Re: [time-nuts] Newbie With a Z3801 Problem

[Mike Seguin]

Hi Dave,

For power supply voltages, did you check here:

http://www.realhamradio.com/GPS_Frequency_Standard.htm

Scroll down the page a bit to get to the power supply info.

Your problem is very odd. I retired my Z3801A a while back as it was 
seeing an occasional error. I should drag it back out and see what it does.


Mike

On 11/4/2016 8:23 PM, Dave Hallidy wrote:

Hal-
I took your suggestion and sure enough, I can see on the scope that it puts
out a string on power up.  I'm sure that's why SatStat gives me a
"Communications established- please wait" then "Checking echo".  But then it
all seems to fall apart, because after that, it drops back to "Trying to
establish communications" and "No response..." until I power down then back
up, and it repeats the cycle.

I don't have any real info on power supply voltages, so I don't know what
they should be.  On power up, it goes through the cycle of briefly lighting
the LEDs on the main board red, ending with the green blinking one on the
main board at the same time cycling through the front panel LEDs and ending
with just the power LED lit.  I can pull it apart and check for caps needing
replacement if you think that might be a cause of this.

Dave

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Hal Murray
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 6:56 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Cc: hmur...@megapathdsl.net
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Newbie With a Z3801 Problem

I would put a scope on the TX line from the Z3801A and power cycle it.  I'm
pretty sure it prints out the version string on power up.

Have you checked the power supplies?  Or looked for old electrolytics?




--

73,
Mike, N1JEZ
"A closed mouth gathers no feet"
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Re: [time-nuts] Newbie With a Z3801 Problem

[Gerhard Hoffmann]

Am 05.11.2016 um 12:51 schrieb Bill Riches:

Hi Mark,

Thank you for working with the KS24361.  Looking forward to when the program 
will be available.

Any ideas on being able to use the 1 PPS signal out of the KS24361 to drive SL 
sound card calibration?  It is a weird pulse and someone mentioned the timing 
is wrong.  I use the pulse out of a Jackson unit with SL and it works fine.



In  ,

I have described a 1pps-Buffer, frequency doubler 5->10MHz and 
distribution amplifier
for the KS24361.  You may not want to build it, but there are pictures 
of the

1pps timing of the Lucent and and also a pic that shows where you can get
the internal 1pps in LVCMOS / TTL level. Buffer it to your taste and 
feed it

to a new BNC / SMA / whatever on the front plate.

73, Gerhard, DK4XP

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Re: [time-nuts] Newbie With a Z3801 Problem

[Bill Riches]

Hi Mark,

Thank you for working with the KS24361.  Looking forward to when the program 
will be available.  

Any ideas on being able to use the 1 PPS signal out of the KS24361 to drive SL 
sound card calibration?  It is a weird pulse and someone mentioned the timing 
is wrong.  I use the pulse out of a Jackson unit with SL and it works fine.

73, 

Bill, WA2DVU

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[time-nuts] Newbie With a Z3801 Problem

[Mark Sims]

I recently got in a KS24361 system to test Lady Heather with.  I was having a 
terrible time talking to it.  Lady Heather would detect it (at 19200,7,O,1 on 
the GPS box, 9600,8,N,1 on the non-gps box).  Nothing I did would get it to 
accept commands.  Turns out that the GPS box speaks SCPI at 19200,8,N,1 and my 
detection routine sent a   at 19200,7,O,1 and looked for the SCPI> 
prompt.   The unit accepted the  and responded (Heather does not care 
about pairty on reponses) so I assumed the serial port parameters were properly 
configured,  but any real commands sent would not be recognized.

Once that was sorted out, the other problem was getting the GPS receiver 
initialized.  I could not get it to accept a position.  Also it would not 
automatically re-survey (after a week it had not done a survey).   That problem 
was that I was connected to the non-GPS box and thought it would send the 
commands over to the GPS box.  It was responding as if it had accepted the 
commands, but nope, GPS related commands are only actually processed when 
connected to the GPS box.

Lady Heather now has a terminal emulator built in... makes it easier to to 
diagnose serial port issues and play with sending various SCPI commands.  
Another issue that I had was I tried using a null-modem 25-9 pin cable on a 
Z3801A.   NULL MODEM was molded into the cable connectors.  No go.  It was 
wired a straight through cable... g... wasted a lot of time on that one.

Until you can talk to the Z3801A with a terminal program and verified your 
connection and serial port parameters,  forget about using SATSTAT and GPSCON, 
etc.  Even Lady Heather's auto-detect routine can get fooled by improper parity 
settings.

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Re: [time-nuts] Newbie With a Z3801 Problem

[paul swed]

I guess what I heard so far sounds normal on start.
Just the green power led.
Then it warms up and takes a long time up to 48 hours to acquire the
satellites if it has no battery backup and has been off a long time.
Not sure when the messages go active.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 9:02 PM, n2lym <n2...@optonline.net> wrote:

> Have you tried a loop back connection, short pins 2 and 3 and a terminal
> program? You may have to disable hardware handshaking in hardware manager
> for that USB device or possibly a baud rate problem.
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 04, 2016 at 08:23 PM, Dave Hallidy wrote:
>
> Hal-
>> I took your suggestion and sure enough, I can see on the scope that it
>> puts
>> out a string on power up.  I'm sure that's why SatStat gives me a
>> "Communications established- please wait" then "Checking echo".  But then
>> it
>> all seems to fall apart, because after that, it drops back to "Trying to
>> establish communications" and "No response..." until I power down then
>> back
>> up, and it repeats the cycle.
>>
>> I don't have any real info on power supply voltages, so I don't know what
>> they should be.  On power up, it goes through the cycle of briefly
>> lighting
>> the LEDs on the main board red, ending with the green blinking one on the
>> main board at the same time cycling through the front panel LEDs and
>> ending
>> with just the power LED lit.  I can pull it apart and check for caps
>> needing
>> replacement if you think that might be a cause of this.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Hal
>> Murray
>> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 6:56 PM
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> Cc: hmur...@megapathdsl.net
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Newbie With a Z3801 Problem
>>
>> I would put a scope on the TX line from the Z3801A and power cycle it.
>> I'm pretty sure it prints out the version string on power up.
>>
>> Have you checked the power supplies?  Or looked for old electrolytics?
>>
>>
>> --
>> These are my opinions.  I hate spam.
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [time-nuts] Newbie With a Z3801 Problem

[n2lym]

Have you tried a loop back connection, short pins 2 and 3 and a terminal 
program? You may have to disable hardware handshaking in hardware 
manager for that USB device or possibly a baud rate problem.



Mike




On Fri, Nov 04, 2016 at 08:23 PM, Dave Hallidy wrote:


Hal-
I took your suggestion and sure enough, I can see on the scope that it 
puts

out a string on power up.  I'm sure that's why SatStat gives me a
"Communications established- please wait" then "Checking echo".  But 
then it
all seems to fall apart, because after that, it drops back to "Trying 
to
establish communications" and "No response..." until I power down then 
back

up, and it repeats the cycle.

I don't have any real info on power supply voltages, so I don't know 
what
they should be.  On power up, it goes through the cycle of briefly 
lighting
the LEDs on the main board red, ending with the green blinking one on 
the
main board at the same time cycling through the front panel LEDs and 
ending
with just the power LED lit.  I can pull it apart and check for caps 
needing

replacement if you think that might be a cause of this.

Dave

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Hal 
Murray

Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 6:56 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Cc: hmur...@megapathdsl.net
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Newbie With a Z3801 Problem

I would put a scope on the TX line from the Z3801A and power cycle it. 
I'm pretty sure it prints out the version string on power up.


Have you checked the power supplies?  Or looked for old electrolytics?


--
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.



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Re: [time-nuts] Newbie With a Z3801 Problem

[Dave Hallidy]

Hal-
I took your suggestion and sure enough, I can see on the scope that it puts
out a string on power up.  I'm sure that's why SatStat gives me a
"Communications established- please wait" then "Checking echo".  But then it
all seems to fall apart, because after that, it drops back to "Trying to
establish communications" and "No response..." until I power down then back
up, and it repeats the cycle.

I don't have any real info on power supply voltages, so I don't know what
they should be.  On power up, it goes through the cycle of briefly lighting
the LEDs on the main board red, ending with the green blinking one on the
main board at the same time cycling through the front panel LEDs and ending
with just the power LED lit.  I can pull it apart and check for caps needing
replacement if you think that might be a cause of this.

Dave

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Hal Murray
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 6:56 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Cc: hmur...@megapathdsl.net
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Newbie With a Z3801 Problem

I would put a scope on the TX line from the Z3801A and power cycle it.  I'm 
pretty sure it prints out the version string on power up.

Have you checked the power supplies?  Or looked for old electrolytics?


-- 
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.



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Re: [time-nuts] Newbie With a Z3801 Problem

[Hal Murray]

I would put a scope on the TX line from the Z3801A and power cycle it.  I'm 
pretty sure it prints out the version string on power up.

Have you checked the power supplies?  Or looked for old electrolytics?


-- 
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.



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[time-nuts] Newbie With a Z3801 Problem

[Dave Hallidy]

Hi all-

Dave K2DH here.  I'm new to the group as of today.  I have an old HP Z3801A
that I've had for years and which has been packed away for several years.
It worked when I put it away, but now, although it seems to come up
correctly, I have no serial comms with it.

I'm looking for a little help here, maybe a new suggestion or two.  I'll
tell you what I've tried.

 

When I used it before, I used it with an old Fujitsu laptop running (I
think) Windows 98SE.  I had modified the Z3801's port for RS-232 and it
worked fine for several years.

 

When I got it out the other day, I used the same cable that I had made for
it before (basically a null modem, crossing RXD and TXD).  I loaded SatStat
and tried to run it, but it wouldn't communicate with the receiver.  The
current computer is a Win 7 laptop with a Prolific USB to Serial converter,
but I also tried several XP computers, with the same result.

 

I've confirmed that I'm using the correct com port and I've gotten to the
point of even putting a scope on the RS-232 output and input on the
receiver.  I see requests to connect coming into the Z3801, but no response
of any kind- the 232 line just stays low.  I backed up to the serial driver
chip on the 3801's main board (an LT1180 RS-232 driver/receiver) and the
receiver is passing the request on to the processor, but the driver is not
changing state.  So apparently, the processor on the board doesn't recognize
the command SatStat is sending to it.

 

I've tried the recommended baud rate of 19200,7, O,1 but also just about all
other combinations- thinking maybe the old Fujitsu wasn't capable of 19200
and I might have changed the baud rate.  But all to no avail, and frankly, I
wonder if the 19200,7O,1 configuration isn't hard-coded into the Z3801 and
can't be changed.

 

I've made sure my com port setting on the computers' device managers
correspond to the settings I'm using in SatStat, so the setting should allow
the two to talk to each other.

 

I've had it on for numerous long periods and it hasn't achieved GPS lock,
but I assume that's because it's not in survey mode and I was in a different
location last time I used it.  It goes into holdover after a period of time.

 

Has anyone else experienced this and if so, were you able to overcome it
successfully?  RS-422 isn't really an option and as I said, it used to work
fine via RS-232.

 

Thanks in advance for any assistance- I've become quite interested in
precision time and would like to get this thing running again.

 

73

Dave K2DH

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Re: [time-nuts] Newbie With a Z3801 Problem

[Dave Hallidy]

I should add to this- On power up of the receiver, the SatStat window does
say "Communications established- please wait." Then "Checking echo" Then it
goes into the repetitive "Trying to establish communications" and "No
response." every 3.5 seconds or so.

 

Dave

  _  

From: Dave Hallidy [mailto:k2...@frontier.com] 
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 5:48 PM
To: 'time-nuts@febo.com'
Subject: Newbie With a Z3801 Problem

 

Hi all-

Dave K2DH here.  I'm new to the group as of today.  I have an old HP Z3801A
that I've had for years and which has been packed away for several years.
It worked when I put it away, but now, although it seems to come up
correctly, I have no serial comms with it.

I'm looking for a little help here, maybe a new suggestion or two.  I'll
tell you what I've tried.

 

When I used it before, I used it with an old Fujitsu laptop running (I
think) Windows 98SE.  I had modified the Z3801's port for RS-232 and it
worked fine for several years.

 

When I got it out the other day, I used the same cable that I had made for
it before (basically a null modem, crossing RXD and TXD).  I loaded SatStat
and tried to run it, but it wouldn't communicate with the receiver.  The
current computer is a Win 7 laptop with a Prolific USB to Serial converter,
but I also tried several XP computers, with the same result.

 

I've confirmed that I'm using the correct com port and I've gotten to the
point of even putting a scope on the RS-232 output and input on the
receiver.  I see requests to connect coming into the Z3801, but no response
of any kind- the 232 line just stays low.  I backed up to the serial driver
chip on the 3801's main board (an LT1180 RS-232 driver/receiver) and the
receiver is passing the request on to the processor, but the driver is not
changing state.  So apparently, the processor on the board doesn't recognize
the command SatStat is sending to it.

 

I've tried the recommended baud rate of 19200,7, O,1 but also just about all
other combinations- thinking maybe the old Fujitsu wasn't capable of 19200
and I might have changed the baud rate.  But all to no avail, and frankly, I
wonder if the 19200,7O,1 configuration isn't hard-coded into the Z3801 and
can't be changed.

 

I've made sure my com port setting on the computers' device managers
correspond to the settings I'm using in SatStat, so the setting should allow
the two to talk to each other.

 

I've had it on for numerous long periods and it hasn't achieved GPS lock,
but I assume that's because it's not in survey mode and I was in a different
location last time I used it.  It goes into holdover after a period of time.

 

Has anyone else experienced this and if so, were you able to overcome it
successfully?  RS-422 isn't really an option and as I said, it used to work
fine via RS-232.

 

Thanks in advance for any assistance- I've become quite interested in
precision time and would like to get this thing running again.

 

73

Dave K2DH

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