[time-nuts] Lightning Strike Site, Latency of AS3935 IRQ output
Alan, Well, you shamed me into actually setting it up and measuring the IRQ delay. Amazingly, the delay varies from 25 to 110 milliseconds, depending upon what type of triggering is involved. I did the test using their lightning simulator and measuring the delay between the magnetic pulse the simulator creates and switching of the IRQ line. Makes you wonder what a little processor could possibly be doing for a whole tenth of a second. Tom Bales Message: 3 Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 00:34:49 +0100 From: Alan Melia alan.me...@btinternet.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightning Strike Site (Jim Lux) Message-ID: EF06D912BDF74BE6BE916C3088B7F68B@gnat Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Come on fellas it can't be that difficult to input a pulse to the chip and measure the prop delay to the INT pin this is timenuts after all :-)) Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 12:08 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightning Strike Site (Jim Lux) On 9/9/13 3:52 PM, Mark Sims wrote: The AS3935 has an INT output pin that signals a detection. You could monitor that. The AS3935 is based upon an internal DSP processing the receiver output. No telling how long between when the strike occurs and when INT is activated. I'd send a nice note to the folks in Austria who make the part and ask them. I suspect, also, that you might be able to figure out some other lightning sensor electronics: the Boltek unit wasn't all that complex, looking at the PC board, but I didn't have a schematic. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightning Strike Site, Latency of AS3935 IRQ output
:-)) sorry Tom I couln't resist the dig but it looks like the result was interesting and a little unexpected ! its always better to measure it yourself, where possible, than rely on datasheets which can sometimes be quite imaginative Well done Alan - Original Message - From: Tom Bales t...@starhouse.org To: time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 6:21 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Lightning Strike Site, Latency of AS3935 IRQ output Alan, Well, you shamed me into actually setting it up and measuring the IRQ delay. Amazingly, the delay varies from 25 to 110 milliseconds, depending upon what type of triggering is involved. I did the test using their lightning simulator and measuring the delay between the magnetic pulse the simulator creates and switching of the IRQ line. Makes you wonder what a little processor could possibly be doing for a whole tenth of a second. Tom Bales Message: 3 Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 00:34:49 +0100 From: Alan Melia alan.me...@btinternet.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightning Strike Site (Jim Lux) Message-ID: EF06D912BDF74BE6BE916C3088B7F68B@gnat Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Come on fellas it can't be that difficult to input a pulse to the chip and measure the prop delay to the INT pin this is timenuts after all :-)) Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 12:08 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightning Strike Site (Jim Lux) On 9/9/13 3:52 PM, Mark Sims wrote: The AS3935 has an INT output pin that signals a detection. You could monitor that. The AS3935 is based upon an internal DSP processing the receiver output. No telling how long between when the strike occurs and when INT is activated. I'd send a nice note to the folks in Austria who make the part and ask them. I suspect, also, that you might be able to figure out some other lightning sensor electronics: the Boltek unit wasn't all that complex, looking at the PC board, but I didn't have a schematic. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Lightning Strike Site, Latency of AS3935 IRQ output
The AS3935 chip has a DSP on it that is doing a lot of statistical analysis. It only draws a few microamps, so it's gotta be slow. I'd be VERY surprised if the detection to output timing was even slightly deterministic. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightning Strike Site, Latency of AS3935 IRQ output
It could be... It' s not hard to add nop's so that the detection always takes the slowest possible time (but deterministic, or near). Em 16/09/2013 20:36, Mark Sims hol...@hotmail.com escreveu: The AS3935 chip has a DSP on it that is doing a lot of statistical analysis. It only draws a few microamps, so it's gotta be slow. I'd be VERY surprised if the detection to output timing was even slightly deterministic. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightning Strike Site
A little late to the conversation, but there are some relatively low cost (few hundred dollar) PC-based lightning detector products available. I run one that's a PCI card with Windows software that generates a map and statistics that upload to my web page once per minute: http://www.febo.com/wx The system works surprisingly well, though when storms get close the azimuth and range both tend to become blurry. John On 9/9/2013 11:03 AM, Jim Lux wrote: On 9/9/13 5:59 AM, J. Forster wrote: FYI: http://thunderstorm.vaisala.com/explorer.html -John the underlying National Lightning Detection Network distributes the data with a timing precision of 1 microsecond RMS. I assume their sensors are GPS synchronized. The location is done by a combination of direction and time of arrival. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightning Strike Site
John, I'm 'late' to this thread as well but I find it very interesting. In the aviation arena, there are 'storm scopes' that use NDB (non-directional beacon) technology to establish the direction and spectral analysis technology to establish the distance (based on the assumption that the 'lightning strike' is an 'impulse' function and different levels of attenuation of the frequencies generated) to a 'static crash'. How does yours work? Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of John Ackermann N8UR Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 2:38 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightning Strike Site A little late to the conversation, but there are some relatively low cost (few hundred dollar) PC-based lightning detector products available. I run one that's a PCI card with Windows software that generates a map and statistics that upload to my web page once per minute: http://www.febo.com/wx The system works surprisingly well, though when storms get close the azimuth and range both tend to become blurry. John On 9/9/2013 11:03 AM, Jim Lux wrote: On 9/9/13 5:59 AM, J. Forster wrote: FYI: http://thunderstorm.vaisala.com/explorer.html -John the underlying National Lightning Detection Network distributes the data with a timing precision of 1 microsecond RMS. I assume their sensors are GPS synchronized. The location is done by a combination of direction and time of arrival. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Lightning Strike Site
FYI: http://thunderstorm.vaisala.com/explorer.html -John === ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightning Strike Site
On 9/9/13 5:59 AM, J. Forster wrote: FYI: http://thunderstorm.vaisala.com/explorer.html -John the underlying National Lightning Detection Network distributes the data with a timing precision of 1 microsecond RMS. I assume their sensors are GPS synchronized. The location is done by a combination of direction and time of arrival. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightning Strike Site
On 9/9/13 8:36 AM, Bob Smither wrote: On 09/09/2013 07:59 AM, J. Forster wrote: FYI: http://thunderstorm.vaisala.com/explorer.html Here is another one: http://www.strikestarus.com/ That uses an ad-hoc network of Boltek detectors, which work ok. I had one in 1999-2000 at work.. although as I recall, they do position by using direction of arrival and have some scheme for turning field intensity into distance to stroke. The NLDN uses time difference of arrival at multiple stations to come up with a position, and then, knowing the distance, they can turn received field into stroke current. If I were doing scientific research, or had a need for validated lightning data, the NLDN (operated by Vaisala for the government) would be my choice. There's an even more sophisticated system for smaller areas (around Huntsville, for example) that works at 80 MHz and can map the individual segments of the lightning stroke. They definitely use GPS synchronization and time difference of arrival at multiple receiver sites. There are some truly awesome animations of data from this system that show things like cloud to cloud lightning as it develops, as well as more conventional cloud/ground strokes. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightning Strike Site
On 09/09/2013 07:59 AM, J. Forster wrote: FYI: http://thunderstorm.vaisala.com/explorer.html -John === ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. Here is another one: http://www.strikestarus.com/ -- Bob Smither, Ph.D. - Linux User 281-331-2744; fax:-4616 smit...@c-c-i.com = Unix IS user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are = attachment: smither.vcf___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Lightning Strike Site
A cute little lightning detector based upon the AS3935 lightning detector chip: http://www.embeddedadventures.com/as3935_lightning_sensor_module_mod-1016.html ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightning Strike Site
On 9/9/13 1:20 PM, Mark Sims wrote: A cute little lightning detector based upon the AS3935 lightning detector chip: http://www.embeddedadventures.com/as3935_lightning_sensor_module_mod-1016.html ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. A network of those and a decent GPS time hack and you could probably do fairly reasonable lightning stroke position measurement. to a first order, 1 microsecond would give you 300m precision, which is pretty good. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Lightning Strike Site (Jim Lux)
I played around a little with the AS3935 development kits in the hopes of doing just what Mark suggested--putting together an array of lightning detectors with GPS time stamp, using the PICTIC+ time-stamper designed by Richard McCorkle. We already have a global array of cosmic-ray detectors, and some of my students want to see if we can find a correlation between lightning and cosmic-ray air showers. I was hoping that the AS3935 had a pulse output synchronous with detecting a lightning discharge, but the only output is serial data, which seriously limits the time-stamp precision. I'd love to hear if anyone has any ideas for getting a low-latency TTL output from this detector. Tom Bales Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 13:45:07 -0700 From: Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightning Strike Site Message-ID: 522e3353.4020...@earthlink.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 9/9/13 1:20 PM, Mark Sims wrote: A cute little lightning detector based upon the AS3935 lightning detector chip: http://www.embeddedadventures.com/as3935_lightning_sensor_module_mod-1016.html ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. A network of those and a decent GPS time hack and you could probably do fairly reasonable lightning stroke position measurement. to a first order, 1 microsecond would give you 300m precision, which is pretty good. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightning Strike Site (Jim Lux)
On 9/9/13 3:52 PM, Mark Sims wrote: The AS3935 has an INT output pin that signals a detection. You could monitor that. The AS3935 is based upon an internal DSP processing the receiver output. No telling how long between when the strike occurs and when INT is activated. I'd send a nice note to the folks in Austria who make the part and ask them. I suspect, also, that you might be able to figure out some other lightning sensor electronics: the Boltek unit wasn't all that complex, looking at the PC board, but I didn't have a schematic. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Lightning Strike Site (Jim Lux)
The AS3935 has an INT output pin that signals a detection. You could monitor that. The AS3935 is based upon an internal DSP processing the receiver output. No telling how long between when the strike occurs and when INT is activated. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightning Strike Site (Jim Lux)
Come on fellas it can't be that difficult to input a pulse to the chip and measure the prop delay to the INT pin this is timenuts after all :-)) Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 12:08 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightning Strike Site (Jim Lux) On 9/9/13 3:52 PM, Mark Sims wrote: The AS3935 has an INT output pin that signals a detection. You could monitor that. The AS3935 is based upon an internal DSP processing the receiver output. No telling how long between when the strike occurs and when INT is activated. I'd send a nice note to the folks in Austria who make the part and ask them. I suspect, also, that you might be able to figure out some other lightning sensor electronics: the Boltek unit wasn't all that complex, looking at the PC board, but I didn't have a schematic. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
