Re: [time-nuts] Long life products, obsolete components, and code 4 parts. RE: HP Cesium Standards in the International Atomic Time Scale, the legend of Felix Lazarus, and the "top cover
(More > > on these in another story on another day.) > > > > Roberto redesigned the frequency divider module (5MHz in; 10MHz, 1MHz, > > 100kHz out – another odd design rooted in 5060 history), the A3 power > > regulator board, and some stuff internal to one (both?) of the high > voltage > > power supplies, used for the Ion Pump and Electron Multiplier. Maybe > some > > other things too. For all of these, obsolete components was the driving > > force. > > > > By 1984 standards, there were some really crazy circuits still in the > > instrument (still another story for another day), but as Rick said, in > low > > volume manufacturing, if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it. In the case of > the > > 5061, don’t even think about touching it. > > > > Rick’s memory of the management dynamics are similar to mine. A 5061A > to > > 5061B “upgrade”, particularly if funded by manufacturing, was easy to get > > approved.Entire new developments were hard to justify.The > division > > was under a lot of financial stress in the 1980s. Peace was breaking out > > as the cold war was winding down, and DOD spending, which drove a lot of > > instrumentation sales, was shrinking. Digital oscilloscopes and > > synthesized frequency generators were obsoleting the need for frequency > > counters, the majority of the divisions revenue.PFS was profitable, > but > > zero growth. We also build laser interferometers, which did amazing > high > > precision displacement measurements, but they weren’t growing either. > > While profitable, the division revenue was shrinking maybe 10% per year. > > In the 8 years I was there, headcount went from about 1500 to 500 > > people. Management was desperate to fund new products that would lead > to > > growth. I recall the general manager at the time (Jim Horner), having a > > metric for every new development on how much growth it would contribute > to > > the division. It was never enough. Redesigning the 5061A yielded zero > > growth (the demand for cesium standards was pretty flat) and thus not a > > priority. A very light touch by manufacturing to keep it viable was > > appropriate. > > > > This email chain has unleashed a flood of memories from 30 years ago. > > Hopefully a few of you find this walk down memory lane interesting. > I > > have a few more stories in the que if any of you are still interested. > > > > Hugh Rice > > > > > > From: time-nuts On Behalf Of Richard > > (Rick) Karlquist > > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2018 7:35 AM > > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement < > > time-nuts@lists.febo.com>; Magnus Danielson > > Cc: mag...@rubidium.se > > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Long life products, obsolete components, and > code > > 4 parts. RE: HP Cesium Standards in the International Atomic Time Scale, > > the legend of Felix Lazarus, and the "top cover > > > > The HP way (AFAIK) was as follows: > > > > They were making the 5061A and the > > default philosophy was don't fix it > > if it ain't broke. However, products > > reach a tipping point. In the case > > of the 5061A, the obsolescence of the > > Nixie tube was the straw that broke > > the camel's back. But there were a > > bunch of other issues that had also > > accumulated a critical mass. > > > > I was hired into HP in 1979 to work in the > > Precision Frequency Sources R section > > to work on the 10816 rubidium. That > > project was eventually cancelled by a "new sheriff > > in town" event upstairs, and took the > > section with it. So they had to somehow > > boot leg the 61B without an R section. > > > > A production engineer > > named Robert (I forgot his last name) was > > the project manager. He basically tried > > to keep his head down and not attract a > > lot of attention. I am thinking that all > > the money came out of the production engineering > > budget. > > > > Another HP way thing is that we would > > go from A to B in order to get the clock > > running on the end of support life. Upper > > management would be not be suspicious of an > > A to B, as opposed to a new product number, > > which would be a red flag. The cesium line was > > to be run as a cash cow, period. Len pulled a > > rabbit out of the hat when he got permission for > > the 5071A. > > > > So the 61B was a bridge product to keep the > > plane flying until the 71A came out. It > > basically containe
Re: [time-nuts] Long life products, obsolete components, and code 4 parts. RE: HP Cesium Standards in the International Atomic Time Scale, the legend of Felix Lazarus, and the "top cover
nt dynamics are similar to mine. A 5061A to > 5061B “upgrade”, particularly if funded by manufacturing, was easy to get > approved.Entire new developments were hard to justify.The division > was under a lot of financial stress in the 1980s. Peace was breaking out > as the cold war was winding down, and DOD spending, which drove a lot of > instrumentation sales, was shrinking. Digital oscilloscopes and > synthesized frequency generators were obsoleting the need for frequency > counters, the majority of the divisions revenue.PFS was profitable, but > zero growth. We also build laser interferometers, which did amazing high > precision displacement measurements, but they weren’t growing either. > While profitable, the division revenue was shrinking maybe 10% per year. > In the 8 years I was there, headcount went from about 1500 to 500 > people. Management was desperate to fund new products that would lead to > growth. I recall the general manager at the time (Jim Horner), having a > metric for every new development on how much growth it would contribute to > the division. It was never enough. Redesigning the 5061A yielded zero > growth (the demand for cesium standards was pretty flat) and thus not a > priority.A very light touch by manufacturing to keep it viable was > appropriate. > > This email chain has unleashed a flood of memories from 30 years ago. > Hopefully a few of you find this walk down memory lane interesting. I > have a few more stories in the que if any of you are still interested. > > Hugh Rice > > > From: time-nuts On Behalf Of Richard > (Rick) Karlquist > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2018 7:35 AM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement < > time-nuts@lists.febo.com>; Magnus Danielson > Cc: mag...@rubidium.se > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Long life products, obsolete components, and code > 4 parts. RE: HP Cesium Standards in the International Atomic Time Scale, > the legend of Felix Lazarus, and the "top cover > > The HP way (AFAIK) was as follows: > > They were making the 5061A and the > default philosophy was don't fix it > if it ain't broke. However, products > reach a tipping point. In the case > of the 5061A, the obsolescence of the > Nixie tube was the straw that broke > the camel's back. But there were a > bunch of other issues that had also > accumulated a critical mass. > > I was hired into HP in 1979 to work in the > Precision Frequency Sources R section > to work on the 10816 rubidium. That > project was eventually cancelled by a "new sheriff > in town" event upstairs, and took the > section with it. So they had to somehow > boot leg the 61B without an R section. > > A production engineer > named Robert (I forgot his last name) was > the project manager. He basically tried > to keep his head down and not attract a > lot of attention. I am thinking that all > the money came out of the production engineering > budget. > > Another HP way thing is that we would > go from A to B in order to get the clock > running on the end of support life. Upper > management would be not be suspicious of an > A to B, as opposed to a new product number, > which would be a red flag. The cesium line was > to be run as a cash cow, period. Len pulled a > rabbit out of the hat when he got permission for > the 5071A. > > So the 61B was a bridge product to keep the > plane flying until the 71A came out. It > basically contained no gratuitous improvements, > only stuff that had to be fixed. > > Rick > > On 12/30/2018 5:23 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote: > > Dear Hugh, > > > > Many thanks for another nice post from the good old times. > > Was a nice morning reading. > > > > I didn't know that the 5061B was rebuilt with removing odd parts in > > mind, but it makes sense. Interesting system with Code 1 to Code 4. > > > > Cheers, > > Magnus > > > > On 12/29/18 5:36 AM, Rice, Hugh (IPH Writing Systems) wrote: > >> My “Test and Measurement” days with HP, from 1984 to 1992, were all in > manufacturing (a.k.a. production) engineering. A major task was dealing > with the endless list of obsoleted components, since many of our products > had designs dating back 10 or 20 years, into the wild west early days of > semiconductors and integrated circuits. > >> > >> In addition to Frequency and Time products (which we called “PFS” – > Precision Frequency Sources), HP’s Santa Clara Division (SCD) also had the > frequency counter product line. I managed the production engineering team > for counters from 1988 to 1992; the job that I had to pass the R > engineering new hire interview to qualify for. This t
Re: [time-nuts] Long life products, obsolete components, and code 4 parts.
Hi, On 12/31/18 7:31 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote: >> This email chain has unleashed a flood of memories from 30 years ago. >> Hopefully a few of you find this walk down memory lane interesting. >> I have a few more stories in the que if any of you are still interested. >> >> Hugh Rice > > Somewhere in my library I have an internal hp document describing all the > changes between the 5061 A and B. I remember a number of the changes were > influenced by feedback from the repair group. So the design was driven not > only by manufacturability, but also serviceability. > > By the time the 5061B came out there was a decade or two of field experience > with portable cesium clocks and this was put to good use. If you have this > document it would be worth scanning. If not, I'll try to find the box where > my copy is hiding. In usual HP style, minor fixes was surely introduced stepwise to reduce returns or fix common enough issues. > Yes, keep the stories coming. They are very much appreciated. Indeed, very nice reading from both Hugh and Rick here. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Long life products, obsolete components, and code 4 parts. RE: HP Cesium Standards in the International Atomic Time Scale, the legend of Felix Lazarus, and the "top cover
Hugh, On 12/30/2018 10:19 PM, Rice, Hugh (IPH Writing Systems) wrote: > This email chain has unleashed a flood of memories from 30 years ago. > Hopefully a few of you find this walk down memory lane interesting. I > have a few more stories in the que if any of you are still interested. I enjoy these stories very much. I was an HP VAR during that time period and would love to hear more. Cheers, Dan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Long life products, obsolete components, and code 4 parts.
> This email chain has unleashed a flood of memories from 30 years ago. > Hopefully a few of you find this walk down memory lane interesting. > I have a few more stories in the que if any of you are still interested. > > Hugh Rice Somewhere in my library I have an internal hp document describing all the changes between the 5061 A and B. I remember a number of the changes were influenced by feedback from the repair group. So the design was driven not only by manufacturability, but also serviceability. By the time the 5061B came out there was a decade or two of field experience with portable cesium clocks and this was put to good use. If you have this document it would be worth scanning. If not, I'll try to find the box where my copy is hiding. Yes, keep the stories coming. They are very much appreciated. Thanks, /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Long life products, obsolete components, and code 4 parts. RE: HP Cesium Standards in the International Atomic Time Scale, the legend of Felix Lazarus, and the "top cover
. Redesigning the 5061A yielded zero growth (the demand for cesium standards was pretty flat) and thus not a priority.A very light touch by manufacturing to keep it viable was appropriate. This email chain has unleashed a flood of memories from 30 years ago. Hopefully a few of you find this walk down memory lane interesting. I have a few more stories in the que if any of you are still interested. Hugh Rice From: time-nuts On Behalf Of Richard (Rick) Karlquist Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2018 7:35 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement ; Magnus Danielson Cc: mag...@rubidium.se Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Long life products, obsolete components, and code 4 parts. RE: HP Cesium Standards in the International Atomic Time Scale, the legend of Felix Lazarus, and the "top cover The HP way (AFAIK) was as follows: They were making the 5061A and the default philosophy was don't fix it if it ain't broke. However, products reach a tipping point. In the case of the 5061A, the obsolescence of the Nixie tube was the straw that broke the camel's back. But there were a bunch of other issues that had also accumulated a critical mass. I was hired into HP in 1979 to work in the Precision Frequency Sources R section to work on the 10816 rubidium. That project was eventually cancelled by a "new sheriff in town" event upstairs, and took the section with it. So they had to somehow boot leg the 61B without an R section. A production engineer named Robert (I forgot his last name) was the project manager. He basically tried to keep his head down and not attract a lot of attention. I am thinking that all the money came out of the production engineering budget. Another HP way thing is that we would go from A to B in order to get the clock running on the end of support life. Upper management would be not be suspicious of an A to B, as opposed to a new product number, which would be a red flag. The cesium line was to be run as a cash cow, period. Len pulled a rabbit out of the hat when he got permission for the 5071A. So the 61B was a bridge product to keep the plane flying until the 71A came out. It basically contained no gratuitous improvements, only stuff that had to be fixed. Rick On 12/30/2018 5:23 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote: > Dear Hugh, > > Many thanks for another nice post from the good old times. > Was a nice morning reading. > > I didn't know that the 5061B was rebuilt with removing odd parts in > mind, but it makes sense. Interesting system with Code 1 to Code 4. > > Cheers, > Magnus > > On 12/29/18 5:36 AM, Rice, Hugh (IPH Writing Systems) wrote: >> My “Test and Measurement” days with HP, from 1984 to 1992, were all in >> manufacturing (a.k.a. production) engineering. A major task was dealing with >> the endless list of obsoleted components, since many of our products had >> designs dating back 10 or 20 years, into the wild west early days of >> semiconductors and integrated circuits. >> >> In addition to Frequency and Time products (which we called “PFS” – >> Precision Frequency Sources), HP’s Santa Clara Division (SCD) also had the >> frequency counter product line. I managed the production engineering team >> for counters from 1988 to 1992; the job that I had to pass the R >> engineering new hire interview to qualify for. This technology was invented >> in the 1950s and even with many new models and upgrades, we still were >> shipping “classics” products from the early 1970s in low volume in about >> 1990. The 5340 microwave counter and 5328 universal counters come to mind. >> We kept raising the prices, because we had newer, better, cheaper counters >> for sale. But the old ones kept selling because they were designed into some >> DOD test system, and the hassle of designing in a new instrument was more >> expensive than buying an new (but obsolete) counter for our customers. The >> parade of obsolete components seemed to never end on these old units. I >> recall talking to the marketing manager, Murli Thurmali (sp?) about >> obsoleting some of these products, and he would wisely respond: “Tell me how >> you are going to replace the million dollars of lost revenue.” The >> manufacturing manager, Chuck Taubman, would likewise say: “Our margins are >> well over 50% on these products, that money pays overhead, which is our >> salaries. Show me $500K in cost savings before we obsolete them.” Turns out >> that even though they were a hassle, it was relatively easy money, so we >> kept building and selling them. >> >> The PFS products were similar in this regard. The product line had largely >> been developed in the 1960s and 1970s, volumes were low, but prices and >> margins were high. Yeah, they took some effort to keep i
Re: [time-nuts] Long life products, obsolete components, and code 4 parts. RE: HP Cesium Standards in the International Atomic Time Scale, the legend of Felix Lazarus, and the "top cover
On 12/28/2018 8:36 PM, Rice, Hugh (IPH Writing Systems) wrote: Well, I can’t prove that Bob would lose this bet (Maybe Rick K could), and I didn’t work on the 5071. But for PFS products, in production engineering, we had been building and selling these instruments for decades, with no end in sight. Volumes were low, so they didn’t get redesigned very often. I’ll bet the same six pack that the 5071 team felt it would be a VERY long time before HP designed a replacement for the 5071. Rick – any memories you can share? Happy New Year, Hugh Rice Even in the late 1980's when the 5071A project started, the handwriting was on the wall with respect to GPS. It seemed like cesium was going to be a niche product. OTOH, Len's vision was that after the 5071A we would do an optically pumped version. So it could be said that no one expected the 5071A to last 25 years. What changed was: 1. Len never got permission to do an optically pumped version. The people at Microchip tell me that even now, they can't get reliable laser diodes. Optical pumping is limited to laboratory standards, not COTS ones. 2. I am shocked! to report that GPS can be spoofed or jammed :-). Now every military commander wants his own cesium. An anecdote about life time buys: When I designed the 5071A, HP had their own SAW fab. This was when HP made their own coax, transformers, etc. They already had a 640 MHz SAWR that was used in the 11729, so I designed it into the 5071A and phase locked it to the 10811. Then we got the news about the SAW fab. The managers patted themselves on the back for arranging with SAWTEK to support the SAW products. However, that referred to SAWTEK selling us only complete oscillators for $300. Not loose resonators. BTW, Jack Kusters developed the original SAW technology. So I started work on a new RF module without a SAW, and meanwhile purchasing made a life time buy. Long before the inventory was used up, I released a new RF module that was one PC board that replaced the old on with two PC boards and had a factory cost that was $100 lower. The production engineers loved the module because it just worked from the get go. It contained five cascaded doublers that went from 10 MHz to 320 MHz. Previous multiplier chains going from 10 MHz to 90 MHz constituted a full employment program for production engineers. With the 5071A design, I never heard from production about any problems. I assumed that they would immediately implement this change because they were basically shipping a $100 bill with each instrument. But they said, no, they would have to write off the life time buy inventory and "lose" money. I tried to explain "sunk cost" to them to no avail. So they kept shipping the old design until the last SAWR was used up. Go figure. Robin Gifford of 5071A fame used to talk about his professor who had a very old tank of helium that was acquired when helium was very expensive. It was carried on the books at its "book" price which was the historical cost. The professor would order new helium tanks to avoid using up the "expensive" helium. Robin loved debunking nonsense. He had a subtle but devastating English sense of humor. Rick ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Long life products, obsolete components, and code 4 parts. RE: HP Cesium Standards in the International Atomic Time Scale, the legend of Felix Lazarus, and the "top cover
Dear Hugh, Many thanks for another nice post from the good old times. Was a nice morning reading. I didn't know that the 5061B was rebuilt with removing odd parts in mind, but it makes sense. Interesting system with Code 1 to Code 4. Cheers, Magnus On 12/29/18 5:36 AM, Rice, Hugh (IPH Writing Systems) wrote: > My “Test and Measurement” days with HP, from 1984 to 1992, were all in > manufacturing (a.k.a. production) engineering. A major task was dealing > with the endless list of obsoleted components, since many of our products had > designs dating back 10 or 20 years, into the wild west early days of > semiconductors and integrated circuits. > > In addition to Frequency and Time products (which we called “PFS” – Precision > Frequency Sources), HP’s Santa Clara Division (SCD) also had the frequency > counter product line. I managed the production engineering team for counters > from 1988 to 1992; the job that I had to pass the R engineering new hire > interview to qualify for. This technology was invented in the 1950s and > even with many new models and upgrades, we still were shipping “classics” > products from the early 1970s in low volume in about 1990. The 5340 microwave > counter and 5328 universal counters come to mind. We kept raising the > prices, because we had newer, better, cheaper counters for sale. But the > old ones kept selling because they were designed into some DOD test system, > and the hassle of designing in a new instrument was more expensive than > buying an new (but obsolete) counter for our customers.The parade of > obsolete components seemed to never end on these old units.I recall > talking to the marketing manager, Murli Thurmali (sp?) about obsoleting some > of these products, and he would wisely respond: “Tell me how you are going > to replace the million dollars of lost revenue.” The manufacturing manager, > Chuck Taubman, would likewise say: “Our margins are well over 50% on these > products, that money pays overhead, which is our salaries. Show me $500K in > cost savings before we obsolete them.” Turns out that even though they were > a hassle, it was relatively easy money, so we kept building and selling them. > > The PFS products were similar in this regard. The product line had largely > been developed in the 1960s and 1970s, volumes were low, but prices and > margins were high.Yeah, they took some effort to keep in production, but > the development was done, and it was good money. HP was a business after > all, and if we didn’t make money, we didn’t have jobs.The was a great > education for me, brand new to management, learning that HP may be a cool > technology company, but we only had jobs as long as the business was > profitable, and preferably growing. Nothing was guaranteed. > > HP instituted a system of “Codes” for parts, to measure how well we were > designing our products for long production lives and low materials management > overhead costs. Code 1 was best. Industry standard parts available from > many sources cheaply.Code 2 were OK to use. Code 3 was something really > special, and needed a good reason to include. Code 4 brought the scorn of > procurement engineers, and brought significant management review. > > The easy way out for production engineering to deal with obsoleted component > was a life time buy. The Materials group hated this, because they had > hundreds of other parts already on life time buys. What if they get lost or > damaged, or the last batch was defective, or the product lasted longer than > we expected?A product like the 5061A, at ~200 build per year, was a > typical challenge. 10 more years of life? Buy 2400 parts? Perhaps > double it to 5000 parts. The response from component buyers was easy to > predict: “But VendorX wants $2.31 for this ancient transistor. We’re not > tying up $10K in one part.We have dozens of parts like this, we can’t > afford all this inventory.”So we would try harder. Maybe a 2N222A, or a > 2N3904 will work. Procurements loves these parts. We’d try them out, and > hope we didn’t miss something in the qualification. New parts never had the > same specs at the old parts, and the original designer was long gone, and > design intent documentation non-existent. I bet half the time the old > transistor just happened to be on the engineers bench back in 1969, worked > fine, and he just used it. The Code 1,2,3,4 process was designed to > discourage this kind of design thinking. > > When we upgraded the 5061A Cesium Standard to the 5061B in 1984-85, the > primary objective was to eliminate all the code 3 and code 4 parts. > Designing out all the old stuff wound up being a fantastic education in > component technologies, reading and interpreting data sheets, dealing with > vendors, worrying about inventory control and so on. Our attitude was > trying to make a product we
[time-nuts] Long life products, obsolete components, and code 4 parts. RE: HP Cesium Standards in the International Atomic Time Scale, the legend of Felix Lazarus, and the "top cover
My “Test and Measurement” days with HP, from 1984 to 1992, were all in manufacturing (a.k.a. production) engineering. A major task was dealing with the endless list of obsoleted components, since many of our products had designs dating back 10 or 20 years, into the wild west early days of semiconductors and integrated circuits. In addition to Frequency and Time products (which we called “PFS” – Precision Frequency Sources), HP’s Santa Clara Division (SCD) also had the frequency counter product line. I managed the production engineering team for counters from 1988 to 1992; the job that I had to pass the R engineering new hire interview to qualify for. This technology was invented in the 1950s and even with many new models and upgrades, we still were shipping “classics” products from the early 1970s in low volume in about 1990. The 5340 microwave counter and 5328 universal counters come to mind. We kept raising the prices, because we had newer, better, cheaper counters for sale. But the old ones kept selling because they were designed into some DOD test system, and the hassle of designing in a new instrument was more expensive than buying an new (but obsolete) counter for our customers.The parade of obsolete components seemed to never end on these old units.I recall talking to the marketing manager, Murli Thurmali (sp?) about obsoleting some of these products, and he would wisely respond: “Tell me how you are going to replace the million dollars of lost revenue.” The manufacturing manager, Chuck Taubman, would likewise say: “Our margins are well over 50% on these products, that money pays overhead, which is our salaries. Show me $500K in cost savings before we obsolete them.” Turns out that even though they were a hassle, it was relatively easy money, so we kept building and selling them. The PFS products were similar in this regard. The product line had largely been developed in the 1960s and 1970s, volumes were low, but prices and margins were high.Yeah, they took some effort to keep in production, but the development was done, and it was good money. HP was a business after all, and if we didn’t make money, we didn’t have jobs.The was a great education for me, brand new to management, learning that HP may be a cool technology company, but we only had jobs as long as the business was profitable, and preferably growing. Nothing was guaranteed. HP instituted a system of “Codes” for parts, to measure how well we were designing our products for long production lives and low materials management overhead costs. Code 1 was best. Industry standard parts available from many sources cheaply.Code 2 were OK to use. Code 3 was something really special, and needed a good reason to include. Code 4 brought the scorn of procurement engineers, and brought significant management review. The easy way out for production engineering to deal with obsoleted component was a life time buy. The Materials group hated this, because they had hundreds of other parts already on life time buys. What if they get lost or damaged, or the last batch was defective, or the product lasted longer than we expected?A product like the 5061A, at ~200 build per year, was a typical challenge. 10 more years of life? Buy 2400 parts? Perhaps double it to 5000 parts. The response from component buyers was easy to predict: “But VendorX wants $2.31 for this ancient transistor. We’re not tying up $10K in one part.We have dozens of parts like this, we can’t afford all this inventory.”So we would try harder. Maybe a 2N222A, or a 2N3904 will work. Procurements loves these parts. We’d try them out, and hope we didn’t miss something in the qualification. New parts never had the same specs at the old parts, and the original designer was long gone, and design intent documentation non-existent. I bet half the time the old transistor just happened to be on the engineers bench back in 1969, worked fine, and he just used it. The Code 1,2,3,4 process was designed to discourage this kind of design thinking. When we upgraded the 5061A Cesium Standard to the 5061B in 1984-85, the primary objective was to eliminate all the code 3 and code 4 parts. Designing out all the old stuff wound up being a fantastic education in component technologies, reading and interpreting data sheets, dealing with vendors, worrying about inventory control and so on. Our attitude was trying to make a product we could ship indefinitely, even though it was already over 20 years old.We had a history of selling PFS instruments for decades, and we were preparing for decades more. Bob kb8tq wrote: “In the case of the 5071, I’d bet a pretty good brand of six pack that nobody on the planet would have guessed 20 years ago that it still would be in production today.” Well, I can’t prove that Bob would lose this bet (Maybe Rick K could), and I didn’t
