Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded
Having just been through the endian issue with a similar parser, I'll mention that in Python the struct.unpack() function can handle endian swaps at tne same time as it pulls binary data out of the message. It makes it pretty painless. On Jul 13, 2019, 11:08 PM, at 11:08 PM, Mark Sims wrote: >Lady Heather is open source and has parsers/decoders for just about any >receiver you are likely to see... and a few that your aren't.One >big issue with binary protocols is handling big/little endian (byte >order) issues when reading messages or sending them to the device. You >need to be aware of what the system CPU uses and what the receiver >uses. > > > >> One alternative, if you only need two lines is to write a parser >just for them. >There’s not a whole lot to the protocol and the uBlox doc’s are pretty >good at >describing it. Yes, it’s a binary protocol so there will be a bit of >this and that >involved. >___ >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to >http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded
Super slow from Canada too. Does eventually respond. They might be seeing a little more traffic than they usually get... On 14/07/2019 3:49 AM, Bj??rn wrote: InsideGNSS is responding really slow (only from Sweden?) My phone browsers gave up. My computer Mozilla finally got it. /Bj??rn On 14 Jul 2019, at 08:24, Leif Johansson wrote: That site seems to be down now Skickat fr??n min iPhone 14 juli 2019 kl. 00:14 skrev Michael Wouters : The Galileo outage is being attributed to problems at the Precise Timing Facility in Italy https://insidegnss.com/update-galileo-service-degraded-on-all-satellites-precise-timing-facility-problems-cited/ Cheers Michael On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 at 7:06 am, Mark Sims wrote: The satellite tracking / health info is sent by the receiver. Heather just reports what the receiver is sending. Oh, and the Galileo system status has changed from "degraded" to "service outage". https://www.gsc-europa.eu/system-status/Constellation-Information What is amazing is that I can find no other reports that the system is down. Also how such a long and severe outage could happen. I expect heads will be rolling... -- What prompts Heather to mark visible satellites as yellow, and not use them? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded
-Original Message- From: Leif Johansson Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2019 7:24 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded That site seems to be down now = See: https://web.archive.org/web/20190714012836/https://insidegnss.com/galileo-interruptus/ Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software for you Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk Twitter: @gm8arv ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded
InsideGNSS is responding really slow (only from Sweden?) My phone browsers gave up. My computer Mozilla finally got it. /Björn > On 14 Jul 2019, at 08:24, Leif Johansson wrote: > > That site seems to be down now > > Skickat från min iPhone > >> 14 juli 2019 kl. 00:14 skrev Michael Wouters : >> >> The Galileo outage is being attributed to problems at the Precise Timing >> Facility in Italy >> >> https://insidegnss.com/update-galileo-service-degraded-on-all-satellites-precise-timing-facility-problems-cited/ >> >> Cheers >> Michael >> >> >>> On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 at 7:06 am, Mark Sims wrote: >>> >>> The satellite tracking / health info is sent by the receiver. Heather >>> just reports what the receiver is sending. >>> >>> Oh, and the Galileo system status has changed from "degraded" to "service >>> outage". >>> >>> https://www.gsc-europa.eu/system-status/Constellation-Information >>> >>> What is amazing is that I can find no other reports that the system is >>> down. Also how such a long and severe outage could happen. I expect heads >>> will be rolling... >>> >>> -- >>> What prompts Heather to mark visible satellites as yellow, and not use >>> them? >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >> and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded
> On 14 Jul 2019, at 00:25, Mark Sims wrote: > > A report that the outage is due to a failure at the Galileo "precise time > facility" in Italy. It has all their cesiums and a maser. Hmmm... no > backup facility... sounds like a recipe for disaster? To my knowledge both Italian and German control centers have an identical PTF. Do you have any reference to there not being an PTF at Oberpfaffenhofen? Additional there are backup service from some European national UTC labs. Don’t know if this is “online backup” if neither control center has working time. Still failover has obviously not worked - if the PTF(s) were at fault - as per Insidegnss... Also note that Galileo operational service levels are incrementing from Initial Service (where we are now), to Enhanced Service (hopefully soon), to IOC and finally FOC. > Service outage may last over 90 hours. Can Galileo absorb this within the service level stated in Initial Service documents? https://www.gsc-europa.eu/system/files/documents/Galileo-OS-SDD.pdf (Page 26) Availability of OS UTC service - >87% over 30days. Equals outage of 3.9days (93.6h) for a 30 day period. /Björn ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded
That site seems to be down now Skickat från min iPhone > 14 juli 2019 kl. 00:14 skrev Michael Wouters : > > The Galileo outage is being attributed to problems at the Precise Timing > Facility in Italy > > https://insidegnss.com/update-galileo-service-degraded-on-all-satellites-precise-timing-facility-problems-cited/ > > Cheers > Michael > > >> On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 at 7:06 am, Mark Sims wrote: >> >> The satellite tracking / health info is sent by the receiver. Heather >> just reports what the receiver is sending. >> >> Oh, and the Galileo system status has changed from "degraded" to "service >> outage". >> >> https://www.gsc-europa.eu/system-status/Constellation-Information >> >> What is amazing is that I can find no other reports that the system is >> down. Also how such a long and severe outage could happen. I expect heads >> will be rolling... >> >> -- >> >>> What prompts Heather to mark visible satellites as yellow, and not use >> them? >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >> and follow the instructions there. >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded
Hi One alternative, if you only need two lines is to write a parser just for them. There’s not a whole lot to the protocol and the uBlox doc’s are pretty good at describing it. Yes, it’s a binary protocol so there will be a bit of this and that involved. Bob > On Jul 13, 2019, at 5:16 PM, Kevin Croissant wrote: > > This is the library I am using: > https://github.com/jkua/ubx > > Basically the only applicable files are ublox2.py and ubloxMessage.py. > There's some bug in how it handles its byte buffer and the buffer grows out > of control, which causes all sorts of issues. I tried to fix it but failed > due to time constraints. Highly recommend against touching that library... > > I started off by using NMEA but found that there is was more resolution in > the UBX messages, so that's why I went that route. I thought there must be > a way to get the same resolution, but did not figure it out, and eventually > I had to just get it online so I could move on. Looking at gpsd, I'm still > not sure that it supports UBX, and I think that was why I disregarded it > before. Do you know if it does? The only UBX messages my project truly > needs are NAV-PVT and NAV-DOP, though I look at other ones for data > validation and debugging. > > Kevin > > On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 5:06 PM Hal Murray wrote: > >> >> ke...@kevincroissant.com said: >>> The library I used for the U-blox UBX protocol frankly sucks, and was a >> major >>> source of issues. >> >> What library are you using and/or did you look at gpsd? >> >> >> -- >> These are my opinions. I hate spam. >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > > -- > Kevin Croissant > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded
Thanks for the info Gary! I will check this out -- I am using the F9P for another project now, so that might be useful. Unrelated to gpsd... I forgot about this until now, but I actually encountered a WNRO bug in the U-Blox M8N (or possibly my library?) when my data collection was running. I only have this screenshot now from the incident, but you can also download data from the website around the WNRO timestamp and see that all constellations stopped collecting simultaneously. Screenshot: https://gnssperformancemonitor.com/time-nuts/wnro.png -- look at "Server Timestamp" to see what time the glitches all actually happened at. It seems to me that the cause was that the u-blox M8N looked at GPS for timestamps, even when you explicitly turn off GPS. I never did any more investigation into it since the 9th gen was coming out and it shouldn't be a problem again for a while. Did anyone else see WNRO glitches with the 8th gen? Kevin On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 8:13 PM Gary E. Miller wrote: > Yo Kevin! > > On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 17:16:37 -0400 > Kevin Croissant wrote: > > > Looking at gpsd, I'm still not sure that it supports UBX, > > gpsd has supported u-blox since the SiRF2-ublox TIM chip in 2007. > > gpsd now support all the way up to the ZED series. > > RGDS > GARY > --- > Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97703 > g...@rellim.com Tel:+1 541 382 8588 > > Veritas liberabit vos. -- Quid est veritas? > "If you can’t measure it, you can’t improve it." - Lord Kelvin > -- Kevin Croissant ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded
Yo Kevin! On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 17:16:37 -0400 Kevin Croissant wrote: > Looking at gpsd, I'm still not sure that it supports UBX, gpsd has supported u-blox since the SiRF2-ublox TIM chip in 2007. gpsd now support all the way up to the ZED series. RGDS GARY --- Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97703 g...@rellim.com Tel:+1 541 382 8588 Veritas liberabit vos. -- Quid est veritas? "If you can’t measure it, you can’t improve it." - Lord Kelvin pgpZKP8UKTG5A.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded
Hello Kevin There is a Perl script to configure and log the ublox that is available as part of OpenTTP https://github.com/openttp/openttp/tree/master/software/gpscv/ublox Cheers Michael On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 8:03 AM Kevin Croissant wrote: > > This is the library I am using: > https://github.com/jkua/ubx > > Basically the only applicable files are ublox2.py and ubloxMessage.py. > There's some bug in how it handles its byte buffer and the buffer grows out > of control, which causes all sorts of issues. I tried to fix it but failed > due to time constraints. Highly recommend against touching that library... > > I started off by using NMEA but found that there is was more resolution in > the UBX messages, so that's why I went that route. I thought there must be > a way to get the same resolution, but did not figure it out, and eventually > I had to just get it online so I could move on. Looking at gpsd, I'm still > not sure that it supports UBX, and I think that was why I disregarded it > before. Do you know if it does? The only UBX messages my project truly > needs are NAV-PVT and NAV-DOP, though I look at other ones for data > validation and debugging. > > Kevin > > On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 5:06 PM Hal Murray wrote: > > > > > ke...@kevincroissant.com said: > > > The library I used for the U-blox UBX protocol frankly sucks, and was a > > major > > > source of issues. > > > > What library are you using and/or did you look at gpsd? > > > > > > -- > > These are my opinions. I hate spam. > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > -- > Kevin Croissant > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded
We monitor GNSS timing in this way ie with common, single-frequency receivers configured to track a single GNSS system only, measured with respect to UTC(AUS). The plan was to make the data publicly available but that's still on the TODO. Currently we monitor GPS, GLONASS and BeiDou. Over the two years or so we've been doing this, I've noticed multiple problems with receiver loss of tracking, even when many SVs are visible and useable, and lockups when tracking non-GPS signals. I attribute this to bugs in the receiver firmware, rather than the GNSS. There is of course a vast amount of data available already through the many IGS stations reporting multi-GNSS data, just not in a convenient form. Cheers Michael ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded
> Looking at gpsd, I'm still not sure that it supports UBX, and I think that was > why I disregarded it before. Do you know if it does? The only UBX messages my > project truly needs are NAV-PVT and NAV-DOP, though I look at other ones for > data validation and debugging. I haven't been keeping up with gpsd. The general idea is that it tries to convert whatever a device provides into a standard format. If all goes well, your setup should be able to compare 2 different brands of receiver. I think they have been working on ublox. I don't know if it is ready for prime time yet. If not, it's probably close and/or they may be interested in fixing bugs if you provide a good test case. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded
The Galileo outage is being attributed to problems at the Precise Timing Facility in Italy https://insidegnss.com/update-galileo-service-degraded-on-all-satellites-precise-timing-facility-problems-cited/ Cheers Michael On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 at 7:06 am, Mark Sims wrote: > The satellite tracking / health info is sent by the receiver. Heather > just reports what the receiver is sending. > > Oh, and the Galileo system status has changed from "degraded" to "service > outage". > > https://www.gsc-europa.eu/system-status/Constellation-Information > > What is amazing is that I can find no other reports that the system is > down. Also how such a long and severe outage could happen. I expect heads > will be rolling... > > -- > > > What prompts Heather to mark visible satellites as yellow, and not use > them? > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded
This is the library I am using: https://github.com/jkua/ubx Basically the only applicable files are ublox2.py and ubloxMessage.py. There's some bug in how it handles its byte buffer and the buffer grows out of control, which causes all sorts of issues. I tried to fix it but failed due to time constraints. Highly recommend against touching that library... I started off by using NMEA but found that there is was more resolution in the UBX messages, so that's why I went that route. I thought there must be a way to get the same resolution, but did not figure it out, and eventually I had to just get it online so I could move on. Looking at gpsd, I'm still not sure that it supports UBX, and I think that was why I disregarded it before. Do you know if it does? The only UBX messages my project truly needs are NAV-PVT and NAV-DOP, though I look at other ones for data validation and debugging. Kevin On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 5:06 PM Hal Murray wrote: > > ke...@kevincroissant.com said: > > The library I used for the U-blox UBX protocol frankly sucks, and was a > major > > source of issues. > > What library are you using and/or did you look at gpsd? > > > -- > These are my opinions. I hate spam. > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > -- Kevin Croissant ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded
ke...@kevincroissant.com said: > The library I used for the U-blox UBX protocol frankly sucks, and was a major > source of issues. What library are you using and/or did you look at gpsd? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded
In message , Kevin Croissant writes: >Great! We were hoping that more people would set up similar sites as well, >so I am glad to see interest. >The only outstanding issue with the website is the data collection. The >library I used for the U-blox UBX protocol frankly sucks, and was a major >source of issues. The gpsd software has what looks like a moderately competent python library for UBX. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded
Kevin, I am very interested in your GNSS monitoring website. I would consider building a system similar to yours, perhaps using dual frequency receivers. I am not exactly in 'another part of the world' (though it often seems another planet) in central Missouri at 38.947232, -92.303583. I would like to know more about your setup. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded
Hi Dave, Great! We were hoping that more people would set up similar sites as well, so I am glad to see interest. The only outstanding issue with the website is the data collection. The library I used for the U-blox UBX protocol frankly sucks, and was a major source of issues. As such, messages are occasionally dropped and lost. I would highly recommend picking receivers that have well tested and supported libraries so you do not run into this issue. There's a diagram on the About Us page that shows how the system works, here's a direct link: https://gnssperformancemonitor.com/images/architecture.png There are 4 major subsystems: 1. Data Collection 2. Job Scheduler 3. Data Plotting 4. Website Data is collected and stored in a MySQL/MariaDB database (the database schema is virtually identical to what you get from the datadownload page). A job scheduler runs at multiple regular intervals and runs plotting scripts which fetch data from the database using SQL queries. The data plotter uses matplotlib as a backend to generate png images (and ffmpeg to generate the daily MP4 videos: https://gnssperformancemonitor.com/images/1Day/GPS/GPS_1Day.mp4), which are stored in a directory accessible by the web server. The website uses PHP as a templating language essentially to build the pages, since all that's really changing on each page is links to images (constellation name, timespan). I have uploaded a PDF of our Final Design Review that I presented to my class at the end of last semester, it has a lot of information on implementation and such. See here: https://gnssperformancemonitor.com/time-nuts/Final_Design_Review.pdf Additionally, a pic of the data collection system: https://gnssperformancemonitor.com/time-nuts/datacollection.png Fortunately/unfortunately, I am about to start my EE Masters program, so I am very short on time for more projects. I am currently just maintaining the website, and not adding new features. I don't currently have plans to open source my code but that may change in the future if there is significant interest. Best, Kevin On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 1:38 PM David Witten wrote: > Kevin, > > I am very interested in your GNSS monitoring website. I would consider > building a system similar to yours, perhaps using dual frequency > receivers. I am not exactly in 'another part of the world' (though it > often seems another planet) in central Missouri at 38.947232, -92.303583. > I would like to know more about your setup. > > Dave > -- Kevin Croissant ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded
Hi Mark, What prompts Heather to mark visible satellites as yellow, and not use them? Maybe that the calculated results are too far away from your known position? Regards, Peter On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 at 18:20, Mark Sims wrote: > ... Sats that are visible but not being used for navigation are flagged > in YELLOW. Sats that are actively being used are shown in GREEN and are > used to draw the satellite count plot line (CYAN line at the bottom of the > plot area). > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded
My M8T and Lady Heather, from UTC-4: . When I first checked (July 12, ~10:00?), all Gal sats seen showed with good dBc, but where yellow. . 14:50 all Gal sats seen showed as red, with good dBc. . 22:00 showed ten Gal were N/A and red, three had good dBc: one red, two yellow. . Today July 13, 10:30 showed two Gal yellow with good dBc, several Gal sats as N/A in red. Then jumping all around every few minutes. Samples: . 10:40 two Gal yellow with good dBc, three tracked yellow no dBc and one red all N/A . 11:00 three Gal yellow with good dBc, three tracked yellow no dBc and three red all N/A . 11:08 one Gal yellow with good dBc, four tracked yellow no dBc, three red all N/A . 11:11 two Gal yellow with good dBc, three tracked yellow no dBc, five red all N/A . 11:19 two Gal yellow with good dBc, three tracked yellow no dBc, four red all N/A https://uhr.ptb.de/ is not reporting time. Michael On 13/07/2019 2:33 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message , Mark Sims writes: It seems to more than a little "degradation". My F9T is seeing and tracking Galileo sats, but is not using the results for navigation... Lady Heather shows all Galileo sats in yellow. Selecting Galileo only, the receiver reports it is attempting to acquire satellites and not producing a navigation solution. But that is (almost certainly) because they have the sats broadcast "unhealthy" status. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded
Hi There are an enormous number of combinations and permutations to the whole GNSS timing question. 1) Does your multi band receiver only track GPS L2C? ( = is it like a F9T or F9P) If so, the number of GPS stats will be smaller and performance will not be as good as it might be. 2) Are you afraid of a specific system being “bonked”? Right now the poor people at Galileo are in a mess. A while back it was the GPS guys. Glonass has had more than it’s share of issues. I’m not sure anybody is really watching the Chinese system very closely …. 3) Is this a multi band setup? Without multi band, you are heavily dependent on corrections. Different systems handle them different ways. If you are looking for augmentation (SBAS), can you get it for this system in your region? 4) Multipath is a very real thing. More sats helps. Constellations repeat on a regular basis. Thus some errors on a “single system” will have a very periodic nature to them. Having multiple systems spreads this out a bit. yes the list goes on and on from there …. Bob > On Jul 13, 2019, at 6:34 AM, Dana Whitlow wrote: > > I wonder if a case could be made for multi-GNSS reception in the case of a > poorly- > located GPS antenna at the reception site. That is, could the benefits of > having a lot > more sats in the sky outweigh poorer performance of some of the systems with > respect to other systems? > > Dana > > > On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 1:02 AM Kevin Croissant > wrote: > >> Hi Luciano, >> >> Yes this is typically the case. GPS is the most reliably good system >> currently. When the Galileo system is working nominally and the geometry >> over our antenna is good (remember, the constellation is not yet complete), >> the single frequency performance easily rivals GPS. BeiDou will likely be >> similar once the constellation is finished, assuming they don't >> intentionally degrade the civilian signals over non-Chinese regions. >> GLONASS, well that's another case altogether. >> >> Keep in mind the limitations of the website's data collection - single >> frequency "professional grade" receivers which do not perform carrier-phase >> or any kind of satellite based corrections/augmentations (SBAS, etc). If >> the receivers were more sophisticated and in another region, the story may >> be different. If anyone wants to set up a similar monitoring system in >> another part of the world, let me know, I would be very interested in that. >> >> Kevin >> >> On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 1:05 AM tim...@timeok.it wrote: >> >>> >>> Looking at the data it seems that GPS is the best system among the >>> four, correct? >>> >>> Luciano >>> >>> >>> Da "time-nuts" time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com >>> A "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" >>> time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>> Cc >>> Data Fri, 12 Jul 2019 18:29:10 -0400 >>> Oggetto Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded >>> I built this website as my senior design project last year, >>> unfortunately >>> there's no timing data (except for tdop) being logged but you can see >>> the >>> impact. Data is collected with four ublox m8n receivers, one per >>> constellation. >>> >>> Galileo data from last 1 week: >>> https://gnssperformancemonitor.com/viewdata.php?constellation=2×pan=1 >>> >>> Kevin >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 4:06 PM Hal Murray >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Galileo service is currently degraded, see: >>> https://www.gsc-europa.eu/ >>>>> notice-advisory-to-galileo-users-nagu-2019025 >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> >>>> Is anybody monitoring a Galileo-only setup to see how far off the >>> timing >>>> drifts? >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> These are my opinions. I hate spam. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.f
Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded
I wonder if a case could be made for multi-GNSS reception in the case of a poorly-located GPS antenna at the reception site. That is, could the benefits of having a lot more sats in the sky outweigh poorer performance of some of the systems with respect to other systems? Dana == Certainly, for my needs (~1 us and accurate frequency) I'm sure that the more satellites the better. All being well, a 13 us error in one cluster would be outvoted by the others. Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software for you Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk Twitter: @gm8arv ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded
I wonder if a case could be made for multi-GNSS reception in the case of a poorly- located GPS antenna at the reception site. That is, could the benefits of having a lot more sats in the sky outweigh poorer performance of some of the systems with respect to other systems? Dana On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 1:02 AM Kevin Croissant wrote: > Hi Luciano, > > Yes this is typically the case. GPS is the most reliably good system > currently. When the Galileo system is working nominally and the geometry > over our antenna is good (remember, the constellation is not yet complete), > the single frequency performance easily rivals GPS. BeiDou will likely be > similar once the constellation is finished, assuming they don't > intentionally degrade the civilian signals over non-Chinese regions. > GLONASS, well that's another case altogether. > > Keep in mind the limitations of the website's data collection - single > frequency "professional grade" receivers which do not perform carrier-phase > or any kind of satellite based corrections/augmentations (SBAS, etc). If > the receivers were more sophisticated and in another region, the story may > be different. If anyone wants to set up a similar monitoring system in > another part of the world, let me know, I would be very interested in that. > > Kevin > > On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 1:05 AM tim...@timeok.it wrote: > > > > >Looking at the data it seems that GPS is the best system among the > > four, correct? > > > >Luciano > > > > > >Da "time-nuts" time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com > >A "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" > > time-nuts@lists.febo.com > >Cc > >Data Fri, 12 Jul 2019 18:29:10 -0400 > >Oggetto Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded > >I built this website as my senior design project last year, > > unfortunately > >there's no timing data (except for tdop) being logged but you can see > > the > >impact. Data is collected with four ublox m8n receivers, one per > >constellation. > > > >Galileo data from last 1 week: > >https://gnssperformancemonitor.com/viewdata.php?constellation=2×pan=1 > > > >Kevin > > > >On Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 4:06 PM Hal Murray > > wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> > Galileo service is currently degraded, see: > > https://www.gsc-europa.eu/ > >> > notice-advisory-to-galileo-users-nagu-2019025 > >> > >> Thanks. > >> > >> Is anybody monitoring a Galileo-only setup to see how far off the > > timing > >> drifts? > >> > >> > >> -- > >> These are my opinions. I hate spam. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to > >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > >___ > >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > >To unsubscribe, go to > > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > >and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > -- > Kevin Croissant > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded
In message , Mark Sims writes: >It seems to more than a little "degradation". My F9T is seeing and tracking >Galileo sats, but is not using the results for navigation... Lady Heather >shows all Galileo sats in yellow. Selecting Galileo only, the receiver >reports it is attempting to acquire satellites and not producing a navigation >solution. But that is (almost certainly) because they have the sats broadcast "unhealthy" status. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded
Hi Luciano, Yes this is typically the case. GPS is the most reliably good system currently. When the Galileo system is working nominally and the geometry over our antenna is good (remember, the constellation is not yet complete), the single frequency performance easily rivals GPS. BeiDou will likely be similar once the constellation is finished, assuming they don't intentionally degrade the civilian signals over non-Chinese regions. GLONASS, well that's another case altogether. Keep in mind the limitations of the website's data collection - single frequency "professional grade" receivers which do not perform carrier-phase or any kind of satellite based corrections/augmentations (SBAS, etc). If the receivers were more sophisticated and in another region, the story may be different. If anyone wants to set up a similar monitoring system in another part of the world, let me know, I would be very interested in that. Kevin On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 1:05 AM tim...@timeok.it wrote: > >Looking at the data it seems that GPS is the best system among the > four, correct? > >Luciano > > >Da "time-nuts" time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com >A "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" > time-nuts@lists.febo.com > Cc > Data Fri, 12 Jul 2019 18:29:10 -0400 >Oggetto Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded >I built this website as my senior design project last year, > unfortunately >there's no timing data (except for tdop) being logged but you can see > the >impact. Data is collected with four ublox m8n receivers, one per >constellation. > >Galileo data from last 1 week: >https://gnssperformancemonitor.com/viewdata.php?constellation=2×pan=1 > >Kevin > >On Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 4:06 PM Hal Murray > wrote: > >> >> >> > Galileo service is currently degraded, see: > https://www.gsc-europa.eu/ >> > notice-advisory-to-galileo-users-nagu-2019025 >> >> Thanks. >> >> Is anybody monitoring a Galileo-only setup to see how far off the > timing >> drifts? >> >> >> -- >> These are my opinions. I hate spam. >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >> and follow the instructions there. >> >___ >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > -- Kevin Croissant ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded
Looking at the data it seems that GPS is the best system among the four, correct? Luciano Da "time-nuts" time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com A "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@lists.febo.com Cc Data Fri, 12 Jul 2019 18:29:10 -0400 Oggetto Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded I built this website as my senior design project last year, unfortunately there's no timing data (except for tdop) being logged but you can see the impact. Data is collected with four ublox m8n receivers, one per constellation. Galileo data from last 1 week: https://gnssperformancemonitor.com/viewdata.php?constellation=2×pan=1 Kevin On Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 4:06 PM Hal Murray wrote: > > > > Galileo service is currently degraded, see: https://www.gsc-europa.eu/ > > notice-advisory-to-galileo-users-nagu-2019025 > > Thanks. > > Is anybody monitoring a Galileo-only setup to see how far off the timing > drifts? > > > -- > These are my opinions. I hate spam. > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded
I built this website as my senior design project last year, unfortunately there's no timing data (except for tdop) being logged but you can see the impact. Data is collected with four ublox m8n receivers, one per constellation. Galileo data from last 1 week: https://gnssperformancemonitor.com/viewdata.php?constellation=2=1 Kevin On Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 4:06 PM Hal Murray wrote: > > > > Galileo service is currently degraded, see: https://www.gsc-europa.eu/ > > notice-advisory-to-galileo-users-nagu-2019025 > > Thanks. > > Is anybody monitoring a Galileo-only setup to see how far off the timing > drifts? > > > -- > These are my opinions. I hate spam. > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Galileo service currently degraded
> Galileo service is currently degraded, see: https://www.gsc-europa.eu/ > notice-advisory-to-galileo-users-nagu-2019025 Thanks. Is anybody monitoring a Galileo-only setup to see how far off the timing drifts? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
