Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements
Its not in the Loomis article, lunar influence is in the Brown and Brouwer analysis, beginning on pg. 581. -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bill Hawkins Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 11:12 AM To: 'Bill Hawkins'; 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements Sorry, I should have read the article. It was found by asking for "Loomis moon pendulum" The article is fascinating to Shortt clock fans, but does not mention the moon. Use their "page back" to get the whole article. Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: Bill Hawkins [mailto:b...@iaxs.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 9:54 AM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: RE: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements Here's a specific reference from 1931: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1931MNRAS..91..575B Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Brooke Clarke Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 12:55 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Shortt Clock Recent Measurements Hi Tom: The way I read the comment about detecting the influence of the Moon was that it was discovered in 1984, but I was under the impression that Loomis found it long before. I looked on other Wiki pages and did not see on any of the them information about Loomis and the effect of the Moon on pendulum clocks. Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is this measurement for real?
Dave - Let me call your attention to the FMT nuts list if you are not already on it (I didn't find an entry from you in the November ARRL FMT). I'm not sure how many of the gurus there are on this one, although the HP 3586B is a tool used by some. I myself depend on some HP gear, a 105B and 8640B. There you can inquire and learn about AM BC stations locked or not to gps, as well as intentional carrier offset applied to mitigate slow deep fading in zones of overlapping coverage. http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FMT-nuts/info 73, Ed, k1ggi -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of quartz55 Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2013 21:06 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Is this measurement for real? Well, thanks for the comments. I really didn't know what to expect from the SoundBlaster card. I thought AM stations were better than that. I started everything cold today and the 1K from the SM started at around 999.998600 and drifted up to 999.999800 in about an hour and half, stayed there around 4 hours but then started back down to 999.999290 in another 4 hours. It's going back up a bit tonight, it's around 999.999420 now. I do see in SpecLab there is a way to lock the sound card to a 1pps GPSDO. I may try that, but my Nortel only puts out even second pulses and I really haven't seen them yet. Anyhow, after warm up, it looks like I should be able to detect 1 mHz differences given other things are stable, like the DSP in the TS2000, I'm thinking about running the fan full time in it to try to stabalize that. How about the UHF TV stations, are they locked to something, they all seem to be on even .025 KHz on my service monitor which can only resolve to 1 Hz? I'm looking for frequency standards I can receive better than the 2M/440 beacons (N4MW) I can hardly hear from central VA. WWV is about useless, I get 2 Hz spreads from them with SpecLab at 20 MHz, it may be WWVH interefering. I have to say, I've gone from hardly being able to measure 1 Hz differences with the service moniter to nearly mHz differences, that's what 3 decimel places? It's funny how the closer you get the closer you want to get. And now to figure out how accurate it is. I've got a FT897D I'm not using, been thinking about selling it and get Jackson Labs unit, but I'm not sure what that will get me past the Nortel unless the extra satellites/bands will make it more accurate? Dave N3DT ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWVB remodulator for the Spectracom 8170...
>Weird.. where does that 3V in my mind come from? Metal gate cmos. Ed -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Attila Kinali Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 18:11 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB remodulator for the Spectracom 8170... On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 17:51:29 -0400 paul swed wrote: > Thanks Attila Burts looking to separate the rcvr/remodulator. I am fine. > Yes indeed I did look up the hc specs. I thought it was a 5v logic > actually. I knew it was not at all like the 74c series. That's the HCT which are 5V (the T denotes TTL compatible). I just checked it. NXP specs the HCMOS family as 2-6V, with 5V typical (recomended conditions, _not_ absolute maximum ratings). So it is indeed safe to run them down to 2V. Weird.. where does that 3V in my mind come from? Attila Kinali -- The people on 4chan are like brilliant psychologists who also happen to be insane and gross. -- unknown ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 57600 baud rate with Basic???
Hi Corby, Before you go to all the trouble of venturing into unfamiliar waters, code a few inps and outs to poke a 2 into the uart divisor latch and give it a try. I just tried poking 3 to pull in some 38.4k NMEA strings and its fine. Using v3.22 and W7/32. Ed -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of cdel...@juno.com Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 1:44 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] 57600 baud rate with Basic??? Hi, I'm currently using a GWBasic program at 9600 Baud to get 1 second T.I. data (12 digits) from an SR620 counter, display the reading , put the reading into a file, name the file sequentialy, and either save or delete the file via a function key. I'm switching to a new counter that outputs at 57600 Baud (9 digits). Is there a version of Basic I can use that would support that 57600 Baud rate? Thanks, Corby Woman is 53 But Looks 25 Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors... http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/507462c97549762c919e3st02duc ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New wrist Watch
Stan, You want a Casio Waveceptor WVA470J-1ACF, ana-digi/solar/wwvb. I have a WVA105HDA-2A, no-solar, no sweep hand, been a solid performer. 73, Ed -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Stan, W1LE Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 10:06 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] New wrist Watch Hello The Net: I need to consider getting a new wrist watch, but I need a second hand and a digital display is unacceptable. What would you consider in the < 150$ price range ? Would be nice to have state of the art accuracy with a "lifetime battery" and high reliability. Thanks, Stan, W1LE Cape CodFN41sr ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Determining Time-Nut infection severity
-Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of William H. Fite So.I see no way in which one could determine with precision when life ends. At least not with the precision that this group would consider even minimally acceptable. On this list, acceptability is all according to the exponent. Just fix the TOD within an hour and you are certain to be at E-14 on the cosmological scale. Spectacular. Plus you get to use the word "cosmological". Ed, k1ggi ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS Timing Source -- looking at buying
Keep in mind, SMPTE/EBU is timecode, AES/EBU is digital audio. 3 orders of magnitude difference in the bit rates. Chris was talking timecode. Ed -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 8:38 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS Timing Source -- looking at buying Hi The Thunderbolt has a GPS and an OCXO inside it. It's built in smarts align a PPS created from the OCXO to the GPS PPS. This allows the PPS to be more stable than a normal GPS PPS (less jitter). It also provides holdover on the PPS if and when GPS sat's are not available. Since your ultimate objective is (I think) AES / EBU timing, jitter is an important consideration. Bob On Jul 9, 2010, at 3:10 AM, Chris H wrote: > I might go for the Garmin one to start with, and see how it all works.. > and then move up to a more reliable source of timing source in the > future... > > When you say Reliable, what exactly do you all mean--- > does it loose time? > Does it loose lock to the satellites? > because it's only millisecond accurate, is that your concerns > > Please correct me if I am wrong: > > If it's pulsing every second, and that second is generated by the lock > to the satellite, then should it not be as accurate as the device that > it's getting it's lock from? > > (Sorry I am new to all this) > > > On Fri, 2010-07-09 at 19:02 +1200, Chris H wrote: >> Yes sorry -- stratum 1 -- brain fart :( >> >> >> >> On Fri, 2010-07-09 at 06:32 +, Paul Nicholson wrote: >>> Chris H wrote: Would be good as a timing source for GPS ... make a PC into a Stratum 0 timing device? >>> >>> I think it would count as stratum 1, since you are 1 hop >>> away from a master time source. >>> >>> This page may be of interest, >>> >>> http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/FreeBSD-GPS-PPS.htm >>> >>> Trimble Thunderbolts have been recommended on this list as a >>> proper timing grade GPS, superior to these EOM Garmin GPS units. >>> >>> There's a reliable source of Thunderbolts on E-bay. I currently >>> have one of these on order, >>> >>> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/290322053618 >>> -- >>> Paul Nicholson >>> -- >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] crystal oscillators & TPLL
Careful, I would never renounce my nuttiness, lest something awful happen to me list-wise :) Ed -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Robert Benward Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 12:36 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] crystal oscillators & TPLL So now we, those that want a little more than faith, are nuts. Some day when you learn how to speak to people with respect, you too may get some respect of your own. Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not know the difference. Never wrestle with a pig, you will only get dirty, and the pig likes it. Bob - Original Message - From: "WarrenS" To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] crystal oscillators & TPLL > Thanks Don > > For all the nuts that want the analysis with math and fancy papers on how > (or why) the TPLL works. > They will find the whole thing on one line on page 4-21 of that paper. > (page 110) > That's about it and all that is needed, if one also understands how to do > integration by oversampling or by VtoF. > http://www.am1.us/Papers/U11625%20VIG-TUTORIAL.PDF > > > Another place to find the same thing is on ALLAN's site. > Sorry neither have the long and unreadable fancy papers like some have > posted or wanted > but > Not a whole lot needs to be said about something so simple. > That is really all there is to it, if one starts with Frequency > differences, like the TPLL, and not Phase, like most other methods, to get > the raw data to use with an ADEV program like "PLOTTER". > Note there is no extra S/W processing OR H/W processing or secret anything > needed to be able to do that, because JUST THE BASIC TPLL Block does it > all already. > http://www.allanstime.com/AllanVariance/ > > Under > " Brief Explanation > Allan variance equation: > > > BTW > All those fancy, long and unreadable (by me) papers, are mostly just > trying to get a good close approximation of the above because they start > with phase and not Freq. > The TPLL does not need no approximate anything to get there, IT is already > there and gives that EXACT thing over the total Tau range, for ANY Osc > noise type and as far as I've seen the ONLY method that does. > The TPLL method is limited by its OXCO controlled (reference) Oscillator > plus the noise of its two main parts, that can be made way below ANY OCXO > noise level. > > woops, sorry, I guess some wanted this to remain a "SECRET". > So don't blame me this time, Don and ALLAN are the ones that posted it > and/or said it. > If others want more, It is about time they did something beside complain > about me and what I know or did or did not do. > > ws > > *. > > [time-nuts] crystal oscillators > Don Latham djl at montana.com > Mon Jun 21 23:46:04 UTC 2010 > > > I just found this while noodling around. Looks very good, probably known > to most of you. > Don > http://www.am1.us/Papers/U11625%20VIG-TUTORIAL.PDF > > may have to remove the %20? > > -- > "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are > as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind." > R. Bacon > > > Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL > Six Mile Systems LLP > 17850 Six Mile Road > POB 134 > Huson, MT, 59846 > VOX 406-626-4304 > www.lightningforensics.com > www.sixmilesystems.com > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Z3805 utility, Was: AW: (no subject)
Point of clarification, on a PC RS-232 port, expect to find TxD (output) on pin 2 of a 25-pin D-sub, and on pin 3 of on a 9-pin D-sub. This is a sign of terminal configuration (DTE), and a PC is conventionally a terminal. It would be surprising if your PC isn't. If you don't have a scope, a dc measurement can help clear the air. The resting state of the PC RS-232 TxD pin will be a negative voltage, expect anywhere between -5 and -12 (beyond that would be a little surprising). Easily measured because you can get right on the male pins. The RxD pin wont have much if any on it compared to the TxD. A RS-422 pin should generally not measure negative at all. Don't know the Z38xx family, but my tbolt is DCE, and hooks up with a straight 9-pin cable, which is very convenient as it can be a neat molded straight extension cable or mass-terminated ribbon. For this, you need to find negative resting TxD on pin 2 (so it goes to RxD on the PC). The original Mac had RS-422 (unipolar differential) characteristics that a lot of folks successfully wired directly to RS-232 (bipolar singe-ended), driving one of the differential RxD pins and choosing the right polarity of TxD. Success is mainly a matter of polarity, thresholds, length, and noise margins. Do the Z- boxes look for hardware handshaking? Ed -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of jmfranke Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 5:04 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Z3805 utility, Was: AW: (no subject) Have you looked at the serial connector with an oscilloscope? Pin 2 should be the output data. Pin 3 is for data going into the GPS. And pin 7 is ground. I use Z3801A systems which have a 25-pin connector. Other systems use a 9-pin serial connector. The only difference should be the ground which is on pin 5 for the 9-pin connector. Have you looked at: http://www.realhamradio.com/GPS_Frequency_Standard.htm John WA4WDL -- From: "Robert Benward" Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 3:07 PM To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Z3805 utility, Was: AW: (no subject) > Hi All, > I hooked everything up and I still get nothing. I can't seem to establish > communications with the Z3805. I tried a null modem as well, in case the > cable (supplied) was wired with the wrong connector gender. I see a green > blinking light inside, it he left rear corner of the box. Everything is > warm, but nothing else. Any ideas? > > Bob > > > - Original Message - > From: "Robert Benward" > To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" > > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 9:49 AM > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Z3805 utility, Was: AW: (no subject) > > >> Hi Ulrich, >> Thank you for your response. I hope to try it today if I can get away >> from household duties. Will I need to leave the computer hooked up, or >> will it run stand alone once I set it up? >> >> Thanks, >> Bob >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Ulrich Bangert" >> To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'" >> >> Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 5:50 AM >> Subject: [time-nuts] Z3805 utility, Was: AW: (no subject) >> >> >>> Bob, >>> >>> everything you need for the Z3805 is included in my Z38XX utility, that >>> has >>> already been mentioned. This includes sending commands to the receiver, >>> you >>> do not need another terminal program. I own a Z3805 myself and basically >>> I >>> have written the software for myself. A Z3801 manual in conjunction with >>> Z38XX should take you pretty far in either get it to run or otherwise >>> diagnose a fault. >>> >>> Best regards >>> Ulrich Bangert >>> -Ursprungliche Nachricht- Von: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] Im Auftrag von Robert Benward Gesendet: Samstag, 22. Mai 2010 03:15 An: time-nuts@febo.com Betreff: [time-nuts] (no subject) Hi, I just purchased a Z3805A at the Dayton hamfest this past weekend. How do I get it to work? Do I need software to run this, or can it run stand alone. I have turned it on, but only the power light comes on, the GPS lock, and more importantly, the enable light is not on. There is an 10MHz output, but the holdover light is not on. Is there any freeware available? Any recommendations? Any opinions on this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/GPS-Receiver-Program-HP-Z3801A-Z3805A-Z381 >>> 6A-58540A-/250566043297?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a56e666 >>> a1 >>> >>> Thank you in advance. >>> >>> Bob >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>
Re: [time-nuts] Weird T-Bolt elevation readings...
Mike - On the thunderbolt, what datum do you have selected in Setup > Packet Masks and Options? The default of 0 is the WGS-84 ellipsoid. Looking at the 2003 geoid, Most of Florida is -25 to -30m hae. Try datum 2, it looks like it may approximate NAD-27. Any better? Ed, k1ggi -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of b...@lysator.liu.se Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 4:09 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Weird T-Bolt elevation readings... Hi Bruce, > The GPS altitude is calculated with respect to the geoid. No, the GPS calculates altitude wrt the ellipsoid. Then its a conversion with lots of coefficients or a lookup table to add the geoid separation. Altitude wrt to the geoid is the same as Mean Sea level, which is what normal maps etc gived height in. -- Björn > The geoid surface may have a vertical separation from the actual surface > by several meters. > This correction varies with location on the Earth's surface. > > Bruce > > Michael Baker wrote: >> Hello, TimeNutters-- >> >> While we are on a thread about Trimble T-bolts, >> perhaps someone might expand on why my T-bolt >> does not ever come up with altitude readings that >> are even close. After a long fix, the Lat-Lon >> coordinates are pretty close, but the altitude >> is always given as around 2 meters. We are pretty >> low here in Flori-DUH, but not THAT low. My >> ground elevation here is 28M ABMSL and my >> GPS antenna is another 8M above that on top >> of my fireplace chimney. I have roughly 50 ft >> of RG-59 cable on the antenna, but altering the >> cable length value does not seem to have any >> effect. I get these same very low altitude readings >> with TBOLTMON and Lady Heather v3 beta. >> >> Since I know my altitude well withing one meter, >> should I enter that manually? What is the >> procedure for doing that? >> >> Suggestions...?? >> >> Thanks!! >> >> Mike Baker >> --- >> >> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Tbolt monitor software
Sounds like the tbolt is not getting the queries from the pc and therefore the responses are absent, but the pc is getting the unsolicited info from the tbolt. A fault with pin 3 on the DE9 would do it, or something deeper that kills the pc-to-tbolt comms. Ed, k1ggi -Original Message- From: VK3FGJM [mailto:vk3f...@commtelns.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 3:32 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Tbolt monitor software Hi, Yes, I can see alarm status and changes when unplugging antenna etc. As mentioned the unit actually works, just no data certain displayed. Regards, Gerald VK3FGJM -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of n3...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, 22 January 2009 3:55 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Tbolt monitor software Did you select the right comm port? I power mine off a lot and it has always come back. -Original Message- From: VK3FGJM To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 5:29 am Subject: [time-nuts] Tbolt monitor software Hi group, A strange situation has led me to ask a question about the Tbolt GPSDO and the Trimble Thunderbolt monitor s/w version 2.6. While re-arrangement of the shack, it's been idle for 3 weeks, Tbolt turned off. After turning the unit on and letting it settle some 2 hour, I connected the monitor program and found the following that I can not explain and correct:- * All SV and AMU have question marks * Product info has questions marks * the ability to see tracking status is blank. When last used, some 2 months ago to show a friend, the relevant display data came up, no issues. Further more, position, critical and minor alarms are green, disciplining status section such as DAC voltage DAC value mode and even it's 10MHz out etc etc is fine compared to my trusty Rubidium standard. Has any one seen this before and is there a setting that may have inhibited this feature? I have a screen shot, however it may be to large to attach, so let me know if this will help, I will be glad to forward it to some one with much more knowledge. Thank you in advance. Regards, Gerald VK3FGJM ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Message protected by MailGuard: e-mail anti-virus, anti-spam and content filtering. http://www.mailguard.com.au/mg ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Need schoolin PPM vs E to the umth?
Chris - To help avoid too much confusion, it needs to be pointed out that this 'E' notation gets used somewhat imprecisely in context, and you have to read "what they meant" rather than "what they wrote". In the convention of scientific E notation, Eb (sometimes eb) denotes a factor whose value is 10 raised to the power b. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_notation (This has nothing to do with that mathematical 'e' that gets raised to all sorts of powers in electronics, etc. -- eb does not mean 2.718... raised to the power b.) Examples: 3E2 = 3E+2 = 300, a number with two factors, the first being three and the second being 10 to the power of positive two, or 100. 8E2 = 800 9E2 = 900 10E2 = 1000 1E2 = 100 10E1 = 100 Calculators such as Excel or Google deal with this notation. No explicit symbol for a multiplication operator appears within the notation itself, it is understood. Compare this to caret notation, where a^b denotes a raised to the power b. 3^2 = 9 10^2 = 100 3*10^2 = 300 And just for illustration, e^-1 = 0.36... where this _is_ the 'other' e thing, 2.718 Calculators also understand this notation. Now, the values of 10^2 and 10E2 differ by a factor of 10. 3*10^2 = 300 3*10E2 = 3000 3*1E3 = 3000 3E3 = 3000 So here's the thing. When you read about 1 part in 10^2 or 1 part in 10E2, you find that the writers quite often really meant the same thing, regardless of the numbers being different, and you have to make a mental adjustment. On this list, where precision and accuracy are so highly regarded, this bit of ambiguity is accommodated, but if you're not paying attention, a calculation can be off by a factor of 10. Used equipment also gets described this way when somebody has to type it up, so it pays to check original manufacturer's specs. With some savvy, it's a good bet that when you see a leading 10, i.e. 10Eanything, the writer meant to convey only the general notion of the exponent, not the actual numeric value of the expression. This is because if the actual value were intended, it would have been written as, say, 1E3 rather than 10E2. OTOH, any leading number other than 10, as in 9E2, doesn't readily lend itself to misinterpretation. 10E2 literally means 1000, but may need to be read as 100, whereas 9E2 always means 900. You would think that if something goes from 9 to 10 it would come out bigger, but it doesn't. See? >an oscillator that is accurate to 1%, is accurate to one part in 100, or >expressed in scientific notation, 1 part per 10E2. 10E2 is a number. If you put 1 over 10E2 into a calculator, it doesn't come out 1%, it comes out 0.1%, 10 times smaller, but here the context reveals the intent, so there you go. Intent is harder to figure out when there are a dozen zeros floating around and there is less explanatory context. So just be on guard when you see 10Eanything, check for reasonableness, and consider embracing 1Eanything, which is unambiguous. Not intending to drive anyone nuts, Ed, k1ggi ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] altitude difference between two gps
On the thunderbolt, what datum do you have selected in Setup > Packet Masks and Options? If it is 0 (WGS-84), try 2 (NAD-27). -30m is about right for the geoid height around Las Vegas. Ed, k1ggi -Original Message- From: James R. Gorr [mailto:n3...@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 9:26 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] altitude difference between two gps Hello everyone! I have a tbolt that I am monitoring with tboltmon.exe and some off-brand 12 channel GPS (I bought from Sure Electronics on eBay) that I am monitoring with VisualGPS. Both are fed from the same GPS antenna through a symmetricom splitter. There is a 30 meter difference in the altitude readings between the two. My tbolt says my altitude (after a self-survey) is ~761 meters and the 12 channel Sure Electronics GPS says my altitude is ~791 meters after 7,500+ readings. I took my hand held Garmin 12XL outside and it says my altitude is ~790 meters at street level. Anyone have an idea why my tbolt might be reading different from the other two devices? I am assuming the tbolt is reading low. Jamie ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWV / WWVH / WWVB
Brad Stockdale wrote: How in the heck do you differentiate between the two stations if they broadcast on all the same channels? Brad - Regarding WWV and WWVH, take a look at http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/general/broadcast.htm#1 and http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/general/broadcast.htm#7 Ed ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] THUNBERBOLT PACKET 0X8F-AB
That would be the 'byte stuffing' inherent in TSIP packet structure.
>From the user guide p.A-9...
"To prevent confusion with the frame sequences and ,
every byte in the data string is preceded by an extra byte
('stuffing'). These extra bytes must be added ('stuffed') before
sending a packet and removed after receiving the packet."
Ed, k1ggi
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Hank
Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 11:51 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] THUNBERBOLT PACKET 0X8F-AB
While writing my own software to display time and other status information,
I have noticed a very strange item when packet 0x8F-AB is being sent out.
Normally this packet has 17 bytes with 0XAB being byte 0
While the time is being displayed by the new software, I noticed that every
time the seconds reached 16 the display would be incorrect. Wrote a special
test routine, and there is an extra byte being sent by the Thunderbolt (
firmware REV E ) only for the packet that has seconds equal to 16. ( 16 or
10h ) is send twice !!
Has anyone that is writing display software seen this or any other problem
in the formats ?
I also verified this issue using Procom terminal software that has a monitor
window and captures the data in HEX format !!
Hank
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Re: [time-nuts] Time Nuts at Boxboro
Yes. Careful not to get trampled in the stampede. 73, Ed, k1ggi -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott McGrath Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 1:36 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Time Nuts at Boxboro Anyone going to to the ARRL Regional convention in Boxborough MA this weekend? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] How to get 32.768KHz from 10MHz.
Correction - freq is high (*lead* builds up) for 53msec. Ed abt 200usec of lag accumulates ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] How to get 32.768KHz from 10MHz.
I see I'm coming to the party late, on the heels of Mike and Tom, but here's some additional from playing with the numbers during lunch. A mix of 30.4 us and 31.2 us periods (76 and 78 pic instr loops) in the ratio of 1747 to 301 does it -- 32768Hz with a few percent fm-ing. With just the two outer loops, abt 200usec of lag accumulates (after 53 msec) before it gets pulled back. Some nesting can easily cut that excursion down some. Ed (just posted this from the wrong account, hope it doesn't dupe). ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Near-perfect chip for Loran-C frequency
If there is something smaller than a nit to pick in the grand scheme of things, this may be it. Anyway - these days WWVB is running the depth at 17dB. Interesting info at http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/general/pdf/2139.pdf Ed -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce Griffiths Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 9:25 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Near-perfect chip for Loran-C frequency JJY(40kHz, 60kHz) HBG(75kHz) DCF77(77.5kHz), MSF(60kHz), WWVB(60kHz) all use AM to encode the time using different pulse widths to denote markers , 0 and 1 respectively. WWVB, JJY reduce the power by 10dB to encode 1, 0 etc so that a residual carrier is always present. WWVB also phase modulates the carrier at 1/3600Hz (period = 1hour) with a duty cycle of 5/60. MSF and HBG use ON/OFF keying. DCF77 encodes 1, 0 etc by reducing power to 25%, in addition DCF77 phase modulates the carrier with a PRBS. Since the minimum pulse width used is 0.1sec the receiver's effective bandwidth (when receiving WWVB, MSF or DCF77) need not be more than a few Hz. Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Measuring 10 MHz accurately.
What is the difference between 1E-12, 10E-12, and 10^-12? Ed, K1GGI 2 parts in 10E-12 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
