Topband: Control cable black conductors
Hi and thanks for reading. I'm trying to splice a damaged (rodents) RX ant control cable. It has 7 insulated, stranded copper conductors all inside a PVC jacket. Problem is, when stripped of their insulation, 3 (black, brown and green), of the copper conductors have become coated in a black film? So to effect jointing and soldering, require cleaning. I've tried IPA 170 and several contact cleaners but none remove it. So far, only Emery Cloth will do the job but it's very difficult to clean each strand without breaking some and therefore weakening the joint. All the other 4 conductors are bright clean copper when stripped. Could anyone tell me why some insulated copper conductors turn black in this way and whether there's a better way of cleaning it off. Thanks in advance. Dave --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Control cable black conductors
Dave G4GED Wrote on Feb. 22nd. Hi and thanks for reading. I'm trying to splice a damaged (rodents) RX ant control cable. It has 7 insulated, stranded copper conductors all inside a PVC jacket. Problem is, when stripped of their insulation, 3 (black, brown and green), of the copper conductors have become coated in a black film? So to effect jointing and soldering, require cleaning. I've tried IPA 170 and several contact cleaners but none remove it. So far, only Emery Cloth will do the job but it's very difficult to clean each strand without breaking some and therefore weakening the joint. All the other 4 conductors are bright clean copper when stripped. Could anyone tell me why some insulated copper conductors turn black in this way and whether there's a better way of cleaning it off. Dave, maybe you could try dilute sulphuric acid or lime scale remover VIAKAL. The black residue on the copper is probably copper oxide. If you end up replacing the cable run then use tined copper conductors. 73 Andrew G8LUG _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Control cable black conductors
In message 530878d3.1010...@tiscali.co.uk, Dave G4GED radiodave.g4...@tiscali.co.uk writes Could anyone tell me why some insulated copper conductors turn black in this way and whether there's a better way of cleaning it off. Dave A very effective (and cheap/safe) method of cleaning the conductors is to buy a can of coke and dip the conductors in it. They will be bright and shiny in no time. Just don't drink the coke afterwards! -- 73 Ian, G3NRW _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Control cable black conductors
All Moisture has gotten to the copper. I've heard white vinegar may work. Its cheap...give it a try Carl AG6X -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Andy Ikin Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 3:10 AM To: Dave G4GED; Topband Reflector Subject: Re: Topband: Control cable black conductors Dave G4GED Wrote on Feb. 22nd. Hi and thanks for reading. I'm trying to splice a damaged (rodents) RX ant control cable. It has 7 insulated, stranded copper conductors all inside a PVC jacket. Problem is, when stripped of their insulation, 3 (black, brown and green), of the copper conductors have become coated in a black film? So to effect jointing and soldering, require cleaning. I've tried IPA 170 and several contact cleaners but none remove it. So far, only Emery Cloth will do the job but it's very difficult to clean each strand without breaking some and therefore weakening the joint. All the other 4 conductors are bright clean copper when stripped. Could anyone tell me why some insulated copper conductors turn black in this way and whether there's a better way of cleaning it off. Dave, maybe you could try dilute sulphuric acid or lime scale remover VIAKAL. The black residue on the copper is probably copper oxide. If you end up replacing the cable run then use tined copper conductors. 73 Andrew G8LUG _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments
Tom I assume the system has reactance since the MFJ is reading the X and I'm seeing the resulting SWR on the analyzer AND at the rig. The swr at my given freq as tuned with the variable cap is 1.3:1 or less...outside the enclosure the system had 1.0:1 swr readings and X=O over what appeared to be a broader bandwidth...even with 42 ohms at the feed point. I'm having fun in the contest and the antenna seems to be transmitting well and the amp hasn't blown up yet. I have a very short run of RG58 from the panel to my switching network so I'm keeping the amplifier below 500W. I'm definitely ready to get the RX loop up as listening on the needle is rough. Thanks Tom Carl AG6X -Original Message- From: Tom W8JI [mailto:w...@w8ji.com] Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 12:17 AM To: Carl Braun Cc: 160 Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments The j11 ohms is the best I can get period. I was able to get j0 when the cap was outside of the steel enclosure with a better bandwidth. Maybe I should throw my $400 enclosure and find a fibergla$$ enclosure. But as others have indicated I should probably just live with it. 1.) How do you know the system really has some reactance? 2.) What is the SWR, that is more accurate. 3.) The SWR is meaningless anyway for control settings when it is below maybe 1.3, and is typically meaningless for system losses when below 4.0:1 for short cables on 160 meters. A 40 j10 load (if it is that) is around 1.3:1, so it falls in the meaningless category Do you think a smaller (physically) vacuum cap would have less interaction with the steel enclosure. The one I have is only 3 round and 6 long. The air variable I'm using is 13 long and 7 round at mesh RF behavior with chassis and cabinets and wiring can be complicated. Some people who work around it all their life never actually get a feel for how simple systems work, let alone things that might get colex like high impedance lines and physically large components inside close spaced boxes. The interaction depends on the circuit impedance and the impedance of any components and wiring at various points in the system inside the box. You'll probably never get a meaningful answer because the problem is small, an answer requires knowing the actual impedances of everything, and at a minimum a feel for how the box and wiring *you* have interacts with the impedances. The important thing at this point is how the equipment in the shack behaves with what you have, because any actual losses are meaningless. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments
Charlie Thanks for the tip. I may play with a bit of inductance just to see how the system reacts. Not sure if I can post a pic here but I'm including a shot of the panel and the cap...hope you all can see it. The static bleed choke has been removed and I'm awaiting PL 259 connectors from my friends at RF parts. My crazy dog gets pretty loopy when we play with the Frisbee so I'm considering a trial cut in the asphalt to see how easy or ugly the process is. I hear the secret is all in the blade that's used. You Tube has some videos showing the procedure for cutting asphalt...we'll see. Thanks again Carl AG6X -Original Message- From: Charlie Cunningham [mailto:charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 8:18 PM To: Carl Braun; 'ZR'; '160' Subject: RE: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Hi, Carl Well, I think that what you are doing with your radials should be OK. I guess I'd rather get them under the asphalt if I could where they wouldn't get torn up or b a trip hazard. BTW I I was playing with your match on the Smith Chart and if you'll add about 1 uHy inductance in series with the connector (SO-239?) where you feedline leaves the enclosure, that will take you to 45 +j0, but I'd be concerned about incurring more losses in the inductor than any tiny mismatch loss from the -j11 term. I probably wouldn't do it. 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl Braun Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 10:56 PM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'ZR'; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments I'm working on the radial field weekly. Here is a theoretical question that results from my particular QTH. The Skyneedle is situated near a secondary blacktop driveway that is in the back of my property. I have to run radials over the blacktop to the rest of the property and, in order to keep things kind of neat, I'm using multi-conductor rotor cable as radials that travel over the blacktop. I have both 6 conductor and 3 conductor control cable that I'm using. I strip back the jacket at the radial ring...fan out the wires 3 apart and attach them to the 1 1/2 copper pipe I'm using as a radial ring around the base of the 'Needle'. Then the radial wires converge back into the cable jacket then travel across the 10' blacktop driveway and then they are removed from the cable jacket where they fan out into the dirt and are buried. Most of these radial wires are 60' to 100' once they leave the jacket. Any problem with what I'm doing here? I understand that it would be better if they fanned out directly from the base but I can have 50+ wires traveling over the blacktop. I was even considering getting an asphalt blade and cutting some channels into the blacktop...burying the jacketed cable into the asphalt and then sealing then in so I'm not running over them or tripping over them when playing Frisbee with the hound. My Guatemalan yard worker has been burying radial wires for the last month and thinks that I'm LOCO but he likes getting paid at the end of the day. As we speak I have a total of 34 radials with the shortest being 30' with the longest at 100'. Most of them are 60-70'. Four of them are tied into my 40m phased array radial field comprised of 90-100 radials under each antenna ranging from 40' to 80'. I can change the height of these verticals from 33' for 40m to 66' for 80m. 1/2 wl spacing on 40 and 1/4 wl spacing on 80. Carl AG6X -Original Message- From: Charlie Cunningham [mailto:charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 7:36 PM To: 'ZR'; Carl Braun; '160' Subject: RE: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Well, if I recall correctly, Carl, Carl said his feedline was about 70' of LMR-400, so even at 2 2:1 or 2.5:1 VSWR, the excess losses in 70' of LMR-400 at 1.8 MHz are almost 0, so if he can match it OK at the transmitter end of the line- no real point in making heroic efforts to achieve a perfect match! He'd gain more by working on his radial field, and he really should do that before doing any more tuning because improving the radials WILL affect the antenna impedance. 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of ZR Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 10:11 PM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Carl Braun'; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments The only benefit of getting it better would be a bit more 2:1 VSWR bandwidth to keep the amp happy but even then there is sometimes a gotcha when tuning an antenna. Carl KM1H Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Well, you can do all that, Carl But if your series variable capacitor is not maxed out (fully meshed) if you can increase the capacitance enough to get to j0, you would be at 45 +j0 and on a 1.1:1 VSWR circle.
Re: Topband: Control cable black conductors
All the other 4 conductors are bright clean copper when stripped. Could anyone tell me why some insulated copper conductors turn black in this way and whether there's a better way of cleaning it off. Water inside the insulation plus sulfur and/or irons that formed copper sulfide or covellite. I've been successful using phosphoric acid. It is sold as a clear liquid wire or mag wheel cleaner around here. You'll know it by how red and painful it turns your hands. _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Control cable black conductors
Is it phosphoric acid that gives Coca Cola its peculiar cleaning ability? I no longer can imbibe cola drinks due to a very annoying allergy, so I can't check a label to see if it is listed. I do know that Coke will clean oil deposited on your windshield when commercial windshield washing liquids just cause it to smear...so it has something in it that that may work quite well, and without turning your hands red! 73, Ken - K4XL On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 7:38 AM, Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com wrote: All the other 4 conductors are bright clean copper when stripped. Could anyone tell me why some insulated copper conductors turn black in this way and whether there's a better way of cleaning it off. Water inside the insulation plus sulfur and/or irons that formed copper sulfide or covellite. I've been successful using phosphoric acid. It is sold as a clear liquid wire or mag wheel cleaner around here. You'll know it by how red and painful it turns your hands. _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband -- Ken - K4XL BoatAnchor Manual Archive BAMA - http://bama.edebris.com Show me a politician who is poor, and I'll show you a poor politician. - Carlos Hank González _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Control cable black conductors
Lime away will clean it also .But you have to rinse the wire off to remove residuals. ~73 Don KD8NNU FH#4107 -.- -.. ---.. –. –. ..- On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 5:15 AM, Dave G4GED wrote: Hi and thanks for reading. I'm trying to splice a damaged (rodents) RX ant control cable. It has 7 insulated, stranded copper conductors all inside a PVC jacket. Problem is, when stripped of their insulation, 3 (black, brown and green), of the copper conductors have become coated in a black film? So to effect jointing and soldering, require cleaning. I've tried IPA 170 and several contact cleaners but none remove it. So far, only Emery Cloth will do the job but it's very difficult to clean each strand without breaking some and therefore weakening the joint. All the other 4 conductors are bright clean copper when stripped. Could anyone tell me why some insulated copper conductors turn black in this way and whether there's a better way of cleaning it off. Thanks in advance. Dave --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: Not so ood in the contest last night
I only made 35 contacts last night from my QTH.I did however get 5 new states and if those contacts use LOTW I will only need 5 more contacts for my WAS on 160m phone. My antennas are an inverted L and big loop so I dont hear real well. But thats my realilty. The worst part was I did not hear the South Lyon Group who was running W1AW/8 and they are only 10 ish miles away from me. Maybe tonight :-) I am following the converstations on the receive loops and hopefully will have time and money to invest in one for a summer project and also figure out how to get my inverted L higher before my flat section. Have fun everyone I know I do. ~73 Don KD8NNU FH#4107 -.- -.. ---.. –. –. ..- _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments
Hi, Carl Well, paying with your load on a Smith Chart, tuning out the -j11 only improved the VSWR from 1.3:1 to 1.1 - not really worth doing! Also, you would need a fairly large inductor to obtain 1 uHy of inductance with low loss, and I expect that you would incur more loss in the inductor (that would subtract directly from your transmitted power) than you would gain in improved mismatch loss by improving the VSWR from 1.3 t 1.1!! Keep in mind also that the inductor would also have stray capacitance to the enclosure walls that will lower its Q ! I wouldn't do it! 1.3:1 is great!! Enjoy!! You will help your overall performance much more by building a terminated receiving loop - a KAZ, flag or pennant configuration to help your HEARING!! MY KAZ loop did wonders for me!! GL and have fun! 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Carl Braun [mailto:carl.br...@lairdtech.com] Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 7:23 AM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'ZR'; '160' Subject: RE: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Charlie Thanks for the tip. I may play with a bit of inductance just to see how the system reacts. Not sure if I can post a pic here but I'm including a shot of the panel and the cap...hope you all can see it. The static bleed choke has been removed and I'm awaiting PL 259 connectors from my friends at RF parts. My crazy dog gets pretty loopy when we play with the Frisbee so I'm considering a trial cut in the asphalt to see how easy or ugly the process is. I hear the secret is all in the blade that's used. You Tube has some videos showing the procedure for cutting asphalt...we'll see. Thanks again Carl AG6X -Original Message- From: Charlie Cunningham [mailto:charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 8:18 PM To: Carl Braun; 'ZR'; '160' Subject: RE: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Hi, Carl Well, I think that what you are doing with your radials should be OK. I guess I'd rather get them under the asphalt if I could where they wouldn't get torn up or b a trip hazard. BTW I I was playing with your match on the Smith Chart and if you'll add about 1 uHy inductance in series with the connector (SO-239?) where you feedline leaves the enclosure, that will take you to 45 +j0, but I'd be concerned about incurring more losses in the inductor than any tiny mismatch loss from the -j11 term. I probably wouldn't do it. 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl Braun Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 10:56 PM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'ZR'; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments I'm working on the radial field weekly. Here is a theoretical question that results from my particular QTH. The Skyneedle is situated near a secondary blacktop driveway that is in the back of my property. I have to run radials over the blacktop to the rest of the property and, in order to keep things kind of neat, I'm using multi-conductor rotor cable as radials that travel over the blacktop. I have both 6 conductor and 3 conductor control cable that I'm using. I strip back the jacket at the radial ring...fan out the wires 3 apart and attach them to the 1 1/2 copper pipe I'm using as a radial ring around the base of the 'Needle'. Then the radial wires converge back into the cable jacket then travel across the 10' blacktop driveway and then they are removed from the cable jacket where they fan out into the dirt and are buried. Most of these radial wires are 60' to 100' once they leave the jacket. Any problem with what I'm doing here? I understand that it would be better if they fanned out directly from the base but I can have 50+ wires traveling over the blacktop. I was even considering getting an asphalt blade and cutting some channels into the blacktop...burying the jacketed cable into the asphalt and then sealing then in so I'm not running over them or tripping over them when playing Frisbee with the hound. My Guatemalan yard worker has been burying radial wires for the last month and thinks that I'm LOCO but he likes getting paid at the end of the day. As we speak I have a total of 34 radials with the shortest being 30' with the longest at 100'. Most of them are 60-70'. Four of them are tied into my 40m phased array radial field comprised of 90-100 radials under each antenna ranging from 40' to 80'. I can change the height of these verticals from 33' for 40m to 66' for 80m. 1/2 wl spacing on 40 and 1/4 wl spacing on 80. Carl AG6X -Original Message- From: Charlie Cunningham [mailto:charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 7:36 PM To: 'ZR'; Carl Braun; '160' Subject: RE: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Well, if I recall correctly, Carl, Carl said his feedline was about 70' of LMR-400, so even at 2 2:1 or 2.5:1 VSWR, the excess losses in 70' of LMR-400 at 1.8 MHz are
Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments
Thanks for the tip. I may play with a bit of inductance just to see how the system reacts. This is way more problematic than it needs to be. First, no one even knows if the reactance is real or a false reading caused by a bit error from calibration or noise. Second, no one knows the sign of the reactance if it is there. It might be already be inductive. Third, if the capacitor is not maxed out or at minimum and still has range left, which yours does, the capacitor will adjust out any reactance without adding anything else. There are certain bridge voltages that with even one or two bits error, which is 2/256 bits or less than 1% error in voltages, where 10 ohms might be calculated. The algoryth tries to take that error out by watching SWR near bridge balance instead of bridge arm voltages, but I have no idea how the unit is calibrated or if the antenna system has noise causing a bit error. All of this is pretty much meaningless. Even if it is a 1.3 :1 SWR, it is not going to be a problem. Also, if the real part is near 40 ohms and you have a high Q antenna system and losses, you might find lowest SWR is not X=0 because of interactions between resistance and reactance as things are tuned. I would not even guess at a cure for something with a bunch of unknowns that might not even be a problem. I think this is a bigger worry and more complex than it should be. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments
Im not concerned by what is measured at the matching unit or a miniscule cable loss; just what is transformed back to the amp and its ability to load at full power without arcing, running out of or having too much fixed padder C during QSY's. Contests do not stay just in the narrow CW 50 KHz window and not having to use an external tuner is a big plus. Ive always modified my amps to work with my antennas on 160 and 80/75. Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com To: 'ZR' z...@jeremy.mv.com; 'Carl Braun' carl.br...@lairdtech.com; '160' topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 10:35 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Well, if I recall correctly, Carl, Carl said his feedline was about 70' of LMR-400, so even at 2 2:1 or 2.5:1 VSWR, the excess losses in 70' of LMR-400 at 1.8 MHz are almost 0, so if he can match it OK at the transmitter end of the line- no real point in making heroic efforts to achieve a perfect match! He'd gain more by working on his radial field, and he really should do that before doing any more tuning because improving the radials WILL affect the antenna impedance. 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of ZR Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 10:11 PM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Carl Braun'; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments The only benefit of getting it better would be a bit more 2:1 VSWR bandwidth to keep the amp happy but even then there is sometimes a gotcha when tuning an antenna. Carl KM1H Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Well, you can do all that, Carl But if your series variable capacitor is not maxed out (fully meshed) if you can increase the capacitance enough to get to j0, you would be at 45 +j0 and on a 1.1:1 VSWR circle. No point int trying to do better than that!! Otherwise, just increase the series capacitance to bring that -j11 as close to j0 as possible and take that! You'd be so near perfect that there would be no real point in going further! Your time and efforts might be better spent working on your radial field! 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl Braun Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 8:46 PM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Tom W8JI'; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Thanks to all who replied Tom W8JI, your comments on the metallic panel and the static bleed choke make sense. I was so pleased with the FLAT SWR reading with the variable cap outside the panel but I guess I can live with the slight SWR. (Thanks Charlie K4OTV). I have a Nye Viking monster tuner but I hate to use it as my Henry amp seems to load strangely when I have it inline so I think I'll just live without it. Can I add some coax (coiled) to bring the X down on the -j11 reading? I did this with the old Telrex and brought the X right down and out of the pic. I'm sure Ill need much more than I would on 14MHz but I think I'd like to try anyway. I'm still going to drop the tower down and add two more gamma wires to create a cage and I still have the option of pulling the gamma wire(s) away from the tower another 8-10 inches to add a few more ohms to the equation. I'm having fun with the experiment. Right now I'm hearing the beginnings of the SSB contest with N7GP, WD5COV, W6YI with the big signals so far. XE is the only DX I've heard. Lots of stateside calling stateside Carl AG6X -Original Message- From: Charlie Cunningham [mailto:charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 5:21 PM To: 'Tom W8JI'; Carl Braun; '160' Subject: RE: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Well, Carl I plotted your 45-j11 load on a Smith Chart (normalized to 50 ohms) and it's very near the origin on a 1.3:1 VSWR circle. Since you have a relatively short feedline of LMR-400, You should be able to just tune it out at the transmitter end of the line, and the LMR-400 line will be operating at such a very low SWR (around 1.3:1 that the excess loss from a 1.3:1 VSWR at 160 is completely trivial and negligible! It may not be completely intellectually satisfying to have -j11 of reactance at the load, but it should match easily and the antenna should work very well! Enjoy! Sounds like that Array solutions static bleed is not as high in impedance as we might wish! A large resistance might give you more satisfactory results! GL! Enjoy! 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 8:02 PM To: Carl Braun; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Since then I've moved the variable capacitor inside the panel and mounted it to a ¾ think Plexiglas
Re: Topband: Control cable black conductors
Phosphoric acid is still listed. 73, Larry W6NWS -Original Message- From: Kenneth Grimm Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 7:51 AM To: Tom W8JI Cc: Dave G4GED ; topband Subject: Re: Topband: Control cable black conductors Is it phosphoric acid that gives Coca Cola its peculiar cleaning ability? I no longer can imbibe cola drinks due to a very annoying allergy, so I can't check a label to see if it is listed. I do know that Coke will clean oil deposited on your windshield when commercial windshield washing liquids just cause it to smear...so it has something in it that that may work quite well, and without turning your hands red! 73, Ken - K4XL On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 7:38 AM, Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com wrote: All the other 4 conductors are bright clean copper when stripped. Could anyone tell me why some insulated copper conductors turn black in this way and whether there's a better way of cleaning it off. Water inside the insulation plus sulfur and/or irons that formed copper sulfide or covellite. I've been successful using phosphoric acid. It is sold as a clear liquid wire or mag wheel cleaner around here. You'll know it by how red and painful it turns your hands. _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband -- Ken - K4XL BoatAnchor Manual Archive BAMA - http://bama.edebris.com Show me a politician who is poor, and I'll show you a poor politician. - Carlos Hank González _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments
I completely agree with Tom. Carl! I'd leave it alone(for the reasons that I stated previously)! I expect that you would lose more than you would gain by adding an inductor!! If it ain't broke don't fix it!! You might want to put some effort into a good terminated receiving loop! 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:09 AM To: Carl Braun; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Thanks for the tip. I may play with a bit of inductance just to see how the system reacts. This is way more problematic than it needs to be. First, no one even knows if the reactance is real or a false reading caused by a bit error from calibration or noise. Second, no one knows the sign of the reactance if it is there. It might be already be inductive. Third, if the capacitor is not maxed out or at minimum and still has range left, which yours does, the capacitor will adjust out any reactance without adding anything else. There are certain bridge voltages that with even one or two bits error, which is 2/256 bits or less than 1% error in voltages, where 10 ohms might be calculated. The algoryth tries to take that error out by watching SWR near bridge balance instead of bridge arm voltages, but I have no idea how the unit is calibrated or if the antenna system has noise causing a bit error. All of this is pretty much meaningless. Even if it is a 1.3 :1 SWR, it is not going to be a problem. Also, if the real part is near 40 ohms and you have a high Q antenna system and losses, you might find lowest SWR is not X=0 because of interactions between resistance and reactance as things are tuned. I would not even guess at a cure for something with a bunch of unknowns that might not even be a problem. I think this is a bigger worry and more complex than it should be. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments
I don't expect that ANY of those are valid concerns at 1.3:1 VSWR!! -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:14 AM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Carl Braun'; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Im not concerned by what is measured at the matching unit or a miniscule cable loss; just what is transformed back to the amp and its ability to load at full power without arcing, running out of or having too much fixed padder C during QSY's. Contests do not stay just in the narrow CW 50 KHz window and not having to use an external tuner is a big plus. Ive always modified my amps to work with my antennas on 160 and 80/75. Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com To: 'ZR' z...@jeremy.mv.com; 'Carl Braun' carl.br...@lairdtech.com; '160' topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 10:35 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Well, if I recall correctly, Carl, Carl said his feedline was about 70' of LMR-400, so even at 2 2:1 or 2.5:1 VSWR, the excess losses in 70' of LMR-400 at 1.8 MHz are almost 0, so if he can match it OK at the transmitter end of the line- no real point in making heroic efforts to achieve a perfect match! He'd gain more by working on his radial field, and he really should do that before doing any more tuning because improving the radials WILL affect the antenna impedance. 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of ZR Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 10:11 PM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Carl Braun'; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments The only benefit of getting it better would be a bit more 2:1 VSWR bandwidth to keep the amp happy but even then there is sometimes a gotcha when tuning an antenna. Carl KM1H Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Well, you can do all that, Carl But if your series variable capacitor is not maxed out (fully meshed) if you can increase the capacitance enough to get to j0, you would be at 45 +j0 and on a 1.1:1 VSWR circle. No point int trying to do better than that!! Otherwise, just increase the series capacitance to bring that -j11 as close to j0 as possible and take that! You'd be so near perfect that there would be no real point in going further! Your time and efforts might be better spent working on your radial field! 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl Braun Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 8:46 PM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Tom W8JI'; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Thanks to all who replied Tom W8JI, your comments on the metallic panel and the static bleed choke make sense. I was so pleased with the FLAT SWR reading with the variable cap outside the panel but I guess I can live with the slight SWR. (Thanks Charlie K4OTV). I have a Nye Viking monster tuner but I hate to use it as my Henry amp seems to load strangely when I have it inline so I think I'll just live without it. Can I add some coax (coiled) to bring the X down on the -j11 reading? I did this with the old Telrex and brought the X right down and out of the pic. I'm sure Ill need much more than I would on 14MHz but I think I'd like to try anyway. I'm still going to drop the tower down and add two more gamma wires to create a cage and I still have the option of pulling the gamma wire(s) away from the tower another 8-10 inches to add a few more ohms to the equation. I'm having fun with the experiment. Right now I'm hearing the beginnings of the SSB contest with N7GP, WD5COV, W6YI with the big signals so far. XE is the only DX I've heard. Lots of stateside calling stateside Carl AG6X -Original Message- From: Charlie Cunningham [mailto:charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 5:21 PM To: 'Tom W8JI'; Carl Braun; '160' Subject: RE: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Well, Carl I plotted your 45-j11 load on a Smith Chart (normalized to 50 ohms) and it's very near the origin on a 1.3:1 VSWR circle. Since you have a relatively short feedline of LMR-400, You should be able to just tune it out at the transmitter end of the line, and the LMR-400 line will be operating at such a very low SWR (around 1.3:1 that the excess loss from a 1.3:1 VSWR at 160 is completely trivial and negligible! It may not be completely intellectually satisfying to have -j11 of reactance at the load, but it should match easily and the antenna should work very well! Enjoy! Sounds like that Array solutions static bleed is not as high in impedance as we might wish! A large resistance might give you more satisfactory results! GL! Enjoy! 73, Charlie, K4OTV
Re: Topband: Control cable black conductors
And people DRINK this stuff!!?? :) -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Larry Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:17 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Control cable black conductors Phosphoric acid is still listed. 73, Larry W6NWS -Original Message- From: Kenneth Grimm Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 7:51 AM To: Tom W8JI Cc: Dave G4GED ; topband Subject: Re: Topband: Control cable black conductors Is it phosphoric acid that gives Coca Cola its peculiar cleaning ability? I no longer can imbibe cola drinks due to a very annoying allergy, so I can't check a label to see if it is listed. I do know that Coke will clean oil deposited on your windshield when commercial windshield washing liquids just cause it to smear...so it has something in it that that may work quite well, and without turning your hands red! 73, Ken - K4XL On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 7:38 AM, Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com wrote: All the other 4 conductors are bright clean copper when stripped. Could anyone tell me why some insulated copper conductors turn black in this way and whether there's a better way of cleaning it off. Water inside the insulation plus sulfur and/or irons that formed copper sulfide or covellite. I've been successful using phosphoric acid. It is sold as a clear liquid wire or mag wheel cleaner around here. You'll know it by how red and painful it turns your hands. _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband -- Ken - K4XL BoatAnchor Manual Archive BAMA - http://bama.edebris.com Show me a politician who is poor, and I'll show you a poor politician. - Carlos Hank González _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments
That 1.3 is only at ONE frequency Charlie, he is not crystal controlled. What is the 2:1 bandwidth at the amp? Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com To: 'Carl' k...@jeremy.mv.com; 'Carl Braun' carl.br...@lairdtech.com; '160' topband@contesting.com Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:23 AM Subject: RE: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments I don't expect that ANY of those are valid concerns at 1.3:1 VSWR!! -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:14 AM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Carl Braun'; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Im not concerned by what is measured at the matching unit or a miniscule cable loss; just what is transformed back to the amp and its ability to load at full power without arcing, running out of or having too much fixed padder C during QSY's. Contests do not stay just in the narrow CW 50 KHz window and not having to use an external tuner is a big plus. Ive always modified my amps to work with my antennas on 160 and 80/75. Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com To: 'ZR' z...@jeremy.mv.com; 'Carl Braun' carl.br...@lairdtech.com; '160' topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 10:35 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Well, if I recall correctly, Carl, Carl said his feedline was about 70' of LMR-400, so even at 2 2:1 or 2.5:1 VSWR, the excess losses in 70' of LMR-400 at 1.8 MHz are almost 0, so if he can match it OK at the transmitter end of the line- no real point in making heroic efforts to achieve a perfect match! He'd gain more by working on his radial field, and he really should do that before doing any more tuning because improving the radials WILL affect the antenna impedance. 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of ZR Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 10:11 PM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Carl Braun'; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments The only benefit of getting it better would be a bit more 2:1 VSWR bandwidth to keep the amp happy but even then there is sometimes a gotcha when tuning an antenna. Carl KM1H Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Well, you can do all that, Carl But if your series variable capacitor is not maxed out (fully meshed) if you can increase the capacitance enough to get to j0, you would be at 45 +j0 and on a 1.1:1 VSWR circle. No point int trying to do better than that!! Otherwise, just increase the series capacitance to bring that -j11 as close to j0 as possible and take that! You'd be so near perfect that there would be no real point in going further! Your time and efforts might be better spent working on your radial field! 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl Braun Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 8:46 PM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Tom W8JI'; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Thanks to all who replied Tom W8JI, your comments on the metallic panel and the static bleed choke make sense. I was so pleased with the FLAT SWR reading with the variable cap outside the panel but I guess I can live with the slight SWR. (Thanks Charlie K4OTV). I have a Nye Viking monster tuner but I hate to use it as my Henry amp seems to load strangely when I have it inline so I think I'll just live without it. Can I add some coax (coiled) to bring the X down on the -j11 reading? I did this with the old Telrex and brought the X right down and out of the pic. I'm sure Ill need much more than I would on 14MHz but I think I'd like to try anyway. I'm still going to drop the tower down and add two more gamma wires to create a cage and I still have the option of pulling the gamma wire(s) away from the tower another 8-10 inches to add a few more ohms to the equation. I'm having fun with the experiment. Right now I'm hearing the beginnings of the SSB contest with N7GP, WD5COV, W6YI with the big signals so far. XE is the only DX I've heard. Lots of stateside calling stateside Carl AG6X -Original Message- From: Charlie Cunningham [mailto:charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 5:21 PM To: 'Tom W8JI'; Carl Braun; '160' Subject: RE: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Well, Carl I plotted your 45-j11 load on a Smith Chart (normalized to 50 ohms) and it's very near the origin on a 1.3:1 VSWR circle. Since you have a relatively short feedline of LMR-400, You should be able to just tune it out at the transmitter end of the line, and the LMR-400 line will be operating at such a very low SWR (around 1.3:1 that the excess loss from a
Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments
Well, Carl the looses in 70' or even 200' of LMR-400 are so low at 1.8 MHz, even at 2.0:1 or 3.0 :1, if he can match it at the transmitter end of the line, it really doesn't matter! Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:46 AM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Carl Braun'; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments That 1.3 is only at ONE frequency Charlie, he is not crystal controlled. What is the 2:1 bandwidth at the amp? Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com To: 'Carl' k...@jeremy.mv.com; 'Carl Braun' carl.br...@lairdtech.com; '160' topband@contesting.com Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:23 AM Subject: RE: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments I don't expect that ANY of those are valid concerns at 1.3:1 VSWR!! -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:14 AM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Carl Braun'; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Im not concerned by what is measured at the matching unit or a miniscule cable loss; just what is transformed back to the amp and its ability to load at full power without arcing, running out of or having too much fixed padder C during QSY's. Contests do not stay just in the narrow CW 50 KHz window and not having to use an external tuner is a big plus. Ive always modified my amps to work with my antennas on 160 and 80/75. Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com To: 'ZR' z...@jeremy.mv.com; 'Carl Braun' carl.br...@lairdtech.com; '160' topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 10:35 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Well, if I recall correctly, Carl, Carl said his feedline was about 70' of LMR-400, so even at 2 2:1 or 2.5:1 VSWR, the excess losses in 70' of LMR-400 at 1.8 MHz are almost 0, so if he can match it OK at the transmitter end of the line- no real point in making heroic efforts to achieve a perfect match! He'd gain more by working on his radial field, and he really should do that before doing any more tuning because improving the radials WILL affect the antenna impedance. 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of ZR Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 10:11 PM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Carl Braun'; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments The only benefit of getting it better would be a bit more 2:1 VSWR bandwidth to keep the amp happy but even then there is sometimes a gotcha when tuning an antenna. Carl KM1H Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Well, you can do all that, Carl But if your series variable capacitor is not maxed out (fully meshed) if you can increase the capacitance enough to get to j0, you would be at 45 +j0 and on a 1.1:1 VSWR circle. No point int trying to do better than that!! Otherwise, just increase the series capacitance to bring that -j11 as close to j0 as possible and take that! You'd be so near perfect that there would be no real point in going further! Your time and efforts might be better spent working on your radial field! 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl Braun Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 8:46 PM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Tom W8JI'; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Thanks to all who replied Tom W8JI, your comments on the metallic panel and the static bleed choke make sense. I was so pleased with the FLAT SWR reading with the variable cap outside the panel but I guess I can live with the slight SWR. (Thanks Charlie K4OTV). I have a Nye Viking monster tuner but I hate to use it as my Henry amp seems to load strangely when I have it inline so I think I'll just live without it. Can I add some coax (coiled) to bring the X down on the -j11 reading? I did this with the old Telrex and brought the X right down and out of the pic. I'm sure Ill need much more than I would on 14MHz but I think I'd like to try anyway. I'm still going to drop the tower down and add two more gamma wires to create a cage and I still have the option of pulling the gamma wire(s) away from the tower another 8-10 inches to add a few more ohms to the equation. I'm having fun with the experiment. Right now I'm hearing the beginnings of the SSB contest with N7GP, WD5COV, W6YI with the big signals so far. XE is the only DX I've heard. Lots of stateside calling stateside Carl AG6X -Original Message- From: Charlie Cunningham [mailto:charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 5:21 PM To: 'Tom W8JI'; Carl
Re: Topband: Control cable black conductors
Here in the USA, I keep a bottle of TARN-X on hand. It works well on copper and silver and is also listed for gold and platinum. Available in local markets in the kitchen cleaning supplies. Rinse after cleaning to remove residual. Arne N7KA _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments
Charlie youre continually missing the point; ignore cable loss period. The only issue is what impedance does the amp see from lets say 1800 to 1900 KHz? AND can the amp load into it without a problem at full power? This is a system issue, not just what is measured at the antenna and needs to be addressed that way. Put all that info into your program and post the results. Saying that a 1.3 VSWR at reasonance at the antenna is sufficient is too simplistic. Compute the VSWR at the amp with whatever length of coax is actually used over the lower 100 KHz with a range of at resonance VSWR's. Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com To: 'Carl' k...@jeremy.mv.com; 'Carl Braun' carl.br...@lairdtech.com; '160' topband@contesting.com Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:57 AM Subject: RE: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Well, Carl the looses in 70' or even 200' of LMR-400 are so low at 1.8 MHz, even at 2.0:1 or 3.0 :1, if he can match it at the transmitter end of the line, it really doesn't matter! Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:46 AM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Carl Braun'; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments That 1.3 is only at ONE frequency Charlie, he is not crystal controlled. What is the 2:1 bandwidth at the amp? Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com To: 'Carl' k...@jeremy.mv.com; 'Carl Braun' carl.br...@lairdtech.com; '160' topband@contesting.com Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:23 AM Subject: RE: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments I don't expect that ANY of those are valid concerns at 1.3:1 VSWR!! -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:14 AM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Carl Braun'; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Im not concerned by what is measured at the matching unit or a miniscule cable loss; just what is transformed back to the amp and its ability to load at full power without arcing, running out of or having too much fixed padder C during QSY's. Contests do not stay just in the narrow CW 50 KHz window and not having to use an external tuner is a big plus. Ive always modified my amps to work with my antennas on 160 and 80/75. Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com To: 'ZR' z...@jeremy.mv.com; 'Carl Braun' carl.br...@lairdtech.com; '160' topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 10:35 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Well, if I recall correctly, Carl, Carl said his feedline was about 70' of LMR-400, so even at 2 2:1 or 2.5:1 VSWR, the excess losses in 70' of LMR-400 at 1.8 MHz are almost 0, so if he can match it OK at the transmitter end of the line- no real point in making heroic efforts to achieve a perfect match! He'd gain more by working on his radial field, and he really should do that before doing any more tuning because improving the radials WILL affect the antenna impedance. 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of ZR Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 10:11 PM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Carl Braun'; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments The only benefit of getting it better would be a bit more 2:1 VSWR bandwidth to keep the amp happy but even then there is sometimes a gotcha when tuning an antenna. Carl KM1H Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Well, you can do all that, Carl But if your series variable capacitor is not maxed out (fully meshed) if you can increase the capacitance enough to get to j0, you would be at 45 +j0 and on a 1.1:1 VSWR circle. No point int trying to do better than that!! Otherwise, just increase the series capacitance to bring that -j11 as close to j0 as possible and take that! You'd be so near perfect that there would be no real point in going further! Your time and efforts might be better spent working on your radial field! 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl Braun Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 8:46 PM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Tom W8JI'; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Thanks to all who replied Tom W8JI, your comments on the metallic panel and the static bleed choke make sense. I was so pleased with the FLAT SWR reading with the variable cap outside the panel but I guess I can live with the slight SWR. (Thanks Charlie K4OTV). I have a Nye Viking monster tuner but I hate to use it as my Henry amp seems to
Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments
Well, I agree with all that, Carl. But Carl Braun, was reading dead-flat 1:1 at the transmitter end of his cable. I believe he is done!! The antenna Q is what it is! As for improving his 2:1 VSWR bandwidth he could reduce his radial field and increase his ground losses to improve his 2:1 BW - but I believe that to be self-defeating!! I'm not missing your point - I just don't see what you'd change to improve on a flat line! Carl is well past the point of diminishing returns! The math doesn't lie! Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 10:41 AM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Carl Braun'; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Charlie youre continually missing the point; ignore cable loss period. The only issue is what impedance does the amp see from lets say 1800 to 1900 KHz? AND can the amp load into it without a problem at full power? This is a system issue, not just what is measured at the antenna and needs to be addressed that way. Put all that info into your program and post the results. Saying that a 1.3 VSWR at reasonance at the antenna is sufficient is too simplistic. Compute the VSWR at the amp with whatever length of coax is actually used over the lower 100 KHz with a range of at resonance VSWR's. Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com To: 'Carl' k...@jeremy.mv.com; 'Carl Braun' carl.br...@lairdtech.com; '160' topband@contesting.com Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:57 AM Subject: RE: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Well, Carl the looses in 70' or even 200' of LMR-400 are so low at 1.8 MHz, even at 2.0:1 or 3.0 :1, if he can match it at the transmitter end of the line, it really doesn't matter! Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:46 AM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Carl Braun'; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments That 1.3 is only at ONE frequency Charlie, he is not crystal controlled. What is the 2:1 bandwidth at the amp? Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com To: 'Carl' k...@jeremy.mv.com; 'Carl Braun' carl.br...@lairdtech.com; '160' topband@contesting.com Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:23 AM Subject: RE: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments I don't expect that ANY of those are valid concerns at 1.3:1 VSWR!! -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:14 AM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Carl Braun'; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Im not concerned by what is measured at the matching unit or a miniscule cable loss; just what is transformed back to the amp and its ability to load at full power without arcing, running out of or having too much fixed padder C during QSY's. Contests do not stay just in the narrow CW 50 KHz window and not having to use an external tuner is a big plus. Ive always modified my amps to work with my antennas on 160 and 80/75. Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com To: 'ZR' z...@jeremy.mv.com; 'Carl Braun' carl.br...@lairdtech.com; '160' topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 10:35 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Well, if I recall correctly, Carl, Carl said his feedline was about 70' of LMR-400, so even at 2 2:1 or 2.5:1 VSWR, the excess losses in 70' of LMR-400 at 1.8 MHz are almost 0, so if he can match it OK at the transmitter end of the line- no real point in making heroic efforts to achieve a perfect match! He'd gain more by working on his radial field, and he really should do that before doing any more tuning because improving the radials WILL affect the antenna impedance. 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of ZR Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 10:11 PM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Carl Braun'; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments The only benefit of getting it better would be a bit more 2:1 VSWR bandwidth to keep the amp happy but even then there is sometimes a gotcha when tuning an antenna. Carl KM1H Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Well, you can do all that, Carl But if your series variable capacitor is not maxed out (fully meshed) if you can increase the capacitance enough to get to j0, you would be at 45 +j0 and on a 1.1:1 VSWR circle. No point int trying to do better than that!! Otherwise, just increase the series capacitance to bring that -j11 as close to j0 as possible and take that! You'd
Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments
It may not be obvious but often you can get better bandwidth by NOT tuning for 1:1 at the desired frequency! Those familiar with the Smith chart probably already know this. A narrow band antenna will produce a curve between a U and a V on the Smith chart. If you tune for a 1:1 SWR, you bring the nose of the curve to the center of the chart. This often leaves the tails outside the desired SWR circle. If you continue until the nose goes to the opposite side of the SWR circle, it brings more of the tails into the circle. The resulting SWR curve is a W shape. It won't be 1:1 at any frequency but more of the curve will lie within the chosen SWR circle. 73, Roger On 2/22/2014 11:03 AM, Charlie Cunningham wrote: Well, I agree with all that, Carl. But Carl Braun, was reading dead-flat 1:1 at the transmitter end of his cable. I believe he is done!! The antenna Q is what it is! As for improving his 2:1 VSWR bandwidth he could reduce his radial field and increase his ground losses to improve his 2:1 BW - but I believe that to be self-defeating!! I'm not missing your point - I just don't see what you'd change to improve on a flat line! Carl is well past the point of diminishing returns! The math doesn't lie! Charlie, K4OTV _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments
I suppose I missed that part while doing things around here but this is the only pertinent info I can find from him. Nowhere does it say he has a 1:1 anywhere with the cap in the cabinet. Granted some of the posts are very confusing as to where things are being measured. -- The j11 ohms is the best I can get period. I was able to get j0 when the cap was outside of the steel enclosure with a better bandwidth. Maybe I should throw my $400 enclosure and find a fibergla$$ enclosure. But as others have indicated I should probably just live with it. The swr at my given freq as tuned with the variable cap is 1.3:1 or less...outside the enclosure the system had 1.0:1 swr readings and X=O over what appeared to be a broader bandwidth...even with 42 ohms at the feed point. -- So maybe you can explain where the 1.0 at the transmitter end with the cap in the box came from? Additionally the VSWR may/will change with added radials and ground moisture conditions. Im going out for several hours so no rush on the answers. Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com To: 'Carl' k...@jeremy.mv.com; 'Carl Braun' carl.br...@lairdtech.com; '160' topband@contesting.com Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 11:03 AM Subject: RE: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Well, I agree with all that, Carl. But Carl Braun, was reading dead-flat 1:1 at the transmitter end of his cable. I believe he is done!! The antenna Q is what it is! As for improving his 2:1 VSWR bandwidth he could reduce his radial field and increase his ground losses to improve his 2:1 BW - but I believe that to be self-defeating!! I'm not missing your point - I just don't see what you'd change to improve on a flat line! Carl is well past the point of diminishing returns! The math doesn't lie! Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 10:41 AM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Carl Braun'; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Charlie youre continually missing the point; ignore cable loss period. The only issue is what impedance does the amp see from lets say 1800 to 1900 KHz? AND can the amp load into it without a problem at full power? This is a system issue, not just what is measured at the antenna and needs to be addressed that way. Put all that info into your program and post the results. Saying that a 1.3 VSWR at reasonance at the antenna is sufficient is too simplistic. Compute the VSWR at the amp with whatever length of coax is actually used over the lower 100 KHz with a range of at resonance VSWR's. Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com To: 'Carl' k...@jeremy.mv.com; 'Carl Braun' carl.br...@lairdtech.com; '160' topband@contesting.com Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:57 AM Subject: RE: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Well, Carl the looses in 70' or even 200' of LMR-400 are so low at 1.8 MHz, even at 2.0:1 or 3.0 :1, if he can match it at the transmitter end of the line, it really doesn't matter! Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:46 AM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Carl Braun'; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments That 1.3 is only at ONE frequency Charlie, he is not crystal controlled. What is the 2:1 bandwidth at the amp? Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com To: 'Carl' k...@jeremy.mv.com; 'Carl Braun' carl.br...@lairdtech.com; '160' topband@contesting.com Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:23 AM Subject: RE: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments I don't expect that ANY of those are valid concerns at 1.3:1 VSWR!! -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:14 AM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Carl Braun'; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Im not concerned by what is measured at the matching unit or a miniscule cable loss; just what is transformed back to the amp and its ability to load at full power without arcing, running out of or having too much fixed padder C during QSY's. Contests do not stay just in the narrow CW 50 KHz window and not having to use an external tuner is a big plus. Ive always modified my amps to work with my antennas on 160 and 80/75. Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com To: 'ZR' z...@jeremy.mv.com; 'Carl Braun' carl.br...@lairdtech.com; '160' topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, February
Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments
Wel, I agree with all of that, Roger. I plotted Carl's 45-j11 load on a 50 ohm Smith Chart, and it's right near the origin of the chart on a 1.3:1 VSWR circle. I'd need some more data points at some other frequencies to plot to get a better picture of what's going on, But his VSWR is so low that the losses in 70' of LMR-400 on 160 are completely negligible! As long as he can match it at the transmitter end - no problem! And at one point, he was measuring dead-flat 1:1at the tranmitterend of the cable. His Henry amp should handle that just fine without a tuner! 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Roger D Johnson Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 11:16 AM To: '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments It may not be obvious but often you can get better bandwidth by NOT tuning for 1:1 at the desired frequency! Those familiar with the Smith chart probably already know this. A narrow band antenna will produce a curve between a U and a V on the Smith chart. If you tune for a 1:1 SWR, you bring the nose of the curve to the center of the chart. This often leaves the tails outside the desired SWR circle. If you continue until the nose goes to the opposite side of the SWR circle, it brings more of the tails into the circle. The resulting SWR curve is a W shape. It won't be 1:1 at any frequency but more of the curve will lie within the chosen SWR circle. 73, Roger On 2/22/2014 11:03 AM, Charlie Cunningham wrote: Well, I agree with all that, Carl. But Carl Braun, was reading dead-flat 1:1 at the transmitter end of his cable. I believe he is done!! The antenna Q is what it is! As for improving his 2:1 VSWR bandwidth he could reduce his radial field and increase his ground losses to improve his 2:1 BW - but I believe that to be self-defeating!! I'm not missing your point - I just don't see what you'd change to improve on a flat line! Carl is well past the point of diminishing returns! The math doesn't lie! Charlie, K4OTV _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Not so ood in the contest last night
On 2014-02-22, at 11:45 AM, Herb Schoenbohm wrote: Don't feel bad Don as last night I only worked three stateside stations K3ZM, W8PR WD5R. I must have spent two hours calling W8PR at night but heard me until at my sunrise. I run an Alpha 87A and a quarter wave vertical but all the other stateside stations called just ran their CQ machines and apparently I could not even work Florida station in here 10 over 9 and only 1200 miles away. Even Jeff VY2ZM who has super ears could not even hear a single character of my call. So as the song goes you gotta know when to hold and when to fold. So I decided to thrown the main breaker to the ham shack and save some money on electricity. Herb, KV4FZ Hi Guys, It's comments like yours, Herb, that make me somewhat glad that Mother Nature effectively robbed me of any Topband activities here this year... I detected a decline in conditions for at least 2 years prior to this season, from all accounts, the 2013-14 session has MORE than earned any Rotten Tomato awards hurled its way...! :o) ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Not so ood in the contest last night
I felt conditions to EU were great in Stew and Prestew. There was one really excellent hour to run EU boom-boom-boom in CQ WW in November from LPL. That was a real joy! I felt also 80/40 were lackluster in ARRL DX CW. Usually I could work an endless pool of QRP EU stations on 40M and several QRP EU's on 80M. But nothing like that this year. With 20M open all night, not really all that much of a loss in net score for me! Tim N3QE - Original Message - From: Eddy Swynar [mailto:deswy...@xplornet.ca] Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 11:50 AM To: he...@vitelcom.net he...@vitelcom.net Cc: topband@contesting.com topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Not so ood in the contest last night On 2014-02-22, at 11:45 AM, Herb Schoenbohm wrote: Don't feel bad Don as last night I only worked three stateside stations K3ZM, W8PR WD5R. I must have spent two hours calling W8PR at night but heard me until at my sunrise. I run an Alpha 87A and a quarter wave vertical but all the other stateside stations called just ran their CQ machines and apparently I could not even work Florida station in here 10 over 9 and only 1200 miles away. Even Jeff VY2ZM who has super ears could not even hear a single character of my call. So as the song goes you gotta know when to hold and when to fold. So I decided to thrown the main breaker to the ham shack and save some money on electricity. Herb, KV4FZ Hi Guys, It's comments like yours, Herb, that make me somewhat glad that Mother Nature effectively robbed me of any Topband activities here this year... I detected a decline in conditions for at least 2 years prior to this season, from all accounts, the 2013-14 session has MORE than earned any Rotten Tomato awards hurled its way...! :o) ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Not so ood in the contest last night
The worst part was I did not hear the South Lyon Group who was running W1AW/8 and they are only 10 ish miles away from me. Maybe tonight :-) Don't worry about them ... they've been an alligator on 160 all week. Easily copyable through -60 dBm atmospheric noise here in Florida but not working anything except the strong stations within 500-600 miles. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2/22/2014 8:41 AM, gold...@charter.net wrote: I only made 35 contacts last night from my QTH.I did however get 5 new states and if those contacts use LOTW I will only need 5 more contacts for my WAS on 160m phone. My antennas are an inverted L and big loop so I dont hear real well. But thats my realilty. The worst part was I did not hear the South Lyon Group who was running W1AW/8 and they are only 10 ish miles away from me. Maybe tonight :-) I am following the converstations on the receive loops and hopefully will have time and money to invest in one for a summer project and also figure out how to get my inverted L higher before my flat section. Have fun everyone I know I do. ~73 Don KD8NNU FH#4107 -.- -.. ---.. –. –. ..- _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Control cable black conductors
Nothing said about concentration. We eat acids all the time (e.g., coffee, citric fruits, vinegar) and your stomach already has acid (HCl). 73, Larry W6NWS -Original Message- From: Charlie Cunningham Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:25 AM To: 'Larry' ; topband@contesting.com Subject: RE: Topband: Control cable black conductors And people DRINK this stuff!!?? :) -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Larry Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:17 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Control cable black conductors Phosphoric acid is still listed. 73, Larry W6NWS -Original Message- From: Kenneth Grimm Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 7:51 AM To: Tom W8JI Cc: Dave G4GED ; topband Subject: Re: Topband: Control cable black conductors Is it phosphoric acid that gives Coca Cola its peculiar cleaning ability? I no longer can imbibe cola drinks due to a very annoying allergy, so I can't check a label to see if it is listed. I do know that Coke will clean oil deposited on your windshield when commercial windshield washing liquids just cause it to smear...so it has something in it that that may work quite well, and without turning your hands red! 73, Ken - K4XL On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 7:38 AM, Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com wrote: All the other 4 conductors are bright clean copper when stripped. Could anyone tell me why some insulated copper conductors turn black in this way and whether there's a better way of cleaning it off. Water inside the insulation plus sulfur and/or irons that formed copper sulfide or covellite. I've been successful using phosphoric acid. It is sold as a clear liquid wire or mag wheel cleaner around here. You'll know it by how red and painful it turns your hands. _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband -- Ken - K4XL BoatAnchor Manual Archive BAMA - http://bama.edebris.com Show me a politician who is poor, and I'll show you a poor politician. - Carlos Hank González _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments
The measurements are being taken, and have been taken, at the same point since the beginning of the antenna experiment. The ONLY difference is that the variable cap is now mounted inside the steel panel as described in my previous posts, instead of outside the panel, as described in previous posts. Same length of wire each scenario. I believe Tom W8JI called it when he stated that a change was likely when the cap is enclosed in a metallic enclosure vs sitting on a 5 gal plastic jug. The Henry amp seems to be OK with a little reactance so I'm going to concentrate on my gamma cage and radial system while waiting for RF Parts to deliver some necessary connectors. Once I get the PL259s installed I can replace my temp RG 58 jumper with the good stuff and then hit it with the Henry. Ive kept the power below 500w during the contest so as not to stress the small coaxial cable. 73 Carl Sent from my iPhone On Feb 22, 2014, at 8:42 AM, Carl k...@jeremy.mv.com wrote: I suppose I missed that part while doing things around here but this is the only pertinent info I can find from him. Nowhere does it say he has a 1:1 anywhere with the cap in the cabinet. Granted some of the posts are very confusing as to where things are being measured. -- The j11 ohms is the best I can get period. I was able to get j0 when the cap was outside of the steel enclosure with a better bandwidth. Maybe I should throw my $400 enclosure and find a fibergla$$ enclosure. But as others have indicated I should probably just live with it. The swr at my given freq as tuned with the variable cap is 1.3:1 or less...outside the enclosure the system had 1.0:1 swr readings and X=O over what appeared to be a broader bandwidth...even with 42 ohms at the feed point. -- So maybe you can explain where the 1.0 at the transmitter end with the cap in the box came from? Additionally the VSWR may/will change with added radials and ground moisture conditions. Im going out for several hours so no rush on the answers. Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com To: 'Carl' k...@jeremy.mv.com; 'Carl Braun' carl.br...@lairdtech.com; '160' topband@contesting.com Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 11:03 AM Subject: RE: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Well, I agree with all that, Carl. But Carl Braun, was reading dead-flat 1:1 at the transmitter end of his cable. I believe he is done!! The antenna Q is what it is! As for improving his 2:1 VSWR bandwidth he could reduce his radial field and increase his ground losses to improve his 2:1 BW - but I believe that to be self-defeating!! I'm not missing your point - I just don't see what you'd change to improve on a flat line! Carl is well past the point of diminishing returns! The math doesn't lie! Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 10:41 AM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Carl Braun'; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Charlie youre continually missing the point; ignore cable loss period. The only issue is what impedance does the amp see from lets say 1800 to 1900 KHz? AND can the amp load into it without a problem at full power? This is a system issue, not just what is measured at the antenna and needs to be addressed that way. Put all that info into your program and post the results. Saying that a 1.3 VSWR at reasonance at the antenna is sufficient is too simplistic. Compute the VSWR at the amp with whatever length of coax is actually used over the lower 100 KHz with a range of at resonance VSWR's. Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com To: 'Carl' k...@jeremy.mv.com; 'Carl Braun' carl.br...@lairdtech.com; '160' topband@contesting.com Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:57 AM Subject: RE: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Well, Carl the looses in 70' or even 200' of LMR-400 are so low at 1.8 MHz, even at 2.0:1 or 3.0 :1, if he can match it at the transmitter end of the line, it really doesn't matter! Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:46 AM To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Carl Braun'; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments That 1.3 is only at ONE frequency Charlie, he is not crystal controlled. What is the 2:1 bandwidth at the amp? Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com To: 'Carl' k...@jeremy.mv.com; 'Carl Braun' carl.br...@lairdtech.com; '160'
Re: Topband: Control cable black conductors
Moisture has gotten to the copper. I've heard white vinegar may work. Its cheap...give it a try Guys, if you use the vinegar or other cleaners, but sure to clean if off with water after it's done it's job. Also, don't let it wick up into the insulation. Spreading the strands and wiping each with a cotton swab or rag will help prevent that. Charlie, N0TT Carl AG6X -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Andy Ikin Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 3:10 AM To: Dave G4GED; Topband Reflector Subject: Re: Topband: Control cable black conductors Dave G4GED Wrote on Feb. 22nd. Hi and thanks for reading. I'm trying to splice a damaged (rodents) RX ant control cable. It has 7 insulated, stranded copper conductors all inside a PVC jacket. Problem is, when stripped of their insulation, 3 (black, brown and green), of the copper conductors have become coated in a black film? So to effect jointing and soldering, require cleaning. I've tried IPA 170 and several contact cleaners but none remove it. So far, only Emery Cloth will do the job but it's very difficult to clean each strand without breaking some and therefore weakening the joint. All the other 4 conductors are bright clean copper when stripped. Could anyone tell me why some insulated copper conductors turn black in this way and whether there's a better way of cleaning it off. Dave, maybe you could try dilute sulphuric acid or lime scale remover VIAKAL. The black residue on the copper is probably copper oxide. If you end up replacing the cable run then use tined copper conductors. 73 Andrew G8LUG _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: OX/OZ1LXJ QSL
*Yes; received his QSL promptly.* *73,* *Mark -- WA9ETW* Message: 1 Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 15:59:53 -0600 From: Udo A. Heinze uahei...@mmenterprisesllc.com To: topband@contesting.com topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: OX/OZ1LXJ QSL Message-ID: 9FC85D493D10324CBE3158245AAE55A307C283DB18@KIT.MMELLC.local Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Has anybody received a QSL for OZ1LXJ's operation from Greenland during Sep-Oct, 2013? He made 505 top band contacts. Thanks Udo NI0G _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Not so good in the contest last night
I may have worked only 10 SP last night. When it is a struggle to work WY,UT,MT and WA from ID you know something is not right. I did manage one NY, IN, OH, IA, and ND but could not even hear the ID station that worked the MT station just before me. I complement the NY station [ note I am not using calls because the entry period is not over ] who worked hard to get me into his log. I was copying him better than he was copying me. Like Herb, I tried diligently to work W8RA with no success. He may have had some noise problems because the WX from mid-US to the East Coast was very unsettled with lots of lightning I think. Tod, K0TO ID _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Not so good in the contest last night
Tod I think you hit my real problem yesterday. All the states that I was hoping to contact out west were doing SP just like me. :-) Maybe I should try and sit still and just run one frq for once in my life. ~73 Don KD8NNU FH#4107 -.- -.. ---.. –. –. ..- On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 2:31 PM, Tod Olson wrote: I may have worked only 10 SP last night. When it is a struggle to work WY,UT,MT and WA from ID you know something is not right. I did manage one NY, IN, OH, IA, and ND but could not even hear the ID station that worked the MT station just before me. I complement the NY station [ note I am not using calls because the entry period is not over ] who worked hard to get me into his log. I was copying him better than he was copying me. Like Herb, I tried diligently to work W8RA with no success. He may have had some noise problems because the WX from mid-US to the East Coast was very unsettled with lots of lightning I think. Tod, K0TO ID _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Not so good in the contest last night
This may go down as my worst score for this contest. I never heard anyone loud enough to call and so far zero Q's. Last week we worked east coast in the ARRL so it's just poor conditions. I guess the folks not in the contest that we all work for a good score tune around and need to hear loud easy to work stations calling CQ. This is probably a downward spiral. They quit, so we quit calling. But it's early yet, another night cycle at 0600z starts for me. SSB is not the best choice for contesting on topband even on a good night. 73 Rich KL7RA _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Not so ood in the contest last night
As usual in this contest, I turned on the Alpha 9500 and ran as an alligator. I had swarms of stations calling, but many were too weak to copy, I could just tell someone was in there. Other times, there were too many to separate. There were a lot of unfamiliar calls last night. These stations must not operate CW. Only worked a few east coast stations in the hour I was on. I have a prior commitment tonite and won't be able to get on until after 0700Z or so. I was hoping to get Vermont (last state needed on phone) but the condx don't look good. Rick N6RK _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Not so good in the contest last night
Rich, On 2/22/14, 3:13 PM, KL7RA wrote: This may go down as my worst score for this contest. I never heard anyone loud enough to call and so far zero Q's. Last week we worked east coast in the ARRL so it's just poor conditions. I guess the folks not in the contest that we all work for a good score tune around and need to hear loud easy to work stations calling CQ. This is probably a downward spiral. They quit, so we quit calling. But it's early yet, another night cycle at 0600z starts for me. SSB is not the best choice for contesting on topband even on a good night. I agree about the condition of the bands. I thought I would pick up Colorado for 160M WAS. I did not find anyone from CO., let alone much DX. CME's have taken their toll. Arggh! Stephen not the physicist HawkinS de NG0G -- Stephen Hawkins NG0G n...@mchsi.com 73 49 111 01001001 _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Low band noise
Hi Bruce Very happy to answer questions that top band DXers may have about our experience at ZL6QH. Please note that not all wind farm installations are noisy - it depends on the type of turbine technology that is deployed. 73, Brian VK3MI ZL1AZE -Original Message- From: Bruce Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 12:45 PM To: Brian Miller ; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Low band noise Hi Brian, Thank you for your input and sorry to find that the windmill farm noise caused ZL6QH to close down. It will become evident that each country will need enforce RF noise limits on windmills, or start rule making if none exist. In the USA complaints to the ARRL should bring guidance in this matter. Some of the low band reflector DXers may wish to ask questions, if that is all right with you. Thanks again, 73 Bruce-K1FZ - Original Message - From: Brian Miller brianmil...@xtra.co.nz To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 5:46 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Low band noise Hi Bruce et al Radiated noise from a new wind farm eventually forced us to close down and exit the ZL6QH contest station. A detailed report on the noise levels is available at http://www.zl6qh.com/rf-noise-measurements-quartz-hill-2009-v3.pdf . The ZL6QH wind farm used Siemens 2.3 MW variable speed turbines. We believe the noise was generated by the water cooled electronic power converter technology that was used to convert the variable output of each turbine to the fixed voltage and frequency of the national grid. Our observations suggested that an HF contest station would have be located at least several km from the wind farm to reduce the interference to an acceptable level on the low frequency bands. 73 Brian VK3MI ZL1AZE -- _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Low band noise
Hi Brian, Thank You, appreciate your information and help. There is one message on the reflector now. Will forward, but you may have found it already. 73, All the best, Bruce-K1FZ - Original Message - From: Brian Miller brianmil...@xtra.co.nz To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 5:50 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Low band noise Hi Bruce Very happy to answer questions that top band DXers may have about our experience at ZL6QH. Please note that not all wind farm installations are noisy - it depends on the type of turbine technology that is deployed. 73, Brian VK3MI ZL1AZE -Original Message- From: Bruce Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 12:45 PM To: Brian Miller ; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Low band noise Hi Brian, Thank you for your input and sorry to find that the windmill farm noise caused ZL6QH to close down. It will become evident that each country will need enforce RF noise limits on windmills, or start rule making if none exist. In the USA complaints to the ARRL should bring guidance in this matter. Some of the low band reflector DXers may wish to ask questions, if that is all right with you. Thanks again, 73 Bruce-K1FZ - Original Message - From: Brian Miller brianmil...@xtra.co.nz To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 5:46 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Low band noise Hi Bruce et al Radiated noise from a new wind farm eventually forced us to close down and exit the ZL6QH contest station. A detailed report on the noise levels is available at http://www.zl6qh.com/rf-noise-measurements-quartz-hill-2009-v3.pdf . The ZL6QH wind farm used Siemens 2.3 MW variable speed turbines. We believe the noise was generated by the water cooled electronic power converter technology that was used to convert the variable output of each turbine to the fixed voltage and frequency of the national grid. Our observations suggested that an HF contest station would have be located at least several km from the wind farm to reduce the interference to an acceptable level on the low frequency bands. 73 Brian VK3MI ZL1AZE -- _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Not so good in the contest last night
Things are terrible as I can get about one Q per hour. Some years ago I did WAS in 3.5 hours on 160. Just not possible this weekend to even get to Florida. Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ On 2/22/2014 6:01 PM, Hawkins wrote: Rich, On 2/22/14, 3:13 PM, KL7RA wrote: This may go down as my worst score for this contest. I never heard anyone loud enough to call and so far zero Q's. Last week we worked east coast in the ARRL so it's just poor conditions. I guess the folks not in the contest that we all work for a good score tune around and need to hear loud easy to work stations calling CQ. This is probably a downward spiral. They quit, so we quit calling. But it's early yet, another night cycle at 0600z starts for me. SSB is not the best choice for contesting on topband even on a good night. I agree about the condition of the bands. I thought I would pick up Colorado for 160M WAS. I did not find anyone from CO., let alone much DX. CME's have taken their toll. Arggh! Stephen not the physicist HawkinS de NG0G _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments
Carl and Topbanders Here are the latest details and I will try and be as thorough as possible. Good news! I built my gamma cage and the antenna now performs MUCH better. Here's where I stand: 90' Tri Ex Skyneedle shunt fed with the gamma arm at 67' and a three wire gamma cage with 10 separation between wires. My tower is grounded at the base via three 1 copper strap 1/8th inch thick and tied to a 1 1/2 copper pipe radial ring that measures 4' x 8'. The radial ring is also bonded to three 8' ground rods via 1 copper strap. Currently I have approx 30 ground radials screwed to the radial ring with copper clad stainless screws and then painted with copper paste. Some of the radials are formed from heavy control cable (similar to rotor cable) that are fanned out at the radial ring...converge into the Cable jacket, cross the 10' blacktop driveway and then emerge from the jacket and fan out across the property. The radials vary from 30' long to 100' long with three of them tying directly into the radial field of my 40m phased array. The three-wire gamma cage is made of 14ga stranded wire and converges into a cone with a single brass bolt holding all three ring lugs together 1.5' off of the ground at the base. An additional 14ga wire is also connected to the brass bolt and bolts to a porcelain feed through insulator that brings the feed into the metallic (STEEL) panel. A 14ga wire then bolts to the other end of the feed thru insulator and taps onto the input of the Cardwell air variable capacitor. The output of the capacitor connects to a SO 239 connector that is mounted to a 2 copper strap that travels down the enclosure where two brass bolts bolt the strap to the bottom of the panel. Under the panel, where the brass bolts emerge from the panel, two 2 copper straps connect to the brass bolts and then travel to the copper radial ring where they are terminated. Before the gamma cage I used a single 14ga wire dropped down from the gamma arm where it connected to the variable cap that was mounted outside my steel enclosure and sat on a plastic 5 gal pail. The gamma wire connected to the variable cap and then it was wired to the same standoff insulator I mentioned above and into an empty steel panel where I had the same SO 239 connector mounted to the copper strap and then to my grounding system. This config netted me 41 + j0 ohms. I was pretty satisfied with this scenario so I mounted my variable cap on a 3/4 thick piece of Plexiglas to the backplane via Teflon bolts inside the steel enclosure. When I did this I saw my analyzer jump to 45 -j11 ohms. No matter how much tweaking was done the lowest X on the analyzer was 11. Figuring I could live with that after making 24 contacts this morning I decided to move ahead with my gamma cage. When I completed the cage per the info above I left my analyzer set on the previous frequency setting of 1825 and saw the resistance jump and the X go out of site. Adjusting my variable cap (from approx 140 pf to 420 pf) rewarded me with a 42 + j0 reading. Inside the shack on the 1000D and the BIRD I see 1.1:1 Vswr at 1.800 MHz, FLAT 1.0:1 from 1.810 to 1.860 and 1.5:1 at 1.895 MHz. I'm eager to get back on the air tonight and tomorrow morning to see how it plays 73 Carl AG6X -Original Message- From: Carl [mailto:k...@jeremy.mv.com] Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 1:22 PM To: Carl Braun Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments The measurements are being taken, and have been taken, at the same point since the beginning of the antenna experiment. ** How about refreshing my merory about those details Carl? Frequency also. I wasnt involved in the early parts and deleted them already. The ONLY difference is that the variable cap is now mounted inside the steel panel as described in my previous posts, instead of outside the panel, as described in previous posts. Same length of wire each scenario. I believe Tom W8JI called it when he stated that a change was likely when the cap is enclosed in a metallic enclosure vs sitting on a 5 gal plastic jug. ** No discussion needed there, thats been known for 100 years. It would also help to be more specific when presenting details, what does metallic really mean? The Henry amp seems to be OK with a little reactance so I'm going to concentrate on my gamma cage and radial system while waiting for RF Parts to deliver some necessary connectors. Once I get the PL259s installed I can replace my temp RG 58 jumper with the good stuff and then hit it with the Henry. I've kept the power below 500w during the contest so as not to stress the small coaxial cable. ** Good move. Carl KM1H 73 Carl Sent from my iPhone On Feb 22, 2014, at 8:42 AM, Carl k...@jeremy.mv.com wrote: I suppose I missed that part while doing things around here but this is the only
Re: Topband: Not so good in the contest last night
And here’s why…http://www.alaskadispatch.com/video/video-northern-lights-dance-above-fairbanks-alaska Was SP from 0700-1000. Lots of S’ing, no P’ing while listening to my TS-590 in scan mode. Maybe tonight. I have a fresh Voodoo chicken to swing in the shack. 73, Gary NL7Y _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - FB!
Wow!! Sounds like you r gamma cage worked out really well, Carl!! The fact that you are running so much more series C now says that you removed a lot of inductive reactance from your gamma section. Therefore the Q has dropped significantly, I expect. Your VSWR bandwidth is great! I would think that even Carl, KM1H would agree - perhaps grudgingly! It seems that all you hard work has really paid off!! Now enjoy your antenna and finish up your radial work and get to work on the receiving loops! I expect that you are likely to have a really good transmitting antenna for Topband!! Congrats! Enjoy! 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl Braun Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 7:16 PM To: Carl; '160' Cc: w...@att.net; ad...@arrl.net Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Carl and Topbanders Here are the latest details and I will try and be as thorough as possible. Good news! I built my gamma cage and the antenna now performs MUCH better. Here's where I stand: 90' Tri Ex Skyneedle shunt fed with the gamma arm at 67' and a three wire gamma cage with 10 separation between wires. My tower is grounded at the base via three 1 copper strap 1/8th inch thick and tied to a 1 1/2 copper pipe radial ring that measures 4' x 8'. The radial ring is also bonded to three 8' ground rods via 1 copper strap. Currently I have approx 30 ground radials screwed to the radial ring with copper clad stainless screws and then painted with copper paste. Some of the radials are formed from heavy control cable (similar to rotor cable) that are fanned out at the radial ring...converge into the Cable jacket, cross the 10' blacktop driveway and then emerge from the jacket and fan out across the property. The radials vary from 30' long to 100' long with three of them tying directly into the radial field of my 40m phased array. The three-wire gamma cage is made of 14ga stranded wire and converges into a cone with a single brass bolt holding all three ring lugs together 1.5' off of the ground at the base. An additional 14ga wire is also connected to the brass bolt and bolts to a porcelain feed through insulator that brings the feed into the metallic (STEEL) panel. A 14ga wire then bolts to the other end of the feed thru insulator and taps onto the input of the Cardwell air variable capacitor. The output of the capacitor connects to a SO 239 connector that is mounted to a 2 copper strap that travels down the enclosure where two brass bolts bolt the strap to the bottom of the panel. Under the panel, where the brass bolts emerge from the panel, two 2 copper straps connect to the brass bolts and then travel to the copper radial ring where they are terminated. Before the gamma cage I used a single 14ga wire dropped down from the gamma arm where it connected to the variable cap that was mounted outside my steel enclosure and sat on a plastic 5 gal pail. The gamma wire connected to the variable cap and then it was wired to the same standoff insulator I mentioned above and into an empty steel panel where I had the same SO 239 connector mounted to the copper strap and then to my grounding system. This config netted me 41 + j0 ohms. I was pretty satisfied with this scenario so I mounted my variable cap on a 3/4 thick piece of Plexiglas to the backplane via Teflon bolts inside the steel enclosure. When I did this I saw my analyzer jump to 45 -j11 ohms. No matter how much tweaking was done the lowest X on the analyzer was 11. Figuring I could live with that after making 24 contacts this morning I decided to move ahead with my gamma cage. When I completed the cage per the info above I left my analyzer set on the previous frequency setting of 1825 and saw the resistance jump and the X go out of site. Adjusting my variable cap (from approx 140 pf to 420 pf) rewarded me with a 42 + j0 reading. Inside the shack on the 1000D and the BIRD I see 1.1:1 Vswr at 1.800 MHz, FLAT 1.0:1 from 1.810 to 1.860 and 1.5:1 at 1.895 MHz. I'm eager to get back on the air tonight and tomorrow morning to see how it plays 73 Carl AG6X -Original Message- From: Carl [mailto:k...@jeremy.mv.com] Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 1:22 PM To: Carl Braun Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments The measurements are being taken, and have been taken, at the same point since the beginning of the antenna experiment. ** How about refreshing my merory about those details Carl? Frequency also. I wasnt involved in the early parts and deleted them already. The ONLY difference is that the variable cap is now mounted inside the steel panel as described in my previous posts, instead of outside the panel, as described in previous posts. Same length of wire each scenario. I believe Tom W8JI called it when he stated that a change was likely when
Re: Topband: OX/OZ1LXJ QSL
*Oooops -- just noticed my card confirms a 2012 QSO. SRI for the misinformation.* *Mark -- WA9ETW* On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 1:02 PM, lmlangenfeld tds.net lmlangenf...@tds.netwrote: *Yes; received his QSL promptly.* *73,* *Mark -- WA9ETW* Message: 1 Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 15:59:53 -0600 From: Udo A. Heinze uahei...@mmenterprisesllc.com To: topband@contesting.com topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: OX/OZ1LXJ QSL Message-ID: 9FC85D493D10324CBE3158245AAE55A307C283DB18@KIT.MMELLC.local Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Has anybody received a QSL for OZ1LXJ's operation from Greenland during Sep-Oct, 2013? He made 505 top band contacts. Thanks Udo NI0G _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments
On 2/22/2014 4:15 PM, Carl Braun wrote: Inside the shack on the 1000D and the BIRD I see 1.1:1 Vswr at 1.800 MHz, FLAT 1.0:1 from 1.810 to 1.860 and 1.5:1 at 1.895 MHz. I'm eager to get back on the air tonight and tomorrow morning to see how it plays I'm sure it will play well in terms of keeping your transmitter happy but the relatively large bandwidth you are measuring is indicative of substantial loss in the system somewhere. This would be a large bandwidth even if you did not have the bandwidth narrowing effects of a shunt feed. Does your 1000D SWR meter agree with your Bird meter? I am somewhat skeptical of the SWR meter on my 1000D. I suspect it reads on the low side. Either that or my Alpha 9500 reads on the high side. 73 Carl AG6X Rick N6RK _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments
I was pretty satisfied with this scenario so I mounted my variable cap on a 3/4 thick piece of Plexiglas to the backplane via Teflon bolts inside the steel enclosure. When I did this I saw my analyzer jump to 45 -j11 ohms. No matter how much tweaking was done the lowest X on the analyzer was 11. Figuring I could live with that after making 24 contacts this morning I decided to move ahead with my gamma cage. When I completed the cage per the info above I left my analyzer set on the previous frequency setting of 1825 and saw the resistance jump and the X go out of site. Adjusting my variable cap (from approx 140 pf to 420 pf) rewarded me with a 42 + j0 reading. Inside the shack on the 1000D and the BIRD I see 1.1:1 Vswr at 1.800 MHz, FLAT 1.0:1 from 1.810 to 1.860 and 1.5:1 at 1.895 MHz. I would expect you to have that bandwidth. It does NOT indicate loss. Your shunt system now has an operating Q of around 4, because you now have 200 ohms of series C. With a thick radiator and a large yagi on top, and so much capacitance, you are exactly on target. While I don't fully trust the FT1000 meter, no matter what, never automatically assume modest bandwidth like you have indicates loss. It doesn't. There are a whole lot of things that go into bandwidth beside loss! 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments
Exactly! All true and Tom is right on point! You have removed a lot of series reactance with that gamma cage, Carl -as indicated by the required tuning C changing.from 160 pF ot over 400 pF. OF COURSE the Q was reduced as the series reactance was reduced and the real part stayed fairly constant. That does not imply increased or excessive loss! Regards Charlie -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:07 PM To: Carl Braun; '160' Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments I was pretty satisfied with this scenario so I mounted my variable cap on a 3/4 thick piece of Plexiglas to the backplane via Teflon bolts inside the steel enclosure. When I did this I saw my analyzer jump to 45 -j11 ohms. No matter how much tweaking was done the lowest X on the analyzer was 11. Figuring I could live with that after making 24 contacts this morning I decided to move ahead with my gamma cage. When I completed the cage per the info above I left my analyzer set on the previous frequency setting of 1825 and saw the resistance jump and the X go out of site. Adjusting my variable cap (from approx 140 pf to 420 pf) rewarded me with a 42 + j0 reading. Inside the shack on the 1000D and the BIRD I see 1.1:1 Vswr at 1.800 MHz, FLAT 1.0:1 from 1.810 to 1.860 and 1.5:1 at 1.895 MHz. I would expect you to have that bandwidth. It does NOT indicate loss. Your shunt system now has an operating Q of around 4, because you now have 200 ohms of series C. With a thick radiator and a large yagi on top, and so much capacitance, you are exactly on target. While I don't fully trust the FT1000 meter, no matter what, never automatically assume modest bandwidth like you have indicates loss. It doesn't. There are a whole lot of things that go into bandwidth beside loss! 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments
That is the type of report I really like to hear Carl. All that work has paid off in spades. As you increase the number of radials the VSWR bandwidth might decrease along with the R which is normal as the ground resistance decreases. Since it appears to work so well you might just leave it alone for awhile, operate and get a feel of how your signal compares with others. With the top loading Id say the tower is close to being a 1/4 wave and the perfect world impedance about 35-36 Ohms with the remainder as ground resistance. That will result in very decent efficiency. That cage you connected this morning sure changed the numbers from the single wire I was responding to. OK on the steel panel. The usual rule of thumb there is to space coils and variables at least their width away. There were some amps and tuners on the market that would have radically different tuning, and more power out in the amplifier examples, with the cover removed. Take a bow, Im impressed!! Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Carl Braun carl.br...@lairdtech.com To: Carl k...@jeremy.mv.com; '160' topband@contesting.com Cc: ad...@arrl.net; w...@att.net Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 7:15 PM Subject: RE: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Carl and Topbanders Here are the latest details and I will try and be as thorough as possible. Good news! I built my gamma cage and the antenna now performs MUCH better. Here's where I stand: 90' Tri Ex Skyneedle shunt fed with the gamma arm at 67' and a three wire gamma cage with 10 separation between wires. My tower is grounded at the base via three 1 copper strap 1/8th inch thick and tied to a 1 1/2 copper pipe radial ring that measures 4' x 8'. The radial ring is also bonded to three 8' ground rods via 1 copper strap. Currently I have approx 30 ground radials screwed to the radial ring with copper clad stainless screws and then painted with copper paste. Some of the radials are formed from heavy control cable (similar to rotor cable) that are fanned out at the radial ring...converge into the Cable jacket, cross the 10' blacktop driveway and then emerge from the jacket and fan out across the property. The radials vary from 30' long to 100' long with three of them tying directly into the radial field of my 40m phased array. The three-wire gamma cage is made of 14ga stranded wire and converges into a cone with a single brass bolt holding all three ring lugs together 1.5' off of the ground at the base. An additional 14ga wire is also connected to the brass bolt and bolts to a porcelain feed through insulator that brings the feed into the metallic (STEEL) panel. A 14ga wire then bolts to the other end of the feed thru insulator and taps onto the input of the Cardwell air variable capacitor. The output of the capacitor connects to a SO 239 connector that is mounted to a 2 copper strap that travels down the enclosure where two brass bolts bolt the strap to the bottom of the panel. Under the panel, where the brass bolts emerge from the panel, two 2 copper straps connect to the brass bolts and then travel to the copper radial ring where they are terminated. Before the gamma cage I used a single 14ga wire dropped down from the gamma arm where it connected to the variable cap that was mounted outside my steel enclosure and sat on a plastic 5 gal pail. The gamma wire connected to the variable cap and then it was wired to the same standoff insulator I mentioned above and into an empty steel panel where I had the same SO 239 connector mounted to the copper strap and then to my grounding system. This config netted me 41 + j0 ohms. I was pretty satisfied with this scenario so I mounted my variable cap on a 3/4 thick piece of Plexiglas to the backplane via Teflon bolts inside the steel enclosure. When I did this I saw my analyzer jump to 45 -j11 ohms. No matter how much tweaking was done the lowest X on the analyzer was 11. Figuring I could live with that after making 24 contacts this morning I decided to move ahead with my gamma cage. When I completed the cage per the info above I left my analyzer set on the previous frequency setting of 1825 and saw the resistance jump and the X go out of site. Adjusting my variable cap (from approx 140 pf to 420 pf) rewarded me with a 42 + j0 reading. Inside the shack on the 1000D and the BIRD I see 1.1:1 Vswr at 1.800 MHz, FLAT 1.0:1 from 1.810 to 1.860 and 1.5:1 at 1.895 MHz. I'm eager to get back on the air tonight and tomorrow morning to see how it plays 73 Carl AG6X -Original Message- From: Carl [mailto:k...@jeremy.mv.com] Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 1:22 PM To: Carl Braun Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments The measurements are being taken, and have been taken, at the same point since the beginning of the antenna experiment.
Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments
I'm impressed, too! I believe Carl has it whipped!! Should be a really good transmit antenna for Topband!!b Changing to that multi-wire gamma cage really eliminated a lot of series reactance and lowered the Q of the matching section and antenna combination! Good stuff! 73, Charlie,K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 10:08 PM To: Carl Braun; '160' Cc: w...@att.net; ad...@arrl.net Subject: Re: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments That is the type of report I really like to hear Carl. All that work has paid off in spades. As you increase the number of radials the VSWR bandwidth might decrease along with the R which is normal as the ground resistance decreases. Since it appears to work so well you might just leave it alone for awhile, operate and get a feel of how your signal compares with others. With the top loading Id say the tower is close to being a 1/4 wave and the perfect world impedance about 35-36 Ohms with the remainder as ground resistance. That will result in very decent efficiency. That cage you connected this morning sure changed the numbers from the single wire I was responding to. OK on the steel panel. The usual rule of thumb there is to space coils and variables at least their width away. There were some amps and tuners on the market that would have radically different tuning, and more power out in the amplifier examples, with the cover removed. Take a bow, Im impressed!! Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Carl Braun carl.br...@lairdtech.com To: Carl k...@jeremy.mv.com; '160' topband@contesting.com Cc: ad...@arrl.net; w...@att.net Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 7:15 PM Subject: RE: Topband: Shunt feeding the Skyneedle - new developments Carl and Topbanders Here are the latest details and I will try and be as thorough as possible. Good news! I built my gamma cage and the antenna now performs MUCH better. Here's where I stand: 90' Tri Ex Skyneedle shunt fed with the gamma arm at 67' and a three wire gamma cage with 10 separation between wires. My tower is grounded at the base via three 1 copper strap 1/8th inch thick and tied to a 1 1/2 copper pipe radial ring that measures 4' x 8'. The radial ring is also bonded to three 8' ground rods via 1 copper strap. Currently I have approx 30 ground radials screwed to the radial ring with copper clad stainless screws and then painted with copper paste. Some of the radials are formed from heavy control cable (similar to rotor cable) that are fanned out at the radial ring...converge into the Cable jacket, cross the 10' blacktop driveway and then emerge from the jacket and fan out across the property. The radials vary from 30' long to 100' long with three of them tying directly into the radial field of my 40m phased array. The three-wire gamma cage is made of 14ga stranded wire and converges into a cone with a single brass bolt holding all three ring lugs together 1.5' off of the ground at the base. An additional 14ga wire is also connected to the brass bolt and bolts to a porcelain feed through insulator that brings the feed into the metallic (STEEL) panel. A 14ga wire then bolts to the other end of the feed thru insulator and taps onto the input of the Cardwell air variable capacitor. The output of the capacitor connects to a SO 239 connector that is mounted to a 2 copper strap that travels down the enclosure where two brass bolts bolt the strap to the bottom of the panel. Under the panel, where the brass bolts emerge from the panel, two 2 copper straps connect to the brass bolts and then travel to the copper radial ring where they are terminated. Before the gamma cage I used a single 14ga wire dropped down from the gamma arm where it connected to the variable cap that was mounted outside my steel enclosure and sat on a plastic 5 gal pail. The gamma wire connected to the variable cap and then it was wired to the same standoff insulator I mentioned above and into an empty steel panel where I had the same SO 239 connector mounted to the copper strap and then to my grounding system. This config netted me 41 + j0 ohms. I was pretty satisfied with this scenario so I mounted my variable cap on a 3/4 thick piece of Plexiglas to the backplane via Teflon bolts inside the steel enclosure. When I did this I saw my analyzer jump to 45 -j11 ohms. No matter how much tweaking was done the lowest X on the analyzer was 11. Figuring I could live with that after making 24 contacts this morning I decided to move ahead with my gamma cage. When I completed the cage per the info above I left my analyzer set on the previous frequency setting of 1825 and saw the resistance jump and the X go out of site. Adjusting my variable cap (from approx 140 pf to 420 pf) rewarded me with a 42 + j0 reading. Inside the shack on the 1000D and the BIRD I see 1.1:1 Vswr at 1.800 MHz, FLAT
