Topband: VE3DO Loop
A detailed analysis of the VE3DO Loop is on my web site: http://www.ok1rr.com/index.php/antennas/8-the-ve3do-receiving-loop A NEC file for further investigation is available via email upon request. 73 Martin, OK1RR _ Topband Reflector
Topband: EWLantenna use on topband
Several yeas ago when the EWL receiving antenna came out in QST I built several to rotate. electrically. Problem reared its' ugly head and burned out protective fuse in input to receiver of Ten Tec Omni VI Plus. The received signals were masked in a noise that I later surmised was the signal from very tall FM Broadcast tower on 103.3 mhz. that sounded like a rushing noise. The tower is approximately one mile from my shack in full view in the path to Europe. I would like to try 160 again. I still have the naked 130 foot of Rohn tower in the backyard with no antennas on it at all. It is grounded and guyed. I am 75 yrs of age, but would like to give 160 one more try. If anyone feels so inclined, I would like to communicate via email DIRECTLY for any input you might give. At 74, my energy level is somewhat less than when I was 50. My shack is on four acres in the rural area of Louisiana with no restrictions. Thanks for reading and any interest you might have. 73, John, K5PGW _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: New 160M high performance receiving antenna at W3LPL
I have been wondering if the antenna element in phased arrays could be a loop rather than a vertical. My thinking is that the loop has some level of directivity so phasing two of them should result in better side lobe suppression compared to a vertical. Is there any merit to this thought? Specifically, will I see better RDF numbers if I were to use loop elements in any of the active 8 and 4 circle systems (e.g., DX Engineering, Hi-Z Antennas, etc.)? Hi Rudy, A loop can work in a fixed array, or bi-directional array. My first antenna allowing me to work JA's through LORAN from Ohio was a long array of loops, although these were elongated loops. I also had long end-fire arrays of small inverted delta loops in Cleveland in the 80's, and small active verticals. Small loops do not work well when used in things like four squares or 8 circle arrays. A multiple direction array, like a four square or 8-circle, requires a uniform pattern of uniform phase from each element or cell. With a small loop, phase flips 180-degrees immediately after crossing the null. Also, the directivity is generally poor because the small loop has two very sharp null points though the loop axis, but a broad response everywhere else. Both of these things actually hurt performance of arrays with loops that depend on phasing to eliminate side nulls. Elongated loops are a different story, because (we probably all know) elongated loops are not really loops in function. They are really phased verticals, and the horizontal part or component of the conductors is simply a phasing line. K9AY's, Flags, Pennants, EWE's, and other forms of elongated loops are really all just phased verticals in function. They have a wider null and no sudden phase shift at the null, and no null cone at the side or loop axis. The best element for a traditional 8-circle or four square will always be a simple vertical, and even in a broadside array we would want to avoid small loops with deep axis nulls. They are OK as cells in an end-fire array, but not particularly advantageous for pattern unless elongated. I used small loops as a matter of construction convenience as deltas in a long endfire array, but the deep side null in that array was really created by out-of-phase cells of deltas and not the sharp null pattern of the individual delta. It could have just as well been verticals with no loss of pattern. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: [CQ-Contest] Wireless Remote Control Relays
Hi Milt - do you get NCJ? A few issues ago (May June 2012) I had an article in there about this. I'm sending you a copy. I am using these for an 8-way receiving antenna hub. There are some minor operational issues, but the port-to-port isolation appears to be ~30 dB, which is adequate for me My version is MS Word 2010 - let me know if you need an older one. I'm copying this to the topband reflector, but of course the attachment will be stripped off. If anyone needs one, please contact me directly. 73, Pete N4ZR Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com. For spots, please go to your favorite ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node. On 2/12/2013 7:19 PM, Milt -- N5IA wrote: A question to the informed masses. A year or so ago I purchased some wireless remote control, 8 relay, modules from some source on E-Bay. Obviously at the time the units appealed to me, and apparently the price was right because I purchased 10 of them. Well, they have sit in the USPS shipping box for this length of time and I am now trying to figure out what project I had in mind for them; and how to use them. SOOO Does anyone have any experience with these units which have a sole identifying mark, silk screened on the RX and relay board, of CDKZQ-8L. The manufacture date is 2011.10.04. These units apparently work on 310 MHz. The only result I get in a web search is a Linear Delta Remotes company. But nothing they show for products resembles these units. The tiny remote control transmitter has larger, red colored keys numbered 1 2, and 3-8 on smaller black colored keys. It has a small telescoping antenna. These units are very well constructed, operate at 12 VDC, and look to be SPDT relays with 3 connections per relay on the terminal boards. Does anyone out there know anything about this unit; in particular how to program the channels for control of the eight relays? For anyone wanting to see them, respond directly to me and I will send you a couple of jpeg images. Thanks in advance for any assistance that can be offered. 73 de Milt, N5IA - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2639/6099 - Release Date: 02/12/13 ___ CQ-Contest mailing list cq-cont...@contesting.com http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Genius I tells ya, pure Genius
On 2013-02-12, at 9:37 PM, Gary Smith wrote: Calling DX on your dummy load means there are two dummys in the shack... Looks down, shuffles feet... Hi Gary, Don't feel so bad... Back in the mid-70's---when my Ham buddies I were so much younger, and indulged on a semi-regular basis in liquid refreshments that were a tad spunkier than your usual Dr. Pepper soft drink---I was giving a demonstration to a friend of how well my Heathkit SB-400 Hallicrafters S-77A worked on 40-meters. Well, the ...wobbly pops came out at about the same time as I cruised the band: signals were down somewhat, but I still managed to raise a VE2 that was about a 559. Upon completion of the QSO, I noticed that the antenna had been disconnected from the antenna tuner the whole time! Somehow the tuning of the transmatch allowed it to become a dummy load in of itself---yet there was the VE2 in the log, as large as life itself... ...What a pity that youth is wasted upon the young...! ~73!~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Receive antennas from 5X
Good info, Steve I too worked Paul for my first 5X Q on topband. I think he also used one of our BCS (wire) units in Uganda. But low dipole can do the job. I think we need to remember that Paul was a single op, probably in a fairly quiet (electrically) area. Fast fwd 20 years and more noisy stuff. And with a multiop setup, that 5X8C has, may be generating their own noise? 5X8C is making NA Qs each nite but I know the rx condx aren't best. Not so good on this end either. Some of this is just funky condx. Keep pluggin 73 George W8UVZ Hi Dave Greetings from Western Australia! I had a number of contacts on 160m with Paul Wyse 5X4F during the later half of the 1990s. Paul had a great signal on 160m with only a 240’ dipole at 36’, fed with open wire, and 100W from a TS450S. He had no separate receiving antenna but could hear very well. Based on Paul’s success, my guess is that a dipole with as high central point as you can get it is going to be the best rx and tx antenna from where you are. Unfortunately vertically polarised antennas aren’t always the best on 160m, particularly when you are near the equator and the ground conductivity is marginal. Freshwater and mud can be quite disappointing in this regard. Vy 73 Steve, VK6VZ _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: New 160M high performance receiving antenna at W3LPL
Tom, Thanks for the insightful reply. Looks like there is no free lunch here- I can't get better performance by simply using a different circle array element. Bummer, I will have to stick with the verticals. If space is not an issue, will enlarging the circle diameter make any difference? Note, however, that I am considering the 3-band commercial solutions (160, 80, and 40m 8 circles). Rudy N2WQ From: Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com To: Rudy Bakalov r_baka...@yahoo.com; topband@contesting.com Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:53 AM Subject: Re: Topband: New 160M high performance receiving antenna at W3LPL I have been wondering if the antenna element in phased arrays could be a loop rather than a vertical. My thinking is that the loop has some level of directivity so phasing two of them should result in better side lobe suppression compared to a vertical. Is there any merit to this thought? Specifically, will I see better RDF numbers if I were to use loop elements in any of the active 8 and 4 circle systems (e.g., DX Engineering, Hi-Z Antennas, etc.)? Hi Rudy, A loop can work in a fixed array, or bi-directional array. My first antenna allowing me to work JA's through LORAN from Ohio was a long array of loops, although these were elongated loops. I also had long end-fire arrays of small inverted delta loops in Cleveland in the 80's, and small active verticals. Small loops do not work well when used in things like four squares or 8 circle arrays. A multiple direction array, like a four square or 8-circle, requires a uniform pattern of uniform phase from each element or cell. With a small loop, phase flips 180-degrees immediately after crossing the null. Also, the directivity is generally poor because the small loop has two very sharp null points though the loop axis, but a broad response everywhere else. Both of these things actually hurt performance of arrays with loops that depend on phasing to eliminate side nulls. Elongated loops are a different story, because (we probably all know) elongated loops are not really loops in function. They are really phased verticals, and the horizontal part or component of the conductors is simply a phasing line. K9AY's, Flags, Pennants, EWE's, and other forms of elongated loops are really all just phased verticals in function. They have a wider null and no sudden phase shift at the null, and no null cone at the side or loop axis. The best element for a traditional 8-circle or four square will always be a simple vertical, and even in a broadside array we would want to avoid small loops with deep axis nulls. They are OK as cells in an end-fire array, but not particularly advantageous for pattern unless elongated. I used small loops as a matter of construction convenience as deltas in a long endfire array, but the deep side null in that array was really created by out-of-phase cells of deltas and not the sharp null pattern of the individual delta. It could have just as well been verticals with no loss of pattern. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: New 160M high performance receiving antenna at W3LPL
Hi Tim, This does look like a viable option. Too bad it is single-band and only bi-directional, although a star-like arrangement (with lots of relays) could work too. Rudy N2WQ From: Tim Duffy k...@k3lr.com To: 'Rudy Bakalov' r_baka...@yahoo.com; topband@contesting.com Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:43 AM Subject: Re: Topband: New 160M high performance receiving antenna at W3LPL Hello Rudy, I am using a pair of VE3DO loops in a phased array for 160 meters. The two loops are spaced 5/8 wavelength (at 1830 KHz) apart at K3LR - aimed at 45/225 degrees (a DPDT relay selects the direction for each loop). The VE3DO loops are simple to construct and work very well. The in phase feed for the two loops is simple with equal lengths of 50 ohm coax to a T connector and a 25 to 50 ohm UNUN to match to the 50 ohm RX. The VSWR of the system is excellent with the 9:1 K9AY transformers at each loop feed point up thru 7 MHz. I suggest using a DX Engineering RPA-1 preamp operating at 16 VDC to feed the receiver for best results. Details for the inexpensive VE3DO loop receive antenna is here: http://topbanddinner.com/page_presentations.html 73! Tim K3LR -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Rudy Bakalov Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 12:00 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: New 160M high performance receiving antenna at W3LPL I have been wondering if the antenna element in phased arrays could be a loop rather than a vertical. My thinking is that the loop has some level of directivity so phasing two of them should result in better side lobe suppression compared to a vertical. Is there any merit to this thought? Specifically, will I see better RDF numbers if I were to use loop elements in any of the active 8 and 4 circle systems (e.g., DX Engineering, Hi-Z Antennas, etc.)? Rudy N2WQ _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: New 160M high performance receiving antenna at W3LPL
There would be little advantage with the loops because once the side/rear response is 20 or so db down, the RDF is determined by the width of the forward lobe. John K9DX Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 10:00:13 -0800 From: r_baka...@yahoo.com To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: New 160M high performance receiving antenna at W3LPL I have been wondering if the antenna element in phased arrays could be a loop rather than a vertical. My thinking is that the loop has some level of directivity so phasing two of them should result in better side lobe suppression compared to a vertical. Is there any merit to this thought? Specifically, will I see better RDF numbers if I were to use loop elements in any of the active 8 and 4 circle systems (e.g., DX Engineering, Hi-Z Antennas, etc.)? Rudy N2WQ _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: VE3DO Loop
A detailed analysis of the VE3DO Loop is on my web site: http://www.ok1rr.com/index.php/antennas/8-the-ve3do-receiving-loop A NEC file for further investigation is available via email upon request. That's a good analysis Martin. None of these antennas are any different than any others in function, and there is virtually no difference in noise or directivity. They are all, if properly built, the same. While they all behave like two short verticals, they will all work a little worse than two pure short verticals because the transmission lines between the verticals (the horizontal wires) radiate. There are an infinite number of shape changes, and several feed method changes, that can be used. But they all, in the end, work about the same when properly built. Two small phased verticals would just be better because feedline radiation, which is the horizontal space the wire occupies, is eliminated and contained inside a shielded cable. They can be triangles, U's, rectangles, flags, or anything else with a horizontal length that is long compared to vertical height of the ends. They can use the ground as a return (which makes them dependent on good earthing rods for connections) like an EWE or the VE3DO loop (which is exactly like a EWE with displaced grounding rods), or a solid wire as a return like a flag, pennant, rectangle, or K9AY. The K9AY, because of feed and resistor location, demands a ground rod to isolate the resistor and feed paths. They are a different principle than the Beverage or wave antenna. The Beverage requires some loss in earth, and stops working over very good earth. These small verticals in the form of loops or half-loops work better with improved earth. They would work over poor earth, and better yet over perfect earth. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: [CQ-Contest] Wireless Remote Control Relays
They are probably the nearly the same as this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/130545242235?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 A mau On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Milt -- N5IA n...@zia-connection.comwrote: A question to the informed masses. A year or so ago I purchased some wireless remote control, 8 relay, modules from some source on E-Bay. Obviously at the time the units appealed to me, and apparently the price was right because I purchased 10 of them. Well, they have sit in the USPS shipping box for this length of time and I am now trying to figure out what project I had in mind for them; and how to use them. SOOO Does anyone have any experience with these units which have a sole identifying mark, silk screened on the RX and relay board, of CDKZQ-8L. The manufacture date is 2011.10.04. These units apparently work on 310 MHz. The only result I get in a web search is a Linear Delta Remotes company. But nothing they show for products resembles these units. The tiny remote control transmitter has larger, red colored keys numbered 1 2, and 3-8 on smaller black colored keys. It has a small telescoping antenna. These units are very well constructed, operate at 12 VDC, and look to be SPDT relays with 3 connections per relay on the terminal boards. Does anyone out there know anything about this unit; in particular how to program the channels for control of the eight relays? For anyone wanting to see them, respond directly to me and I will send you a couple of jpeg images. Thanks in advance for any assistance that can be offered. 73 de Milt, N5IA - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2639/6099 - Release Date: 02/12/13 ___ CQ-Contest mailing list cq-cont...@contesting.com http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: [CQ-Contest] Wireless Remote Control Relays
Thanks Gary for that information. It is the first of this kind I have seen. Pete, N4ZR has reverse engineered the board and has produced a similar instruction. From the info from the two sources, I can probably get something to work. The 8 relay board is not now available as you can see in the E-Bay notice. However, the 4 relay and 15 relay boards and remote controls made by the same company appear to be available for purchase. I can say that the boards and relays are high quality, and should be of use to lots of folks who might want to put a small amount of work into them. Pete has an article in the NCJ about one year ago that details what he has done to use his 8 relay board remotely, including inducing the 310 MHz RF signal onto his feed line to get more distance to his antenna selection location. Thanks again, and good luck to anyone who tackles the project. de Milt, n5Ia From: Gerry Hull Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 2:47 PM To: Milt -- N5IA Cc: topband@contesting.com ; cq-cont...@contesting.com ; anten...@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Wireless Remote Control Relays They are probably the nearly the same as this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/130545242235?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 A mau On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Milt -- N5IA n...@zia-connection.com wrote: A question to the informed masses. A year or so ago I purchased some wireless remote control, 8 relay, modules from some source on E-Bay. Obviously at the time the units appealed to me, and apparently the price was right because I purchased 10 of them. Well, they have sit in the USPS shipping box for this length of time and I am now trying to figure out what project I had in mind for them; and how to use them. SOOO Does anyone have any experience with these units which have a sole identifying mark, silk screened on the RX and relay board, of CDKZQ-8L. The manufacture date is 2011.10.04. These units apparently work on 310 MHz. The only result I get in a web search is a Linear Delta Remotes company. But nothing they show for products resembles these units. The tiny remote control transmitter has larger, red colored keys numbered 1 2, and 3-8 on smaller black colored keys. It has a small telescoping antenna. These units are very well constructed, operate at 12 VDC, and look to be SPDT relays with 3 connections per relay on the terminal boards. Does anyone out there know anything about this unit; in particular how to program the channels for control of the eight relays? For anyone wanting to see them, respond directly to me and I will send you a couple of jpeg images. Thanks in advance for any assistance that can be offered. 73 de Milt, N5IA - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2639/6099 - Release Date: 02/12/13 ___ CQ-Contest mailing list cq-cont...@contesting.com http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2639/6099 - Release Date: 02/12/13 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2639/6099 - Release Date: 02/12/13 _ Topband Reflector
