[time-nuts] Can Lady Heather set PC time directly from a Trimble Thunderbolt?

[Chris Wilson]

  03/08/2017 14:50

I use an NTP client to set my Windows 7 64 bit PC time for digital
mode amateur radio activities, but I was wondering if my Trimble
Thunderbolt and Lady Heather can do the same job? If it can, how do I
do it please, and can the PC show GMT and not UTC, and finally does
the date glitch affect this? Lady Heather communicates with the GPS
via a true serial port. Thanks!

-- 
   Best Regards,
   Chris Wilson. 2E0ILY
mailto: ch...@chriswilson.tv

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Re: [time-nuts] Can Lady Heather set PC time directly from a Trimble Thunderbolt?

[Chris Albertson]

This idea keeps coming up.   "Jamming" the time from a GPS into a
computer is NEVER the best idea.  When you "jam" the time the PC
internal clock moves in  jerks and jumps where it will move forward
and even backward.

The only way that works well is to discipline the PC's clock using the
same method you'd use to discipline the crystal inside A GPSDO.You
compare the phase between the GPS and the local PC clock then adjust
the RATE of the PC clock to keep the peas in sync.   That is what NTP
does.

I say all of the above because this is a "timeouts" list.   If you
only care that the PC clock by "close enough" that the time printed on
the screen matches your wristwatch then a 50 millisecond error is
acceptable as that is about the limit of human perception.But it
you are a "nut" and want each millisecond of time to be reasonably
equal, that means with "tick" of the PC's clock to advance in time
about the same amount then you can't "jam" the PC's clock from GPS.
You will need to adjust the PC clock's RATE not the PC clock's PHASE.

On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 6:54 AM, Chris Wilson  wrote:
>
>
>   03/08/2017 14:50
>
> I use an NTP client to set my Windows 7 64 bit PC time for digital
> mode amateur radio activities, but I was wondering if my Trimble
> Thunderbolt and Lady Heather can do the same job? If it can, how do I
> do it please, and can the PC show GMT and not UTC, and finally does
> the date glitch affect this? Lady Heather communicates with the GPS
> via a true serial port. Thanks!
>
> --
>Best Regards,
>Chris Wilson. 2E0ILY
> mailto: ch...@chriswilson.tv
>
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> and follow the instructions there.



-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] Fwd: [hpsdr] SDR experiment for the solar eclipse

[Alan Melia]

A Time Nut would measure phase change across the path of totality using GPS 
locked SDR receivers :-)) As was done on the Eclipse that passed between the 
UK and Iceland a couple of years ago. Keflavik NRK's ionospheric signal was 
returned from inside the path of totality to most of the north of the UK, 
giving a good measure of the change in height of the "apparent reflection 
height" in the D-layer.


The quoted program looks a bit scattergun..lets record everthing and see 
what's there.
Hopefully it will involve a lot of school kids and maybe interest them in 
science and electronics. If it does that it will be more useful that we 
could imagine.


Alan
G3NYK

- Original Message - 
From: "John Ackermann N8UR" 
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 


Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2017 8:10 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] Fwd: [hpsdr] SDR experiment for the solar eclipse


This is a little off-topic, but thought some of the group might be 
interested... so please forgive the interruption.


John


 Forwarded Message 
Subject: [hpsdr] SDR experiment for the solar eclipse
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2017 15:07:57 -0400
From: John Ackermann N8UR 
To: fmt-n...@yahoogroups.com, HPSDR list 

* High Performance Software Defined Radio Discussion List *

I've been working with the "HamSci" group to set up an experiment for the 
solar eclipse: wideband recording of several HF bands before, during, and 
after the eclipse to look for propagation changes (or anything else that 
happens).  All are welcome to participate in the experiment, and this is a 
*perfect* application for our SDRs!


Here's the HamSci web page:
http://hamsci.org/2017-eclipse-hf-wideband-recording-experiment

Various SDRs and programs have wideband recording capability.

Radios that support the HPSDR "old protocol" (which include Hermes-based 
boards as well as the Red Pitaya and possibly others) can do an even 
better trick: they can record multiple slices of the HF band 
simultaneously, thanks to work by Tom McDermott N5EG.


Hermes can do 4 receivers (tested), Mercury/Metis/Atlas systems should 
handle 3 (not tested), and the Red Pitaya can support 6 (tested).  This 
means that we can record most of the 80M band, and all of 40, 30, and 20M, 
in one gulp to look for effects of the eclipse -- frequency shift, 
propagation enhancement/reduction, noise floor, etc.


I've written a Gnuradio .grc program that used N5EG's driver to record 
multiple receivers.  By default it's configured for four receivers on 
80/40/30/20M, but that's easy to change.  I'll be posting that software to 
the TAPR github at https://github.com/TAPR as soon as we've done a bit 
more testing.


This software runs on Linux and may work on Windows (I haven't had a 
chance to try, but Gnuradio has been ported to Windows).  Recording 4 
384kHz channels does take some computing horsepower and uses a lot of disk 
space -- about 3MB per receiver per second.  My prior-generation i7 
machine with solid state drive seems to handle it OK.


If you're interested in participating in this experiment, please (a) check 
out the HamSci web page; (b) check the ttps://github.com/TAPR in a day or 
two to grab the software and docs; and (c) feel free to contact me 
directly with any questions.


73,
John N8UR
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Re: [time-nuts] Can Lady Heather set PC time directly from a TrimbleThunderbolt?

[Adrian Godwin]

Could Lady Heather provide an NTP server so a local NTP client could access
the GPS time ? Or is that an overcomplicated way to do it?


On 3 Aug 2017 20:19, "David J Taylor via time-nuts" 
wrote:

> I use an NTP client to set my Windows 7 64 bit PC time for digital
> mode amateur radio activities, but I was wondering if my Trimble
> Thunderbolt and Lady Heather can do the same job? If it can, how do I
> do it please, and can the PC show GMT and not UTC, and finally does
> the date glitch affect this? Lady Heather communicates with the GPS
> via a true serial port. Thanks!
>
>   Best Regards,
>   Chris Wilson. 2E0ILY
> =
>
> Chris,
>
> If you have a PPS source you can use that directly with your Windows-7 PC.
> I have some notes here:
>
>  http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/Sure-GPS.htm
>
> Windows works internally in UTC, just choose your time zone from the
> Control Panel.  I'm guessing that you mean UK local time, as GMT and UTC
> are the same (at least as far as wall-clock time is concerned).
>
> 73,
> David GM8ARV
> --
> SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
> Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
> Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk
> Twitter: @gm8arv
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
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[time-nuts] Fwd: [hpsdr] SDR experiment for the solar eclipse

[John Ackermann N8UR]

This is a little off-topic, but thought some of the group might be 
interested... so please forgive the interruption.


John


 Forwarded Message 
Subject: [hpsdr] SDR experiment for the solar eclipse
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2017 15:07:57 -0400
From: John Ackermann N8UR 
To: fmt-n...@yahoogroups.com, HPSDR list 

* High Performance Software Defined Radio Discussion List *

I've been working with the "HamSci" group to set up an experiment for 
the solar eclipse: wideband recording of several HF bands before, 
during, and after the eclipse to look for propagation changes (or 
anything else that happens).  All are welcome to participate in the 
experiment, and this is a *perfect* application for our SDRs!


Here's the HamSci web page:
http://hamsci.org/2017-eclipse-hf-wideband-recording-experiment

Various SDRs and programs have wideband recording capability.

Radios that support the HPSDR "old protocol" (which include Hermes-based 
boards as well as the Red Pitaya and possibly others) can do an even 
better trick: they can record multiple slices of the HF band 
simultaneously, thanks to work by Tom McDermott N5EG.


Hermes can do 4 receivers (tested), Mercury/Metis/Atlas systems should 
handle 3 (not tested), and the Red Pitaya can support 6 (tested).  This 
means that we can record most of the 80M band, and all of 40, 30, and 
20M, in one gulp to look for effects of the eclipse -- frequency shift, 
propagation enhancement/reduction, noise floor, etc.


I've written a Gnuradio .grc program that used N5EG's driver to record 
multiple receivers.  By default it's configured for four receivers on 
80/40/30/20M, but that's easy to change.  I'll be posting that software 
to the TAPR github at https://github.com/TAPR as soon as we've done a 
bit more testing.


This software runs on Linux and may work on Windows (I haven't had a 
chance to try, but Gnuradio has been ported to Windows).  Recording 4 
384kHz channels does take some computing horsepower and uses a lot of 
disk space -- about 3MB per receiver per second.  My prior-generation i7 
machine with solid state drive seems to handle it OK.


If you're interested in participating in this experiment, please (a) 
check out the HamSci web page; (b) check the ttps://github.com/TAPR in a 
day or two to grab the software and docs; and (c) feel free to contact 
me directly with any questions.


73,
John N8UR
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Re: [time-nuts] Fwd: [hpsdr] SDR experiment for the solar eclipse

[John Ackermann N8UR]

That experiment is happening, too.  Folks will be monitoring WWV and CHU 
in narrowband mode with the same tools they use in the frequency 
measuring tests.  (You can't really do direct phase comparisons on HF 
frequencies because between the noise and the ionospheric effects, 
including doppler shift, it's really hard to lock to the RF cycle the 
way you can at VLF.)


We were originally going to put a 5071A-locked beacon on three ham 
bands, but decided WWV and CHU would be better sources, and logistics 
were turning into a problem: I'm going to be doing my wideband recording 
from a cottage in northern Michigan.  But I'm still a time-nut, so the 
receiver will be GPSDO-controlled, and there will be a stratum 1 NTP 
server in the cottage to provide timestamps. :-)


John

On 08/03/2017 03:57 PM, Alan Melia wrote:
A Time Nut would measure phase change across the path of totality using 
GPS locked SDR receivers :-)) As was done on the Eclipse that passed 
between the UK and Iceland a couple of years ago. Keflavik NRK's 
ionospheric signal was returned from inside the path of totality to most 
of the north of the UK, giving a good measure of the change in height of 
the "apparent reflection height" in the D-layer.


The quoted program looks a bit scattergun..lets record everthing and 
see what's there.
Hopefully it will involve a lot of school kids and maybe interest them 
in science and electronics. If it does that it will be more useful that 
we could imagine.


Alan
G3NYK

- Original Message - From: "John Ackermann N8UR" 
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 


Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2017 8:10 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] Fwd: [hpsdr] SDR experiment for the solar eclipse


This is a little off-topic, but thought some of the group might be 
interested... so please forgive the interruption.


John


 Forwarded Message 
Subject: [hpsdr] SDR experiment for the solar eclipse
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2017 15:07:57 -0400
From: John Ackermann N8UR 
To: fmt-n...@yahoogroups.com, HPSDR list 

* High Performance Software Defined Radio Discussion List *

I've been working with the "HamSci" group to set up an experiment for 
the solar eclipse: wideband recording of several HF bands before, 
during, and after the eclipse to look for propagation changes (or 
anything else that happens).  All are welcome to participate in the 
experiment, and this is a *perfect* application for our SDRs!


Here's the HamSci web page:
http://hamsci.org/2017-eclipse-hf-wideband-recording-experiment

Various SDRs and programs have wideband recording capability.

Radios that support the HPSDR "old protocol" (which include 
Hermes-based boards as well as the Red Pitaya and possibly others) can 
do an even better trick: they can record multiple slices of the HF 
band simultaneously, thanks to work by Tom McDermott N5EG.


Hermes can do 4 receivers (tested), Mercury/Metis/Atlas systems should 
handle 3 (not tested), and the Red Pitaya can support 6 (tested).  
This means that we can record most of the 80M band, and all of 40, 30, 
and 20M, in one gulp to look for effects of the eclipse -- frequency 
shift, propagation enhancement/reduction, noise floor, etc.


I've written a Gnuradio .grc program that used N5EG's driver to record 
multiple receivers.  By default it's configured for four receivers on 
80/40/30/20M, but that's easy to change.  I'll be posting that 
software to the TAPR github at https://github.com/TAPR as soon as 
we've done a bit more testing.


This software runs on Linux and may work on Windows (I haven't had a 
chance to try, but Gnuradio has been ported to Windows).  Recording 4 
384kHz channels does take some computing horsepower and uses a lot of 
disk space -- about 3MB per receiver per second.  My prior-generation 
i7 machine with solid state drive seems to handle it OK.


If you're interested in participating in this experiment, please (a) 
check out the HamSci web page; (b) check the ttps://github.com/TAPR in 
a day or two to grab the software and docs; and (c) feel free to 
contact me directly with any questions.


73,
John N8UR
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Re: [time-nuts] Can Lady Heather set PC time directly from a TrimbleThunderbolt?

[David J Taylor via time-nuts]

I use an NTP client to set my Windows 7 64 bit PC time for digital
mode amateur radio activities, but I was wondering if my Trimble
Thunderbolt and Lady Heather can do the same job? If it can, how do I
do it please, and can the PC show GMT and not UTC, and finally does
the date glitch affect this? Lady Heather communicates with the GPS
via a true serial port. Thanks!

  Best Regards,
  Chris Wilson. 2E0ILY
=

Chris,

If you have a PPS source you can use that directly with your Windows-7 PC. 
I have some notes here:


 http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/Sure-GPS.htm

Windows works internally in UTC, just choose your time zone from the Control 
Panel.  I'm guessing that you mean UK local time, as GMT and UTC are the 
same (at least as far as wall-clock time is concerned).


73,
David GM8ARV
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv 


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Re: [time-nuts] Can Lady Heather set PC time directly from a TrimbleThunderbolt?

[Martin Burnicki]

Adrian Godwin wrote:
> Could Lady Heather provide an NTP server so a local NTP client could access
> the GPS time ? Or is that an overcomplicated way to do it?

If LH can adjust the system time (I don't know if it can) then you could
in addition install ntpd and configure the "local clock" 127.127.1.0 as
the only reference time source.

Then ntpd does not adjust the system time but makes the adjusted system
time available to NTP clients on the network.

Martin

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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt question

[Chris Waldrup]

Thank you Didier. 
I'll check tomorrow for further issues. 

Chris 

> On Aug 3, 2017, at 10:05 PM, Didier Juges  wrote:
> 
> "If the Thunderbolt loses satellites, does it still put out a 10 Mhz
> signal?"
> 
> Yes of course. When that happens, the Thunderbolt is said to be in holdover.
> 
>> On Aug 3, 2017 9:29 PM, "Chris Waldrup"  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I just noticed the laptop that is always connected to my Thunderbolt had a
>> yellow block under COM1 on the Tboltmon program where it normally is green.
>> Also the date up on the screen was in early July. Satellites were still
>> shown.
>> The counter I leave connected still shows a 10 Mhz output.
>> I reset the program and this time all fields are ??? and com not detected.
>> I had thought maybe the laptop hung up.
>> I'll look at my system tomorrow. I'm trying to do a divide and conquer. If
>> the Thunderbolt loses satellites, does it still put out a 10 Mhz signal?
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> Chris
>> KD4PBJ
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt question

[Didier Juges]

"If the Thunderbolt loses satellites, does it still put out a 10 Mhz
signal?"

Yes of course. When that happens, the Thunderbolt is said to be in holdover.

On Aug 3, 2017 9:29 PM, "Chris Waldrup"  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I just noticed the laptop that is always connected to my Thunderbolt had a
> yellow block under COM1 on the Tboltmon program where it normally is green.
> Also the date up on the screen was in early July. Satellites were still
> shown.
> The counter I leave connected still shows a 10 Mhz output.
> I reset the program and this time all fields are ??? and com not detected.
> I had thought maybe the laptop hung up.
> I'll look at my system tomorrow. I'm trying to do a divide and conquer. If
> the Thunderbolt loses satellites, does it still put out a 10 Mhz signal?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Chris
> KD4PBJ
> ___
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> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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[time-nuts] Thunderbolt question

[Chris Waldrup]

Hi,

I just noticed the laptop that is always connected to my Thunderbolt had a 
yellow block under COM1 on the Tboltmon program where it normally is green. 
Also the date up on the screen was in early July. Satellites were still shown. 
The counter I leave connected still shows a 10 Mhz output. 
I reset the program and this time all fields are ??? and com not detected. 
I had thought maybe the laptop hung up. 
I'll look at my system tomorrow. I'm trying to do a divide and conquer. If the 
Thunderbolt loses satellites, does it still put out a 10 Mhz signal?

Thank you.  

Chris
KD4PBJ
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Re: [time-nuts] Fwd: [hpsdr] SDR experiment for the solar eclipse

[Alan Melia]

Hi John appreciate the problems at HF, and Boulder is very close to the 
track of the totality to use WWVB  Enjoy the event hope you record some 
interesting effects.


Best Wishes
Alan
G3NYK

- Original Message - 
From: "John Ackermann N8UR" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2017 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Fwd: [hpsdr] SDR experiment for the solar eclipse


That experiment is happening, too.  Folks will be monitoring WWV and CHU 
in narrowband mode with the same tools they use in the frequency measuring 
tests.  (You can't really do direct phase comparisons on HF frequencies 
because between the noise and the ionospheric effects, including doppler 
shift, it's really hard to lock to the RF cycle the way you can at VLF.)


We were originally going to put a 5071A-locked beacon on three ham bands, 
but decided WWV and CHU would be better sources, and logistics were 
turning into a problem: I'm going to be doing my wideband recording from a 
cottage in northern Michigan.  But I'm still a time-nut, so the receiver 
will be GPSDO-controlled, and there will be a stratum 1 NTP server in the 
cottage to provide timestamps. :-)


John

On 08/03/2017 03:57 PM, Alan Melia wrote:
A Time Nut would measure phase change across the path of totality using 
GPS locked SDR receivers :-)) As was done on the Eclipse that passed 
between the UK and Iceland a couple of years ago. Keflavik NRK's 
ionospheric signal was returned from inside the path of totality to most 
of the north of the UK, giving a good measure of the change in height of 
the "apparent reflection height" in the D-layer.


The quoted program looks a bit scattergun..lets record everthing and 
see what's there.
Hopefully it will involve a lot of school kids and maybe interest them in 
science and electronics. If it does that it will be more useful that we 
could imagine.


Alan
G3NYK

- Original Message - From: "John Ackermann N8UR" 
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 


Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2017 8:10 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] Fwd: [hpsdr] SDR experiment for the solar eclipse


This is a little off-topic, but thought some of the group might be 
interested... so please forgive the interruption.


John


 Forwarded Message 
Subject: [hpsdr] SDR experiment for the solar eclipse
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2017 15:07:57 -0400
From: John Ackermann N8UR 
To: fmt-n...@yahoogroups.com, HPSDR list 

* High Performance Software Defined Radio Discussion List *

I've been working with the "HamSci" group to set up an experiment for 
the solar eclipse: wideband recording of several HF bands before, 
during, and after the eclipse to look for propagation changes (or 
anything else that happens).  All are welcome to participate in the 
experiment, and this is a *perfect* application for our SDRs!


Here's the HamSci web page:
http://hamsci.org/2017-eclipse-hf-wideband-recording-experiment

Various SDRs and programs have wideband recording capability.

Radios that support the HPSDR "old protocol" (which include Hermes-based 
boards as well as the Red Pitaya and possibly others) can do an even 
better trick: they can record multiple slices of the HF band 
simultaneously, thanks to work by Tom McDermott N5EG.


Hermes can do 4 receivers (tested), Mercury/Metis/Atlas systems should 
handle 3 (not tested), and the Red Pitaya can support 6 (tested).  This 
means that we can record most of the 80M band, and all of 40, 30, and 
20M, in one gulp to look for effects of the eclipse -- frequency shift, 
propagation enhancement/reduction, noise floor, etc.


I've written a Gnuradio .grc program that used N5EG's driver to record 
multiple receivers.  By default it's configured for four receivers on 
80/40/30/20M, but that's easy to change.  I'll be posting that software 
to the TAPR github at https://github.com/TAPR as soon as we've done a 
bit more testing.


This software runs on Linux and may work on Windows (I haven't had a 
chance to try, but Gnuradio has been ported to Windows).  Recording 4 
384kHz channels does take some computing horsepower and uses a lot of 
disk space -- about 3MB per receiver per second.  My prior-generation i7 
machine with solid state drive seems to handle it OK.


If you're interested in participating in this experiment, please (a) 
check out the HamSci web page; (b) check the ttps://github.com/TAPR in a 
day or two to grab the software and docs; and (c) feel free to contact 
me directly with any questions.


73,
John N8UR
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Re: [time-nuts] Fwd: [hpsdr] SDR experiment for the solar eclipse

[jimlux]

On 8/3/17 12:10 PM, John Ackermann N8UR wrote:

This is a little off-topic, but thought some of the group might be
interested... so please forgive the interruption.


Here's a time-nuts connection
some ionosphere scientists I've been working with suggest that you sync 
your SDR and make it receive ionosonde transmissions.  These are 
precisely timed to start at the top of the minute (hence the utility of 
a decent clock). They also have well characterized transmit power and 
pattern.


There are open source implementations of chirpsounder receivers for 
GNURadio and for platforms like USRPs.

Juha Vierinen at Univ of Tromso, Norway has been very active in this.

https://hackaday.com/author/jvierine/

http://www.sgo.fi/~j/gnu_chirp_sounder/



John


 Forwarded Message 
Subject: [hpsdr] SDR experiment for the solar eclipse
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2017 15:07:57 -0400
From: John Ackermann N8UR 
To: fmt-n...@yahoogroups.com, HPSDR list 

* High Performance Software Defined Radio Discussion List *

I've been working with the "HamSci" group to set up an experiment for
the solar eclipse: wideband recording of several HF bands before,
during, and after the eclipse to look for propagation changes (or
anything else that happens).  All are welcome to participate in the
experiment, and this is a *perfect* application for our SDRs!

Here's the HamSci web page:
http://hamsci.org/2017-eclipse-hf-wideband-recording-experiment

Various SDRs and programs have wideband recording capability.

Radios that support the HPSDR "old protocol" (which include Hermes-based
boards as well as the Red Pitaya and possibly others) can do an even
better trick: they can record multiple slices of the HF band
simultaneously, thanks to work by Tom McDermott N5EG.

Hermes can do 4 receivers (tested), Mercury/Metis/Atlas systems should
handle 3 (not tested), and the Red Pitaya can support 6 (tested).  This
means that we can record most of the 80M band, and all of 40, 30, and
20M, in one gulp to look for effects of the eclipse -- frequency shift,
propagation enhancement/reduction, noise floor, etc.

I've written a Gnuradio .grc program that used N5EG's driver to record
multiple receivers.  By default it's configured for four receivers on
80/40/30/20M, but that's easy to change.  I'll be posting that software
to the TAPR github at https://github.com/TAPR as soon as we've done a
bit more testing.

This software runs on Linux and may work on Windows (I haven't had a
chance to try, but Gnuradio has been ported to Windows).  Recording 4
384kHz channels does take some computing horsepower and uses a lot of
disk space -- about 3MB per receiver per second.  My prior-generation i7
machine with solid state drive seems to handle it OK.

If you're interested in participating in this experiment, please (a)
check out the HamSci web page; (b) check the ttps://github.com/TAPR in a
day or two to grab the software and docs; and (c) feel free to contact
me directly with any questions.

73,
John N8UR
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