Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 89, Issue 51
The idea that conversion to metric would require replacing all of the machine tools (lathes, mills, etc) is a myth. Any U.S. machine shop has walls and toolboxes covered in conversion charts, converting drill, screw, wire, sheet sizes from one crazy measurement to another. One single additonal conversion chart, inch to metric, and you can keep using your inch machines on metric projects. My mill has inch lead screws. I added a low cost digital readout with a little button to show inch or millimeter movements, and now I do everything in metric. No problem. Don Couch --- On Thu, 12/15/11, Dan Kemppainen d...@irtelemetrics.com wrote: From: Dan Kemppainen d...@irtelemetrics.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 89, Issue 51 To: time-nuts@febo.com Date: Thursday, December 15, 2011, 10:29 AM On 12/14/2011 3:59 PM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: It's not like metric is totally absent. We drink 2 liter cokes and defend ourselves with 9mm pistols. Our cars use mostly metric parts. Even ham radio operators, arguably the most jingoistic and set in the past bunch around, get on the 80, 40, and 20 METER bands. I agree with you, and funnily enough the rest of the NATO world uses 7.62mm and 5.56mm rifles. (Both were originally based on standard inch sized rifle cartridges designed in the US) The problem in converting to metric would require replacing a lot of tools. For example Mills, lathes, and other machining tools and measurement devices are expensive, and last for decades. I doubt many of the small tool shops around here could afford it.It's a great idea to standardize in theory, but in practice it becomes difficult. Maybe the whole world should standardize our language. We could all switch to Spanish or Latin or Chinese to speak with so we could all talk with each other. That would probably be more helpful to me on a daily basis, than having to switch measurement systems. While we're on the subject, let me throw time back into the mix. We use months and days for scheduling projects. Meanwhile some of our counterparts use calendar weeks. This is much more difficult to convert between than inch and mm. When is CW 36??? There I threw some wood on the fire too! Dan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 89, Issue 51
On 12/14/2011 3:59 PM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: It's not like metric is totally absent. We drink 2 liter cokes and defend ourselves with 9mm pistols. Our cars use mostly metric parts. Even ham radio operators, arguably the most jingoistic and set in the past bunch around, get on the 80, 40, and 20 METER bands. I agree with you, and funnily enough the rest of the NATO world uses 7.62mm and 5.56mm rifles. (Both were originally based on standard inch sized rifle cartridges designed in the US) The problem in converting to metric would require replacing a lot of tools. For example Mills, lathes, and other machining tools and measurement devices are expensive, and last for decades. I doubt many of the small tool shops around here could afford it.It's a great idea to standardize in theory, but in practice it becomes difficult. Maybe the whole world should standardize our language. We could all switch to Spanish or Latin or Chinese to speak with so we could all talk with each other. That would probably be more helpful to me on a daily basis, than having to switch measurement systems. While we're on the subject, let me throw time back into the mix. We use months and days for scheduling projects. Meanwhile some of our counterparts use calendar weeks. This is much more difficult to convert between than inch and mm. When is CW 36??? There I threw some wood on the fire too! Dan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 89, Issue 51
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:29 AM, Dan Kemppainen d...@irtelemetrics.com wrote: On 12/14/2011 3:59 PM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: It's not like metric is totally absent. We drink 2 liter cokes and defend ourselves with 9mm pistols. Our cars use mostly metric parts. Even ham radio operators, arguably the most jingoistic and set in the past bunch around, get on the 80, 40, and 20 METER bands. I agree with you, and funnily enough the rest of the NATO world uses 7.62mm and 5.56mm rifles. (Both were originally based on standard inch sized rifle cartridges designed in the US) The problem in converting to metric would require replacing a lot of tools. For example Mills, lathes, and other machining tools and measurement devices are expensive, and last for decades. Can you point one even ONE machine shop in the US that can make metric parts? Those guys would have gone out of business years ago. Also how many are still using hand cranks and reading veneer scales? Even small one man ships are using CNC now. The US is slowly converting. It will take a long time. Even now if you go to Home Depot and look at plywood you see the better (non construction) grades sold in even millimeters with the inches being some odd number of 32nds approximation. This will slowly creep into more and more products. So the debate is silly. If the US should convert??? No. the only question is how fast are we converting and when will we be fully converted. Not even if this will happen, it will. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 89, Issue 51
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:42 AM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: Can you point one even ONE machine shop in the US that can make metric parts? Those guys would have gone out of business years ago. Also how many are still using hand cranks and reading veneer scales? Even small one man ships are using CNC now. Obvious typo: Should read that can NOT make metric parts?The inability to make hard metric parts means you can NOT sell to many industries and the export market is also mostly closed to you. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 89, Issue 51
What I find interesting is that the first push for standardization, at least for machine threads, came from the manufacture of arms, the Springfield Armory, at the time of the Civil war. At that time, threads were a mixture of the then fledgling metric system (French) and a conglomeration of American threads. Thread shapes were quite different as well. The next big standardization came from- you got it- the automotive industry (SAE is of course Society of Automotive Engineers), and I guess, only a guess, that the reluctance to change to metric really came from the automobile industry. At one time, the Volvo had SAE, Metric, and Whitworth fasteners in it, and not too long ago at that. So, I think that manufacturing inertia rather than the housewife might be to blame for the US still being SAE and all that implies. As bolts go, so do the rest of the measurements. Don Chris Albertson On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:29 AM, Dan Kemppainen d...@irtelemetrics.com wrote: On 12/14/2011 3:59 PM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: It's not like metric is totally absent. We drink 2 liter cokes and defend ourselves with 9mm pistols. Our cars use mostly metric parts. Even ham radio operators, arguably the most jingoistic and set in the past bunch around, get on the 80, 40, and 20 METER bands. I agree with you, and funnily enough the rest of the NATO world uses 7.62mm and 5.56mm rifles. (Both were originally based on standard inch sized rifle cartridges designed in the US) The problem in converting to metric would require replacing a lot of tools. For example Mills, lathes, and other machining tools and measurement devices are expensive, and last for decades. Can you point one even ONE machine shop in the US that can make metric parts? Those guys would have gone out of business years ago. Also how many are still using hand cranks and reading veneer scales? Even small one man ships are using CNC now. The US is slowly converting. It will take a long time. Even now if you go to Home Depot and look at plywood you see the better (non construction) grades sold in even millimeters with the inches being some odd number of 32nds approximation. This will slowly creep into more and more products. So the debate is silly. If the US should convert??? No. the only question is how fast are we converting and when will we be fully converted. Not even if this will happen, it will. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 89, Issue 51
The laboratory where i work obviously reports results using the SI metric system. There is one exception though, and that is the energy side, specifically calorimetry. At first glance the calorimeters appear to normal(SI, that is). They take mass in terms of the gram, measure temperature by degree Celsius, and internal calibration is stored as calories. The exception is the result is reported in BTU/ pound! How's that for mixing systems? On the electronics side of things it's even worse. Technical documents mixing and matching between systems. It's very common to see specifications cited partially in MKS and CGS with no correction terms. FYI: MKS = Milimeter Kilogram Second CGS = Centimeter Gram Second I've seen two other systems, but their names are eluding me at this time. Also, I've come across bolts that are not SI, nor SAE. I believe they are considered a british thread but i'm not certain. Steve On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Don Latham d...@montana.com wrote: What I find interesting is that the first push for standardization, at least for machine threads, came from the manufacture of arms, the Springfield Armory, at the time of the Civil war. At that time, threads were a mixture of the then fledgling metric system (French) and a conglomeration of American threads. Thread shapes were quite different as well. The next big standardization came from- you got it- the automotive industry (SAE is of course Society of Automotive Engineers), and I guess, only a guess, that the reluctance to change to metric really came from the automobile industry. At one time, the Volvo had SAE, Metric, and Whitworth fasteners in it, and not too long ago at that. So, I think that manufacturing inertia rather than the housewife might be to blame for the US still being SAE and all that implies. As bolts go, so do the rest of the measurements. Don Chris Albertson On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:29 AM, Dan Kemppainen d...@irtelemetrics.com wrote: On 12/14/2011 3:59 PM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: It's not like metric is totally absent. We drink 2 liter cokes and defend ourselves with 9mm pistols. Our cars use mostly metric parts. Even ham radio operators, arguably the most jingoistic and set in the past bunch around, get on the 80, 40, and 20 METER bands. I agree with you, and funnily enough the rest of the NATO world uses 7.62mm and 5.56mm rifles. (Both were originally based on standard inch sized rifle cartridges designed in the US) The problem in converting to metric would require replacing a lot of tools. For example Mills, lathes, and other machining tools and measurement devices are expensive, and last for decades. Can you point one even ONE machine shop in the US that can make metric parts? Those guys would have gone out of business years ago. Also how many are still using hand cranks and reading veneer scales? Even small one man ships are using CNC now. The US is slowly converting. It will take a long time. Even now if you go to Home Depot and look at plywood you see the better (non construction) grades sold in even millimeters with the inches being some odd number of 32nds approximation. This will slowly creep into more and more products. So the debate is silly. If the US should convert??? No. the only question is how fast are we converting and when will we be fully converted. Not even if this will happen, it will. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 89, Issue 51
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Steve . iteratio...@gmail.com wrote: The laboratory where i work obviously reports results using the SI metric system. There is one exception though, and that is the energy side, specifically calorimetry. At first glance the calorimeters appear to normal(SI, that is). They take mass in terms of the gram, measure temperature by degree Celsius, and internal calibration is stored as calories. The exception is the result is reported in BTU/ pound! How's that for mixing systems? On the electronics side of things it's even worse. Technical documents mixing and matching between systems. It's very common to see specifications cited partially in MKS and CGS with no correction terms. FYI: Correction MKS = Meter Kilogram Second CGS = Centimeter Gram Second I've seen two other systems, but their names are eluding me at this time. Also, I've come across bolts that are not SI, nor SAE. I believe they are considered a british thread but i'm not certain. Steve On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Don Latham d...@montana.com wrote: What I find interesting is that the first push for standardization, at least for machine threads, came from the manufacture of arms, the Springfield Armory, at the time of the Civil war. At that time, threads were a mixture of the then fledgling metric system (French) and a conglomeration of American threads. Thread shapes were quite different as well. The next big standardization came from- you got it- the automotive industry (SAE is of course Society of Automotive Engineers), and I guess, only a guess, that the reluctance to change to metric really came from the automobile industry. At one time, the Volvo had SAE, Metric, and Whitworth fasteners in it, and not too long ago at that. So, I think that manufacturing inertia rather than the housewife might be to blame for the US still being SAE and all that implies. As bolts go, so do the rest of the measurements. Don Chris Albertson On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:29 AM, Dan Kemppainen d...@irtelemetrics.com wrote: On 12/14/2011 3:59 PM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: It's not like metric is totally absent. We drink 2 liter cokes and defend ourselves with 9mm pistols. Our cars use mostly metric parts. Even ham radio operators, arguably the most jingoistic and set in the past bunch around, get on the 80, 40, and 20 METER bands. I agree with you, and funnily enough the rest of the NATO world uses 7.62mm and 5.56mm rifles. (Both were originally based on standard inch sized rifle cartridges designed in the US) The problem in converting to metric would require replacing a lot of tools. For example Mills, lathes, and other machining tools and measurement devices are expensive, and last for decades. Can you point one even ONE machine shop in the US that can make metric parts? Those guys would have gone out of business years ago. Also how many are still using hand cranks and reading veneer scales? Even small one man ships are using CNC now. The US is slowly converting. It will take a long time. Even now if you go to Home Depot and look at plywood you see the better (non construction) grades sold in even millimeters with the inches being some odd number of 32nds approximation. This will slowly creep into more and more products. So the debate is silly. If the US should convert??? No. the only question is how fast are we converting and when will we be fully converted. Not even if this will happen, it will. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 89, Issue 51
Those bolts would be whitworth. On Dec 15, 2011, at 14:43, Steve . iteratio...@gmail.com wrote: The laboratory where i work obviously reports results using the SI metric system. There is one exception though, and that is the energy side, specifically calorimetry. At first glance the calorimeters appear to normal(SI, that is). They take mass in terms of the gram, measure temperature by degree Celsius, and internal calibration is stored as calories. The exception is the result is reported in BTU/ pound! How's that for mixing systems? On the electronics side of things it's even worse. Technical documents mixing and matching between systems. It's very common to see specifications cited partially in MKS and CGS with no correction terms. FYI: MKS = Milimeter Kilogram Second CGS = Centimeter Gram Second I've seen two other systems, but their names are eluding me at this time. Also, I've come across bolts that are not SI, nor SAE. I believe they are considered a british thread but i'm not certain. Steve On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Don Latham d...@montana.com wrote: What I find interesting is that the first push for standardization, at least for machine threads, came from the manufacture of arms, the Springfield Armory, at the time of the Civil war. At that time, threads were a mixture of the then fledgling metric system (French) and a conglomeration of American threads. Thread shapes were quite different as well. The next big standardization came from- you got it- the automotive industry (SAE is of course Society of Automotive Engineers), and I guess, only a guess, that the reluctance to change to metric really came from the automobile industry. At one time, the Volvo had SAE, Metric, and Whitworth fasteners in it, and not too long ago at that. So, I think that manufacturing inertia rather than the housewife might be to blame for the US still being SAE and all that implies. As bolts go, so do the rest of the measurements. Don Chris Albertson On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:29 AM, Dan Kemppainen d...@irtelemetrics.com wrote: On 12/14/2011 3:59 PM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: It's not like metric is totally absent. We drink 2 liter cokes and defend ourselves with 9mm pistols. Our cars use mostly metric parts. Even ham radio operators, arguably the most jingoistic and set in the past bunch around, get on the 80, 40, and 20 METER bands. I agree with you, and funnily enough the rest of the NATO world uses 7.62mm and 5.56mm rifles. (Both were originally based on standard inch sized rifle cartridges designed in the US) The problem in converting to metric would require replacing a lot of tools. For example Mills, lathes, and other machining tools and measurement devices are expensive, and last for decades. Can you point one even ONE machine shop in the US that can make metric parts? Those guys would have gone out of business years ago. Also how many are still using hand cranks and reading veneer scales? Even small one man ships are using CNC now. The US is slowly converting. It will take a long time. Even now if you go to Home Depot and look at plywood you see the better (non construction) grades sold in even millimeters with the inches being some odd number of 32nds approximation. This will slowly creep into more and more products. So the debate is silly. If the US should convert??? No. the only question is how fast are we converting and when will we be fully converted. Not even if this will happen, it will. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 89, Issue 51
There's a system that the motorcycle guys call the Whitworth Inch, but I think may be more correctly called Whitworth Measure. It's an old British system that was used on their motorcycles and possibly cars, too. There's a whole subculture of people trading in Whitworth tools for BSA and Norton owners. -John I've seen two other systems, but their names are eluding me at this time. Also, I've come across bolts that are not SI, nor SAE. I believe they are considered a british thread but i'm not certain. Steve ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 89, Issue 51
The British Whitworth is a 55 degree thread instead of the 60 degree SAE. BTU is a British Thermal Unit, hence BTU/lb. MKS is Meter Kilogram Second, one of the precoursors to thee SI system. Steve . The laboratory where i work obviously reports results using the SI metric system. There is one exception though, and that is the energy side, specifically calorimetry. At first glance the calorimeters appear to normal(SI, that is). They take mass in terms of the gram, measure temperature by degree Celsius, and internal calibration is stored as calories. The exception is the result is reported in BTU/ pound! How's that for mixing systems? On the electronics side of things it's even worse. Technical documents mixing and matching between systems. It's very common to see specifications cited partially in MKS and CGS with no correction terms. FYI: MKS = Milimeter Kilogram Second CGS = Centimeter Gram Second I've seen two other systems, but their names are eluding me at this time. Also, I've come across bolts that are not SI, nor SAE. I believe they are considered a british thread but i'm not certain. Steve On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Don Latham d...@montana.com wrote: What I find interesting is that the first push for standardization, at least for machine threads, came from the manufacture of arms, the Springfield Armory, at the time of the Civil war. At that time, threads were a mixture of the then fledgling metric system (French) and a conglomeration of American threads. Thread shapes were quite different as well. The next big standardization came from- you got it- the automotive industry (SAE is of course Society of Automotive Engineers), and I guess, only a guess, that the reluctance to change to metric really came from the automobile industry. At one time, the Volvo had SAE, Metric, and Whitworth fasteners in it, and not too long ago at that. So, I think that manufacturing inertia rather than the housewife might be to blame for the US still being SAE and all that implies. As bolts go, so do the rest of the measurements. Don Chris Albertson On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:29 AM, Dan Kemppainen d...@irtelemetrics.com wrote: On 12/14/2011 3:59 PM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: It's not like metric is totally absent. We drink 2 liter cokes and defend ourselves with 9mm pistols. Our cars use mostly metric parts. Even ham radio operators, arguably the most jingoistic and set in the past bunch around, get on the 80, 40, and 20 METER bands. I agree with you, and funnily enough the rest of the NATO world uses 7.62mm and 5.56mm rifles. (Both were originally based on standard inch sized rifle cartridges designed in the US) The problem in converting to metric would require replacing a lot of tools. For example Mills, lathes, and other machining tools and measurement devices are expensive, and last for decades. Can you point one even ONE machine shop in the US that can make metric parts? Those guys would have gone out of business years ago. Also how many are still using hand cranks and reading veneer scales? Even small one man ships are using CNC now. The US is slowly converting. It will take a long time. Even now if you go to Home Depot and look at plywood you see the better (non construction) grades sold in even millimeters with the inches being some odd number of 32nds approximation. This will slowly creep into more and more products. So the debate is silly. If the US should convert??? No. the only question is how fast are we converting and when will we be fully converted. Not even if this will happen, it will. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is,
