Re: [time-nuts] CSAC purchase

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

I’m guessing there was a question to me that somehow got lost in the world of 
ones and zeros ….

My comment was in terms of temperature stability. The CSAC has a temp stability 
specification of +/-4x10^-10 over -10 to +70C. There are TCXO’s that will get 
below
5x10^-9 over that range and use far less power. There are OCXO’s that will get
to better temperature stability numbers over that range.  Neither one will do 
the long
term aging that a Rb will. 

Bob

> On Jan 22, 2018, at 3:49 PM, jimlux  wrote:
> 
> On 1/22/18 12:05 PM, Ronald Held wrote:
> 
>> Bob:
>>OCXO and TCXO are larger then the CSAC?  How much more power would
>> they need to get within a factor of ten to the 1.5s/1000 years?
>>  Ronald
> 
> 
> OCXO and TCXO are both available smaller than the CSAC (particularly tcxo).  
> I'm using a vectron EX-421 OCXO and it's about 1cm on a side, the OX205 is 
> about 1" square and maybe 0.60" tall.
> 
> TCXOs are available in "cellphone" form factors (e.g. tiny SMT packages)
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] CSAC purchase

[jimlux]

On 1/22/18 12:05 PM, Ronald Held wrote:



Bob:
OCXO and TCXO are larger then the CSAC?  How much more power would
they need to get within a factor of ten to the 1.5s/1000 years?
  Ronald



OCXO and TCXO are both available smaller than the CSAC (particularly 
tcxo).  I'm using a vectron EX-421 OCXO and it's about 1cm on a side, 
the OX205 is about 1" square and maybe 0.60" tall.


TCXOs are available in "cellphone" form factors (e.g. tiny SMT packages)

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Re: [time-nuts] CSAC purchase

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

For something portable, the good old RBXO approach might well be worth 
considering. 

Bob

> On Jan 22, 2018, at 3:05 PM, Ronald Held  wrote:
> 
> Magnus:
>   I wanted one since they were announced in 2005, AFAIR. Incorporated
> into a watch was my first choice, but that price is out of range.  A
> portable old cell phone size version  is next.
>  Ronald
> 
> 
> What exactly motivated specifically CSAC for you?
> 
> There might be other cheaper alternatives to your problem.
> 
> For me CSAC solves a problem within very specific set of parameters,
> where low power consumption is one of them. Depending on the actual
> details of the application a TCXO might be a better choice, or even some
> OCXOs.
> 
> It's not that I want to deny you the fun of toying with CSAC, I have
> three myself, but if you don't really need what it is good for, other
> choices might be better. Also, the one place for such advice is for sure
> this email list where a lot of experience is gathered and ready to share.
> 
> Cheers,
> Magnus
> 
> 
> Bob:
>   OCXO and TCXO are larger then the CSAC?  How much more power would
> they need to get within a factor of ten to the 1.5s/1000 years?
> Ronald
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Re: [time-nuts] CSAC purchase

[Ronald Held]

Magnus:
   I wanted one since they were announced in 2005, AFAIR. Incorporated
into a watch was my first choice, but that price is out of range.  A
portable old cell phone size version  is next.
  Ronald


What exactly motivated specifically CSAC for you?

 There might be other cheaper alternatives to your problem.

 For me CSAC solves a problem within very specific set of parameters,
 where low power consumption is one of them. Depending on the actual
 details of the application a TCXO might be a better choice, or even some
 OCXOs.

 It's not that I want to deny you the fun of toying with CSAC, I have
 three myself, but if you don't really need what it is good for, other
 choices might be better. Also, the one place for such advice is for sure
 this email list where a lot of experience is gathered and ready to share.

 Cheers,
 Magnus


Bob:
   OCXO and TCXO are larger then the CSAC?  How much more power would
they need to get within a factor of ten to the 1.5s/1000 years?
 Ronald
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Re: [time-nuts] CSAC purchase

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

The “compelling case” for the CSAC is the combination of low power and long 
term stability.
You can get OCXO’s that run less power. A TCXO that uses less power is trivial. 
Temperature 
stability wise, there are TCXO’s that get pretty close (= factor of 10) to 
overlapping with the CSAC. 
There is nothing out there that will do the 1 month stability at anything close 
to the same power level. 
The CSAC is unique in that respect. Can you find most of this on eBay? Well, 
wait a decade or two …..

As a source for a radio project, the CSAC *really* needs a cleanup oscillator. 
That’s not a knock on
the part. The cleanup oscillator may well use more power than the entire CSAC. 
Let those who 
really need it add it on to their systems. 

Bob

> On Jan 21, 2018, at 6:26 PM, Magnus Danielson <mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org> 
> wrote:
> 
> Ronald,
> 
> What exactly motivated specifically CSAC for you?
> 
> There might be other cheaper alternatives to your problem.
> 
> For me CSAC solves a problem within very specific set of parameters,
> where low powerconsumption is one of them. Depending on the actual
> details of the application a TCXO might be a better choice, or even some
> OCXOs.
> 
> It's not that I want to deny you the fun of toying with CSAC, I have
> three myself, but if you don't really need what it is good for, other
> choices might be better. Also, the one place for such advice is for sure
> this email list where a lot of experience is gathered and ready to share.
> 
> Cheers,
> Magnus
> 
> On 01/22/2018 12:09 AM, Ronald Held wrote:
>> Thanks for all the information. Have not kept up with the price, but
>> ~$6K  is too much to afford right now  By the time I can I hope it
>> doesn't go up .
>> 
>>Ronald
>> 
>> Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2018 17:50:48 -0800
>> From: jimlux <jim...@earthlink.net>
>> To: time-nuts@febo.com
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] CSAC purchase
>> Message-ID: <5b9271c4-734d-e8e0-f092-a143126c2...@earthlink.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>> 
>> On 1/20/18 5:05 PM, Ronald Held wrote:
>>> I am thinking of buying a CSAC plus evaluation board.
>>> Eventually I might want to make it portable. Any suggestions including
>>> where to buy it?
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> MicroSemi is the manufacturer - Find a distributor and order it.
>> 
>> For instance, Digikey has the CSAC ($5312.50) and the eval board ($928.75)
>> 
>> portable isn't a problem - just run it off batteries.
>> 
>> It's pretty easy to hook up - power, 1pps in and out and 10 MHz out
>> (they have versions that put out 5, 10.24, and 16.384 MHz too).
>> 
>> A serial port to control the device
>> 
>> The eval board has SMA connectors, a sub-d for the serial port, and
>> comes with a wall wart to run it.
>> 
>> Download the Microsemi CSAC UserGuide for more info
>> 
>> you can fool with the disciplining algorithm, etc.
>> It's a low power device compared to a OCXO (<120mW)
>> 
>> They're a pretty nifty device, even if the price more than tripled in
>> the last couple years.
>> 
>> 
>> Jackson Labs makes some integrated systems using CSAC, I believe.
>> ___
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>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] CSAC purchase

[Magnus Danielson]

Ronald,

What exactly motivated specifically CSAC for you?

There might be other cheaper alternatives to your problem.

For me CSAC solves a problem within very specific set of parameters,
where low powerconsumption is one of them. Depending on the actual
details of the application a TCXO might be a better choice, or even some
OCXOs.

It's not that I want to deny you the fun of toying with CSAC, I have
three myself, but if you don't really need what it is good for, other
choices might be better. Also, the one place for such advice is for sure
this email list where a lot of experience is gathered and ready to share.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 01/22/2018 12:09 AM, Ronald Held wrote:
> Thanks for all the information. Have not kept up with the price, but
> ~$6K  is too much to afford right now  By the time I can I hope it
> doesn't go up .
> 
> Ronald
> 
> Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2018 17:50:48 -0800
> From: jimlux <jim...@earthlink.net>
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] CSAC purchase
> Message-ID: <5b9271c4-734d-e8e0-f092-a143126c2...@earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
> On 1/20/18 5:05 PM, Ronald Held wrote:
>> I am thinking of buying a CSAC plus evaluation board.
>> Eventually I might want to make it portable. Any suggestions including
>> where to buy it?
>>
> 
> 
> MicroSemi is the manufacturer - Find a distributor and order it.
> 
> For instance, Digikey has the CSAC ($5312.50) and the eval board ($928.75)
> 
> portable isn't a problem - just run it off batteries.
> 
> It's pretty easy to hook up - power, 1pps in and out and 10 MHz out
> (they have versions that put out 5, 10.24, and 16.384 MHz too).
> 
> A serial port to control the device
> 
> The eval board has SMA connectors, a sub-d for the serial port, and
> comes with a wall wart to run it.
> 
> Download the Microsemi CSAC UserGuide for more info
> 
> you can fool with the disciplining algorithm, etc.
> It's a low power device compared to a OCXO (<120mW)
> 
> They're a pretty nifty device, even if the price more than tripled in
> the last couple years.
> 
> 
> Jackson Labs makes some integrated systems using CSAC, I believe.
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] CSAC purchase

[Ronald Held]

Thanks for all the information. Have not kept up with the price, but
~$6K  is too much to afford right now  By the time I can I hope it
doesn't go up .

Ronald

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2018 17:50:48 -0800
From: jimlux <jim...@earthlink.net>
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] CSAC purchase
Message-ID: <5b9271c4-734d-e8e0-f092-a143126c2...@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

On 1/20/18 5:05 PM, Ronald Held wrote:
> I am thinking of buying a CSAC plus evaluation board.
> Eventually I might want to make it portable. Any suggestions including
> where to buy it?
>


MicroSemi is the manufacturer - Find a distributor and order it.

For instance, Digikey has the CSAC ($5312.50) and the eval board ($928.75)

portable isn't a problem - just run it off batteries.

It's pretty easy to hook up - power, 1pps in and out and 10 MHz out
(they have versions that put out 5, 10.24, and 16.384 MHz too).

A serial port to control the device

The eval board has SMA connectors, a sub-d for the serial port, and
comes with a wall wart to run it.

Download the Microsemi CSAC UserGuide for more info

you can fool with the disciplining algorithm, etc.
It's a low power device compared to a OCXO (<120mW)

They're a pretty nifty device, even if the price more than tripled in
the last couple years.


Jackson Labs makes some integrated systems using CSAC, I believe.
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Re: [time-nuts] CSAC purchase

[jimlux]

On 1/20/18 5:05 PM, Ronald Held wrote:

I am thinking of buying a CSAC plus evaluation board.
Eventually I might want to make it portable. Any suggestions including
where to buy it?




MicroSemi is the manufacturer - Find a distributor and order it.

For instance, Digikey has the CSAC ($5312.50) and the eval board ($928.75)

portable isn't a problem - just run it off batteries.

It's pretty easy to hook up - power, 1pps in and out and 10 MHz out 
(they have versions that put out 5, 10.24, and 16.384 MHz too).


A serial port to control the device

The eval board has SMA connectors, a sub-d for the serial port, and 
comes with a wall wart to run it.


Download the Microsemi CSAC UserGuide for more info

you can fool with the disciplining algorithm, etc.
It's a low power device compared to a OCXO (<120mW)

They're a pretty nifty device, even if the price more than tripled in 
the last couple years.



Jackson Labs makes some integrated systems using CSAC, I believe.


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[time-nuts] CSAC purchase

[Ronald Held]

I am thinking of buying a CSAC plus evaluation board.
Eventually I might want to make it portable. Any suggestions including
where to buy it?
   Ronald
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