rid of the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset. >>>> >>>> bye, >>>> Said >>>> >>>> In a message dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46 Pacific Standard Time, > kb...@n1k.org writes: >>>> Hi >>>> >>
Re: [time-nuts] z3816 what happened?
Hi Paul... No... As a matter of fact, it stoped working down if Florida a few years back. Went into the ALARM mode and that was it!! Had a HP Rb box, so didn't worry about it too much. Moved to Texas a few years ago... Rb box on the shelf, so decided to fire the 3816A up and see what would happen. It had been on the shelf for several years... So it came up and locked and we were good to go!! But, after a few weeks and the first practice FMT, the 3816A went back into alarm. Had not been able to get the K8CU software going to talk to the 3816A so don't know what the alarm is about. Have tried to recycle it again, but it comes up in the alarm mode and that is where it sits. Using it with the HP mushroom antenna. That's my story, and no one seems to be working on these guys... ;-( 73 Don W4WJ In a message dated 11/18/2014 12:29:07 P.M. Central Standard Time, paulsw...@gmail.com writes: Wonder if the ole lightning gods visited since you are in 4 land. Regards Paul WB8TSL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z381...
TNX Peter!! I had only seen a picture of REF1, with no GPS connector!! 73 Don W4WJ In a message dated 11/18/2014 1:07:07 P.M. Central Standard Time, pch@gmail.com writes: Hi Don, J7, marked GPS antenna is a good start. This connector also powers your GPS Antenna. Take care Peter HB9DQY > On 18 Nov 2014, at 11:49, Anthony Roby wrote: > > If you search through the recent messages, you'll see a link to a set of photos I posted. This one https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5tlecUITRBLc3JyMElTdUwzMHM shows the front of the units. J7 provides the GPS power. > > Anthony > > -Original Message- > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Don Murray via time-nuts > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 10:30 AM > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Subject: [time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812 > > Hello all... > > Just getting up to speed on the KS-24361... > > My stupid question (s)... > > Where does the GPS antenna connect?? > > Does the GPS antenna port power the antenna? > > Need a replacement for my dead HP Z3816A... ;-( > > TIA... > > > > 73 > Don > W4WJ > > > > In a message dated 11/18/2014 3:26:52 A.M. Central Standard Time, m...@alignedsolutions.com writes: > > One of my Z3805's (with the double oven 10811 ocxo iirc) also performs > similarly at times to the 58503A mentioned by Said. From an adev perspective > it's close to my BVA at some tau's (around a hundred seconds or so iirc.) > At times though the output seems to "jump" in frequency. My other Z3805 > from the same source doesn't work as well. > > None of the 10811's in my various pieces of test gear (some of which I basically purchased to get the 10811's) worked all that well from an Adev perspective. I used to buy HP5328 counters on the usual auction site with > 10811's and the 500MHz C channel for quite low prices. At least I still have > a nice collection of frequency counters. > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 2014-11-17, at 1:23 PM, Said Jackson via time-nuts > wrote: > >> Correct on all counts Bob. >> >> My two 58503A units from China are great for both ADEV and PN > measurements, better than anything else I have as a combo (I have Wenzel ULNs for even lower PN testing but they don't have any usable ADEV). I also have a costly BVA and it can't compete against the HP unit. >> >> Those 10811s just rule. >> >> In fact my only complaint about the 58503A are the 60Hz related small > spurs you can see in the plots... >> >> Bye, >> Said >> >> Sent From iPhone >> >>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 12:28, Bob Camp wrote: >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> The 58503 is a Z3801 with a pretty instrument style package put >>> around > it - right? >>> >>> If so, it might / shouldhave a 10811 in it rather than an MTI OCXO. > The 10811 is rated for -155 dbc at 100 Hz. That is much better than the noise floor that the MTI ??s seem to produce at 100 Hz. About the only other GPSDO OCXO that gets to that level is the one in the original TBolts . There you very much have to deal with spurs. That make the noise floor of limited use in a practical system. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:26 PM, saidj...@aol.com wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Bob, >>>> >>>> yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten, no doubt. The 15MHz plot is quite >>>> good > till about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty rotten too. >>>> >>>> Here is one of my 58503A units (using the 10811 OCXO) as a > comparison.. measured against our DROR-IIA (this plot was actually done to show the DROR-IIA PN, but since that unit actually has less noise and spurs than the 58503A we can simply use it as the reference for this purpose). >>>> >>>> The good news is that getting the close-in phase noise to be good >>>> is > very hard to do and the unit delivers that out-of-the box already. Filtering out the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset is pretty easy to do. It should be fairly straight forward to cobble up a small PN filter for those units to get rid of the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset. >>>> >>>> bye, >>>> Said >>>> >>>> In a message dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46 Pacific Standard Time, > kb...@n1k.org writes: >>>> Hi >>>> >>>>
Re: [time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z381...
TNX Paul and Anthony... More questions... ;-) I see that the REF1 type unit outputs 15MHz... The REF0 unit has both 15MHz and 10MHz... So, if I am going to use GPS, I need REF1, but it only does 15MHz out, and I need 10MHz for my stuff... so how do REF1 and REF0 interface?? Or does it work that way?? TNX guys!! 73 Don W4WJ In a message dated 11/18/2014 12:28:06 P.M. Central Standard Time, paulsw...@gmail.com writes: In the picture its the top unit ref1 and its the left hand TNC and it does power the antenna. If no antenna you need to tie a resistor to ground on the tnc to fake it out. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Anthony Roby wrote: > If you search through the recent messages, you'll see a link to a set of > photos I posted. This one > https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5tlecUITRBLc3JyMElTdUwzMHM shows the > front of the units. J7 provides the GPS power. > > Anthony > > -Original Message- > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Don > Murray via time-nuts > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 10:30 AM > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Subject: [time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom > Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812 > > Hello all... > > Just getting up to speed on the KS-24361... > > My stupid question (s)... > > Where does the GPS antenna connect?? > > Does the GPS antenna port power the antenna? > > Need a replacement for my dead HP Z3816A... ;-( > > TIA... > > > > 73 > Don > W4WJ > > > > In a message dated 11/18/2014 3:26:52 A.M. Central Standard Time, > m...@alignedsolutions.com writes: > > One of my Z3805's (with the double oven 10811 ocxo iirc) also performs > similarly at times to the 58503A mentioned by Said. From an adev > perspective > it's close to my BVA at some tau's (around a hundred seconds or so iirc.) > At times though the output seems to "jump" in frequency. My other Z3805 > from the same source doesn't work as well. > > None of the 10811's in my various pieces of test gear (some of which I > basically purchased to get the 10811's) worked all that well from an Adev > perspective. I used to buy HP5328 counters on the usual auction site with > 10811's and the 500MHz C channel for quite low prices. At least I > still have > a nice collection of frequency counters. > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 2014-11-17, at 1:23 PM, Said Jackson via time-nuts > > wrote: > > > Correct on all counts Bob. > > > > My two 58503A units from China are great for both ADEV and PN > measurements, better than anything else I have as a combo (I have Wenzel > ULNs for even lower PN testing but they don't have any usable ADEV). I > also have a costly BVA and it can't compete against the HP unit. > > > > Those 10811s just rule. > > > > In fact my only complaint about the 58503A are the 60Hz related small > spurs you can see in the plots... > > > > Bye, > > Said > > > > Sent From iPhone > > > >> On Nov 17, 2014, at 12:28, Bob Campwrote: > >> > >> Hi > >> > >> The 58503 is a Z3801 with a pretty instrument style package put > >> around > it - right? > >> > >> If so, it might / should have a 10811 in it rather than an MTI OCXO. > The 10811 is rated for -155 dbc at 100 Hz. That is much better than the > noise floor that the MTI ??s seem to produce at 100 Hz. About the only > other GPSDO OCXO that gets to that level is the one in the original TBolts > . There you very much have to deal with spurs. That make the noise floor > of limited use in a practical system. > >> > >> Bob > >> > >>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:26 PM, saidj...@aol.com wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Bob, > >>> > >>> yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten, no doubt. The 15MHz plot is quite > >>> good > till about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty rotten too. > >>> > >>> Here is one of my 58503A units (using the 10811 OCXO) as a > comparison.. measured against our DROR-IIA (this plot was actually done > to show the DROR-IIA PN, but since that unit actually has less noise and > spurs than the 58503A we can simply use it as the reference for this > purpose). > >>> > >>> The good news is that getting the close-in phase noise to be good > >>> is > very hard to do and the unit delivers that out-of-the box already. > Filtering out the noise and spurs above 40Hz
[time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812
Hello all... Just getting up to speed on the KS-24361... My stupid question (s)... Where does the GPS antenna connect?? Does the GPS antenna port power the antenna? Need a replacement for my dead HP Z3816A... ;-( TIA... 73 Don W4WJ In a message dated 11/18/2014 3:26:52 A.M. Central Standard Time, m...@alignedsolutions.com writes: One of my Z3805's (with the double oven 10811 ocxo iirc) also performs similarly at times to the 58503A mentioned by Said. From an adev perspective it's close to my BVA at some tau's (around a hundred seconds or so iirc.) At times though the output seems to "jump" in frequency. My other Z3805 from the same source doesn't work as well. None of the 10811's in my various pieces of test gear (some of which I basically purchased to get the 10811's) worked all that well from an Adev perspective. I used to buy HP5328 counters on the usual auction site with 10811's and the 500MHz C channel for quite low prices. At least I still have a nice collection of frequency counters. Sent from my iPad On 2014-11-17, at 1:23 PM, Said Jackson via time-nuts wrote: > Correct on all counts Bob. > > My two 58503A units from China are great for both ADEV and PN measurements, better than anything else I have as a combo (I have Wenzel ULNs for even lower PN testing but they don't have any usable ADEV). I also have a costly BVA and it can't compete against the HP unit. > > Those 10811s just rule. > > In fact my only complaint about the 58503A are the 60Hz related small spurs you can see in the plots... > > Bye, > Said > > Sent From iPhone > >> On Nov 17, 2014, at 12:28, Bob Camp wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> The 58503 is a Z3801 with a pretty instrument style package put around it - right? >> >> If so, it might / should have a 10811 in it rather than an MTI OCXO. The 10811 is rated for -155 dbc at 100 Hz. That is much better than the noise floor that the MTI’s seem to produce at 100 Hz. About the only other GPSDO OCXO that gets to that level is the one in the original TBolts . There you very much have to deal with spurs. That make the noise floor of limited use in a practical system. >> >> Bob >> >>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:26 PM, saidj...@aol.com wrote: >>> >>> Hi Bob, >>> >>> yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten, no doubt. The 15MHz plot is quite good till about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty rotten too. >>> >>> Here is one of my 58503A units (using the 10811 OCXO) as a comparison.. measured against our DROR-IIA (this plot was actually done to show the DROR-IIA PN, but since that unit actually has less noise and spurs than the 58503A we can simply use it as the reference for this purpose). >>> >>> The good news is that getting the close-in phase noise to be good is very hard to do and the unit delivers that out-of-the box already. Filtering out the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset is pretty easy to do. It should be fairly straight forward to cobble up a small PN filter for those units to get rid of the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset. >>> >>> bye, >>> Said >>> >>> In a message dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46 Pacific Standard Time, kb...@n1k.org writes: >>> Hi >>> >>> Here’s the phase noise on the 15 MHz. There are a few spurs, and an very real hump out at the likely frequency of the Lucent switcher. The 15 MHz is pretty clean compared to most /all of the other units I’ve seen on the surplus market. >>> >>> I would not multiply this up to 40 GHz with a broadband multiplier. I would be quite happy to run it into a PLL with a rational bandwidth. You will beat the noise on the output with a fairly simple VHF VCXO past 100 Hz. No reason to have a bandwidth outside the 20 to 80 Hz range. >>> >>> Math: >>> >>> 15 MHz to 150 MHz -> 20 log (N) -> 20 db. >>> >>> -140 dbc / Hz shown below at 100 Hz offset -> -120 dbc/Hz >>> >>> You can get numbers better than -120 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset out of a number of pretty simple VHF VCXO circuits. Bert has one that seems to work fine for him. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Division Circuit
Thanks. You reminded me of the time when really had content. No more, I'm afraid... Don Azelio Boriani > No need to digitize, the article is available here: > <http://www.edn.com/design/test-and-measurement/4347165/Circuit-divides-frequency-by-N-1> > or here (in .PDF): > ftp://ztchs.p.lodz.pl/PRP/PRP_2006_2007/71102di.pdf > > On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 8:02 AM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts > wrote: >> List, >> >> >> >> I’ve digitized and edited an article titled* Circuit DividesFrequency by N+1 >> by Bert Erickson, Fayetteville, NY from EDN 7/11/2002*. >> >> >> >> Essentially, this circuit is expandable and allows for adivision by any >> number plus one. >> >> >> >> Anyone who wants a PDF copy please send me an original emailoff list. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> >> >> Perrier >> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mail: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] strange carrier
7.6 Hz is very close to the Schumann resonance fundamental. Don Doug Ronald > I'm working on my WWVB BPSK receiver and am receiving a carrier, 10 dB > stronger than WWVB in Sunnyvale, California, quite stable, on the air 24/7 > at a frequency of 59.99240 kHz. I have researched on Internet what it might > be, with no results. I have turned off all switch mode power supplies at my > location with no effect. The carrier is so stable that it seems like it must > be something intentionally generated. I have not tried nulling it out with > my directional antenna yet. > > > > Anyone have a clue as to what I might be receiving? > > > > Thanks, > > -Doug Ronald > > W6DSR > > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mail: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Quad Driven Mixer 5 to 10 MHz Doubler Atricle
I digitized the first 2011 article to hand, the one in Jan-Feb; it's a smaller article, and not as elegant as the later one. Anyone interested can email me off-list. You're allowed to have a copy for your own use, just can't re-publish. Don Jim Sanford > I'm a member, and the article is not there -- just the Excel spreadsheet > and a Word document of the parts list. > Too bad, I have a handful of 5 MHzx TCXOs. > I may have hardcopy of the issue, will have to dig for it. > > Jim > wb4...@amsat.org > > On 11/12/2014 3:34 PM, Dave M wrote: >> I am able to download the files associated with the article, but not >> the article itself. Guess I need to be a paying member to get the >> article. The only files in the download are the XLS file for >> calculating the filter values, and the parts list. >> >> It's at http://www.arrl.org/qexfiles in the year 2011 listings, >> filename 3x11_Roos.zip >> titled "Converting a Vintage 5 MHz Frequency Standard to 10 MHz with a >> Low Spurious Frequency Doubler" >> >> Dave M >> >> John C. Roos via time-nuts wrote: >>> Several list members contacted me expressing interest in the >>> article. None of them were able to download much or anything >>> from the ARRL QEX web site. That includes me and other ARRL members. >>> I am working the issue with one call to ARRL so far today. I will >>> contact Larry Wolfgang at ARRL and see what Ican bust loose. So >>> hang in there. It is a cute technique, not originated by me, but >>> useful. Right now I have to get the ARRL FMT done first. >>> -73 john c roos k6iql >> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > > --- > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus > protection is active. > http://www.avast.com > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mail: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Quad Driven Mixer 5 to 10 MHz Doubler Atricle
It's interesting. I took the hint, and tried sin(a)*sin(b) expand and set b=a+pi/2. fun fun fun. All that's needed in theory is a mixer and a pi/2 phase shifter at 5 MHz. Probably a bunch of other stuff because of real parts :-) Minicircuits will sell you one, packaged, for about 50 rasbucknicks. Don Dave M > I am able to download the files associated with the article, but not the > article itself. Guess I need to be a paying member to get the article. The > only files in the download are the XLS file for calculating the filter > values, and the parts list. > > It's at http://www.arrl.org/qexfiles in the year 2011 listings, filename > 3x11_Roos.zip > titled "Converting a Vintage 5 MHz Frequency Standard to 10 MHz with a Low > Spurious Frequency Doubler" > > Dave M > > John C. Roos via time-nuts wrote: >> Several list members contacted me expressing interest in the >> article. None of them were able to download much or anything >> from the ARRL QEX web site. That includes me and other ARRL members. >> I am working the issue with one call to ARRL so far today. I will >> contact Larry Wolfgang at ARRL and see what Ican bust loose. So >> hang in there. It is a cute technique, not originated by me, but >> useful. Right now I have to get the ARRL FMT done first. >> -73 john c roos k6iql > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mail: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 GPSDO question
You can get anything you want... GandalfG8--- via time-nuts > In a message dated 09/11/2014 21:33:48 GMT Standard Time, > t...@leapsecond.com writes: > > and 27 8×10 color glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph > on the back of each one. > Now that's not something I've heard for a while:-) > > Nigel > GM8PZR > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mail: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] pn3048 software
Hi Ivan: I agree about the usefulness of noise sources. Also good with my spectrum analyzer for filters, amps, etc. But I haven't sen any cheap ones on ebay at least, HP's and equivalents are around $1000 or so. Am I looking for the right thing? Don Ivan.Cousins > Does anyone else have the pn3048 software running on a PC-gpib system? > > http://www.ke5fx.com/pn3048.htm > > It has been a number of years since I have used a HP3048A-HP11848A system. > I have two HP11848A test sets and a spare PC or two with NI GPIB cards. > > It looks like this will be much easier to use than the old HP 9236 computer. > > What trials and tribulations have people had in setting up a system with > that software? > > One of the things that can be done is determining the noise floor of the > system. > To determine the noise floor I have used a noise generator with a > programmable step attenuator through a resistive combiner with the > oscillator under test output. > > Increase the attenuation until the noise source on-off level is > undetectable. > This is an easy way to measure the system noise floor. > Noise sources are usually cheap on ebay because most people do not know > how to use them. > As an RF designer they are easy to use for testing receivers. > > Ivan Cousins > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mail: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
