Re: [time-nuts] Setting Time on WSPR Radio Transmitter

[Magnus Danielson]

Hi,

On 06/26/2018 06:29 PM, Van Horn, David wrote:
> I have wondered if a slightly incorrect time on the phone might point to use 
> of a "Stingray" or similar device.

No, some networks have terrible time-offsets.

Cheers,
Magnus

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Re: [time-nuts] Setting Time on WSPR Radio Transmitter

[Dave B via time-nuts]

I don't know what cellular carrier you are using, but GSM phones can use
"System" (as in GSM system, GPS disciplined) as their time source, and
it works very well to within a small fraction of a second.   Well, here
in the UK, Europe and Turkey where I've travelled to in the recent past,
and the phone(s) all sync up to "local" time automatically just fine.  
Even the last trip to the US two+ years ago, the phones "just worked and
sync'd OK, all by themselves.

Check your Android system settings, under System, then Date and Time. 
Enable "Automatic date & time (Use Network-provided time)".

At least that's how it works on my Motorola, and with similar settings
on a Samsung I carry for work.

If you're not using a GSM system, then sorry for the above spurious.  If
you are using a GSM system, then perhaps the carrier has got it wrong,
or your phone is faulty, or has crypto-mining malware resident using all
the CPU.  (Android has an open port issue, visible over WiFi it seems,
but not usually over the cellular link.)

I wouldn’t bother trying to use NTP over a mobile data channel anyway. 
The ping to ping latency is "very" variable as you are usually proxied
to hell and back through many network routers and filters, that's if
they don't block such use.  And especially if you are on the edge of
coverage.

As to time setting for portable PC based WSPR etc.  Just use a common or
garden GPS RX, that can talk to the PC.  And any of the common software
tools that can jam the system clock to sync to the reported time from
the GPS.  PPS lines are nice, but for WSPR and the JT modes, that sort
of accuracy isn't needed.

In the shack, just point your PC's to use the ntp pool project
(pool.ntp.org) even Windows manages that OK.  Don’t bother with the
default Windows time servers, they are effectively DDoS'ed off the
planet by the gazillions of other machines trying to get time.

If you absolutely need to (due to a very sloppy CPU/system clock) then
edit the registry to increase the frequency of NTP poll's to keep the
time up to date.   Google is your friend, as always.

The ultimate convenience, for portability, and psuedo timenuts accuracy
(should you need) is one of Leo Bodnar's LeoNTP devices.  A portable GPS
driven NTP server.   Job done.   (No affiliation.)

Regards.

Dave B.


On 26/06/18 17:00, time-nuts-requ...@lists.febo.com wrote:
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting Time on WSPR Radio Transmitter
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Hi again:
>
> I've found out there are twoTimeSync time displays "Atomic time" and "system 
> time".  System time can not be adjusted in 
> Android phones without rooting them, but the displayed "atomic time" is 
> supposed to be the actual time, so this app can 
> be used to get an accurate display of the current time on a stock phone, it 
> just can not adjust the stock phone's time 
> to better than 30 seconds.

-- 
Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and open source 
software.
::

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Re: [time-nuts] Setting Time on WSPR Radio Transmitter

[Bo Hansen]

Hello Brooke

I do have some experience with beacon solutions that can also be used for WSPR 
among all the different modes available:

The Next Generation Beacons platform:  also 
used by some REAL time nuts :-)

PI4ino:  OK not WSPR but PI4 but the 
principle is the same.

But I can't find much information about the technical capabilities of the 
WSPRLite in respect to what you need to know, e.g. what is the accuracy of the 
MCU clock, how does it perform vs temperature, is there an on-board external 
sync?

As pointed out by others the WSPR decoder accepts some time offset. But even if 
you start your WSPRLite at the correct second for how long will it stay inside 
the time capture window of WSPR before the above mentioned factors make it 
useless?

For another application I have built a GPS simulator that sends out NMEA frame. 
But after some time it has to be reset because the MCU ceramic resonator clock 
has drifted to much. I have made this last a bit longer by adjusting the 1 s 
interrupt controlling value but it still drifts.

For a remote operation I would not recommend a non synced device. As far as I 
can see there is no such possibility in the WSPRLite so a GNS controlled 
on/off-switch may be the way forward to make the WSPRLite start at the correct 
time over time. Far from elegant I must admit.

Bo, OZ2M


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Re: [time-nuts] Setting Time on WSPR Radio Transmitter

[Clint Jay]

I’m a regular WSPR and FT8 user and use Dimension4 to sync my PC clock,
time.is says the clock is ‘exact’ with errors in the single digit mS range
reported.

My results on WSPR/FT8 would suggest it works well enough and there doesn’t
seem to be any advantage in this application to seeking further improvement.

On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 at 21:19, Donald E. Pauly 
wrote:

> I was not aware of time.is but it is an Icelandic website.  It is
> maintained by a guy in Norway and the accuracy and reliability is not
> known.  I would use time.gov which is the NIST website.  It is
> corrected for network delay.  A few years back I compared it with WWVB
> on 60 kc and it was well within a tenth of a second.  There have been
> posts here of different computers giving errors of a few seconds on it
> with different internet providers.  I have seen discrepancies between
> my cell phone and the wireless at MacDonalds for example.  The trouble
> seems to been caches of the website.  Hit F5 for refresh and you
> should get a fresh page.  Just now my phone on Metro PCS and laptop on
> wireless both agree with time.gov considering slight known errors.
> Time.is shows my laptop to be slow by 0.87 seconds which is correct.
> Do not trust the network time on your cell phone.  I have seen them a
> minute off.  Usually cell phone time is within a couple of seconds
> with my carrier.  My phone is set to time.gov and not network time.
>
> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 10:31 AM, Azelio Boriani
>  wrote:
> > Is time.is not accurate or your desktop's clock? Try https://uhr.ptb.de
> > On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 6:58 PM Brooke Clarke 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi:
> >>
> >> I'm experimenting with a WSPR beacon transmitter and part of how it
> works depends on pushing the start button at exactly
> >> 2 seconds past the minute.
> >> http://prc68.com/I/DRM.shtml#WSPR
> >> The problem is the transmitter (and the start button) are out in the
> forest where the antenna is located.
> >> http://prc68.com/I/Images/TCI651TOA1s.jpg
> >>
> >> SotaBeams, who make the WSPRlite transmitter recommends using
> http://time.is/ which seems to be accurate on my cell
> >> phone but not on my desktop running the stock NTP.
> >> Can someone comment on time.is?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Have Fun,
> >>
> >> Brooke Clarke
> >> http://www.PRC68.com
> >> http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
> >>
> >> ___
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
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> >> and follow the instructions there.
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-- 
Clint. M0UAW IO83

*No trees were harmed in the sending of this mail. However, a large number
of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.*
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Re: [time-nuts] Setting Time on WSPR Radio Transmitter

[Andy Backus]

A cheap WWVB watch will do the trick.


Andy Backus



From: time-nuts  on behalf of Brooke Clarke 

Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 9:58 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: [time-nuts] Setting Time on WSPR Radio Transmitter

Hi:

I'm experimenting with a WSPR beacon transmitter and part of how it works 
depends on pushing the start button at exactly
2 seconds past the minute.
http://prc68.com/I/DRM.shtml#WSPR

Digital Radio Modes - PRC68.com<http://prc68.com/I/DRM.shtml#WSPR>
prc68.com
Background By using a digital mode where the signal bandwidth is narrower than 
the standard 300 Hz to 3,000 Hz voice bandwidth the signal to noise ratio can 
be improved thus working where voice will not work.



The problem is the transmitter (and the start button) are out in the forest 
where the antenna is located.
http://prc68.com/I/Images/TCI651TOA1s.jpg

SotaBeams, who make the WSPRlite transmitter recommends using http://time.is/ 
which seems to be accurate on my cell
phone but not on my desktop running the stock NTP.
Can someone comment on time.is?

--
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html

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Re: [time-nuts] Setting Time on WSPR Radio Transmitter

[Bob Bownes]

I can heartily recommend the QRP-Labs wspr beacon kit with GPS. It pull the
time from an attached GPS module and will beacon on 2m and below. Once
assembled and configured with your callsign and the bands you want to xmit
on  it Just Plain Works. It can even provide 1pps out.

Pick the right GPS module and you get 10MHz out as well!

Bob


On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 2:41 PM, Brian Lloyd  wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 1:27 PM, Hal Murray 
> wrote:
>
> >
> > bro...@pacific.net said:
> > > I'm experimenting with a WSPR beacon transmitter and part of how it
> works
> > > depends on pushing the start button at exactly  2 seconds past the
> > minute.
> >
> > What do you mean by "exactly"?
> >
>
> I think WSPR has a +/-2s window for the start of a transmission. It really
> isn't all that "exact" and certainly nothing in the way of time-nuts
> definition of accuracy.
>
> The most popular WSPR implementation runs on a PC and uses a sound-card to
> generate the baseband signal and then uses an SSB transceiver to upconvert
> to the desired output frequency. Even worst-case the standard NTP
> implementation on Windows is more than sufficient for synchronization.
>
> --
>
>
>
> Brian Lloyd
> 706 Flightline
> Spring Branch, TX 78070
> br...@lloyd.aero
> +1.210.802-8FLY (1.210.802-8359)
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
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> bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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>
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Re: [time-nuts] Setting Time on WSPR Radio Transmitter

[Brian Lloyd]

On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 1:27 PM, Hal Murray  wrote:

>
> bro...@pacific.net said:
> > I'm experimenting with a WSPR beacon transmitter and part of how it works
> > depends on pushing the start button at exactly  2 seconds past the
> minute.
>
> What do you mean by "exactly"?
>

I think WSPR has a +/-2s window for the start of a transmission. It really
isn't all that "exact" and certainly nothing in the way of time-nuts
definition of accuracy.

The most popular WSPR implementation runs on a PC and uses a sound-card to
generate the baseband signal and then uses an SSB transceiver to upconvert
to the desired output frequency. Even worst-case the standard NTP
implementation on Windows is more than sufficient for synchronization.

-- 



Brian Lloyd
706 Flightline
Spring Branch, TX 78070
br...@lloyd.aero
+1.210.802-8FLY (1.210.802-8359)
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Re: [time-nuts] Setting Time on WSPR Radio Transmitter

[Van Horn, David]

"Exactly" on the time nuts list...    


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Re: [time-nuts] Setting Time on WSPR Radio Transmitter

[Azelio Boriani]

Is time.is not accurate or your desktop's clock? Try https://uhr.ptb.de
On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 6:58 PM Brooke Clarke  wrote:
>
> Hi:
>
> I'm experimenting with a WSPR beacon transmitter and part of how it works 
> depends on pushing the start button at exactly
> 2 seconds past the minute.
> http://prc68.com/I/DRM.shtml#WSPR
> The problem is the transmitter (and the start button) are out in the forest 
> where the antenna is located.
> http://prc68.com/I/Images/TCI651TOA1s.jpg
>
> SotaBeams, who make the WSPRlite transmitter recommends using http://time.is/ 
> which seems to be accurate on my cell
> phone but not on my desktop running the stock NTP.
> Can someone comment on time.is?
>
> --
> Have Fun,
>
> Brooke Clarke
> http://www.PRC68.com
> http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to 
> https://lists.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
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[time-nuts] Setting Time on WSPR Radio Transmitter

[Brooke Clarke]

Hi:

I'm experimenting with a WSPR beacon transmitter and part of how it works depends on pushing the start button at exactly 
2 seconds past the minute.

http://prc68.com/I/DRM.shtml#WSPR
The problem is the transmitter (and the start button) are out in the forest 
where the antenna is located.
http://prc68.com/I/Images/TCI651TOA1s.jpg

SotaBeams, who make the WSPRlite transmitter recommends using http://time.is/ which seems to be accurate on my cell 
phone but not on my desktop running the stock NTP.

Can someone comment on time.is?

--
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html

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