Re: [time-nuts] Lost GPS lock or 1PPS recently?
Not a time-nut issue but most banks that batch process will process the
debits before the credit so that they get to charge you no matter what.
They probably don't all do it but some definitely do. I had one bank even
charge me multiple overdraft fees because they processed the largest checks
first, before the smaller ones in order to get my balance negative before
processing the smaller checks in order to maximize the fees. If the
transactions had been processed in the actual order, there would have been
no overdraft fee.
When I asked, they said the debits were processed electronically
(immediately) but the deposits (which I made by cash at the front desk)
were sent to a central office across the state BY MAIL for reconciliation,
and therefore processed (and credited to my account) several days later. I
did not remain a customer very long after that.
They closed in the 90s when it was revealed they were laundering money for
major drug traffickers.
But I see your point :)
On Sep 8, 2018 9:26 AM, "jimlux" wrote:
On 9/7/18 10:05 PM, John Reid wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>
> discussion of how to keep accurate time without access to GPS seems very
> on topic to me.
>
>
> These people involved in major catastrophe ('end of the world' as you
> put it) scenarios have a wealth of experience in other ways of keeping
> accurate time.
>
Actually, they don't necessarily have a wealth of experience, because
they may have marched themselves down a path where they have a
*requirement* for much better timing than they realize, because it is so
easy and cheap to get good time today.
Imagine this scenario - you're a bank, and you batch process checks and
deposits in one physical location, so you don't much care about when the
check was written or the deposit made. Then you move to a distributed
system across the US, where the reconciliation is done on the basis of
the date of the transaction - still probably ok, because there are no
transactions during non-business hours, so as long as you reconcile at
1AM, if transaction time stamps are off by 5 minutes, it doesn't matter.
Now say "we're going to charge you, the customer a fee, if your balance
goes negative" and go to 24/7 operations, where transactions are
journaled immediately, rather than batch processed at night If a
deposit that was made at 12:00 (but timestamped 12:05) is followed by a
withdrawal made at 12:03 (but timestamped 12:00), you get unfairly
charged the overdraft fee.
For small problems, banks have ways to "unwind" errors. But if it
becomes a systemic thing that's a problem.
So the bank sets up GPSDOs at each transaction point - problem solved.
Until GPS fails.
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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB Chronverter update progress
Achim Indeed anything could be used if you want to modify the clocks. I don't. They do what they do very well and consume 0 power. Can be placed in any location in the house or garage and even the basement. Interestingly without the real wwvb I can orient them any way I want also. The last thing I want to do is hack them. But like you say if you are willing to hack a set of 3 wires will do very well. Or just leave them powered all the time. Many options. But many on time-nuts have these clocks and should wwvb be turned off its nice to know my weather stations will keep working and have the right time and far more accurately then my mobile phone. Last comment. Its a time nuts challenge just have to tinker and share. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 1:34 PM, Achim Gratz wrote: > paul swed writes: > > Hello to the group its time for a wwvb chronverter update. I used the > loop > > antenna as Alex suggested. I added caps to resonate it sort of. > > I am still a bit puzzled by this desire to feed the time in via LF > waves. Maybe WWVB clocks are more different from the MSF / DCF77 ones I > see around here than I thought. All of the ones I've looked at had a > small (but not tiny) module in them which does all the decoding and the > clock itself really only sees the decoded bits. The module typically is > only enabled around the update hour (mostly 4am, sometimes 2am) and > switched off for the rest of the day (unless they couldn't sync in the > about 15 minutes they usually keep trying). So if you really wanted to > wean these off their LF source, it would be much easier to just send the > time out via some ISM band (433MHz or 868MHz / 915MHz as appropriate for > your location) and replace the module with a different one that provides > the decoded bits these clocks expect, just from a different source. > Both the RX modules (actually I see only TX/RX combos at the usual > suspects) and the corresponding antennas (ceramic strip, helix or coil) > should fit nicely in the space formerly used up by the RX module and the > ferrite rod. You'd need another microC to convert the data or use one > of the modules that are programmable. > > > Regards, > Achim. > -- > +<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+ > > Wavetables for the Terratec KOMPLEXER: > http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#KomplexerWaves > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/ > listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Nulsom RS-232 for TTL conversions
An Easy Approach for TTL (3.3V or 5V) to RS-232 conversion, that fits INSIDE the DE-9 back shell. These Korean modules are popular with Arduino and AVR/ATmega users. Nulsom, Inc. (Korea) http://www.nulsom.com/ Available for purchase on Amazon, $9.95 USD Yes, I bought a couple, earlier this summer. The Nulsom NS-RS232 converter can operate at a data rate of 235 Kbps (230,400bps). The drivers can guarantee a date rate of 120Kbps (115,200bps) fully loaded with 3KΩ in parallel with 1,000pF, ensuring compatibility with PC-to-PC communication software. Available with DE-9F (-01 option) or DE-9M (-02 option). - Convert TTL (Transistor-Transistor Logic) level signals to RS232 interface - DE-9 connector (Male or Female) mounts inside back shell (RS-232) - Supports 3V ~ 5.5V power supply (Use on your 3.3V and 5V projects) - RTS, CTS (control lines) also available on circuit board (5-wire RS-232 support) Nulsom NS-RS232 User Manual http://www.nulsom.com/datasheet/NS-RS232_en.pdf == Digi-Key sells nice “hinged” or “one-piece” back shells. Such as the NorComp 972 series https://www.norcomp.net/rohspdfs/BackShells/AssemblyInstructions/Backshell-972Series.pdf greg, w9gb Sent from iPad Air ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWVB Chronverter update progress
paul swed writes: > Hello to the group its time for a wwvb chronverter update. I used the loop > antenna as Alex suggested. I added caps to resonate it sort of. I am still a bit puzzled by this desire to feed the time in via LF waves. Maybe WWVB clocks are more different from the MSF / DCF77 ones I see around here than I thought. All of the ones I've looked at had a small (but not tiny) module in them which does all the decoding and the clock itself really only sees the decoded bits. The module typically is only enabled around the update hour (mostly 4am, sometimes 2am) and switched off for the rest of the day (unless they couldn't sync in the about 15 minutes they usually keep trying). So if you really wanted to wean these off their LF source, it would be much easier to just send the time out via some ISM band (433MHz or 868MHz / 915MHz as appropriate for your location) and replace the module with a different one that provides the decoded bits these clocks expect, just from a different source. Both the RX modules (actually I see only TX/RX combos at the usual suspects) and the corresponding antennas (ceramic strip, helix or coil) should fit nicely in the space formerly used up by the RX module and the ferrite rod. You'd need another microC to convert the data or use one of the modules that are programmable. Regards, Achim. -- +<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+ Wavetables for the Terratec KOMPLEXER: http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#KomplexerWaves ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Can eloran Backup GPS?
Courtesy a quick internet search: http://insidegnss.com/south-korea-developing-an-eloran-network-to-protect-ships-from-cyber-attacks/ https://rntfnd.org/wp-content/uploads/Korea-Jamming-Chart.jpg There was lots of stuff like the above. It apparently just won't stay dead. It seems one doesn't need a cataclysm - just a bad actor like North Korea. Bob Martin On 9/9/2018 9:34 AM, paul swed wrote: The correction stream is transmitted in the eLORAN signal and does require some form of reference site to transmitter connection. Just like GPS and lightspeed use RF to send corrections to the satellites. Loran C also did the same adjustments from a control site. But I am hearing nothing about eLORAN these days. It does not show up very often anymore in some of the navigation publications. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 11:20 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message <3d2ae1be-927a-574a-e7f0-c7d2d289d...@earthlink.net>, jimlux writes: On 9/8/18 4:52 PM, paul swed wrote: I suppose you could have a low rate network (i.e. not "the internet") and for the most part, the propagation corrections (whether using 60kHz, Loran, Omega, or GPS) can be done with "climatology" - time of day and time of year. Transmitting real-time corrections is not the problem, coming up with them in the first place is. One of the reasons eLoran failed to go anywhere in europe is that tests showed that modern container freighters are big enough to 'relevantly disturb Loran-C'. Nobody has a clue how you could possibly measure the necessary real-time corrections for narrow and heavily trafficked straits like as The English Channel, The Great Belt etc. For big/expensive boats, INS/IMU is the goto-solution, at around $20-50k a piece, depending on specs. In difference from anything relying on radio signals from people you can maybe trust some of the time, INS/IMU is entirely on-board, which can lower your insurance premiums if you sail certain parts of the world. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/ listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Can eloran Backup GPS?
Hi Back in the day, Loran was monitored and corrections were published. If you really were “time nutty” about using Loran, you got the correction tables (in the mail) and post processed them into your measurements. Bob > On Sep 9, 2018, at 11:34 AM, paul swed wrote: > > The correction stream is transmitted in the eLORAN signal and does require > some form of reference site to transmitter connection. Just like GPS and > lightspeed use RF to send corrections to the satellites. > Loran C also did the same adjustments from a control site. > But I am hearing nothing about eLORAN these days. It does not show up very > often anymore in some of the navigation publications. > Regards > Paul > WB8TSL > > On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 11:20 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp > wrote: > >> >> In message <3d2ae1be-927a-574a-e7f0-c7d2d289d...@earthlink.net>, jimlux >> writes: >>> On 9/8/18 4:52 PM, paul swed wrote: >> >>> I suppose you could have a low rate network (i.e. not "the internet") >>> and for the most part, the propagation corrections (whether using 60kHz, >>> Loran, Omega, or GPS) can be done with "climatology" - time of day and >>> time of year. >> >> Transmitting real-time corrections is not the problem, coming up >> with them in the first place is. >> >> One of the reasons eLoran failed to go anywhere in europe is that >> tests showed that modern container freighters are big enough to >> 'relevantly disturb Loran-C'. >> >> Nobody has a clue how you could possibly measure the necessary >> real-time corrections for narrow and heavily trafficked straits >> like as The English Channel, The Great Belt etc. >> >> For big/expensive boats, INS/IMU is the goto-solution, at around >> $20-50k a piece, depending on specs. >> >> In difference from anything relying on radio signals from people >> you can maybe trust some of the time, INS/IMU is entirely on-board, >> which can lower your insurance premiums if you sail certain parts >> of the world. >> >> -- >> Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 >> p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 >> FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe >> Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/ >> listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >> and follow the instructions there. >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWVB Chronverter update progress
Hello to the group its time for a wwvb chronverter update. I used the loop antenna as Alex suggested. I added caps to resonate it sort of. This added a nice 6DB increase in output power as measured by a reference antenna to a HP 3586 slvm. I did try a transformer going from 50 ohm to .75 ohm of the antenna at 60 KHz. I fear the core material isn't correct. No matter lots of others I can try. Looks like the signal gets through 3 walls and some 30 ft. Getting to be Gud-enuf for setting clocks in the house. Input power to the antenna is approx -10 dbm. Plan to run the loop in the basement and that will cover the house. Bob you may want t reachout and get an updated software if yours is not V2. Bad news the DC60 expects the carrier to be within =/-.5Hz at 60 KHz I measured the tuetime and spectracoms. So I built a simple chain with atreasonable oscillator and simple modulator. The clocks lock up solid. Since then another time nut suggested using the common 15.36 oscillator that divides by 256 to give 60 KHz. Boy I sure would have liked to build the system using that simple divider chain. I used a 9.6 MHz osillator and divided by 160. Using TTL its what I had. So I must be consuming a mega-watt in the dividers. ;-) The key you need real divider chain and modulator and the DC60 will be very happy. By the way the chronveryer puts out the Julien date so the dc60 even displays that. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 3:06 PM, paul swed wrote: > The UnusualElectronics Chronverter with NEO 6 GPS, 9.6 MHz oscillator. > dividers and such are all up and working. Watching GPS time, Spectracoms > and Truetime clocks all tick at the same time while listening to WWV. > exactly as they should. Now I have a alternate for wall clocks should WWVB > be turned off. Though that said the next step is to test those out by > setting up an antenna. Then time to mount everything in a case. > If anyone else follows this path let me know offline happy to help you. > Regards > Paul > WB8TSL > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 11:36 AM, paul swed wrote: > >> Its a LPF and its not effecting anything. Square waves worked fine >> actually. But do want to be able to feed an antenna so a bit of filtering >> plus the loops stick should do the job. >> >> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 9:16 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote: >> >>> HI >>> >>> If you are feeding “Time Nuts” gear, a fancy filter on the output of the >>> WWVB gizmo may be an issue. Temperature impacts the value of the >>> components and that value change impacts the phase of the signal…. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> > On Aug 28, 2018, at 9:33 PM, paul swed wrote: >>> > >>> > LPF filter added 2.2mH choke to a .0022uf cap 1K R pretty simple and >>> > anttenuators and isolation to drive up to 4 receivers. >>> > Have not looked at the power amp and loops stick antenna yet. But it >>> really >>> > is time for GPS a neo. >>> > Looking very good. >>> > >>> > On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 7:29 PM, paul swed >>> wrote: >>> > >>> >> Ed appreciate the details but no intent to generally run a GPSDO in >>> fact >>> >> the 5 V @ 50 ma is a serious power pig. The chronverter draws 5 ma. >>> Clearly >>> >> the TTL is a heater. Chuckle. I do want to drive the chronverter with >>> GPS >>> >> as its designed for. >>> >> Whats pretty interesting is you can adjust its offset. I just jammed >>> time >>> >> into it several days and its been fairly good with power ups and >>> down. Its >>> >> impressive. Though not in an ultimate time-nuts way. >>> >> GPS just assures it is accurate. But there is a lot of flexibility. >>> >> Main goal of this whole project is to replace wwvb if it goes away. >>> If it >>> >> does the project doesn't even have to run 24/7. Fire up at 10 pm to 3 >>> am >>> >> and power down. Thats enough to set my wall clocks for a day. Its >>> just nice >>> >> to know it can also set the spectracoms and Truetimes. Icing on the >>> cake. >>> >> I am impressed with what Dave did with the 8 pin pic. He has all of >>> the LF >>> >> time signals in there. (No wwvb BPSK though) DSTs settings, zone >>> offsets, >>> >> half zones, etc. >>> >> Just looking at low pass filters for the 60 KHz ttl out right now. >>> Simple >>> >> LR or RC. Since this particular output feeds coax to the quality >>> receivers >>> >> I don't need to be that careful. Its working great without any >>> filtering. >>> >> Reality if it draws little power I will let it run 24/7 but then you >>> just >>> >> have to stick a display on at that point. >>> >> Regards >>> >> Paul >>> >> >>> >> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 7:11 PM, ed breya wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> Paul, >>> >>> If you're going to reference it from a GPSDO anyway, why worry about >>> a >>> >>> TCXO reference (and power too, for that matter). You can easily make >>> the 60 >>> >>> kHz from the 10 MHz. >>> >>> >>> >>> For example, with two 74HC390s and a 74HC86 you can make 50 kHz and >>> 10 >>> >>> kHz and mix them with one EXOR section of the '86 to have 60 kHz >>> available. >>> >>> Some fairly
Re: [time-nuts] Can eloran Backup GPS?
The correction stream is transmitted in the eLORAN signal and does require some form of reference site to transmitter connection. Just like GPS and lightspeed use RF to send corrections to the satellites. Loran C also did the same adjustments from a control site. But I am hearing nothing about eLORAN these days. It does not show up very often anymore in some of the navigation publications. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 11:20 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > In message <3d2ae1be-927a-574a-e7f0-c7d2d289d...@earthlink.net>, jimlux > writes: > >On 9/8/18 4:52 PM, paul swed wrote: > > >I suppose you could have a low rate network (i.e. not "the internet") > >and for the most part, the propagation corrections (whether using 60kHz, > >Loran, Omega, or GPS) can be done with "climatology" - time of day and > >time of year. > > Transmitting real-time corrections is not the problem, coming up > with them in the first place is. > > One of the reasons eLoran failed to go anywhere in europe is that > tests showed that modern container freighters are big enough to > 'relevantly disturb Loran-C'. > > Nobody has a clue how you could possibly measure the necessary > real-time corrections for narrow and heavily trafficked straits > like as The English Channel, The Great Belt etc. > > For big/expensive boats, INS/IMU is the goto-solution, at around > $20-50k a piece, depending on specs. > > In difference from anything relying on radio signals from people > you can maybe trust some of the time, INS/IMU is entirely on-board, > which can lower your insurance premiums if you sail certain parts > of the world. > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/ > listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Can eloran Backup GPS?
In message <3d2ae1be-927a-574a-e7f0-c7d2d289d...@earthlink.net>, jimlux writes: >On 9/8/18 4:52 PM, paul swed wrote: >I suppose you could have a low rate network (i.e. not "the internet") >and for the most part, the propagation corrections (whether using 60kHz, >Loran, Omega, or GPS) can be done with "climatology" - time of day and >time of year. Transmitting real-time corrections is not the problem, coming up with them in the first place is. One of the reasons eLoran failed to go anywhere in europe is that tests showed that modern container freighters are big enough to 'relevantly disturb Loran-C'. Nobody has a clue how you could possibly measure the necessary real-time corrections for narrow and heavily trafficked straits like as The English Channel, The Great Belt etc. For big/expensive boats, INS/IMU is the goto-solution, at around $20-50k a piece, depending on specs. In difference from anything relying on radio signals from people you can maybe trust some of the time, INS/IMU is entirely on-board, which can lower your insurance premiums if you sail certain parts of the world. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Can eloran Backup GPS?
Hi > On Sep 9, 2018, at 10:43 AM, jimlux wrote: > > On 9/8/18 4:52 PM, paul swed wrote: >> Hello to the group I won't quote figures here but did indeed help UrsaNav >> do testing. Hey 90 days with a HP 5071 that was a sweet deal at the cost of >> some power. >> They do send corrective data in the signal from reference sites and that >> helps propagation corrections in the receive software. >> It was impressive and even in buildings no less. Its been a while so thats >> why I don't want to quote figures. >> I sort of thought all of this would have been resolved by now. But nope not >> until the S.. hits the fan and finger pointing starts. >> I do know the other satellite system lightspeed? is trying to become an >> alternate. >> Regards >> Paul >> WB8TSL > > > > But here's the problem - if "the network" is wiped out, how do you send the > correction information? > > I suppose you could have a low rate network (i.e. not "the internet") and for > the most part, the propagation corrections (whether using 60kHz, Loran, > Omega, or GPS) can be done with "climatology" - time of day and time of year. > > BUT - if we're talking about a Carrington event or similar, a series of high > altitude nuclear bursts Actually, nuclear war *is* one of the things GPS is designed to withstand …. it still is very much a military system. The same thing is true of the Russian system and one would guess, the Chinese as well. Pretty much none of the systems that use fancy timing information are designed to survive a nuclear conflict. I would suggest that’s not a really big deal. Just as with super crazy solar events, many of us will not survive it either. For those who do survive, far more basic things will be top priorities. Sure glad this is on topic for TimeNuts … Bob > - the propagation is going to be totally anomalous anyway. > > If we're talking about a evil-doer taking down GPS AND "the network" > together, but not perturbing the ionosphere, there may be other things to > worry about - the network carrying "time" is also carrying all those high > value transactions, phone calls, etc. and that's probably a bigger business > disruption than losing network sync. > > So I think GPS actually works pretty well - it will provide good sync for any > non-global disaster. Likewise, a "campus" network will be able to stay > synchronized, because they've got wired connections. > > In a local disaster (hurricane, earthquake) it's likely that business has > been disrupted by the disaster sufficiently that time sync is less important. > > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Can eloran Backup GPS?
On 9/8/18 4:52 PM, paul swed wrote: Hello to the group I won't quote figures here but did indeed help UrsaNav do testing. Hey 90 days with a HP 5071 that was a sweet deal at the cost of some power. They do send corrective data in the signal from reference sites and that helps propagation corrections in the receive software. It was impressive and even in buildings no less. Its been a while so thats why I don't want to quote figures. I sort of thought all of this would have been resolved by now. But nope not until the S.. hits the fan and finger pointing starts. I do know the other satellite system lightspeed? is trying to become an alternate. Regards Paul WB8TSL But here's the problem - if "the network" is wiped out, how do you send the correction information? I suppose you could have a low rate network (i.e. not "the internet") and for the most part, the propagation corrections (whether using 60kHz, Loran, Omega, or GPS) can be done with "climatology" - time of day and time of year. BUT - if we're talking about a Carrington event or similar, a series of high altitude nuclear bursts - the propagation is going to be totally anomalous anyway. If we're talking about a evil-doer taking down GPS AND "the network" together, but not perturbing the ionosphere, there may be other things to worry about - the network carrying "time" is also carrying all those high value transactions, phone calls, etc. and that's probably a bigger business disruption than losing network sync. So I think GPS actually works pretty well - it will provide good sync for any non-global disaster. Likewise, a "campus" network will be able to stay synchronized, because they've got wired connections. In a local disaster (hurricane, earthquake) it's likely that business has been disrupted by the disaster sufficiently that time sync is less important. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lost GPS lock or 1PPS recently?
My company paid for my shield room the real trick was getting the door in which weighed 600-800 pounds. As to the old generator I restore old machinery as another hobby for the times I want to disengage brain. But photoetched brass id plates show so much more thought than thermal printed labels Content by Scott Typos by Siri On Sep 8, 2018, at 9:48 PM, William H. Fite wrote: We sound like we could be cousins, Scott. When we bought our current house, I discovered that the previous owner had built a Faraday cage in a small room off the basement. I put all my stuff in there. I also have a generator with magneto ignition so I should be good to go when the end-of-the-world arrives. > On Saturday, September 8, 2018, Scott McGrath wrote: > > Actually > > I do have much of my equipment inside a shield room, not for tinfoil hat > reasons but to keep experimental systems from causing interference and to > eliminate existing RF sources in the 800 Mhz to 8 Ghz range as error > sources in measurements. > > If one is concerned there are lots of old screen rooms coming up for sale > on e-bay as WiFi manufacturers prepare to dip their toes into bands above > 10 Ghz and many of the old ones were only good to 6-8 Ghz. > > As to backup generators I have a modern one and an ‘old school’ > mechanically governed one with magneto ignition.I keep that one mainly > because i like its Art Deco design.Sometimes bring it to local Ag Fair > to display among the gear from that era. > > Content by Scott > Typos by Siri > > On Sep 8, 2018, at 8:11 PM, William H. Fite wrote: > > > > Gentlemen, I've found this discussion interesting and informative. This > household works on quantum information theory rather than engineering so > there is much for us to learn. > > I must observe that if an event takes out the entire GPS system (which a > Carrington event would not do) we will have issues a great deal more > immediate and pressing than getting hyper-precise timing systems restored. > > And speaking of Carrington events, how many of us have our equipment > surrounded by Faraday cages and supplied with off-grid power? Because > without those, we won't have instruments to measure T at home or even in > a great many labs and businesses. > > Just a thought. > > > > >> On Saturday, September 8, 2018, Dana Whitlow > wrote: >> >> I argue that when the "big one" happens, getting back to where we are >> technologically >> will be in large part a bootstrapping kind of affair. And I believe that >> starting off with >> WWV* will be a far better starting point than starting with sun clocks > and >> dripping >> water. >> >> Dana >> >> >> On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 5:54 PM, Ruslan Nabioullin > >> wrote: >> On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 8:32 PM Bob kb8tq wrote: This is Time Nuts, not end of the world nuts ….. ... I think we’ve all heard plenty of “the world is ending” stuff. >>> >>> But the availability of a T service under adverse conditions and the >>> ability of a system which consumes a T reference to gracefully degrade >>> its functionality upon degradation or absence of reference input(s) are >>> features/figures of merit---I do not see how discussion of that aspect >> can >>> be considered to be offtopic. >>> >>> -Ruslan >>> >>> -- >>> Ruslan Nabioullin >>> Wittgenstein Laboratories >>> rnabioul...@gmail.com >>> (508) 523-8535 >>> 50 Louise Dr. >>> Hollis, NH 03049 >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/ >>> listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/ >> listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > > -- > Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government > when it deserves it. > --Mark Twain > > We may be surprised at the people we find in heaven. God has a soft spot > for sinners. His standards are quite low. > --Desmond Tutu > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/ > listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/ > listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > -- Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. --Mark Twain We may be surprised at the people we find in heaven. God has a soft spot for sinners. His standards are quite low. --Desmond Tutu ___ time-nuts mailing list --
