Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt EOL
While the mini-T is obviously not the same, the -E version many be nothing more than a RoHS compliant version of the original. I've seen many changes to devices/assemblies in the past year or two, but when the smoke clears it's nothing but a RoHS-related change. In fact, in many cases, there is no actual change in the device at all. It was always compliant but marketing wanted a *RoHS* part number. It's been driving me crazy... -Dave -- Original message -- From: Richard W. Solomon [EMAIL PROTECTED] It seems the T-Bolt is being replaced with a newer version. I wonder which ones we will be getting ?? http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-383748/TBolt%20EOL.pdf 73, Dick, W1KSZ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt EOL
Hi Tom, Not sure if Pb-free is the only change. We received feedback from someone that is evaluating the Fury GPSDO to replace the EOL Thunderbolt GPSDO in their application. They looked at the T-Bolt, T-Bolt-E, Mini-T, and Fury (the single oven, AT-cut, low-cost version - the double-oven Fury option would have performed better). Here are some abbreviated comments: With the announcement of the end of life for the Thunderbolt we have evaluated the Thunderbolt E, the Mini-T and now the Jackson Labs Technologies Fury as candidate replacements. Unfortunately none of them look to be suitable although there is an indication that the Fury is not far off... It appears that when both the Fury and the Thunderbolt E are at their best they are on a par with the Thunderbolt... They compared Phase Noise performance as well as stability. If the Thunderbolt-E is really just a Pb free version, then it may be unit-to-unit tolerance that is making the E perform worse than the original reference unit. Or Trimble may have resorted to a lesser OCXO to save cost and meet RoHS requirements. BTW, I wonder how the RoHS high-temp soldering requirements affect OCXO's, since the soldering temp now has to be significantly higher (to the point where non RoHS connectors can actually melt for example). In my opinion this can have significant negative impact on the Crystal etc, besides all the long-term reliability issues with Tin Whiskers.. bye, Said In a message dated 5/18/2008 20:46:33 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It seems the T-Bolt is being replaced with a newer version. I wonder which ones we will be getting ?? http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-383748/TBolt%20EOL.pdf We got late models from 2005+/-. It seems the newest ones (E suffix) are ROHS compliant. Other than the lead, I can't see a difference; does anyone know for sure? /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. **Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod000301) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt EOL
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com; time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 3:49 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt EOL While the mini-T is obviously not the same, the -E version many be nothing more than a RoHS compliant version of the original. I've seen many changes to devices/assemblies in the past year or two, but when the smoke clears it's nothing but a RoHS-related change. In fact, in many cases, there is no actual change in the device at all. It was always compliant but marketing wanted a *RoHS* part number. It's been driving me crazy... -Dave -- Original message -- From: Richard W. Solomon [EMAIL PROTECTED] It seems the T-Bolt is being replaced with a newer version. I wonder which ones we will be getting ?? http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-383748/TBolt%20EOL.pdf 73, Dick, W1KSZ Dave, They are getting the old version. Among the older units the only difference is firmware revisions. They are getting the board only version that requires +12, -12 +5 volts, not the 24 volt version you see on the larger Trimble photo of the complete unit. Apparently the E is an altogether different unit. Notice the antenna connection is lower than the other connectors. I would bet the newer unit has a stand-alone receiver in it. Also note it receives 12 satellites compared to 8 on the older version. Most other specs are about the same, performance wise. The old units have the receiver/timebase and associated electronics on a single board, all the coax terminals are in a line. The lower half of the unit in the Trimble photo has a 24 volt DC to +12, -12, +5 volt converter. The group purchased the older version of the board only in a separate smaller case. It requires +12, -12 +5 volt of which they have located a separate power supply for. == Trimble Thunderbolt ET GPS Discipline Clock Performance Specifications General: L1 frequency, CA/code (SPS) 12-channel continuous tracking receiver Update rate: 1 Hz 1 PPS accuracy UTC 20 nanoseconds (one sigma) 10 MHz accuracy 1.16 x 10 -12 one average) 10 MHz stability See graph on Trimble data sheet Harmonic level -40 dBc max Spurious -70 dBc max Phase noise: 10 Hz -120 dBc/Hz 100 Hz -135 dBc/Hz 1 kHz -135 dBc/Hz 10 kHz -145 dBc/Hz 100 kHz -145 dBc/Hz Holdover ±1 microsecond over 2 hours with a maximum ±15°C temperature change == Trimble Thunderbolt OLD Version Performance Specifications: General: L1 frequency, CA/ code (SPS), 8-channel, continuous tracking receiver Update rate: 1 Hz PPS accuracy: UTC 20 nanoseconds (one sigma) 10 MHz accuracy: 1.16 x 10E-12 (one day average) Interface Specifications: Prime Power: +24V and return using DC to DC power supply (19V-34V) Board uses +12V, -12V, +5V and GND Power consumption 15 watts (cold), 10 watts steady state Serial Interface: RS-232 through a DB-9 connector Serial protocoll: Trimble Standard Interface Protocol (TSIP) binary protocol at 9600, 8-None-1 Newer E Version Data Sheet: http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-383329/022542-010B_Thunderbolt-E_DS_0807.pdf Newer E Version Manual: http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-388613/ThunderboltE_UG_1B.pdf Older Version Data Sheet: http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-10015/ Older Version Manual: http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-10001/ThunderBoltBook2003.pdf ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt EOL
Phil, The T-E datasheet lists timing accuracy at +/-15nS (1 sigma), where did you get the spec that says 20? Also, the antenna connector on the T-E is a BNC, the old T has an F connector. Didier KO4BB -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of phil Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 4:00 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt EOL - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com; time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 3:49 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt EOL While the mini-T is obviously not the same, the -E version many be nothing more than a RoHS compliant version of the original. I've seen many changes to devices/assemblies in the past year or two, but when the smoke clears it's nothing but a RoHS-related change. In fact, in many cases, there is no actual change in the device at all. It was always compliant but marketing wanted a *RoHS* part number. It's been driving me crazy... -Dave -- Original message -- From: Richard W. Solomon [EMAIL PROTECTED] It seems the T-Bolt is being replaced with a newer version. I wonder which ones we will be getting ?? http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-383748/TBo lt%20EOL.pdf 73, Dick, W1KSZ Dave, They are getting the old version. Among the older units the only difference is firmware revisions. They are getting the board only version that requires +12, -12 +5 volts, not the 24 volt version you see on the larger Trimble photo of the complete unit. Apparently the E is an altogether different unit. Notice the antenna connection is lower than the other connectors. I would bet the newer unit has a stand-alone receiver in it. Also note it receives 12 satellites compared to 8 on the older version. Most other specs are about the same, performance wise. The old units have the receiver/timebase and associated electronics on a single board, all the coax terminals are in a line. The lower half of the unit in the Trimble photo has a 24 volt DC to +12, -12, +5 volt converter. The group purchased the older version of the board only in a separate smaller case. It requires +12, -12 +5 volt of which they have located a separate power supply for. == Trimble Thunderbolt ET GPS Discipline Clock Performance Specifications General: L1 frequency, CA/code (SPS) 12-channel continuous tracking receiver Update rate: 1 Hz 1 PPS accuracy UTC 20 nanoseconds (one sigma) 10 MHz accuracy 1.16 x 10 -12 one average) 10 MHz stability See graph on Trimble data sheet Harmonic level -40 dBc max Spurious -70 dBc max Phase noise: 10 Hz -120 dBc/Hz 100 Hz -135 dBc/Hz 1 kHz -135 dBc/Hz 10 kHz -145 dBc/Hz 100 kHz -145 dBc/Hz Holdover ±1 microsecond over 2 hours with a maximum ±15°C temperature change == Trimble Thunderbolt OLD Version Performance Specifications: General: L1 frequency, CA/ code (SPS), 8-channel, continuous tracking receiver Update rate: 1 Hz PPS accuracy: UTC 20 nanoseconds (one sigma) 10 MHz accuracy: 1.16 x 10E-12 (one day average) Interface Specifications: Prime Power: +24V and return using DC to DC power supply (19V-34V) Board uses +12V, -12V, +5V and GND Power consumption 15 watts (cold), 10 watts steady state Serial Interface: RS-232 through a DB-9 connector Serial protocoll: Trimble Standard Interface Protocol (TSIP) binary protocol at 9600, 8-None-1 Newer E Version Data Sheet: http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-383329/022 542-010B_Thunderbolt-E_DS_0807.pdf Newer E Version Manual: http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-388613/Thu nderboltE_UG_1B.pdf Older Version Data Sheet: http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-10015/ Older Version Manual: http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-10001/Thun derBoltBook2003.pdf ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.11/1422 - Release Date: 5/8/2008 5:24 PM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.11/1422 - Release Date: 5/8/2008 5:24 PM ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time
Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt EOL
The T-E datasheet lists timing accuracy at +/-15nS (1 sigma), where did you get the spec that says 20? Also, the antenna connector on the T-E is a BNC, the old T has an F connector. Didier KO4BB That data sheet does say 15. Some say 20 ! Perhaps ??? good question. http://www.stepgps.com/docs/Thunderbolt-E_%20Data%20Sheet.pdf F. BNC, rather minor unless you are looking for an identical drop-in replacement. I was referring to the guts as opposed to minor details. The unit they are getting is an altogether different unit from the E and they are getting the board only and in a case about half size to that trimble photo. It's a good unit, at least I've been happy with them. I'm sure you can always do better though. Phil ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt EOL Power Supply
I realize that the group purchase Thunderbolt's will come with a power supply. I am interested, however, in what others are using for their Thunderbolts as a PS, i.e. +12,-12,+5? Does anyone know which DC-DC converter Trimble has used in the pictured T'Bolts? Also, are the group purchase Thunderbolts new or pulled from equipment? Thanks. 73, Jim, N1JR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt EOL Power Supply
Also, are the group purchase Thunderbolts new or pulled from equipment? Pulled from equipment that was never delivered. So that is about as new as you can get. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt EOL
It seems the T-Bolt is being replaced with a newer version. I wonder which ones we will be getting ?? http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-383748/TBolt%20EOL.pdf 73, Dick, W1KSZ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt EOL
It seems the T-Bolt is being replaced with a newer version. I wonder which ones we will be getting ?? http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-383748/TBolt%20EOL.pdf We got late models from 2005+/-. It seems the newest ones (E suffix) are ROHS compliant. Other than the lead, I can't see a difference; does anyone know for sure? /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt EOL
Connector layout on the E version is different, so for sure it's a different design. Also, the PPS acuracy is 15nS versus 20nS (1 sigma) for the older model. I have not looked farther than that in the spec. Didier -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Van Baak Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 10:44 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt EOL It seems the T-Bolt is being replaced with a newer version. I wonder which ones we will be getting ?? http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-383748/TBolt%20EOL .pdf We got late models from 2005+/-. It seems the newest ones (E suffix) are ROHS compliant. Other than the lead, I can't see a difference; does anyone know for sure? /tvb Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.11/1422 - Release Date: 5/8/2008 5:24 PM ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
