Re: [tips] Girls and Boys math scores
?On 30 January, Jim Clark wrote: >Even small differences in averages translate into considerable >imbalance at the extremes (favoring males at the high end), >and this would be even more marked if there were differences >in variability (i.e., more variability in males than females). Yes, indeed! It is a pity that when people are pointing out male advantage at the top end in certain situations, they rarely note that there is usually a corresponding male disadvantage at the bottom end. >It also matters how math is measured ... girls do better in school >generally than boys, perhaps because they are more motivated >and conscientious… In relation to which the following may be of relevance: "Boys overtake girls in maths GCSE as coursework dropped" http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/aug/27/maths-gcse-coursework-dropped The GCSE (General Certificate of Secondary Education) is the exam taken by all school students in the UK at the age of sixteen, usually around ten or twelve subjects according to choice. Coursework refers to projects that undertaken in the student's own time, and has contributed as much as 40 or more percent to the final exam grade in some subjects. As some of us (including journalists) have been pointing out in the decades since coursework was first introduced, there is no way of knowing how much outside help the student has had for his/her coursework. Notoriously, children with professional parents are more likely to get substantial help. (One occasionally reads articles in which journalists have written about how much time they had spent on their child's coursework!) Then again, teachers differ in the way they treat coursework, but that's another aspect of the issue. Going back to Jim's point, I think there is considerable evidence that, as a generality (with all the usual caveats :-) ), girls tend to be more conscientious than boys, and spend more time and effort on home projects than boys. Anecdotally, from my own experience: Mostly I taught mathematics at pre-university level in Further Education Colleges in London, but I did have a couple of years teaching at GCSE level. Almost all the students came directly from local schools, either wanting to improve their grades, or retaking the exam because they had failed the first time. Leaving aside that I resented the time spent on the (mostly pointless) coursework when I could have been teaching them more substantial mathematical material, the differences between the boys and girls were marked. Girls tended to produce more for the coursework, more carefully presented, whereas some of the boys tended to do a rush job at the last moment. Sorry about the stereotyping, but here's another one. There were two Chinese boys in the class. Both of them produced reams of work for their coursework projects. Allen Esterson Former lecturer, Science Department Southwark College, London http://www.esterson.org --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=129 or send a blank email to leave-129-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
Re: [tips] Girls and Boys math scores
Thanks for this info Jim. Sounds like a more nuanced issue than what I had heard. Michael Britt mich...@thepsychfiles.com www.thepsychfiles.com Twitter: mbritt On Jan 30, 2010, at 4:52 PM, Jim Clark wrote: Hi Here is a link to a brief summary of one recent world-wide study showing no overall difference in averages between males and females on measures of math achievement: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/01/100105112303.htm However, Hyde's 1990 meta-analysis showed that gender differences were larger (favoring males) the more selective the population. Even small differences in averages translate into considerable imbalance at the extremes (favoring males at the high end), and this would be even more marked if there were differences in variability (i.e., more variability in males than females). It also matters how math is measured ... girls do better in school generally than boys, perhaps because they are more motivated and conscientious, which could also explain findings such as the above. But on advanced standardized tests, the story appears to be different. There are, for example, still substantial differences on SAT (see following link), although this is influenced by who chooses to write the SAT (e.g., higher proportion of females taking test would translate into lower scores, other things being equal). http://alfin2100.blogspot.com/2010/01/sex-differences-in-math-ability-real.html A good summary of the complex issues involved is by Hyde and others (including Benbow). See: http://www.vanderbilt.edu/Peabody/SMPY/ScienceSexDifferences.pdf So I'm not sure that "really don't differ" quite captures the reality of gender differences in mathematics and related domains. But it depends on what your ultimate goal is, I guess. Take care Jim James M. Clark Professor of Psychology 204-786-9757 204-774-4134 Fax j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca "Britt, Michael" 30-Jan-10 12:16:43 PM >>> Does anyone have the link to the recent research showing that girls and boy's math scores really don't differ? Michael Michael Britt mich...@thepsychfiles.com www.thepsychfiles.com Twitter: mbritt --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13251.645f86b5cec4da0a56ffea7a891720c9&n=T&l=tips&o=117 or send a blank email to leave-117-13251.645f86b5cec4da0a56ffea7a89172...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: michael.br...@thepsychfiles.com . To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13405.0125141592fa9ededc665c55d9958f69&n=T&l=tips&o=120 or send a blank email to leave-120-13405.0125141592fa9ededc665c55d9958...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=121 or send a blank email to leave-121-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
Re: [tips] Girls and Boys math scores
Hi Here is a link to a brief summary of one recent world-wide study showing no overall difference in averages between males and females on measures of math achievement: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/01/100105112303.htm However, Hyde's 1990 meta-analysis showed that gender differences were larger (favoring males) the more selective the population. Even small differences in averages translate into considerable imbalance at the extremes (favoring males at the high end), and this would be even more marked if there were differences in variability (i.e., more variability in males than females). It also matters how math is measured ... girls do better in school generally than boys, perhaps because they are more motivated and conscientious, which could also explain findings such as the above. But on advanced standardized tests, the story appears to be different. There are, for example, still substantial differences on SAT (see following link), although this is influenced by who chooses to write the SAT (e.g., higher proportion of females taking test would translate into lower scores, other things being equal). http://alfin2100.blogspot.com/2010/01/sex-differences-in-math-ability-real.html A good summary of the complex issues involved is by Hyde and others (including Benbow). See: http://www.vanderbilt.edu/Peabody/SMPY/ScienceSexDifferences.pdf So I'm not sure that "really don't differ" quite captures the reality of gender differences in mathematics and related domains. But it depends on what your ultimate goal is, I guess. Take care Jim James M. Clark Professor of Psychology 204-786-9757 204-774-4134 Fax j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca >>> "Britt, Michael" 30-Jan-10 12:16:43 PM >>> Does anyone have the link to the recent research showing that girls and boy's math scores really don't differ? Michael Michael Britt mich...@thepsychfiles.com www.thepsychfiles.com Twitter: mbritt --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13251.645f86b5cec4da0a56ffea7a891720c9&n=T&l=tips&o=117 or send a blank email to leave-117-13251.645f86b5cec4da0a56ffea7a89172...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=120 or send a blank email to leave-120-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
RE: [tips] Prep for Psych stats?
Psych at Belmont Abbey College does require a college level math course as a prerequisite for our statistics for social science course. (Currently our students also have to take a logic course in the philosophy department as a gen ed requirement but they don't have to have had it before stats. Hmmm there's an idea.) Whether the math prereq works or not is hard to evaluate. On the one hand, there are several students who tried to declare the major last semester whose paperwork I refused to sign because they did not meet our 2.5 GPA criterion, and most or possibly all of them had poor grades in the gen ed math course, so it may be serving a "screening" function that indicates to students and to us that perhaps the psychology major may not be a good fit. (We do not have a "weeder" course). However, when I taught stats last semester, out of a class of 18 I had about five students who had trouble with basic math concepts such as the difference between square and square root, how to multiply negative numbers, and how to read < and >. This thread is giving me the idea that I should check to see which gen ed math course those students took or whether they transferred in a math course. Our majors can take college algebra but they can also choose a "math for nonscience majors" course that has some probability and stats in it, and I don't know which prepares them better. Speaking of advanced statistics - we don't offer any. Which is unfortunate especially when we get that rare student who "gets" stats and really wants more. However, we have had good luck with getting our students into summer programs such as the Summer Institute for Training in Biostatistics http://www.stat.ncsu.edu/sibs/ and other things funded through NSF such as http://ehrweb.aaas.org/mge/About.htm. One of my students will go to Iowa for a SIBS program this summer and for her to be eligible for a scholarship I signed up to be a stats mentor at http://www.mathalliance.org/mentorform.asp.o Hope you are warm and dry. There's an inch of ice on my driveway. Nathalie Cote reporting from Fort Mill SC -Original Message- From: Dennis Goff [mailto:dg...@randolphcollege.edu] Sent: Fri 1/29/2010 5:32 PM To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) Subject: RE: [tips] Prep for Psych stats? Our stats course fulfills the quantitative literacy requirement in our general education program. So we don't ask students to take an additional math course. I find that most of my students have the knowledge base I desire. There are of course occasional exceptions. As others have pointed out, I would almost prefer to require a logic course as a prereq. Dennis -- Dennis M. Goff Charles A. Dana Professor of Psychology Department of Psychology Randolph College (Founded as Randolph-Macon Woman's College in 1891) Lynchburg VA 24503 -Original Message- From: Gerald Peterson [mailto:peter...@svsu.edu] Sent: Fri 1/29/2010 10:33 AM To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) Subject: [tips] Prep for Psych stats? We had a discussion at a dept. meeting regarding our requirement of a Math class (involves intermediate algebra) for our Psych Statistics class. This Math class is college level and not remedial, and some of our stats instructors feel the math class is at a level above what should be required for our stats class. All of our students have basic math skills and we initially thought this math class should be required to insure basic arithmetical operations. The class now appears to be at a higher level than some think is necessary. I was wondering if other TIPS folks have a Math pre-req for the Psych Stats class and whether it you feel it functions well as a pre-req. My own view is that students should have basic math skills but do not need a higher level college math class before our Stats class. We have an advanced Stat class where students can sharpen their stats thinking and, of course, those going on to grad work in psych (approx 19%) will have further opportunities to develop understanding of more advanced statistical techniques. Thanks for any input/thoughts. Gerald L. (Gary) Peterson, Ph.D. Professor, Department of Psychology Saginaw Valley State University University Center, MI 48710 989-964-4491 peter...@svsu.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: dg...@randolphcollege.edu. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13169.2bfd597f06c032f81efb35e857e2dd91&n=T&l=tips&o=86 or send a blank email to leave-86-13169.2bfd597f06c032f81efb35e857e2d...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: nathaliec...@bac.edu. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13031.9e1a4ad1551fcb87bfeb7061da4e11a2&n=T&l=tips&o=104 or send a blank email to leave-104-13031.9e1a4ad1551fcb87bfeb7061da4e1...@fs
[tips] Girls and Boys math scores
Does anyone have the link to the recent research showing that girls and boy's math scores really don't differ? Michael Michael Britt mich...@thepsychfiles.com www.thepsychfiles.com Twitter: mbritt --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=117 or send a blank email to leave-117-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
[tips] New archive address for mail-archive
Because of the software change the archives are now at: http://www.mail-archive.com/tips%40fsulist.frostburg.edu/ I will be contacting those in charge of the mail-archive to see if we can merge the previous database with what is a new one now. Bill Bill Southerly, PhD Department of Psychology Frostburg State University Frostburg, MD 21532 301-687-4778 bsouthe...@frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=115 or send a blank email to leave-115-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
Re: [tips] Was Darwin
No. On Jan 30, 2010, at 9:46 AM, michael sylvester wrote: > a hypochrondiac? > > Michael "eccentric" Sylvester,PhD > Daytona Beach,Florida Paul Brandon Emeritus Professor of Psychology Minnesota State University, Mankato paul.bran...@mnsu.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=114 or send a blank email to leave-114-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
[tips] Was Darwin
a hypochrondiac? Michael "omnicentric" Sylvester,PhD Daytona Beach,Florida --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=113 or send a blank email to leave-113-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
[tips] William James and Haiti
William James (who I personally think is the real father of psychology) gave a speech titled The Moral Equivalent of War .It would appear that the outpouring of support for the Haitian people would be a quintessential example. Michael "omnicentric" Sylvester,PhD Daytona Beach,Florida --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=112 or send a blank email to leave-112-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
