[time-nuts] Re: HP 5065A, no 2nd harmonic.
I can buy them here in Japan, made by a company called Sunhayato. Manufacturers link: https://www.sunhayato.co.jp/material2/afp02/item_598 Store link: https://www.sengoku.co.jp/mod/sgk_cart/detail.php?code=7ANT-L5H3 Seems like Elematec are the ones who might distribute Sunhayato stuff in the US, maybe: http://www.elematec.com/en/info/map/overseas/ Regards, Jared ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Wednesday, December 1st, 2021 at 11:18, Robert LaJeunesse wrote: > Drops in a hole in the PCB. I doubt that you could buy that exact one, it is > unusual and probably custom. Pin terminals and fork terminals are much more > common. The closest I could find to the pictured one are from Cambion > Electronics, which has (smaller diameter) hollow PTFE insulated press-mount > terminals available. No similar item shows at Concord Electronics, the other > common source. > > http://www.cambion.com/solder_terminals_ptfe_insulated_press_mount3_catalogue_parts_list.aspx > > This part has about enough room for 2, maybe 3, leads: > http://www.cambion.com/catalogue_page.aspx?ID=278 > > Bob L. > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 7:19 PM > > > > From: "Hal Murray" halmur...@sonic.net > > > > To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" > > time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > > > Cc: "Hal Murray" halmur...@sonic.net > > > > Subject: [time-nuts] Re: HP 5065A, no 2nd harmonic. > > > > lajeune...@mail.com said: > > > > > Judging from the teflon solder cup used I suspect insulation resistance > > > is a > > > > > > critical parameter. > > > > Could somebody please give me a lesson or pointer or ... > > > > I noticed something interesting in the picture. Is that just a ring on the > > > > surface, or a part that drops into a big hole in a PCB, or ??? > > > > Google for "teflon solder cup" didn't find anything interesting. What would > > I > > > > search for if I wanted to buy one? > > > > -- > > > > These are my opinions. I hate spam. > > > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send > > an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > > > > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an > email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: Lowest noise (phase noise and ADEV) method to achieve 10 MHz signal from 5 MHz input
Hi At some point you must go “inside” the loop (or your OCXO isn’t locked …). At that point, you run into the basic physics of frequency multiplication. Bob > On Nov 30, 2021, at 7:16 PM, Matt Huszagh wrote: > > Jürgen Appel writes: > >> Yes, this is a fundamental physical property which cannot be avoided. >> >> You can see it that way: If there is a given fluctuating time delay in your >> otherwise perfect 5 MHz signal, the amount of phase shift this time >> fluctuation corresponds to in a 10 MHz signal is simply twice as big as in >> the >> 5 MHz signal, simply because the phase evolves twice as fast at 10 MHz. >> >> This factor of two makes up the 6dB in noise power. >> >> If you divide the 6 dB noisier 10 MHz signal down again, (neglecting >> additional technical noise), you get the original performance of your 5 MHz >> signal back. > > Doesn't this assume that you inherit all the noise of the reference? For > example, the short-term stability of a GPS 1PPS signal is poor, but you > can still use it to discipline a VCO with much better short-term > stability and retain most of the short-term stability of the VCO. > > Matt > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an > email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: HP 5065A, no 2nd harmonic.
Drops in a hole in the PCB. I doubt that you could buy that exact one, it is unusual and probably custom. Pin terminals and fork terminals are much more common. The closest I could find to the pictured one are from Cambion Electronics, which has (smaller diameter) hollow PTFE insulated press-mount terminals available. No similar item shows at Concord Electronics, the other common source. http://www.cambion.com/solder_terminals_ptfe_insulated_press_mount3_catalogue_parts_list.aspx This part has about enough room for 2, maybe 3, leads: http://www.cambion.com/catalogue_page.aspx?ID=278 Bob L. > Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 7:19 PM > From: "Hal Murray" > To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" > > Cc: "Hal Murray" > Subject: [time-nuts] Re: HP 5065A, no 2nd harmonic. > > > lajeune...@mail.com said: > > Judging from the teflon solder cup used I suspect insulation resistance is a > > critical parameter. > > Could somebody please give me a lesson or pointer or ... > > I noticed something interesting in the picture. Is that just a ring on the > surface, or a part that drops into a big hole in a PCB, or ??? > > Google for "teflon solder cup" didn't find anything interesting. What would I > search for if I wanted to buy one? > > > -- > These are my opinions. I hate spam. > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an > email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: HP 5065A, no 2nd harmonic.
Hi Guessing at what you are looking at: Try to look for "teflon standoff" on Google….. Bob > On Nov 30, 2021, at 7:19 PM, Hal Murray wrote: > > > lajeune...@mail.com said: >> Judging from the teflon solder cup used I suspect insulation resistance is a >> critical parameter. > > Could somebody please give me a lesson or pointer or ... > > I noticed something interesting in the picture. Is that just a ring on the > surface, or a part that drops into a big hole in a PCB, or ??? > > Google for "teflon solder cup" didn't find anything interesting. What would > I > search for if I wanted to buy one? > > > -- > These are my opinions. I hate spam. > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an > email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: HP 5065A, no 2nd harmonic.
On 1/12/21 5:03 am, Jared Cabot via time-nuts wrote: Hopefully I can find something in Akihabara Yeah yeah, don't rub it in! :^) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: Lowest noise (phase noise and ADEV) method to achieve 10 MHz signal from 5 MHz input
Jürgen Appel writes: > Yes, this is a fundamental physical property which cannot be avoided. > > You can see it that way: If there is a given fluctuating time delay in your > otherwise perfect 5 MHz signal, the amount of phase shift this time > fluctuation corresponds to in a 10 MHz signal is simply twice as big as in > the > 5 MHz signal, simply because the phase evolves twice as fast at 10 MHz. > > This factor of two makes up the 6dB in noise power. > > If you divide the 6 dB noisier 10 MHz signal down again, (neglecting > additional technical noise), you get the original performance of your 5 MHz > signal back. Doesn't this assume that you inherit all the noise of the reference? For example, the short-term stability of a GPS 1PPS signal is poor, but you can still use it to discipline a VCO with much better short-term stability and retain most of the short-term stability of the VCO. Matt ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: HP 5065A, no 2nd harmonic.
lajeune...@mail.com said: > Judging from the teflon solder cup used I suspect insulation resistance is a > critical parameter. Could somebody please give me a lesson or pointer or ... I noticed something interesting in the picture. Is that just a ring on the surface, or a part that drops into a big hole in a PCB, or ??? Google for "teflon solder cup" didn't find anything interesting. What would I search for if I wanted to buy one? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: NTP Leap indicator set to 1 ! problems continue
I can see a handful of them in my ntp leap second monitoring data. https://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dwmalone/time/leaps/ntp2021Nov-leapbits.png The regular data for June and December is here: https://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dwmalone/time/leaps/ David. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: HP 5065A, no 2nd harmonic.
Did you take a picture showing where the thermal fuse is located? I've never opened a 10811.Sounds like a crude device as you described it. I've used thermal fuses as a safety feature for fast-recharge medical NiCd battery packs but those looked like big diodes.LarrySent via the Samsung Galaxy S20 Original message From: Jared Cabot via time-nuts Date: 11/30/21 9:35 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Cc: Jared Cabot Subject: [time-nuts] Re: HP 5065A, no 2nd harmonic. I was reading in a past thread on the time-nuts mailing list that the thermal fuses can occasionally spontaneously go open circuit with age, far more often than going open due to a real thermal fault.(I wonder how many have been discarded over the years due to this issue?)They appear to be constructed from two spring contacts held closed by wax. As the fuse heats up, the wax melts allowing the contacts to permanently open.It would appear that age can cause the contacts to open too... A common fix is a wire jumper (The fuse is conveniently socketed, so a resistor leg offcut makes a nice jumper).I plan to source a replacement thermal fuse, just to keep things a bit safer.Also, I did get the pictures, thanks for that! I replied directly just now.Jared.‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐On Wednesday, December 1st, 2021 at 02:05, Larry McDavid wrote:> Do these thermal fuses fail spontaneously or is there a common cause?> > If the "heater" transistor mounting screws were quite loose, those> > transistors themselves might have overheated and failed. But, a thermal> > fuse should fail by high temperature...> > Sounds like progress, though. Cold OCXO means low frequency.> > Jared, I sent you a private email with some pictures; did you get that?> > Larry> > On 11/30/2021 8:03 AM, Jared Cabot via time-nuts wrote:> > > Well, I found it, the thermal fuse is open circuit.> > > > If I briefly bypass it with a jumper wire, the oven pulls the expected current.> > > > Looks like I need something that will trip at roughly around 115C, rated to 1.0A> > > > (HP Part number 10811-80008)> > > > Hopefully I can find something in Akihabara to make it easier to get my hands on ASAP...> > > > Jared> > ...> ---> > Best wishes,> > Larry McDavid W6FUB> > Anaheim, California (SE of Los Angeles, near Disneyland)> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com> > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.___time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.comTo unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: HP 5065A, no 2nd harmonic.
Hi The thermal fuses die on their own far more often than they die protecting anything. The fuse is there to provide safety is certain odd situations. The simple answer these days is to replace it with a piece of wire. Bob > On Nov 30, 2021, at 12:05 PM, Larry McDavid wrote: > > Do these thermal fuses fail spontaneously or is there a common cause? > > If the "heater" transistor mounting screws were quite loose, those > transistors themselves might have overheated and failed. But, a thermal fuse > should fail by high temperature... > > Sounds like progress, though. Cold OCXO means low frequency. > > Jared, I sent you a private email with some pictures; did you get that? > > Larry > > > On 11/30/2021 8:03 AM, Jared Cabot via time-nuts wrote: >> Well, I found it, the thermal fuse is open circuit. >> If I briefly bypass it with a jumper wire, the oven pulls the expected >> current. >> Looks like I need something that will trip at roughly around 115C, rated to >> 1.0A >> (HP Part number 10811-80008) >> Hopefully I can find something in Akihabara to make it easier to get my >> hands on ASAP... >> Jared > ... > -- > Best wishes, > > Larry McDavid W6FUB > Anaheim, California (SE of Los Angeles, near Disneyland) > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an > email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: HP 5065A, no 2nd harmonic.
Yes the fuses can just fail like any fuse. But with the oven it pays to very carefully insure they didn't fail because of temp. and that they did there job. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 1:09 PM Dan Rae via time-nuts < time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > On 11/30/2021 7:19 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote: > > Hi > > > > Quick and dirty way to check the oven is to monitor current. It should > start out > > near the max rated power and drop back after a few minutes. > > And it's worth checking the thermal fuse, which I've had fail in a lot > of them. > > Dan > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send > an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: HP 5065A, no 2nd harmonic.
On 11/30/2021 7:19 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote: Hi Quick and dirty way to check the oven is to monitor current. It should start out near the max rated power and drop back after a few minutes. And it's worth checking the thermal fuse, which I've had fail in a lot of them. Dan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: HP 5065A, no 2nd harmonic.
I was reading in a past thread on the time-nuts mailing list that the thermal fuses can occasionally spontaneously go open circuit with age, far more often than going open due to a real thermal fault. (I wonder how many have been discarded over the years due to this issue?) They appear to be constructed from two spring contacts held closed by wax. As the fuse heats up, the wax melts allowing the contacts to permanently open. It would appear that age can cause the contacts to open too... A common fix is a wire jumper (The fuse is conveniently socketed, so a resistor leg offcut makes a nice jumper). I plan to source a replacement thermal fuse, just to keep things a bit safer. Also, I did get the pictures, thanks for that! I replied directly just now. Jared. ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Wednesday, December 1st, 2021 at 02:05, Larry McDavid wrote: > Do these thermal fuses fail spontaneously or is there a common cause? > > If the "heater" transistor mounting screws were quite loose, those > > transistors themselves might have overheated and failed. But, a thermal > > fuse should fail by high temperature... > > Sounds like progress, though. Cold OCXO means low frequency. > > Jared, I sent you a private email with some pictures; did you get that? > > Larry > > On 11/30/2021 8:03 AM, Jared Cabot via time-nuts wrote: > > > Well, I found it, the thermal fuse is open circuit. > > > > If I briefly bypass it with a jumper wire, the oven pulls the expected > > current. > > > > Looks like I need something that will trip at roughly around 115C, rated to > > 1.0A > > > > (HP Part number 10811-80008) > > > > Hopefully I can find something in Akihabara to make it easier to get my > > hands on ASAP... > > > > Jared > > ... > --- > > Best wishes, > > Larry McDavid W6FUB > > Anaheim, California (SE of Los Angeles, near Disneyland) > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an > email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: HP 5065A, no 2nd harmonic.
Do these thermal fuses fail spontaneously or is there a common cause? If the "heater" transistor mounting screws were quite loose, those transistors themselves might have overheated and failed. But, a thermal fuse should fail by high temperature... Sounds like progress, though. Cold OCXO means low frequency. Jared, I sent you a private email with some pictures; did you get that? Larry On 11/30/2021 8:03 AM, Jared Cabot via time-nuts wrote: Well, I found it, the thermal fuse is open circuit. If I briefly bypass it with a jumper wire, the oven pulls the expected current. Looks like I need something that will trip at roughly around 115C, rated to 1.0A (HP Part number 10811-80008) Hopefully I can find something in Akihabara to make it easier to get my hands on ASAP... Jared ... -- Best wishes, Larry McDavid W6FUB Anaheim, California (SE of Los Angeles, near Disneyland) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: Lowest noise (phase noise and ADEV) method to achieve 10 MHz signal from 5 MHz input
Hej, On Monday, 29 November 2021 04:29:58 CET Matt Huszagh wrote: > I've got a 10 MHz distribution amplifier and am considering purchasing a > 5 MHz reference. Most (not all) of my equipment accepts a 5 MHz > reference, but I'd like to be able to use the existing distribution > amplifier I have if possible. Therefore, I'm considering ways I might > generate a low-noise 10 MHz signal from the 5 MHz reference. > > An obvious way is to use a doubler. However, as I understand it, even an > ideal doubler will add 20log(2)=6 dB of phase noise to the 10 MHz > signal. Yes, this is a fundamental physical property which cannot be avoided. You can see it that way: If there is a given fluctuating time delay in your otherwise perfect 5 MHz signal, the amount of phase shift this time fluctuation corresponds to in a 10 MHz signal is simply twice as big as in the 5 MHz signal, simply because the phase evolves twice as fast at 10 MHz. This factor of two makes up the 6dB in noise power. If you divide the 6 dB noisier 10 MHz signal down again, (neglecting additional technical noise), you get the original performance of your 5 MHz signal back. Cheers, Jürgen ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: HP 5065A, no 2nd harmonic.
Well, I found it, the thermal fuse is open circuit. If I briefly bypass it with a jumper wire, the oven pulls the expected current. Looks like I need something that will trip at roughly around 115C, rated to 1.0A (HP Part number 10811-80008) Hopefully I can find something in Akihabara to make it easier to get my hands on ASAP... Jared ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Wednesday, December 1st, 2021 at 00:41, Robert LaJeunesse wrote: > That film cap does look a little cooked. Since it is a 2uF 20% 50V part a > more common 2.2uF 10% 63V part would likely be an acceptable substitute, and > basically still within overall tolerance. Judging from the teflon solder cup > used I suspect insulation resistance is a critical parameter. Be sure to > clean away any flux remaining after soldering. > > Bob L. > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 9:36 AM > > > > From: "Jared Cabot via time-nuts" time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > > > To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" > > time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > > > Cc: "Jared Cabot" jaredca...@protonmail.com > > > > Subject: [time-nuts] Re: HP 5065A, no 2nd harmonic. > > > > ... > > > > Also, I noticed that a 2.0uF, 20% film capacitor in there is looking like > > it's had a bit of heat-stroke. > > > > It measures 2.119uF, 0.22ohm ESR, with a dissipation of 0.004 @ 40V, @ > > 1kHz, so it seems to test ok. > > > > Does this look like it needs to be replaced (picture link below)? I can't > > find the same part on Digikey/Mouser, but it seems like Keysight have them > > as 'orderable' status. > > > > Details are as follows: P/N: 0160-4947 Part Description: Capacitor-Fixed > > 2uF +-20PCT 50V polyester metallized THT > > > > https://i.imgur.com/aZ0KUD8.jpg > > > > Thanks! > > > > Jared > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an > email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] NTP Leap indicator set to 1 ! problems continue
This is written at 2021-11-30 15:45 2021-11-27 00:00:00 NTP servers start advertising leap=1. 2021-11-28 00:00:00 Many of these servers execute leap procedure. Leap=0 no longer advertised (mostly) 2021-11-30 00:00:00 *Another set of NTP servers start advertising leap=1.* 2021-12-01 00:00:00 (predicted). Many of the second set of NTP servers execute leap procedure. 2021-12-01 00:00:00 (?) Unknown number of clients will execute leap procedure. By convention NTP servers wait until the last day of the month before advertising leap=1. Beginning 2021-11-30 00:00:00 I've seen 81 public NTP servers with the leap flag set. The flag flips between 0 and 1 on some servers. In older NTP implementations a single bad leap=1 indicator could propagate to other NTP servers. That may be happening now. (Newer ntpd versions implement a majority rule). I'm working with the NTP Pool folks. Perhaps some of the bad flags can be cleared. However, it is likely that some NTP clients will execute a leap second procedure in about 8 hours. NOTE: In past days this discussion would happen on the NTP mailing lists ( lists.ntp.org), but that mailing list is long dead. Steve Sommars ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: HP 5065A, no 2nd harmonic.
That film cap does look a little cooked. Since it is a 2uF 20% 50V part a more common 2.2uF 10% 63V part would likely be an acceptable substitute, and basically still within overall tolerance. Judging from the teflon solder cup used I suspect insulation resistance is a critical parameter. Be sure to clean away any flux remaining after soldering. Bob L. > Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 9:36 AM > From: "Jared Cabot via time-nuts" > To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" > > Cc: "Jared Cabot" > Subject: [time-nuts] Re: HP 5065A, no 2nd harmonic. > > ... > > Also, I noticed that a 2.0uF, 20% film capacitor in there is looking like > it's had a bit of heat-stroke. > It measures 2.119uF, 0.22ohm ESR, with a dissipation of 0.004 @ 40V, @ 1kHz, > so it seems to test ok. > Does this look like it needs to be replaced (picture link below)? I can't > find the same part on Digikey/Mouser, but it seems like Keysight have them as > 'orderable' status. > Details are as follows: P/N: 0160-4947 Part Description: Capacitor-Fixed 2uF > +-20PCT 50V polyester metallized THT > > https://i.imgur.com/aZ0KUD8.jpg > > Thanks! > Jared ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] crystal types
Folks working at KPH, RCA’s coastal marine radio station at Pt Reyes, California, asked the following question recently: It has been noticed that on (RCA) Radiomarine Corporation of America radio crystals that they have a type on the case. Some of the types noted are R1, R2, R5, RC-2A and crystal types for Aviation service start with AV. If anyone has reference material or hard evidence of what these types signify, please pass this forward so we can all know! Recalling that some discussions have occurred in the past on crystals, I wonder if anyone in our Time Nuts community can shed light on this “type” identification. Thanks. — Eric ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: HP 5065A, no 2nd harmonic.
Hi Quick and dirty way to check the oven is to monitor current. It should start out near the max rated power and drop back after a few minutes. Bob > On Nov 30, 2021, at 9:36 AM, Jared Cabot via time-nuts > wrote: > > Ok, so I carefully dismantled the OCXO and I may have found the culprit... > The screws holding the two transistors to the metal body were both less than > finger tight! > Don't know how that happened, so they were cinched up to 5in-lbs with the > torque screwdriver as per the service manual, and I'll give the thing a test > once it's all back together. > I'll have a dig around to see if I can find a small thermocouple or similar > to see what the oven temperature is at now. > > Also, I noticed that a 2.0uF, 20% film capacitor in there is looking like > it's had a bit of heat-stroke. > It measures 2.119uF, 0.22ohm ESR, with a dissipation of 0.004 @ 40V, @ 1kHz, > so it seems to test ok. > Does this look like it needs to be replaced (picture link below)? I can't > find the same part on Digikey/Mouser, but it seems like Keysight have them as > 'orderable' status. > Details are as follows: P/N: 0160-4947 Part Description: Capacitor-Fixed 2uF > +-20PCT 50V polyester metallized THT > > https://i.imgur.com/aZ0KUD8.jpg > > Thanks! > Jared > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > > On Monday, November 29th, 2021 at 06:30, wrote: > >> With that offset either the oven set point has changed or there has een a >> > >> component value shift in the oscillator circuit. >> > >> The easiest way to test is to stick in another 10811 if available. >> > >> You could also install one of the original 105 style oscillators if you >> > >> have one. >> > >> Cheers, >> > >> Corby >> > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an >> email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com >> > >> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an > email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: HP 5065A on ebay
It's only a 4 hour drive for me, so I seem to have a $400 advance :-), tempting. I've always wanted a HP5072. Many, many years ago, I got very far getting my HP5065 working, thanks to the very knowledgeable people in this list. Is it a common or well known failure mode, 9.2GHz PLL test fail? From: paul swed Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 15:11 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] Re: HP 5065A on ebay Poul-Henning Always fun to take a look and some very attractive starting bids. But then as time goes by it will get crazy as always. Then $400 or so in shipping and heavens knows what customes will be. Oh well nice to look. Thanks Paul On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 3:28 AM Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > ew via time-nuts writes: > > And there's a 5071A "for parts only" too if anybody feels like an > adventure: > > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/154720557764?hash=item2406105ac4:g:e~8AAOSwTP5hoOG3 > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send > an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: HP 5065A, no 2nd harmonic.
Ok, so I carefully dismantled the OCXO and I may have found the culprit... The screws holding the two transistors to the metal body were both less than finger tight! Don't know how that happened, so they were cinched up to 5in-lbs with the torque screwdriver as per the service manual, and I'll give the thing a test once it's all back together. I'll have a dig around to see if I can find a small thermocouple or similar to see what the oven temperature is at now. Also, I noticed that a 2.0uF, 20% film capacitor in there is looking like it's had a bit of heat-stroke. It measures 2.119uF, 0.22ohm ESR, with a dissipation of 0.004 @ 40V, @ 1kHz, so it seems to test ok. Does this look like it needs to be replaced (picture link below)? I can't find the same part on Digikey/Mouser, but it seems like Keysight have them as 'orderable' status. Details are as follows: P/N: 0160-4947 Part Description: Capacitor-Fixed 2uF +-20PCT 50V polyester metallized THT https://i.imgur.com/aZ0KUD8.jpg Thanks! Jared ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Monday, November 29th, 2021 at 06:30, wrote: > With that offset either the oven set point has changed or there has een a > > component value shift in the oscillator circuit. > > The easiest way to test is to stick in another 10811 if available. > > You could also install one of the original 105 style oscillators if you > > have one. > > Cheers, > > Corby > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an > email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: Oncore UT+ EEPROM -
The answers are the same that I have add a backup battery off board. However I do something just a bit different. I use 2 X AAA batteries in a holder external to the box. For easy inspection, voltage checks and super easy battery exchange. Save deracking and such. (Lazy) Good luck Paul WB8TSL On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 5:50 AM Angus via time-nuts < time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > > Off-board battery back up on these old receivers is easy as the back > up battery supply pin takes very little current. I usually used a > non-rechargeable lithium coin cell. > Keeping it separate from the GPS allows it to be easily disconnected > to clear the memory. > > > On Mon, 29 Nov 2021 23:06:31 -0500, you wrote: > > >I have an Oncore UT+ for a project and found that it works fine after > >updating the almanac and getting a 3D fix but it never stores my location > >coordinates in its EEPROM. Each time I power up it shows all zeroes in > Lat, > >Lon, Alt for about an hour or so until it finds satellites. With Lady > >Heather I tried entering my coordinates and this leads to faster tracking. > >Is this normal Oncore UT+ behavior? Any advice other than a battery > backup. > > > > > >Jerry NY2KW > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send > an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: Lowest noise (phase noise and ADEV) method to achieve 10 MHz signal from 5 MHz input
Your push-pull doubler is much nicer than my full-wave rectifier with Schottky diodes http://g4jnt.com/10MHzDist.pdf Andy www.g4jnt.com On Mon, 29 Nov 2021 at 15:42, Wilko Bulte wrote: > For those interested, Dave PA5DOF and your's truly are working to get the > doubler implemented that Luciano has on his website. The first PCB > prototype is in and has been built and works OK. Some minor tweaks/fixes > will be added to a V0.2 PCB. If there is interest I can share the Gerber > files. > > The doubler is intended to be hooked up to an Efratom MRK-HLN 5MHz Rb. Our > shack T equipment for the best part requires a 10MHz reference. > > Wilko > > > On 29 Nov 2021, at 10:35, tim...@timeok.it wrote: > > > > > > you can use this: > > > > > http://www.timeok.it/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/high-performance-frequency-doublerv1-31.pdf > > > > Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti > > tim...@timeok.it > > www.timeok.it > > > > Da "Matt Huszagh" huszaghm...@gmail.com > > A time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > Cc > > Data Sun, 28 Nov 2021 19:29:58 -0800 > > Oggetto [time-nuts] Lowest noise (phase noise and ADEV) method to > achieve 10 MHz signal from 5 MHz input > > Hi, > > > > I've got a 10 MHz distribution amplifier and am considering purchasing > a > > 5 MHz reference. Most (not all) of my equipment accepts a 5 MHz > > reference, but I'd like to be able to use the existing distribution > > amplifier I have if possible. Therefore, I'm considering ways I might > > generate a low-noise 10 MHz signal from the 5 MHz reference. > > > > An obvious way is to use a doubler. However, as I understand it, even > an > > ideal doubler will add 20log(2)=6 dB of phase noise to the 10 MHz > > signal. It seems like a possibly more expensive, but lower noise way > > would be to use a PLL with a divider that locks the divided 10 MHz > > signal to the 5 MHz input. If the time constant of the loop filter is > > set long enough, does this avoid the phase noise multiplication issue? > > From what I've gathered, this is a technique HP used in some of their > > gear. For example, the 8566 and 8340/1 lock a 100 MHz VCXO to an > > external reference with a PLL. > > > > Any other thoughts on this? > > Matt > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe > send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe > send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send > an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: Oncore UT+ EEPROM -
Off-board battery back up on these old receivers is easy as the back up battery supply pin takes very little current. I usually used a non-rechargeable lithium coin cell. Keeping it separate from the GPS allows it to be easily disconnected to clear the memory. On Mon, 29 Nov 2021 23:06:31 -0500, you wrote: >I have an Oncore UT+ for a project and found that it works fine after >updating the almanac and getting a 3D fix but it never stores my location >coordinates in its EEPROM. Each time I power up it shows all zeroes in Lat, >Lon, Alt for about an hour or so until it finds satellites. With Lady >Heather I tried entering my coordinates and this leads to faster tracking. >Is this normal Oncore UT+ behavior? Any advice other than a battery backup. > > >Jerry NY2KW ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: Oncore UT+ EEPROM -
- Original Message - From: Poul-Henning Kamp To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement , k1...@att.net Sent: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 02:43:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Oncore UT+ EEPROM - k1...@att.net writes: > I have an Oncore UT+ for a project and found that it works fine after > updating the almanac and getting a 3D fix but it never stores my location > coordinates in its EEPROM. Each time I power up it shows all zeroes in Lat, > Lon, Alt for about an hour or so until it finds satellites. With Lady > Heather I tried entering my coordinates and this leads to faster tracking. > Is this normal Oncore UT+ behavior? Any advice other than a battery backup. As far as I know, the EEPROM (Flash?) is only used for code. The almanac and other changing info is in battery-backed NOVRAM. -- And therefor your UT+ needs backup battery installed. Some do and some don't. It's an easy DIY. Bill Beam NL7F ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
