Re: [time-nuts] Li Ion Battery for HP 5065A
Alternatively, buy a suitably spec'ed BMS PCB from your favourite online parts site and populate it with 18650 batteries recycled from "dead" laptop battery packs. Total cost will be in the double digits. On 9/03/19 11:14 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote: Hi For 100 to 120 AH at 13.4V you will pay in the $900 to $1000 range (delivered) for the RV batteries with built in BMS. Capacity / price / current sale deal vary a bit manufacturer to manufacturer. Warranty also varies from <1 year to 10 years ….. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Li Ion Battery for HP 5065A
On 3/8/19 1:41 PM, ew via time-nuts wrote: A123 7Ah "brick" LiFePO4 who is the vendor?Bert Kehrren Here's one source https://www.buya123products.com/goodsdetail.php?i=1 ALM12V7 is what we were using, and yowza, the price went up $265 each.. Amazon has them for $140 which is closer to what we were paying.. Although ours were orange and black. More like this: https://www.amazon.ca/A123-Systems-ALM-12V7-B/dp/B008VVO6LE ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Li Ion Battery for HP 5065A
On 3/8/19 1:41 PM, ew via time-nuts wrote: A123 7Ah "brick" LiFePO4 who is the vendor?Bert Kehrren A123 was the vendor (they're the mfr) I just googled, and it looks like there's now several authorized resellers of the batteries. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Li Ion Battery for HP 5065A
On 3/8/19 15:41, ew via time-nuts wrote: > A123 7Ah "brick" LiFePO4 who is the vendor?Bert Kehrren I sent this information several days ago. I guess my message never posted. Check with Bioenno Power: https://bioennopower.com This may be a drop-in replacement: https://bioennopower.com/collections/12v-series-lifepo4-batteries/products/12v-8ah-lfp-battery-abs-sealed-black-case -- Brian Lloyd 706 Flightline Spring Branch, TX 78070 +1.210.802.8359 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Li Ion Battery for HP 5065A
Hi For 100 to 120 AH at 13.4V you will pay in the $900 to $1000 range (delivered) for the RV batteries with built in BMS. Capacity / price / current sale deal vary a bit manufacturer to manufacturer. Warranty also varies from <1 year to 10 years ….. Bob > On Mar 8, 2019, at 2:32 PM, jimlux wrote: > > On 3/8/19 5:38 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote: >> Hi >> If you are headed into a “cost is no object” sort of battery backup bank for >> the lab / shelter / cave >> there are some interesting options out there. The RV world is very slowly >> waking up to the fact that >> big heavy lead acid batteries may not be ideal. For a ghastly amount of >> money, you can now get >> 12V 100AH “drop in” (no they are not drop in) Lithiums with fully integrated >> BMS systems in them. >> They *appear* to be safe and come with cute things like 10 year warranties . >> Be aware that you >> can buy a nice 5065 on eBay for what a couple of them will set you back ….. > > I've used the A123 7Ah "brick" LiFePO4 that replace the standard Lead Acid - > they weigh a LOT less, and cost a LOT more ($100 vs <$10) - They're pretty > nifty devices. As you note internal battery management, built in (easily > replaceable) 30A fuse, etc. > > They weigh about 850g (vs 2.6 kg) and work well at low temperatures (-20C) > > One peculiarity is that if you discharge them below minimum voltage, they > cutoff and put out nothing. You have to put a charging voltage on them to > turn them back on. This fouls up some "smart" battery chargers which use > the "discharged" battery voltage to tell them that there's a battery > connected. So we always had our smart chargers for day to day use, but had a > couple wall wart trickle chargers around to turn the battery back on. > > 100 Ah would set you back well over a kilobuck. But, you would be able to > lift it without you going over the OSHA 55lb/25kg "one person lift" limit. > > > > >> In return for your massive cash outlay, you get a battery that does not >> outgas or have the need >> to be watered along with the plants. It has a much flatter discharge voltage >> curve than a lead acid. >> Their peak current vs voltage generally is better than a lead acid. The BMS >> may impact this if it >> is an issue in your setup. They also is a *lot* lighter / smaller for the >> same amount of useful >> capacity. The built in BMS *should* take care of all of the fiddly little >> issues that might burn the >> house down. Lots to like other than the absolutely giant hole in the wallet >> …. >> Bob > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Li Ion Battery for HP 5065A
A123 7Ah "brick" LiFePO4 who is the vendor?Bert Kehrren In a message dated 3/8/2019 4:03:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, jim...@earthlink.net writes: On 3/8/19 5:38 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote: > Hi > > If you are headed into a “cost is no object” sort of battery backup bank for > the lab / shelter / cave > there are some interesting options out there. The RV world is very slowly > waking up to the fact that > big heavy lead acid batteries may not be ideal. For a ghastly amount of > money, you can now get > 12V 100AH “drop in” (no they are not drop in) Lithiums with fully integrated > BMS systems in them. > They *appear* to be safe and come with cute things like 10 year warranties . > Be aware that you > can buy a nice 5065 on eBay for what a couple of them will set you back ….. > I've used the A123 7Ah "brick" LiFePO4 that replace the standard Lead Acid - they weigh a LOT less, and cost a LOT more ($100 vs <$10) - They're pretty nifty devices. As you note internal battery management, built in (easily replaceable) 30A fuse, etc. They weigh about 850g (vs 2.6 kg) and work well at low temperatures (-20C) One peculiarity is that if you discharge them below minimum voltage, they cutoff and put out nothing. You have to put a charging voltage on them to turn them back on. This fouls up some "smart" battery chargers which use the "discharged" battery voltage to tell them that there's a battery connected. So we always had our smart chargers for day to day use, but had a couple wall wart trickle chargers around to turn the battery back on. 100 Ah would set you back well over a kilobuck. But, you would be able to lift it without you going over the OSHA 55lb/25kg "one person lift" limit. > In return for your massive cash outlay, you get a battery that does not > outgas or have the need > to be watered along with the plants. It has a much flatter discharge voltage > curve than a lead acid. > Their peak current vs voltage generally is better than a lead acid. The BMS > may impact this if it > is an issue in your setup. They also is a *lot* lighter / smaller for the > same amount of useful > capacity. The built in BMS *should* take care of all of the fiddly little > issues that might burn the > house down. Lots to like other than the absolutely giant hole in the wallet …. > > Bob ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Li Ion Battery for HP 5065A
On 3/8/19 5:38 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote: Hi If you are headed into a “cost is no object” sort of battery backup bank for the lab / shelter / cave there are some interesting options out there. The RV world is very slowly waking up to the fact that big heavy lead acid batteries may not be ideal. For a ghastly amount of money, you can now get 12V 100AH “drop in” (no they are not drop in) Lithiums with fully integrated BMS systems in them. They *appear* to be safe and come with cute things like 10 year warranties . Be aware that you can buy a nice 5065 on eBay for what a couple of them will set you back ….. I've used the A123 7Ah "brick" LiFePO4 that replace the standard Lead Acid - they weigh a LOT less, and cost a LOT more ($100 vs <$10) - They're pretty nifty devices. As you note internal battery management, built in (easily replaceable) 30A fuse, etc. They weigh about 850g (vs 2.6 kg) and work well at low temperatures (-20C) One peculiarity is that if you discharge them below minimum voltage, they cutoff and put out nothing. You have to put a charging voltage on them to turn them back on. This fouls up some "smart" battery chargers which use the "discharged" battery voltage to tell them that there's a battery connected. So we always had our smart chargers for day to day use, but had a couple wall wart trickle chargers around to turn the battery back on. 100 Ah would set you back well over a kilobuck. But, you would be able to lift it without you going over the OSHA 55lb/25kg "one person lift" limit. In return for your massive cash outlay, you get a battery that does not outgas or have the need to be watered along with the plants. It has a much flatter discharge voltage curve than a lead acid. Their peak current vs voltage generally is better than a lead acid. The BMS may impact this if it is an issue in your setup. They also is a *lot* lighter / smaller for the same amount of useful capacity. The built in BMS *should* take care of all of the fiddly little issues that might burn the house down. Lots to like other than the absolutely giant hole in the wallet …. Bob ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Li Ion Battery for HP 5065A
Hi If you are headed into a “cost is no object” sort of battery backup bank for the lab / shelter / cave there are some interesting options out there. The RV world is very slowly waking up to the fact that big heavy lead acid batteries may not be ideal. For a ghastly amount of money, you can now get 12V 100AH “drop in” (no they are not drop in) Lithiums with fully integrated BMS systems in them. They *appear* to be safe and come with cute things like 10 year warranties . Be aware that you can buy a nice 5065 on eBay for what a couple of them will set you back ….. In return for your massive cash outlay, you get a battery that does not outgas or have the need to be watered along with the plants. It has a much flatter discharge voltage curve than a lead acid. Their peak current vs voltage generally is better than a lead acid. The BMS may impact this if it is an issue in your setup. They also is a *lot* lighter / smaller for the same amount of useful capacity. The built in BMS *should* take care of all of the fiddly little issues that might burn the house down. Lots to like other than the absolutely giant hole in the wallet …. Bob > On Mar 8, 2019, at 6:43 AM, ew via time-nuts wrote: > > For my frequency stand alone setup opposite the rest of the lab I have a 100 > A 12V AGM/Inverter/Resonsnt Transformer that will power the setup for 10 > hours, but like you I like remove the HP 5065A powered up. Did consider a > similar system for the HP 5061B but have not and most likely will not touch > it.I am concerned about fire but I have more than 10 in one form or the other > Li Ion batteries in the house. The Battery is inside the frame that comes > with the unit. Starting with a quality product, slow charging and dual max > voltage control and dual low voltage shut out risk is very low. Changing the > Zener in the 65 reduces the output from 33V to 29.5V. The 65 cut out of 21.5V > is perfect for 7 batteries. Charging will be close to C/20. Most problems > out there seem to be do to over charge and temperature rise. Multiple tests > will be done with the pack outside the unit to allow close monitoring.The > main reason for my posting is the pile of junk batteries and finding a > reliable source.in the US. > Bert Kehren > In a message dated 3/7/2019 8:24:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, jlt...@att.net > writes: > > Bert, > > I'm interested in your quest. > > I'm interested in batteries for not only the 5065A but also the 5061A and B. > I was thinking of an SLA for the 5061's. I like the idea of being able to > move the units without having to also move a separate battery backup system > simultaneously. > > What have you come up with and how have you addressed the potential for > catastrophic failure of a Lithium Ion battery? > > Hope all is well. > > Joe > > -Original Message- > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com] On Behalf Of ew via > time-nuts > Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2019 3:37 PM > To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com > Cc: ew > Subject: [time-nuts] Li Ion Battery for HP 5065A > > > > Having recently acquired a HP 5065A with clock I decided to put a battery in > it. My choice is 5000 mA Lithium Ion. Having in the past very good experience > with a Florida vendor, was first choice. Sadly he is going out of business. > 90+% out there is junk, have 26650s with 1800 mA. Last week finally located a > reliable vendor, purchased seven 21700 Samsung B50s, reasonable price. 21700 > is a better fit in the 50 X 65 X175 mm battery frame. After extensive dialog > with vapah.inc and bench tests of all seven 4800 to 5200 mA, I am convinced > that I found in the US a very viable source. No commercial or any other > interest, now my only problem is how to get rid of the other junk. > > > Bert Kehren > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Li Ion Battery for HP 5065A
For my frequency stand alone setup opposite the rest of the lab I have a 100 A 12V AGM/Inverter/Resonsnt Transformer that will power the setup for 10 hours, but like you I like remove the HP 5065A powered up. Did consider a similar system for the HP 5061B but have not and most likely will not touch it.I am concerned about fire but I have more than 10 in one form or the other Li Ion batteries in the house. The Battery is inside the frame that comes with the unit. Starting with a quality product, slow charging and dual max voltage control and dual low voltage shut out risk is very low. Changing the Zener in the 65 reduces the output from 33V to 29.5V. The 65 cut out of 21.5V is perfect for 7 batteries. Charging will be close to C/20. Most problems out there seem to be do to over charge and temperature rise. Multiple tests will be done with the pack outside the unit to allow close monitoring.The main reason for my posting is the pile of junk batteries and finding a reliable source.in the US. Bert Kehren In a message dated 3/7/2019 8:24:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, jlt...@att.net writes: Bert, I'm interested in your quest. I'm interested in batteries for not only the 5065A but also the 5061A and B. I was thinking of an SLA for the 5061's. I like the idea of being able to move the units without having to also move a separate battery backup system simultaneously. What have you come up with and how have you addressed the potential for catastrophic failure of a Lithium Ion battery? Hope all is well. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com] On Behalf Of ew via time-nuts Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2019 3:37 PM To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com Cc: ew Subject: [time-nuts] Li Ion Battery for HP 5065A Having recently acquired a HP 5065A with clock I decided to put a battery in it. My choice is 5000 mA Lithium Ion. Having in the past very good experience with a Florida vendor, was first choice. Sadly he is going out of business. 90+% out there is junk, have 26650s with 1800 mA. Last week finally located a reliable vendor, purchased seven 21700 Samsung B50s, reasonable price. 21700 is a better fit in the 50 X 65 X175 mm battery frame. After extensive dialog with vapah.inc and bench tests of all seven 4800 to 5200 mA, I am convinced that I found in the US a very viable source. No commercial or any other interest, now my only problem is how to get rid of the other junk. Bert Kehren ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Li Ion Battery for HP 5065A
Bert, I'm interested in your quest. I'm interested in batteries for not only the 5065A but also the 5061A and B. I was thinking of an SLA for the 5061's. I like the idea of being able to move the units without having to also move a separate battery backup system simultaneously. What have you come up with and how have you addressed the potential for catastrophic failure of a Lithium Ion battery? Hope all is well. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com] On Behalf Of ew via time-nuts Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2019 3:37 PM To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com Cc: ew Subject: [time-nuts] Li Ion Battery for HP 5065A Having recently acquired a HP 5065A with clock I decided to put a battery in it. My choice is 5000 mA Lithium Ion. Having in the past very good experience with a Florida vendor, was first choice. Sadly he is going out of business. 90+% out there is junk, have 26650s with 1800 mA. Last week finally located a reliable vendor, purchased seven 21700 Samsung B50s, reasonable price. 21700 is a better fit in the 50 X 65 X175 mm battery frame. After extensive dialog with vapah.inc and bench tests of all seven 4800 to 5200 mA, I am convinced that I found in the US a very viable source. No commercial or any other interest, now my only problem is how to get rid of the other junk. Bert Kehren ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Li Ion Battery for HP 5065A
On 3/7/19 15:36, ew via time-nuts wrote: > > Having recently acquired a HP 5065A with clock I decided to put a battery in > it. My choice is 5000 mA Lithium Ion. Having in the past very good experience > with a Florida vendor, was first choice. Sadly he is going out of business. > 90+% out there is junk, have 26650s with 1800 mA. Last week finally located a > reliable vendor, purchased seven 21700 Samsung B50s, reasonable price. 21700 > is a better fit in the 50 X 65 X175 mm battery frame. After extensive dialog > with vapah.inc and bench tests of all seven 4800 to 5200 mA, I am convinced > that I found in the US a very viable source. No commercial or any other > interest, now my only problem is how to get rid of the other junk. https://bioennopower.com/ I use their LiFePO4 batteries to build packs for lots of different kit. -- Brian Lloyd 706 Flightline Spring Branch, TX 78070 +1.210.802.8359 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Li Ion Battery for HP 5065A
Having recently acquired a HP 5065A with clock I decided to put a battery in it. My choice is 5000 mA Lithium Ion. Having in the past very good experience with a Florida vendor, was first choice. Sadly he is going out of business. 90+% out there is junk, have 26650s with 1800 mA. Last week finally located a reliable vendor, purchased seven 21700 Samsung B50s, reasonable price. 21700 is a better fit in the 50 X 65 X175 mm battery frame. After extensive dialog with vapah.inc and bench tests of all seven 4800 to 5200 mA, I am convinced that I found in the US a very viable source. No commercial or any other interest, now my only problem is how to get rid of the other junk. Bert Kehren ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
