Re: Meaning of threads
Using the worker-mpm or fork-mpm, apache does the same nasty thing with threads and keep-alive, although I believe that when its starts running out of threads it stops offering keep-alives - and to make matters worse - for each connection you now have 2 threads - one for apache and one for tomcat - Andrew On Jan 25, 2005, at 6:46 AM, Sean M. Duncan wrote: What is the impact of having apache httpd allow keep alive requests when using the AJP connector to tomcat? Does this have any impact on tomcat's thread usage? How well does httpd itself deal with keep alive pipelines under a heavy user load? -Sean - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Meaning of threads
What is the impact of having apache httpd allow keep alive requests when using the AJP connector to tomcat? Does this have any impact on tomcat's thread usage? How well does httpd itself deal with keep alive pipelines under a heavy user load? -Sean On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 16:23 -0600, Filip Hanik - Dev wrote: > no, think about it a little bit longer, what does a keepalive connection do, > > it hogs one thread per client, not per concurrent user. so now other clients > will be stuck waiting cause you have keepalive turned > on, and a user is sitting idle doing nothing, but yet, taking up server > resources > > Filip > > - Original Message - > From: "Dola Woolfe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Tomcat Users List" > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 3:50 PM > Subject: Re: Meaning of threads > > > That's counterintuitive, isn't it? > > How come? > > --- Filip Hanik - Dev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > the number of threads will depend on the size of > > your machine, > > but to support many concurrent users, you will want > > to turn off keep alive connections, as these will > > have the opposite effect. > > > > Filip > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Dola Woolfe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Tomcat Users List" > > > > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 3:29 PM > > Subject: Re: Meaning of threads > > > > > > Yes, I get the direction this is going in! > > > > I assume that the reason for having threads waiting > > is > > that they take time to be created? And you don't > > want > > to have too many because they take up memory? > > > > I can't resist asking a question about optimal > > values. > > Since the answer is obviously "it depends" let me > > put > > my question this way. If you were running > > "craigslist" > > (I assume you've heard of it) what would these > > values > > be? How about ebay? > > > > > > --- Filip Hanik - Dev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > >maxThreads="150" > > > > > > your server can handle a maximum of 150 concurrent > > > clients > > > > > > >minSpareThreads="25" > > > if your server is idle, it will at least have 25 > > > threads waiting to handle requests > > > > > > >maxSpareThreads="75" > > > if your server is idle, it will have no more than > > 75 > > > threads waiting to handle requests > > > > > > you get the direction this is going in, right? > > > Filip > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Dola Woolfe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "Tom Cat" > > > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 2:51 PM > > > Subject: Meaning of threads > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Where can I read about the meaning of the > > following > > > options: maxThreads="150" minSpareThreads="25" > > > maxSpareThreads="75" > > > > > > My server tends to lock out a user who bombards it > > > with requests so I'm wondering whether those > > options > > > have anything to do with it before I post the > > > problem > > > here. > > > > > > > > > Aaron Fude > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > All your favorites on one personal page - Try My > > > Yahoo! > > > http://my.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > - > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > - > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: AW: Meaning of threads
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Re: AW: Meaning of threads
"In my experience however, this does NOT work well in a high traffic situation." I'm sure you're not saying that "Tomcat does NOT work well in a high traffic situation". You are just saying that in a high traffic situation one should turn off keep alives. Am I guessing correctly that I have only a few persistent visitors (such as an office web application that is a front end to a database) then turning keep alives on will cause the data to be returned to the user more promptly. But if, say, you are running an eBay type site, keep alives should be turned off. Any single user will suffer a little but the traffic will be handled better. Aaron Fude __ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: AW: Meaning of threads
On Jan 24, 2005, at 11:09 PM, Steffen Heil wrote: Hi the number of threads will depend on the size of your machine, but to support many concurrent users, you will want to turn off keep alive connections, as these will have the opposite effect. Wouldn't it make more sense to enable keep alive connections and increase the thread count - if memory suffices? Unfortunately not. IMHO threads are over used and over rated. Have a look at the reasons THTTPD and Zeus webserver were created. I was told that the 'Java Servlet Spec' (I think this was the one) requires one thread per connection. I can understand the reasoning behind this, as it makes the implementation much easier. In my experience however, this does NOT work well in a high traffic situation. It makes NO sense for a machine to need to deal with 1000+ threads. (Unless of course you have an E15000 in the basement with 1000 processors). I had major problems with Debian Woody as the supplied Glib C as I was unable to get java to start more than 250 threads. Sarge was better in that it supported the new linux threading library out of the box. I do not have any experience with Solaris or Windows when dealing with that many threads. You need to disable keep-alives, becuase if you don't you end up wasting a lot of threads that just sit waiting for the next request on that connection - meaning even more threads just hanging around. The scary thing is, imagine something hangs on the backend for 30 seconds, and then all your 1000 threads start trying to do something at once You will end up with a load of 1000 and ALL your requests will take a long time to return. It may be interesting to replace the http connector for tomcat with one that uses "select" and uses 'threads' as a type of worker pool. This way, you can deal with all the connections in the select loop (incl. keep-alive) and still have the advantage of not needing to remember state due to the worker threads to the back end... My 2c Andrew - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Meaning of threads
no, think about it a little bit longer, what does a keepalive connection do, it hogs one thread per client, not per concurrent user. so now other clients will be stuck waiting cause you have keepalive turned on, and a user is sitting idle doing nothing, but yet, taking up server resources Filip - Original Message - From: "Dola Woolfe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Tomcat Users List" Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 3:50 PM Subject: Re: Meaning of threads That's counterintuitive, isn't it? How come? --- Filip Hanik - Dev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > the number of threads will depend on the size of > your machine, > but to support many concurrent users, you will want > to turn off keep alive connections, as these will > have the opposite effect. > > Filip > > - Original Message - > From: "Dola Woolfe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Tomcat Users List" > > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 3:29 PM > Subject: Re: Meaning of threads > > > Yes, I get the direction this is going in! > > I assume that the reason for having threads waiting > is > that they take time to be created? And you don't > want > to have too many because they take up memory? > > I can't resist asking a question about optimal > values. > Since the answer is obviously "it depends" let me > put > my question this way. If you were running > "craigslist" > (I assume you've heard of it) what would these > values > be? How about ebay? > > > --- Filip Hanik - Dev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >maxThreads="150" > > > > your server can handle a maximum of 150 concurrent > > clients > > > > >minSpareThreads="25" > > if your server is idle, it will at least have 25 > > threads waiting to handle requests > > > > >maxSpareThreads="75" > > if your server is idle, it will have no more than > 75 > > threads waiting to handle requests > > > > you get the direction this is going in, right? > > Filip > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Dola Woolfe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Tom Cat" > > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 2:51 PM > > Subject: Meaning of threads > > > > > > Hi, > > > > Where can I read about the meaning of the > following > > options: maxThreads="150" minSpareThreads="25" > > maxSpareThreads="75" > > > > My server tends to lock out a user who bombards it > > with requests so I'm wondering whether those > options > > have anything to do with it before I post the > > problem > > here. > > > > > > Aaron Fude > > > > > > > > __ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > All your favorites on one personal page - Try My > > Yahoo! > > http://my.yahoo.com > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Meaning of threads
I would also consider turning of keepalive. Unfortunately tomcat (and apache) both setup one thread per connection. You may be able to use squid as a reverse proxy if you are having load/ number of connection/ thread problems depending on your application Andrew On Jan 24, 2005, at 10:11 PM, Filip Hanik - Dev wrote: maxThreads="150" your server can handle a maximum of 150 concurrent clients minSpareThreads="25" if your server is idle, it will at least have 25 threads waiting to handle requests maxSpareThreads="75" if your server is idle, it will have no more than 75 threads waiting to handle requests you get the direction this is going in, right? Filip My server tends to lock out a user who bombards it with requests so I'm wondering whether those options have anything to do with it before I post the problem here. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
AW: Meaning of threads
Hi > the number of threads will depend on the size of your > machine, but to support many concurrent users, you will want > to turn off keep alive connections, as these will have the > opposite effect. Wouldn't it make more sense to enable keep alive connections and increase the thread count - if memory suffices? Even if not, the keep-alive timeout should be decreased instead of disabled all together. Additionally I'd like to see tomcat to be able to drop keep-alive connection exactly then, when all threads are busy and a new connection is to be etablished. That would give us the benefit of keep alive connections - faster data delivery for users - as well as optimal thread usage even on small thread pools. What is your opinion? Regards, Steffen smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: Meaning of threads
That's counterintuitive, isn't it? How come? --- Filip Hanik - Dev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > the number of threads will depend on the size of > your machine, > but to support many concurrent users, you will want > to turn off keep alive connections, as these will > have the opposite effect. > > Filip > > - Original Message - > From: "Dola Woolfe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Tomcat Users List" > > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 3:29 PM > Subject: Re: Meaning of threads > > > Yes, I get the direction this is going in! > > I assume that the reason for having threads waiting > is > that they take time to be created? And you don't > want > to have too many because they take up memory? > > I can't resist asking a question about optimal > values. > Since the answer is obviously "it depends" let me > put > my question this way. If you were running > "craigslist" > (I assume you've heard of it) what would these > values > be? How about ebay? > > > --- Filip Hanik - Dev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >maxThreads="150" > > > > your server can handle a maximum of 150 concurrent > > clients > > > > >minSpareThreads="25" > > if your server is idle, it will at least have 25 > > threads waiting to handle requests > > > > >maxSpareThreads="75" > > if your server is idle, it will have no more than > 75 > > threads waiting to handle requests > > > > you get the direction this is going in, right? > > Filip > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Dola Woolfe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Tom Cat" > > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 2:51 PM > > Subject: Meaning of threads > > > > > > Hi, > > > > Where can I read about the meaning of the > following > > options: maxThreads="150" minSpareThreads="25" > > maxSpareThreads="75" > > > > My server tends to lock out a user who bombards it > > with requests so I'm wondering whether those > options > > have anything to do with it before I post the > > problem > > here. > > > > > > Aaron Fude > > > > > > > > __ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > All your favorites on one personal page - Try My > > Yahoo! > > http://my.yahoo.com > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Meaning of threads
the number of threads will depend on the size of your machine, but to support many concurrent users, you will want to turn off keep alive connections, as these will have the opposite effect. Filip - Original Message - From: "Dola Woolfe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Tomcat Users List" Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 3:29 PM Subject: Re: Meaning of threads Yes, I get the direction this is going in! I assume that the reason for having threads waiting is that they take time to be created? And you don't want to have too many because they take up memory? I can't resist asking a question about optimal values. Since the answer is obviously "it depends" let me put my question this way. If you were running "craigslist" (I assume you've heard of it) what would these values be? How about ebay? --- Filip Hanik - Dev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >maxThreads="150" > > your server can handle a maximum of 150 concurrent > clients > > >minSpareThreads="25" > if your server is idle, it will at least have 25 > threads waiting to handle requests > > >maxSpareThreads="75" > if your server is idle, it will have no more than 75 > threads waiting to handle requests > > you get the direction this is going in, right? > Filip > > ----- Original Message - > From: "Dola Woolfe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Tom Cat" > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 2:51 PM > Subject: Meaning of threads > > > Hi, > > Where can I read about the meaning of the following > options: maxThreads="150" minSpareThreads="25" > maxSpareThreads="75" > > My server tends to lock out a user who bombards it > with requests so I'm wondering whether those options > have anything to do with it before I post the > problem > here. > > > Aaron Fude > > > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > All your favorites on one personal page - Try My > Yahoo! > http://my.yahoo.com > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Meaning of threads
Yes, I get the direction this is going in! I assume that the reason for having threads waiting is that they take time to be created? And you don't want to have too many because they take up memory? I can't resist asking a question about optimal values. Since the answer is obviously "it depends" let me put my question this way. If you were running "craigslist" (I assume you've heard of it) what would these values be? How about ebay? --- Filip Hanik - Dev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >maxThreads="150" > > your server can handle a maximum of 150 concurrent > clients > > >minSpareThreads="25" > if your server is idle, it will at least have 25 > threads waiting to handle requests > > >maxSpareThreads="75" > if your server is idle, it will have no more than 75 > threads waiting to handle requests > > you get the direction this is going in, right? > Filip > > - Original Message - > From: "Dola Woolfe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Tom Cat" > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 2:51 PM > Subject: Meaning of threads > > > Hi, > > Where can I read about the meaning of the following > options: maxThreads="150" minSpareThreads="25" > maxSpareThreads="75" > > My server tends to lock out a user who bombards it > with requests so I'm wondering whether those options > have anything to do with it before I post the > problem > here. > > > Aaron Fude > > > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > All your favorites on one personal page - Try My > Yahoo! > http://my.yahoo.com > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Meaning of threads
>maxThreads="150" your server can handle a maximum of 150 concurrent clients >minSpareThreads="25" if your server is idle, it will at least have 25 threads waiting to handle requests >maxSpareThreads="75" if your server is idle, it will have no more than 75 threads waiting to handle requests you get the direction this is going in, right? Filip - Original Message - From: "Dola Woolfe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Tom Cat" Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 2:51 PM Subject: Meaning of threads Hi, Where can I read about the meaning of the following options: maxThreads="150" minSpareThreads="25" maxSpareThreads="75" My server tends to lock out a user who bombards it with requests so I'm wondering whether those options have anything to do with it before I post the problem here. Aaron Fude __ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page - Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Meaning of threads
Hi, Where can I read about the meaning of the following options: maxThreads="150" minSpareThreads="25" maxSpareThreads="75" My server tends to lock out a user who bombards it with requests so I'm wondering whether those options have anything to do with it before I post the problem here. Aaron Fude __ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
