[time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration?
To John Ackermann! My recommendation for documents about DC-voltage-standards are the Fluke sites. Go to service/manuals, e.g.: http://www.fluke.co.uk/comx/manuals.aspx?locale=ukenpid=0 They still produce the best and most accurate DC calibrators and standards, and to my biggest pleasure, they recently scanned all manuals of actual and outdated devices. The manuals contain schematics, setup of complete reference system, and best read 'principle of operation'. For a complete system, you need the following devices / instruction manuals, just search for the product names and download: 1. Zener based Voltage References: 731A, 732A, 732B, 7000 (LTZ based, w.o. schematics) For the actual 7000 system, also search for the underlying UK patent GB 2 258 356 A, from John Robert Pickering (1993). The temperature hysteresis of the LTZ1000 zener reference is mitigated by a temperature cycling process. 2. Calibrators: 332A, 332D, 335D, (old devices, but very instructive for complete system); 5700A, 5720A 3. Kelvin Varley Divider: 720A (7 digits, 0.1ppm linearity) 4. Reference Divider: 752A (provides highly accurate transfers of 1:100, 1:10, 1:1, 10:1, 100:1 for the 5 cardinal DC points) 5. Null detector: 845A (see also schematics of 335D) To learn about precision resistors, goto vishay site, ultra high precision resistors, technical and application notes, datasheet: http://www.vishay.com/resistors-discrete/metal-foil/ Also: Zero TC Foil Resistor, Ten Fold Improvement in Tempertaure Coefficient, Reuven Goldstein et.al. Brian Kirby already summed up the other most important sources. Frank Stellmach ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration?
Dr. Frank Stellmach wrote: To John Ackermann! My recommendation for documents about DC-voltage-standards are the Fluke sites. Go to service/manuals, e.g.: http://www.fluke.co.uk/comx/manuals.aspx?locale=ukenpid=0 They still produce the best and most accurate DC calibrators and standards, and to my biggest pleasure, they recently scanned all manuals of actual and outdated devices. All is perhaps a little too inclusive. They haven't scanned a single Fluke instrument from my lab. To wit: 5200A, 343A, 8060A. -Chuck Harris ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration? Fluke manuals
Chuck, try '341A', this manual covers the 343A also. (different beta string only) I've got the 5100, 5205, 5215 manuals from their site, perhaps something comes close to your 5200. Frank ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration? Fluke manual 5200A
Chuck, I just have found the 5200A manual addendum here: http://us.fluke.com/usen/support/manuals/default.htm?prodcategory=OBS The others I mentioned are the power amps only. Fluke still scans on, so look for other manuals later. Frank ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration? Fluke manual 5200A
Hi Frank, Thanks! And they did a really good job with the scanning too. They are using a nice auto feeding scanner that seems to be very well setup. Their searching tools could use some improvement, though. I searched for 5200, 5200A, 341, 341A, 343, 343A, 8060, 8060A, and it didn't find any of them. And I scanned through the lists they had for the various instrument types without success. Apparently you have found a better area to look. -Chuck Harris Dr. Frank Stellmach wrote: Chuck, I just have found the 5200A manual addendum here: http://us.fluke.com/usen/support/manuals/default.htm?prodcategory=OBS The others I mentioned are the power amps only. Fluke still scans on, so look for other manuals later. Frank ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration? Fluke manual5200A
Re..the Fluke manual downloads - - try the Australian Fluke website - - they have the best selection of all. Roy - Original Message - From: Chuck Harris cfhar...@erols.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 9:35 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration? Fluke manual5200A Hi Frank, Thanks! And they did a really good job with the scanning too. They are using a nice auto feeding scanner that seems to be very well setup. Their searching tools could use some improvement, though. I searched for 5200, 5200A, 341, 341A, 343, 343A, 8060, 8060A, and it didn't find any of them. And I scanned through the lists they had for the various instrument types without success. Apparently you have found a better area to look. -Chuck Harris Dr. Frank Stellmach wrote: Chuck, I just have found the 5200A manual addendum here: http://us.fluke.com/usen/support/manuals/default.htm?prodcategory=OBS The others I mentioned are the power amps only. Fluke still scans on, so look for other manuals later. Frank ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration?
The guy that makes those inexpensive little precision voltage standards has a new design and new web site. His old units were based on the XICOR chip (which XICOR killed because of bad yields). His new design uses a TI REF5050 chip. He has 2.5V, 4.096V, and 5V 0.01% units for under $30 each. I really like his stuff. He will recalibrate them against an HP3458 for $5... http://www.voltagestandard.com _ Windows Live™ Contacts: Organize your contact list. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/marcusatmicrosoft.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!503D1D86EBB2B53C!2285.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_UGC_Contacts_032009 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration?
That reminds me of a prank we pulled off in a measurements class in college many years ago. Of course we were working with galvanometers and standard cells, and the usual warnings. We had some cloth insulated hook up wire, so we pulled the wire out and put part of it back in the insulation so that it looked real, and then shorted the standard cell with this setup. We waited for the professor to come by and let him see what we had done. After he came down off the ceiling, we pulled the insulation back off so he could see that we hadn't really shorted it after all. It's a good thing he had a great sense of humor. (I think he is the type that would have pulled the same sort of stunt). Daun -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Louis Oneto Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 11:49 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration? I suppose it was to to keep the electrolyt to slam around ;-} ??? Jean-Louis Oneto - Original Message - From: Bill Hawkins b...@iaxs.net To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 4:24 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration? Yes, never load a standard cell. It's standard practice to put a jumper across the terminals of a galvanometer for shipping, so the needle (or mirror) doesn't slam around. Some years ago, I got a standard cell from eBay. The terminals had been shorted for shipping. Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: Jürg Kögel Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 7:36 AM A good reference is the old Fluke publication Calibration - Philosophy in Practice by Steve Spang. (1975) Be very carefull with standard cells! Never load a cell. Use the cells only with high ohm null detectors. A loaded cell need a long time for regeneration (or come back never to the old value!) I think a good zener reference is a better practical solution for today. Juerg ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration?
I have heard of standard cells being sent in for restandardization. Is there a type that can stand being shaken but not stirred? Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Jean-Louis Oneto jean-louis.on...@obs-azur.fr To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration? I suppose it was to to keep the electrolyt to slam around ;-} ??? Jean-Louis Oneto - Original Message - From: Bill Hawkins b...@iaxs.net To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 4:24 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration? Yes, never load a standard cell. It's standard practice to put a jumper across the terminals of a galvanometer for shipping, so the needle (or mirror) doesn't slam around. Some years ago, I got a standard cell from eBay. The terminals had been shorted for shipping. Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: Jürg Kögel Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 7:36 AM A good reference is the old Fluke publication Calibration - Philosophy in Practice by Steve Spang. (1975) Be very carefull with standard cells! Never load a cell. Use the cells only with high ohm null detectors. A loaded cell need a long time for regeneration (or come back never to the old value!) I think a good zener reference is a better practical solution for today. Juerg ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration?
There are two types of standard cells, saturated and unsaturated. The saturated cells cannot take any physical abuse. The unsaturated cells can be put in any position and can usually recover. It may take six months Sometimes they get a bubble in the unit. You can tap it out and allow it to stand and it may recover. You can also remove a defective cell from the case and replace it... Brian Kirby KD4FM Max Robinson wrote: I have heard of standard cells being sent in for restandardization. Is there a type that can stand being shaken but not stirred? Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Jean-Louis Oneto jean-louis.on...@obs-azur.fr To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration? I suppose it was to to keep the electrolyt to slam around ;-} ??? Jean-Louis Oneto - Original Message - From: Bill Hawkins b...@iaxs.net To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 4:24 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration? Yes, never load a standard cell. It's standard practice to put a jumper across the terminals of a galvanometer for shipping, so the needle (or mirror) doesn't slam around. Some years ago, I got a standard cell from eBay. The terminals had been shorted for shipping. Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: Jürg Kögel Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 7:36 AM A good reference is the old Fluke publication Calibration - Philosophy in Practice by Steve Spang. (1975) Be very carefull with standard cells! Never load a cell. Use the cells only with high ohm null detectors. A loaded cell need a long time for regeneration (or come back never to the old value!) I think a good zener reference is a better practical solution for today. Juerg ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration?
I suppose it was to to keep the electrolyt to slam around ;-} ??? Jean-Louis Oneto - Original Message - From: Bill Hawkins b...@iaxs.net To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 4:24 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration? Yes, never load a standard cell. It's standard practice to put a jumper across the terminals of a galvanometer for shipping, so the needle (or mirror) doesn't slam around. Some years ago, I got a standard cell from eBay. The terminals had been shorted for shipping. Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: Jürg Kögel Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 7:36 AM A good reference is the old Fluke publication Calibration - Philosophy in Practice by Steve Spang. (1975) Be very carefull with standard cells! Never load a cell. Use the cells only with high ohm null detectors. A loaded cell need a long time for regeneration (or come back never to the old value!) I think a good zener reference is a better practical solution for today. Juerg ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration?
search LTZ1000, LM399, and LH0070 at www.linear.com , also get app notes AN42, AN82, and AN86 - and by the way, most big parts houses have quit carrying these references - but they can be ordered direct from Linear Technology. The LTZ1000 is used in HP3458A multimeters and a lot of voltage calibrators from Datron, Fluke, etc. The LM299 and LM399 were used in HP 3457A and HP3456A, and others. more info on LM199/LM399 at national semiconductor, and a few app notes, AN 161 , AN184, finding a good standard cell, is hard to do nowadays. I bought 6 units on ebay, 2 were from folks that had them and they were able to test and furnish data, and the other four were old and the voltage was too low to be stable. Basically if the voltage is not 1.0183 volts and above they are no good. They are finicky and I would read up on them before I would purchase one. NIST had a paper on them that explained the history of them, their construction, and how to handle them and the temperature conversion formulas for the saturated cells. Check out NIST 250-28 Solid State DC Voltage Calibrations, A Sub-PPM Automated 1-10 Volt DC Measuring System by Bruce E. Field, NBS Measurement Services: Standard Cell Calibrations, also by Bruce E. Field, Standard Cells - Their Construction, Maintenance and Characteristics by Walter J. Hamer all at NIST. Look up Kelvin Varley dividers - I don't know if these folks are still in business Julie Labs and ESI. Leeds and Northrup made a few also. HP had some app notes on measurements, look up the 3456A, 3457A, 3458A and it should show some app notes for them. Zicor had AN177, I believe Intersil bought them And Keithley had a free book called Low Level Measurements Handbook - Precision DC Current, Voltage, and Resistance Measurements thats worth a read. If you can find a copy of Current Sources and Voltage References: A Design Reference for Electronics Engineers, by Linden Harrison, its a good read on a lot of semiconductor references in the last 15 years or so - I would see if you can find it in a library somewhere, if you purchase it its about $50-75 on the used market. Brian - KD4FM John Ackermann N8UR wrote: I'm interested in learning some basics about precision voltage calibration (as can be realized by the hobbyist, not Josephson Junction systems!). A Google search hasn't turned up anything like a tutorial. Anyone know of any good app notes or other references on things like standard cells, zener references, precision potentiometers, etc? -- and how to use them? Thanks, John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration?
Brian Kirby wrote: search LTZ1000, LM399, and LH0070 at www.linear.com , also get app notes AN42, AN82, and AN86 - and by the way, most big parts houses have quit carrying these references - but they can be ordered direct from Linear Technology. The LTZ1000 is used in HP3458A multimeters and a lot of voltage calibrators from Datron, Fluke, etc. The LM299 and LM399 were used in HP 3457A and HP3456A, and others. more info on LM199/LM399 at national semiconductor, and a few app notes, AN 161 , AN184, finding a good standard cell, is hard to do nowadays. I bought 6 units on ebay, 2 were from folks that had them and they were able to test and furnish data, and the other four were old and the voltage was too low to be stable. Basically if the voltage is not 1.0183 volts and above they are no good. They are finicky and I would read up on them before I would purchase one. NIST had a paper on them that explained the history of them, their construction, and how to handle them and the temperature conversion formulas for the saturated cells. Check out NIST 250-28 Solid State DC Voltage Calibrations, A Sub-PPM Automated 1-10 Volt DC Measuring System by Bruce E. Field, NBS Measurement Services: Standard Cell Calibrations, also by Bruce E. Field, Standard Cells - Their Construction, Maintenance and Characteristics by Walter J. Hamer all at NIST. Look up Kelvin Varley dividers - I don't know if these folks are still in business Julie Labs and ESI. Leeds and Northrup made a few also. One of the best ways to ensure you get a good Weston standard cell is to make your own. However obtaining the Mercury and the Cadmium sulphate may be difficult. The mercury salts are easily produce by electrolysis in a dark enclosure (they are photosensitive). Julie research labs are long gone, however http://www.ohm-labs.com/ make some of the instruments and standards they used to sell. They also claim to have taken over from Leeds and Northrup. Also see: http://www.ietlabs.com/ Fluke still make the 720A KVD. HP had some app notes on measurements, look up the 3456A, 3457A, 3458A and it should show some app notes for them. Zicor had AN177, I believe Intersil bought them And Keithley had a free book called Low Level Measurements Handbook - Precision DC Current, Voltage, and Resistance Measurements thats worth a read. If you can find a copy of Current Sources and Voltage References: A Design Reference for Electronics Engineers, by Linden Harrison, its a good read on a lot of semiconductor references in the last 15 years or so - I would see if you can find it in a library somewhere, if you purchase it its about $50-75 on the used market. Brian - KD4FM John Ackermann N8UR wrote: I'm interested in learning some basics about precision voltage calibration (as can be realized by the hobbyist, not Josephson Junction systems!). A Google search hasn't turned up anything like a tutorial. Anyone know of any good app notes or other references on things like standard cells, zener references, precision potentiometers, etc? -- and how to use them? Thanks, John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration?
Hi Bruce (and others!) -- Thanks to all for the pointers. No, Bruce, I'm not going quite that far. I've just acquired a couple of pieces of voltage gear and don't really know the first thing about the calibration process. I'm really looking to learn the basics (as they were 20 years ago, since that's the vintage of any gear I'll likely be acquiring). Thanks! John Bruce Griffiths said the following on 03/14/2009 10:31 PM: John Did you want a recipe for making your own standard cells? If so you'll also want an oil bath to keep them in. Bruce Bill Beam wrote: John, Check this out: www.gellerlabs.com On 3/14/2009 5:33:45 PM, John Ackermann N8UR (j...@febo.com) wrote: I'm interested in learning some basics about precision voltage calibration (as can be realized by the hobbyist, not Josephson Junction systems!). A Google search hasn't turned up anything like a tutorial. Anyone know of any good app notes or other references on things like standard cells, zener references, precision potentiometers, etc? -- and how to use them? Thanks, John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time- nuts and follow the instructions there. Bill Beam NL7F ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration?
A good reference is the old Fluke publication Calibration - Philosophy in Practice by Steve Spang. (1975) Be very carefull with standard cells! Never load a cell. Use the cells only with high ohm null detectors. A loaded cell need a long time for regeneration (or come back never to the old value!) I think a good zener reference is a better practical solution for today. Juerg ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration?
Yes, never load a standard cell. It's standard practice to put a jumper across the terminals of a galvanometer for shipping, so the needle (or mirror) doesn't slam around. Some years ago, I got a standard cell from eBay. The terminals had been shorted for shipping. Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: Jürg Kögel Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 7:36 AM A good reference is the old Fluke publication Calibration - Philosophy in Practice by Steve Spang. (1975) Be very carefull with standard cells! Never load a cell. Use the cells only with high ohm null detectors. A loaded cell need a long time for regeneration (or come back never to the old value!) I think a good zener reference is a better practical solution for today. Juerg ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration?
Hi Bill. I could use that DVM if no one else has spoken for it. Let me know and I'll give you my address off list. My email address is after my signature. Regards. One of the lurkers, Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: John Ackermann N8UR j...@febo.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:27 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration? Bill Hawkins said the following on 03/14/2009 10:39 PM: I have an extra Fluke DVM around here someplace, if you're interested. Free to a good home for experiments. Hi Bill-- Thanks for the offer on the DVM -- remembering the D is for differential! However, I have an old 893A here that I just powered up for the first time in years. It seems to work (at least, the meter zeros properly) so that gives me something to play with. Don't think I need another one, so maybe someone else will be interested in taking you up on the offer... John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration?
In a message dated 15/03/2009 15:27:52 GMT Standard Time, j...@febo.com writes: However, I have an old 893A here that I just powered up for the first time in years. It seems to work (at least, the meter zeros properly) so that gives me something to play with. --- Hi John and All Some time ago I uploaded the 893A manual to Rapidshare and it can be found at.. _http://rapidshare.com/files/154803854/FLUKE_893A.pdf_ (http://rapidshare.com/files/154803854/FLUKE_893A.pdf) I did try to upload it to Didier's site a few minutes ago but am having access problems again so Didier, if you read this, please feel free to download a copy for your site if you'd like one. regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration?
I'm interested in learning some basics about precision voltage calibration (as can be realized by the hobbyist, not Josephson Junction systems!). A Google search hasn't turned up anything like a tutorial. Anyone know of any good app notes or other references on things like standard cells, zener references, precision potentiometers, etc? -- and how to use them? Thanks, John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration?
John, A book you find interesting is called Calibration and Standards, DC-40GHz by Richard Calhoun, published by SSS, Inc. of Louisville, Ky At 06:33 PM 3/14/2009, you wrote: I'm interested in learning some basics about precision voltage calibration (as can be realized by the hobbyist, not Josephson Junction systems!). A Google search hasn't turned up anything like a tutorial. Anyone know of any good app notes or other references on things like standard cells, zener references, precision potentiometers, etc? -- and how to use them? Thanks, John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration?
John Ackermann N8UR wrote: I'm interested in learning some basics about precision voltage calibration (as can be realized by the hobbyist, not Josephson Junction systems!). A Google search hasn't turned up anything like a tutorial. Anyone know of any good app notes or other references on things like standard cells, zener references, precision potentiometers, etc? -- and how to use them? Thanks, John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. John You could begin with Eicke's work at NBS on the stability of zener references. There are also some papers by Loebe Julie on potentiometers. Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration?
John, Check this out: www.gellerlabs.com On 3/14/2009 5:33:45 PM, John Ackermann N8UR (j...@febo.com) wrote: I'm interested in learning some basics about precision voltage calibration (as can be realized by the hobbyist, not Josephson Junction systems!). A Google search hasn't turned up anything like a tutorial. Anyone know of any good app notes or other references on things like standard cells, zener references, precision potentiometers, etc? -- and how to use them? Thanks, John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time- nuts and follow the instructions there. Bill Beam NL7F ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration?
John, Try for older texts on electricity, 50 years or more back, before things got complicated. The trick with potentiometers is to establish a precision current in a set of resistance decades, so that E = I * R gives a precise voltage. A galvanometer (or microvoltmeter) is used so the unknown doesn't change the precision current. A resistor and a millivolt trim resistor establish the standard cell voltage using the same precision current in the divider string. The pot that establishes the standard current from a working battery is adjusted until the voltage across the standard cell resistor nulls with the voltage from a primary standard cell. Fluke differential voltmeters use these principles, although they don't use standard cells. You can easily calibrate a Fluke DVM (not digital) to a standard cell. The thing is, standard cells don't like to be disturbed. Shipping would change the equilibrium of the electrolyte and invalidate the millivolt calibration. You can't ship primary standard cells. But they were used in portable devices like thermocouple potentiometers, because 1% accuracy was adequate. I have an extra Fluke DVM around here someplace, if you're interested. Free to a good home for experiments. Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of John Ackermann N8UR Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:34 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] OT: Basics of voltage calibration? I'm interested in learning some basics about precision voltage calibration (as can be realized by the hobbyist, not Josephson Junction systems!). A Google search hasn't turned up anything like a tutorial. Anyone know of any good app notes or other references on things like standard cells, zener references, precision potentiometers, etc? -- and how to use them? Thanks, John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
