Re: [time-nuts] Chat Room?
Hi Bert, Couldn't agree more with you. On the other hand, and which is even worse, questions from not-so-hardcore-time-nuts are simply ignored on a random basis. I'm leaving the group. If you ever come to or need something from Spain, let me know. Regards, Roberto EB4EQA -Original Message- From: ewkeh...@aol.com Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:15 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Chat Room? Time nuts has turned in to a chat room to people that have diarrhea of their fingers. The result is that many of us converse off list and do not contribute to meaningful dialog. Are there not rules and if yes, should they not be respected and adhered to? Bert Kehren ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Chinese Scopes
Please, please, do not tell stories like that regarding the radar to be used to land on Mars. It makes me feel so sad, and my life so uninteresting... That was a joke, I want more of that !! By the way, I was trying to keeping it secret but as Robert just explained, the Agilent 546XX are s nice to use. You won't see that on the specs (the waveforms/sec display maybe) but it is a joy to use. I discarded other TEK, RIGOL and LECROY and I am only keeping this one. It simply does not get in the way of your work in any way. I hope prices do not skyrocket because of this two posts... Regards, Roberto EB4EQA -Original Message- From: Jim Lux Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 4:27 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Chinese Scopes On 4/17/12 6:56 AM, shali...@gmail.com wrote: I agree that memory depth is an under appreciated parameter, but even 2,500 points like what's available on the cheap Tek scopes is quite useful. On the other hand, I had a few LeCroy with 50k deep memories and there are cases where that is very useful too. I can't imagine real life use cases when I would need multiple MB. It would be nice to have but seldom used. oddly enough, I had a case where very deep memory was useful last fall. It was an issue with logic that was switching from one clock source to another where the clocks were orders of magnitude different frequency (10Hz and 300kHz or something like that), and it was the relative timing of the edges that was important, so you needed a bunch of cycles of the low frequency clock (i.e. record length of half a second or so), but enough samples to see the timing of the 300kHz at the same time. Another deep memory use was when I used a fast 20GHz sample rate Tek scope a few years back (2007) debugging a radar target simulator (for the landing radar that's going to be used to land on Mars in August) and deep buffers were nice there, because we essentially needed to capture multiple pulses that were 4 ns to several microseconds long. The requirement was that the delta phase (and time) of successive pulses be within a certain value (the radar used what's known as two pulse doppler) following a pre-programmed simulated descent profile. We also wanted the pulse timing after the trigger to be accurate to, as I recall, 0.5 or 1 ns. The PRF is pretty high, so you don't have time to unload the memory in between pulses. So we did something like 500 pulses, captured 16,384 samples at a time at 20GS/sec to make a dataset of 16 million samples. You learn a lot about what's hidden in the specs on inexpensive signal generators like the Agilent E4421B when you start comparing phase for 1600 pulses 1 microsecond apart. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 5370B Manual - Searchable?
If I remember correctly, the OA DAC control errata was corrected in my PDF file (by me, that is). If there are other know errata, I can correct them in the PDF and also add a section for made changes. Roberto EB4EQA -Original Message- From: John Miles Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 2:16 AM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5370B Manual - Searchable? It looks great, if we're talking about the zipped 150+ MB file. OCR never works 100%, but the originally rendered text seems to be intact everywhere, unlike cases where the scan program tries to replace it. Unfortunately some of the most confusing errors were part of the manual as originally printed. The errata file in the same directory mentions the correct DIP switch setting for the OA DAC control adjustment, but the test limit voltage range is also different from one counter to the next, and from one edition of the manual to the next (while still being consistently wrong in my experience). -- john -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts- boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Roberto Barrios Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 1:44 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5370B Manual - Searchable? It was me who created the PDF. I did not scan the pages, I took individual files for individual pages from KO4BB site. Hardest work was manual stitching of the schematics. Also created bookmarks for all the sections manually. Automatic OCR was done by Adobe Acrobat, I did not review the result, it may be far from perfect, but still useful. Regards,Roberto EB4EQA From: jmi...@pop.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2012 13:34:39 -0700 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5370B Manual - Searchable? -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts- boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Dave M Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 12:51 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5370B Manual - Searchable? From: paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com Send it to didiers site KO4bb. Thats a good place to share it from. As noted about 8 messages ago, it's already there. Not sure who submitted it or when, but it's a nice, clean scan of the S/N 2904 edition, and pre-OCR'ed. -- john ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi- bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi- bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 5370B Manual - Searchable?
It was me who created the PDF. I did not scan the pages, I took individual files for individual pages from KO4BB site. Hardest work was manual stitching of the schematics. Also created bookmarks for all the sections manually. Automatic OCR was done by Adobe Acrobat, I did not review the result, it may be far from perfect, but still useful. Regards,Roberto EB4EQA From: jmi...@pop.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2012 13:34:39 -0700 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5370B Manual - Searchable? -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts- boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Dave M Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 12:51 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5370B Manual - Searchable? From: paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com Send it to didiers site KO4bb. Thats a good place to share it from. As noted about 8 messages ago, it's already there. Not sure who submitted it or when, but it's a nice, clean scan of the S/N 2904 edition, and pre-OCR'ed. -- john ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89A Repair
Hi Bob, I wonder what the other oscillators that others are receiving look like in the SA. Replacing all the capacitors would take a serious effort, not sure if it would be justified. Can I ask how can you know all that by looking at the spectrum plot? Thank you, Roberto EB4EQA -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: sábado, 25 de febrero de 2012 23:55 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89A Repair Hi The spectrum you show in the middle is the correct one. It shows the 10 MHz output and the sub-harmonics related to the 5 MHz crystal oscillator. The other two are a bit broken. One appears to have a stage oscillating. The other is more interesting. It has a stage oscillating that is injection locked to the 5 MHz crystal oscillator. I suspect more than one capacitor went bad in these OCXO's. Somebody may have sold Morion a bad reel of bypass caps. Bob On Feb 25, 2012, at 4:01 PM, Roberto Barrios rbarri...@msn.com wrote: Hi all, I spent this evening repairing a MV89A that had a weak output, output cap was bad: http://www.rbarrios.com/projects/MV89A I also found while comparing with other two MV89A's that they show different output spectra, as can be seen. Test conditions were identical but one appears much cleaner than the others. What are the reasons for this? Regards, Roberto EB4EQA ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89A Repair
Hi Bert, I've googled for that and didn't find a related paper :-) Regards, Roberto EB4EQA -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of ewkeh...@aol.com Sent: lunes, 27 de febrero de 2012 11:44 To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89A Repair Roberto It is called tens of years of experience Bert Kehren In a message dated 2/27/2012 5:16:28 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, rbarri...@msn.com writes: Hi Bob, I wonder what the other oscillators that others are receiving look like in the SA. Replacing all the capacitors would take a serious effort, not sure if it would be justified. Can I ask how can you know all that by looking at the spectrum plot? Thank you, Roberto EB4EQA -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: sábado, 25 de febrero de 2012 23:55 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89A Repair Hi The spectrum you show in the middle is the correct one. It shows the 10 MHz output and the sub-harmonics related to the 5 MHz crystal oscillator. The other two are a bit broken. One appears to have a stage oscillating. The other is more interesting. It has a stage oscillating that is injection locked to the 5 MHz crystal oscillator. I suspect more than one capacitor went bad in these OCXO's. Somebody may have sold Morion a bad reel of bypass caps. Bob On Feb 25, 2012, at 4:01 PM, Roberto Barrios rbarri...@msn.com wrote: Hi all, I spent this evening repairing a MV89A that had a weak output, output cap was bad: http://www.rbarrios.com/projects/MV89A I also found while comparing with other two MV89A's that they show different output spectra, as can be seen. Test conditions were identical but one appears much cleaner than the others. What are the reasons for this? Regards, Roberto EB4EQA ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Morion MV89A Repair
Hi all, I spent this evening repairing a MV89A that had a weak output, output cap was bad: http://www.rbarrios.com/projects/MV89A I also found while comparing with other two MV89A's that they show different output spectra, as can be seen. Test conditions were identical but one appears much cleaner than the others. What are the reasons for this? Regards, Roberto EB4EQA ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Why a 10MHz sinewave output?
50 ohms is a compromise between maximum power transfer and minimum attenuation, as mentioned in page 9 of Network Analyzer Basics (http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5965-7917E.pdf) Regards, Roberto EB4EQA -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Attila Kinali Sent: martes, 07 de febrero de 2012 21:59 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why a 10MHz sinewave output? On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 12:19:11 -0800 Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: Related question: Assuming I'm using 10MHz sine wave. What's the best physical cable to use? Is there any good reason to use 50 ohm cable? What about 75 ohm? I looked at a schematic of my counter and it looks like the 10MHz signal hits some high impedance chip inside.RG6 seems like the way to go. It's double shieled and lots of cable TV parts could be used. There is no particular advantage in one or the other, at least not for most applications. It's tradition that measurement and (most) RF gear uses 50R, while TV and radio uses 75R. (there was once a reason for this, but i don't know it). When it comes to low frequency stuff (ie everything below a couple 100MHz) i would stick with 50R cable and connectors. Cheap cables aren't too bad for lab stuff. Although for time-nutty needs you might want to choose the ones with better shielding. When you go to higher frequencies (especially above 1GHz) i'd rather use 75R sat cables + F connectors. These are available in good qualities at low price. What you should not do is mix different impedances, as this will result in energy reflected back to the source, which might or might not damage it. But you will definitly have increased jitter due to the reflections. Attila Kinali -- Why does it take years to find the answers to the questions one should have asked long ago? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Building a GPSDO trouble using Jupiter-T
Long time ago I built a Jupiter-T companion board that included the loop filter, divider and phase detector for the James Miller GPSDO. It also includes a PIC that monitors the NMEA strings and displays different status data via LEDs, and outputs data via RS232. http://www.rbarrios.com/projects/10KGPSDO/ I used an ISOTEMP OCXO and it worked well.I also tried to implement a lock detection mechanism, first based on timing the phase detector and sencondly monitoring the swings of the EFC. I was not very happy with any of those solutions and finally gave up. Details are in the code. Text is in spanish but you really don't need to read it, it is very, very basic for you time-nuts. If anyone has a suggestion for a better lock detection solution applicable here, I'd love to know about it. Best regards, Roberto EB4EQA -Mensaje original- From: Tom Van Baak Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 11:56 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Building a GPSDO trouble using Jupiter-T This thread got started when someone asked if an analog PLL would work for building a GSPDO. For that you do need timing pulses much faster then 1PPS. But the analog PLL are not the way to go for best accuracy. Remarkably, the simplest and still one of the best GPSDO I've tested was the 10 kHz Jupiter and analog PLL-based standard by James Miller. It performed superbly. It's the 4th GPSDO at: http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/gpsdo/ True, there exist some better GPSDO, and you need digital if you want a hold-over feature, but I wouldn't discourage anyone from trying the analog PLL method. The sheer simplicity might more than make up for a few less ns. Miller's page is at: http://www.jrmiller.demon.co.uk/projects/ministd/frqstd.htm http://www.jrmiller.demon.co.uk/projects/ministd/frqstd0.htm /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] ANFSCD - Synchronizing time in home video recorders
Hi Tom, I'm interested in that divider. Actually, insterested in knowing how it works, not in the .HEX file. Breseham's algorith works but has inherent jitter and I've found no other solutions for situations like that. I'd live to know how it is done. Thank you, Roberto EB4EQA http://www.rbarrios.com -Mensaje original- From: Tom Van Baak Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 10:34 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] ANFSCD - Synchronizing time in home video recorders I think I've seen comments about making 32 KHz from 10 MHz in a PIC or AVR. tvb has this web page, but I don't see a 32 KHz option: http://www.leapsecond.com/pic/picdiv.htm Hal, Yes, I have a PIC divider that takes 5 or 10 MHz input and outputs a 32.768 kHz square wave with minimal jitter and no long-term phase offset. Contact me off-line if interested. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS SDR (was: FE-.5680A trimming resolution)
Can I ask where does the Trimble Resolution-T fit between this other receivers ? I've used it and I do like it. I thought it was relatively modern and capable compared to the Oncore. Isn't it comparable to the uBlox for example? Regards, Roberto EB4EQA From: albertson.ch...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 10:38:25 -0800 To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS SDR (was: FE-.5680A trimming resolution) On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 9:43 AM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi My guess is that the reality of parts sourcing will quickly get us right back to the group buy of LEA-6T topic. For timing I don't see why an LEA-6T is better then a Oncore or t-bolt. You can buy an Oncore UT for about $18 on ebay and new (with factory warranty) MT types for about $60. I just got a t-bolt from a seller in California for $110. For car navagation the LEA-6 looks much better because t has inputs for odometer pulses and a turn rate gyro and the LEA-6 can use this data for position and rate determination in tunnels and urban canyons. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Fluke 6060B
Sturdy construction, typical old Fluke. The -B goes up to 1GHZ. I have a -A/AN (only up to 520Mhz but with deviation meter) and I'm happy with it. Just two comments, it won't tune finer than 10Hz steps and the 10Mhz reference input expects TTL levels. Roberto Barrios EB4EQA Message: 3 Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 15:41:13 -0400 From: paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Fluke 6060B Message-ID: CAD2JfAicxwuHVk=nXzyu4RAba8L8d97BHaySvLyYPr=xw0y...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I have 2 of them. One I purchased many years for a lot of $ and one recently as scrap. They both work very fine. The original has never given me a problem and the scrap is working now. Needed some trouble shooting. So if the $ are low jump on it. Its a good HF to 512 Mhz gen. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 1:52 PM, Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote: Does anyone have any experience or comments on a Fluke 6060B? I was offered one and it looks like something that I might find useful on the bench. Joe Gray W5JG ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HQ 5370B manual available
Hello, I've modified those two pages, could you check if they reflect the intended changes? http://www.rbarrios.com/manuals/5370B_page5-8_corrected.pdf http://www.rbarrios.com/manuals/5370B_page8-113_corrected.pdf If we are 100% sure they are now correct, I will replace the old ones with them. Regards, Roberto EB4EQA Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 08:46:42 -0800 From: Dan Rae dan...@verizon.net Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HQ 5370B manual available To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 4d63e872.4000...@verizon.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 2/22/2011 7:42 AM, J.D. Bakker wrote: At 06:23 -0800 22-02-2011, Dan Rae wrote: Be aware that there are some odd errors in this manual that I pointed out when I was working on mine a while ago, but it may have been on the -hp- list... That would be in http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/hp_agilent_equipment/message/17686 and onward, right? JDB. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HQ 5370B manual available
Hello, I’ve just finished the 5370B manual. With high quality scans, navigable Table of Contents, text search and single-page schematics. It is ready for download here: http://www.rbarrios.com/manuals http://www.rbarrios.com/manuals I’ve also uploaded it to KO4BB’s site, I assume he will make it available soon. I’d like to thank Poul-Henning Kam for his collaboration with some missing/damaged pages. I also have to say that I am both amazed by the work already done and very interested in the 5370’s ROM/CPU expansion. Being unable to contribute directly, I’d like to believe that the single-page stitched schematics help somehow to this endeavour. Enjoy, Roberto EB4EQA ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP 5370B manual - missing page
Hello, I’m re-building the User Service manual for the 53070B counter, cleaning the pages and stitching all the schematics so they are easier to read. I’ve found several different manuals on the internet but all of them are missing the page fifth part of page 8-99, which folds out on page 297 of the PDF file. Does anyone have that elusive page? Regards, Roberto EB4EQA ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Modulation Analyzer to measure Phase Noise ?
Hi, How good can be a Modulation Analyzer (such as the RS FAM, which I happen to have one) for measuring phase noise? Since it measures phase modulation, it should be able to somehow measure phase noise, right?. Assuming it is using a low noise reference, how useful is it for roughly comparing phase noise of relatively clean 10Mhz oscillators? What are the best settings, regarding detector type and filters? I uploaded the FAM specs here, just in case someone wants to check them: http://www.rbarrios.com/public/FAM_specs.pdf Thank you, Roberto EB4EQA ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 3586A HQ Manuals READY
Hi, The manuals are ready. I have nothing against DjVu other than that PDF exists, but that's a pretty good enough reason I believe. The Operating manual has been revised so discard the old copy if you got it. The two volumes of the Service Manual are in a single PDF file. Yes it is big, but it allows for the cross references to work so the bookmarks can jump from one volume to another. Being the manuals so large, it is nice to jump back and forth so easily. Stitching the schematics was hard because no automated process I tried turned out successful, but they look great. It is amazing the job that the HP people had to do to write (and draw) such a manual so many years ago with no computers. My hosting is cheap but also limited, be patient if the downloads take long, I don't know how many of us will try to grab the manuals at the same time: http://www.rbarrios.com/manuals I hope Didier makes them available also on his site soon so we can balance loads ;-) Enjoy! Roberto EB4EQA ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 3586A HQ PDF Manual available
Hi Pete, Sal, Luckily I've been able to invest a few unexpected evenings on the manual and all the long boring work is already done. I'm now reviewing it thoroughly as I'd like to avoid having to fix silly mistakes after people have already downloaded it (something which is plainly unavoidable, I'm just trying to minimize the embarrasment...) It is a matter of hours, you'll get it for the weekend :-) Thanks for the interest ! Roberto EB4EQA -- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 10:16:10 -0800 From: Pete Lancashire p...@petelancashire.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 3586A HQ PDF Manual available To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: aanlktimjytbf=yrvcqd2tlpabn3set=t7o=e1o=xr...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 2nd that ! -pete On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 2:28 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Just want to say a very nice job that you have done Roberto. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 9:26 AM, SAL CORNACCHIA salc...@rogers.com wrote: Hi Roberto, I would be interested? Thank You ?Best regards, Sal C. Cornacchia Electronic RF Microwave Engineer (Ret.) From: Roberto Barrios rbarri...@msn.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Mon, November 29, 2010 5:18:07 PM Subject: [time-nuts] 3586A HQ PDF Manual available Hi all, I've been lucky enough to get a 3586A in good shape, with no manuals. I found the operating manual at Agilent's site (poor quality) and the (good quality) scans at KO4BB, made by someone unknown to me. I went thru the trouble of correcting rotation, borders and levels of each of those pages one by one and I've built a (big) PDF file with them. Still not searchable but I've bookmarked every entry of the Table of Contents so you can go to the section you need effortlessly. You can get your copy at http://www.rbarrios.com/manuals After a few evenings working on it, I'm now considering (not) doing the same with the two volumes of the service manual. Is there any interest? Regards, Roberto EB4EQA ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] 3586A HQ PDF Manual available
Hi all, I've been lucky enough to get a 3586A in good shape, with no manuals. I found the operating manual at Agilent's site (poor quality) and the (good quality) scans at KO4BB, made by someone unknown to me. I went thru the trouble of correcting rotation, borders and levels of each of those pages one by one and I've built a (big) PDF file with them. Still not searchable but I've bookmarked every entry of the Table of Contents so you can go to the section you need effortlessly. You can get your copy at http://www.rbarrios.com/manuals After a few evenings working on it, I'm now considering (not) doing the same with the two volumes of the service manual. Is there any interest? Regards, Roberto EB4EQA ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] How to detect PLL lock
Hello, Thank you Ignacio and all of you, specially those that replied :-) The convergence idea is the one that I like most, simply because it required no additional hardware. I've plotted EFC against time (seconds) in the attached file. The bumps after the PLL was locked are caused by GPS a few seconds after I deliberately disconnected the antenna. I like the idea of calculating a convergence value and studying the frequency of zero crossings to each side of it. Although with some effort I guess I will be able to implement it, I'am not familiar with convergence algorithms. Is there somewhere a reasonably (non-)advanced paper about it you can point me to? The other ideas are still very interesting and since I am doing this just as a learning exercise, I will eventually experiment all of them. Again, thank you. What a great list this is. Roberto EB4EQA Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 14:06:20 + From: Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Fw: How to detect PLL lock To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 33479.1289138...@critter.freebsd.dk If you have a microcontroller, isn't it simpler to just look for convergence in the development of the error term ? You're probably not in any big hurry for exact convergence anyway, so overdampen the PLL and simply check that the redidual decreases towards zero. Once you have locked the PLL, the fastest way to detect loss of lock, in particular if you use too high time-constant, is the too low frequency of zero crossings in the residual. Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. On Nov 6, 2010, at 5:48 PM, Roberto Barrios wrote: Hello, I?ve built a James Miller style GPSD with a Rockwell Jupiter, 74AC86 as phase detector and Isotemp OCXO. Division from 10Mhz to 10kHz is done with a 12F675 PIC that also outputs other frequencies and I also included a 16F88 that gives information as OCXO oven info and various GPS status indicators got from the NMEA string. Everything is built on a PCB similar to the Jupiter GPS. I built the PCB by plotting with a resistive pen directly on the copper with a plotter. It works reasonably well as compared to a Trimble thunderbolt, as per my limited knowledge. Some pictures of the result: http://www.rbarrios.com/public/_MG_6553.jpg http://www.rbarrios.com/public/_MG_6553.jpg http://www.rbarrios.com/public/_MG_6553.jpg http://www.rbarrios.com/public/_MG_6553.jpg http://www.rbarrios.com/public/_MG_6553.jpg I would also like to include PLL lock indication with a LED, but I?m struggling to find a reliable indicator. I?ve tried using the OCXO?s control voltage, which stabilizes when the PLL is locked as an indicator, monitoring it with an ADC of the PIC. Resolution is only around 14mV because of the voltage divider before the ADC input. I can?t make it react as desired to unlocks, I tried some formulas but it is always either too strict or too loose. I?ve also timed the duty cycle of the 74AC68phase detector output with a timer, but I guess the granurality (10Mhz/4) is too coarse to precisely detect when it?s constant. For either reason, the ?PLL LOCK? led is lit when it shouldn?t or viceversa. Does anyone have a practical, ?easily? implementable solution for the lock indicator in this vaguely-nut GPSDO, that this newbie could work out ? Ideally it would be implemented in software, but I understand this modest hardware may have severe limitations. Thank you, Roberto EB4EQA ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. attachment: EFC Graphs.png___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] How to detect PLL lock
Hello, I’ve built a James Miller style GPSD with a Rockwell Jupiter, 74AC86 as phase detector and Isotemp OCXO. Division from 10Mhz to 10kHz is done with a 12F675 PIC that also outputs other frequencies and I also included a 16F88 that gives information as OCXO oven info and various GPS status indicators got from the NMEA string. Everything is built on a PCB similar to the Jupiter GPS. I built the PCB by plotting with a resistive pen directly on the copper with a plotter. It works reasonably well as compared to a Trimble thunderbolt, as per my limited knowledge. Some pictures of the result: http://www.rbarrios.com/public/_MG_6553.jpg http://www.rbarrios.com/public/_MG_6553.jpg http://www.rbarrios.com/public/_MG_6553.jpg http://www.rbarrios.com/public/_MG_6553.jpg http://www.rbarrios.com/public/_MG_6553.jpg I would also like to include PLL lock indication with a LED, but I’m struggling to find a reliable indicator. I’ve tried using the OCXO’s control voltage, which stabilizes when the PLL is locked as an indicator, monitoring it with an ADC of the PIC. Resolution is only around 14mV because of the voltage divider before the ADC input. I can’t make it react as desired to unlocks, I tried some formulas but it is always either too strict or too loose. I’ve also timed the duty cycle of the 74AC68phase detector output with a timer, but I guess the granurality (10Mhz/4) is too coarse to precisely detect when it’s constant. For either reason, the “PLL LOCK” led is lit when it shouldn’t or viceversa. Does anyone have a practical, “easily” implementable solution for the lock indicator in this vaguely-nut GPSDO, that this newbie could work out ? Ideally it would be implemented in software, but I understand this modest hardware may have severe limitations. Thank you, Roberto EB4EQA ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Fw: How to detect PLL lock
Sorry, the links were obviously wrong: http://www.rbarrios.com/public/_MG_6553.jpg http://www.rbarrios.com/public/_MG_6554.jpg http://www.rbarrios.com/public/_MG_6556.jpg http://www.rbarrios.com/public/_MG_6565.jpg http://www.rbarrios.com/public/_MG_6567.jpg Regards, Roberto EB4EQA From: Roberto Barrios Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 10:48 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: How to detect PLL lock Hello, I’ve built a James Miller style GPSD with a Rockwell Jupiter, 74AC86 as phase detector and Isotemp OCXO. Division from 10Mhz to 10kHz is done with a 12F675 PIC that also outputs other frequencies and I also included a 16F88 that gives information as OCXO oven info and various GPS status indicators got from the NMEA string. Everything is built on a PCB similar to the Jupiter GPS. I built the PCB by plotting with a resistive pen directly on the copper with a plotter. It works reasonably well as compared to a Trimble thunderbolt, as per my limited knowledge. Some pictures of the result: http://www.rbarrios.com/public/_MG_6553.jpg http://www.rbarrios.com/public/_MG_6553.jpg http://www.rbarrios.com/public/_MG_6553.jpg http://www.rbarrios.com/public/_MG_6553.jpg http://www.rbarrios.com/public/_MG_6553.jpg I would also like to include PLL lock indication with a LED, but I’m struggling to find a reliable indicator. I’ve tried using the OCXO’s control voltage, which stabilizes when the PLL is locked as an indicator, monitoring it with an ADC of the PIC. Resolution is only around 14mV because of the voltage divider before the ADC input. I can’t make it react as desired to unlocks, I tried some formulas but it is always either too strict or too loose. I’ve also timed the duty cycle of the 74AC68phase detector output with a timer, but I guess the granurality (10Mhz/4) is too coarse to precisely detect when it’s constant. For either reason, the “PLL LOCK” led is lit when it shouldn’t or viceversa. Does anyone have a practical, “easily” implementable solution for the lock indicator in this vaguely-nut GPSDO, that this newbie could work out ? Ideally it would be implemented in software, but I understand this modest hardware may have severe limitations. Thank you, Roberto EB4EQA ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] RE: Thunderbolt power supply hookup
Hi Mark, You will find that and lots of other very interesting info at tvb's excellent website: http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/tbolt/power.htm The pictures do not show the bare PCB but you can guess how it is placed inside the housing from the pictures. Regards, Roberto EB4EQA Message: 8 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 22:22:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Spencer mspencer12...@yahoo.ca Subject: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt power supply hookup To: time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 132472.72817...@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Would any one be able to point me towards a web site that shows the power supply pinout for the bare thunderbolt board (without the power supply board.) From looking at the TPAR site I believe I have the pinout sorted out but a clear diagram would be very helpfull. All the best Mark Spencer ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Tektronix AM503X current probes
Hello and Happy New Year, I've always wanted to get a current probe and amp like those just because of the magic Mark is talking about. But, specially compared to almost any other TM50X plugin, their prices are difficult to justify. Why is it that they are so expensive?? ( how much did they cost new ) I've never bought magic before :-)... Regards 73's Roberto EB4EQA __ Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 02:39:27 + From: Mark Sims hol...@hotmail.com Subject: [time-nuts] Tektronix TM500 Series Help To: time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: blu125-w256e1608bbbf9ce168958cce...@phx.gbl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Frankly, screw the idea of ordering $30 transistors or paying big shipping charges from Canada. Just go to Ebay, find a cheap TM50X power module, bingo! you're in business! Either use the module as-is or salvage the transistors from it and repair the TM501. TM501 modules are rather hard to find and tend to be expensive. There are several TM506's for $25 Buy-it-Now (plus $33 shipping). A little patience and shopping should net a TM502,503, or 504 for under $30 shipped... I would still go the way of a TO-220 with the leads swapped with wires. A little sleeving and they would be just as reliable as the proper transistor, no matter what physical abuse they are subjected to. My main current probe setup is a TM504+SC503 analog storage scope+2 AM503B amps+A6302 probes (also have A6303's). The A6302 current probe actually runs on pure magic... there's just no other explanation why it can do what it does. Measure DC-50Mhz at milliamps to 20+ amps without making electrical contact... yeah, right. Next, you'll try to blame it on some silly hall effect... but we know magic when we see it... _ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] OT: From data to equations
Hi, I've come across this tool and thought some of you may put it to good use: Eureqa http://ccsl.mae.cornell.edu/eureqa ... Eureqa is a software tool for detecting equations and hidden mathematical relationships in your data. Its primary goal is to identify the simplest mathematical formulas which could describe the underlying mechanisms that produced the data. Eureqa is free to download and use ... Regards, Roberto EB4EQA _ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] LPRO101 Lamp Exciter Frequency
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 23:05:30 +0100 (CET) From: iov...@inwind.it iov...@inwind.it Subject: Re: [time-nuts] LPRO101 Lamp Exciter Frequency To: time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 25191930.94401257285930323.javamail.defaultu...@defaulthost Content-Type: text/plain;charset=UTF-8 rbarri...@msn.com wrote: Date: 26/10/2009 7.54 Yes, everything I've seen points me to think that the oscillator runs at 140Mhz and not 70. ... Please, come back to us when you measure the exciter frequency on your LPRO, thank you. Roberto, I've done the check. Please excuse me for the delay due to the fact that I have my stuff spread across two locations 250 Km apart. Last week-end I fetched a working Rb and brought it here where I have spectrum analyzers. No 70 MHz signal at all, you were right. What I can see is 60 MHz, its 120 MHz harmonic and then the about 145 MHz from the lamp ignition oscillator. Probably PE1FBO was misled by me, and I, on my hand, had accepted the occasional 70 MHz reading (made with an hand held counter !) being biased by the FRS specs. I apologize. 73, Antonio I8IOV Hi Antonio, Thank you for taking the time to confirm this. I purchased a second (working) LPRO and it also confirmed that exciter frequency is actually around 150Mhz, as you just saw. Clapp oscillator equations showed that frequency should be much higher that 70Mhz but you never know...It's nice we've been able to clarify this point... it took quite a bit of effort (and risk) to modify the circuit to resonate exactly at 70Mhz, just to find that the lamp would not ignite :-) I've made a few other interesting discoveries that would make for a nice LPRO Repair Guide revision. I'll share the details when I've got everything properly tied. Thank you, Roberto EB4EQA _ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] LPRO101 Lamp Exciter Frequency
* previous mails in this thread have been cropped * Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 22:33:59 +0100 From: iova...@inwind\.it iov...@inwind.it Subject: Re: [time-nuts] LPRO101 Lamp Exciter Frequency To: time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: ks3akn$221a366b9ea1a7373efb295c9a27e...@libero.it Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Roberto Barrios wrote: - 10Mhz out swings between 10.000191 and 9.999875, taking 40s to go up and 60s to go down in freq. Roberto, please tell me, does the 10 MHz output swing continuously between the lower and upper limits, or does it stop at the lower or upper limit after one or two swings? Everything seems to be fine, it would be great to confirm if other LPROs work at 70Mhz or actually at 140, like mine. Sorry that I can't check at present, I'm away. Actually I've read both (about) 70 and 140 MHz at least on two units using a one turn link and depending on its position, and this is not enough to say that the oscillator works at 70 MHz. I could re- check maybe next week-end and will let you know if the matter is not solved in the meantime. Antonio I8IOV Hi Antonio, The 10Mhz out does not stop, never. It swings around 10.000.000Mhz continuously, +-150Hz, which is expected. It takes 40s to go up and 60s to go down, which is quite close to what the repair guide says (but with switched times...). This brings a question, since the swing times on my units are exactly opposite as appear in the guide, could it be that the 20Mhz oscillator is responding to control voltage to the wrong way?. That would explain the switched ramp times and also why it does not lock... but I wonder how on earth such a failure could occur. Yes, everything I've seen points me to think that the oscillator runs at 140Mhz and not 70. It would be quite easy to conclude that the oscillator runs at 70 if we pick up the 2nd harmonic and the look at the FRS manual, which says the exciter oscillator is adjustable from 70-100Mhz. I also wonder which is actually the optimum frequency for the exciter, since (in my LPRO) the lamp ignites at all frequencies along the whole range of the tuning capacitor values, but lamp voltage peaks at maximum capacitance. If maximum photocell output was the objetive of tuning the exciter frequency, it should peak somewhere between the tuning limits of the oscillator, not at an extreme. It would be nice to clarify this. Please, come back to us when you measure the exciter frequency on your LPRO, thank you. Regards, Roberto Eb4EQA _ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] LPRO101 Lamp Exciter Frequency
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 14:42:08 +1300 From: Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz Subject: Re: [time-nuts] LPRO101 Lamp Exciter Frequency To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 4ae3acf0.3080...@xtra.co.nz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Roberto Barrios wrote: Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 10:24:38 +1300 From: Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz Subject: Re: [time-nuts] LPRO101 Lamp Exciter Frequency To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Message-ID: 4ae37096.5030...@xtra.co.nz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Roberto Barrios wrote: Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 09:35:03 +1300 From: Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz Subject: Re: [time-nuts] LPRO101 Lamp Exciter Frequency To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 4ae21377.7070...@xtra.co.nz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Roberto Barrios wrote: Hi all, I've got an LPRO101 that refuses to lock and you sure will be of great help. These devices are quite cheap but I'm trying to learn in the repair process. I've followed PE1FBO's repair guide and everything noted there seems ok. I could not find a single suspect component. These are some notes I've taken on the unit after a 20 minutes warmup: - Power input current during warmup is 1.2A and 0.4A after it. - 10Mhz out swings between 10.000191 and 9.999875, taking 40s to go up and 60s to go down in freq. - Lamp voltage is a steady 6.7V. - The lamp glows a few seconds after powering the unit. Placing a pickup look over the PCB, the analyzer shows peaks all over the place up to 2.5Ghz (it's limit), so the thing is alive. There is one unexpected thing I found... The frequency of the RF power going into the lamp is 157.3Mhz, very stable. From the repair guide, it should be 70Mhz. I checked it with everything on hand (scope, counter, spec. analyzer) and there is no doubt about it. A clean sine of about 16V peak to peak, at 157.3Mhz can be found at the output (source) of the BF160 MOSFET. Could this unexpectedly high exciter frequency cause the inability to lock or should I look somewhere else? The deviation from the expected 70Mhz seems too big to me, but should I tweak the oscillator tuning capacitor (C901) to try to lower the frequency? The oscillator is a Clapp oscillator and the (0.6-4.5pF) series tuning cap has a large influence on the frequency. Unless the coil has shorted turns or another component has gone open circuit its seems likely that the oscillator has been mistuned. Thank you all, Roberto EB4EQA Bruce Hi Bruce, Thank you for taking the time to look at this and answer my message. Thank you for pointing to the oscillator type, thanks to that, I've made some calculations. I've measured the inductace of the coil and it turns out to be 460nH. Given the capacitor values, doing the math, the oscillator is tunable from about 129Mhz to 310Mhz by adjusting capacitor C901. I've found that there is about 157pF where the 82pF capacitor is, but that has very little effect on tuning range. I've tried adjusting C901 and the lower I can get is 125Mhz, as expected. Could the correct frequency be in that range, and not 70Mhz If you confirm it should be 70Mhz, I'll add some capacitance to 901 to get the oscillator down again to 70Mhz. About 90pF should do. Could this actually be the problem in the unit (the lamp glows...) Thank you best regards, Roberto, EB4EQA Roberto Your lamp exciter differs from the one attached. Unless a fixed capacitor is faulty you shouldn't need to change it. In principle it doesn't matter too much what the lamp excitation frequency is as long as the coupling coil is suitably proportioned. If the oscillator operates at a frequency other than the design value the coupling to the lamp may be reduced. It would appear that the design frequency differs from that in the repair manual (unless the coil is faulty). The fact that the 10MHz oscillator frequency ramps up and down suggests that there is something wrong with the frequency lock circuit. Try looking at the photocell signal processing chain. Is the microwave signal actually being modulated? Bruce -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: RblampExciter3.png Type: image/png Size: 22923 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/attachments/20091025/982d5b41/attachment.png Roberto Hi Bruce, Antonio, Bruce, you are right, there should be no need to modify the original design. The attached schematic is the one I have printed and it faithfully represents the actual circuit in the LPRO I have. C14 is actually 82pF (I took it out to measure it), but capacitance from E3 to ground is 157pF. The added capacitance must come from
Re: [time-nuts] LPRO101 Lamp Exciter Frequency
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 08:36:49 +1300 From: Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz Subject: Re: [time-nuts] LPRO101 Lamp Exciter Frequency To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 4ae4a8d1.5070...@xtra.co.nz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Roberto Barrios wrote: Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 14:42:08 +1300 From: Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz Subject: Re: [time-nuts] LPRO101 Lamp Exciter Frequency To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 4ae3acf0.3080...@xtra.co.nz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Roberto Barrios wrote: Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 10:24:38 +1300 From: Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz Subject: Re: [time-nuts] LPRO101 Lamp Exciter Frequency To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Message-ID: 4ae37096.5030...@xtra.co.nz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Roberto Barrios wrote: Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 09:35:03 +1300 From: Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz Subject: Re: [time-nuts] LPRO101 Lamp Exciter Frequency To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 4ae21377.7070...@xtra.co.nz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Roberto Barrios wrote: Hi all, I've got an LPRO101 that refuses to lock and you sure will be of great help. These devices are quite cheap but I'm trying to learn in the repair process. I've followed PE1FBO's repair guide and everything noted there seems ok. I could not find a single suspect component. These are some notes I've taken on the unit after a 20 minutes warmup: - Power input current during warmup is 1.2A and 0.4A after it. - 10Mhz out swings between 10.000191 and 9.999875, taking 40s to go up and 60s to go down in freq. - Lamp voltage is a steady 6.7V. - The lamp glows a few seconds after powering the unit. Placing a pickup look over the PCB, the analyzer shows peaks all over the place up to 2.5Ghz (it's limit), so the thing is alive. There is one unexpected thing I found... The frequency of the RF power going into the lamp is 157.3Mhz, very stable. From the repair guide, it should be 70Mhz. I checked it with everything on hand (scope, counter, spec. analyzer) and there is no doubt about it. A clean sine of about 16V peak to peak, at 157.3Mhz can be found at the output (source) of the BF160 MOSFET. Could this unexpectedly high exciter frequency cause the inability to lock or should I look somewhere else? The deviation from the expected 70Mhz seems too big to me, but should I tweak the oscillator tuning capacitor (C901) to try to lower the frequency? The oscillator is a Clapp oscillator and the (0.6-4.5pF) series tuning cap has a large influence on the frequency. Unless the coil has shorted turns or another component has gone open circuit its seems likely that the oscillator has been mistuned. Thank you all, Roberto EB4EQA Bruce Hi Bruce, Thank you for taking the time to look at this and answer my message. Thank you for pointing to the oscillator type, thanks to that, I've made some calculations. I've measured the inductace of the coil and it turns out to be 460nH. Given the capacitor values, doing the math, the oscillator is tunable from about 129Mhz to 310Mhz by adjusting capacitor C901. I've found that there is about 157pF where the 82pF capacitor is, but that has very little effect on tuning range. I've tried adjusting C901 and the lower I can get is 125Mhz, as expected. Could the correct frequency be in that range, and not 70Mhz If you confirm it should be 70Mhz, I'll add some capacitance to 901 to get the oscillator down again to 70Mhz. About 90pF should do. Could this actually be the problem in the unit (the lamp glows...) Thank you best regards, Roberto, EB4EQA Roberto Your lamp exciter differs from the one attached. Unless a fixed capacitor is faulty you shouldn't need to change it. In principle it doesn't matter too much what the lamp excitation frequency is as long as the coupling coil is suitably proportioned. If the oscillator operates at a frequency other than the design value the coupling to the lamp may be reduced. It would appear that the design frequency differs from that in the repair manual (unless the coil is faulty). The fact that the 10MHz oscillator frequency ramps up and down suggests that there is something wrong with the frequency lock circuit. Try looking at the photocell signal processing chain. Is the microwave signal actually being modulated? Bruce -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: RblampExciter3.png Type
Re: [time-nuts] LPRO101 Lamp Exciter Frequency
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 09:35:03 +1300 From: Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz Subject: Re: [time-nuts] LPRO101 Lamp Exciter Frequency To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 4ae21377.7070...@xtra.co.nz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Roberto Barrios wrote: Hi all, I've got an LPRO101 that refuses to lock and you sure will be of great help. These devices are quite cheap but I'm trying to learn in the repair process. I've followed PE1FBO's repair guide and everything noted there seems ok. I could not find a single suspect component. These are some notes I've taken on the unit after a 20 minutes warmup: - Power input current during warmup is 1.2A and 0.4A after it. - 10Mhz out swings between 10.000191 and 9.999875, taking 40s to go up and 60s to go down in freq. - Lamp voltage is a steady 6.7V. - The lamp glows a few seconds after powering the unit. Placing a pickup look over the PCB, the analyzer shows peaks all over the place up to 2.5Ghz (it's limit), so the thing is alive. There is one unexpected thing I found... The frequency of the RF power going into the lamp is 157.3Mhz, very stable. From the repair guide, it should be 70Mhz. I checked it with everything on hand (scope, counter, spec. analyzer) and there is no doubt about it. A clean sine of about 16V peak to peak, at 157.3Mhz can be found at the output (source) of the BF160 MOSFET. Could this unexpectedly high exciter frequency cause the inability to lock or should I look somewhere else? The deviation from the expected 70Mhz seems too big to me, but should I tweak the oscillator tuning capacitor (C901) to try to lower the frequency? The oscillator is a Clapp oscillator and the (0.6-4.5pF) series tuning cap has a large influence on the frequency. Unless the coil has shorted turns or another component has gone open circuit its seems likely that the oscillator has been mistuned. Thank you all, Roberto EB4EQA Bruce Hi Bruce, Thank you for taking the time to look at this and answer my message. Thank you for pointing to the oscillator type, thanks to that, I've made some calculations. I've measured the inductace of the coil and it turns out to be 460nH. Given the capacitor values, doing the math, the oscillator is tunable from about 129Mhz to 310Mhz by adjusting capacitor C901. I've found that there is about 157pF where the 82pF capacitor is, but that has very little effect on tuning range. I've tried adjusting C901 and the lower I can get is 125Mhz, as expected. Could the correct frequency be in that range, and not 70Mhz If you confirm it should be 70Mhz, I'll add some capacitance to 901 to get the oscillator down again to 70Mhz. About 90pF should do. Could this actually be the problem in the unit (the lamp glows...) Thank you best regards, Roberto, EB4EQA _ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] LPRO101 Lamp Exciter Frequency
Hi all, I've got an LPRO101 that refuses to lock and you sure will be of great help. These devices are quite cheap but I'm trying to learn in the repair process. I've followed PE1FBO's repair guide and everything noted there seems ok. I could not find a single suspect component. These are some notes I've taken on the unit after a 20 minutes warmup: - Power input current during warmup is 1.2A and 0.4A after it. - 10Mhz out swings between 10.000191 and 9.999875, taking 40s to go up and 60s to go down in freq. - Lamp voltage is a steady 6.7V. - The lamp glows a few seconds after powering the unit. Placing a pickup look over the PCB, the analyzer shows peaks all over the place up to 2.5Ghz (it's limit), so the thing is alive. There is one unexpected thing I found... The frequency of the RF power going into the lamp is 157.3Mhz, very stable. From the repair guide, it should be 70Mhz. I checked it with everything on hand (scope, counter, spec. analyzer) and there is no doubt about it. A clean sine of about 16V peak to peak, at 157.3Mhz can be found at the output (source) of the BF160 MOSFET. Could this unexpectedly high exciter frequency cause the inability to lock or should I look somewhere else? The deviation from the expected 70Mhz seems too big to me, but should I tweak the oscillator tuning capacitor (C901) to try to lower the frequency? Thank you all, Roberto EB4EQA _ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Newbie looking for GPSDO kit or Project sites
If you want to get your hands dirty, I'd suggest you to try VE2ZAZ's design. I've built a few GPSDOs and this one is the one I liked most. http://ve2zaz.net/GPS_Std/GPS_Std.htm Roberto Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 13:30:10 +0100 From: David C. Partridge david.partri...@dsl.pipex.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Newbie looking for GPSDO kit or Project sites To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 7f8db3beeb144011940a58bdf82f3...@apollo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Do you actually want to build your own from scratch, or just buy something like a Trimble Thunderbolt and add a PSU and housing? If the latter then look for seller fluke.l (that's a lower case letter L) on eBay if you should want one right now, or if you aren't in a hurry wait for the next group buy of these here. If the former, how sophisticated do you want to get? These beesties can go from real simple: http://www.jrmiller.demon.co.uk/projects/ministd/frqstd0.htm to really moderately complex such as: http://www.rt66.com/~shera/index_fs.htm I'm sure there have probably been more recent designs too that have gotten even smarter ... Dave -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Ray Hudson Sent: 13 October 2009 12:53 To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Newbie looking for GPSDO kit or Project sites Hi there; being a new Time nut I'm looking for kit/project web sites info on building a GPSDO PLL. Any info welcomed. Ta Ray. _ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] 5313XA Option 03 Clone on eBay
Hi all, I've just found eBay item nr. 37029876, which lists a Option 03 clone for the popular 53131A 53132A counters. I remember someone was also working on this, from a thread a few months ago. My current counter is a 1Ghz 5385A (any comments on it?) so I don't needed, but I thought you might be interested on buying it or at least commenting. I've got nothing to do with the seller. Regards, Roberto Barrios, EB4EQA _ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] rockwell gps chipset datasheet?
Hi Frank, The Rockwell 11577-11 is found in most TU-DXXX Rockwell-Jupiter GPS receivers. I've never seen anything like a RF switch on them, but you could have a custom or exotic one :). What they do have most times is a model number etched or printed on the PCB. Doesn't yours have one? You can find a few Rockwell GPS datasheets here, where you can compare yours with the pictures: http://www.gpskit.nl/downloads-nl.htm Regards, Roberto EB4EQA Message: 1 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 12:33:36 +0100 From: francesco messineo francesco.messi...@gmail.com Subject: [time-nuts] rockwell gps chipset datasheet? To: time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: d9f2bc20902170333x5d7b0a72gd935a54cf0a66...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hello all, I have given a GPS receiver board from an old anti-theft system, it's free for me to play with (and more are available if I ever figure out if they can be useful). The board has a rockwell chipset for the GPS part and two antenna connectors (selectable with an rf switch). Both antennas have independent power supply, I think it's +5V, I've not yet powered it up, I'm waiting to figure out more things about it. Rockwell chips are R6732-13 (the one where RF signal goes) and the bigger 11577-11. Now I haven't been able to dig any pinout at least for the 11577-1. Anyone? Thanks in advance Frank IZ8DWF ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz Band-Pass Filter Needed (Roberto Barrios)
The GPSDO I want to use has an output rich in harmonics. In some cases that is good, but Murphy rules and in the application I have today, it is not good. I need a 10 MHz Band-Pass Filter, Bandwidth is not critical, something small with SMA connectors would be ideal, but I can live with BNC. Anyone have such a beast or know where I can get one ? I checked Mini-Circuits and choked on the price !! Thanks, Dick, W1KSZ Hi Dick, There are plans for a simple nine section low pass filter here: http://jwmeng.com/AppNote/AppNote003.html You can also use (I did) a filter from an old 10mbit ethernet network card, as suggested here: http://www.uhf-satcom.com/misc/10MHz_dist/ I joined this list just yesterday, so hello to everyone. I live in Madrid and I'm interested in frequency measurement for HAM purposes. Not understanding most of the things you guys discuss here, I thought I would never have the opportunity to give my 2 cents... I´m currently working on a simple GPSDO that (luckily) some of you may find interesting. I'll send you details in a few days so I can get your opinions and (hopefully) it inspires/helps someone. Bests Regards 73's Roberto Barrios, EB4EQA Madrid, Spain _ See how Windows® connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119463819/direct/01/ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
