Re: [time-nuts] Yb clock - NPR Story on Atomic Clocks
Hi all, I'm new to this list, but papers like the recent Yb Science or the Sr PRL from last year will almost always have freely available draft versions on the ArXiv. It's usually easiest to search for the PI's name to find all the things they have ever uploaded. The Yb clock is probably less expensive to run than the Cs clock but that's probably just cause Andrew has a smaller staff than the Cs fountains. The two reasons they can't just switch over to a Yb standard are: 1) they don't have an accuracy table yet and 2) switching the standard just doesn't seem like it's going to happen any time soon. There are a variety of reasons why they don't switch, but mostly it's because there are very few applications, at this specific moment that, that require better standards. That being said, based upon relativistic geodesy alone, optical lattice clocks will make a big difference in taking those measurements. The averaging time of OLCs is just so much better than the single-ion based standards (which are still the most accurate standards in the world... At least for now ). - Ben On Aug 23, 2013 7:54 PM, Tom Van Baak (lab) t...@leapsecond.com wrote: All NIST papers are available for free. Makes you happy to be a taxpayer. The one you're talking about is at: http://tf.boulder.nist.gov/general/pdf/2688.pdf /tvb (iPhone4) On Aug 23, 2013, at 3:03 PM, John Miles j...@miles.io wrote: Don't you just love paying to access research that your taxes already paid for? Gives you a warm, fuzzy feeling all over. :-P -- john, KE5FX Miles Design LLC -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of David McGaw Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 11:06 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Yb clock - NPR Story on Atomic Clocks Here is an announcement article: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2013/08/21/science.1240420.full David On 8/23/13 10:51 AM, Frank Stellmach wrote: Wow, this new type of clock is not even 100 times more longterm stable than the Cs fountain clock, it's even short-term stable as a H-maser, obviously. In the NIST article: http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/clock-082213.cfm it's told, that the 1s instability is the same as the 400,000 sec or 5 days stability of the Cs fountain clock, ie. 1e-15..1e-16, I assume. Perhaps NIST can provide the Allan deviation already. Frank ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time- nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Yb clock - NPR Story on Atomic Clocks
Really?? Totally inappropriate comment for this list. Now, now, perhaps it is better to feed the (GOP) pigs than let them ban the research altogether as not conforming to their simplistic world view... -- Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, d...@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493 An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten 'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole - in celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now either. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Yb clock - NPR Story on Atomic Clocks
Hi Hal, About Moore's law -- to appreciate how far this Time Frequency field has come, the very first paper in the NIST archive, from 1949, describes the 23.87 GHz ammonia molecule clock, which was accurate to 1e-7 (yes, less than laboratory quartz or precision pendulum): An Atomic Standard of Frequency and Time http://tf.boulder.nist.gov/general/pdf/1.pdf For those computer history nuts among us, don't miss the preceding article in the PDF which mentions NBS/NIST's first computer (2.75 kbyte memory, 864 microsecond addition time). Comparing the ammonia clock with the Yb clock, that's 11 decades of atomic clock improvement over a span of 60 years. Meanwhile my laptop has 6 or 7 decades more memory and cpu speed than the NBS computer from 60 years ago. You see who's winning the Moore's law race... /tvb - Original Message - From: Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Yb clock - NPR Story on Atomic Clocks Optical clocks keep getting a little bit better each time they try this or that. They still have a way to go before you will have one running 24/7/365 without it costing more than even NIST can afford to spend. From Daniel Kleppner's Time Too Good to Be True Physics Today, March 2006 http://scitation.aip.org/journals/doc/PHTOAD-ft/vol_59/iss_3/10_1.shtml The accuracy of these clocks has improved by roughly a factor of 10 every decade since they were introduced in the mid-1950s and in the next few years the accuracy is expected to reach 1 part in 10E16. Exponential, just like Moore's law. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Yb clock - NPR Story on Atomic Clocks
Wow, this new type of clock is not even 100 times more longterm stable than the Cs fountain clock, it's even short-term stable as a H-maser, obviously. In the NIST article: http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/clock-082213.cfm it's told, that the 1s instability is the same as the 400,000 sec or 5 days stability of the Cs fountain clock, ie. 1e-15..1e-16, I assume. Perhaps NIST can provide the Allan deviation already. Frank ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Yb clock - NPR Story on Atomic Clocks
Hi Optical clocks keep getting a little bit better each time they try this or that. They still have a way to go before you will have one running 24/7/365 without it costing more than even NIST can afford to spend. Bob On Aug 23, 2013, at 10:51 AM, Frank Stellmach frank.stellm...@freenet.de wrote: Wow, this new type of clock is not even 100 times more longterm stable than the Cs fountain clock, it's even short-term stable as a H-maser, obviously. In the NIST article: http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/clock-082213.cfm it's told, that the 1s instability is the same as the 400,000 sec or 5 days stability of the Cs fountain clock, ie. 1e-15..1e-16, I assume. Perhaps NIST can provide the Allan deviation already. Frank ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Yb clock - NPR Story on Atomic Clocks
Optical clocks keep getting a little bit better each time they try this or that. They still have a way to go before you will have one running 24/7/365 without it costing more than even NIST can afford to spend. From Daniel Kleppner's Time Too Good to Be True Physics Today, March 2006 http://scitation.aip.org/journals/doc/PHTOAD-ft/vol_59/iss_3/10_1.shtml The accuracy of these clocks has improved by roughly a factor of 10 every decade since they were introduced in the mid-1950s and in the next few years the accuracy is expected to reach 1 part in 10E16. Exponential, just like Moore's law. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Yb clock - NPR Story on Atomic Clocks
Here is an announcement article: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2013/08/21/science.1240420.full David On 8/23/13 10:51 AM, Frank Stellmach wrote: Wow, this new type of clock is not even 100 times more longterm stable than the Cs fountain clock, it's even short-term stable as a H-maser, obviously. In the NIST article: http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/clock-082213.cfm it's told, that the 1s instability is the same as the 400,000 sec or 5 days stability of the Cs fountain clock, ie. 1e-15..1e-16, I assume. Perhaps NIST can provide the Allan deviation already. Frank ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Yb clock - NPR Story on Atomic Clocks
Don't you just love paying to access research that your taxes already paid for? Gives you a warm, fuzzy feeling all over. :-P -- john, KE5FX Miles Design LLC -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of David McGaw Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 11:06 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Yb clock - NPR Story on Atomic Clocks Here is an announcement article: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2013/08/21/science.1240420.full David On 8/23/13 10:51 AM, Frank Stellmach wrote: Wow, this new type of clock is not even 100 times more longterm stable than the Cs fountain clock, it's even short-term stable as a H-maser, obviously. In the NIST article: http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/clock-082213.cfm it's told, that the 1s instability is the same as the 400,000 sec or 5 days stability of the Cs fountain clock, ie. 1e-15..1e-16, I assume. Perhaps NIST can provide the Allan deviation already. Frank ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time- nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Yb clock - NPR Story on Atomic Clocks
An even bigger problem is that once they decide they are not making enough money with it, it won't even be available at any price. Didier KO4BB John Miles j...@miles.io wrote: Don't you just love paying to access research that your taxes already paid for? Gives you a warm, fuzzy feeling all over. :-P -- john, KE5FX Miles Design LLC -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of David McGaw Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 11:06 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Yb clock - NPR Story on Atomic Clocks Here is an announcement article: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2013/08/21/science.1240420.full David On 8/23/13 10:51 AM, Frank Stellmach wrote: Wow, this new type of clock is not even 100 times more longterm stable than the Cs fountain clock, it's even short-term stable as a H-maser, obviously. In the NIST article: http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/clock-082213.cfm it's told, that the 1s instability is the same as the 400,000 sec or 5 days stability of the Cs fountain clock, ie. 1e-15..1e-16, I assume. Perhaps NIST can provide the Allan deviation already. Frank ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time- nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Sent from my Motorola Droid Razr 4G LTE wireless tracker while I do other things. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Yb clock - NPR Story on Atomic Clocks
On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 03:03:13PM -0700, John Miles wrote: Don't you just love paying to access research that your taxes already paid for? Gives you a warm, fuzzy feeling all over. :-P Now, now, perhaps it is better to feed the (GOP) pigs than let them ban the research altogether as not conforming to their simplistic world view... -- john, KE5FX Miles Design LLC -- Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, d...@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493 An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten 'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole - in celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now either. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Yb clock - NPR Story on Atomic Clocks
All NIST papers are available for free. Makes you happy to be a taxpayer. The one you're talking about is at: http://tf.boulder.nist.gov/general/pdf/2688.pdf /tvb (iPhone4) On Aug 23, 2013, at 3:03 PM, John Miles j...@miles.io wrote: Don't you just love paying to access research that your taxes already paid for? Gives you a warm, fuzzy feeling all over. :-P -- john, KE5FX Miles Design LLC -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of David McGaw Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 11:06 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Yb clock - NPR Story on Atomic Clocks Here is an announcement article: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2013/08/21/science.1240420.full David On 8/23/13 10:51 AM, Frank Stellmach wrote: Wow, this new type of clock is not even 100 times more longterm stable than the Cs fountain clock, it's even short-term stable as a H-maser, obviously. In the NIST article: http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/clock-082213.cfm it's told, that the 1s instability is the same as the 400,000 sec or 5 days stability of the Cs fountain clock, ie. 1e-15..1e-16, I assume. Perhaps NIST can provide the Allan deviation already. Frank ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time- nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
