Re: [tips] Girls and Horses - Archetype?
Jim, Agreed that children vary widely in their interests, but if the data (which, admittedly we don't have) verified our observations that more females than males are interested in horses at a young age, then this would beg for explanation. Michael Hi Am I missing something ... what is there that requires explanation in terms of Jungian constructs? Children vary widely in their interests presumably for a diverse array of biological and environmental factors. Nothing mysterious or mystical, unless one is looking for that sort of thing. Jim James M. Clark Professor of Psychology 204-786-9757 204-774-4134 Fax j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca Michael Britt mich...@thepsychfiles.com 24-Oct-10 7:53 AM My 11 year old daughter has been interested in horses for a long time (unlike her 11 year old brother, but that's an N of only 2) so not long ago I brought her to a 4H horse farm. I don't visit horse farms that often, but whenever I do I notice that there seems to be a disproportionate number of young girls taking lessons. I mentioned this to a colleague and she agreed and interpreted this in a vague Jungian-archetypal way. I'm not too big on Jung, but I don't have any other explanation. Thoughts? Michael Michael Britt mich...@thepsychfiles.com http://www.ThePsychFiles.com Twitter: mbritt --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13251.645f86b5cec4da0a56ffea7a891720c9n=Tl=tipso=5935 or send a blank email to leave-5935-13251.645f86b5cec4da0a56ffea7a89172...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: michael.br...@thepsychfiles.com. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13405.0125141592fa9ededc665c55d9958f69n=Tl=tipso=5968 or send a blank email to leave-5968-13405.0125141592fa9ededc665c55d9958...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=5969 or send a blank email to leave-5969-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
Re: [tips] Girls and Horses - Archetype?
Hi But would it beg for explanation in terms of mystical processes or in terms of natural biological and environmental factors, as I mentioned? Jim James M. Clark Professor of Psychology 204-786-9757 204-774-4134 Fax j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca Michael mich...@thepsychfiles.com 25-Oct-10 8:59 AM Jim, Agreed that children vary widely in their interests, but if the data (which, admittedly we don't have) verified our observations that more females than males are interested in horses at a young age, then this would beg for explanation. Michael Hi Am I missing something ... what is there that requires explanation in terms of Jungian constructs? Children vary widely in their interests presumably for a diverse array of biological and environmental factors. Nothing mysterious or mystical, unless one is looking for that sort of thing. Jim James M. Clark Professor of Psychology 204-786-9757 204-774-4134 Fax j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca Michael Britt mich...@thepsychfiles.com 24-Oct-10 7:53 AM My 11 year old daughter has been interested in horses for a long time (unlike her 11 year old brother, but that's an N of only 2) so not long ago I brought her to a 4H horse farm. I don't visit horse farms that often, but whenever I do I notice that there seems to be a disproportionate number of young girls taking lessons. I mentioned this to a colleague and she agreed and interpreted this in a vague Jungian-archetypal way. I'm not too big on Jung, but I don't have any other explanation. Thoughts? Michael Michael Britt mich...@thepsychfiles.com http://www.ThePsychFiles.com Twitter: mbritt --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13251.645f86b5cec4da0a56ffea7a891720c9n=Tl=tipso=5935 or send a blank email to leave-5935-13251.645f86b5cec4da0a56ffea7a89172...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: michael.br...@thepsychfiles.com. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13405.0125141592fa9ededc665c55d9958f69n=Tl=tipso=5968 or send a blank email to leave-5968-13405.0125141592fa9ededc665c55d9958...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13251.645f86b5cec4da0a56ffea7a891720c9n=Tl=tipso=5969 or send a blank email to leave-5969-13251.645f86b5cec4da0a56ffea7a89172...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=5970 or send a blank email to leave-5970-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
Re: [tips] Girls and Horses - Archetype?
Do we need a Jungian explanation for the phenomenon of girls (mainly) being gaga over Hello Kitty? :-) A little parsimony, please . . . . Claudia Stanny On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Jim Clark j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca wrote: Hi But would it beg for explanation in terms of mystical processes or in terms of natural biological and environmental factors, as I mentioned? Jim James M. Clark Professor of Psychology 204-786-9757 204-774-4134 Fax j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca Michael mich...@thepsychfiles.com 25-Oct-10 8:59 AM Jim, Agreed that children vary widely in their interests, but if the data (which, admittedly we don't have) verified our observations that more females than males are interested in horses at a young age, then this would beg for explanation. Michael Hi Am I missing something ... what is there that requires explanation in terms of Jungian constructs? Children vary widely in their interests presumably for a diverse array of biological and environmental factors. Nothing mysterious or mystical, unless one is looking for that sort of thing. Jim James M. Clark Professor of Psychology 204-786-9757 204-774-4134 Fax j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca Michael Britt mich...@thepsychfiles.com 24-Oct-10 7:53 AM My 11 year old daughter has been interested in horses for a long time (unlike her 11 year old brother, but that's an N of only 2) so not long ago I brought her to a 4H horse farm. I don't visit horse farms that often, but whenever I do I notice that there seems to be a disproportionate number of young girls taking lessons. I mentioned this to a colleague and she agreed and interpreted this in a vague Jungian-archetypal way. I'm not too big on Jung, but I don't have any other explanation. Thoughts? Michael Michael Britt mich...@thepsychfiles.com http://www.ThePsychFiles.com http://www.thepsychfiles.com/ Twitter: mbritt --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13251.645f86b5cec4da0a56ffea7a891720c9n=Tl=tipso=5935 or send a blank email to leave-5935-13251.645f86b5cec4da0a56ffea7a89172...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: michael.br...@thepsychfiles.com . To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13405.0125141592fa9ededc665c55d9958f69n=Tl=tipso=5968 or send a blank email to leave-5968-13405.0125141592fa9ededc665c55d9958...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13251.645f86b5cec4da0a56ffea7a891720c9n=Tl=tipso=5969 or send a blank email to leave-5969-13251.645f86b5cec4da0a56ffea7a89172...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: csta...@uwf.edu. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13144.1572ed60024e708cf21c4c6f19e7d550n=Tl=tipso=5970 or send a blank email to leave-5970-13144.1572ed60024e708cf21c4c6f19e7d...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=5972 or send a blank email to leave-5972-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
Re: [tips] Girls and Horses - Archetype?
Folks, there actually IS a literature on this subject; see attached. --Kathy Morgan Wheaton College Norton, MA 02766 kmor...@wheatonma.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=5975 or send a blank email to leave-5975-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu HorsesAndWomenRefs.doc Description: MS-Word document
Re: [tips] Girls and Horses - Archetype?
Michael Britt writes: My 11 year old daughter has been interested in horses for a long time (unlike her 11 year old brother, but that's an N of only 2) so not long ago I brought her to a 4H horse farm…I mentioned this to a colleague and she agreed and interpreted this in a vague Jungian-archetypal way. I'm not too big on Jung, but I don't have any other explanation. Try asking an orthodox Freudian (some still exist!). Next, try a (Melanie) Kleinian. Then take your choice. :-) Allen Esterson Former lecturer, Science Department Southwark College, London allenester...@compuserve.com http://www.esterson.org -- [tips] Girls and Horses - Archetype? Michael Britt Sun, 24 Oct 2010 05:53:10 -0700 My 11 year old daughter has been interested in horses for a long time (unlike her 11 year old brother, but that's an N of only 2) so not long ago I brought her to a 4H horse farm. I don't visit horse farms that often, but whenever I do I notice that there seems to be a disproportionate number of young girls taking lessons. I mentioned this to a colleague and she agreed and interpreted this in a vague Jungian-archetypal way. I'm not too big on Jung, but I don't have any other explanation. Thoughts? Michael Michael Britt mich...@thepsychfiles.com http://www.ThePsychFiles.com Twitter: mbritt --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=5937 or send a blank email to leave-5937-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
RE: [tips] Girls and Horses - Archetype?
Hi Michael: Bruno Bettleheim wrote this in his book: The uses of enchantment: the meaning and importance of Fairy Tales (1975). p. 56-57 (you can find it in Amazon.com). Many girls of an older age group are deeply involved with horses; they play with toy horses and spin elaborate fantasies around them. When they get older and have the opportunity, their lives seem to rotate around real horses, which they take excellent care of and seem inseparable from. Psychoanalytic investigation has revealed that overinvolvement in and with horses can stand for many different emotional needs which the girl is trying to satisfy. For example, by controlling this powerful animal she can come to feel that she is controlling the male, or the sexually animalistic, within herself. Imagine what it would do to a girl's enjoyment of riding, to her self-respect, if she were made conscious of this desire which she is acting out in riding. She would be devastated -robbed of a harmless and enjoyable sublimation, and reduced in her own eyes to a bad person. At the same time, she would be hard-pressed to find an equally suitable outlet for such inner pressures, and therefore might not be able to master them. Now you can add this explanation to the Jungian one :) Alejandro -Mensaje original- De: Michael Britt [mailto:mich...@thepsychfiles.com] Enviado el: domingo, 24 de octubre de 2010 07:53 Para: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) Asunto: [tips] Girls and Horses - Archetype? My 11 year old daughter has been interested in horses for a long time (unlike her 11 year old brother, but that's an N of only 2) so not long ago I brought her to a 4H horse farm. I don't visit horse farms that often, but whenever I do I notice that there seems to be a disproportionate number of young girls taking lessons. I mentioned this to a colleague and she agreed and interpreted this in a vague Jungian-archetypal way. I'm not too big on Jung, but I don't have any other explanation. Thoughts? Michael Michael Britt mich...@thepsychfiles.com http://www.ThePsychFiles.com Twitter: mbritt --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: alejandro.franc...@gmail.com. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=49237.ebea519cc0cae7f746ec818c8df32992n=T l=tipso=5935 or send a blank email to leave-5935-49237.ebea519cc0cae7f746ec818c8df32...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=5939 or send a blank email to leave-5939-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
RE: [tips] Girls and Horses - Archetype?
Michael: For the sake of parsimony *and* the aforementioned likelihood of harming someone's enjoyment needlessly, I would stick with a behavioristic explanation. Mildly ironic? :) I might add that it is one of the few sports where those who are less strong and more empathic can equal or exceed the accomplishments of those who are stronger and less sensitive - thus may be more rewarding or reinforcing for some than for others (Not even getting to the complexities of male and female developmental differences, anthropological and cultural issues, etc.). I think it is more likely that one can find a parsimonious explanation by looking to the effects environmental variables (e.g., parents and their expectations) rather than attempting to explain it based on far more complex phenomena. (Also, is this backed up by data that females are more involved with horses or are we speaking purely from anecdote? I honestly do not have a clue on that. Apologies if this is more terse than I intended- I recognize that most of what's been said is light-banter - this was constructed rather quickly and I hope does not reflect a dismissive tone). :) Tim ___ Timothy O. Shearon, PhD Professor, Department of Psychology The College of Idaho Caldwell, ID 83605 email: tshea...@collegeofidaho.edu teaching: intro to neuropsychology; psychopharmacology; general; history and systems You can't teach an old dogma new tricks. Dorothy Parker From: Alejandro Franco [alejandro.franc...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2010 1:53 PM To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) Subject: RE: [tips] Girls and Horses - Archetype? Hi Michael: Bruno Bettleheim wrote this in his book: The uses of enchantment: the meaning and importance of Fairy Tales (1975). p. 56-57 (you can find it in Amazon.com). Many girls of an older age group are deeply involved with horses; they play with toy horses and spin elaborate fantasies around them. When they get older and have the opportunity, their lives seem to rotate around real horses, which they take excellent care of and seem inseparable from. Psychoanalytic investigation has revealed that overinvolvement in and with horses can stand for many different emotional needs which the girl is trying to satisfy. For example, by controlling this powerful animal she can come to feel that she is controlling the male, or the sexually animalistic, within herself. Imagine what it would do to a girl's enjoyment of riding, to her self-respect, if she were made conscious of this desire which she is acting out in riding. She would be devastated -robbed of a harmless and enjoyable sublimation, and reduced in her own eyes to a bad person. At the same time, she would be hard-pressed to find an equally suitable outlet for such inner pressures, and therefore might not be able to master them. Now you can add this explanation to the Jungian one :) Alejandro --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=5941 or send a blank email to leave-5941-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
