Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 93, Issue 33
The 5060A was listed at $15,500 in the HP 1966 Index of equipment (page 27) On 8 Apr 2012, at 11:08, Mark Sims wrote: Looks like my keyboard is on the way out... seems to want to type 8's for 6's and a few other keys are also glitching. I think HP charged $60,000 for their first cesium clocks. --- But, how much DID a cesium clock cost in 1966? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Three HP oldies
I'll second that Rob! I have the HP 115BR and, what I believe to be a British version made for the Royal Navy by McMichael. Pictured here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/75ohm/6829984174/ and here http://www.flickr.com/photos/75ohm/6976111697/ Called a 'Clock Direct Reading' carrying NSN 6645-99-972-5270 this incredibly well made device requires a 100KHz input which is divided to 1KHz. This powers a Muirhead motor with an armature speed of 10,000 RPM. This is then geared down to drive a mechanical digital readout. The display can be advanced or retarded using a handwheel which operates a differential gear in the drivetrain. There is a 'pips' output which is 100mS of 1KHz every second. I would be most interested to hear from anyone with information about this device, how and where it was used, circuitry etc. John Howell (in the UK). On 12 Mar 2012, at 10:36, Rob Kimberley wrote: Lovely stuff!! Rob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lancashire Sent: 11 March 2012 17:56 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] Three HP oldies 101A https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/111617808980322733757/albums/571869450289 0226481 115CR https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/111617808980322733757/albums/571869789245 1866241 116AR https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/111617808980322733757/albums/571869946252 1152657 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A 1 pps photo
and here's another photo of the pulse from one of the newer breed of FE-5680A that require the 5V. Taken with a Sony Cybershot H5, 8 sec exposure, 'scope is an elderly Tektronix 2252 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1690159/1PPS_1%20FE-5680E.jpg John H. On 2 Feb 2012, at 15:50, Alberto di Bene wrote: I managed to take a photo at the scope screen showing the 1 pps pulse from an old FE-5680A (the one that does not need the 5V and does not output the oscillator signal - just the 1pps). Exposure was 30 sec, F9. The signal was barely visible with naked eye, and some jittering is present. The room of course was in complete darkness, but the reflex of the stand-by led of another instrument can be seen... 73 Alberto I2PHD http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15089947/1pps.gif ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A 1 pps photo
Not odd but my mistake, I took a picture on both 'scopes and the Fluke gave marginally better results, the text referred to the wrong one. Sorry for the confusion. On 2 Feb 2012, at 16:43, David wrote: Odd. Did Tektronix mark it Fluke PM3082? :) It is nice to know that the current generation of digital cameras can be used for this application. It is too bad that the image has so much noise. On Thu, 2 Feb 2012 16:27:03 +, John Howell j...@howell61.f9.co.uk wrote: and here's another photo of the pulse from one of the newer breed of FE-5680A that require the 5V. Taken with a Sony Cybershot H5, 8 sec exposure, 'scope is an elderly Tektronix 2252 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1690159/1PPS_1%20FE-5680E.jpg On 2 Feb 2012, at 15:50, Alberto di Bene wrote: I managed to take a photo at the scope screen showing the 1 pps pulse from an old FE-5680A (the one that does not need the 5V and does not output the oscillator signal - just the 1pps). Exposure was 30 sec, F9. The signal was barely visible with naked eye, and some jittering is present. The room of course was in complete darkness, but the reflex of the stand-by led of another instrument can be seen... http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15089947/1pps.gif ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Racal-Dana 1991 w. Option 4C - what is that ?
According to the manual (publication TH62B4 issue 4.10.91) options 04T, 04A, 04B are all 10MHz. No mention of 04c. I vaguely remember hearing that Racal were so satisfied with their 5MHz standards than rather than produce a 10MHz version they simply attached a frequency doubler. I have a 9421 with doubler board attached. John H. On 30 Jan 2012, at 17:24, cfo wrote: On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 09:18:32 -0800, Larry McDavid wrote: One does occasionally find Racal 9462 ocxo offered on eBay. Also, one sometimes finds non-operational Racal instruments offered at low price but which to have Option 04E installed. I convinced one seller to remove the Option 04E module (the Racal 9462) and sell just that with much lower shipping cost. There is also what is evidently an older Racal frequency standard module similar in appearance to the 9462 but which has screws attaching the end plate rather than the soldered-can 9462; one of those is seen from time to time on eBay from the UK but I have avoided that. I have been looking for a Racal 9462 ocxo , for my Racal-Dana 1991 counter. I will prob. use my Tbolt anyway , and save the money. But i'm confused ... Is it a 5 Mhz or a 10 Mhz unit. I have found pictures of one claiming it's 5Mhz http://www.jbtech.de/parts/racal_dana/9462.html But i have also received a picture from jaap , with a racal 9492 , where it clearly says its a 10Mhz unit. Can anyone clarify ? I think there was an option that enabled the use of other ocxo values is that why a 5Mhz can be used , in some 1991's ? If i ever decide to get a OCXO , i would like to get the right one. Regards CFO ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] US Army Frequency Standard
Well done Ziggy, I for one am grateful for your efforts, I commented previously on the high standard of construction but I couldn't believe that the angles of the screw slots at the corners of your schematic are identical to those in the lid of my TS65! grin John H. On 26 Jan 2012, at 03:14, Ziggy wrote: I know it's generally bad form to reply to my own post, but if you downloaded the manual already, you may want to do it again. I found a copy of the complete schematic and updated the manual, inserting the schematic where it should be. Ziggy --- On Jan 25, 2012, at 9:48 PM, Ziggy wrote: Well, it's still probably better than nothing, even with the missing bits. It's kind of an interesting little box and the lack of a completely unencumbered version of this manual really annoyed me. So I've posted a complete PDF version on my website for those interested. It's a little hefty at 18M. The link is: http://www.pumpkinbrook.com/files/TS65-FMQ1_Manual.pdf Ziggy On Jan 24, 2012, at 7:09 PM, J. Forster wrote: Ah, thanks. I have complained to Google about that scanning issue. IMO, it's a real problem. In a few years, Google may have the only extant copy of some doc. And it will be near useless w/o the fully scanned pages. This is the third time this has come up in the last few months. Either they should do it correctly, or not at all. YMMV, -John = On 01/24/2012 11:59 PM, J. Forster wrote: Google: FMQ-1 Test Set The -24P Parts Manual w/ exploded parts ID is in many places and has a drawing of the front panel. It has no schematics. The full manual will be -15 to -45 Depot Maintenance Manual, per standard Army nomenclature. The last digit will be 5, without a following P. Google has TM 11-6625-407-14 scanned. The fold-out schematic pages isn't folded out... but you get a pretty good idea how it works from the rest of the text. The schematics is there fractioned over the pages explaining it. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] US Army Frequency Standard
It appears to be a Bradley Lab #6A, Alan Bradley is now part of Rockwell Automation. John. O,n 25 Jan 2012, at 05:18, J. Forster wrote: Self generating, therefore selenium (or possibly silicon). There is no bias so it's not a photoconductor. I'm sure it's called out in the -24P manual. -John === Thank you everyone for your comments, and if I've got it right Brooke, if you paste this into your browser: http://www.flickr.com//photos/75ohm/sets/72157629019710615/show/ you should get a quick tour and a movie! This is indeed a tuning fork driving a synchronous motor that has a perforated disc on its shaft. The whole unit operates as it should and the quality of manufacture is superb, so I'm reluctant to pull it apart but I am curious as to the type of photocell it uses. It seems very small and the dates on many of the components suggest manufacture in the mid to late 1950s so what was around to do the job at that time? There is no cathode bias on the voltage amplifier that it feeds which suggests it s Photovoltaic rather than Photoconductive. Thanks again for your replies, John H. On 24 Jan 2012, at 22:34, Brooke Clarke wrote: Hi John: Is there a photo of the freq std on line? Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html John Howell wrote: Thanks Bob, If it helps the switched frequencies are: 0, 10, 20, 40, 60, 80, 100, 120, 140, 160, 180, 190Hz. John. On 24 Jan 2012, at 22:09, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Sounds about right for calibrating / verifying vibrating reed frequency readouts. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of John Howell Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 5:00 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] US Army Frequency Standard Hi All, I recently obtained a curious Low Frequency Standard dating from the late 1950s. Its output can be switched to a number of frequencies from 10 to 190Hz, derived from a tuning fork. It is marked Signal Corps and US Army with a type number TS-65D/FMQ-1. Does anyone have any information about this unit, in particular what it was used for and why the strange negative going pulse output and specific frequencies. Thanks in advance, John H. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] US Army Frequency Standard
Hi All, I recently obtained a curious Low Frequency Standard dating from the late 1950s. Its output can be switched to a number of frequencies from 10 to 190Hz, derived from a tuning fork. It is marked Signal Corps and US Army with a type number TS-65D/FMQ-1. Does anyone have any information about this unit, in particular what it was used for and why the strange negative going pulse output and specific frequencies. Thanks in advance, John H. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] US Army Frequency Standard
Thanks Bob, If it helps the switched frequencies are: 0, 10, 20, 40, 60, 80, 100, 120, 140, 160, 180, 190Hz. John. On 24 Jan 2012, at 22:09, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Sounds about right for calibrating / verifying vibrating reed frequency readouts. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of John Howell Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 5:00 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] US Army Frequency Standard Hi All, I recently obtained a curious Low Frequency Standard dating from the late 1950s. Its output can be switched to a number of frequencies from 10 to 190Hz, derived from a tuning fork. It is marked Signal Corps and US Army with a type number TS-65D/FMQ-1. Does anyone have any information about this unit, in particular what it was used for and why the strange negative going pulse output and specific frequencies. Thanks in advance, John H. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] US Army Frequency Standard
Thank you everyone for your comments, and if I've got it right Brooke, if you paste this into your browser: http://www.flickr.com//photos/75ohm/sets/72157629019710615/show/ you should get a quick tour and a movie! This is indeed a tuning fork driving a synchronous motor that has a perforated disc on its shaft. The whole unit operates as it should and the quality of manufacture is superb, so I'm reluctant to pull it apart but I am curious as to the type of photocell it uses. It seems very small and the dates on many of the components suggest manufacture in the mid to late 1950s so what was around to do the job at that time? There is no cathode bias on the voltage amplifier that it feeds which suggests it s Photovoltaic rather than Photoconductive. Thanks again for your replies, John H. On 24 Jan 2012, at 22:34, Brooke Clarke wrote: Hi John: Is there a photo of the freq std on line? Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html John Howell wrote: Thanks Bob, If it helps the switched frequencies are: 0, 10, 20, 40, 60, 80, 100, 120, 140, 160, 180, 190Hz. John. On 24 Jan 2012, at 22:09, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Sounds about right for calibrating / verifying vibrating reed frequency readouts. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of John Howell Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 5:00 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] US Army Frequency Standard Hi All, I recently obtained a curious Low Frequency Standard dating from the late 1950s. Its output can be switched to a number of frequencies from 10 to 190Hz, derived from a tuning fork. It is marked Signal Corps and US Army with a type number TS-65D/FMQ-1. Does anyone have any information about this unit, in particular what it was used for and why the strange negative going pulse output and specific frequencies. Thanks in advance, John H. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HBG keeps transmitting...
It's gone now (checked 10:35 Hrs GMT 01-01-2012) S'pose clocks that used the code will be discarded or the owners will discover how good or bad the built-in quartz osc. is. Happy New Year to all, John H. On 1 Jan 2012, at 00:23, Alan Melia wrote: Probably when the hung over teckies get back in to work in a state they can find the off switch :-)) Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: Azelio Boriani azelio.bori...@screen.it To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2012 12:16 AM Subject: [time-nuts] HBG keeps transmitting... The HBG has survived the 00:00 CET and the 00:00 UTC. I was fulfilling the task of recording the final transmission instant but now I don't know how to proceed. Unfortunately I have no audio time lapse recorder at hand and I have no more ideas about the time when they will shutdown.. Maybe I have to write an email to ask? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HBG keeps transmitting...
I know someone who has one, I'll try and get details. John H. On 1 Jan 2012, at 15:11, Attila Kinali wrote: On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 11:23:48 +0100 Marco IK1ODO ik1...@spin-it.com wrote: Never saw a clock controlled by HBG, only by DCF. Must ask some Swiss friend. I live in switzerland, but have never seen a HBG controlled clock either. Probably there was only professional equipment, but even that i've never seen. Attila Kinali -- Why does it take years to find the answers to the questions one should have asked long ago? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A?
Surely spinning it would superimpose a rate modulation at 0.0833 Hertz due to
the alternating earth's magnetic field? {:-)
Merry Christmas from Pinner, at one time home to Heath-Robinson the 'inventor'.
On 22 Dec 2011, at 21:19, Chris Albertson wrote:
On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Azelio Boriani
azelio.bori...@screen.it wrote:
Yes, why move magnets when it is easier to
Because it would be really cool to watch a robot move a magnet.
And just wait until someone is able to measure that you can nudge the
frequency by 10e-16 if you spin the entire device at 5 RPM
anti-clockwise.
For more idea long these line see this site
http://www.rubegoldberg.com/
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these
Agreed 340mA seems too high, mine takes 87mA. There has been much comment on [time_nuts] about the temperature of these units varying from 'let 'em get hot' to 'must heatsink'. In my experience items that require a heatsink have a milled flat surface to mount to a sink, not a thin case that would only touch in places. Furthermore I didn't think fiberglass circuit board was famous for its heat conducting properties. No sign of any heat transfer compound either. So do I conclude they need a bit of cooling? I agree with you Pete and would really like to know what the makers say about all this! Best wishes, John. On 20 Dec 2011, at 16:22, Peter Bell wrote: 340mA seems really high - all the ones I've seen take about 90mA - and I would strongly recommend putting in on a heatsink, or at least bolting it directly to the chassis. In my experience, they don't actually malfunction when operated without one, but the housing gets very hot (and, presumably, the insides get hotter still) - after 24h running sitting on a foam mouse mat open to the air, the case hit about 59c - I can't help thinking that isn't going to be good for the long-term health of the unit. Regards, Pete On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 12:03 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com wrote: Mine requires the 5 volt supply at 340 ma. Are there nay manufacturer's instructions about mounting, ventilating, or heat sinking these units? My current thinking is to mount it on standoffs on the back of the chassis that houses my Thunderbolt. Perhaps I should place it where it can warm up Princess. (Notice the magnet on top of the oscillator.) On 12/20/2011 07:13 AM, Roy Phillips wrote: -- From: Rex r...@sonic.net Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 1:10 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these FWIW. I just hapened on this power supply in an ad. You might find a fixed voltage one somewhere cheaper, but the price seemed ok, so here it is for consideration... http://www.mpja.com/email/12-13-11.asp?r=284759s=2 Still need the 5 V somehow, so not a complete solution for the 5680A. On 12/19/2011 3:06 PM, gandal...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 19/12/2011 22:27:22 GMT Standard Time, c...@omen.com writes: This thing requires plenty of current to get started. My Tek CPS250 1.2 amp output (A+B parallel) only gets 7.5 volts. Now to scrounge something a bit bigger. - The 15 volts to pin 1 starts off needing to supply around 1.7 Amps, eventually falling to somewhere between 700 and 800 mA. Pin 4 always draws around 85 to 90 mA from its 5 volt supply. regards Nigel GM8PZR Nigel I trust that you are aware that some models of the FE-5680A only require the 15 volt/1.7Amp. supply. In fact connecting a 5 volt supply to the units that are programmable can cause damage ! Roy ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Racal-Dana 1992 Startup -- GPIB!
Robert, Do you have any information as to where a 9421 stands in this regime, specs etc? It is the same size as the 9420 and has a doubler board attached, but I don't know what equipment it was used in. Regards, John H. On 16 Nov 2011, at 19:56, Robert Atkinson wrote: These counters used Racal's own 94xx series OCXO's. The 04A normally had a 9442, the 04E had the 9420. Easy way to tell which is which is the size. They are both 51mm (2) square with the 9442 being 51mm tall and the 9420 is 96mm (3.75) tall. The 9442 is also classed as fast warm-up, 6 minutes to 3x10^7. These OCXO's were also used in Racal's frequency standards such as the 9478. They are very good OCXO's. All of them are 5MHz. Unfortunatly Racal considered them propriatry and never released any circuits or service information. All my information comes from Racal manuals and the 1984/85 catalogue. Robert G8RPI. From: Larry McDavid lmcda...@lmceng.com To: Robert Atkinson robert8...@yahoo.co.uk; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2011, 18:25 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Racal-Dana 1992 Startup -- GPIB! There are other Racal timebase options as well. I have a Racal 1999 counter that originally had a 04C timebase option that was not ovened and had a single adjustment screw. I replaced it with a 04A ovened ocxo that has a single adjustment screw. I will shortly install a 04E ocxo as Robert describes below. There is also a 04B ocxo option with two adjustment screws (coarse and fine). All the specs are slightly different. My manuals do not show a 04T option. There is also a Rb oscillator option, 04R. I've never seen one of these. None of these is necessarily on frequency! You must have something like a GPSDO that outputs 10 MHz to set any of the timebase options accurately. Accuracy is relative, of course! I use a HP Z3801A GPSDO and a TAPR distribution amplifier to distribute the GPS-steered 10 MHz to numerous devices that accept an external timebase, such as the Racal counter. It's a very nice counter. Larry W6FUB On 11/16/2011 10:02 AM, Robert Atkinson wrote: Hi Chuck, You need to look at the option sticker on the back of the unit. The 04* is the oscillator option. 04T is a TCXO 3x10^7 per month temp1x10^6 0-40 deg C 04A Ovened oscillator 3x10^9 per Day temp3x10^9 0-45 deg 04E High stability ovened oscillator 5x10^10 per day temp7x10^9 0-50 deg C No 04* is basic crystal oscillator. If yours has a mechanical and electrical trim it will be a 04A or 04E. ... From: Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469Rc...@omen.com To: time-nutstime-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2011, 16:47 Subject: [time-nuts] Racal-Dana 1992 Startup -- GPIB! I found a use for the GPIB interface on my counter - record the frequency drift of its internal timebase during warm up. It looks like an oven warming up. I don't know exactly which timebase my 1992 has, but I did notice the 5 to 10 MHz doubler on the back of the oscillator, The back has separate coarse and fine frequency adjustments. Can someone identify which timebase is fitted to this counter? The link below has the story and plot. http://www.omen.com/ham/racal.html ... -- Best wishes, Larry McDavid W6FUB Anaheim, CA (20 miles southeast of Los Angeles, near Disneyland) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Racal-Dana 1992 Startup -- GPIB!
Thanks Alan, just what I wanted! J. On 16 Nov 2011, at 22:58, Alan Melia wrote: Hi John the attached is out of a 1987 catalogue. Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: John Howell j...@howell61.f9.co.uk To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Racal-Dana 1992 Startup -- GPIB! Robert, Do you have any information as to where a 9421 stands in this regime, specs etc? It is the same size as the 9420 and has a doubler board attached, but I don't know what equipment it was used in. Regards, John H. On 16 Nov 2011, at 19:56, Robert Atkinson wrote: These counters used Racal's own 94xx series OCXO's. The 04A normally had a 9442, the 04E had the 9420. Easy way to tell which is which is the size. They are both 51mm (2) square with the 9442 being 51mm tall and the 9420 is 96mm (3.75) tall. The 9442 is also classed as fast warm-up, 6 minutes to 3x10^7. These OCXO's were also used in Racal's frequency standards such as the 9478. They are very good OCXO's. All of them are 5MHz. Unfortunatly Racal considered them propriatry and never released any circuits or service information. All my information comes from Racal manuals and the 1984/85 catalogue. Robert G8RPI. From: Larry McDavid lmcda...@lmceng.com To: Robert Atkinson robert8...@yahoo.co.uk; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2011, 18:25 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Racal-Dana 1992 Startup -- GPIB! There are other Racal timebase options as well. I have a Racal 1999 counter that originally had a 04C timebase option that was not ovened and had a single adjustment screw. I replaced it with a 04A ovened ocxo that has a single adjustment screw. I will shortly install a 04E ocxo as Robert describes below. There is also a 04B ocxo option with two adjustment screws (coarse and fine). All the specs are slightly different. My manuals do not show a 04T option. There is also a Rb oscillator option, 04R. I've never seen one of these. None of these is necessarily on frequency! You must have something like a GPSDO that outputs 10 MHz to set any of the timebase options accurately. Accuracy is relative, of course! I use a HP Z3801A GPSDO and a TAPR distribution amplifier to distribute the GPS-steered 10 MHz to numerous devices that accept an external timebase, such as the Racal counter. It's a very nice counter. Larry W6FUB On 11/16/2011 10:02 AM, Robert Atkinson wrote: Hi Chuck, You need to look at the option sticker on the back of the unit. The 04* is the oscillator option. 04T is a TCXO 3x10^7 per month temp1x10^6 0-40 deg C 04A Ovened oscillator 3x10^9 per Day temp3x10^9 0-45 deg 04E High stability ovened oscillator 5x10^10 per day temp7x10^9 0-50 deg C No 04* is basic crystal oscillator. If yours has a mechanical and electrical trim it will be a 04A or 04E. ... From: Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469Rc...@omen.com To: time-nutstime-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2011, 16:47 Subject: [time-nuts] Racal-Dana 1992 Startup -- GPIB! I found a use for the GPIB interface on my counter - record the frequency drift of its internal timebase during warm up. It looks like an oven warming up. I don't know exactly which timebase my 1992 has, but I did notice the 5 to 10 MHz doubler on the back of the oscillator, The back has separate coarse and fine frequency adjustments. Can someone identify which timebase is fitted to this counter? The link below has the story and plot. http://www.omen.com/ham/racal.html ... -- Best wishes, Larry McDavid W6FUB Anaheim, CA (20 miles southeast of Los Angeles, near Disneyland) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. racalosc.pdf___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] NOVELTY CLOCK
Quartz movements and dials having hour hands that rotate once in 24 hours can be found, see http://www.seldecpublishing.co.uk/clocks/ John H. On 12 Nov 2011, at 12:08, Azelio Boriani wrote: Yes for 12-hour display but here in Europe we usually have 24-hour displays. Of course analog clocks are always 12-hour. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rapco 1804M - serial problems?
David, Given your results and the price, the londoncolour antenna is a 'must try'. Also the extra cable length will get the puck to a window which should also help. The 1804M has already shown how stable my old HP107BR quartz standard really is. Not being a software person I must now go and learn about RS232s and terminals, (:-) Thanks for your help, John. On 19 Oct 2011, at 17:15, David J Taylor wrote: David, I'm in a similar position to you regarding GPS aerials, may I ask where you obtained your 'better puck'? John H. John, I'm currently trying this unit from londoncolour: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=250687616146 and it produces a consistently higher total satellite strength reading, a consistently higher number of satellites with non-zero strength readings, the maximum number of reported fixes per minute has been consistent over the last 90 minutes, but the PDOP while more consistent is still at 4 or 5, rather than the 2 required for the unit to re-define its average position away from its original location in London! Cheers, David -- SatSignal software - quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rapco 1804M - serial problems?
David, I'm in a similar position to you regarding GPS aerials, may I ask where you obtained your 'better puck'? John H. On 17 Oct 2011, at 15:45, David J Taylor wrote: .. The box was supplied with a generic GPS puck antenna by the eBay seller, and it's not that sensitive so I've ordered a better puck antenna (for the moment, I don't want the complexity of an outdoor antenna) and when that arrives and I have a better GPS signal I'll visit the box again ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] the end of light bulbs as we know it was Re: Safe power-up. was (Solartron 7075 ...)
Your mention of bridges Chris reminds me that the British Post Office developed quartz oscillators in the early 1940s that used filament lamps for amplitude stabilisation in a bridge circuit. Stabilities of ±1 part in 10 to the 8th were achieved. John H. On 12 Oct 2011, at 06:00, Chris Albertson wrote: Another connection from Time Nuts to incandescent light bulbs is the early HP Wien bridge oscillators. They used the light bulb for amplitude stabilization. This light bulb stabilized oscillator is what put the HP company on the map. There was a time when these oscillators where the best available. I have one of these and it still produces a good distortion free signal for testing and measurement of audio gear. On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 6:06 PM, John Howell j...@howell61.f9.co.uk wrote: Sorry Tom, (again!), Just as significant is the radiation from compact fluorescent lamps, many radiate strongly in the 50-60KHz region from their SMPSs. This has been the reason for failure of several clocks I am aware of that are tuned to radiocode transmissions on 60KHz. John H. On 12 Oct 2011, at 01:28, Gerald Molenkamp wrote: Hi All, Sorry Tom, worth a mention. I replaced all of my down lights after my Kids wanted us to contribute to lowering our carbon footprint. On the positive side, moving to LEDs will provide savings around $107/year in electricity charges. Now to the negative part , noise floor from around 21MHz to well over 500MHz raised to a signal strength 5 to 6 across mid to upper HF / lower VHF to upper UHF with them switched on, otherwise my noise floor is Zero. Lower VHF to UHF SSB/FM low level signal work is now not possible when LEDs are on, mostly at night when we enjoy the hobby. The net effect of dirty LED lighting has long term issues with sensitive receivers. Regards Gerald VK3GJM There is one angle that was not covered, but which is relevant (at least to those of us using any LF or HF time receivers). Over the weekend I bought my first LED bulb. It was on sale and I wanted to see how it worked. On the package it gave a warning that it could interfere with HF communications in the 0.45 - 30 MHz range and to not install it near any maritime emergency communications equipment. Peter On 10/11/2011 6:56 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote: This thread is wonderful, nostalgic, technical, futuristic, and appropriate for someone's list. But not time-nuts. Please stop it now. Don't reply. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] UK standard frequencies - where?
You should be able to receive France's Allouis transmitter on 162KHz. It is a 2MW transmitter with a carrier accuracy of 2 parts in 10 to the 12th. I believe it carries a timecode. John H. On 12 Oct 2011, at 09:32, David J Taylor wrote: Folks, I'm happy with my timekeeping, but I would like to get my frequency calibrations rather better now. I'm in the UK, and wondering what standard frequency sources may still be running. I know about 60 KHz, and that's a little LF for my needs. I can't find any routine measurements of its accuracy, either. 198 KHz from Droitwich isn't receivable here, and may be off the air within a year or two if reports are to be believed: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/oct/09/bbc-radio4-long-wave-goodbye I remember in the 1960's listening to MSF on 2.5 MHz, but I only get clag on 2.5, 5.0 and 10 MHz now. Is that interference from the computers here or are those transmissions now off the air. Our analogue TV has gone, so no steady ~600 MHz carriers to check, and no colour sub-carrier (which used to be quite precise). Leaves me with /assuming/ that the local BBC FM Radio stations are accurate, or perhaps the local air traffic transmitters. Any thoughts on what I /should/ be able to receive in the UK? Any low-cost boards which might give a 10MHz GPS-locked signal? Thanks, David -- SatSignal software - quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] the end of light bulbs as we know it was Re: Safe power-up. was (Solartron 7075 ...)
Incandescent lamps also have the property of a cold resistance very much lower than that at design voltage. Used in series with drills and bathroom fans this gives a useful current surge at switch-on. And the [time-nuts] connection? I use a torch bulb in series with the drive to a dry cell powered slave clock. High initial current pulse dropping to a lower holding current over the half second activation period. Needs careful selection of lamp voltage and current. Regards, John Howell. On 11 Oct 2011, at 23:23, Neville Michie wrote: Incandescent light bulbs are very useful. They are a high dissipation resistor with a lot of uses. I have one in series with a bathroom ceiling fan, just kept plugging smaller watt values in until the fan was quiet enough but still fully functional. I have one in series with a micro drill press, runs with full revs but stops when the drill jams. It will be a pity to see them turn to unobtainium. cheers, Neville Michie On 12/10/2011, at 9:05 AM, Mark Sims wrote: I now have my house converted over completely to LED bulbs... over 300 of them (mostly PAR16/PAR20/PAR30/PAR38 bulbs)! At retail the cost would have been over $15,000 dollars!!! Totally insane... I have a large closet totally dedicated to light bulbs.When incandecents/halogens are no longer made I'll sell all the ones that I have removed and become stinkin' rich. Then I found an Ebay seller that was selling used bulbs for dirt cheap (like $5 for a PAR20 and $10 for a PAR30... actually less than the halogens cost). They are apparently store/utility company returns (Bubba buys a replacement bulb and can't figure out how to install it so returns it to the store). I was replacing a couple incandecent bulbs every week (many times they killed a $35 dimmer when they blew). Only one of the LED bulbs has failed in the last year. I did have to build 32 custom fixtures to replace the 900 lumen/50 watt/12V halogen MR-16 bulbs. The brightest MR-16 LED bulb available is around 300 lumens. If you use PAR20 bulbs in your house check out: http://www.ebay.com/sch/new_life_electronics/m.html?_nkw=led_trkparms=65%253A15%257C66%253A1%257C39%253A1rt=nc_trksid=p3911.c0.m14.l1513_pgn=1 These are some of the best PAR20 bulbs out there and the lots of 10 usually go for less than $60. The exact same bulbs sell for $40 each a Lowes. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] the end of light bulbs as we know it was Re: Safe power-up. was (Solartron 7075 ...)
Sorry Tom, (again!), Just as significant is the radiation from compact fluorescent lamps, many radiate strongly in the 50-60KHz region from their SMPSs. This has been the reason for failure of several clocks I am aware of that are tuned to radiocode transmissions on 60KHz. John H. On 12 Oct 2011, at 01:28, Gerald Molenkamp wrote: Hi All, Sorry Tom, worth a mention. I replaced all of my down lights after my Kids wanted us to contribute to lowering our carbon footprint. On the positive side, moving to LEDs will provide savings around $107/year in electricity charges. Now to the negative part , noise floor from around 21MHz to well over 500MHz raised to a signal strength 5 to 6 across mid to upper HF / lower VHF to upper UHF with them switched on, otherwise my noise floor is Zero. Lower VHF to UHF SSB/FM low level signal work is now not possible when LEDs are on, mostly at night when we enjoy the hobby. The net effect of dirty LED lighting has long term issues with sensitive receivers. Regards Gerald VK3GJM There is one angle that was not covered, but which is relevant (at least to those of us using any LF or HF time receivers). Over the weekend I bought my first LED bulb. It was on sale and I wanted to see how it worked. On the package it gave a warning that it could interfere with HF communications in the 0.45 - 30 MHz range and to not install it near any maritime emergency communications equipment. Peter On 10/11/2011 6:56 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote: This thread is wonderful, nostalgic, technical, futuristic, and appropriate for someone's list. But not time-nuts. Please stop it now. Don't reply. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
