[time-nuts] Spirent STR4500 GPS simulator
This is my first post after lurking for quite a while reading & trying to get to grips with the technology. I just purchased a Spirent STR4500 GPS simulator along with a pile of other kit. Unfortunately the CD was missing (no great surprise) & Spirent are not interested in selling me a replacement disk. So, can anyone help me with software for this or should I accept it is a door stop & get rid? My plan was to use this to get consistent signals to test a few GPSDOs I have acquired. Any advice gratefully received. Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] A man with two clocks...
Is your code posted anywhere? I've been meaning to do roughly the same. -- Phil On Oct 3, 2013 12:07 PM, Collins, Graham coll...@navcanada.ca wrote: David, Your raspberry-pi NTP clock is very cool. I have put together something along the same line but is in reality just a network connected NTP disciplined clock display using an Arduino and a typical 16x2 LCD housed in a small project box. The Arduino has a network shield and get's it power from a USB port although it could be powered by a battery or wall wart type of supply. When it starts, the device attempts to get an IP address using DHCP. Once that is sorted it attempts to sync to my local GPS disciplined NTP server, then sets and displays it's time. It resyncs every some value between 15 and 30 minutes with the NTP server. If ever my local NTP server can't be found, it will attempt to sync to an outside NTP server on the internet. It keeps pretty good time, not time nuts level but is always within a few tenths of a second which is suitable for it's intended purpose. Basic time keeping of the Arduino uses it's 16MHz crystal clock and there is some provision for adjusting in code which I have done to improve it's time keeping. I am toying with the idea of adding a 1 PPS input but just haven't gotten round to it yet. All the bits and pieces of the code was copied from existing projects and libraries it being just a matter of finding the appropriate bits and pieces, putting them together and making changes in a few places to improve it's time keeping. It was a fun project to put together and has proven so useful in my lab that I will probably put together a couple more. Cheers, Graham ve3gtc === Max, I see similar things here. I've always put it down to relatively poor circuitry in the radio clock, which is why I built my NTP-controlled wall clock! http://www.satsignal.eu/raspberry-pi/DigitalClock.html One radio clock is below. That particular MSF clock is actually not too bad - visibly it's in sync with the NTP clock (which itself is within a few microseconds of GPS time). 73, David GM8ARV -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk . ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] A man with two clocks...
Sorry, I was looking for Graham's Arduino code; clearly my comprehension and clarity limited on the phone. On Oct 3, 2013 3:53 PM, Sarah White kuze...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.satsignal.eu/raspberry-pi/DigitalClock.html third paragraph: I've provided the source and binary files in this Zip archive, so you can either run the program as-is, or modify it to suit your own preferences. On 10/3/2013 6:43 PM, Phil Genera wrote: Is your code posted anywhere? I've been meaning to do roughly the same. -- Phil On Oct 3, 2013 12:07 PM, Collins, Graham coll...@navcanada.ca wrote: David, Your raspberry-pi NTP clock is very cool. I have put together something along the same line but is in reality just a network connected NTP disciplined clock display using an Arduino and a typical 16x2 LCD housed in a small project box. The Arduino has a network shield and get's it power from a USB port although it could be powered by a battery or wall wart type of supply. When it starts, the device attempts to get an IP address using DHCP. Once that is sorted it attempts to sync to my local GPS disciplined NTP server, then sets and displays it's time. It resyncs every some value between 15 and 30 minutes with the NTP server. If ever my local NTP server can't be found, it will attempt to sync to an outside NTP server on the internet. It keeps pretty good time, not time nuts level but is always within a few tenths of a second which is suitable for it's intended purpose. Basic time keeping of the Arduino uses it's 16MHz crystal clock and there is some provision for adjusting in code which I have done to improve it's time keeping. I am toying with the idea of adding a 1 PPS input but just haven't gotten round to it yet. All the bits and pieces of the code was copied from existing projects and libraries it being just a matter of finding the appropriate bits and pieces, putting them together and making changes in a few places to improve it's time keeping. It was a fun project to put together and has proven so useful in my lab that I will probably put together a couple more. Cheers, Graham ve3gtc === Max, I see similar things here. I've always put it down to relatively poor circuitry in the radio clock, which is why I built my NTP-controlled wall clock! http://www.satsignal.eu/raspberry-pi/DigitalClock.html One radio clock is below. That particular MSF clock is actually not too bad - visibly it's in sync with the NTP clock (which itself is within a few microseconds of GPS time). 73, David GM8ARV -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk . ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thermal insulation choice?
My goal is just to slow down any external thermal transients so the oven loop has time to react gracefully. Are you sure it is not thermal mass that needs to be increased and not just insulation? Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Vectron oscillator
The nearest data I can find is Vectron C4550 datasheet which is not very helpful. Does anyone have the spec. for the 63.8976 ocxo? thanks ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Lightsquared
Has anyone read this? The high-precision user is going to be thrown under the bus because we are the most difficult to accommodate (technically) and don’t have a high profile nor are perceived as significant enough to accommodate. http://www.gpsworld.com/survey/lightsquared-high-precision-receivers- are-collateral-damage-11802? utm_source=GPSutm_medium=emailutm_campaign=GNSS- Design_06_29_2011utm_content=lightsquared-high-precision-receivers- are-collateral-damage-11802 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Determining Time-Nut infection severity
The boss in this household has added What he forgot was that the patient will have no concept of time in the real world and frequently be late for any event including his own funeral! Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Thermal time constant
Looking at the specific heat of metals: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/specific-heat-metals-d_152.html Wouldn't Beryllium be better instead of aluminium? I could foresee a few problems though eg machining holes at home, never mind where to get a block from. Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Thermal time constant
The suggestion of beryllium was somewhat tongue-in-cheek ie not to be taken seriously, I did mention there would be a few problems, death being somewhat a terminal one. I agree with Bruce that specific heat*density is what is really required (I'd forgotten how light beryllium is. I don't seem to have much laying around to be familiar with it) As an aside, cuts from copper swarf can take a long time to heal. Sorry if I've lowered the tone of a good list. Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] nubie querie
Even defining when the sand timer is done is not a real simple thing. Waiting for that very last particle to drop may not be the best approach. Bob You could measure of the weight of the hourglass. Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 10544A with dodgy output?
Didn't some of the 5345 or 5328 manuals have schematics for the 10544. I have no idea if it's in the on-line manuals but I recall seeing the timebases in some. Phil - Original Message - From: Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 4:39 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 10544A with dodgy output? Nick The 10544A had at least 2 variants. I have the originals but the various datasheets are available on Didiers site. The earlier versions had a somewhat higher phase noise spec, as can be seen from the datasheets with different dates. There was a significant change to the circuit to achieve the lower phase noise. I don't have any details but I believe the changes were mainly to the oscillator and the method of extracting the output signal from the oscillator. I suspect that using 2N3904's rather than a CA3045 may lower the close in phase noise. But this would depend on if the CA3045 were used in the oscillator. Do you have the serial number of your 10544? The circuit could be radically different as the CA3045 includes a differential pair (the emitters of the pair are tied together). From the image it appears that at least one of the transistors of the differential pair is used in the circuit. Is the board shown actually the oscillator board or just the buffer board? Is your OCXO a 10554 or is it a 10544A? Bruce Nick Foster wrote: Bruce, The 10544 I have doesn't correspond to the 10544 schematic I found on leapsecond.com. Here's a photo of the AGC board inside mine: http://www.nerdnetworks.org/~bistromath/photos/misc/10544.JPG It's an RCA CA3045 array instead of the 3094's used in the schematic I saw. Looks like the best thing to do is pull it out and test it, and replace if necessary. I imagine that despite the transistor change the schematic is mostly the same. Do you happen to know for sure? Thanks, Nick Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 09:35:03 +1300 From: bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 10544A with dodgy output? The output of the diode detector is compared with the dc base voltage of the oscillator transistor adjusting the oscillator transitor current whenever the detector output deviates from Oscillator transistor base voltage - 2*Vbe. Bruce Nick Foster wrote: Thanks for the quick reply, John. From: jmfra...@cox.net Okay, 12V on the oscillator (pin 3) and 20V on the oven (pin 14). How much on the oven controller, pin 8? +12V. The oscillator uses the same supply as the filter, with the addition of a 10mH inductor + decoupling caps. Are pins 2, 4, 5, 9, and 15 grounded? Pin 6 (EFC) should be grounded for initial testing. Yes and yes. Upon looking further, something jumped out at me: the output is 2.2V RMS into 1000 ohms instead of the 1V RMS spec'ed in the datasheet. So I suppose the problem might be in the AGC circuitry, instead of the output emitter follower. It doesn't look as though the AGC in this oscillator contains a trimpot, like the 10811 does. I'm using the schematic at http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/10544/10544-3.gif, but I don't have a good idea of how that AGC works. --n From: jmfra...@cox.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:06:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 10544A with dodgy output? Okay, 12V on the oscillator (pin 3) and 20V on the oven (pin 14). How much on the oven controller, pin 8? Are pins 2, 4, 5, 9, and 15 grounded? Pin 6 (EFC) should be grounded for initial testing. John WA4WDL -- From: Nick Fosterbistro...@hotmail.com Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 2:53 PM To:time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP 10544A with dodgy output? Hi all, I've just built a GPS-disciplined oscillator built around a 10544A, somewhat in the style of the Brooks Shera unit, just to use around the shack. Problem is, now that it's wired up, I notice the output is heavily distorted. It's clipped on the negative side of the waveform, like an emitter follower without enough headroom. The more I load the oscillator output, the heavier the clipping. When I load the oscillator output with 1000 ohms, spec for this unit, almost 30% of the waveform is clipped on the negative side. If I don't load it at all and just put a probe on the output, it looks OK, but still some flattening of the bottom half of the waveform. I've got it wired up according to the datasheet, with +12V on the oscillator and +20V on the heater. The grounds for the oscillator/amplifier, oven controller, heater, and output are all tied together. I know these are old units, and I'm wondering if this is a problem (for instance in the output emitter follower amp) that others know about, before I tear into it looking for a solution. Thanks for your time, Nick
Re: [time-nuts] Alternate frequency sources : DVB-T and ISDN?
Speaking of alternate sources: Has any time-nut considered using the ISDN telephone network [2]? I think ISDN is finally dead here in Sweden. I can check if my ISDN connection is out for good. However, I wonder if the modern replacement to ISDN, such as ADSL is actually synchronised. It too uses OFDM/COFDM transmission and provides pilot-tones. Chris Should you have a catastrophic failure of the gps system and Loran is dead and buried, the only true source for time/frequency will be from the respective government sites. In the US it would be WWVB, WWV, NTS (internet), and acts (Telephone). I think most of you are forgetting that the bulk of the alternate sources being discussed derive their time/frequency guidance from gps. Cell towers, tv stations, tv networks, and the like will be left to their local timebases until an alternate correction scheme is developed and applied. The major tv networks had cesium standards, and I would think they still do but most others will be left to drift until they can be upgraded to an alternate guidance system. Another thought, if that catastrophic failure should take out the gps satellites, chances are it could take out the tv satellites too. Then all that's left is copper, fiber, radio, and microwave sites. If you need a reliable backup, perhaps it's time to dust off the old wwvb receivers and integrate them with these cheap rubidium standards. Perhaps now they will start bringing more than 50 bucks on epay! Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The Demise of LORAN (was Re: Referenceoscillatoraccuracy)
Didier Juges wrote: Enough for what? To bug the heck out of a citizen suddenly unable to find his way to the movie theater? Weapon systems and aircraft navigation are unlikely to be affected by such a simple device on the ground, even if deployed in large quantity. Most of the stuff that really needs GPS has decent antennas that look up, not down. They are affected, it is well covered, but the difference is the distance from the jammer until affected. It's a fairly well-understood problem and the difference between civilian and military receivers lies in signals, keying for access, bootstrapping and testing and counter-measures such as IMU. Cheers, Magnus Possibly the two largest threats are being overlooked in this discussion. The US, Russia, and now China has numerous, possibly in the hundreds of clandestine truck sized satellites. Allot thought to weigh in at 8 to 10 thousand pounds and some such as launched by the space shuttle to weigh in at 50,000 pounds up there now. Are they for communications, super-duper eyeballs, overgrown pea-shooters/laser guns, jammers, another positioning technology, or all of the above? Perhaps the ability to take out the various gps and other satellite systems exists now with the push of a button. Should systems go down under those circumstances, finding the nearest Starbucks using gps may be the least of our worries. Second and perhaps the real threat is a series of unprecedented solar storms or other unknown space based threats. That could conceivably render most of the satellites useless. I would think that ground based backup of all satellite systems would be mandatory. Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rubidium standard
- Original Message - From: David Smith w...@msn.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:31 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Rubidium standard I'm new to the list. Having said that, I ran across a webpage from a chap in Australia or maybe it was New Zealand. In any event he claims that the Rb lamp can be brought back to life. He says that he has rejuvenated over 30 units with bad lamps and they work great after his process. I will try and dig up the webpage if anyone is interested. Dave / W6TE - Original Message - From: Hal Murraymailto:hmur...@megapathdsl.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementmailto:time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 11:15 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Rubidium standard I was told by a Technical Support Engineer from Symmetricom Global Services that The typical life span is ~10 years for these Rubidium Time Bases. This is in response to my request for information on a Ball/Efratom PTB-100. Is this a typical life span of a rubidium standard? It's lower than what I would expect. The target market is the Telco and Cell Phone industry. They expect (or at least used to) long lifetimes. Maybe life span means how long they run it, planning to replace it with newer gear long before it actually wears out. I would have expected more like 20 years of useful life. That's running 24x7 in a reasonable environment. That's also with hacker reliability, aka it's not a disaster if it dies. So if you get one that was dumped by a Telco after 10 years, it's not crazy to run it 24x7 and expect many more years. (Just as long as you don't go crazy if it doesn't last that long. I can buy a lot of surplus stuff for the price of new gear as long as I'm willing to tolerate the time gaps and effort of replacing it when it dies.) The LPRO-101 blurb says: Amb.Temp: 20 °C 25 °C 30 °C 40 °C 50 °C 60 °C MTBF (hrs) 381k 351k 320k 253k 189k 134k A year is 8760 hours (ignoring leap years). Call that 10K. So they expect 25 years at 40C and 32 years at 30C. That's calculated MTBF. YMMV. Do some standards last longer than others? I'm sure some are better than others. I don't have any data. What are the symptoms of a failing rubidium bulb? Externally? It stops working. The error signal (maybe a LED too) will go on, or rather the locked signal (open collector?) will go off. The frequency stability will fall off a cliff. He says that he has rejuvenated over 30 units with bad lamps and they work great after his process. Is this what you were referring to? Near the end he explains how to rejuvenate lamps. http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/attachments/20081103/c205b683/attachment.pdf ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna and lightning and power
- Original Message - From: Bill Hawkins b...@iaxs.net To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 3:11 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna and lightning and power Group, I understand the need for an equipotential plate at the building entrance, with a good ground connection. I also understand the need for a single point ground and, if possible, a metal ground plane under the equipment that is also returned to a single point. So far, this has been applied to the cables from antennas. What about the power company ground? These wires also enter the equipment, but they are not connected to the common ground. Even if they were, the pole transformer wouldn't handle the voltage rise from the usual poor earth ground at the equipotential plate. A nearby strike can cause a high electric field in the dirt. One example is the well pipe. Another is dead cows standing with their feet apart (as they must). Or dead golfers. The EMP problem is not affected by grounding at all. In fact, a good ground at the building just strengthens the EMP and puts it closer to the building. At least, that's how I understand it. Bill Hawkins Mountaintops are unique in some respects, with Kevins terminology I would guess he is in the electrical business. Grounds for RF, Lightning, and electrical have little in common other than name. What is a good electrical ground may conflict with a good lightning or RF ground. A mountain I am thinking of is primarily rock where holes were blasted in solid rock for the tower legs. For grounding, tons of copper sheets/plate was buried below what dirt is in the area. At considerable expense, they did manage to get about 25 Ohms above ground. When a dark cloud is on the horizon, the power lines are switched off and they go on Cat diesel generators and stay on them as long as the threat of a storm exists. Should they take a hit and fail to switch off the power companies lines, it will drop the power lines coming up the mountain. The building is steel reinforced concrete and in essence a faraday cage. Tower, building, and contents are all the same potential, like the bird on the power line. No damage results BUT it can be one hell of a show with St. Elmo's fire and ball lightning. It's harmless, but a newcomer to the building in a storm may be found on top of the card table in the fetal position with the ball lightning rolling around. The lightning charge itself may travel a little further along the ground before it dissipates, but as long as you are in the building (faraday cage) and not standing in the area outside, you and all the equipment are ok. Here is a super interesting short video of men inspecting live hi-voltage power lines. Just like that bird on the wire. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tzga6qAaBA Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightning and grounds...
antenna. That sounds like it is the highest part of his installation and could take the brunt of a possible strike. The GPS antenna doesn't need to be elevated unless something locally obstructs its view of the sky. Most manufactures recommend the antenna be mounted away from lightning rods, not be mounted on the same mast that lightning may strike, yet under the zone of protection of the lightning rod. My HP/Symmetricom gps antennas are some 50 feet from the base of the various masts that hold other antennas/sensors/lightning rods and mounted only 3 feet above a flat roof. With 5 years of strikes, everything is still going strong. I'm located 50 foot away from a mountain ridge some 10-foot less in elevation; however, various antennas and weather sensors are forty feet high or still 30 foot higher than the ridge. Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5071A Electron Multiplier of Cesium Beam Tube
- Original Message - From: Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5071A Electron Multiplier of Cesium Beam Tube In message 4aa5766c.5090...@rubidium.dyndns.org, Magnus Danielson writes: Oh, I find the poem a nice tongue-in-cheek from its designer. We have always wanted refined high precission physical science to be dwelled into chants and poems of its master magicians. :) Those of you with a HP3458A can try to give it the command XYZZY via GPIB :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp The Poem ??? The earth is not a great clock. It's a good clock, but atomic standards are much better. - Len Cutler, Agilent Technologies, New York Times, January 17, 2002 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5071A Electron Multiplier of Cesium Beam Tube
http://tron.aps.org/publications/apsnews/200203/loader.cfm?csModule=security/getfilepageid=14965 look at Page 2 If it is a direct quote, public domain ? Phil - Original Message - From: J. Forster j...@quik.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5071A Electron Multiplier of Cesium Beam Tube Presumably, the author could put the poem in the Public Domain. Copyright poof! FWIW, -John - Original Message - From: Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5071A Electron Multiplier of Cesium Beam Tube In message 4aa5766c.5090...@rubidium.dyndns.org, Magnus Danielson writes: Oh, I find the poem a nice tongue-in-cheek from its designer. We have always wanted refined high precission physical science to be dwelled into chants and poems of its master magicians. :) Those of you with a HP3458A can try to give it the command XYZZY via GPIB :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp The Poem ??? The earth is not a great clock. It's a good clock, but atomic standards are much better. - Len Cutler, Agilent Technologies, New York Times, January 17, 2002 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS Antenna Voltage-Dropping
In a message dated 03/09/2009 02:05:20 GMT Daylight Time, brucekar...@aol.com writes: I bought a 3.6-V Trimble Bullet GPS antenna on ePay and wish to use it with my T-bolt. Rather than try to internally modify the T-bolt to provide a 3.6-V antenna feed, I decided to try to build an in-line dropping adapter. I seriesed two Si diodes inside a 100 pf tubular ceramic capacitor and installed the shrink-wrapped assembly inside a salvaged BNC-M to BNC-F coaxial assembly. Unfortunately the completed assembly exhibits about a 4-to-1 VSWR when terminated in a 50 ohm load. Has anyone else tackled this challenge? The 3.6-V Trimble antenna has less gain than the 5-V version which makes my planned antenna rcable run on the edge even without the high VSWR.. If you dont want to modify the T'bolt it would probably be easiest to derive 3.6v from the 5v supply external to the T'bolt and feed that into the antenna line with a blocking T. In the long run though it might be cheaper just to cut your losses and sell on the 3.6v version, buy a higher gain low cost 5v patch for now if you don't already have one, and keep an eye out for a 5v bullet if that's what you really want. regards Nigel GM8PZR I believe all the Trimble Bullet II and III's are rated 35 db gain. Most had F connectors and rated 5-volts. The TNC connector was the 3.3-volt version. All the Bullet II and III's (I've seen) are patch antennas in a Bullet housing. I have seen both versions use both a cast aluminum base with 4 screws attaching base to dome and also a plastic base glued to the Bullet dome. As have been discussed, you can use a bias-t and inject 3.3 from a separate supply or use a splitter such as the HP/Symmetricom 58535A and inject 3.3 from a separate supply on port 1. Both the Bias T and the splitter options require an external 3.3-volt supply plus 50 to 100 bucks for either the T or splitter. By far the best solution would be to buy a 5-volt antenna. If money is the problem, and you want a pole mountable outside antenna, search for a Marine GPS antenna. They are available in 25 to 37 db gain and can be had new for as little as 20 bucks. Most of the lower gain antennas seem to be marketed as jam resistant. Not recommended, but you could also replace the patch in the bullet antenna if it is the 4-screw version. There is a rubber o-ring seal that can be rather tight but that is the only thing other than the 4 external screws holding it together. Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OCXO sensitive to gravitational effects
- Original Message - From: Peter Putnam pico.2...@sbcglobal.net To: Time Nuts time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 1:30 AM Subject: [time-nuts] OCXO sensitive to gravitational effects You have all been a bit stingy with your gravitational inputs on the hp 18011 oscillator... one G this way... two Gs the other way... Here you can see the result of some serious Gs, all applied at the same time... e*.* auction item:160360186935 Add only $56.55 to your bid to ship the carcass. Peter, don't forget to add insurance ! haha ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Finding out who bidders are
The Bidder Code letters also changes, it is not fixed on a given users id. - Original Message - From: Rex r...@sonic.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 11:40 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Finding out who bidders are Interesting ideas. If only I had the time and patience to work out the list, like some of you have already done. How about somebody stepping up and starting a webpage database of Who's who in Business Industrial / Electrical Test Equipment with listings like: Bidder Code ScoreRating on Date may be eBay member a***e 345 99% Sep 01 2009someguy99 Perhaps some of it could be automated, altough the current eBay seems to be so loaded with Java or other scripts running in my browser that even just scanning the current listings myself is getting painfully slow. A Firefox extension that implemented this would be very sweet. -Rex Ed Palmer wrote: When you combine the alias with the rating - e.g. k***u ( 862 ) - the accuracy starts to resemble crosshairs in a sniper scope. Ed J. Forster wrote: Yup. It helps to know that the masked bidder ID, liks a***f, stays constant sale to sale. While there are only a few over 650 such combinations, it's still pretty accurate on items with limited appeal. -John == Hi all; It was nice back when ebay let us know who we were bidding against, if you were up a against some heavy hitter then why waste your time, etc. Now it takes a little more work to ferret out who you're up against. What I have done is to save the feedback page for a seller of an item I may have been out bid on. Usually within a short time the bidders feedback response shows up on the sellers feedback page, compare the feedback score back against the item page to check if you have the right person. Then from that you can do a bidder search in advanced search and look at items bid on in the last 30 days to cross check. I then save the bidder's bid page in a folder, I have done that to most of us bidding time-nuts. Creepy huh!?! Rich 1PPS ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Finding out who bidders are
Sure. The feedback numbers seem to follow but that's all. Fact is now, even a buy it now shows nothing, no id other than a sold date. Hope they leave feedback to the seller and track them that way. They are constantly changing everything, perhaps trying to emulate look feel of Amazon and others. It's not the same place anymore. Doesn't apply to everything but if you find an item that tickles your fancy, take the model and google it, you just may find it elsewhere cheaper or with someone you could negotiate with. Phil - Original Message - From: J. Forster j...@quik.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Finding out who bidders are Are you sure? I checked a number of times with things I'd bid on from different, some public, computers, some I've never, ever signed in with. -John === The Bidder Code letters also changes, it is not fixed on a given users id. - Original Message - From: Rex r...@sonic.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 11:40 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Finding out who bidders are Interesting ideas. If only I had the time and patience to work out the list, like some of you have already done. How about somebody stepping up and starting a webpage database of Who's who in Business Industrial / Electrical Test Equipment with listings like: Bidder Code ScoreRating on Date may be eBay member a***e 345 99% Sep 01 2009someguy99 Perhaps some of it could be automated, altough the current eBay seems to be so loaded with Java or other scripts running in my browser that even just scanning the current listings myself is getting painfully slow. A Firefox extension that implemented this would be very sweet. -Rex Ed Palmer wrote: When you combine the alias with the rating - e.g. k***u ( 862 ) - the accuracy starts to resemble crosshairs in a sniper scope. Ed J. Forster wrote: Yup. It helps to know that the masked bidder ID, liks a***f, stays constant sale to sale. While there are only a few over 650 such combinations, it's still pretty accurate on items with limited appeal. -John == Hi all; It was nice back when ebay let us know who we were bidding against, if you were up a against some heavy hitter then why waste your time, etc. Now it takes a little more work to ferret out who you're up against. What I have done is to save the feedback page for a seller of an item I may have been out bid on. Usually within a short time the bidders feedback response shows up on the sellers feedback page, compare the feedback score back against the item page to check if you have the right person. Then from that you can do a bidder search in advanced search and look at items bid on in the last 30 days to cross check. I then save the bidder's bid page in a folder, I have done that to most of us bidding time-nuts. Creepy huh!?! Rich 1PPS ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] [OT] Re: Power Back-up
- Original Message - From: David Martindale dave.martind...@gmail.com There's another potential problem with connecting larger batteries, too: heat. Small UPSes often have no cooling fan, and minimal heat sinking for the power transistors when operating in inverter mode. The UPS designers know that, with the stock battery, the inverter run time is going to be about 4 minutes at full load and maybe 30 minutes at very light load. So they just need to provide enough thermal mass to spread the heat around without temperatures getting too high for that short run duration, not enough cooling for the longer runtime provided by larger batteries. I have one UPS (a SL Waber) that has the inverter FETs and diodes mounted on a big chunk of aluminum inside the case, without any cooling fins on the aluminum, no fan, and only small slots in the plastic outer case. But the battery is only 12 V 4.5 Ah. This pretty clearly wouldn't survive being connected to a 20 Ah battery, even if you provided an external charger to keep the battery charged. The APC UPSes at least have conventional heat sinks on the transistors, but the smaller units have cases with no ventilation openings. If you re-engineer one of these for longer run time, you may need to change heat sinks, add ventilation slots, and/or add a fan. Dave The real pitfall with using larger than designed batteries in a UPS is the additional current required to charge the larger batteries. Transistors are not used in the output on most UPS's any more, most use power FET's and with it's lower resistance, doesn't dissipate as much heat. Running in a lost power state is not the issue; it's when the power comes back on and starts charging the batteries. Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 106B quartz frequency standard...the story
- Original Message - From: Dave M masond...@comcast.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 106B quartz frequency standard...the story Thanks for that! - I do have a number of the 5254L units and one of them is now being eyed off for organ donation. So thanks to all offers for the 1854-0003. The 2N1701 in a T08 is my next quest... 2009/8/10 Dave M masond...@comcast.net: Hi all, Latest update. With some help and phone calls from Bill the fault seems to have been isolated. I have removed Q11 from inside the oven and it is cactus. Q9 is also very suspect so I'm going to replace that for good measure. Q9 is a 2N1701 in a T08 package. Thanks to various people I should be able to track one down. Q11 is marked as 1854-0003 and that's an HP internal number and all I know. Might have to substitute that one. After all this I have some quality photos and can knock up some good descriptions of the repairs and the 106B internals if anyone is interested. Any websites hanging around that want to take what I have? Regards and thanks to all! Jim Palfreyman Jim, the 1854-0003 is a pretty common HP part in older eqpt. ?If you have junked 5245L counter handy, it's full of them, especially in the decade counter PCBs. ?If you don't have one handy, I have an assembly here with 8 of them on it. ?If you like, I can send it right away (if you're outside the USA, you pay postage). Dave M masondg44 at comcast dot net I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman, Where's the self-help section? She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose. Jim, The NTE sub for the 2N1701 is the NTE152, available from Mouser and many other suppliers. According to the datasheet, it's in a TO-220 case. If you want to try to find a sub in a smaller package, here are some of the pertinent specs for the 2N1701. NPN Silicon Vcbo = 40V Ic (max) = 2.5A Pd = 25W Hfe = 20-80 @ 300ma/4V Vsat = 1.5V @ Ic=300ma, Ib=30ua Iceo = 750ua @ 60V Ft = 350KHz Dave M masondg44 at comcast dot net I would not use a cheap general replacement transistor in a direct coupled unit unless it was absolutely positively the last one on earth. Many vendors have that 2N1701 in stock from 7 to 8 bucks American. We have repaired thousands (no exaggeration) of units that all that was wrong is where incompetent technicians used general replacement transistors rather than the originals in direct coupled amplifiers. http://store.americanmicrosemiconductor.com/2n1701.html Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 106B quartz frequency standard...the story
Jim, try this link http://octopart.com/info/RCA/2N1701 that first vendor has them for 5 bucks each, I didn't check shipping. Get someone you know stateside to buy them and post it to you if you are not in US. The above vendors don't have many, but I noticed other vendors with 15,000 plus in stock. It's readily available. Phil - Original Message - From: Jim Palfreyman jim77...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 10:36 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 106B quartz frequency standard...the story Hi Phil, 100% agree. I'm not going to risk a substitute - especially in the crystal oven. Unfortunately, check out http://www.americanmicrosemi.com/Shipping/ and see they will charge me US$69.99 which is AUS$100 for posting a single $8 transistor! The cheapest I have found so far is down to US$22 postage for a single transistor. Regards, 2009/8/11 phil fort...@bellsouth.net: - Original Message - From: Dave M masond...@comcast.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 106B quartz frequency standard...the story Thanks for that! - I do have a number of the 5254L units and one of them is now being eyed off for organ donation. So thanks to all offers for the 1854-0003. The 2N1701 in a T08 is my next quest... 2009/8/10 Dave M masond...@comcast.net: Hi all, Latest update. With some help and phone calls from Bill the fault seems to have been isolated. I have removed Q11 from inside the oven and it is cactus. Q9 is also very suspect so I'm going to replace that for good measure. Q9 is a 2N1701 in a T08 package. Thanks to various people I should be able to track one down. Q11 is marked as 1854-0003 and that's an HP internal number and all I know. Might have to substitute that one. After all this I have some quality photos and can knock up some good descriptions of the repairs and the 106B internals if anyone is interested. Any websites hanging around that want to take what I have? Regards and thanks to all! Jim Palfreyman Jim, the 1854-0003 is a pretty common HP part in older eqpt. ?If you have junked 5245L counter handy, it's full of them, especially in the decade counter PCBs. ?If you don't have one handy, I have an assembly here with 8 of them on it. ?If you like, I can send it right away (if you're outside the USA, you pay postage). Dave M masondg44 at comcast dot net I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman, Where's the self-help section? She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose. Jim, The NTE sub for the 2N1701 is the NTE152, available from Mouser and many other suppliers. According to the datasheet, it's in a TO-220 case. If you want to try to find a sub in a smaller package, here are some of the pertinent specs for the 2N1701. NPN Silicon Vcbo = 40V Ic (max) = 2.5A Pd = 25W Hfe = 20-80 @ 300ma/4V Vsat = 1.5V @ Ic=300ma, Ib=30ua Iceo = 750ua @ 60V Ft = 350KHz Dave M masondg44 at comcast dot net I would not use a cheap general replacement transistor in a direct coupled unit unless it was absolutely positively the last one on earth. Many vendors have that 2N1701 in stock from 7 to 8 bucks American. We have repaired thousands (no exaggeration) of units that all that was wrong is where incompetent technicians used general replacement transistors rather than the originals in direct coupled amplifiers. http://store.americanmicrosemiconductor.com/2n1701.html Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Tbolt not talking
Ulrich, That program I linked to earlier, microsofts ComDisable, will stop that com port from detecting attached devices on boot for selected ports. Once the system boots there is no issue using the com ports. We used to have that problem with weather equipment attached to com ports. Windows would configure the com port with the data on boot as a mouse and the curser bounced all over the screen. That program just modifies a registry entry. It is executed on a command line. Phil - Original Message - From: Ulrich Bangert df...@ulrich-bangert.de To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 2:22 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Tbolt not talking Since this problem arises at Windows BOOT time (long before any application software possibly not directly written into XP environments can get active), this is clearly NOT an application program problem. The problem arises ONLY with external serial devices that send serial information on a regular base without being asked for. During the boot process Windows tries to detect what kind of pointing devices are connected to the serial ports and sarches for mice, trackballs ad so on. With devices that always talk Windows thinks it gets an answer and believes that the device is a mouse or a trackball or whatever. The problem first got discussed with GPS receivers that sent NMEA information with a 1 s timebase. One clue is to limit the searched serial ports by a entry in a Windows Ini-file. Best regards Ulrich -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] Im Auftrag von erniepe...@aol.com Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. Juli 2009 18:14 An: time-nuts@febo.com Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] Tbolt not talking Hi, this Windows XP serial port problem is the biggest headache when you run a program which is not directly written into XP environments... I have an old compi running under WIN 98SE and never got any problem. just think... when was the Tbolt software developed. many years before XP was born.. Rgds Ernie. -Original Message- From: phil fort...@bellsouth.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wed, Jul 22, 2009 5:56 pm Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Tbolt not talking Where windoz incorrectly detects a serial device that is connected to your computer on boot. check this out: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/819036 - Original Message - From: Robert Darlington rdarling...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Tbolt not talking If mine was attached to the system at boot, Windows XP thought it was some kind of serial mouse -even when I was going through USB/RS-232 adapter. Try disconnecting, reboot, then hook it back up and run the software. To fix Windows so that didn't happen again, I booted with it attached, disconnected so it didn't make my mouse cursor jump around, and then went into device manager and disabled the new device which showed up as some type of mouse. -Bob On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 9:02 AM, John Green wpxs...@gmail.com wrote: I got one of the Chinese Tbolts off eBay and when I powered it up and ran Tboltmon, I got nothing. I checked the com port and it is correct. I am using a USB to serial converter but I don't believe that is what the problem is since I have used it to program some Motorola radios that have a reputation for being picky about their serial connections. I will try a standard serial port but are there other things I should look at? I did look at the manual but didn't see anything that might help. This is my first experience with Tbolts. I already have a Z3801 and recall having some problems getting it to talk. Any help appreciated. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing=2 0list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions
Re: [time-nuts] EFRATOM MFTD-AC4 FREQUENCY REFERENCE DISTRIBUTIONAMP - update
Demain, I too bought a couple of that same model but it will be about a week before I have receive them. Did you see that data sheet that Bruce linked to? http://www.freewebs.com/beststuff2u/MFS-207.pdf From what I understood of the distribution modules (MBF), each module had 4 different outputs, each module a .1, 1, 5, 10 MHz. Most of the standards that same seller had appeared to be 5 MHz out so I expected a 5 meg input. That same data sheet states under MBF options that most of the modules are 5/10 MHz input but two were dedicated 5 or 10 meg only. Perhaps we got the 5 meg only ! From what you are saying, each port on the MBF module is outputting the same thing, strictly distribution. That's fine, perhaps they meant the MFT would pass .1 to 10 meg. If that's the case we should still be able to modify the input module. My application is the same as yours, not a time-nut application! I though it worth the gamble for the cheap price. Phil - Original Message - From: Demian Martin demian...@yahoo.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 3:48 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] EFRATOM MFTD-AC4 FREQUENCY REFERENCE DISTRIBUTIONAMP - update I received the unit. The shipping and packing was very good- no peanuts! The one I got was different from what I expected. It's a 5 MHz unit with 20 outputs. More than I could conceivably need. I looked inside. The supply is actually 25V. The input module has an FPGA for some reason, probably to communicate fault back to a host. The signal is distributed as a low level square wave on the backplane and amplified through a high gain tuned amp before going to the output amps. The outputs are all monitored. I need to figure out the tuned circuit so I can retune it. Would the performance be better if I bypass the input module and drive the output modules with a sine wave? I'm using it as a reference for some not-too-sophisticated counters and generators so the phase noise will be much better than those could benefit from regardless. Demian Martin PDS -- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 22:46:44 -0700 From: Demian Martin demian...@yahoo.com Subject: [time-nuts] EFRATOM MFTD-AC4 FREQUENCY REFERENCE DISTRIBUTION AMP To: time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 9a1668b965254471953484d102b6a...@pdsdesktop Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii EFRATOM MFTD-AC4 FREQUENCY REFERENCE DISTRIBUTION AMP I just bought this off eBay. I was about to look into building one but for $50 + $25 shipping I could not justify the effort. They have 6 more. Item number 290330439821. Probably a deal for the box alone. Is there anything I should know about it? I'm planning to mount a Thunderbolt inside it. There is a decent datasheet on the family of products here: http://www.freewebs.com/beststuff2u/MFS-207.pdf Demian Martin ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] EFRATOM MFTD-AC4 FREQUENCY REFERENCEDISTRIBUTIONAMP - update
Demain, Apparently, in my rush I misread that data sheet. If it can't be easily modified, some of the guys were offering a decent distribution board at a reasonable price. I too need a sine wave rather than square. It still makes one heck of a nice housing so nothing is lost. Phil - Original Message - From: phil fort...@bellsouth.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 4:29 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] EFRATOM MFTD-AC4 FREQUENCY REFERENCEDISTRIBUTIONAMP - update Demain, I too bought a couple of that same model but it will be about a week before I have receive them. Did you see that data sheet that Bruce linked to? http://www.freewebs.com/beststuff2u/MFS-207.pdf From what I understood of the distribution modules (MBF), each module had 4 different outputs, each module a .1, 1, 5, 10 MHz. Most of the standards that same seller had appeared to be 5 MHz out so I expected a 5 meg input. That same data sheet states under MBF options that most of the modules are 5/10 MHz input but two were dedicated 5 or 10 meg only. Perhaps we got the 5 meg only ! From what you are saying, each port on the MBF module is outputting the same thing, strictly distribution. That's fine, perhaps they meant the MFT would pass .1 to 10 meg. If that's the case we should still be able to modify the input module. My application is the same as yours, not a time-nut application! I though it worth the gamble for the cheap price. Phil - Original Message - From: Demian Martin demian...@yahoo.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 3:48 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] EFRATOM MFTD-AC4 FREQUENCY REFERENCE DISTRIBUTIONAMP - update I received the unit. The shipping and packing was very good- no peanuts! The one I got was different from what I expected. It's a 5 MHz unit with 20 outputs. More than I could conceivably need. I looked inside. The supply is actually 25V. The input module has an FPGA for some reason, probably to communicate fault back to a host. The signal is distributed as a low level square wave on the backplane and amplified through a high gain tuned amp before going to the output amps. The outputs are all monitored. I need to figure out the tuned circuit so I can retune it. Would the performance be better if I bypass the input module and drive the output modules with a sine wave? I'm using it as a reference for some not-too-sophisticated counters and generators so the phase noise will be much better than those could benefit from regardless. Demian Martin PDS -- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 22:46:44 -0700 From: Demian Martin demian...@yahoo.com Subject: [time-nuts] EFRATOM MFTD-AC4 FREQUENCY REFERENCE DISTRIBUTION AMP To: time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: 9a1668b965254471953484d102b6a...@pdsdesktop Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii EFRATOM MFTD-AC4 FREQUENCY REFERENCE DISTRIBUTION AMP I just bought this off eBay. I was about to look into building one but for $50 + $25 shipping I could not justify the effort. They have 6 more. Item number 290330439821. Probably a deal for the box alone. Is there anything I should know about it? I'm planning to mount a Thunderbolt inside it. There is a decent datasheet on the family of products here: http://www.freewebs.com/beststuff2u/MFS-207.pdf Demian Martin ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Tbolt not talking
Where windoz incorrectly detects a serial device that is connected to your computer on boot. check this out: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/819036 - Original Message - From: Robert Darlington rdarling...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Tbolt not talking If mine was attached to the system at boot, Windows XP thought it was some kind of serial mouse -even when I was going through USB/RS-232 adapter. Try disconnecting, reboot, then hook it back up and run the software. To fix Windows so that didn't happen again, I booted with it attached, disconnected so it didn't make my mouse cursor jump around, and then went into device manager and disabled the new device which showed up as some type of mouse. -Bob On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 9:02 AM, John Green wpxs...@gmail.com wrote: I got one of the Chinese Tbolts off eBay and when I powered it up and ran Tboltmon, I got nothing. I checked the com port and it is correct. I am using a USB to serial converter but I don't believe that is what the problem is since I have used it to program some Motorola radios that have a reputation for being picky about their serial connections. I will try a standard serial port but are there other things I should look at? I did look at the manual but didn't see anything that might help. This is my first experience with Tbolts. I already have a Z3801 and recall having some problems getting it to talk. Any help appreciated. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] US ebay sellers who won't ship outside the US
A few other reasons that come into play for not shipping outside of USA, (1) With respect to items a seller may purchase from Federal auctions or a company such as Honeywell that is under federal contract, the general terms of the sale/auction is that the items will not be exported. Certainly, some items could/would fall into the dual-use category. I doubt a kitchen table would be dual-use unless you assemble bombs on it, yet the terms of some auctions are explicit, no exporting. (2) What stops the most small sellers from shipping out of the US is the financial risk. In reading some of the forums on eBay, sellers are getting scammed in numerous ways. You have PayPal that seems to side with the purchaser regardless of circumstances. If an item is returned to seller for any reason the seller will at least loose the shipping cost, possibly fees, and with extreme luck get the item back rather than a box of rocks. Should a buyer tell PayPal an item is counterfeit, PayPal will often tell the buyer to destroy the unit/item and refund buyer everything. A charge back is issued to the seller and the seller is out all cost, fees, shipping, and DOES NOT get the item back. If you notice, some of the sellers that do export require an irrevocable form of payment (non PayPal) and stipulate no warranty or returns when shipped out of the USA. (3) Excessive shipping cost. Shipping cost on a heavy item to Europe can be in the hundreds of dollars. PayPal now requires a signature on anything 250.00 US or more and I understand that overseas signature can only be had with air shipping. (4) Not only the financial risk and excessive shipping cost, the additional paperwork, extra PayPal fees to convert the foreign currency to dollars make it not worth the effort. A seller can sell/ship with relative safety state to state and have some assurance of legal protections, virtually no protections selling/shipping out of the US. A thought ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Need sevice manual or schematics for Fluke 103A
- Original Message - From: Dave M masond...@comcast.net To: Yahoo Manual Exchange manual_excha...@yahoogroups.com; TimeNuts time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 1:13 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Need sevice manual or schematics for Fluke 103A I have a Fluke (Montronics) model 103A Frequency Comparator that is acting up. I have the Operating Instructions manual, but it has no schematics. I'm looking for a copy of the complete service manual or the schematics. I've looked at all the usual online sources for the manual, (I bought the manual that I have from an online vendor), but no luck. Can someone point me to a source? Many thanks!! Dave M masondg44 at comcast dot net Dave, I have that manual and could perhaps scan SOME of the pages you need but it is large or thick and all the schematics are fold out pages. Most of the manual is schematics. Have you isolated the problem to a board or section? Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Need sevice manual or schematics for Fluke 103A
The Fluke 203A is the 1 MHz Distribution Amplifier What's the 103A manual worth ? - Original Message - From: Dave M masond...@comcast.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 10:39 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Need sevice manual or schematics for Fluke 103A Thanks for that, Phil. I have located a listing for a Fluke 203A manual, but don't know yet if it's for the Fluke/Montronics Frequency Comparator or something else from Fluke before they acquired Montronics. Waiting for a reply from the vendor. If it's the right manual, I'll buy it rather than bothering with scanning/copying. I have not isolated the trouble.. without so much as a block diagram of the innards, it's a bit difficult to get much figured out without making it a summer-long project. The trouble is that the front panel phase meter and the phase output jump around quite a bit, even when feeding the same source into both inputs. It's like it can't figure out which frequencies to mix for the comparison. In a different vein, I also have a Fluke/Montronics model 203A Distribution Amp.that I'd like to get into. It's set up for 100KHz, 1MHz and 5MHz channels; all non-isolated. I'd like to see the schematics for the preamps and output amps so that perhaps I could modify the 100KHz or 5MHz channel to be a 10MHz channel, and provide isolation as well. Can anyone help with the schematics for the 203A DA? Thanks again, Phil; I'll be in touch if the manual turns out to be the wrong one. Dave M masondg44 at comcast dot net - Original Message - From: Dave M masond...@comcast.net To: Yahoo Manual Exchange manual_excha...@yahoogroups.com; TimeNuts time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 1:13 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Need sevice manual or schematics for Fluke 103A I have a Fluke (Montronics) model 103A Frequency Comparator that is acting up. I have the Operating Instructions manual, but it has no schematics. I'm looking for a copy of the complete service manual or the schematics. I've looked at all the usual online sources for the manual, (I bought the manual that I have from an online vendor), but no luck. Can someone point me to a source? Many thanks!! Dave M masondg44 at comcast dot net Dave, I have that manual and could perhaps scan SOME of the pages you need but it is large or thick and all the schematics are fold out pages. Most of the manual is schematics. Have you isolated the problem to a board or section? Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Advice ? Fluke 207 / 103A + complete manuals
Advice ? Dave M's question about that manual reminded me of a bunch of this old stuff I have just occupying space. I have an old Fluke 207 VLF Receiver/Comparator (I think 207-5) complete with manual/schematics as well as the Fluke 103A with manual/schematics. They haven't been hooked up or used in years but it's time to clean house on a bunch of this old stuff. Could anyone give me some idea of value, if any these days? Perhaps as lot. Many thanks ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Linux time servers
- Original Message - From: M. Warner Losh i...@bsdimp.com To: time-nuts@febo.com; dave.g0...@tiscali.co.uk Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 3:02 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Linux time servers In message: 4a0d0fa0.3020...@tiscali.co.uk Dave Ackrill dave.g0...@tiscali.co.uk writes: : M. Warner Losh wrote: : : I'd try the FreeBSD distribution of Linux. : : Thanks for the suggestions to use something else, but not an option. : : Like I say, I *have* fedora, I'm not planning to uninstall it as it was : installed for me and I don't want the hassle. HI Then just install ntpd and be done with it. If you want sub-microsecond sync to a PPS, you'll be disappointed. If you want about 10ms over a LAN, then you'll be happy. Warner You might consider switching to FreeBSD for more reasons than just timing, It's much faster than Fedora and I found the new 7.1 version easy to install. I have 30 some servers and switching all to FreeBSD. Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Datum 9390 Problems
- Original Message - From: Thomas Folkers tfolk...@email.arizona.edu To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 3:10 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Datum 9390 Problems On Mar 22, 00:00 UT, both of our Datum 9390 model GPS receivers/time code generators started producing erroneous day of year and actual year values. Symmetricom could care less, no, in fact they are rather happy as they would like all that old equipment to be buried. Firmware for that vintage is out of the question now. It is my understanding that newer receiver boards solved that issue. My question, could some newer generic receiver module be programmed/interfaced to replace that board? I don't have a component level manual on that receiver. I too have a couple of those units that we use simply for the disciplined rubidium 10 meg out even though the week and year is and has been off for some time. Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran-C French Clocks
- Original Message - From: Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 7:36 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran-C French Clocks Arnold, Arnold Tibus skrev: Magnus and all, interestlingly the discussion about GMT seem to be a never ending story, all over the world. As I know GMT was already renamed in the year 1925 ( or 1928 acc. other source ) to UT and universal time coordinated (U T C) (that) is standard since January 1, 1972. acc. About the Time : http://www.fai.org/astronautics/time.asp , look into the short overview to this history. Does anyone know the exact difference between GMT and UTC? - this question seem to be already very old, Magnus. Um. That's not the question I am asking. Richard B. Langley wrote a summary trying to give the right answer with A Few Facts Concerning GMT, UT, and the RGO . His article can be found here: http://www.apparent-wind.com/gmt-explained.html It summarizes: The Greenwich mean time, GMT, has today only an historical interest. It has been abandoned since the thirties for successively the T U 1, the T U 2 and finally, in 1972, for the much more regular universal time coordinated, U T C, that must be used for all present use. ! That is what I thought as well quite a while. But I had to change ever so often all kind of scientific and technical units, and I see the need to adopt it, I am sure we have to be open for more steps into the future. Learning will never end...! You brings me no new knowledge, only a few more links, which I suspect repeats what my sources already says to me. I already know what GMT is in the several senses it is. For me it is clearly not UTC, except for the GMT transmissions done by BBC. I object to the use of GMT when it should say UTC, they should not be used interchangeably when talking about international time. The question I am asking is really about which is the time-scale accepted for national time in various countries. So far: UTC based: France, Sweden GMT based (UT1?): Great Brittian, Denmark I suspect several countries (such as US, Germany etc. etc) to be UTC based, but I do not know for sure. As you see, this is a quite different question then asking about what is GMT or what timezone is country X. Cheers, Magnus This will answers all the questions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GMT . ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Time offset
Magnus, The most comprehensive collection of time offset data and reference to each countries latest laws might be found at: http://www.twinsun.com/tz/tz-link.htm Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Time offset
- Original Message - From: Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:20 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Time offset Phil, phil skrev: Magnus, The most comprehensive collection of time offset data and reference to each countries latest laws might be found at: http://www.twinsun.com/tz/tz-link.htm As far as I can see, it works under assumption that GMT = UTC. Thus, it fails on my lackmus test of GMT+1h for Denmark. While it is a great resource, if fails this fine distinction that I was asking about. Cheers, Magnus Magnus, On that same page was a link to an older archive, tzarchive.gz ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/tzarchive.gz You will find references to actual laws and links imbedded in that for various countries. Your assumption that that GMT = UTC I would say is true from 1970 on. GMT was the first internationally accepted international/global standard with various legally defined offsets. It was only after the advent of the cesium and the gps system that UTC became the standard, again with the legal offsets. Most older law, pre 1970 I've seen references to gmt, but when laws are appended for example saving time, reference is often or sometimes made to utc, though the old legal definition may still reference gmt. Perhaps most lawmakers accept them (gmt, utc) to be the same with their local/regional offsets now that you can get standardized utc off satellites world wide. Other than the flying clock how else can all countries of the world synchronize their time? I think a lot of small countries have a single cesium, if that, tied to gps and vend their countries official time based on that. In that case they are based on UTC regardless of the wording of their prior law. I know in North Carolina, USA a law was still on the books a few years ago that it was illegal to look at your wife naked. Law is often slow to catch up with society and technology. The various countries definitions of time referencing GMT may too be laws that have not come into the twentieth century though utc (with offsets) is now the accepted standard. Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] huntron tracker advice troubleshooting withoutschematic advise
- Original Message - From: Patrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 7:39 PM Subject: [time-nuts] huntron tracker advice troubleshooting withoutschematic advise Hi Everyone I have consistently had success repairing laboratory instruments(my small business) when I have a schematic and I have consistently failed without one, lots of opportunities are slipping threw my fingers. I want to invest in tools that will help me troubleshoot without a schematic. I was thinking about getting a Huntron tracker. Has anyone had any experience with one? Could you feedback? Are there other tools that have helped you fix circuit boards without a schematic? Thanks in advance-Patrick Patrick, We have used that technique of quick troubleshooting some components off an on for forty years, long before the Huntron tracker came about. I first saw an article about that method in a service bulletin from Sylvania back in the mid 60's. If you have an x-y scope or a scope that has and external horizontal input with variable gain, a small external circuit in addition to the scope will do the same thing as the Huntron tracker. This would give you the ability to play with it without spending any money. The circuit consists of a transformer with 3 to 6 volts out, a few resistors, diode or two and a switch. If needed I could find the original schematic, but doing a google on it turned up a couple of links, noted below. Inexpensive Curve Tracer http://www.fisica.ucn.cl/sochifi/actas/pdf/A039.pdf http://groups.google.com/group/rec.audio.tubes/browse_thread/thread/384a37553565e87b As others have noted in this thread, it doesn't fix anything but can be useful in some applications. It will quickly identify a short or open and with experience, identify most defective discreet semiconductors. In the case of complex IC's, I doubt it would be much use. If you research the Huntron tracker display results, you will see the patterns displayed in various semiconductor situations. As a general rule, servicing electronics, or about anything is simply a logic and deduction process. Basic knowledge of the components, theory of operation, and of the circuit under test is still necessary. Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] position determination over short distance
- Original Message - From: Rick Harold [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 9:34 PM Subject: [time-nuts] position determination over short distance All, I'm planning doing some experiments in distance measurement. They don't deal with atomic time directly but with extreme short periods of time. I need to determine the position of a instrument with a 1mm accuracy or less. The instrument is not connected to a mechanical device but is separate independent. The surface which the instrument is positioned on is close to the size of a 11x11 square. I thought of using 1 RF transmitters (not sure of freq) on bottom of the device near the surface. The surface would have RF receivers on 3 or 4 edges/corners to receive the signal. If each of the receivers positions are known and they then send a signal to a central circuit (again known positions) how can I differentiate the time of arrival at the central location? Does anybody know of a circuit/chip or system which would determine the time 'difference'. Obviously this is used to triangulate the position of the instrument. Light travels 1 mm in ~3.3 picoseconds so I would suspect the differentiator would have to have that or better resolution. It could also use some proportional method to extrapolate the position since the surface has a fixed size. Any ideas/thoughts? Thanks in advance. Rick Harold Rather vague as to what you are doing. Have you considered ultrasonics or even laser rather than RF? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] beautiful jump
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: time-nuts@febo.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] beautiful jump Hi Antonio, wow, that's amazing. Your prediction was pretty accurate!! So I wonder if we have one of the most sensitive gravitational sensors out there :) How did you correlate the jump to the new moon sequence? Did your units jump accordingly? University of Colima refused the new replacement unit you offered them (I believe for free). I think that there is some reason Well, they said it was extremely difficult to get packages in and out of Mexico due to the customs, so they rather keep that unit since the jumps are generally less than 1ppb. We lost some packages that were sent to them. But yes, maybe they are aware of the potential sensitivity to stellar constellations?? bye, Said If the oscillator was placed inside a separate, locally created magnetic field, would that stop or lessen that jump? Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Need Help - Datum 9390 GPS Time Code FrequencyGenerator
I've had three of those units and all three had different gps receiver/boards. Most as John said, are plug and play', however, all I have seen require about 40 ma to be drawn by the antenna to eliminate the antenna error on the display after it boots up. Most of those high current antennas like the older Trimble's had about 42 db gain. I'm not saying that is the problem, but you did say Signal Level Low. Most of the antenna error problems can be tricked into thinking the antenna is there by paralleling a resistor on the antenna/input. (that dosen't solve your present no signal problem) I had one crap out a few days ago where the receiver front-end gave up the ghost. Most of that vintage electronics loose capacitors with age, possibly that is the issue. I was also wondering if a newer receiver could be substituted/adapted like the trimble ace 2 or 3. Oh, a side note, unless it was upgraded just prior to being obsoleted it will have the gps week rollover problem. Time and frequency will be fine but date and week will be wrong. Phil - Original Message - From: John Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Need Help - Datum 9390 GPS Time Code FrequencyGenerator Sounds like you're doing everything right. 9390s are plug-and-play by nature, so I'd have to wonder if there's some front-end damage to the GPS receiver. -- john, KE5FX -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Myers, Charlie Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 6:59 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Need Help - Datum 9390 GPS Time Code FrequencyGenerator Importance: High I recently obtained a Datum model# 9390-52321 GPS Time Code Frequency Generator. This unit has a Rubidium time base. I hooked the unit up to my Motorola GPS2000 GPS antenna (which is mounted on the roof of my house) and powered the unit up, but I can't seem to get the unit to see the satellites. I keep getting the following error message on the LCD display, Signal Level Low followed by the status message, GPS Time Not Acquired. I checked the antenna and transmission line and they seem to be okay because they operate my HP z3801A GPS time/frequency receiver just fine and I get plenty of satellite signal level on the HP receiver. I checked the +5 volts on the antenna connector on the back of the Datum unit and that measures correctly. Does anyone have any ideas where to look or what other tests to perform to isolate this problem? Thanks for any assistance you can provide me. Charlie Myers WA3RAD ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Truetime Time server NTS-100 Downconverter infowanted
Might it be possible a word of caution is in order? Was not a downconverter used with the old GOES (L-band) Truetime satellite equipment. That would not be the same as the down converters used on gps. Just a thought. Phil - Original Message - From: Scott McGrath [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Truetime Time server NTS-100 Downconverter infowanted We have the time vault units - soon to be replaced with 3500's with Rb Oscillators. The 'downconverter' is an amplifier used for long cable runs and the power injection is changed as well.I would measure what the NTS-100 is actually putting out without the downconverter our NTS-300/TimeVault unit puts +12 on the cable it may be much higher for the downconverter.There are some TrueTime upconverters on EBAY right now which should do the job - Scott On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 12:17 AM, Don E. Wisdom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, I have a NTS-100 GPS model. I am going to be putting it into use @ my employers where I have a T1 Rooftop access backup power. It has the lovely downconverter required sticker on the back of it. It does NOT like my trimble bullet antenna. Can someone let me know how I can get this working with a Andrews GPS antenna? Thanks --Don ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Truetime Time server NTS-100 Downconverter infowanted
Don, I understand this gentleman has the NTS-100, it's gps, we have a several of them. I have seen Truetime downconverters on ebay where they didn't know or state what it was for, but in reality it was for the old goes truetime receivers. That's what I meant about being careful what you buy on ebay. Phil - Original Message - From: Don E. Wisdom [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 12:43 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Truetime Time server NTS-100 Downconverter infowanted Phil, Its the GPS unit not the GOES --Don On 10/4/08 10:41 PM, phil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Might it be possible a word of caution is in order? Was not a downconverter used with the old GOES (L-band) Truetime satellite equipment. That would not be the same as the down converters used on gps. Just a thought. Phil - Original Message - From: Scott McGrath [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Truetime Time server NTS-100 Downconverter infowanted We have the time vault units - soon to be replaced with 3500's with Rb Oscillators. The 'downconverter' is an amplifier used for long cable runs and the power injection is changed as well.I would measure what the NTS-100 is actually putting out without the downconverter our NTS-300/TimeVault unit puts +12 on the cable it may be much higher for the downconverter.There are some TrueTime upconverters on EBAY right now which should do the job - Scott On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 12:17 AM, Don E. Wisdom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, I have a NTS-100 GPS model. I am going to be putting it into use @ my employers where I have a T1 Rooftop access backup power. It has the lovely downconverter required sticker on the back of it. It does NOT like my trimble bullet antenna. Can someone let me know how I can get this working with a Andrews GPS antenna? Thanks --Don ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] While we're discussing backups...
- Original Message - From: Neon John [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 1:10 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] While we're discussing backups... On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 03:34:11 +, Mark Sims [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pointless overkill? Ask those people in New Orleans what happens when originals and backups are kept in the same city. I know of several (ex) businesses that wisely kept their backups in different buildings there... all were lost. Ask my friends in Jarrell, Texas (or what's left of them after a tornado leveled the city)... one friend kept backups at his and his parent's house... a lifetime's work lost... not to mention a lot of friends and family. All legitimate disaster plans specify that backups (and contingency operating sites) are not to be kept in the same geographic area. Failure to do so in a corporate setting would expose you to major liability claims. It's a big old world out there and if you look hard enough, you can find something to justify most any plan, regardless of how outrageous, if a single occurance is acceptable justification. Of course, by that standard we all should walk around wearing Kevlar helmets. After all, there has been a single instance of someone being hit by a meteorite in recorded history. If I'd lived and operated a data center in NO even before Katrina, I'd have considered flooding to be a high percentage risk and done something appropriate about it. If I lived in the high desert, I'd not worry too much about flooding. The silliness in your advice is that you offered up one of the most extreme solutions as generic advice and said that anything less was no backup at all or something to that effect even though you don't know my or any other list member's circumstances. Let's see how your advice and its associate expense fits my situation since I'm the one you replied to. I'm retired so total loss of my data would have no financial impact. A huge sentimental and legacy impact, in terms of both my writings, designs and digital photos. Interestingly enough, all those types of data are backed up multiple ways including on a set of DVDs resting in a friend's safe who lives a few miles away. My past design work is completely static, my photos mostly static and my writings a little less static so updates to that collection need be done only a couple of times a year. They'd only be needed if my cabin and its contents suddenly and completely disappeared somehow. I live in a cabin on gentle sloping ground about 200 feet above the Tellico river. Short of The Great Flood 2.0, water on the ground cannot reach my place. Period. That takes NO-style flooding off the table. The basement of my cabin sits on bedrock. The combination of the gradual slope and the mere skim of topsoil takes land slides off the table. In my basement there is one of the largest gun safes made, one that I can stand up in. It is set through the concrete block wall, back into the soil bank behind my cabin so that the door is flush with the wall. In other words, like a vault. The safe itself weighs about 2 tons. The bottom few inches are filled with another ton of concrete and the foot of the safe is embedded in about 3 yards of steel-reinforced concrete, some of the steel welded to the safe's body. The lockworks are US government crypto-certified. I paid a bunch extra for that quality of lockwork. The combination lock is a Sergent and Green crypto-grade unit and the key lock is a Medico high security one. Both locks must be manipulated to open the safe. Inside the safe is another smaller valuables safe, also secured with a SG crypto-grade combo lock. It was intended for jewelry but I use it for backup media storage. Even sitting in the open it has the highest UL fire rating available. Set back in the dirt bank, it is impervious to fire. The safe is both alarmed and booby-trapped. (certain immaterial-to-this-discussion have been changed for obvious reasons.) I installed this safe years ago when I traveled a lot to protect my gun collection. It makes a damned fine data safe. So let's evaluate the risks Risk Covered? Fire check Earthquake check general floodNA local flood check* explosioncheck land slide NA BE check** Tornado check Riot check Nuclear attack check*** Nosey neighbors check * broken water pipe, etc. The basement is drained by gravity plus my alarm system has a leak detection facility that kills power to my well pump. ** adding to my protection against breaking and entering are all my heavily armed and dangerous neighbors. We put teeth in the term Neighborhood Watch. *** of any nearby strategic target such as Oak Ridge. Can't
Re: [time-nuts] While we're discussing backups...
- Original Message - From: Neon John [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:55 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] While we're discussing backups... On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:04:07 -0400, phil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: tell me what risk I'm exposed to An angry wife ! She and my (former) best friend ran away about 5 years ago. Thankfully. :-) John I used angry wife only to demonstrate that we often overlook something that we take for granted. From your reply, you proved the point. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Restoring GR 1120-AB Frequency Standard
Gentlemen, Original poster is trying to RESTORE this entire old General Radio Standard ( a rack of equipment) to it's original glory. He simply needs a part, a unique thermoswitch or a way to fix it, not retrofit an atomic engine! This is a museum class instrument, 100kc. May I suggest start a new thread on the better/best merits/design of temperature control. Makes it rather difficult to follow a thread as the subject has changed. Respectfully Phil - Original Message - From: Mike Monett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 9:20 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Restoring GR 1120-AB Frequency Standard Bruce Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Max A capacitance bridge using a transformer would be a lot more stable than merely using the capacitance to vary the frequency of an LC oscillator. The advantage of a capacitive sensing technique over a light beam is that it has much simpler and potentially more stable mechanical system than when a the mercury colum interrupts a light beam. Unless of course on has the Mercury column move a moire grating or similar setup such as making the top of the mercury column a reflector in an interferometer system. Bruce Very clever! According to this web page, interferometry could give a resolution of 0.15 nm, or close to the radius of a silver atom: http://www.aerotech.com/products/engref/intexe.html This video shows the basic principle in case you want to make your own: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1381543/laser_interferometer_homemade_for_20/ You can see from the movement of the fringes how sensitive interferometry can be. This should give unprecedented temperature control, so maybe someone has already done it. A google search gives lots of hits, but it is difficult to distinguish between controlling the termperature of something, and the need for accurate control of temperature to get stable fringes! Great idea! Regards, Mike Monett ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Restoring GR 1120-AB Frequency Standard
- Original Message - From: Magnus Danielson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 5:25 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Restoring GR 1120-AB Frequency Standard phil wrote: Gentlemen, Original poster is trying to RESTORE this entire old General Radio Standard ( a rack of equipment) to it's original glory. He simply needs a part, a unique thermoswitch or a way to fix it, not retrofit an atomic engine! This is a museum class instrument, 100kc. May I suggest start a new thread on the better/best merits/design of temperature control. Makes it rather difficult to follow a thread as the subject has changed. My proposal to use capacitive sensing rather than conductive sensing would handle the electrode oxide issue. It is meant as a means to go around the sensing issue with parts at hand and only some new electronic design of very simple form, not the means to supercalibrate something. I guess this only shows that time-nuts are time-nuts... Cheers, Magnus Magnus, Perhaps this will help understand why I made that comment. That old primary standard was quite a contraption. This things heyday was in the order of 1950's and used up into the 60's and some models into early 70's. Of course it was all tube equipment. My unit model was possibly a 620, it predated what Russ has (1100) but was quite similar in design. Russ's unit has all the multivibrators in one housing where mine was each separate. I think his is a 100kc oscillator and mine was 50kc. As I remember the one I had was in two 7-foot racks, a standard side and frequency measuring side. My oscillator was 50KC though about 300 dollars in the mid 6o's would have bought a 100kc quartz bar to upgrade it The unit had each module or circuit in a separate 19 rack space all averaging 8 inch high The main components, a power supply, oscillator (about 20 plus rack inches high by itself), separate multivibrators of 100kc, 10kc, 1kc, and 100 cycles. Yes they were called multivibrators though all tube. It also had a syncronometer at the top of the rack, better known as a clock. Apparently the crystal was rich in harmonics and they made use of it in this assembly. That clock ran off of the 1 kc output. The heart of the oscillator, main part of this contraption used a quartz bar about 3/8 of an inch square and about 2 inches long suspended on 4 springs. If I recall it was a single oven but it's specs called for about .01-degree regulation. I don't remember all the fine details, but it had many other components (all seperate rack units), a separate 5kc interpolation oscillator, amplifier, and even an 8-inch speaker to zero beat the standard to another unit, talking about phase lock! So as you can see, these vintage units only use/value is that of an antique or conversation piece. A 10811 would blow it away performance wise. Now with an understanding of that old antique, that discussion was like putting an electronic ignition in place of the old Ford Model T spark coil. You could, but .. You just search for the part. So it's not a time-nut issue as such other than appreciating the history or the evolution of time. I can see from the varied posts this is one heck of a super talented group. I guess we all get involved in something interesting and easily get carried away, as in the discussion. Granted you can do a given task many ways, and bantering ideas around is how things are born and perfected. Only problem is, it doesn't locate an original antique part, what he stated he wanted! That old GR stuff does occasionally show up, most free to haul off it's so massive. A bunch of the old vintage GR standard parts was listed as a lot on ebay some months ago. Someone asked what happened to my old GR stuff. I disposed of over 100 tons of old electronics that had accumulated including this old GR stuff. One of my sidelines was the used equipment business and the sales of tube stuff died. I had some 15,000 feet of junk as I call all this stuff. By the way, according to Bruce, that design of the old thermoswitch achieved resolutions as fine as .001 degrees. It would be hard to build any electronic sensor of any design that is that reliable and repeatable (.001 degree) with a one-time factory calibration good for a life exceeding 50 years without using a similar sensor design. The unit in question with the electrode in mercury design lasted about 50 years before showing it's age and misbehaving. Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FW: IIMorrow GPS units non-functional since Sunday
- Original Message - From: phil [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FW: IIMorrow GPS units non-functional since Sunday - Original Message - From: Thomas A. Frank [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 1:44 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FW: IIMorrow GPS units non-functional since Sunday It turns out every one of these units stopped working sometime Sunday and they don't fully understand the cause or the fix as of yet. Good news, I don't have a malfunctioning unit. Funny, but to me, having the thing stop working qualifies as malfunctioning. Just a thought. Tom Frank, KA2CDK malfunctioning? Can it be said, if you have a task that you are being paid big bucks an hour to perform, and have to stop in the middle to go the little boys room that you are malfunctioning? A firmware update is a heck of a lot better than a blown up unit. We have a bunch of various brand and model gps units (time, frequency standards etc.) and several we were required to update firmware over the years. Still going strong after their malfunction or update. Tom, sorry, no offence meant. I just couldn't resist interpreting your statement literally where you said: but to me, having the thing stop working qualifies as malfunctioning. Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Restoring GR 1120-AB Frequency Standard
Russ, In other words, you sound like you are not 100% sure it's the switch. A shame you couldn't graph voltage and current going to the switch as it cycles. Is it possible a cap or something else is intermittently failing in the circuit. Again I'm assuming with that resistance there is something between it and the heater. Though I had one, I don't think I ever looked inside the thing. I have seen some similar units (I think what you have) that use an almost paper thin column of mercury. I would guess that is how they can achieve the fine resolution/precision. Phil - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: time-nuts@febo.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 2:34 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Restoring GR 1120-AB Frequency Standard Phil, The details of the thermoswitch failure are not completely clear. Intermittently, the mercury column will pass the 78C point without causing circuit closure. Instead, a pulsating open / close with an internal resistance of 50K - 300K is observed. Circuit closure eventually happens at a temperature above 82C. Once an external failure, i.e. lead wiring, was ruled out, I used a borrowed microscope to view the internal structure of the thermoswitch. Unfortunately, this did not reveal the failure source. Russ -Original Message- From: phil [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 9:33 pm Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Restoring GR 1120-AB Frequency Standard Neville, good answer. Perhaps the original poster could supply a photo of his switch, perhaps more suggestions could be made. I think we had an old gr-1100 at one time, it was a 100kc unit. Needless to say it was scrapped years ago and I'm sure it's been melted down and sent back to the usa in tin cans or cars by now! I'm curious as to how the switch failed. I'm assuming it was a sealed unit. Phil - Original Message - From: Neville Michie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Restoring GR 1120-AB Frequency Standard Hi, this is a second attempt at an answer, the first seemed to evaporate. Mercury-in -glass thermometers have formed the basis of a system of thermostats used constant temperature systems of very high performance. A major producer of contact thermometers was Jumo (maybe German). These thermometers had a thin wire that went down the capillary and contacted the mercury at the set temperature. The system could be accurate to 0.005 degree. The control algorithm is alien to modern EEs but used a large thermal mass and a fixed rate of heating to produce a slow temperature ramp. Fast response by the thermometer switching kept overshoot down to millidegrees. A cycle time of 5 or 10 seconds kept a very low amplitude temperature ramp running up and down with mean temperature held quite close. Locating the thermometer close to the heater caused a little over control which reduced overshoot and cycle amplitude. The thermometers had up to 30 mA run through the wire, but more modern units reduced this to 1mA. If the tip is corroded on your thermometer contact, maybe a higher resistance measuring circuit may still operate reliably. Good Luck with the unit, Neville Michie On 20/08/2008, at 9:17 AM, Mark Sims wrote: I suspect the only place you would find a replacement themoswitch is in another unit. I also doubt that any current mechanical switch will be anywhere near stable and accurate enough. I stand by my original comments: Built a solid state functional replacement in the same form factor as the original unit. It will be hidden inside the oven assembly where only you will know of the dastardly deed that you did. If you ever find a replacement switch, you can install it and bask in its originality. Until then, bask in its solid state patch enabled oscillatude. A non-original part that restores a device to operating condition is far superior to a dead unit... particularly if the part is not visible. There are lots of zillion dollar antique cars winning best-of-show with modern internal engine components (not to mention bondo and fiberglass under the paint). _ Be the filmmaker you always wanted to beearn how to burn a DVD with Windows. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/108588797/direct/01/ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] FW: IIMorrow GPS units non-functional since Sunday
Although English is the worlds standard language for pilots. intelligent perhaps, but not all, we put two pilots away for embezzling, one was buying planes to rent and putting them in his name rather than the company name. That's not very intelligent ! - Original Message - From: Jim Palfreyman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 3:01 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FW: IIMorrow GPS units non-functional since Sunday When I fly in a commercial plane, the display in front of me shows its speed in km/h and height in metres. The pilot announces the same. I would have thought that if any group of people could convert quickly it would be airline pilots. They are intelligent and highly trained people - not likely to get emotional and try and hang on to outdated and silly units. It would make their job easier. Besides I'd be surprised if pilots in Europe (and other places too) didn't use metric exclusively. Jim 2008/8/20 Magnus Danielson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jim Palfreyman wrote: Wow. Don't tell me people still use miles? Nautical or otherwise? What's wrong with the good old kilometre? If the air industry would go fully metric, which they should eventually, they would have to change many things, like the indicating the level in foots. That alone should hurt with many pilots I guess. They are just pushing the shift further into time in hope they never need to deal with it. There are many manuals that needs to be rewritten, pilot retraining, rules to rewrite besides changing the scale of a few meters in the cockpit. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Restoring GR 1120-AB Frequency Standard
Russ, Also could it be a cold solder joint on the tubes connections, possibly look good but have a high resistance. That could account for an intermittent as you are describing. Sometimes we overlook the simplest of things. Phil - Original Message - From: phil [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: time-nuts@febo.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 3:26 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Restoring GR 1120-AB Frequency Standard Russ, In other words, you sound like you are not 100% sure it's the switch. A shame you couldn't graph voltage and current going to the switch as it cycles. Is it possible a cap or something else is intermittently failing in the circuit. Again I'm assuming with that resistance there is something between it and the heater. Though I had one, I don't think I ever looked inside the thing. I have seen some similar units (I think what you have) that use an almost paper thin column of mercury. I would guess that is how they can achieve the fine resolution/precision. Phil - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: time-nuts@febo.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 2:34 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Restoring GR 1120-AB Frequency Standard Phil, The details of the thermoswitch failure are not completely clear. Intermittently, the mercury column will pass the 78C point without causing circuit closure. Instead, a pulsating open / close with an internal resistance of 50K - 300K is observed. Circuit closure eventually happens at a temperature above 82C. Once an external failure, i.e. lead wiring, was ruled out, I used a borrowed microscope to view the internal structure of the thermoswitch. Unfortunately, this did not reveal the failure source. Russ -Original Message- From: phil [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 9:33 pm Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Restoring GR 1120-AB Frequency Standard Neville, good answer. Perhaps the original poster could supply a photo of his switch, perhaps more suggestions could be made. I think we had an old gr-1100 at one time, it was a 100kc unit. Needless to say it was scrapped years ago and I'm sure it's been melted down and sent back to the usa in tin cans or cars by now! I'm curious as to how the switch failed. I'm assuming it was a sealed unit. Phil - Original Message - From: Neville Michie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Restoring GR 1120-AB Frequency Standard Hi, this is a second attempt at an answer, the first seemed to evaporate. Mercury-in -glass thermometers have formed the basis of a system of thermostats used constant temperature systems of very high performance. A major producer of contact thermometers was Jumo (maybe German). These thermometers had a thin wire that went down the capillary and contacted the mercury at the set temperature. The system could be accurate to 0.005 degree. The control algorithm is alien to modern EEs but used a large thermal mass and a fixed rate of heating to produce a slow temperature ramp. Fast response by the thermometer switching kept overshoot down to millidegrees. A cycle time of 5 or 10 seconds kept a very low amplitude temperature ramp running up and down with mean temperature held quite close. Locating the thermometer close to the heater caused a little over control which reduced overshoot and cycle amplitude. The thermometers had up to 30 mA run through the wire, but more modern units reduced this to 1mA. If the tip is corroded on your thermometer contact, maybe a higher resistance measuring circuit may still operate reliably. Good Luck with the unit, Neville Michie On 20/08/2008, at 9:17 AM, Mark Sims wrote: I suspect the only place you would find a replacement themoswitch is in another unit. I also doubt that any current mechanical switch will be anywhere near stable and accurate enough. I stand by my original comments: Built a solid state functional replacement in the same form factor as the original unit. It will be hidden inside the oven assembly where only you will know of the dastardly deed that you did. If you ever find a replacement switch, you can install it and bask in its originality. Until then, bask in its solid state patch enabled oscillatude. A non-original part that restores a device to operating condition is far superior to a dead unit... particularly if the part is not visible. There are lots of zillion dollar antique cars winning best-of-show with modern internal engine components (not to mention bondo and fiberglass under the paint). _ Be the filmmaker you always wanted to beearn how to burn a DVD
Re: [time-nuts] Restoring GR 1120-AB Frequency Standard
Russ Do you have a photo, would it be possible to build? I have a few flasks of mercury and a few 10's of thousands of mercury wetted relays that some could be cannibalized for electrodes. The trick here is how thin is that column of mercury. My guess the thinner the column, the finer the resolution or the more it will travel with a small temp swing. Better yet, possible to cut that thing open and fix it. I know that's more time than it's worth. Another thought, if the contacts have corroded in the mercury, perhaps from contamination, would it be possible to burn the contamination off. Thinking of excessive voltage/current. Perhaps making it arc internally. Trick would be to limit current not to explode the thing, perhaps using a charged capacitor. Just a thought. Oh, do you have the whole rack, all dividers and the clock? I bet the old clock alone is worth a thousand bucks today. Seems like it was driven by 1 KC. My old standard was complete, a 5 or 6 foot rack and came out of an old Hamerland Radio plant. phil - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: time-nuts@febo.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 4:16 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Restoring GR 1120-AB Frequency Standard Phil, I didn't believe that the thermoswitch was the problem, at first, chiefly because of the simplicity of operation. Eventually, after checking wiring, a carbon resistor that is in series with the thermoswitch, and components around the inner oven control circuitry, I removed the thermoswitch to the bench. After hooking up to a ohmmeter and using a 60 watt light bulb as the heat source, I found that I could duplicate the a pulsating open / close as before. I first focused on the bulb leads and eventually completely removed the old leads and rebuilt each one and did all new soldering under magnification. The problem remains the same. I'm ready to move on at this point noting that this component failure has me stumped and that the fault is most likely internal to the thermoswitch (as strange as this seems). Years ago, when I first saw how internal temperature worked using the mercury thermometer switch, I remarked that it was one component that would never fail. HA! That statement came back to haunt me. Best, Russ -Original Message- From: phil [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 3:45 am Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Restoring GR 1120-AB Frequency Standard Russ, Also could it be a cold solder joint on the tubes connections, possibly look good but have a high resistance. That could account for an intermittent as you are describing. Sometimes we overlook the simplest of things. Phil - Original Message - From: phil [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: time-nuts@febo.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 3:26 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Restoring GR 1120-AB Frequency Standard Russ, In other words, you sound like you are not 100% sure it's the switch. A shame you couldn't graph voltage and current going to the switch as it cycles. Is it possible a cap or something else is intermittently failing in the circuit. Again I'm assuming with that resistance there is something between it and the heater. Though I had one, I don't think I ever looked inside the thing. I have seen some similar units (I think what you have) that use an almost paper thin column of mercury. I would guess that is how they can achieve the fine resolution/precision. Phil - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: time-nuts@febo.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 2:34 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Restoring GR 1120-AB Frequency Standard Phil, The details of the thermoswitch failure are not completely clear. Intermittently, the mercury column will pass the 78C point without causing circuit closure. Instead, a pulsating open / close with an internal resistance of 50K - 300K is observed. Circuit closure eventually happens at a temperature above 82C. Once an external failure, i.e. lead wiring, was ruled out, I used a borrowed microscope to view the internal structure of the thermoswitch. Unfortunately, this did not reveal the failure source. Russ -Original Message- From: phil [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 9:33 pm Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Restoring GR 1120-AB Frequency Standard Neville, good answer. Perhaps the original poster could supply a photo of his switch, perhaps more suggestions could be made. I think we had an old gr-1100 at one time, it was a 100kc unit. Needless to say it was scrapped years ago and I'm sure it's been melted down and sent back to the usa in tin cans or cars by now! I'm curious as to how the switch failed. I'm assuming it was a sealed unit. Phil
Re: [time-nuts] Restoring GR 1120-AB Frequency Standard
Bruce, nuf said, in that case it's the expansion of toluene, not the mercury. Can easily see how that would work, actually rather ingenious. As always, more than one way to do something. Thanks, Phil - Original Message - From: Bruce Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 7:05 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Restoring GR 1120-AB Frequency Standard phil wrote: Bruce, what was the diameter or how was the column situated to give those resolutions. Phil The thermoregulator consisted of a horizontal ring tube filled with toluene connected to a 13 long J -tube filled with mercury and containing a capillary section at the top. The top contact consisted of platinum wire within and parallel to the capillary section, the mercury entered the capillary section and made contact with the tip of the vertical platinum wire therein. The other contact was made via a piece of platinum wire sealed through the side of the glass tube below the capillary section. Thus the top contact platinum wire fine enough to fit within the capillary section of the J tube and to a first approximation the diameter has no effect on the sensitivity which is due to the relatively high thermal expansion of the (highly flammable and somewhat toxic) toluene. Platinum and iron have the advantage that they do not directly form amalgams on contact with mercury and are thus not embrittled by amalgamation. However amalgams of platinum and iron can be formed electrochemically. I have a couple of illustrations of such thermoregulators which I can scan if you wish. Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] SatStat talk to 58534A ?
Does anyone know if the Symmetricom SatStat software (Version 5) will talk to a HP/Symmetricom 58534A I've been trying to no avail to get anything out of the 58534A I've been using a BB Electronics RS422 to RS232 Converter. It locks, I have data on various pairs but trying to figure how to talk to it. I'm not 100 percent on pinouts but tried enough combinations that I should have hit on it ! Any help would be appreciated Thanks, Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] TBolt UK import
For Info: Importing 2 TBolts into the UK costs $29.11 duties and fees. Phil G4FXY ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 5370B arrived - any FAQ
Why an 8082A, that's a 250MHz unit. Would not an 8015A 50MHz work. I think it's the same only with a lower bandwidth. - Original Message - From: wje [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5370B arrived - any FAQ Why, you use your 8082A! I got one for a steal a couple of years ago on EBay. However, all you really need is a fast rise-time pulse generator that has external triggering and a variable trigger delay, and can generate a +1/-1 volt swing. The frequency the tests use aren't that critical, anything 1Mhz or higher should work. The only semi-critical parameter is the rise time; the faster it is, the less trigger uncertainty you'll have. 1ns is good. :) Also, unless the delay time setting is rather fine, it's extremely difficult to actually do the anti-coincidence alignment. What I'm missing is a spectrum analyzer, so I haven't done the frequency multiplier alignment on either of my 5370s. Any tricks for doing that without one? Bill Ezell -- They said 'Windows or better' so I used Linux. Chuck Harris wrote: wje wrote: Freq vs time interval - simplistic answer: when you're using time-gating, you're looking at more samples than in averaged one-period mode. For 10Mhz, a gate of 0.1 secs is 1 million periods. In period mode, you're averaging a maximum of 100,000 periods. Accuracy is proportional to the square root of the number of samples. Also, the trigger point jitter when in one-period mode affects every sample, but when in gate mode it only affects the first and last cycle. The 'specifications' section of the manual gives the formulas for determining both resolution and accuracy (which are NOT the same) for the various modes. I would suggest you go through the detailed alignment procedures even though the unit passes the operational checks. These units almost always have drifted out of alignment in the analog front-end unless you were lucky enough to get a freshly-calibrated one. You can usually significantly improve channel-to-channel trigger consistency and lower the jitter by doing so. What does one do where the tests call for an HP8082A pulse generator? The silly things are so rare that they are priced in the stratosphere! -Chuck Harris ___ time-nuts mailing list -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, go to [2]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. References 1. mailto:time-nuts@febo.com 2. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 5370B arrived - any FAQ
I Didn't look at pulse bandwidth. 2.4ns compared to 10 ns Other than that about the same unit. - Original Message - From: phil [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5370B arrived - any FAQ Why an 8082A, that's a 250MHz unit. Would not an 8015A 50MHz work. I think it's the same only with a lower bandwidth. - Original Message - From: wje [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5370B arrived - any FAQ Why, you use your 8082A! I got one for a steal a couple of years ago on EBay. However, all you really need is a fast rise-time pulse generator that has external triggering and a variable trigger delay, and can generate a +1/-1 volt swing. The frequency the tests use aren't that critical, anything 1Mhz or higher should work. The only semi-critical parameter is the rise time; the faster it is, the less trigger uncertainty you'll have. 1ns is good. :) Also, unless the delay time setting is rather fine, it's extremely difficult to actually do the anti-coincidence alignment. What I'm missing is a spectrum analyzer, so I haven't done the frequency multiplier alignment on either of my 5370s. Any tricks for doing that without one? Bill Ezell -- They said 'Windows or better' so I used Linux. Chuck Harris wrote: wje wrote: Freq vs time interval - simplistic answer: when you're using time-gating, you're looking at more samples than in averaged one-period mode. For 10Mhz, a gate of 0.1 secs is 1 million periods. In period mode, you're averaging a maximum of 100,000 periods. Accuracy is proportional to the square root of the number of samples. Also, the trigger point jitter when in one-period mode affects every sample, but when in gate mode it only affects the first and last cycle. The 'specifications' section of the manual gives the formulas for determining both resolution and accuracy (which are NOT the same) for the various modes. I would suggest you go through the detailed alignment procedures even though the unit passes the operational checks. These units almost always have drifted out of alignment in the analog front-end unless you were lucky enough to get a freshly-calibrated one. You can usually significantly improve channel-to-channel trigger consistency and lower the jitter by doing so. What does one do where the tests call for an HP8082A pulse generator? The silly things are so rare that they are priced in the stratosphere! -Chuck Harris ___ time-nuts mailing list -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, go to [2]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. References 1. mailto:time-nuts@febo.com 2. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Phil's Fluke Monotronics equipment
Bill, Just looked and it's Fluke/Montronics model 103A It's a big manual if I recall, about the same size as the 207. I could scan it later but need some block of time on that one. If you need it, I could perhaps drop it off at a copy shop and let them duplicate it. Most of those manuals had large pull-out schematics. Phil - Original Message - From: WB6BNQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 2:14 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Phil's Fluke Monotronics equipment Phil, Would it be possible to scan those manuals and provide them to Didier Juges, KO4BB, for inclusion to his manual page ? The following URL is to his manual page and the first item is the instructions for doing the uploading. http://www.ko4bb.com/cgi-bin/manuals.pl Thank you in advance for your consideration. BillWB6BNQ phil wrote: Going from memory, I think it's a 103. Yes I have the manuals for all that stuff I have. - Original Message - From: WB6BNQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 2:00 AM Subject: [time-nuts] Phil's Fluke Monotronics equipment Hi Phil, I am curious about your statement, below, concerning the separate Fluke comparator. Is it the Fluke Montronics model 100 ? If so, I have one of those and am wondering if you have the manual for it ? Thanks, BillWB6BNQ phil wrote: Speaking of the 207, is there any demand for that anymore? I still have an old Fluke 207, the separate Fluke comparator, and a Motorola standard we used with it. Just wondered if perhaps I should put it on ebay or is it a waste of time. Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Phil's Fluke Monotronics equipment
Bill, For specs, Tucker Still sells it. http://www.planettest.com/java/jsp/product_partno103A_invid33188_condR.htm - Original Message - From: WB6BNQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Phil's Fluke Monotronics equipment Phil, My unit is a model 100A and is in working condition. So no hurry in that regard. I am not sure what the difference is between it and the 103, although I think they may be similar. The model 100A is a simple panel with the 2 inputs and a range selector from 10E-6 to 10E-9. There are output BNC's for driving a scope or chart machine, etc.. When you get the chance, I, and I'm sure, others would appreciate it, thanks. BillWB6BNQ phil wrote: Bill, Just looked and it's Fluke/Montronics model 103A It's a big manual if I recall, about the same size as the 207. I could scan it later but need some block of time on that one. If you need it, I could perhaps drop it off at a copy shop and let them duplicate it. Most of those manuals had large pull-out schematics. Phil - Original Message - From: WB6BNQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 2:14 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Phil's Fluke Monotronics equipment Phil, Would it be possible to scan those manuals and provide them to Didier Juges, KO4BB, for inclusion to his manual page ? The following URL is to his manual page and the first item is the instructions for doing the uploading. http://www.ko4bb.com/cgi-bin/manuals.pl Thank you in advance for your consideration. BillWB6BNQ phil wrote: Going from memory, I think it's a 103. Yes I have the manuals for all that stuff I have. - Original Message - From: WB6BNQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 2:00 AM Subject: [time-nuts] Phil's Fluke Monotronics equipment Hi Phil, I am curious about your statement, below, concerning the separate Fluke comparator. Is it the Fluke Montronics model 100 ? If so, I have one of those and am wondering if you have the manual for it ? Thanks, BillWB6BNQ phil wrote: Speaking of the 207, is there any demand for that anymore? I still have an old Fluke 207, the separate Fluke comparator, and a Motorola standard we used with it. Just wondered if perhaps I should put it on ebay or is it a waste of time. Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Phil's Fluke Monotronics equipment
Bill did you click on that Download Specs link on that page. A PDF of more detail. - Original Message - From: WB6BNQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 3:22 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Phil's Fluke Monotronics equipment Phil, I had never seen a picture before. The 103 is much more envolved than the 100A. The 100A does not have meters, for example. Thanks for the link, BillWB6BNQ phil wrote: Bill, For specs, Tucker Still sells it. http://www.planettest.com/java/jsp/product_partno103A_invid33188_condR.htm - Original Message - From: WB6BNQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Phil's Fluke Monotronics equipment Phil, My unit is a model 100A and is in working condition. So no hurry in that regard. I am not sure what the difference is between it and the 103, although I think they may be similar. The model 100A is a simple panel with the 2 inputs and a range selector from 10E-6 to 10E-9. There are output BNC's for driving a scope or chart machine, etc.. When you get the chance, I, and I'm sure, others would appreciate it, thanks. BillWB6BNQ phil wrote: Bill, Just looked and it's Fluke/Montronics model 103A It's a big manual if I recall, about the same size as the 207. I could scan it later but need some block of time on that one. If you need it, I could perhaps drop it off at a copy shop and let them duplicate it. Most of those manuals had large pull-out schematics. Phil - Original Message - From: WB6BNQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 2:14 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Phil's Fluke Monotronics equipment Phil, Would it be possible to scan those manuals and provide them to Didier Juges, KO4BB, for inclusion to his manual page ? The following URL is to his manual page and the first item is the instructions for doing the uploading. http://www.ko4bb.com/cgi-bin/manuals.pl Thank you in advance for your consideration. BillWB6BNQ phil wrote: Going from memory, I think it's a 103. Yes I have the manuals for all that stuff I have. - Original Message - From: WB6BNQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 2:00 AM Subject: [time-nuts] Phil's Fluke Monotronics equipment Hi Phil, I am curious about your statement, below, concerning the separate Fluke comparator. Is it the Fluke Montronics model 100 ? If so, I have one of those and am wondering if you have the manual for it ? Thanks, BillWB6BNQ phil wrote: Speaking of the 207, is there any demand for that anymore? I still have an old Fluke 207, the separate Fluke comparator, and a Motorola standard we used with it. Just wondered if perhaps I should put it on ebay or is it a waste of time. Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
Re: [time-nuts] Avaliability of chart paper for Fluke Monotronics207
Search Google for Rustrack Chart Paper Paper is available from numerous sources but you need to shop for it as it can be pricey. One link, http://www.phorp.com/partlow_chart_paper.htm Speaking of the 207, is there any demand for that anymore? I still have an old Fluke 207, the separate Fluke comparator, and a Motorola standard we used with it. Just wondered if perhaps I should put it on ebay or is it a waste of time. Phil - Original Message - From: Bob Martinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 12:54 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Avaliability of chart paper for Fluke Monotronics207 Try: http://iseinc.com/Rustrak_Recorders.htm . For Rustrak chart paper I also noted http://www.guyot-graphco.com/industri.htm . 73, Bob, N1VQR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Bill Smitherman Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 11:51 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Avaliability of chart paper for Fluke Monotronics 207 to the group I know I am going back in time and in technology, but I would like to get my old Fluke Monotronics 207 Phase Tracker up and running again on WWVB. Can anyone advise on a source of the Chart Paper for the Rustrack Chart Recorder found in this receiver. Years ago no problem to find. Surely someone on the group is still using the old 207, now days. Thanks for any leads phone numbers or sources for this strip chart paper. Bill Smitherman KD4AF[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Non-impedance matched antenna cables
I know you guys like to drill holes through hairs, but As I follow the discussions on merits of 50/75 ohm cable, cable length changing with ambient temperature, tuning cable to a fraction of wavelength, power supply noise etc. Does not the weakest link determine it's best accuracy? If so, the receiver/electronics and internal programming seems to be the weakest link and all these small nano/pico second variables discussed seems moot, at least with unit in question. If your receiver for example computes your location with a rather large error in lat/lon or altitude, that error I would think would be greater than the sum of all the small factors/errors being discussed. I have found, at least with the Thunderbolt receivers I have used, they are rather sloppy in it's location fix but even worse in it's altitude fix. As I understand it, each foot of distance is a little over a nanosecond in delay so would not position/altitude accuracy be the biggest variable, not to mention the proper calculation and offset of antenna cable attenuation/length. I would be curious how the older Thunderbolt units compares to a newer technology receiver/timebase in the real world. Just a thought ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Non-impedance matched antenna cables
- Original Message - From: Bruce Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 2:16 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Non-impedance matched antenna cables phil wrote: I know you guys like to drill holes through hairs, but As I follow the discussions on merits of 50/75 ohm cable, cable length changing with ambient temperature, tuning cable to a fraction of wavelength, power supply noise etc. Does not the weakest link determine it's best accuracy? If so, the receiver/electronics and internal programming seems to be the weakest link and all these small nano/pico second variables discussed seems moot, at least with unit in question. If your receiver for example computes your location with a rather large error in lat/lon or altitude, that error I would think would be greater than the sum of all the small factors/errors being discussed. I have found, at least with the Thunderbolt receivers I have used, they are rather sloppy in it's location fix but even worse in it's altitude fix. All GPS receivers have larger height errors than latitude and longitude errors. As I understand it, each foot of distance is a little over a nanosecond in delay so would not position/altitude accuracy be the biggest variable, not to mention the proper calculation and offset of antenna cable attenuation/length. I would be curious how the older Thunderbolt units compares to a newer technology receiver/timebase in the real world. Just a thought Read the posted paper. The error in determining the position using modulation on the GPS carrier can be much larger than the cable delay variations. The effect will also depend on the correlator type used. Also for those that have better receivers like the M12+T, MI2M T etc, every last nanosecond of variation matters. The more that is known about cable instabilities etc, the better chance one has of actually realising the potential performance of a receiver. There is no point in using impedance transformers until the actual impedance of the receiver and antenna are known. Bruce Bruce, I can appreciate the implication of all these small variables and the wanting to better every last nanosecond of variation My comment was, at least as I see it, only with a more expensive receiver and better timebase will these smaller variables be significantly relevant. Since the discussion revolved around the Thunderbolt receiver, I would think it's internal errors are far greater than the expansion of the antenna cable or cable impedance. Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt EOL
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com; time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 3:49 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt EOL While the mini-T is obviously not the same, the -E version many be nothing more than a RoHS compliant version of the original. I've seen many changes to devices/assemblies in the past year or two, but when the smoke clears it's nothing but a RoHS-related change. In fact, in many cases, there is no actual change in the device at all. It was always compliant but marketing wanted a *RoHS* part number. It's been driving me crazy... -Dave -- Original message -- From: Richard W. Solomon [EMAIL PROTECTED] It seems the T-Bolt is being replaced with a newer version. I wonder which ones we will be getting ?? http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-383748/TBolt%20EOL.pdf 73, Dick, W1KSZ Dave, They are getting the old version. Among the older units the only difference is firmware revisions. They are getting the board only version that requires +12, -12 +5 volts, not the 24 volt version you see on the larger Trimble photo of the complete unit. Apparently the E is an altogether different unit. Notice the antenna connection is lower than the other connectors. I would bet the newer unit has a stand-alone receiver in it. Also note it receives 12 satellites compared to 8 on the older version. Most other specs are about the same, performance wise. The old units have the receiver/timebase and associated electronics on a single board, all the coax terminals are in a line. The lower half of the unit in the Trimble photo has a 24 volt DC to +12, -12, +5 volt converter. The group purchased the older version of the board only in a separate smaller case. It requires +12, -12 +5 volt of which they have located a separate power supply for. == Trimble Thunderbolt ET GPS Discipline Clock Performance Specifications General: L1 frequency, CA/code (SPS) 12-channel continuous tracking receiver Update rate: 1 Hz 1 PPS accuracy UTC 20 nanoseconds (one sigma) 10 MHz accuracy 1.16 x 10 -12 one average) 10 MHz stability See graph on Trimble data sheet Harmonic level -40 dBc max Spurious -70 dBc max Phase noise: 10 Hz -120 dBc/Hz 100 Hz -135 dBc/Hz 1 kHz -135 dBc/Hz 10 kHz -145 dBc/Hz 100 kHz -145 dBc/Hz Holdover ±1 microsecond over 2 hours with a maximum ±15°C temperature change == Trimble Thunderbolt OLD Version Performance Specifications: General: L1 frequency, CA/ code (SPS), 8-channel, continuous tracking receiver Update rate: 1 Hz PPS accuracy: UTC 20 nanoseconds (one sigma) 10 MHz accuracy: 1.16 x 10E-12 (one day average) Interface Specifications: Prime Power: +24V and return using DC to DC power supply (19V-34V) Board uses +12V, -12V, +5V and GND Power consumption 15 watts (cold), 10 watts steady state Serial Interface: RS-232 through a DB-9 connector Serial protocoll: Trimble Standard Interface Protocol (TSIP) binary protocol at 9600, 8-None-1 Newer E Version Data Sheet: http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-383329/022542-010B_Thunderbolt-E_DS_0807.pdf Newer E Version Manual: http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-388613/ThunderboltE_UG_1B.pdf Older Version Data Sheet: http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-10015/ Older Version Manual: http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-10001/ThunderBoltBook2003.pdf ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt EOL
The T-E datasheet lists timing accuracy at +/-15nS (1 sigma), where did you get the spec that says 20? Also, the antenna connector on the T-E is a BNC, the old T has an F connector. Didier KO4BB That data sheet does say 15. Some say 20 ! Perhaps ??? good question. http://www.stepgps.com/docs/Thunderbolt-E_%20Data%20Sheet.pdf F. BNC, rather minor unless you are looking for an identical drop-in replacement. I was referring to the guts as opposed to minor details. The unit they are getting is an altogether different unit from the E and they are getting the board only and in a case about half size to that trimble photo. It's a good unit, at least I've been happy with them. I'm sure you can always do better though. Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Change to Earths rotation rate due to Chinese earthquake
- Original Message - From: John E Burgar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 12:26 AM Subject: [time-nuts] Change to Earths rotation rate due to Chinese earthquake Have any of your members seen any data regarding a change to the earths rotation rate due to the recent Chinese earthquake? I seem to recall that the Banda Aceh earthquake in December a few years ago had a measurable impact on the rotation rate. Many regards to the many extremely knowledgeable members of this group, John B. I believe the December quake you reference is the 8.4-magnitude 2004 Indonesian earthquake It supposedly changed the earths length of day: -2.676 microseconds or the day became shorter by 0.027 seconds. As I understand it, the length of the day can be measured with an accuracy of about 20 microseconds. What was affected was the so-called Chandler Wobble. Some believe it is the cause of the earthquakes rather than the effect. This is an extremely interesting subject. I haven't seen anything on the present quake but it usually takes a while for anything to be published. You might find more searching Chandler Wobble Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Another Trimble Tbolt question....
From: Darrell Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 3:19 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Another Trimble Tbolt question More guessing. I wonder if the altitude you see is from the difference between Mean Sea Level and Height Above Ellipsoid? This document has a map on page 7 - http://www.avionicswest.com/PDFiles/alt2.pdf Still no expert Darrell - Original Message - From: Michael Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 5:49 AM Subject: [time-nuts] Another Trimble Tbolt question Hello, All-- Thanks to the collective savvy of this list and the patient assistance of Ken Winterling wa2lbi I was finally able to get my Tbolt to stop requiring me to configure the COM-4 channel every time I ran the monitoring software. So-- I had such good luck with that question, I'm going to pester the group with one more Tbolt question: In the Position area of the Tbolt monitoring display my altitude is given as 1.4 meters. The USGS topo map and a recent survey both say that the ground level at my house is 84 feet above MSL. The antenna for the T-bolt is on the top of my house 19 feet above the ground. If I open SETUP / POSITION and SET ACCURATE POSITION to, say: 28 meters and enter that value, the indicated altitude changes to 28 meters, but the next day or so, I always find that it has reverted to 1.4 meters. Admittedly, having a (relatively) accurate altitude display is of minor importance to me since my primary reason for having the Tbolt is for a decent 10MHz reference. However, as a matter of principle it would be nice to have the altitude display be a little closer! Any suggestions as to how to get the Tbolt to display a more correct altitude? Thanks! Mike Baker WA4HFR Micanopy, FL For what it's worth, I have two of these units and they are horrible on altitude but otherwise seem to be ok. Just a thought ! Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Setting Trimble Thunderbolt Stored Position
http://www.trimble.com/tmg_thunderbolt_ts.asp?Nav=Collection-2356 Link to the manual (ThunderBoltBook2003.pdf about 1 meg in size) There is a section of the manual that explains and guides you through the monitor program. Phil - Original Message - From: Ken Winterling [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 5:35 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting Trimble Thunderbolt Stored Position DR, Thanks. I already found that pull down menu but can't find an explanation of the multiple buttons. It looks like you wait until the survey completes then simply copy the lat/long, etc info from the main screen to the corresponding fields in the pull down then press set accurate. I just want to understand all of the options. Ken, WA2LBI On Feb 6, 2008 5:16 PM, Dan Rae [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ken Winterling wrote: Greetings, I am new to using a GPSDO and have recently obtained a Trimble Thunderbolt. It is up and running and I am using TBOLTMON to monitor its operation. Everything is green except the stored position minor alarm. You'll need that Ken if you ever turn it off, otherwise it will start another survey. It's in one of the pull down menus. Setup / Position / Set accurate position would be the best guess. I think it took me a couple of tries to find it, but you'll see it go green when you get it right. From then on it will stay in eeprom, if you do turn it off. The manual is not a lot of help, it just says the program is highly intuitive! I guess it is :^) dr ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: Hewlett Packard paint codes
Yes that works on the base color (light green), but when it comes to printing the graphics on the coated foil I need the RGB values, which they don't even know what that is. Going to try a printer (they know what color is) and see if they use their colorimeter to get the RGB values. If you are doing this in Photoshop it's a simple task. First, load the image of the original scan. Then on your floating toolbar click the left color box (foreground color), that will open the color picker box. Put your mouse pointer over the unknown color in the image and left click. Just make sure you don't have the only web colors checked. That color picker box will then show the RGB values as well as the hex value. Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: Hewlett Packard paint codes
This assumes you have a calibrated scanner and a calibrated printer. I don't have an IT8.7 target or its equivalent to calibrate the scanner. Perhaps I should start there heck I'll just try and match it by eye. Jack Jack, even if you had the exact rgb value of the original color, and if you intend to duplicate it on an inkjet printer you would have to tweak it anyway. Printer colors differ by small amounts from brand to brand of ink and even with same brand in different batches. Within Photoshop you can use the replace color to tweak a given (single) color. Regardless of how you do it, you have to sample printer output and match (tweak), to even to calibrate the printer using calibration standards. This gets you very close unless you have a super cheap scanner and printer and even with cheap hardware this allows you to accomplish the intended results. Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] is there a best bet advanced hobbyist buildableGPSDOdesign?
On Dec 13, 2007 12:00 PM, Scott Burris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Continuing the design discussions, anyone have opinions about powering the HP 10811 oscillator? I'm thinking that you want voltage regulators that are pretty quiet so as to minimize jitter introduced via the power supply. To that end, I'm looking at a LT1761 for the +12v OSC voltage and an LT3080 for the 24v heater supply.. You might try ebay for a +24 / +12 volt switching supply, problem/s solved. I have bought them for as little as 3 bucks. Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] need recomendation for a portable 10mhz reference oscilator
- Original Message - From: Bruce Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 6:08 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] need recomendation for a portable 10mhz reference oscilator Magnus Danielson wrote: Why would it be very hard? For his purpose it should easy enought to measure the frequency shift which he would allow, and achieving the necessary shift in temperature to get the ball-park aspect should not be too hard to acheive in a home enviorment and a thermometer. I am sure the E1938A would pull it off. Talking about E1938A. Where can I find one??? Cheers, Magnus Hej Magnus The test sheet on a typical (sample size of 1) E1938A test sheet states among other things Max slope near 0.T, 0 mHz/degree. (ie tempco 1E-13/degree) So in practice, depending on what equipment is available, the measurement of the frequency change is likely to be extremely challenging. At best it may be possible to state that the frequency change is less than 1E-11 (substitute actual measurement resolution/accuracy limits). For an E1938A try bidding on one of the Australian sourced Z3815A's that keep popping up on ebay (however bids are relatively high). Bruce For those that wanted the HP hockey puck oscillator, one is one ebay now but is closing in hours. GPS Locked, 10 MHz Frequency Standard, HP Z3815A/E1938A http://search.ebay.com/330196691921 The man apparently had two of these units, the first one sold for 1725.00, this one is up to 1005.00 now. It would make a nice Christmas present ! ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Symmetricon 58534A manual / setup
- Original Message - From: Didier Juges [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Symmetricon 58534A manual / setup Sometimes, the answer comes from the most unexpected places: the 58534 data sheet (not sure there is a manual) is on the Symmetricom web site: http://ngn.symmetricom.com/products/Subsystems_Components/58534A.asp (it's on my web site too now) Didier KO4BB Didier, I Do appreciate that but that is just the data sheet. I need the pin-outs and cable configuration as well. I have the factory cable but without the manual I'm lost. It is my understanding it is available for free to download from Symmetricom if you have an account or you are a Symmetricom customer. Unfortunately I don't have an account, that's why I tried this board. I've scoured Google and the data sheet is as close as I have found. Many Thanks, Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Symmetricon 58534A manual / setup
Tom You are correct; it is a complete unit with a 1pps and RS422 output for time and setup/control. I wanted to try to use 3 of them in/for time stamps for triangulating lightning strike data. With a 100 ns timing accuracy I would think it may work for my application. The manual is available for free (download) from Symetricon if you have an account or are an existing customer. Unfortunately I have neither. Should no one in the time-nuts group help I'll go to Symmetricon next week and I'll be happy to share the manual with you. Don, Interesting on what you discovered on pin outs. I have some units with just wires out and two that came with RJ45's on the end. I'll compare wire colors and hope they match. Thanks for giving me a starting place with the wiring. They have a simple setup program for that series of units but again I don't have it. Protocol, who knows, I have heard it is a variation on nmea, but that remains to be seen. Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] OT email problem, this is the only contact I have still working
Hi Tim (swingbyte) The continuous sends continue even with computer off and ADSL unplugged. I've mailed ISP to see if they can sort it out. I'm getting continuous mail delivery failed: returning message to sender Sorry about all this. Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] PTS missing link
Hi The link to replace the broken one is http://www.k3pgp.org/pts160.htm Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] M100 manual
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY Just to let anyone interested know, I've uploaded an M100.pdf to Ko4BB.com. Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] M100.pdf
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY John It's probably still in the upload section Phil G4FXY ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] hp journal 1981 03
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY The complete article is available at http://www.hparchive.com/Journals/Low-Resolution/HPJ-1981-03-Low- Resolution.pdf (4.5 MB) http://www.hparchive.com/Journals/HPJ-1981-03.pdf (38.2 MB) previously referenced by /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] timing on ethernet
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY Hi I've been thinking (always a bad move), is the idea to use the ethernet clock to provide precise timing and the data to point to the waveform cycle. (Shades of gps here). Apparently 10Bt has a strong component at 20MHz and 100Bt has one at 125MHz. If the entire network could be locked to a master clock, say in one hub, how would the repeaters be locked? A modified hub presumably? I will continue reading and experimenting (wrecking!) on my home network. Phil G4FXY ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Timing on ethernet
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY I meant to add - the clock itself is extracted for use in the interface by a DPLL but I do not know how good it is. Should be fairly easy to measure. I will need to make a second independent network, I've already had my ear bent by other users while experimenting. Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] ethernet for timing
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY cont. The broadcast address 255.255.255.255 ip4 or whatever in ip6 could send the timestamp (one way) and the two way could be used for calibration. Now to try it out somehow. Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Some additional RTFG learnings
Hi John Ackermann N8UR wrote: snipped 3. In about 30 seconds, XO FAULT and NO GPS go off, ON comes on. So, the XO is definitely testing for the presence of the 10 MHz reference input signal, and becomes unhappy when it goes away. but only if crossover cable used? This is consistent with my findings of ignores 10MHz (no Rb) Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
[time-nuts] Thunderbolts are go
Add me in for one unit Cheers all Phil G4fxy ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
[time-nuts] Re; Lucent RFTG-m-XO
Finally found my notes (hint: look on both sides of the page!) 24V 410mA RS485 / 1PPS socket (F) pin 1 +ve going 1PPS ~4v pin 6 -ve going 1PPS ~4v pulses ~4mS wide data (same connector) pin 9 and 5 pin 9 and gnd works for serial input to a terminal 9600 8 N 1 my 15MHz was low to start with ~0.51Hz No Gps light did not go out until on frequency regardless of gps signal present or not data on pin 9 (5) :10020032f3ac52E109cc starts with a colon cc seems to be a checksum the first 2 changes to a 1 if gps ant disconnected and reconnected, at the same time the no gps led comes on the zero after the 1st 2 changes to 4 if their really is no gps the block 32...52 seems to be a count from last power up the E109 has been constant throughout all tests all corrections and explanations gratefully received Should I ask for any info / manuals for Adret 4101A Frequency Standard Receiver Adret 4110A Frequency Difference Multiplier Tracor 895AS Linear Phase / Time Comparator now or later? ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
[time-nuts] RFTG-m-XO
RFTG-m-XO KS-24019 L106B Date of Mfr 9910 Todays setup Antenna is Trimble pn 12960-00 which contains pn 16248-40 believed to have a gain 40dB. This is on a metal plate in the apex of a loft space. Approx 6 to 8 metres UR67 to a LNFA1X4-N distribution box. 1st on box ie suppling antenna power is Trimble Trimpack pn 16768-66, this also gives a rough idea that most things are working. 2nd item is RFTG unit (Radio Frequency Timing Generator OR Rugby For The Girls) 3rd item is a helical antenna to reradiate to a Garmin Etrex hand held receiver which, with DGPS, is claiming 1 metre accuracy. I suspect the RFTGs prefer a strong signal. I will experiment. The 15MHz output seems to wander about a little compared to a Sulzer oscillator. Comparing with a couple of rubidiums gives even more wander. 10 second count and parts in 10e12. GPIB to follow, ie when I can persuade windoze to work. RFTG fault light goes out when lock is established independent of any or if 10MHz input applied. 'No GPS' seems to depend on antenna current When I received the unit I decided to treat it as a black box, so I put it back together and did so. (The first thing to do with a new toy is to take it to pieces) Phil G4FXY ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
[time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO
Briefly: Leave it running for at least 24hrs. The 15MHz will slowly get on freq. Countup is available on 1pps socket. more when I have time ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
[time-nuts] Lucent RFTG-m-XO
I have one of these units and after various trial and error seem to have lock and working with stable 15MHz output. I will look up my notes and post more. (assuming I've got this right) ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
