Topband: Single antenna port xcvr but want to employ separate receive antenna
Have my vertical working great and have a small Delta-loop low band receive antenna BUT the Ten Tec Jupiter doesn't have a separate receive antenna like a K2, for instance (I borrowed a K2 to try out but the buttons/controls are to small for me to operate as I have a severe case of peripheral neuropathy, courtesy of Agent Orange).So, I am up and running and will be in the CQ 160 contest at the end of January but have no means, currently, of switching rapidly 'tween the top loaded vertical and loop. A T/R switch won't do it for meso looking at a DX Engineering RTR-1A but sure don't like the price!!http://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-rtr-1a Anyone have an RTR-1 or 1A that is excess to their needs and willing to sell OR have another idea of how I can employ a separate receive antenna when I have one antenna port? Thank you, in advance, for any repliesoff line replies work for me. 72/73, Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Single antenna port xcvr but want to employ separate receive antenna
Traditionally a T/R switch means a switch to be used the other way, to allow you to move a single antenna between your separate transmitter and receiver. Ironic that here we are in the 21st century and some of use an external box to do the reverse function! To switch between transmit and receive antennas on my rig, I use a small 12V relay keyed via my Ten-Tec Eagle's amp key output when I'm on 160. Every transceiver made in the past 50 years has an amp key line of some kind. On the Jupiter it's a phono jack labeled EXT T/R. Tim N3QE -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of James Rodenkirch Sent: Monday, January 13, 2014 8:36 AM To: Top Band Contesting Subject: Topband: Single antenna port xcvr but want to employ separate receive antenna Have my vertical working great and have a small Delta-loop low band receive antenna BUT the Ten Tec Jupiter doesn't have a separate receive antenna like a K2, for instance (I borrowed a K2 to try out but the buttons/controls are to small for me to operate as I have a severe case of peripheral neuropathy, courtesy of Agent Orange).So, I am up and running and will be in the CQ 160 contest at the end of January but have no means, currently, of switching rapidly 'tween the top loaded vertical and loop. A T/R switch won't do it for meso looking at a DX Engineering RTR-1A but sure don't like the price!!http://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-rtr-1a Anyone have an RTR-1 or 1A that is excess to their needs and willing to sell OR have another idea of how I can employ a separate receive antenna when I have one antenna port? Thank you, in advance, for any repliesoff line replies work for me. 72/73, Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Single antenna port xcvr but want to employ separate receive antenna
Ahhh...luv it when K.I.S.S. idea passes by, TimI can do that!! So simple, how come I didn't think that solution up!! Much appreciated! Jim R. K9JWV From: tsho...@wmata.com To: rodenkirch_...@msn.com; topband@contesting.com Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 13:48:11 + Subject: Re: Topband: Single antenna port xcvr but want to employ separatereceive antenna Traditionally a T/R switch means a switch to be used the other way, to allow you to move a single antenna between your separate transmitter and receiver. Ironic that here we are in the 21st century and some of use an external box to do the reverse function! To switch between transmit and receive antennas on my rig, I use a small 12V relay keyed via my Ten-Tec Eagle's amp key output when I'm on 160. Every transceiver made in the past 50 years has an amp key line of some kind. On the Jupiter it's a phono jack labeled EXT T/R. Tim N3QE -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of James Rodenkirch Sent: Monday, January 13, 2014 8:36 AM To: Top Band Contesting Subject: Topband: Single antenna port xcvr but want to employ separate receive antenna Have my vertical working great and have a small Delta-loop low band receive antenna BUT the Ten Tec Jupiter doesn't have a separate receive antenna like a K2, for instance (I borrowed a K2 to try out but the buttons/controls are to small for me to operate as I have a severe case of peripheral neuropathy, courtesy of Agent Orange).So, I am up and running and will be in the CQ 160 contest at the end of January but have no means, currently, of switching rapidly 'tween the top loaded vertical and loop. A T/R switch won't do it for meso looking at a DX Engineering RTR-1A but sure don't like the price!!http://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-rtr-1a Anyone have an RTR-1 or 1A that is excess to their needs and willing to sell OR have another idea of how I can employ a separate receive antenna when I have one antenna port? Thank you, in advance, for any repliesoff line replies work for me. 72/73, Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Single antenna port xcvr but want to employseparate receive antenna
Jim, I did the same thing years ago. I modified an old B W antenna switch, added a 12 volt relay triggered from the amp out jack. Even without the switch, 3 panel mount SO-239s, a relay and an enclosure would be a minimal investment. Doug - K1ZO - Original Message - From: Shoppa, Tim tsho...@wmata.com To: James Rodenkirch rodenkirch_...@msn.com; Top Band Contesting topband@contesting.com Sent: Monday, January 13, 2014 8:48 AM Subject: Re: Topband: Single antenna port xcvr but want to employseparate receive antenna Traditionally a T/R switch means a switch to be used the other way, to allow you to move a single antenna between your separate transmitter and receiver. Ironic that here we are in the 21st century and some of use an external box to do the reverse function! To switch between transmit and receive antennas on my rig, I use a small 12V relay keyed via my Ten-Tec Eagle's amp key output when I'm on 160. Every transceiver made in the past 50 years has an amp key line of some kind. On the Jupiter it's a phono jack labeled EXT T/R. Tim N3QE -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of James Rodenkirch Sent: Monday, January 13, 2014 8:36 AM To: Top Band Contesting Subject: Topband: Single antenna port xcvr but want to employ separate receive antenna Have my vertical working great and have a small Delta-loop low band receive antenna BUT the Ten Tec Jupiter doesn't have a separate receive antenna like a K2, for instance (I borrowed a K2 to try out but the buttons/controls are to small for me to operate as I have a severe case of peripheral neuropathy, courtesy of Agent Orange).So, I am up and running and will be in the CQ 160 contest at the end of January but have no means, currently, of switching rapidly 'tween the top loaded vertical and loop. A T/R switch won't do it for meso looking at a DX Engineering RTR-1A but sure don't like the price!!http://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-rtr-1a Anyone have an RTR-1 or 1A that is excess to their needs and willing to sell OR have another idea of how I can employ a separate receive antenna when I have one antenna port? Thank you, in advance, for any repliesoff line replies work for me. 72/73, Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Single antenna port xcvr but want to employ separate receive antenna
Hi James There are several solutions for a separated receive port. However let me comment on some details, 1- Small Delta loop. To be a receiver antenna the antenna gain need to be less than 20 db, why ? simple. Connect a power meter and a 50 ohms load on the Small Delta loop and measure how much power is captured from the TX antenna, I know several guy the burn the RX port on ICOM and YAESU radios using transmit antennas as receiver and injecting 100W into the RX port when transmitting with a legal limit amplifier. Port isolation and RF protection must be the first concern for any solution. If the antenna used for RX is resonant on the same TX band , you can really burn you RX front end. 2- Switch speed. The receive port need to switch fast than TX port. 20ms is not enough, most small frame relays switch around 20ms , To play safe it is necessary 10 ms. Another thing to consider. 3- The RX antenna only will add some SN if it adds some directivity, otherwise the attenuator at -20db will do the same job. 4- Isolation, on low bands if you have s9+10db noise and only 50 db isolation between the RX and TX port, the signal from the TX antenna will be add to you RX signal degrading the signal to noise and reducing side and back nulls form the RX antenna. I can list another several reason to the subject but the T/R switch is a very important part of the receiver system if you want to have some improvement on the signal noise. I sent one RTR-1 to T6LG to use with a good Preamp from KD9SV and a Delta Flag antenna using twisted pair. Without the RTR-1 the system would not perform well as it did. Just my two cents. Regards JC N4IS -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of James Rodenkirch Sent: Monday, January 13, 2014 8:36 AM To: Top Band Contesting Subject: Topband: Single antenna port xcvr but want to employ separate receive antenna Have my vertical working great and have a small Delta-loop low band receive antenna BUT the Ten Tec Jupiter doesn't have a separate receive antenna like a K2, for instance (I borrowed a K2 to try out but the buttons/controls are to small for me to operate as I have a severe case of peripheral neuropathy, courtesy of Agent Orange).So, I am up and running and will be in the CQ 160 contest at the end of January but have no means, currently, of switching rapidly 'tween the top loaded vertical and loop. A T/R switch won't do it for meso looking at a DX Engineering RTR-1A but sure don't like the price!!http://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-rtr-1a Anyone have an RTR-1 or 1A that is excess to their needs and willing to sell OR have another idea of how I can employ a separate receive antenna when I have one antenna port? Thank you, in advance, for any repliesoff line replies work for me. 72/73, Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Single antenna port xcvr but want to employ separatereceive antenna
Anyone have an RTR-1 or 1A that is excess to their needs and willing to sell OR have another idea of how I can employ a separate receive antenna when I have one antenna port? Thank you, in advance, for any repliesoff line replies work for me. 72/73, Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV Be REAL careful how you do this, Jim What works for one radio or system will not always work for another. This is highly radio (and even amplifier) dependent. I can say that based on some very good field experience in how things interface. (I'm actually looking at newer radios today to check their control systems.) Many radios only have a few milliseconds between the low signal and the RF output, some don't have any time between the TX signal and the RF output. You have to get any relay completely transferred and all of the bounce gone before RF appears. Normally the back to receive end of the sequence is not a worry. Many radios do not have the best timing for the external amplifier relay control ports. Some amplifiers do not like other stuff hanging on the TX control line. If you pull a relay low to go TX and you ever lose power to the relay, lose the relay, or lose the relay path, the system defaults with the transmitter running into the receiver antenna. You have to decide if that can damage RX antenna stuff. This requires a fast relay pull in time, and a slow release time.. The solution seems to be to release a relay to go from RX antenna to the TX antenna, but this system requires a very fast release time and sometimes a slower actuation time. This means we cannot use a backpulse diode because it will slow the relay too much, and it will go into TX mode after the RF appears. In all cases the relay has to be pretty fast compared to the radio's window between pulling the TX line low and outputting RF. If the relay is ever mid-way in transfer, still bouncing, or in the wrong position when RF appears, the least that happens is broadband transfer clicks. The most is usually damage to the RX antenna. If there is a reasonable way to do it, it is better to add a RX port in the radio and avoid all this. :) 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Single antenna port xcvr but want to employ separatereceive antenna
I am nervous as well, Tom...hi Hi I'm really thinking of employing a separate relay that I control with a simple switch, vice depending on the rig to switch correctly using a simple switch is antiquated and slow butfor certain I can control the switch over mo betta AND prevent damage to the low noise amplifier... From: w...@w8ji.com To: rodenkirch_...@msn.com; topband@contesting.com Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 11:37:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Topband: Single antenna port xcvr but want to employ separatereceive antenna Anyone have an RTR-1 or 1A that is excess to their needs and willing to sell OR have another idea of how I can employ a separate receive antenna when I have one antenna port? Thank you, in advance, for any repliesoff line replies work for me. 72/73, Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV Be REAL careful how you do this, Jim What works for one radio or system will not always work for another. This is highly radio (and even amplifier) dependent. I can say that based on some very good field experience in how things interface. (I'm actually looking at newer radios today to check their control systems.) Many radios only have a few milliseconds between the low signal and the RF output, some don't have any time between the TX signal and the RF output. You have to get any relay completely transferred and all of the bounce gone before RF appears. Normally the back to receive end of the sequence is not a worry. Many radios do not have the best timing for the external amplifier relay control ports. Some amplifiers do not like other stuff hanging on the TX control line. If you pull a relay low to go TX and you ever lose power to the relay, lose the relay, or lose the relay path, the system defaults with the transmitter running into the receiver antenna. You have to decide if that can damage RX antenna stuff. This requires a fast relay pull in time, and a slow release time.. The solution seems to be to release a relay to go from RX antenna to the TX antenna, but this system requires a very fast release time and sometimes a slower actuation time. This means we cannot use a backpulse diode because it will slow the relay too much, and it will go into TX mode after the RF appears. In all cases the relay has to be pretty fast compared to the radio's window between pulling the TX line low and outputting RF. If the relay is ever mid-way in transfer, still bouncing, or in the wrong position when RF appears, the least that happens is broadband transfer clicks. The most is usually damage to the RX antenna. If there is a reasonable way to do it, it is better to add a RX port in the radio and avoid all this. :) 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Single antenna port xcvr but want to employ separate receive antenna
I've used the loop and a KD9SV preamp with the vertical before, JC, and no overload problems ...I run QRP power during Top Band contests. Your cautionary notes are noted and appreciated! Jim R. K9JWV From: n...@comcast.net To: rodenkirch_...@msn.com; topband@contesting.com Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 11:33:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Topband: Single antenna port xcvr but want to employ separatereceive antenna Hi James There are several solutions for a separated receive port. However let me comment on some details, 1- Small Delta loop. To be a receiver antenna the antenna gain need to be less than 20 db, why ? simple. Connect a power meter and a 50 ohms load on the Small Delta loop and measure how much power is captured from the TX antenna, I know several guy the burn the RX port on ICOM and YAESU radios using transmit antennas as receiver and injecting 100W into the RX port when transmitting with a legal limit amplifier. Port isolation and RF protection must be the first concern for any solution. If the antenna used for RX is resonant on the same TX band , you can really burn you RX front end. 2- Switch speed. The receive port need to switch fast than TX port. 20ms is not enough, most small frame relays switch around 20ms , To play safe it is necessary 10 ms. Another thing to consider. 3- The RX antenna only will add some SN if it adds some directivity, otherwise the attenuator at -20db will do the same job. 4- Isolation, on low bands if you have s9+10db noise and only 50 db isolation between the RX and TX port, the signal from the TX antenna will be add to you RX signal degrading the signal to noise and reducing side and back nulls form the RX antenna. I can list another several reason to the subject but the T/R switch is a very important part of the receiver system if you want to have some improvement on the signal noise. I sent one RTR-1 to T6LG to use with a good Preamp from KD9SV and a Delta Flag antenna using twisted pair. Without the RTR-1 the system would not perform well as it did. Just my two cents. Regards JC N4IS -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of James Rodenkirch Sent: Monday, January 13, 2014 8:36 AM To: Top Band Contesting Subject: Topband: Single antenna port xcvr but want to employ separate receive antenna Have my vertical working great and have a small Delta-loop low band receive antenna BUT the Ten Tec Jupiter doesn't have a separate receive antenna like a K2, for instance (I borrowed a K2 to try out but the buttons/controls are to small for me to operate as I have a severe case of peripheral neuropathy, courtesy of Agent Orange).So, I am up and running and will be in the CQ 160 contest at the end of January but have no means, currently, of switching rapidly 'tween the top loaded vertical and loop. A T/R switch won't do it for meso looking at a DX Engineering RTR-1A but sure don't like the price!!http://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-rtr-1a Anyone have an RTR-1 or 1A that is excess to their needs and willing to sell OR have another idea of how I can employ a separate receive antenna when I have one antenna port? Thank you, in advance, for any repliesoff line replies work for me. 72/73, Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Single antenna port xcvr but want to employ separate receive antenna
Hi JC et al, just to add to the comments of JC: First of all it is a matter of switching timing. Always disconnect a separate RX antenna and short the rx entry to ground before the TX chain (with or without amp) starts to operate. Second: Get rid of any reradiation from the TX antenna which will otherwise destroy the the reception. Len SM7BIC -Ursprungligt meddelande- Från: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] För JC N4IS Skickat: den 13 januari 2014 17:33 Till: 'James Rodenkirch'; 'Top Band Contesting' Ämne: Re: Topband: Single antenna port xcvr but want to employ separate receive antenna Hi James There are several solutions for a separated receive port. However let me comment on some details, 1- Small Delta loop. To be a receiver antenna the antenna gain need to be less than 20 db, why ? simple. Connect a power meter and a 50 ohms load on the Small Delta loop and measure how much power is captured from the TX antenna, I know several guy the burn the RX port on ICOM and YAESU radios using transmit antennas as receiver and injecting 100W into the RX port when transmitting with a legal limit amplifier. Port isolation and RF protection must be the first concern for any solution. If the antenna used for RX is resonant on the same TX band , you can really burn you RX front end. 2- Switch speed. The receive port need to switch fast than TX port. 20ms is not enough, most small frame relays switch around 20ms , To play safe it is necessary 10 ms. Another thing to consider. 3- The RX antenna only will add some SN if it adds some directivity, otherwise the attenuator at -20db will do the same job. 4- Isolation, on low bands if you have s9+10db noise and only 50 db isolation between the RX and TX port, the signal from the TX antenna will be add to you RX signal degrading the signal to noise and reducing side and back nulls form the RX antenna. I can list another several reason to the subject but the T/R switch is a very important part of the receiver system if you want to have some improvement on the signal noise. I sent one RTR-1 to T6LG to use with a good Preamp from KD9SV and a Delta Flag antenna using twisted pair. Without the RTR-1 the system would not perform well as it did. Just my two cents. Regards JC N4IS -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of James Rodenkirch Sent: Monday, January 13, 2014 8:36 AM To: Top Band Contesting Subject: Topband: Single antenna port xcvr but want to employ separate receive antenna Have my vertical working great and have a small Delta-loop low band receive antenna BUT the Ten Tec Jupiter doesn't have a separate receive antenna like a K2, for instance (I borrowed a K2 to try out but the buttons/controls are to small for me to operate as I have a severe case of peripheral neuropathy, courtesy of Agent Orange).So, I am up and running and will be in the CQ 160 contest at the end of January but have no means, currently, of switching rapidly 'tween the top loaded vertical and loop. A T/R switch won't do it for meso looking at a DX Engineering RTR-1A but sure don't like the price!!http://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-rtr-1a Anyone have an RTR-1 or 1A that is excess to their needs and willing to sell OR have another idea of how I can employ a separate receive antenna when I have one antenna port? Thank you, in advance, for any repliesoff line replies work for me. 72/73, Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Single antenna port xcvr but want to employ separatereceive antenna
If you pull a relay low to go TX and you ever lose power to the relay, lose the relay, or lose the relay path, the system defaults with the transmitter running into the receiver antenna. You have to decide if that can damage RX antenna stuff. This requires a fast relay pull in time, and a slow release time.. I've done that several times, usually right after I clean up the cabling. I've had several QSO's with me using the RX antenna for transmit :-). In fact modeling puts the K9AY loop at 25 or so dB down compared to my transmit antenna and this is consistent with observed performance both transmit and receive! I usually run the rig at about 60W out into the amp which puts about 600W out. So 60W into the receive antenna, minus 25dB, is around a few hundred milliwatts ERP. The better equipped 160M stations within a few hundred miles can still hear me but it takes some effort to complete the Q. I know in the yearly NAQCC 160M QRP sprint, I work easily into the better stations in the upper Midwest and NE with 5W. I think I should sponsor a Stew Perry plaque, most QSO's made transmitting into the receive antenna, but that would be unfair because I would probably win it. Tim N3QE _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: Ends for older Phillystran
Hoping for some help to be able to use some older Philly. The factory tells me their grips won't work on parallel strand construction which is what I have, epoxy potted sockets are required. However, they only pot at the factory (liability etc etc) which means tossing 6 x 300' of 5/8 45klb ultimate strength. Newer Philly (post 1991) is constructed of 7 twisted strands, something like 7x19 wire rope (not exactly the same, but similar) and the PVC sheath transfers the load effectively with the Philly guy grips. Any reports of success with field potting, materials, how to do it, and where ends can be obtained (or a drawing, I will machine them) would be appreciated. I would have a load test done on each guy post potting. Grant KZ1W _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Ends for older Phillystran
Hi Grant! I worked at WDAE Radio in Tampa, FL back in the 80's and 90's. The engineer before me decided to try the new technology Philly-strand guy lines on the AM directional towers because they had constant problems with the original segmented steel guy wires/egg insulators constantly arcing over whenever there was a thunderstorm in the area. To attach the Philly-strand, they used traditional metal saddle clamps on this early ( somewhat experimental ) Philly-strand installation. It was a real neat looking job with 3 clamps 3 inches apart and all within 8 inches of the ends of the Philly Strand. Just like you see on steel guy lines. It was written up in Broadcast Engineering Magazine with lots of pictures as the wave of the future for AM broadcast guyed towers. In reality, it didn't work well because we were constantly having to re-attach the lines because the inner strands pulled short inside the outer sheath, leaving just the outer sheath holding the tower up! ( nude towers, no antennas on top ).It didn't take long before we realized that we had to use a lot more foldback length and a lot more clamps! We went with 36 foldbacks with six clamps evenly spaced to keep things from pulling apart! That worked and stayed together for the remaining 10 years I worked there. Yes, we had to insert 6 feet of steel line at the anchor points to make up for the lost length at each end of each guy lines. No guarantees, but that was my experience with the original Philly-strand. If you decide to keep it, be very careful and inspect it frequently! They don't make that original Philly-strand for a good reason. 73 Lloyd - N9LB -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com]On Behalf Of Grant Saviers Sent: Monday, January 13, 2014 1:15 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Ends for older Phillystran Hoping for some help to be able to use some older Philly. The factory tells me their grips won't work on parallel strand construction which is what I have, epoxy potted sockets are required. However, they only pot at the factory (liability etc etc) which means tossing 6 x 300' of 5/8 45klb ultimate strength. Newer Philly (post 1991) is constructed of 7 twisted strands, something like 7x19 wire rope (not exactly the same, but similar) and the PVC sheath transfers the load effectively with the Philly guy grips. Any reports of success with field potting, materials, how to do it, and where ends can be obtained (or a drawing, I will machine them) would be appreciated. I would have a load test done on each guy post potting. Grant KZ1W _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: 2014 Visalia Top Band Dinner
Announcing the Top Band Dinner at the 2014 Visalia DX Convention. The dinner wiil be held on Friday April 4, 2014. Craig Thompson, K9CT, will be the featured speaker: A Tale of Two Islands — Wake and Amsterdam. The Low Bands: Results, Comparisons and Contrasts. See this website for complete details and registration information: 2014 VISALIA TOP BAND DINNER _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: UPDATE: 2014 Visalia Top Band Dinner
The clickable link is apprently stripped out but the server. ** Announcing the Top Band Dinner at the 2014 Visalia DX Convention. The dinner wiil be held on Friday April 4, 2014. Craig Thompson, K9CT, will be the featured speaker: A Tale of Two Islands — Wake and Amsterdam. The Low Bands: Results, Comparisons and Contrasts. See this website for complete details and registration information: topbanddinnerdotjimdodotcom _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Ends for older Phillystran
Sorry, I meant to send this follow-up to the entire reflector. The newer version Philly-strand is excellent - it has become the standard for guying insulated AM broadcast towers, and is also used on some FM TV broadcast towers when guy lines have to pass thru the aperture of side-mount VHF and UHF antennas. 73 Lloyd - N9LB -Original Message- From: Lloyd Berg - N9LB [mailto:lloydb...@charter.net] Sent: Monday, January 13, 2014 5:15 PM To: Grant Saviers; topband@contesting.com Subject: RE: Topband: Ends for older Phillystran Hi Grant! I worked at WDAE Radio in Tampa, FL back in the 80's and 90's. The engineer before me decided to try the new technology Philly-strand guy lines on the AM directional towers because they had constant problems with the original segmented steel guy wires/egg insulators constantly arcing over whenever there was a thunderstorm in the area. To attach the Philly-strand, they used traditional metal saddle clamps on this early ( somewhat experimental ) Philly-strand installation. It was a real neat looking job with 3 clamps 3 inches apart and all within 8 inches of the ends of the Philly Strand. Just like you see on steel guy lines. It was written up in Broadcast Engineering Magazine with lots of pictures as the wave of the future for AM broadcast guyed towers. In reality, it didn't work well because we were constantly having to re-attach the lines because the inner strands pulled short inside the outer sheath, leaving just the outer sheath holding the tower up! ( nude towers, no antennas on top ).It didn't take long before we realized that we had to use a lot more foldback length and a lot more clamps! We went with 36 foldbacks with six clamps evenly spaced to keep things from pulling apart! That worked and stayed together for the remaining 10 years I worked there. Yes, we had to insert 6 feet of steel line at the anchor points to make up for the lost length at each end of each guy lines. No guarantees, but that was my experience with the original Philly-strand. If you decide to keep it, be very careful and inspect it frequently! They don't make that original Philly-strand for a good reason. 73 Lloyd - N9LB -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com]On Behalf Of Grant Saviers Sent: Monday, January 13, 2014 1:15 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Ends for older Phillystran Hoping for some help to be able to use some older Philly. The factory tells me their grips won't work on parallel strand construction which is what I have, epoxy potted sockets are required. However, they only pot at the factory (liability etc etc) which means tossing 6 x 300' of 5/8 45klb ultimate strength. Newer Philly (post 1991) is constructed of 7 twisted strands, something like 7x19 wire rope (not exactly the same, but similar) and the PVC sheath transfers the load effectively with the Philly guy grips. Any reports of success with field potting, materials, how to do it, and where ends can be obtained (or a drawing, I will machine them) would be appreciated. I would have a load test done on each guy post potting. Grant KZ1W _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
