Re: [time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?

[Mark Spencer]

Thanks Tim.

All the best

Mark Spencer

m...@alignedsolutions.com
604 762 4099

> On May 9, 2018, at 5:38 PM, Tim Tuck  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> this is a product of Glen VK1XX.
> he will have a website with eCommerce up soon and when that happens I will
> announce it to the list
> Regards
> Tim
> 
>> On Wed, 9 May 2018 at 10:43, Mark Spencer  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi would anyone be able to point me (off list) in the direction of a bit
>> more information re this device ?
>> 
>> Many thanks
>> 
>> Mark S
>> 
>> m...@alignedsolutions.com
>> 604 762 4099
>> 
>>> On May 8, 2018, at 12:15 AM, Tim Tuck  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Pete,
>>> 
>>> You probably want this...
>>> 
>>> https://github.com/glenenglishgithub/anylockerFS
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Lots of VK's are lining up for the first run of boards to lock their
>> radios.
>>> 
>>> regards
>>> 
>>> Tim
>>> 
 On 11/04/2018 8:00 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
 Needed for SDR project as external clock source.
 
 -pete
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> -- 
> 
> -- 
> 
> VK2XAX :: QF56if23 :: BMARC :: WIA :: AMSATVK
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Re: [time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?

[Tim Tuck]

Hi Mark,

 this is a product of Glen VK1XX.
he will have a website with eCommerce up soon and when that happens I will
announce it to the list
Regards
Tim

On Wed, 9 May 2018 at 10:43, Mark Spencer  wrote:

> Hi would anyone be able to point me (off list) in the direction of a bit
> more information re this device ?
>
> Many thanks
>
> Mark S
>
> m...@alignedsolutions.com
> 604 762 4099
>
> > On May 8, 2018, at 12:15 AM, Tim Tuck  wrote:
> >
> > Hi Pete,
> >
> > You probably want this...
> >
> > https://github.com/glenenglishgithub/anylockerFS
> >
> >
> > Lots of VK's are lining up for the first run of boards to lock their
> radios.
> >
> > regards
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >> On 11/04/2018 8:00 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
> >> Needed for SDR project as external clock source.
> >>
> >> -pete
> >> ___
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-- 

-- 

VK2XAX :: QF56if23 :: BMARC :: WIA :: AMSATVK
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Re: [time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?

[Mark Spencer]

Hi would anyone be able to point me (off list) in the direction of a bit more 
information re this device ?

Many thanks 

Mark S

m...@alignedsolutions.com
604 762 4099

> On May 8, 2018, at 12:15 AM, Tim Tuck  wrote:
> 
> Hi Pete,
> 
> You probably want this...
> 
> https://github.com/glenenglishgithub/anylockerFS
> 
> 
> Lots of VK's are lining up for the first run of boards to lock their radios.
> 
> regards
> 
> Tim
> 
>> On 11/04/2018 8:00 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
>> Needed for SDR project as external clock source.
>> 
>> -pete
>> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?

[Tim Tuck]

Hi Pete,

You probably want this...

https://github.com/glenenglishgithub/anylockerFS


Lots of VK's are lining up for the first run of boards to lock their radios.

regards

Tim

On 11/04/2018 8:00 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:

Needed for SDR project as external clock source.

-pete
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Re: [time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?

[Pete Lancashire]

14 bit

On Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 8:00 AM jimlux  wrote:

> On 4/16/18 3:45 AM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
> > Access to " the xtal" is not an option the SDR is enclosed in a metal
> box.
> >
> > Do a web search for RSP2Pro
> >
> >
>
> It does have an external reference input..
> There's not a lot of info on the Mirics data sheets (or on the sdrplay
> website)
>
> It sort of looks like this is a somewhat enhanced version of the parts
> used in the RTL-SDR dongles.
> (10 bit ADC, instead of 8 bits in the RTL2832)
>
> And of course it needs 24MHz because it has to run the USB interface.
>
> 10 bit ADC means that you probably don't need *outstanding* clock
> performance - the sample and hold and all the other timing logic is
> probably designed to that sort of performance level - getting
> femtosecond jitter probably isn't worth it.
>
>
> If you're just looking for a 24 MHz driver that doesn't need to be
> locked to anything, one of the SiTime modules would work, or you could
> probably order a TCXO for 24 MHz - it's a standard frequency (viz. USB),
> so it's almost certainly available from stock
>
>
>
> > On Sun, Apr 15, 2018, 6:00 AM Attila Kinali  wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 11 Apr 2018 03:00:23 -0700
> >> Pete Lancashire  wrote:
> >>
> >>> Needed for SDR project as external clock source.
> >>
> >> If your goal is, as Jim guessed, to get 24MHz from 10MHz and
> >> you are using something like an RTL-SDR, then how about just
> >> passing the 10MHz through a CMOS gate to square it up and
> >> get nice harmonics, then pass a wire close to the crystal.
> >> This should injection lock the crystal to right frequency.
> >> It wont be a strong lock due to the 5:12 ratio, but for something
> >> like a crystal that is already quite close, that should do the trick.
> >>
> >> Alternatively, using an ADF4002 with a small uC to configure it
> >> and a VCXO/VCO should also work.
> >>
> >>  Attila Kinali
> >> --
> >> The bad part of Zurich is where the degenerates
> >>  throw DARK chocolate at you.
> >> ___
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> >>
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Re: [time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?

[jimlux]

On 4/16/18 3:45 AM, Pete Lancashire wrote:

Access to " the xtal" is not an option the SDR is enclosed in a metal box.

Do a web search for RSP2Pro




It does have an external reference input..
There's not a lot of info on the Mirics data sheets (or on the sdrplay 
website)


It sort of looks like this is a somewhat enhanced version of the parts 
used in the RTL-SDR dongles.

(10 bit ADC, instead of 8 bits in the RTL2832)

And of course it needs 24MHz because it has to run the USB interface.

10 bit ADC means that you probably don't need *outstanding* clock 
performance - the sample and hold and all the other timing logic is 
probably designed to that sort of performance level - getting 
femtosecond jitter probably isn't worth it.



If you're just looking for a 24 MHz driver that doesn't need to be 
locked to anything, one of the SiTime modules would work, or you could 
probably order a TCXO for 24 MHz - it's a standard frequency (viz. USB), 
so it's almost certainly available from stock





On Sun, Apr 15, 2018, 6:00 AM Attila Kinali  wrote:


On Wed, 11 Apr 2018 03:00:23 -0700
Pete Lancashire  wrote:


Needed for SDR project as external clock source.


If your goal is, as Jim guessed, to get 24MHz from 10MHz and
you are using something like an RTL-SDR, then how about just
passing the 10MHz through a CMOS gate to square it up and
get nice harmonics, then pass a wire close to the crystal.
This should injection lock the crystal to right frequency.
It wont be a strong lock due to the 5:12 ratio, but for something
like a crystal that is already quite close, that should do the trick.

Alternatively, using an ADF4002 with a small uC to configure it
and a VCXO/VCO should also work.

 Attila Kinali
--
The bad part of Zurich is where the degenerates
 throw DARK chocolate at you.
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Re: [time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?

[Pete Lancashire]

Access to " the xtal" is not an option the SDR is enclosed in a metal box.

Do a web search for RSP2Pro



On Sun, Apr 15, 2018, 6:00 AM Attila Kinali  wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Apr 2018 03:00:23 -0700
> Pete Lancashire  wrote:
>
> > Needed for SDR project as external clock source.
>
> If your goal is, as Jim guessed, to get 24MHz from 10MHz and
> you are using something like an RTL-SDR, then how about just
> passing the 10MHz through a CMOS gate to square it up and
> get nice harmonics, then pass a wire close to the crystal.
> This should injection lock the crystal to right frequency.
> It wont be a strong lock due to the 5:12 ratio, but for something
> like a crystal that is already quite close, that should do the trick.
>
> Alternatively, using an ADF4002 with a small uC to configure it
> and a VCXO/VCO should also work.
>
> Attila Kinali
> --
> The bad part of Zurich is where the degenerates
> throw DARK chocolate at you.
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
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Re: [time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?

[Attila Kinali]

On Wed, 11 Apr 2018 03:00:23 -0700
Pete Lancashire  wrote:

> Needed for SDR project as external clock source.

If your goal is, as Jim guessed, to get 24MHz from 10MHz and
you are using something like an RTL-SDR, then how about just
passing the 10MHz through a CMOS gate to square it up and
get nice harmonics, then pass a wire close to the crystal.
This should injection lock the crystal to right frequency.
It wont be a strong lock due to the 5:12 ratio, but for something
like a crystal that is already quite close, that should do the trick.

Alternatively, using an ADF4002 with a small uC to configure it
and a VCXO/VCO should also work.

Attila Kinali
-- 
The bad part of Zurich is where the degenerates
throw DARK chocolate at you.
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[time-nuts] Suggestions on getting 24 MHz?

[Perry Sandeen via time-nuts]

Esteemed List Members,
I have four new Midland glass encased 3.00 MHz HC 6 case style available.  
Each one was given a S/N and were ordered for Hallicrafters circa.  Ovenized 
they would be excellent although I don't now what oven temp was specified.  
Best guess is 85 C.
I can send world wide.
If interested please send and email directly to me at sandeenpa at yahoo dot 
com  (Please do not reply on the list.)
Regards,
Perrier
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Re: [time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?

[Tom Van Baak]

Pete,

Is your goal to make SDR frequency measurements? One solution: grab any 24 MHz 
oscillator you find but use a counter with known accurate timebase 
(Rb,Cs,GPSDO) to continuously record its actual frequency. Don't adjust the 
frequency; just record it. Then, apply those readings as corrections to your 
SDR measurements. This software (or pencil & paper) correction method should 
give equivalent results as an atomic- or GPS-disciplined 24 MHz timebase.

/tvb

- Original Message - 
From: "Pete Lancashire" <p...@petelancashire.com>
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 3:00 AM
Subject: [time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?


> Needed for SDR project as external clock source.
> 
> -pete
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Re: [time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?

[Mark Goldberg]

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 11:15 AM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:

> Hi
>
> > On Apr 11, 2018, at 12:11 PM, Graham / KE9H 
> wrote:
> >
> > Phase noise is (usually) more important than absolute frequency accuracy.
>
> It’s probably well worth looking into exactly what you are after in terms
> of phase noise,
> spurs, and stability *before* deciding on a solution. In some cases things
> like DDS spurs
> are a non-issue. In other cases phase noise at certain offsets is a really
> big deal, but at
> other offsets … it’s a non-issue.
>
>
I am using the single output Bodnar GPSDO driving a frequency locked Wenzel
low phase noise oscillator and using that for my SDR ADC clock. I am using
it to take phase noise measurements and it certainly is as good as the
references I have available, and matches pretty well with measurements on a
$90k phase noise meter.

The Wenzel eliminates far out spurs from the GPSDO. Note that different
register values may result in the same frequency output of the GPSDO, but
spurs can be very different. For some frequencies and with the right
register values, I expect the GPSDO alone may be good enough for an SDR
clock, but I have not tried.

This is the best I can measure with this setup. I think the ADC noise
limits the far out phase noise.

Offset   Phase Noise
(Hz)   (dBc/Hz)
10 -96.9
20   -103.0
50   -106.9
100 -109.7
200 -117.7
500 -128.4
1,000  -136.4
2,000  -140.1
5,000  -143.1
10,000-144.9
20,000-145.6
50,000-145.7
100,000  -146.2
1,000,000   -146.6

Regards,

Mark
W7MLG
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Re: [time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi


> On Apr 11, 2018, at 12:11 PM, Graham / KE9H <ke9h.gra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Phase noise is (usually) more important than absolute frequency accuracy.

It’s probably well worth looking into exactly what you are after in terms of 
phase noise, 
spurs, and stability *before* deciding on a solution. In some cases things like 
DDS spurs
are a non-issue. In other cases phase noise at certain offsets is a really big 
deal, but at
other offsets … it’s a non-issue. 

Bob


> 
> I suggest some kind of low phase noise master oscillator (OCXO) feeding a
> DDS without an internal multiplier.
> 
> If internal multiplier in DDS, that, rather than the frequency reference
> source will set the phase noise floor of the sampling.
> 
> --- Graham
> 
> ==
> 
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Jerry Hancock <je...@hanler.com> wrote:
> 
>> For and RSP?  I used an HP 3325 locked to my Cs beam and took the signal
>> from the back.  I think I paid no more than $100 for the 3325a and one I
>> got for free.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Jerry
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 11, 2018, at 4:49 AM, jster...@att.net wrote:
>>> 
>>> Leo Bodnar GPSDO - adjustable Low-jitter GPS-locked precision frequency
>> reference 400 Hz to 810 MHz .  He has a new one, single output for 99
>> british pounds.
>>> 
>>> Jerry NY2KW
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: time-nuts <time-nuts-boun...@febo.com> On Behalf Of Pete
>> Lancashire
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 6:00 AM
>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <
>> time-nuts@febo.com>
>>> Subject: [time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?
>>> 
>>> Needed for SDR project as external clock source.
>>> 
>>> -pete
>>> ___
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>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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Re: [time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?

[Graham / KE9H]

Phase noise is (usually) more important than absolute frequency accuracy.

I suggest some kind of low phase noise master oscillator (OCXO) feeding a
DDS without an internal multiplier.

If internal multiplier in DDS, that, rather than the frequency reference
source will set the phase noise floor of the sampling.

--- Graham

==

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Jerry Hancock <je...@hanler.com> wrote:

> For and RSP?  I used an HP 3325 locked to my Cs beam and took the signal
> from the back.  I think I paid no more than $100 for the 3325a and one I
> got for free.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry
>
>
> > On Apr 11, 2018, at 4:49 AM, jster...@att.net wrote:
> >
> > Leo Bodnar GPSDO - adjustable Low-jitter GPS-locked precision frequency
> reference 400 Hz to 810 MHz .  He has a new one, single output for 99
> british pounds.
> >
> > Jerry NY2KW
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: time-nuts <time-nuts-boun...@febo.com> On Behalf Of Pete
> Lancashire
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 6:00 AM
> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <
> time-nuts@febo.com>
> > Subject: [time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?
> >
> > Needed for SDR project as external clock source.
> >
> > -pete
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
> >
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Re: [time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?

[Pete Lancashire]

Yea, was also thinking of grabbing one of my 3325B's and hiding it under
the desk :-)

Going to see on Ebay if there are any 24 MHz VXCO's

-pete

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 9:00 AM, Jerry Hancock <je...@hanler.com> wrote:

> For and RSP?  I used an HP 3325 locked to my Cs beam and took the signal
> from the back.  I think I paid no more than $100 for the 3325a and one I
> got for free.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry
>
>
> > On Apr 11, 2018, at 4:49 AM, jster...@att.net wrote:
> >
> > Leo Bodnar GPSDO - adjustable Low-jitter GPS-locked precision frequency
> reference 400 Hz to 810 MHz .  He has a new one, single output for 99
> british pounds.
> >
> > Jerry NY2KW
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: time-nuts <time-nuts-boun...@febo.com> On Behalf Of Pete
> Lancashire
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 6:00 AM
> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <
> time-nuts@febo.com>
> > Subject: [time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?
> >
> > Needed for SDR project as external clock source.
> >
> > -pete
> > ___
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> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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Re: [time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?

[Jerry Hancock]

For and RSP?  I used an HP 3325 locked to my Cs beam and took the signal from 
the back.  I think I paid no more than $100 for the 3325a and one I got for 
free.

Regards,

Jerry


> On Apr 11, 2018, at 4:49 AM, jster...@att.net wrote:
> 
> Leo Bodnar GPSDO - adjustable Low-jitter GPS-locked precision frequency 
> reference 400 Hz to 810 MHz .  He has a new one, single output for 99 british 
> pounds.
> 
> Jerry NY2KW
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts <time-nuts-boun...@febo.com> On Behalf Of Pete Lancashire
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 6:00 AM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com>
> Subject: [time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?
> 
> Needed for SDR project as external clock source.
> 
> -pete
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Re: [time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?

[Jimmy D. Burrell]

Hi Pete,

Speaking from limited experience, I wonder if a garden variety OCXO at say 10 
MHz + some CMOS logic to act as a frequency multiplier might not fit the build? 
 Then again, perhaps 24MHz is a little fast for the logic chips.. not sure.

Hope this helps spark some discussion.

Jim…
N5SPE

> On Apr 11, 2018, at 5:00 AM, Pete Lancashire  wrote:
> 
> Needed for SDR project as external clock source.
> 
> -pete
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Re: [time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?

[jimlux]

On 4/11/18 3:00 AM, Pete Lancashire wrote:

Needed for SDR project as external clock source.

-pete


I assume you mean derived from a high quality 10 MHz.

some sort of discrete divide multiply?   divide by 5 multiply by 12?
A PLL with VCXO with good far out noise?  (sort of like "clean up loops" 
used for distributing 10 or 100 MHz )

A DDS (with internal multiplier)


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Re: [time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?

[jsternmd]

Leo Bodnar GPSDO - adjustable Low-jitter GPS-locked precision frequency 
reference 400 Hz to 810 MHz .  He has a new one, single output for 99 british 
pounds.

Jerry NY2KW

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts <time-nuts-boun...@febo.com> On Behalf Of Pete Lancashire
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 6:00 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com>
Subject: [time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?

Needed for SDR project as external clock source.

-pete
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[time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?

[Pete Lancashire]

Needed for SDR project as external clock source.

-pete
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