Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project
At 06:27 PM 7/4/2014, Hal Murray wrote: ... we have no requirement for that level of stability on the MW broadcasts. How stable are they? That varies greatly from station to station depending upon what transmitter they are running. Note also that compliance with the 20 Hz accuracy requirement varies so you would only want to use stations owned by companies with a good record of compliance with Part 73. Dale H. Cook, Contract Engineer, Roanoke/Lynchburg, VA http://plymouthcolony.net/starcityeng/index.html ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project
As stated AM stations in US must maintain 20 Hz accuracy. Most are well within that tolerance. I have measured many AM station's frequency as a function of my employment before retirement. Now comes HD radio. While the merits of HD AM radio are very much open to debate, one benefit is that the equipment for HD is GPS locked. If you can find an HD AM station you can probably bet they are very close to being on frequency. The ones I have measured have been right on and push the limits of my test equipment. Al, retired, mostly AKA k9si Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2014 06:20:36 -0400 From: Dale H. Cook starc...@plymouthcolony.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project At 06:27 PM 7/4/2014, Hal Murray wrote: ... we have no requirement for that level of stability on the MW broadcasts. How stable are they? That varies greatly from station to station depending upon what transmitter they are running. Note also that compliance with the 20 Hz accuracy requirement varies so you would only want to use stations owned by companies with a good record of compliance with Part 73. Dale H. Cook, Contract Engineer, Roanoke/Lynchburg, VA http://plymouthcolony.net/starcityeng/index.html ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project
In the seventies I did for some friends that had FCC First class licenses a counter that on the input had three J/K F/F's to subtract the IF from the LO. They modified receivers including running the IF in to saturation and they certified stations without going there.. I think measurements had to be done on a monthly basis. Since they where also HAM's they also used them on frequency contests. Bert Kehren In a message dated 7/5/2014 12:56:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, alw.k...@gmail.com writes: As stated AM stations in US must maintain 20 Hz accuracy. Most are well within that tolerance. I have measured many AM station's frequency as a function of my employment before retirement. Now comes HD radio. While the merits of HD AM radio are very much open to debate, one benefit is that the equipment for HD is GPS locked. If you can find an HD AM station you can probably bet they are very close to being on frequency. The ones I have measured have been right on and push the limits of my test equipment. Al, retired, mostly AKA k9si Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2014 06:20:36 -0400 From: Dale H. Cook starc...@plymouthcolony.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project At 06:27 PM 7/4/2014, Hal Murray wrote: ... we have no requirement for that level of stability on the MW broadcasts. How stable are they? That varies greatly from station to station depending upon what transmitter they are running. Note also that compliance with the 20 Hz accuracy requirement varies so you would only want to use stations owned by companies with a good record of compliance with Part 73. Dale H. Cook, Contract Engineer, Roanoke/Lynchburg, VA http://plymouthcolony.net/starcityeng/index.html ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project
I am sure there are others on list who follow Elektor Magazine and even perhaps their forums but there are likely many that do not. I stumbled across this interesting frequency standard project and thought others might also be interested: http://www.elektor-labs.com/project/low-cost-frequency-standard-disciplined-by-france-inter.14000.html A bit of light reading and nothing really new to the old hands but it seems that person is well on the way to being a time / frequency nut if not already there. Cheers, Graham ve3gtc This electronic message, as well as any transmitted files included in the electronic message, may contain privileged or confidential information and is intended solely for the use of the individual(s) or entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this electronic message in error please notify the sender immediately and delete the electronic message. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the electronic message is strictly forbidden. NAV CANADA accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus and/or other malicious code transmitted by this electronic communication. Le pr?sent message ?lectronique et tout fichier qui peut y ?tre joint peuvent contenir des renseignements privil?gi?s ou confidentiels destin?s ? l'usage exclusif des personnes ou des organismes ? qui ils s'adressent. Si vous avez re?u ce message ?lectronique par erreur, veuillez en informer l'exp?diteur imm?diatement et supprimez le. Toute reproduction, divulgation ou distribution du pr?sent message ?lectronique est strictement interdite. NAV CANADA n'assume aucune responsabilit? en cas de dommage caus? par tout virus ou autre programme malveillant transmis par ce message ?lectronique. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project
An interesting article much like one Bert sent me circa 1989 quite recently. The key to these systems is that the transmitters have very good references. In the US at least we have no requirement for that level of stability on the MW broadcasts. Though evidently some stations are quite good. I think I have a list some place have to re-look. Curious can you see a schematic or must you subscribe... It is a nicely written article. I used to buy elctor in the book stores when it was available. Thanks Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 8:11 AM, Collins, Graham coll...@navcanada.ca wrote: I am sure there are others on list who follow Elektor Magazine and even perhaps their forums but there are likely many that do not. I stumbled across this interesting frequency standard project and thought others might also be interested: http://www.elektor-labs.com/project/low-cost-frequency-standard-disciplined-by-france-inter.14000.html A bit of light reading and nothing really new to the old hands but it seems that person is well on the way to being a time / frequency nut if not already there. Cheers, Graham ve3gtc This electronic message, as well as any transmitted files included in the electronic message, may contain privileged or confidential information and is intended solely for the use of the individual(s) or entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this electronic message in error please notify the sender immediately and delete the electronic message. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the electronic message is strictly forbidden. NAV CANADA accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus and/or other malicious code transmitted by this electronic communication. Le pr?sent message ?lectronique et tout fichier qui peut y ?tre joint peuvent contenir des renseignements privil?gi?s ou confidentiels destin?s ? l'usage exclusif des personnes ou des organismes ? qui ils s'adressent. Si vous avez re?u ce message ?lectronique par erreur, veuillez en informer l'exp?diteur imm?diatement et supprimez le. Toute reproduction, divulgation ou distribution du pr?sent message ?lectronique est strictement interdite. NAV CANADA n'assume aucune responsabilit? en cas de dommage caus? par tout virus ou autre programme malveillant transmis par ce message ?lectronique. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project
paulsw...@gmail.com said: The key to these systems is that the transmitters have very good references. In the US at least we have no requirement for that level of stability on the MW broadcasts. Though evidently some stations are quite good. I think I have a list some place have to re-look. How stable are they? Could they provide a good regional reference if somebody with a good setup would measure several stations and publish the results? How often would you have to measure? How do you measure the frequency of an AM or FM station? Wait for silence and process it like CW? Any suggestions for a receiver (or whatever) that would be appropriate for that sort of project? I assume the main requirements are an external freq in and a serial/USB port to adjust the knobs. -- Ages ago, I remember seeing a small booklet (20 pages?) from NBS describing their setup with HP that was using NBC's atomic clock for time distribution. HP's part was to run the west coast calibration to get the delay over phone lines from the east coast to the west coast. Has anybody seen a copy of that booklet online? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project
You have to log in to see all the files for the project. I am not a member so I couldn't log in. Seems it is a pay to be a member sort of thing but joining as a member gets you a subscription too. Interesting business model. I have been a fan of Elektor for as long as I can remember and I will buy several issues a year when I see them on the local news stand. cheers, Graham ve3gtc On 04/07/14 17:21, paul swed wrote: An interesting article much like one Bert sent me circa 1989 quite recently. The key to these systems is that the transmitters have very good references. In the US at least we have no requirement for that level of stability on the MW broadcasts. Though evidently some stations are quite good. I think I have a list some place have to re-look. Curious can you see a schematic or must you subscribe... It is a nicely written article. I used to buy elctor in the book stores when it was available. Thanks Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 8:11 AM, Collins, Graham coll...@navcanada.ca wrote: I am sure there are others on list who follow Elektor Magazine and even perhaps their forums but there are likely many that do not. I stumbled across this interesting frequency standard project and thought others might also be interested: http://www.elektor-labs.com/project/low-cost-frequency-standard-disciplined-by-france-inter.14000.html A bit of light reading and nothing really new to the old hands but it seems that person is well on the way to being a time / frequency nut if not already there. Cheers, Graham ve3gtc ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project
there was an article in the January 2012issue of the elektor DCF77 locked reference, the DCF77 has very similar modulation format as the new modultion format of the WWVB 73 KJ6UHN Alex On 7/4/2014 2:21 PM, paul swed wrote: An interesting article much like one Bert sent me circa 1989 quite recently. The key to these systems is that the transmitters have very good references. In the US at least we have no requirement for that level of stability on the MW broadcasts. Though evidently some stations are quite good. I think I have a list some place have to re-look. Curious can you see a schematic or must you subscribe... It is a nicely written article. I used to buy elctor in the book stores when it was available. Thanks Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 8:11 AM, Collins, Graham coll...@navcanada.ca wrote: I am sure there are others on list who follow Elektor Magazine and even perhaps their forums but there are likely many that do not. I stumbled across this interesting frequency standard project and thought others might also be interested: http://www.elektor-labs.com/project/low-cost-frequency-standard-disciplined-by-france-inter.14000.html A bit of light reading and nothing really new to the old hands but it seems that person is well on the way to being a time / frequency nut if not already there. Cheers, Graham ve3gtc This electronic message, as well as any transmitted files included in the electronic message, may contain privileged or confidential information and is intended solely for the use of the individual(s) or entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this electronic message in error please notify the sender immediately and delete the electronic message. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the electronic message is strictly forbidden. NAV CANADA accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus and/or other malicious code transmitted by this electronic communication. Le pr?sent message ?lectronique et tout fichier qui peut y ?tre joint peuvent contenir des renseignements privil?gi?s ou confidentiels destin?s ? l'usage exclusif des personnes ou des organismes ? qui ils s'adressent. Si vous avez re?u ce message ?lectronique par erreur, veuillez en informer l'exp?diteur imm?diatement et supprimez le. Toute reproduction, divulgation ou distribution du pr?sent message ?lectronique est strictement interdite. NAV CANADA n'assume aucune responsabilit? en cas de dommage caus? par tout virus ou autre programme malveillant transmis par ce message ?lectronique. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project
for an AM station is strait forward at first use a narrow filter to make sure that you have just one station and feed the filter out put into a limiter the output of the limiter will be the carrier. 73 KJ6UHN Alex On 7/4/2014 3:27 PM, Hal Murray wrote: paulsw...@gmail.com said: The key to these systems is that the transmitters have very good references. In the US at least we have no requirement for that level of stability on the MW broadcasts. Though evidently some stations are quite good. I think I have a list some place have to re-look. How stable are they? Could they provide a good regional reference if somebody with a good setup would measure several stations and publish the results? How often would you have to measure? How do you measure the frequency of an AM or FM station? Wait for silence and process it like CW? Any suggestions for a receiver (or whatever) that would be appropriate for that sort of project? I assume the main requirements are an external freq in and a serial/USB port to adjust the knobs. -- Ages ago, I remember seeing a small booklet (20 pages?) from NBS describing their setup with HP that was using NBC's atomic clock for time distribution. HP's part was to run the west coast calibration to get the delay over phone lines from the east coast to the west coast. Has anybody seen a copy of that booklet online? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project
On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 5:27 PM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: paulsw...@gmail.com said: The key to these systems is that the transmitters have very good references. In the US at least we have no requirement for that level of stability on the MW broadcasts. Though evidently some stations are quite good. I think I have a list some place have to re-look. How stable are they? Could they provide a good regional reference if somebody with a good setup would measure several stations and publish the results? How often would you have to measure? How do you measure the frequency of an AM or FM station? Wait for silence and process it like CW? Any suggestions for a receiver (or whatever) that would be appropriate for that sort of project? I assume the main requirements are an external freq in and a serial/USB port to adjust the knobs. You might want to go talk to the FMT guys as they do testing against some of the MW stations and know which ones have high-accuracy references. -- Brian Lloyd Lloyd Aviation 706 Flightline Drive Spring Branch, TX 78070 br...@lloyd.com +1.916.877.5067 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project
Details of the DCF77 project, including source code, can be seen without an Elektor subscription / membership. The article's author has specifics posted at http://www.marvellconsultants.com/DCF Bob LaJeunesse From: Alexander Pummer alex...@ieee.org To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, July 4, 2014 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project there was an article in the January 2012issue of the elektor DCF77 locked reference, the DCF77 has very similar modulation format as the new modultion format of the WWVB 73 KJ6UHN Alex ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project
The best way to measure the frequency of an AM station is to first pass it through a Crystal filter to strip off the modulation sidebands. After that limiting is usually not necessary. You can do that in either TRF mode, or in the IF of a superhet with a synthesized local oscillator. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Alexander Pummer alex...@ieee.org To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 5:59 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project for an AM station is strait forward at first use a narrow filter to make sure that you have just one station and feed the filter out put into a limiter the output of the limiter will be the carrier. 73 KJ6UHN Alex On 7/4/2014 3:27 PM, Hal Murray wrote: paulsw...@gmail.com said: The key to these systems is that the transmitters have very good references. In the US at least we have no requirement for that level of stability on the MW broadcasts. Though evidently some stations are quite good. I think I have a list some place have to re-look. How stable are they? Could they provide a good regional reference if somebody with a good setup would measure several stations and publish the results? How often would you have to measure? How do you measure the frequency of an AM or FM station? Wait for silence and process it like CW? Any suggestions for a receiver (or whatever) that would be appropriate for that sort of project? I assume the main requirements are an external freq in and a serial/USB port to adjust the knobs. -- Ages ago, I remember seeing a small booklet (20 pages?) from NBS describing their setup with HP that was using NBC's atomic clock for time distribution. HP's part was to run the west coast calibration to get the delay over phone lines from the east coast to the west coast. Has anybody seen a copy of that booklet online? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project
That's an interesting looking PC board but the receiver schematic link is dead. The front page keeps coming back up. I'm going to bookmark the page anyway with the hope that he will fix the link in time. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. - Original Message - From: Robert LaJeunesse rlajeune...@sbcglobal.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 7:53 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project Details of the DCF77 project, including source code, can be seen without an Elektor subscription / membership. The article's author has specifics posted at http://www.marvellconsultants.com/DCF Bob LaJeunesse From: Alexander Pummer alex...@ieee.org To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, July 4, 2014 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project there was an article in the January 2012issue of the elektor DCF77 locked reference, the DCF77 has very similar modulation format as the new modultion format of the WWVB 73 KJ6UHN Alex ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project
Never mind. It wouldn't work in Fire Fox but it did work in MS IE8. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Robert LaJeunesse rlajeune...@sbcglobal.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 7:53 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project Details of the DCF77 project, including source code, can be seen without an Elektor subscription / membership. The article's author has specifics posted at http://www.marvellconsultants.com/DCF Bob LaJeunesse From: Alexander Pummer alex...@ieee.org To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, July 4, 2014 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project there was an article in the January 2012issue of the elektor DCF77 locked reference, the DCF77 has very similar modulation format as the new modultion format of the WWVB 73 KJ6UHN Alex ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project
I don't have any problem to get the schematic, everything is accessable. regards Arnold, DK2WT Am 05.07.2014 05:52, schrieb Max Robinson: That's an interesting looking PC board but the receiver schematic link is dead. The front page keeps coming back up. I'm going to bookmark the page anyway with the hope that he will fix the link in time. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. - Original Message - From: Robert LaJeunesse rlajeune...@sbcglobal.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 7:53 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project Details of the DCF77 project, including source code, can be seen without an Elektor subscription / membership. The article's author has specifics posted at http://www.marvellconsultants.com/DCF Bob LaJeunesse From: Alexander Pummer alex...@ieee.org To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, July 4, 2014 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project there was an article in the January 2012issue of the elektor DCF77 locked reference, the DCF77 has very similar modulation format as the new modultion format of the WWVB 73 KJ6UHN Alex ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
